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A Practical Guide To Year-Round Home Gardening In Maryland · Momtalk Maryland

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey friends, and welcome to Mom Talk Maryland.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Claire Duarte, founder of the Columbia Mom.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: And this is your spot for real conversations, local love, and a whole lot of community.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you're folding laundry, running errands, or hiding in your car for some peace and quiet, let's dive in.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, how are you, Roxana?
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, thank you.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad to have you here.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so glad to connect with you.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, my fellow MICers, or if anyone doesn't that isn't familiar with the MIC, is the Maryland Innovation Center, um, which is a great, you know, place for local businesses that are getting started.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: What no matter what kind of level of getting started, that means it's just a great um resource, you know, um, for really any stage of business.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: But that's like one of the reasons that we connected.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so glad to have recently gotten to know you and your business.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: And frankly, there's nobody out there that I know that is doing anything remotely like what you're doing, which I think is so cool, which is why I'm so glad that we could connect.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so, anyways, I have Roxana, um, you are the Garden Doula.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us more about yourself, tell us about your business and frankly your origin story and how you got started, because that's something that I kind of nerd out over.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, awesome.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate the introduction.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, so Garden Doula is a permaculture design and education company.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, permaculture, I think, is the key word here.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, permaculture essentially is the science and the art and really a philosophy of how we build relationships with the land using an indigenous innovation.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it's about building systems that over time regenerate the earth.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is a really important um note that's specific because a lot of times um when people think about like gardeners or landscaping company companies, it doesn't really like fall into this realm of like we really want to regenerate the land, we want to build habitats, we want to grow food, we want to build gardens that really work with communities.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: And um, the way I got started um is well, I started gardening in college.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was was kind of a nerd instead of partying, I just wanted to garden instead.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you were doing the important things, you were doing the very important things, but I would have parties sometimes and I would show you were having plant parties, let's put it that way.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: I would have parties, and then when people were drunk, I would show my tomatoes and they'd be like, Oh, look at you in your tomatoes.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, I love that.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: You were you were very sneakily trying to educate, you know, the the uh slightly vulnerable.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: I love um but yes, but as soon as I at the time I, you know, I just gardening was just a hobby, it was something I wanted to do for fun, and um, I wanted to become a a midwife.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so after college, I became a birth doula and I worked in um birthing centers, and I witnessed a lot of beautiful babies get born, and it was a beautiful experience.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: I loved it.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but somewhere along the way, I I took another curve and I had my own babies, and I decided that I I didn't want to live in a profession that would take so much of my time because I I wanted to deliver babies at home.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: I had my babies at home.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's just a whole different lifestyle.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like you basically just have to like work your job, and I don't I didn't feel like I can do that.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I I just kept gardening over the years and during the pandemic, I I really decided that I wanted to become a professional garden one way or another.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was, I mean, a lot of people wanted to garden, right?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: But at that point, yeah, that's that's very true.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: That was the thing.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of the clients that I have, which is interesting, are people that like started their gardens around the pandemic and couldn't get them to succeed, and now like they're really looking for um like real answers.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I became a certified permaculture designer, and I started working at um a food forest in Bowie, which is called Forested, and managing their vegetable gardens.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I managed vegetable gardens at um Howard Community College, and it was a very beautiful experience, but I found that there was a lot of people coming in with the same problems.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: They they go to these community garden spaces because they they want to learn how to garden, right?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: They they want to grow food for their family, but whatever they learned in the garden, they couldn't get it to translate in their homes, which makes sense.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when I'm working in this like professional garden, like there's huge budgets, there's people that are hired for sure, right?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Volunteers coming in.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not gonna look the same, right?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to create a business that really supported like the average gardener that just has been painstakingly trying to grow food and just can't figure it out, right?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so that's really like my main customer right now are DIY gardeners.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: I do a design, I do hands-on coaching, which means that I'm in the garden with people, like I am helping them figure out the tasks that are difficult for them and providing a lot of education on how to make it successful over time.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I do a lot of education, I do um online education at different events, and it's all my workshops are donation-based, no one is turned away due to lack of funds because I really want people to have the opportunities to garden, regardless of their budgets.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's important.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, that's garden dealer where it is right now.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: And no, I think that's so awesome what you do, and such a really cool blend of your your background and your past.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean something that I feel like I end up talking uh a lot about on the podcast here, especially I love connecting, of course, with women and women business owners and things like that, but just the kind of beautiful and unexpected way that we might fall into either our business or our new career or a new venture.