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E35: Therapy Part Deux - When Therapy Is the Answer · The Junto Podcast

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Hello, America. Welcome to the Junto Podcast, where we promote the practical
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applications of critical thinking and bold creativity.
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I am your host, Edgar Mills. Thanks for joining us.
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Okay, folks, welcome back. This is episode 35.
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So I felt compelled to do a follow-up to my last episode.
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People who know me well know that I poo-poo on therapy a lot.
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I have very personal and very deep, very real issues with the whole system.
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But I'm a thoughtful guy, and I know that many, many, many people benefit from
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all the things that I poo-pooed on yesterday.
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So we're going to talk about some of those things.
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So I harped on the fact that me, but many like me, we reject mainstream traditional therapy.
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It doesn't click with us. We don't feel comfortable with it. We have trust issues.
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We don't have time. We can't afford it. We're just not willing to open up to strangers, etc.
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And all those things are true and they're all valid. And all the things I talked
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about, I will stand by them all day, every day.
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But now I'm going to flip the script a little bit and make a case for why some people don't.
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Do benefit from therapy specifically cognitive behavioral
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therapy and how it
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is a beneficial tool for even
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maybe some of the guys like i was referring to and i'll
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point out the veteran community with all the high suicide rate and things that
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obviously something isn't going well in the mental health capacity so first
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we're going to Well, I'll just get into it.
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So my argument that therapy was at best a temporary Band-Aid.
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That holds true for me, but it don't hold true for everyone.
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Cognitive behavioral therapy can align well with type A personalities or people
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who are action-oriented type folks.
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It's practical and goal-focused depending on the techniques.
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It's very individual to me, so I'm going to battle myself throughout this podcast trying to,
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to be objective here but but
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you can use little tools to to shift
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your thinking patterns and i use the
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word manipulate but yeah kind of manipulate your thinking patterns
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a little bit without this endless here's a
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new term i was i was introduced to by my friend
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who's a therapist navel gazing so what
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is navel gazing that's that's this
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sort of useless excessive of self-contemplation where you're just in your own
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mind and you're self-absorbed and you're just focused on all the negative things
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and why things are bad and wrong and you never make any problem or any steps to solve that problem.
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You're just, yeah, so the visual is you're just staring down at your navel looking,
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waiting for something to happen. I don't know.
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This endless cycle of Introspection that I talked about And that's what I warned
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of Navel gazing And my friend defined it very well for me And that's what he
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said He said, yeah, what you're talking about.
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Navel gazing is A word used for that A term used for that,
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But if you can not get trapped in that cycle and attack these cognitive distortions head-on,
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then you can build resilience and be in control of your own thoughts.
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So it's not so much that the therapy is useless, it's how you go about it, I think.
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So what I do want to point out is a handful of examples where therapy has worked.
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Now, there's millions of them. I'm just pointing out three sort of examples of type A types.
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And these are from real cases, but I've stripped them down to very generic,
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but they're from real cases.
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And one is, imagine this guy, he's like a high-achieving executive.
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Right in the corporate world and struggled with, like, well,
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struggled with stress for sure, but he was a perfectionist.
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And some of you out there, you know, yeah, there's...
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People also say OCD, but you're a perfectionist. Everything's got to be perfect all the time.
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And this guy was ambitious, you know, and competitive and always pushing for
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more and more and more and more.
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And he started experiencing burnout.
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He was putting so much pressure on himself to be perfect and have perfect outcomes
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that he was reaching burnout, man.
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And so he went to therapy and the type of therapy.
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So the technique was cognitive restructuring.
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And in doing this, he learned how to recognize when he was having these,
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you know, these thought, these perfectionist sort of overbearing thoughts.
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He learned how to recognize when that was happening in the moment.
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You know, and it was always like, hey, if I don't close, if I don't close the
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deal, you know, then, then I lack value, then I'm worthless if I can't close
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every deal, if I can't get it done, if I can't get it done.
