Latest / NHA Today Podcast / 155: From Knowing to Doing: Closing the Gap in Plant-Based Living with Timaree Hagenburger

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155: From Knowing to Doing: Closing the Gap in Plant-Based Living with Timaree Hagenburger · NHA Today Podcast

0:01
Okay, we are recording.
0:02
I'm going to back out of the studio
0:04
and you guys just do your thing and
0:06
I'll be back later.
0:09
Thank you, Mark.
0:12
Well, welcome.
0:13
I'm your host, Dr. Frank Sabatino,
0:15
and I'm excited today to have as my
0:16
guest, Timmery Hagenberger,
0:19
who is a registered dietitian.
0:22
She also has a master's in public health.
0:24
She's been involved in teaching and
0:26
working with plant-based education for
0:29
over twenty years,
0:30
even at a collegiate level.
0:31
She taught on the faculty.
0:32
I'm assuming you're still on that faculty,
0:34
yes?
0:35
No, I'm across the country, so no.
0:38
okay now you're across the country yeah uh
0:40
she she is the author of two books
0:43
called one is the foodie way foodie way
0:46
which is uh one meal uh lots of
0:48
options everyone's happy i like that title
0:50
it's great and the other one is a
0:52
nice cream thirty one flavors that will
0:55
love you back she's the senior public
0:58
health nutritionist for the wic program in
1:00
florida which is uh women infants and
1:03
children it's a government-funded program
1:05
and she's been
1:06
spreading the plant-based message within
1:08
that community.
1:08
And we're going to talk a little bit
1:09
more about that.
1:10
So welcome, Timmery.
1:11
It's such a pleasure to have you.
1:13
Thank you.
1:14
It's a pleasure to be here, too,
1:16
with a fellow Italian.
1:18
Yes.
1:19
You know,
1:19
I was going to say that we both
1:21
grew up in these southern Italian
1:22
households.
1:23
And, you know,
1:24
growing up in those households,
1:26
food is love.
1:27
Love is food.
1:28
Everything's passionate.
1:29
That's my first question.
1:30
Let me give me an idea of what
1:33
was the provocation for you shifting into
1:36
a plant based way of living.
1:38
I mean, southern Italians,
1:39
there's a lot of pastas and plants,
1:41
but of course,
1:41
there's cheese and other things, too.
1:43
Was there an aha moment?
1:46
Was there an event?
1:46
Was there a series of events that moved
1:49
you in that direction?
1:51
You know,
1:52
it's interesting because it does come from
1:55
a love of food.
1:57
I grew up in the kitchen with my
1:59
mom and my grandparents.
2:01
And we truly showed love with food so
2:04
much that we left Nona's house empty.
2:07
uncomfortable every Sunday.
2:09
I mean, that was just part of it.
2:11
And I can remember my dad's cholesterol
2:14
going up higher and higher.
2:16
And for my Nona,
2:17
not relenting and pushing the meatballs,
2:20
just one after another.
2:22
Do you know how much time I spent
2:23
on these meatballs, Anthony?
2:25
And he'd get to the point where he'd
2:26
say, Ma, we can't come over.
2:29
We feel sick when we leave.
2:31
And
2:31
And she just that's how she showed love.
2:34
Of course, she loved us in other ways,
2:35
but that was a primary way.
2:38
And we weren't a sick family.
2:41
My mom actually was a dietitian as well.
2:45
So we were on the healthy side of
2:48
whatever that meant.
2:50
But we did.
2:52
Nona had sky high cholesterol,
2:54
high blood pressure.
2:56
She had intestinal issues.
2:58
She was always dealing with constipation.
3:01
And she was a little four ten lady.
3:04
She wasn't overweight,
3:05
but we just kind of accepted that there
3:08
was no overt diabetes.
3:11
So we just figured that's I mean,
3:13
we're on the healthier side of things.
3:16
And when I became a dietitian,
3:18
I saw the same situations,
3:20
people with the high blood pressure,
3:22
people with the high cholesterol and just
3:25
assumed it was genetic because that's what
3:27
we were told.
3:28
And that's what they told my dad, too,
3:30
that just wait, look at your mom.
3:33
She's little and she still has all these
3:35
issues.
3:35
So when I became a dietitian,
3:38
I was on a mission to help people
3:41
really use food to their benefit.
3:45
But I really found that most people took
3:47
one step forward and two steps back.
3:50
I can remember being in clinic and having
3:53
spent months with an individual trying to
3:55
help them make better choices.
3:57
And after Christmas, I thought, OK,
4:00
she can just have maintained her weight
4:02
because a lot of people struggle with
4:04
weight gain during those holidays.
4:07
And she came in and she was seven
4:08
pounds heavier.
4:09
And I said, what happened?
4:11
She said, oh, no, I'm so excited.
4:13
I have to tell you,
4:14
I bought a deep fat fryer for Christmas.
4:18
Now I can cook the French fries at
4:20
home.
4:22
Now,
4:22
we had to take it one step further
4:24
because I asked her,
4:24
do you use a potato and cut it
4:27
up?
4:28
No,
4:28
I buy those the bags in the freezer
4:30
section.
4:31
I said,
4:31
so you're frying those twice because they
4:34
were fried at the factory and now you're
4:36
frying them again.