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like we set out our path to do one thing, right?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, where you're at with Garden Doula might not have been like the plan, right?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: But it's just so interesting and so cool how life sort of takes you there, whether you expected to land there or not, right?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like there's some beautiful kind of overlaps with gardening.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously your clients experience this.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like you probably experience this from a lot of what you've learned along the way, you know.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but one of my first questions to you too is, and because we talked about this before, is that, you know, you work with clients in all seasons, right?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Not just in uh, I mean, I guess we're in the the fall season in Maryland, right?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we, you know, experience all four seasons here.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think that also brings a lot of unique um challenges um to the types of well, soil that you're probably working with, um, and and access to either certain materials, crops, space, things like that.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh, but yeah, so how do you approach um seasons with what whether it's you know your one-on-one clients or your larger clients, maybe let's maybe let's start focus first.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm thinking maybe more the one-on-one, because you know, we're talking to a lot of parents, um, a lot of um families here.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I do believe that gardening is a year-round practice.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's one of the first things I really try to teach my clients is that obviously we have the hot times during the spring and the summer where like that's like when we can grow the most food, but that's not to say that gardening has to stop.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when I worked in like as a vegetable garden manager, like it was not a seasonal job.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was working year round.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: And on the most part, um, I would design like winter gardens.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: I also do a lot of indoor gardening in my home.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's something that I've been building over the last um like nine years, is um making sure that I have food year-round.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: That that is the goal, making sure that I'm growing something, that there's still greenery.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I'm personally not from Maryland, I'm from California.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the biggest shockers for me was seeing things die.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like the leaves falling off the trees.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was very shocking.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was very sad.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like so, over the years I've I've built a practice to keep gardening.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: I do a lot of microgreens and hydroponics, and like I said, with the winter gardens, making sure that we have like the the covers to make sure things that can still grow.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: And but even then, I mean, the winter is a is an ideal time to build infrastructure and to plan and to design and to dream because a garden is always in motion.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think uh a big mistake people make is to just kind of like stop thinking about the garden in the winter.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like, no, just just grow something now.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's very doable.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, this modern age of gardening, there's there's so much like wonderful technology out there to help people have gardens year-round.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I really want to like bring that to people.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, while we're kind of on that topic, like let's do a little myth busting.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's some again, because this is a world that I don't excel at, you know what I mean?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, that was kind of like one of my first questions to you too, is like, you know, I think of, you know, um, Maryland, we have all four seasons, right?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that can make um uh, you know, like I said, just talking about weather, um, climate and things like that.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we also have the challenge.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this happens a lot like in the spring, like early frost that can ruin crops and things like that.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and and even in the fall, right, when we have like the early cold and you know, we're in another warm season, like, well, I shouldn't say warm season, another warm week right before it gets cold again, right?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: We're just this hot, cold, hot cold, right?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know a lot of local farmers across Maryland in this in the DMV, you know, were definitely affected by, you know, some of those um spring freezes and things like that.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but net my next question to you is like, you know, get talking to talking to families, talking to, you know, parents and things like that, you know.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I feel like my my next question is like, do you need a lot of space to be able to garden at home?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Whether, and I guess, you know, I guess the question can go for whether you're indoor gardening or outdoor, but you know, I think most families that live around here either have like a single family home or maybe they're in a townhouse, um, things like that.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: But do you need a lot of space?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: And what does that look like?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Andor what types of equipment do you need?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that's another big misconception that people come with to me.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, oh, well, I can't garden.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: I live in a townhouse.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like that would be impossible.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I live in a townhouse too, and I grow tomatoes and raspberries, and I have a little mulberry tree, and I mean, I have a citrus tree back there that's going to be brought in.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I just I keep bringing stuff in because it's less about the space, but more about how you scale the landscape and understand like where the sun is, where the shade is, like where there's opportunities for um water accumulation so things can grow.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's all very much possible.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I I do encourage people to do a lot of like potted planting if they have like decks and things like that.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's that's the option for me because of where I live.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: I do do a lot of like potted type planting, and there's many different kinds of pots that you can bring in.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: There's like the cloth pots that bring in uh more breathable air into the roots.