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So he learned how to recognize when that
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was happening in his brain and through this cognitive behavioral therapy and
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he learned how to sort of do a little bit of analysis like objective analysis
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and looking at pat at past performance and past success and then think okay
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there have been set back backs before,
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and I have survived those setbacks and I'm still here. Right.
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And so he, he, he began to take a more balanced, balanced view of,
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And just reaffirm, like, yes, I have skill. I'm at the top of my game.
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One small slip doesn't define my whole career.
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And that's very real in the military, too, by the way.
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In the military, you're only as good as your last mess up.
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You could be a superhero, but you're defined by your last mess up.
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And that's not healthy, and it's not correct, but that's the way a bunch of CSMs like to look at it.
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A lot of former operators live in this perfectionist headspace where they're
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defined by their former status and their former exploits as operators, as combat soldiers.
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And then they have trouble feeling value out here in the civilian world because
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the civilian world doesn't recognize combat skill as valid.
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That's not a thing. And you might have some people who look at you and kind
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of like, oh, yeah, thanks for your service.
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And they appreciate that you're a tough guy and you've done some tough guy stuff. But...
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You know, they don't see combat as a net positive.
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Anyway, I digress. And then so, and he did some behavioral experiments to confirm this therapy.
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And that was, he would deliberately do different things, right?
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So he would delegate tasks and he would take short breaks that he normally wouldn't have, right?
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And then he would observe the outcomes and then realize that,
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hey, the world's not going to end if I don't get this thing done perfectly or
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get it done my way, what I consider perfect.
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Or if I let somebody else do it.
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You can delegate tasks down to your subordinates.
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That's the way it works.
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Yeah, that's just the way, if you try to take it all on yourself,
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you're going to get burnout. Yeah, you're going to.
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So by using that type of therapy and implementing that type of experiment,
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right, that technique, he had positive outcomes.
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And then he learned how to relax a little bit, chill the F out.
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It brought his anxiety down. And as a reflection of that, it boosted productivity.
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And then, you know, then he had a good work-life balance and everything was
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manageable. So there's a perfect example, type A go-getter, where this did work.
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And then the next example is a competitive athlete who was having,
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well, performance anxiety.
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He was a pro athlete and he was type A, obviously, and he would get these pregame
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jitters and then start having all this harsh negative self-talk,
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this negative self-criticism.
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And so he went to a therapist and they started doing, you know,
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thought challenging and reframing.
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That was, that's the way they, they, they worded that thought challenging and reframe, reframing.
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And this, this guy learned to identify this negative self-talk in the moment and then.
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Where much like the CEO, you know, if I make one mistake, one bad play,
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I'm done, I'm out, which in a highly competitive environment,
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sometimes that might be true.
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But then he looked at his past, right? Evidence.
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How's this gone in the past? And he realized that, look, I've always been at
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the high end of my game, and I've had mistakes in the past that I've bounced back from.
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But as you chase excellence, you tend to forget those.
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Well, you'll always remember the mistakes you made, but it's usually worse in
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your mind than it is other people's mind.
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But he realized, okay, yes, I've come back from worse.
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And he was able to focus on the next thing and not get dwell in the old thing.
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And so some of the techniques that he used was relaxation techniques and like
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muscle relaxation and visualization, right?
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So in the competitive shooting world, shooters do this all the time when you
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get up in preparation for a stage, right?
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Now me, I kind of like shake out my shoulders a little bit, take a couple of
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breaths, a little relaxation there, breathe deep.
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And I look and I visualize the stage and the order of attack.
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And it's a little ritual, kind of like when in Major League Baseball,
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you know, you get a batter up there and he wiggles his ass and stomps his feet
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and kicks dirt a little bit.
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He taps his bat on home plate like three times.
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Yeah, a little ritual. That's like a little relaxation technique.
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Then you take that final exhale, relax. All right, bring it, right?
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So that's what this guy learned how to do.
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And as a result, he performed, well, a little bit better even and minimized his mistakes.