4:38
And so I thought there has to be
4:40
a way because when people were just eating
4:42
less of those foods and especially the
4:46
dairy and the meats,
4:48
they weren't making very much progress.
4:51
So I was doing my very best and
4:54
also always loving food.
4:56
And so I actually had gone to a
4:59
cooking class at a local church and it
5:02
was about plant-based cooking.
5:05
And I thought,
5:06
well, I love plants.
5:08
And so I love learning,
5:09
even if I pick up one little thing.
5:11
I mean, I've loved cooking forever.
5:14
So I went to this class and the
5:15
person said, I'm vegan.
5:17
I love animals, but I hate vegetables.
5:21
And I thought,
5:23
what I love vegetables.
5:26
I love animals too, but,
5:28
and that turned me on and I thought,
5:30
oh my gosh,
5:31
there's a whole separate world here.
5:34
And so then I really started digging into
5:36
the research and I found that this works,
5:41
this is better than ever because at the
5:44
time I was also teaching and I was
5:46
teaching to a population that struggled
5:49
economically.
5:50
And we're from a variety of different
5:52
backgrounds.
5:54
And so to be able to deliver news
5:56
that the foods that we can afford,
5:59
the plants can actually hold the future
6:04
for health is just amazing.
6:07
amazing so i dug in deep and it
6:12
shocked my parents hugely my mom was one
6:15
of the hardest to convert over because
6:16
that's not what she learned when she was
6:18
in school and i'd say mom i know
6:21
i have a master's in public health and
6:23
we never learned about this nutrition for
6:26
diet for um vegetarianism was always like
6:30
a risk oh it could be a risk
6:33
and it's like yeah it could be a
6:34
risk not to
6:36
So you would appreciate this because when
6:39
there were times at those big holiday
6:42
meals and, you know,
6:43
in those Italian households,
6:45
you can sit down at three o'clock in
6:47
the afternoon at nine o'clock at night,
6:49
you're still at the dinner table.
6:50
And I, there were many times,
6:53
there were a number of times when I
6:54
actually did water fasting at those meals.
6:58
So you can imagine the reaction.
7:00
of my Italian family to the idea that
7:03
I was not eating at all.
7:06
The idea that you would voluntarily
7:08
abstain from food unless there was a
7:10
famine was such a foreign concept.
7:13
Yeah, so I get all that.
7:15
Let's talk about something because you
7:16
touched on something.
7:17
You're sharing information and we all do
7:20
that.
7:21
And I know one of the things for
7:22
you is what you call that knowledge action
7:25
gap.
7:26
And let's talk a little bit about that
7:28
because it's a really important piece.
7:31
None of what we're teaching is really
7:33
rocket science.
7:34
I mean, if you really talk to people,
7:35
they know that if they sleep better,
7:38
move more,
7:39
probably eat less junk and a little bit
7:41
better,
7:42
they're going to do better.
7:43
So they can gather knowledge.
7:45
And like you say,
7:46
there's inspiration all around us with
7:48
podcasts and lectures and things.
7:51
But there's that gap because of human
7:53
behavior between the knowing and the
7:56
doing.
7:57
So in your experience, again,
7:59
let's touch base with you because of
8:01
twenty years of teaching in college and
8:03
working with people one on one and in
8:05
your foodie bar way community,
8:07
which we'll get deeply into in a little
8:08
bit.
8:10
Give us, from your standpoint, we know,
8:13
talk about the things that help people
8:16
have problems staying on track or not
8:19
succeeding.
8:20
And what is it that they can do
8:22
individually from your perspective that
8:25
can improve their options for success?
8:28
So that's a great, great question.
8:31
Because
8:33
That is truly the gap.
8:35
A lot of people know there are some
8:36
who don't.
8:37
And when you don't know and then you're
8:40
given this information or you discover it,
8:42
it's pretty exciting.
8:44
But there's still that gap that, you know,
8:47
cognitive dissonance between what now I
8:49
need to be doing and what I have
8:52
been doing.
8:54
And, you know,
8:55
the body and the mind wants the easiest
8:57
path, right?
8:58
The path of least resistance.
9:00
So any kind of change happens.
9:01
just kind of gets the hair on the
9:03
back of our neck up,
9:04
even if we're excited about it.
9:06
And so in my experience,
9:09
my students who took my classes really did
9:14
wonderful because they had that consistent
9:19
motivation, but also kind of immersion.
9:23
And so I to touch on what you
9:26
do as well with your retreats.
9:29
So that idea of really giving someone help
9:32
with the environment where they can feel
9:36
some improvement relatively quickly is
9:41
huge.
9:42
And I had a lot of students who
9:44
would make wonderful progress when they
9:46
were in my classes because they had that
9:48
Monday, Wednesday, Friday or Tuesday,
9:50
Thursday.
9:51
And they would just kind of that would
9:53
help them to stay on track,
9:54
stay on track,
9:55
just the touch point of being in class.
9:59
But then once they finished the semester,
10:02
I would see them, you know,
10:04
and sometimes it'd be like, oh,
10:06
Hagenberger, what, you know.
10:08
The food police, yes.
10:11
Exactly.
10:11
And I'd say, no, no, no.
10:13
How are you doing?
10:14
Oh, well, you know,
10:14
when I wasn't going to class,
10:16
I kind of just slipped a little because
10:18
that's not how my roommates eat or,
10:20
you know, what the situation was.