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's like birdies that like they're like really tall pots that can go to like to your thighs.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: So like it's better for seniors, but it's also really good for like building soil so that you can um actually like stuff it and it's like you have like a stronger um root structure for plants.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's hydroponics, vertical towers.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: I do a lot of vertical growing.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: If you can't grow to the side, just grow up and things of those.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: So those are all strategies that I implement in my own home and the homes of uh my clients.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I know you talked about like the seasons, and you know, Maryland's interesting because sometimes some people say they have we have like eight seasons because it's crazy here, right?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're right, it's kind of like we're in second summer right now, yeah.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like as I sit here in like my tank top dress, because it's true, it's like gonna be 80 and then like 85 tomorrow.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's insane, and that's uh what I help people understand is resilience gardening because we are in climate change and it's only gonna get worse.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: And a big part of that is like really growing native, growing plants that are meant for this area, but on top of that is like the seed saving.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, it is true, there's a lot of like uh fruit trees that don't do well, especially this year.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: I know of a lot of people that you know, like we had like a ton of sun during the early spring and then a frost, and a lot of those flowers died, and that was a huge issue.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: But the thing is that not all of them died, right?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: There's those certain plants that are more resilient and can withstand these conditions.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: And a big part of Garden Vula is the community aspect where I want to encourage people to talk about like what are the varieties that are working and how can we spread those so that we're not getting stuck in situations.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And even on top of that, I mean, we know that a frost is coming, there's ways to protect the plants beforehand, there's so many tools that can be used.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a really big educational initiative.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: When I work with my clients, I think the biggest um feedback I get from is how much they've learned.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: And once they learn, like it's all of a sudden things become doable.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: And but since we're not taught these things in schools, like we have to learn it somewhere, right?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's true.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you learn, I mean, I remember in like middle school, we learned a lot about like, you know, the plant life cycle, photosynthesis, like because you're learning about like cells and biology and things like that, but really kind of outside of that, and like, you know, I think some of the biological bases when it comes to like um our environments, you know, it doesn't really go into definitely not in depth about plants and things like that.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's kind of its own separate world, really.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, other than those that might have had parents or grandparents or family members that were, you know, took an interest in it at home.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I mean, I was fortunate, like my mom loves loves plants, and my grandfather was a gardener.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and my mother-in-law is also really big into it.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: So my um, my husband's also, well, I would say well, we we used to have like more plants.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we still do have like a lot of plants, but like I think when we first moved here, we would buy lots of potted plants.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, that's kind of evolved as we've learned like what works better, you know what I mean, in in different years and things like that.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, and then we had kids, so it's like we've the different things that we've um done potted varieties of has changed over the years because of our our also our our bandwidth.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are we taking care of?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: We're like we're gonna see them taking care of our babies, and you know, so we might have some other like I think we have like a few like indoor plants and maybe less like potted things that are essentially on our deck at this time in our life.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like that um is very relevant to a lot of families that you know, um, because it's a responsibility, you know.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: You you can't just uh, you know, buy something and and hope it'll just, you know, keep going.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: You have to take care of it.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's a very good point that you make is what when I t what I tell people is that like essentially it's like bringing in a pet, right?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that you you really have to take care of.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I I feel like a lot of issues that people have is that they just kind of like get excited and and forget that they have a garden.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: They just like bring in all these plants and they're like, oh my garden, oh my garden, but then life happens and they're like, Oh, what happened to that garden?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's why the coaching is really helpful because I, you know, I get scheduled seasonally and I come in and I'm like, okay, let's let's work on the garden, what's going on?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it's someone to just help uh help make them accountable for what they're investing in.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of times people will say, like, garden is so expensive.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because yeah, I mean, the initial investment can be pricey if you know you're going to the garden store and buying all the things, and it's a huge loss to buy so much and nothing out of it.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people get very discouraged and they're just like, Oh, I fail, I can't do this.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I part of the resilience building is teaching people like what it means to be a gardener because I think the attributes of a gardener is someone that is consistent and resilient, and they um are troubleshooters, experimenters, and there's a certain amount of optimism that you have to have.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's like a really good way to put that optimism, yes.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like hope that whatever you plant will grow.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Something I always tell people is that like every time I plant something, I always tell the plant, like, I hope you grow.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: And because I I do believe it's like a relationship, just how you would have with a pet.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that you would love.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: And in some indigenous cultures, plants are our family, it's kin.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you think about like indigenous cultures have had like potatoes that they brought with them over generations.