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And even when he did make the mistakes, was able to manage those better.
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And he was more calm. And the more calm you are, the better you can thrive under pressure, folks.
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You can thrive under pressure the more calm you are.
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Now, I like to believe that I'm very calm under stress.
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Yeah, I think that's my happy space. I like it because inadvertently,
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I never learned this from a therapist, but yeah, I do little relaxation techniques.
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And then the final example is the obvious one, right?
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I'm a veteran, excuse me, a veteran who is dealing with PTSD and was kind of
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very emotionally closed off.
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Very stoic, very salty, hardened guy. And he was suppressing,
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I guess, whatever trauma he experienced via combat.
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And he was very hypervigilant, like here out in the civilian life, very hypervigilant.
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Now, hypervigilance is good when it's managed and it doesn't overwhelm your
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brain. You don't have irrational fears.
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There's nothing wrong with being hypervigilant.
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But if you're hypervigilant to the point of where it's irrational, right?
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Every place you go, you think is somebody's going to rob you or there's going
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to, you know, all that stuff.
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It's not sustainable. You'll, you'll, again, you'll get burnout.
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It's very taxing to live that way.
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So through cognitive, cognitive behavioral therapy, he, he was, he,
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he learned a little bit of, he structured, he was able to structure up his thoughts
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a little better and get on sort of a path to healing his traumatic internal
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wounds without feeling like it's weak or challenging his manhood, you know,
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because dudes have a problem with that. I have a problem with that.
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Now, I'm very comfortable in my manhood. I used to drive a smart car.
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Yeah, I don't mind that too much, but some guys, you know, you challenge their
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manhood and they get very stressed out.
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So the type of therapy that that guy was exposure therapy, right?
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So it was, you know, controlled, very gradual exposure to the trauma triggers,
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the things that made him think about it.
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And these either imagined scenarios or just very vivid,
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candid discussions about, you know, whatever trauma, but in a controlled environment
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so that he can still ultimately understand that, yeah, this is safe. This is a safe space.
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And ultimately, that's meant to expose you, re-expose you kind of over and over
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again to, in order to desensitize your reaction and build a tolerance to this trauma.
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Now, I poo-pooed that as just living, dwelling on and getting stuck in it. That's me.
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And that may have worked for them. Let's see. What was the technique,
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one of the techniques this guy used?
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Well, he did daily journaling. Yeah, daily journaling.
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And he would write down when he was having these, one of the commonalities with
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all of these is he learned to recognize when these thoughts were invading his brain.
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Right? He learned to recognize it. And then as he recognized it,
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he would take a moment to write these things down.
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The things that he, where when he, when he, when he was feeling vulnerable,
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he's like, okay, I'm this and that.
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And then you go back and evaluate where, well, were they accurate?
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You, you read that journal a week later and you're like, well,
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that, was that really the case?
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Yeah. And, and what that does is kind of, and what it did for him was kind of
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help him gain a little bit of emotional control,
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you know, to manage his emotions a little better and to realize,
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okay, this right here looks potentially dangerous to me, but let's examine the reality.
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Okay, I'm good to go.
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He writes it down. He analyzes it later. And what was the result for this guy?
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Well, one, he ended up sleeping better, which is awesome.
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Everybody likes a good night of sleep, right? And he was more present and built
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stronger family bonds because he was more present with his family.
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And then he started slowly but surely rebuilding, you know, a sense of control
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over his life, you know. So that's good stuff.
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All that's good stuff. In contrast to things, different techniques for different
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guys, different mentalities, different mindsets.
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We're going to revisit Carl Jung. Yeah, man. I love Carl Jung.
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Balancing your psyche, balancing for masculine, that's manly man, right?
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So Jung teaches us that wholeness, right,
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as an overall personality, our psyche, we have to integrate,
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and I'm going to use these specific words here, anima, which refers to our inner feminine side.
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We have to integrate that with our animus, which is our inner masculine traits.