10:22
And so actually back in school,
10:24
I created TOP, which was Thrive on Plants.
10:28
It was a club that we met every
10:30
week and I was the sole advisor.
10:33
And for four, five years, I
10:35
I had every single weekly meeting that I
10:38
held and I invited everybody who had ever
10:41
taken my classes and anybody from the
10:43
public.
10:45
And so that kind of, again,
10:47
that touch point that helped people as
10:49
they kind of wandered off,
10:51
that's one situation.
10:53
you know, that's one piece.
10:54
So having some,
10:55
even if it's something that they do,
10:58
they revisit, you know,
10:59
we have all these wonderful documentaries,
11:02
but if you haven't seen one in a
11:04
while, it doesn't,
11:07
it may not be right there,
11:09
but when you watch it again,
11:10
you get energized and think, yes,
11:12
this is why I'm doing what I'm doing.
11:15
So if people can just watch,
11:18
intentionally make a create a way that
11:22
they can stay in touch because in reality,
11:26
and we know this mainstream is not doing
11:28
this.
11:29
I mean,
11:29
as much as we would love it,
11:31
you cannot just look out your window and
11:33
see all of this support for plant based
11:35
eating.
11:36
So we definitely need to do this for
11:38
ourselves.
11:41
Go ahead.
11:41
Yes.
11:43
I was just going to say that one
11:44
of the pieces of that, though, is,
11:46
and I'm curious how you addressed it with
11:48
your people, was that, as you know,
11:50
as you start moving away from certain
11:52
items of nutrition,
11:53
whether that be dairy or whether that be
11:56
refined sugar or animal products,
11:59
each of those things has their own
12:00
addictive quality.
12:02
So the person is actually going through
12:04
various stages of withdrawal and
12:07
from those foods in that kind of addictive
12:09
compulsive eating process so not only the
12:13
action step how did you address that with
12:15
your people did you bring in some sense
12:18
like for example we know that in dairy
12:20
there are about eight different forms of
12:22
morphine that are tied into dairy products
12:25
so when you pull that away there's
12:26
literally an opiate withdrawal moderate
12:29
but still there so how did you address
12:31
those components in that in that
12:34
educational process with your people
12:37
So we I did it on several different
12:40
levels,
12:41
but one way that and it basically started
12:44
out in my own family because I got,
12:47
you know,
12:47
I did this education on myself and I
12:50
thought, well,
12:50
where I'm going to start is at home.
12:53
You know,
12:53
I'm not I'm not someone who makes
12:56
recommendations to my students or to my
12:58
patients personally.
12:59
but doesn't follow through with it.
13:01
So it had to work with me first.
13:03
And I came home to my family who
13:06
I already had two kids.
13:07
My husband was a tried and true meat,
13:12
milk.
13:12
And I came from this Italian family who
13:15
was very animal product centric, right?
13:19
So I did it at home and they
13:22
don't care about health.
13:24
They,
13:25
I needed to do it based on taste
13:26
for them.
13:27
So my goal then became,
13:30
I want food that touches and tickles the
13:34
taste buds in a way and the eyes,
13:38
right?
13:38
Really paying attention to what we're
13:40
eating so that it is truly pleasure
13:43
because I wasn't ready to give up the
13:46
love of food,
13:48
even though I was giving up quote unquote,
13:52
some of those
13:54
you know, the dairy,
13:55
all of the dairy and the meat products.
13:57
And so I really,
13:58
that was something I was committed to,
14:01
to making sure that the food that loved
14:04
us back, we actually enjoyed eating.
14:08
Because as a dietician,
14:10
I had a long history of being in
14:12
a career where everybody in the hospital
14:15
runs when you come in the door,
14:17
because they think you're going to take
14:18
away everything they love.
14:20
Yeah.
14:21
Patients were never excited to see the
14:23
dietician ever.
14:25
It was all about restriction.
14:27
And for me,
14:28
it had to be about actually swapping those
14:32
foods out.
14:34
And another piece of this,
14:36
I definitely feel like that addictive
14:38
piece is there.
14:40
But I also feel like we overestimate the
14:44
enjoyment of some of those foods.
14:47
Because in many cases,
14:49
what I've seen is when my patients or
14:51
clients or students did take a break from
14:56
whatever it was,
14:57
even if we're talking about salt,
14:59
that when they then were exposed to that
15:02
same level that they used to consume.
15:05
It was not.
15:07
It was very off-putting.
15:08
It was too salty.
15:11
And I would talk about the fact that
15:13
if you eat a lot of fat,
15:14
your tongue is going to be coated.
15:16
You're not going to even taste the true
15:18
flavors of what you're eating.
15:22
And right now in WIC,
15:24
when I tell the parents,
15:26
I don't want you giving your kids juice.
15:28
And one of the reasons is because every
15:31
single thing they eat after it is not
15:33
going to taste very good.
15:35
You drink juice and then you eat an
15:38
apple.
15:38
The apple tastes.
15:40
But if you just eat that apple without
15:42
having your mouth coated with sugar,
15:45
it tastes the amazing way an apple should.
15:49
So, you know, that's part of it.
15:51
When they started to understand that their
15:54
tastes were actually muted by the greasy,
15:57
salty food that they had associated with
16:01
comfort.
16:02
Right.