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would love to see people in our current time in our you know, where we live now, that have like those tomatoes that they've been growing for years and the seeds are important to them.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's an heirloom that they carry with them that they prov that they give to their family over time.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's like a beautiful approach that I love to see in people.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's really cool.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, it's so funny that you basically um started to answer or sort of, you know, talk about my next question, which was which I I know is pretty straightforward, but you know, my my third myth busting type question is, you know, um, I guess it's not the question of is gardening expensive, because I think like many things, like, yes, you know, and I think it's kind of actually regardless of the economy.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, I mean, I remember years ago just going to the store and like, oh, I want to buy like all my um my my flowers.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: I want to like, you know, because my mom was always obsessed with doing her pots.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like she would love to do her front pots and her pots on our deck and stuff like that.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I'm gonna do that too.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's so pretty.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then it's like, oh my God, this is really expensive.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, um, so but there's also different, you know, types that you can get.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: And um, there's so many different, you know, and I and maybe it also depends on the type, the season that you're buying for, um, and whether you're buying things that are already like, you know, say in bloom or more mature versus, you know, going from seed, right?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um so, but you know, so talk to me about the investment um and what that could look like to maybe someone that's getting started.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, with my clients, I I like to put together like three to five year plans.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: What I never recommend is someone to just like just put it all in at once because people don't realize just how much uh energy and time it takes to just to do that and how it's by the summertime people are just like so exhausted that they just can't continue, right?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, for sure, right?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and um, you know, I've had like different clients with different budgets, and I have some people that are like very like super budget conscious, like I want to do everything myself, and I provide a very different design for that person from the other person that like just has the means, they're just like I'm just gonna install a new wall, new fence, and I'm like, okay, you know, let's this yeah, right, right, all out with your garden.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I encourage a lot of like let's say you want to plant tomatoes, then the the best way would be to do it from seed if you're gonna want to save money because seeds are gonna be a lot cheaper, right?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but obviously that does require some kind of system.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I would encourage uh a more a less expensive system when it comes to gardening.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's like buying a car, right?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, ooh, do you want the like the Lexus or do you want like the budget-friendly, like you know, 1990s car that just works, right?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Gets you to A to B.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I I I provide.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: I provide uh alternative strategies for people that need to save money because there's always less expensive ways to get what you need.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can get free, like literally, you can get free compost from like horse farms, which I have hauled myself.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, the best stuff that you can get.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: So if you need cheap compost, or you can get like chip drops that for free at front at your front door if you need that to build soil.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's so many plant swaps out there that you can go.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you'd be surprised how during the spring, like if you're in the Facebook groups, people want to give away their plants because they grow all these plants from seed and there's too much for them.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: And they're willing to give it away.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I always like because I've done it both ways, right?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like done it in ways where, like, when I was a college student, like I literally just had seed packs, and this was before like Google was huge, right?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not that old.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right, right, right.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: I had to like read the packets, right?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I know what it's like to be budget conscious, but it doesn't mean it's not possible, it's just like it you To build your garden slower, more intentionally, and really know more community.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: You the more people you know, the more yeah, opportunities you have.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a and even in Howard County, there's a huge like growing community that's already here.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I was gonna say, I feel like Howard County is a uniquely great area for gardening because um because we're kind of in between two major, uh I'll say two major DMB, two major like metropolitan cities like DC and Baltimore, right?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, because uh once you go more west, um Howard County, you kind of get um, even though that I wouldn't say it's necessarily half the county, there's you know, you start to get into more farmland.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, so when you tap into say something like the Facebook groups, right, you know, there are um a lot of people that are in there that, you know, um might live in some of those areas, or you know, can we kind of border on that like Carroll County um area where or and even Frederick, right, where you kind of get into when, you know, there's a little bit more space, a little bit more farmlands and things like that.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like our area aids well into kind of like what you're talking about.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so, and because I don't know, I think some this is just one of the beautiful reasons why I feel like I love Howard County.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is again a completely side tangent.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was just driving to a coffee shop this morning and I was like, man, one of the reasons why I love Howard County is like that I don't have to get on a beltway to go where I want to go, like in my direct area.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: And and I say that because I was just like, man, it's so in like it's so nice because it just feels so much more peaceful to get around in my area, right?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of one of the beautiful reasons why I love living here.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: I just feel like it doesn't feel as stressful, right?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: And but anyways, bringing that back to kind of the whole point of all of this, right, is that the access to potential resources, the, you know, whether that's space, whether that's just like you said, like, you know, there are a good amount of like um farmers, um uh, you know, horse farms, like all these different places, all these different things.