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And according to Jung, every man and every woman have these traits,
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feminine and masculine traits within them, right?
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So we have to, and it's a balance. And we were made that way by what I believe to be a divine creator.
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So if we weren't meant to be balanced, we wouldn't have those traits within us.
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So we got to learn how to integrate those. And me, I have a real problem with
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softening up, you know what I mean? I'm a hard, salty, frigging dude. I have a hard time...
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Really connecting with my anima i
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know it's there and sometimes you know there's very rare moments my
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wife will point it out sometimes when i'm looking at my grandkid yeah i get
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soft around my my grandkids but for type a type dudes therapy it isn't shouldn't
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be about like you losing your edge,
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your toughness, your manly manliness.
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It should be more about just avoiding the traps that are out there that lead
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to repressed traumas and things like that, repressed anger.
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Because if it's repressed without actually having a command of it,
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it's going to jump back out later on.
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And Jung's process of individuation, it directly aligns with cognitive behavioral
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therapy in the sense of that we need to confront our shadow.
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You guys remember me talking about our shadow, our darkness.
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We need to confront it. We need to understand it. We need to own it.
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And by doing those things we'll be more resilient
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all right so one of
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the big gripes that you guys heard me on the on the last episode was that therapy
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is a luxury for the upper middle class and rich like literally it's a luxury
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lower middle class dudes don't have money or time to devote to that.
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Well, I'm going to address a little bit of that. I can't make more time.
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No one can make more time in your life except you if you're overwhelmed with
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life and work is the thing that.
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The number one thing in your life. But what we're going to explore here is that
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there are nonprofits out there that make mental wellness accessible,
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especially for veterans.
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Now I'm going to harp on the veteran stuff here and first responders,
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but regular guys, working guys, right?
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And these nonprofits, a lot of them out there, they have, you know,
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they blend the psychology and the, and like the mental wellness and the clinical
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care, but they blend it with like, you know, a sense of community.
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And then fitness is pretty big. And most of these, there's a,
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there's a fitness component. I mean, physical fitness component.
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I mean, nobody's training for the CrossFit games, right? But fitness is very
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important part of mental health as well.
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So the number one organization I'm going to highlight here is Warrior's Heart.
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And they do, They have a sort of like inpatient, they have like a compound, well, not a compound.
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What's the word I'm looking for? Like a retreat sort of thing.
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And, you know, they deal with like addiction and PTSD.
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And it was started by veterans. It's mainly focused on veterans,
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but I think they probably take other people as well.
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And they mix therapy and physical fitness and like, and it's a very no-nonsense setting, no frills.
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It's very no-frills sort of setting where they...
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And I think they do great, great work, great, great work.
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And you can get, and there's programs you can get on, you don't,
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that, you know, maybe insurance covers or like some pro bono stuff and people.
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And then the next one I'm going to talk about now I've had a good experience
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with Wounded Warrior Project, so I'm going to continue to tout them.
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Some people say that they're kind of mismanaged or whatever,
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but they do free counseling.
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They got peer support. They've got access to a lot of different things,
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different venues that they can get you on the right track.
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And they can focus on the mental aspect of that, the physical too.
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And there's, okay, there's others. I got three or four down here.
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But Warrior's Heart and Wounded Warrior, too, that just come on the top of the list that, yeah.
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So you can get help. You can afford it, right? But now the question is, do you have time?
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And if the mental health gets bad enough, guess what? I mean,
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you got to try to make time.
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Otherwise, you may be a ticking time bomb. Now, I hate to refer to veterans
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as ticking time bombs. That's a stereotype that I don't like.
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Because it's a stereotype. It's a caricature.
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And the movies don't help that. And all these stupid-ass TV shows that always
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have some out-of-control veteran who's trying to murder people or overthrow. Whatever.
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So, anyway. Moving on, moving on, moving on. So, I'm going to throw you a curveball here.