16:03
And then the other piece that I would
16:05
always ask them and I'll tell you a
16:07
little story about this was how did they
16:08
feel after I did some corporate wellness
16:11
work for a client and it was in
16:14
a manufacturing building.
16:17
And so there was just a break room
16:19
kind of area with partitions.
16:21
And I had just done a presentation.
16:23
And as I was cleaning up,
16:25
some two gentlemen who missed that
16:27
presentation but had seen me before come
16:30
in with their food and they've got it
16:32
around the backside so that I don't see
16:34
it.
16:34
They had gone to McDonald's and they
16:37
wanted to hide it from me.
16:39
And I said, don't you worry.
16:40
It's fine.
16:41
That's your body.
16:42
You're choosing those, you know,
16:43
that I said,
16:44
but I do have to ask you one
16:45
question.
16:46
And they said, OK.
16:48
And I said, well,
16:49
how do you feel after you eat it?
16:52
And I was expecting there was one guy
16:55
that was around thirty and the other kid
16:56
was maybe eighteen.
16:58
And the thirty year old said, oh, no,
16:59
no, no,
17:00
I don't eat this in front of my
17:01
kids.
17:02
And that's not what I asked him.
17:03
He said and the eighteen year old,
17:06
which I would have expect to say, good,
17:07
I love this food.
17:09
He said exactly what I paid for it.
17:12
And I said, excuse me.
17:13
He said two bucks.
17:16
He said,
17:16
that is what I feel like when I
17:18
eat this way.
17:19
And I said, OK.
17:22
I'll see you next month.
17:23
You know,
17:23
it's like because they just we kind of
17:27
have this idea that normal means not
17:30
feeling well.
17:32
Normal means food coma after normal means
17:36
greasy feeling.
17:38
And but when you don't have something to
17:40
compare it to,
17:42
that's you just don't know what you're
17:44
missing.
17:45
So I really try to do that to
17:49
explain the thing about taste sensitivity.
17:52
and change is a very important point i
17:54
think you know sometimes people look at
17:56
people like you or me that have been
17:58
doing this a long time and they have
18:00
the sense that we've chosen to live in
18:02
a monastery with restriction the truth of
18:05
the matter is i've never lost my love
18:07
of food i'm as much a foodie as
18:09
i've ever been it's just that i appreciate
18:11
the unbelievable
18:13
panorama,
18:14
the cornucopia of tastes and flavors that
18:17
are in whole plant foods.
18:19
And as you're making the point,
18:20
as people allow themselves to open up to
18:23
that,
18:24
they start tasting things that they
18:26
couldn't taste before.
18:27
Classic example is we'll have people come
18:29
off a water fast, for example,
18:32
where now there's been a whole
18:34
recalibration or rebooting of their
18:36
nervous system.
18:37
They'll have a piece of plain romaine
18:39
lettuce.
18:40
And they'll wax philosophical.
18:41
Oh, this letter.
18:43
Oh, my God.
18:44
Yes, absolutely.
18:48
that they couldn't even fathom before.
18:50
And it's hard for our audience to realize
18:52
that.
18:52
So people that are just making changes now
18:54
or coming from a different place,
18:57
understand that where you are now is not
18:59
where you will be.
19:00
And in fact,
19:01
you'll get to a place when you look
19:03
back,
19:04
you'll have a hard time believing that
19:05
that's where you once were.
19:07
And that's really a remarkable thing that
19:11
you're making a point of.
19:14
Go on, go ahead.
19:15
No,
19:16
I was just going to say that there's
19:18
actually science too,
19:20
for people who worry about the greens,
19:23
because we talk about eating greens,
19:25
that greens are life and they are,
19:27
but they're hard for a lot of people
19:29
because of the bitterness.
19:31
And so it scares a lot of people
19:32
away,
19:33
but they should know that there's research
19:35
to show the more greens you eat,
19:38
the more of a specific enzyme you produce
19:42
in your saliva and
19:43
that actually breaks down the bitter
19:46
components and makes those even more
19:48
palatable.
19:50
And you'll talk to people like us that
19:52
will crave greens.
19:54
I did not grow up craving greens when
19:57
I was little, but I love them.
19:59
So there's nothing in a way more typically
20:03
bitter.
20:04
than broccoli rabe, which I often crave.
20:07
So getting to that point where you're
20:09
craving those kinds of things and those
20:11
flavors have been really transformed in
20:14
your mindset in many ways and in your
20:17
body set in many ways.
20:18
If you allow yourself,
20:21
you can kind of get there.
20:22
Before we jump into the very important
20:25
aspect that you bring up about community,
20:27
I'm very curious about
20:29
your role and the idea of integrating
20:32
plant based education
20:36
within government programs like you've
20:38
been involved in.
20:39
The WIC program is kind of intriguing
20:40
because it's a program we know that is
20:43
government funded that attempts to bring
20:46
healthy food and nutrition education to
20:48
basically breastfeeding pregnant women,
20:51
infants and small children,
20:53
but yet you're still bucking kind of a
20:55
traditional system.
20:56
Talk about how,
20:57
because this has been a real big part
20:59
of your experience,
21:00
Talk about that interface of plant-based
21:04
nutrition and education with typical
21:07
government programs that are coming in
21:09
many ways from traditional orientation
21:11
with dairy and meat and so on.
21:14
Give us a little bit of your experience
21:15
with that because you've been so involved
21:17
with that for many, many years.