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's funny, I actually have gotten like one or two plants off of Facebook Marketplace, and I hadn't really thought about that, like doing that um moving forward, um, because I love Facebook Marketplace.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: I get kind of like addicted to it sometimes.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, again, talking about resources, right?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like thinking of like there's so many places you could probably call up, you know, to ask if they have certain things like that.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, and the other thing that I think of too, this isn't exactly under myth busting, right?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just give the random example.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it's not related to gardening, but like I'm planning my daughter's birthday party, right?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: And like many things, whether you're car shopping or planning a party, right?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think like, man, like I could buy all this decor, like pre-made, right?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, that's kind of expensive.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh, I'll just go the DIY route.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm like, that's kind of expensive too.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: But so it's you know, it's but like you said, I think that there's still ways that you can, when it comes to gardening, right, that you can find in a prototype and potentially still work for you because the DIY route, well, well, I think I'm kind of oversimplifying DIY when it comes, I just mean maybe maybe like you know, starting from seedlings or seeds, you know what I mean?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's still gonna be work involved.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: You might be able to, it might be a cheaper entry level, you're just gonna have to do more of the back-end work.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas, like if you know buying, you know, plants that are already like you know in bloom, right?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: You're paying more up front, you know, to have a slightly more finished product.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: You still have to maintain, right?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Both of them still need maintenance, right?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's just kind of like which entry point you want to start at, kind of thing.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and maintenance is the biggest thing.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's the biggest question I get.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, so if I start this garden, do I have to maintain it?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, can I just ignore it?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no, right, right.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: You really have to like be in the garden.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why for me, coaching was like an integral part of the business, because you know, there's people out there that can install a garden for you, they can design a garden for you, but there really isn't much out there of someone that's gonna help you maintain it in a way that well, for one thing, is affordable, or in a way that it's actually teaching you how to become a better gardener over time and and to build that rhythm.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because because we are in four seasons and because we have like these like cycles, I really encourage people to become integrated into those cycles to become rhythmic themselves.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I do believe that if people are able to do that, like there's there's a certain joy that comes with that, there's a certain fulfillment that happens when you are integrated with with the rhythms of nature, the rhythms of cycles, and um, and there's so many ways to do it.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's some people that will like plant when the new moon comes out.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it's like the full moon.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like some people are like that connected, but other people are more like, oh, well, in the spring, you know, I do my Chelsea job, and in the summer, you know, I do this.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: And there's many different ways to do it.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think when it comes to maintenance, um I feel like especially in Howard County, there's this kind of like people feel like there's like these rules, like it's like, oh no, I missed the season, I can't garden no more.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like there's like these set like rules that someone made that someone can't follow, so they feel like they're failing.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right when it comes to gardening.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I really I really challenge people to to kind of see like how they could do it their way.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, the garden and you know needs certain kind of support at certain times.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: That is true.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: But that's not to say that you're never on time.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't like to people to feel like they've started as a failure because they just didn't start something on time.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh, I took I started my tomatoes a little too late.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's impossible.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, maybe it's impossible to do them like outdoors.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't mean you can't do some indoor tomatoes, like that's not possible, right?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and so yeah, I I really encourage people to find a maintenance schedule that really fits their life and not like what a book told them it should be.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because every plant is different, and you there's literally like billions of plants.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much you can grow, and there's so much opportunity, and I just I really want people to like lean into that because I yeah, I mean, I I think it's fun to live in a world where we have opportunities, not in a world where we just feel like we kind of failed before we started.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's so true.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and that's kind of why I started off like with some of those like myth busting questions, just because I was thinking, you know, and again, I don't I don't think people necessarily walk around, you know, with these assumptions, you know, to negatively hold them back.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: I just I also believe that people we don't know what we don't know.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like again, like this is not my world.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: This is not, you know, what I sub, you know, and I feel like I feel like I'm the queen of not knowing what I don't know.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm very good at that, right?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm very good at being very clueless to many things.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, having an open mind to learn to apply, right?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that's why I was kind of like leading with some of like what I would even say are just my general assumptions and even just kind of like the thing.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would assume, like, oh, well, it's fall, like, you know, it's harvest season, right?