21:19
Yes, absolutely.
21:21
So I am honored to be a educator
21:26
in the WIC program.
21:28
I actually had a supervisory position and
21:31
I left it because I wanted to connect
21:33
with clients again.
21:35
I wanted all my time to be with
21:38
clients.
21:39
And so we do have pregnant and then
21:42
kids up till five.
21:43
And traditionally,
21:45
when people think of WIC,
21:46
they think of milk and cheese.
21:49
And that's basically it.
21:52
And formula, infant formula.
21:54
So what I was absolutely beyond excited
21:58
about was that there are plant-based
22:02
options baked in to those.
22:05
And WIC has never provided meat.
22:08
That's never been on the...
22:10
Now they've actually added some fish just
22:13
this past October.
22:14
But prior to that,
22:15
no meat products whatsoever.
22:18
But what's really neat is that WIC
22:21
requires...
22:23
nutrition education and it requires
22:26
one-on-one nutrition education.
22:28
So, and with WIC,
22:30
you can only get specific foods in
22:33
specific categories.
22:35
So what I found is that now, well,
22:39
and they've done this for a while,
22:40
they've provided soy milk and they've just
22:43
added an oat and pea protein blend for
22:47
a non-dairy option.
22:49
And they offer organic tofu.
22:52
And what is incredible is you can get
22:55
one pound of cheese or you can get
22:58
three pounds of organic tofu in its place.
23:01
So they've actually upped the benefit.
23:04
If you choose not to get the eggs,
23:06
you can get more legumes.
23:08
So every month there's legumes and the
23:12
grains are all whole grains and you can
23:15
choose intact legumes.
23:17
oatmeal and those types of options.
23:20
So it's amazing how many people I bring
23:25
knowledge to about the plant-based
23:28
options.
23:29
And there's one I will never, ever forget.
23:34
So she came in, I see,
23:36
as a dietician,
23:37
I see all the medical high-risk clients.
23:39
So everybody who's medically complicated.
23:43
And so I had a child who was
23:46
four,
23:46
I think she was like four years old
23:48
and three months.
23:49
And she had spina bifida obviously since
23:52
birth.
23:53
And so she always dealt with constipation
23:56
consistently to the point where they were
23:59
doing water enemas every single day.
24:03
And they were doing Miralax and that was
24:05
failing.
24:06
And so they were doing the water enemas
24:07
every day.
24:09
And so she's in her fourth year of
24:11
life
24:12
And they are trying to figure out how
24:14
they're going to work out kindergarten
24:16
because this child's so uncomfortable with
24:19
this constipation and this just it's not
24:21
going to work.
24:22
So they're trying to make plans to
24:25
homeschool this.
24:27
You know,
24:27
it's going to affect this little one.
24:29
And so we were doing an appointment and
24:31
I said,
24:32
have you ever thought about going dairy
24:35
free?
24:36
And the mom looked at me and said,
24:38
well, no.
24:40
I said,
24:40
I really think it might help with the
24:42
constipation.
24:43
And she said, no.
24:44
She said,
24:44
the doctor told us this is neurological.
24:48
This is because of the spina bifida.
24:50
This is not having anything to do with
24:52
diet.
24:53
And I said, okay,
24:54
do you want to try?
24:56
Because you can't be enjoying these enemas
24:58
and this child is uncomfortable all the
25:00
time.
25:01
So gave her that advice.
25:03
We switched her to the soy milk and
25:05
the tofu.
25:07
She left,
25:08
and then I didn't get to see her
25:10
for a few more months.
25:12
She came in three months later,
25:14
and I said, how's it going?
25:17
She said,
25:18
haven't used an enema since we left your
25:20
office.
25:21
Okay.
25:22
I still get goosebumps.
25:24
She said, I can't believe it.
25:27
She said she didn't want to make the
25:29
change because she was used to, you know,
25:31
whatever she was doing.
25:33
She said, but she wanted to try.
25:36
And she said maybe about a month in,
25:38
she was really wanting cheese.
25:40
Really?
25:41
She said, mom, she was just screaming.
25:43
I want cheese.
25:44
She said, okay, you can have cheese.
25:46
She gave her one serving of cheese.
25:48
And within a day and a half,
25:50
she was constipated again.
25:52
the little girl said, I'm done.
25:55
We're not doing cheese anymore.
25:57
And since then, never had any issues.
26:00
She had taken that Miralax one time after
26:03
she had the cheese.
26:05
This fundamentally impacted her life.
26:09
She got to go to kindergarten.
26:14
That's huge.
26:15
Let me ask you a question though,
26:16
because this comes up now if you think
26:18
about it.
26:18
Now, just recently, as you well know,
26:21
They've altered these dietary guidelines
26:23
again in an abusive, abusive fashion,
26:26
because while I applaud them for trying to
26:29
reduce ultra processed food,
26:32
they've made red meat,
26:33
full fat dairy and eggs a top priority
26:37
in this food chain.
26:38
Do you think that those government
26:40
recommendations now?
26:42
are going to actually compromise a program
26:44
like WIC because now they're going to be
26:46
pushing the idea that it's okay to eat
26:49
that dairy and load up on those eggs
26:51
and have more of those red meats.
26:53
Do you think that's going to start
26:54
affecting these programs in a negative
26:56
way?
26:58
I hope not.
26:59
I am livid.
27:01
Yeah, we all are.
27:02
It's a remarkably abusive approach.
27:06
And it's obviously vested interest.
27:09
Many people on that panel are being funded
27:12
by meat and dairy councils.
27:13
And instead of really playing the science,
27:16
which has been evidence-based for decades,
27:19
on the impact of animal-based products
27:21
related to obesity, diabetes, cancer,
27:24
heart disease.
27:26
This is going back to the fifties.
27:27
Remember back the old food,
27:30
those old food charts,
27:31
the two basic food groups, meat and dairy.
27:34
We've gone back to the nineteen fifties.
27:36
It's a ridiculous approach,
27:38
but I'm now concerned about these people
27:40
getting access to these food underserved
27:44
populations now as they shift these
27:46
guidelines.
27:48
I know I hope with all of my
27:50
heart that this is not going to go
27:52
in that direction when the dietary
27:54
guidelines came out the last time.
27:57
So in the two thousand twenty to two
28:00
thousand twenty five,
28:02
that was the first time that infants were
28:05
addressed.
28:06
And that was very interesting because I
28:10
knew what was going to happen.
28:11
Typically,
28:11
they were two years old and beyond.
28:14
But this was the first time they did
28:16
infants.
28:16
And I knew this was going to happen.
28:18
The meat industry,
28:20
the beef industry came in and said beef
28:22
should be baby's first food once they
28:26
start solid foods.
28:27
And they did an entire campaign.
28:30
Interestingly enough,
28:32
the WIC program did not respond.
28:35
The meaning their program did not start
28:39
giving meat.
28:40
they do not give meat to formula fed
28:44
infants until, well, ever.
28:47
So I guess now they're doing the fish,
28:50
but that starts at one year of age.
28:53
So the fact that that changed and they
28:55
didn't respond,
28:56
I am hoping that that's not where it's
29:00
going.
29:01
I really hope we stick with
29:03
the products that we provide right now and
29:07
don't go beyond because it,
29:10
if what's interesting though,
29:11
actually too,
29:12
is with this new change that they did
29:15
in October, they reduced dairy,
29:18
across the board,
29:19
all the milk is less now than they
29:21
ever used to give.
29:22
So we're going in the opposite direction.
29:25
And they gave more money for fruits and
29:28
vegetables in lieu of juice.
29:30
So the changes actually have been positive
29:33
that we've seen.
29:35
Ninety nine percent of the changes have
29:36
been positive that we saw with this last
29:38
iteration.
29:39
But I don't know now what is going
29:41
to happen in the future.
29:42
We have to get the word out.
29:44
And I'm doing everything I can to sting
29:47
it from the rooftops that we need to
29:51
feed our family plants.
29:53
And that, yeah,
29:55
that is the future health wise.
29:59
There's a big part of your work that
30:01
plays into one of the things that we
30:05
have now recognized as being very
30:07
important for human health.
30:09
And that is aside from the exercise and
30:12
activity and aside from the food and all
30:14
of that,
30:15
it's community connection and support.
30:18
We've come to see that as human beings,
30:20
that community sense is actually,
30:23
if you will,
30:24
a pillar of lifestyle medicine.
30:26
We can make that case.
30:27
And we know and you know that when
30:29
people go to retreats like mine or they
30:32
go to lectures or conferences,
30:35
what happens after that becomes incredibly
30:37
important because how are you going to
30:38
take it home?
30:39
How are you going to stay on track?
30:40
How are you going to have that ongoing
30:42
motivation?
30:43
So that's one of the reasons why we
30:45
created the NHA True North Community,
30:47
which is trying to do that.
30:49
These podcasts are part of that.
30:50
But you have a long history with your
30:52
foodie bar way of life online community of
30:55
doing just that.
30:56
So let's really focus on what you've
30:59
created because it's a remarkable
31:01
creation.
31:02
And let's talk about how that program that
31:04
you created,
31:05
what was the beginning of the Foodie Bar
31:08
way of life?
31:09
What was the beginning of the Foodie Bar
31:11
way?
31:11
And how do you integrate that community?
31:14
How do you bring in members to have
31:17
that ongoing health at home support?
31:20
Talk a little bit about all that.
31:22
OK, thank you.
31:24
I it is a huge labor of love.
31:26
And it started with my parents.
31:30
I brought my dad to McDougal's retreat in
31:34
two thousand twelve because he had a high
31:37
PSA level and it got his attention.
31:40
And I was telling him, Dad,
31:42
we've got it.
31:43
You know,
31:43
we've got to ditch the the meat products
31:46
and the dairy products from your diet.
31:48
And he was a little resistant because he'd
31:49
grown up as this Italian eating the
31:51
meatballs and the cheese.
31:53
And so I took him,
31:55
but he listened to a doctor.
31:56
Right.
31:57
And then afterwards, he's like, Tim,
31:58
are you knew it?
31:59
You knew all along,
32:00
but he had to hear it, you know,
32:01
from Dr. McDougall, who rest in peace.
32:05
Lots of love to you.
32:07
But it was a ten day live in
32:09
immersion similar to your retreat where
32:12
everything was done for you.
32:14
And so when we left, I said, OK,
32:17
dad, now it's on.
32:19
Now we get to go through.
32:20
You tell me everything you love and you
32:23
think you'll miss and I'll make it in
32:25
a plant based version that you'll love.