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: So now is the time where I might not necessarily be planting, I'm harvesting, or I'm like toiling up the soil to get it prepped, right?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but outside of that, like I don't, I don't know, you know, that there that you know, there are many other things that I could be doing, say, in this season.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I do know that like, you know, we're about to be in the season of say, you know, pull in your plants, right?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Start to weatherproof some of those, right?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, again, different actions, different steps that you can be taking, both like, you know, if you have outdoor plants versus indoor things like that.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, what was my next question for you?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Of um, you know, oh, well, so wait, the other question we were we were talking about gardening maintenance, right?
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's always a level of maintenance that's going to be required.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I think you probably can speak to plenty of clients and plenty of individuals that there are certain plants that are say easier than others, um, or less temperamental than others.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: I know that there is plenty out there, right?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, for instance, like I know orchids get uh kind of a bad rep of being very challenging, but that's something that like my mom and mother-in-law have uh very and my father and my and my husband, like you know, are really good at, but I know people talk about all the time that like they can never keep an orchid alive because again, they're um I feel like they they I don't know if temperamental is the right word, but just kind of finding the right method or my methodology um for them.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's and I'm gonna forget the name of I have uh Amontasera, I think is the way it is how it's pronounced um upstairs that like I can neglect her a lot and she is thriving because it just kind of again it depends, right?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: I also you maybe you could argue that I have her in the right spot and she's got enough water, whatever.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I have like two plants up there that like they are, and I love it because that's perfect for my lifestyle, right?
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like something that's low maintenance but beautiful and you know, uh low effort, but not not that I don't like I don't ignore them, you know what I mean?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: I do water them, but they're they don't need as much um regular attention as as potentially other plants, other varieties.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: So um there's a few ways I can answer that question.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um when I have people that come in and they're just like, I'm completely new, I don't know anything, and they want to let's say grow vegetables, like there's certain vegetables that I will recommend to them first compared to others.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: So for instance, like I'm not gonna recommend for them to grow cabbage because cabbage, like it just takes a really long time, and then you think it looks good, and then you open it up and then it has worms inside of it, and it's so defeating.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because like you just have to grow it like in a very specific way, or carrots.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: I I find it so surprising that carrots are so huge in agriculture because carrots are not very easy to grow.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like you get one.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: I would not have known that.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you get one seed per carrot, which is pretty rare.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you grow one seed, you for tomatoes, you can get like 200 tomatoes per plant if you're really lucky.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't recommend people that are brand new to grow a carrot.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: I would recommend Daikon, which is a radish that's like white and long, and it's usually on like Asian cooking, and you know, it's good.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: To me, it's comparable to a carrot, but it's so easy, it's like the easiest thing to grow.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, um, other examples would be just like like lettuces and kales and spinaches, greens in general are always going to be so much more forgiving compared to fruiting things, herbs are more forgiving.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: And even like perennial vegetables, which um a lot of people don't know about, but that's really big in permaculture.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, for instance, growing like so chan or lambsporter vegetables that people don't know about, but they're extremely healthy and they just kind of grow themselves.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, chickweed is another one.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: That one's not native, but it is a perennial vegetable that maybe I know actually that comes out like every spring, like on its own, like in every like farmer worked app or like aggregate growing space, it just comes out like oh, chick it's chickweed season, and you just grab that and it just grows and it's gonna be probably a lot more healthy than a lot of like the vegetables you find in the grocery store.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: But people just don't know about it.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if someone like is really looking for something that's gonna be less maintenance, I would look outside the box.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, don't think about what is in my grocery store, think about like what is pretty much wild and native in this area that we live in, and and be open to those different foods.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think for some people that's more hard.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think it's a good strategy if you're really looking for less maintenance.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, for sure.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um okay, last question.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: When I think of indoor gardening, I mean, I've obviously we've talked about investment, we talked about, you know, um different things that you can need, and obviously that will also very much be dependent on like your budget, your plan, the goals of what you're trying to do, right?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: When I think of like hydro, am I saying hydroponics?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like I mean, I know there's like I think there's different types of um equipment, like, you know, there's some that are like maybe tabletop or countertop that are smaller.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's some other things that start to get like, you know, larger and taller.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: Depend I guess maybe depends on what system and things like that.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: But when I think of those things, I start to think like, okay, that sounds also really expensive.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: Can you speak to some of that a little bit?