32:28
And I went up to their house and
32:30
I spent a few weeks doing that.
32:33
I was on summer break from teaching.
32:35
And so I could just devote my time
32:37
to that.
32:38
And we tested and we tweaked and we
32:40
came up with foods that could substitute
32:44
for what he was eating before that he
32:46
loved just as much or more.
32:49
And he had me at the ready on
32:53
the phone, on FaceTime, whatever,
32:55
to be able to talk through when they
32:58
hit a bump in the road,
33:00
when they didn't know what to do.
33:02
And my parents are very active.
33:05
And so this was interesting for them
33:07
because they were sixty one.
33:10
And now they are seventy seven and seventy
33:13
six and they are still plant based whole
33:16
food.
33:17
And they're typically either on a ladder
33:20
doing a garage door job or they're on
33:23
their motorcycle riding all over.
33:27
And that is because of the way they
33:30
eat.
33:31
And my parents will tell you all the
33:33
time,
33:33
they're on these rides with their friends
33:35
and everybody is at the restaurant and
33:38
everybody's ordering,
33:39
my parents are ordering and everybody,
33:40
oh my gosh, what did you get?
33:42
I want what you got because it looks
33:45
so darn good.
33:46
But that they had me in their back
33:49
pocket the whole time.
33:52
And so what I did the same with
33:55
my students,
33:55
I told you I started that club.
33:57
And so every week we would do cooking
33:58
demos and all kinds of things.
34:00
And when we had the shutdown,
34:03
all of my classes went online.
34:06
I had already taught online on television,
34:09
but then these were my face-to-face
34:11
classes that we were zooming.
34:13
And so I realized, oh my gosh,
34:16
this is so cool because I can talk
34:18
about something and say, wait,
34:20
let me go grab it from the kitchen.
34:22
And I could go grab it from the
34:23
kitchen and show them.
34:24
And they could be doing this from home.
34:26
They didn't have to drive anywhere.
34:27
They didn't have to get daycare for their
34:29
kids.
34:30
It was working.
34:31
They could show me their kitchen.
34:32
I could show them mine.
34:34
And so I thought this is the time
34:38
I am going to create a way to
34:40
stay connected with all of the people
34:43
who've seen me speak,
34:44
all of my students who want to have
34:47
that touch point and want that support.
34:50
So the foodie bar way of life was
34:54
what came out of it.
34:55
The foodie bar way was my book that
34:58
I published.
34:59
Oh my gosh.
35:00
Now,
35:02
And that is one meal, lots of options,
35:05
everyone's happy.
35:06
That's how I got my family to make
35:10
this move, my kids and husband,
35:13
because we needed to have options.
35:16
The kids were old enough where they were
35:18
starting to get picky.
35:19
And so I wanted to be able to
35:21
give them all kinds of options.
35:23
So we took that perspective and I made
35:29
that into bringing the book to life in
35:31
the foodie bar way of life.
35:33
So for example,
35:36
when you think about a loaded potato,
35:40
right?
35:41
So there's a loaded potato foodie bar in
35:43
the book and it gives you all kinds
35:45
of options for toppings,
35:47
actually different types of potatoes.
35:50
And so you can mix and match everything.
35:53
and then end up having a different version
35:56
of a potato multiple times, right?
36:00
And so what I decided to do with
36:02
the foodie bar way was bring those to
36:04
life.
36:04
So I do cooking demos based on all
36:07
of the foodie bars.
36:09
And then I started adding more foodie
36:11
bars.
36:12
And what was really fun was this happened
36:16
at a time when I was really embracing
36:19
the online piece.
36:20
And I thought,
36:22
Ooh,
36:23
this can be a version of my classes
36:26
because I always took a lot of pride
36:29
in bringing in more than just the
36:32
nutrition to my classes because we are
36:34
more than just what we eat.
36:36
What we eat is huge,
36:37
but there's also the mindset.
36:39
There's also the physical activity.
36:40
As you said, there's also the community.
36:43
And so I worked really hard to do
36:45
that in my classroom.
36:46
And I thought, wow,
36:48
in this online platform,
36:50
I can do that without all the structure
36:53
of the semester and the rules and just
36:57
the administration piece.
36:59
People can just come in and I can
37:01
do the fun stuff.
37:03
And so that's what we do.
37:05
So I have created,
37:08
it's too complicated in a good way to
37:10
explain right now.
37:12
There's so much to it,
37:14
but it is truly a place where it
37:17
is safe to learn and to experiment and
37:24
to find a way to live this life,
37:28
to make these decisions that truly loves
37:32
you back.
37:33
And you feel connected.
37:35
We do live events, but we also archive.
37:40
I've archived every single one of the
37:43
events that I've done,
37:44
every meal planning party,
37:46
every prep together, every Q&A session.
37:49
Last year,
37:50
I started teaching my nutrition course
37:53
from my courses from my college because I
37:56
developed them all.
37:57
So I am enhancing each one of them
38:00
and taking a deep dive
38:02
Every single time we do one,
38:05
people have these aha moments and they ask
38:08
questions and then we build from there.
38:11
And so if it's the equipment that you're
38:13
interested in, if it's the ingredients,
38:16
if it's actually just different ways to
38:18
prepare food.
38:19
We did an enchilada foodie bar last month.
38:25
And so thinking about what can you wrap
38:28
enchiladas in?
38:29
What can you fill enchiladas with?
38:31
How can you make sauces?
38:33
And I know that seems kind of silly
38:35
unless you're a foodie nerd,
38:36
but we have a blast.
38:40
And
38:41
It just it's amazing.
38:42
I underestimated how important that
38:47
community piece is because I knew I'm
38:51
always driven by value.
38:53
Make sure I'm providing enough value and
38:55
enough information.
38:57
But I had some members who were resistant
39:01
to join me.
39:02
And they had even told me,
39:03
I don't really need the community.
39:05
I mean,
39:06
I like the idea of the recipes and
39:08
searchable recipes and all this,
39:10
but the community piece,
39:12
they became the most active and they
39:15
absolutely loved it.
39:17
So it is a joy.
39:21
What I like about your goals and the
39:22
way you describe them is that you make
39:24
the point that knowing is not how
39:26
sustainable change actually occurs.
39:28
It occurs through this sense of community
39:31
and ongoing support and
39:33
even maybe more importantly,
39:35
that the journey needs to be some sense
39:38
of enjoyment, not just struggle.
39:39
Because sometimes I think we have this
39:41
idea that if I'm going to change,
39:43
it's going to be so difficult and painful.
39:45
And creating a sense of joy in the
39:48
process of sustainable change
39:51
I think is one of the fortes of
39:53
what you've done and what you continue to
39:55
do.
39:55
Let people know, if you can,
39:58
where they can find you if they want
39:59
to look you up or come to you.
40:01
What's the website that you want to share
40:03
with the audience?
40:03
Please say it twice so they can hear
40:05
it well.
40:06
Yes, thenutritionprofessor.com.
40:11
So that's where you go,
40:13
thenutritionprofessor.com.
40:15
You can see the book.
40:16
You can see The Foodie Bar Way of
40:18
Life.
40:19
I'm actually offering a whole month for
40:22
free, no credit card needed,
40:24
because it is life-changing.
40:30
It truly,
40:31
we underestimate the power of making these
40:35
choices our new normal.
40:37
Anybody can do something for a short time
40:40
and we all get motivated,
40:42
we all get inspired by documentaries and
40:48
even a wonderful meal out and think,
40:50
I can do this, I can do this.
40:52
But when it gets messy,
40:55
When you buy groceries and they go bad
40:58
in the drawer,
41:00
when you have travel that you're having to
41:04
do and you're thinking, yeah,
41:05
this works at home,
41:06
but I don't know how this works out.
41:08
When you have family members that are not
41:11
so supportive,
41:13
that's when you really struggle.
41:15
want this kind of a community because it
41:20
not only makes it joyful,
41:21
but it like you said,
41:23
it makes it sustainable.
41:25
This is not the kind of goal like
41:28
you don't make the goal to be plant
41:31
based and then like you just get there.
41:33
OK, I'm there.
41:35
This is truly a journey for the rest
41:38
of your life because every time you open
41:41
your mouth and put something in there,
41:43
there's an opportunity to make a choice
41:46
that either promotes your health or
41:51
slowly, sometimes quickly, destroys it.
41:54
And so we have to have a way
41:57
to be able to do that where we
42:00
look forward to eating and we look forward
42:02
to hanging out with friends and family
42:05
Being able to talk in one piece that
42:09
I think a lot of people think, oh,
42:10
online, it's going to be weird.
42:14
I didn't grow up with a phone in
42:15
my hand.
42:16
I mean, but I'm amazed.
42:19
And I think most people can testify to
42:23
this,
42:23
that when you have a phone call with
42:25
someone, it's great.
42:26
And when you do a video call with
42:28
someone, it's next level.
42:31
I mean,
42:32
when I do a FaceTime with my mom
42:34
and dad,
42:35
the difference between hearing their voice
42:37
and clicking on my sister and seeing that
42:39
face in real time is incredible.
42:43
And so when I see people on my
42:45
events and it's like, oh, my gosh,
42:48
how are you?
42:50
And they know how much I love them.
42:53
I mean,
42:53
I truly this is not a huge community.
42:56
I have it's very, very intimate.
42:59
And so
43:00
It's they actually feel like they're part
43:03
of the foodie bar family.
43:04
They call them that they they came.
43:07
My member said, we're foodie bar family.
43:09
He said, OK, that works for me.
43:13
So, yes, nutrition professor dot com.
43:17
You'll find me.
43:18
So as we wrap this up,
43:19
I can't thank you enough,
43:20
my special guest, Timree Hagenberger.
43:24
She gave you her site.
43:25
If you want to get more information,
43:26
learn more from her, please go there.
43:29
I want to thank everyone who joined us
43:30
today.
43:31
And I want to emphasize that this is
43:33
part of a new initiative that is a
43:36
new community program,
43:37
the marriage of the NHA and the True
43:39
North Health Center.
43:41
And this community will be providing just
43:43
that kind of community information and
43:45
support also.
43:46
That's at healthscience.org.
43:48
I urge you to join us and be
43:50
with us.
43:51
And I want to thank you for being
43:52
with us.
43:52
And I look forward to seeing you either
43:54
at the next episode or one of our
43:56
educational events.
43:57
Timmery, thank you so much.
43:58
I can't thank you enough.
43:59
Thank you.
44:00
Thank you so much, Dr. Sabatino.