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like I think that's really intriguing because you know, I see people doing different things when it comes to like, you know, whether it's growing things like different herbs or different lettuces, um, things like that.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: So specifically hydroponics, I have done quite a bit, and you're right.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there could be some really expensive systems out there, right?
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there's also systems you can make on your own.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's a system called the cracky method, which requires um no pumps, it requires just a feeding once in the whole lifespan of the plant.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: And you could literally just use containers from your house.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: You just can get like you can get buckets as long as you have a lid and you make it opaque because it can't have light, because that would attract algae.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you just put a plant, and that's a very like inexpensive method that is hydroponics, right?
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in terms of indoor gardening, um, microgreens I would say is like moderate because you do need a lot of seed.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because the thing about microgreens is it's not like because you cut them when they're like the plants when they're like 10 days old, so they're not gonna have an opportunity to reseed themselves.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: But um, it's a really fast way to get food.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: And as long as you, you know, someone has a budget to and you can buy like a big bag of like kale seeds for like 20 bucks or something like that.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's another like pretty inexpensive option that I that I think is doable.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um But I mean, yeah, like I mean, as I said before, like I there is an option for everyone, especially with hydroponics, like there's systems that you can put together yourself, even using like the tubing and stuff like that.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I do incorporate those into designs as well.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: And um yeah, I mean it's all very doable.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I I think what's not available always is the knowledge, and I think is oh, yeah.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think like the time, I I will say like I think people have like a strong drive to do things, but you know, that research takes time.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it does.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Who's gonna sit there and do all the research?
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh, Garden Dooland does, right?
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, well, I was just gonna say you did it for me.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, that's kind of this is like, and this is why it's perfect that we're having this call, you know, that you kind of come pre-packaged with the knowledge, with the information, that you make customized plans, you'll help educate, um, meet people where they're at, regardless of, you know, their their um their their budgets, their design, you know, maybe their effort level, or, you know, again, their, I think, I guess maybe the better way to factoring in their capacity and level of maintenance that they're able and willing to put in, because that'll kind of go into the plan, I feel like.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because you're not going to recommend somebody, you know, yeah, you, or you might tell, you know, let's just say somebody wants that, like Rolls Royce, like, I want all these things, but you're like, yeah, if you want all these things, you're gonna have to do this level of work, and they're like, oh, then that might open them up and be like, okay, well, maybe, you know, they shift their expectations so that you can help them have a practical plan that makes sense for their life and what they're able to do.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but okay, so as we start to wrap up here, tell you have some awesome upcoming um events.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: You do workshops, you do all sorts of really cool things in the community.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us what's on the landscape for you right now.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, of course.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: So um a workshop that I have coming up, it's called Living with Deer, a permaculture approach to garden protection.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: And essentially, um, with a lot of the research I've done, we all know that deer are really one of the biggest reasons while people they cannot garden.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so many people that are like, I can't garden, I have deer.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I really want to turn over that misconception to tell people like, yes, you can.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: It it's it's so doable, but it requires a layered strategy approach.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: So um this series is um there's two coming up, and it's the same class.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I have to take the same class twice.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's November 5th and November 3rd.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: Those are both on Thursdays from 7 to 8 p.m.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: It is donation-based, so whatever can people can give, I will accept.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's an online thing.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: And in this class, we we look about um why deer interacting with our landscapes.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about the history of deer in Maryland, which is a very interesting one because there was at one point a time, about a hundred years ago, where deer almost became extinct because of how we were overhunting and taking away their landscapes, their habitats.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then there was actually like a resurgence of deer because people wanted to bring them back because they felt bad.
• 39:28
  unknown: Yeah.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: And now we're in the situation where now there's too many deer.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Which is interesting because we're even more heavily populated in this area, uh, or just along the eco east coast in general.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very dense population.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we'd argue that a lot of their um environment, their ecosystem has shifted dramatically, and yet there's still a massive population of them.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that has a lot to do with the fact that they've lost we've lost the predators that would normally just the key, right?
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we just we just don't have those animals anymore.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's a class for people that genuinely want to understand how to build a relationship with these animals in a way that's positive for the environment that they're in and the gardens that they have.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so, you know, we've had one class so far and we've had a really great response.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that was a really fun one.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the next event that we have is actually a retreat.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to be at the Maryland Innovation Center.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's on January 16th from 1 to 5 p.m.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I will be doing this in collaboration with a therapist on Sa Meng.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: And this is all it's called Creating a Peaceful Indergarden, a New Year's Retreat.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's about teaching people how to see an indoor garden as something that connects to their wellness and um general peace in life.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's this is about indoor gardening, wellness, visualizations.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna be doing um meditations, we're gonna be doing um different kinds of exercises so that we can connect with our plants in our home and find a way to find peace in our lives during this really cold time, right?
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know December passes, and then once the holidays pass, it can be a really sad time for people.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: So when Sachs and we talked about this class, we talked about like how can we create something for people that have really struggled during this time and like need some kind of outlet.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: So in the class, we'll we'll talk to people about how to create a very specific type of indoor garden.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is not just like like when I've been putting like the materials together, and and this is a garden that's inspires your senses, inspires your soul, and inspires growth.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm really excited about it.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: And Sa herself, she's gonna put together like a wellness guide on how we can, as a therapist, how she teaches her clients how to connect with spaces around their home so that they can feel more intact during this like really cold season.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: What a beautiful like combination of you guys coming together.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds so wonderful.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, we will be sure to put those up on our events calendar as well.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: So um anyone listening here can definitely check it out um on our website, share with some friends and family.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think the deer classes, I feel like there's so many people that I want to send that to, regardless of age, whether you're my age, I'm thinking of like my parents, my mother-in-law, my all of mine.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, oh, you know what's great?
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: My neighborhood finally just started a Facebook group.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I will definitely share those in that Facebook group because I know there's a lot of and we get riddled.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, everybody, I think, in Howard County get riddled with so much deer.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I see my neighbors all the time.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do you know, uh they they try to do all the different things to mitigate them, and you know, without a doubt, they always find a way.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we ourselves like had to do very specific landscaping in the front.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: We have a six-foot fence around the backyard, so we're good over there.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: But in the front, we had to be very specific in working with our um landscaper.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: This was like seven years ago, and luckily most of the varieties have done well.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's only like um one or two that we had to swap out um that the deer really went for.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: But other than that, you know, again, but I think that's kind of like what you're talking about is being uh, yeah, you want to you want to work with the land, you want to work with the animals um in ways that can still benefit you and benefit them.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, granted, trust me, they still walk through our space, but they're no longer eating up everything of ours, thank goodness.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we don't have to sit there and spray and do, you know what I mean?
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I wanted to, I didn't want to have to be like spraying all kinds of different things.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think we just happen to eventually get good varieties that um I guess they're not interested in eating, so that's good for us.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, that's definitely the goal.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, similar with my front area.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in the beginning, you know, I did have deer issues, but now I'm at a point where like, I know there's deer, but I mean I don't see them and it they don't bother my landscape, and it's a very good feeling.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know they have to get their strategy source somewhere, and right now it's my neighborhouse neighbor's house and not mine.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: So um to each their own, right?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know they're frustrated, but um, anyways, we will be sharing all of your upcoming classes.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, obviously, uh, we'll share you know your social, but in the meantime, where can people find you to learn more if they have questions, if they want to reach out regarding your upcoming classes, or frankly, you know, maybe schedule like a um a call to learn more about how they can get started on their own.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so my website is transformtheland.com.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: And on there, um, you know, you can look over just all the things that I've done.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: There's examples of the designs I've had and the different uh types of initiatives that I've worked on.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also really looking to work with school gardens, building more community school gardens.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: So there's right now um the emphasis is on working with residents, but over time I do want to expand um community gardens in the area so that even with people that don't have as much land, as much opportunity, there's um there's a place for them where they can be connected with land.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much for your time today, Roxanne.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was so wonderful to chat with you.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I, if anything, this is kind of like a, you know, I think it's easy to have these kinds of conversations, say, in like, you know, um pre-spring or early spring when people are getting excited about, you know, kind of the rebirth, that recycle.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I'm glad that we can have the conversation in fall to let people know that they can still have reasons to, you know, um get excited about the land, taking care of um themselves and their plants.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: So um obviously, thank you so much for your time today.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: We look forward to your upcoming events and uh we look forward to talking with you again soon.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thanks, Claire.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate your time, of course.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Mom Talk Maryland.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you loved it, leave a review, share it with a friend, or tag me at the dot ColumbiaMom on Instagram.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to hear what you think.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: And don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, keep showing up, keep supporting local, and keep being the incredible mom, woman, human that you are.