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It's not really a curveball for most of you. but well
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one therapy right what is therapy it's
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it's subjective for sure it's
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very individual for sure and it is just absolutely not one size fits all there
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is no generic fix for the mental issues are just as varied as it gets but some
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guys out there are drawn to spirituality.
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And they're looking for deeper meaning. Many guys, many people out there are
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looking for some deeper meaning, some deeper purpose.
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So these faith-based alternatives, should they be alternatives or should they be primary paths?
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What do you think? So you can.
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All of these components, there's a faith-based option for all of these,
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even with cognitive behavioral therapy.
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But number one is you can discover Jesus. Dive into the Bible.
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Seek out a faith mentor. You know, go find yourself a church.
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It don't have to be an uptight, clicky church that's like a mega church.
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There's one in Colorado Springs called a sanctuary.
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And hell, even the pastor was a former drug addict. Like there's some colorful
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people cruising around in that church.
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But they're all, hey man, they're looking for some spiritual connection.
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They're looking for some peace that I would offer to you this.
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There's no amount of therapy that's going to give you peace if you don't ask
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for it from a higher source.
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But yeah, find a mentor in the church.
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That'll, if nothing else, just
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help you get a deeper understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Yeah.
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There's tons of men's retreats, tons. All these churches all over America,
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they do these men's retreats.
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Some of them go to foreign countries to do missions.
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Some of them are here in national parks and other things.
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They do men's retreats and they do family retreats. They do all kinds of things.
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And you can go there and be around people who are maybe not searching the same
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path that you're searching on, but still looking for a deeper purpose, right?
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And by seeing these individuals and understanding some of their struggles,
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then it helps you kind of understand your own.
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And sharing your faith with someone else or someone sharing it with you,
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then, yeah, you can help build each other's capacity.
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And then you start to look at life's challenges a little bit different,
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less as obstacles and more as opportunities in accordance with God's plan,
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right? I say all the time that things happen for a reason.
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Well, I think that reason is what God's plan is.
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So that's one thing, is diving into it.
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And if you're out there feeling lost right now, if you're listening to this
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and you're one of those dudes out there just lost in the sauce and there is
27:03
no joy in the world and you've tried this, that, and the other, yeah, man,
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go dive into it. Learn the gospel of Jesus Christ.
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What's something else in the faith-based alternatives here? Prayer?
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Yeah. I know some of you, oh, prayer, whatever. Hey, man, what's prayer similar to in the secular world?
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Meditation. Yeah. So if you think yoga is good and you think being a yogi and
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following some Hindu frigging whatever they got going on, then why is prayer
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vastly different than that?
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You're just praying to Jesus Christ as opposed to an elephant.
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But it's not about necessarily that. It's about that stillness,
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that calming your mind and that stillness, right?
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And trying to put your antenna out there to take in what's God want me to do today.
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You might get nothing. And then you might have some profound epiphany.
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Or you might sit quietly in prayer, speak your mind, amen, and get up,
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walk out, and go. and you might have some epiphany out on the street,
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something may become so clear to you that you're like, what, why, how did I miss this?
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Or you may spend months not being able to see clearly, but it's out there.
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Just got to tune that antenna up.
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Yeah, look for that divine support through prayer.
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Many, many millions of people have calmed their demons.
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Yeah through divine support and what else now this doesn't necessarily require
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faith but what about just doing random acts of kindness volunteer.
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At some place, go deliver food to homeless little camp camps or things like
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that. There's all kinds of volunteer opportunities out there, folks.
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But what is that going to do for you? That gives you a focus on something else beyond yourself.
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And then that can help you build sort of an internal, like, well,
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one, being of service to others gives you an opportunity to see other people's
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circumstances and realize that yours ain't that bad.
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Because however bad you think you got it right now, somebody else has got it
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worse. I promise you that.
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Here in America, we're not even scratching the surface of some of the poverty
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and just pains and agonies and,
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bondages of third world countries.
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So selfless acts will help you see a different perspective.
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And that's in line with what Jesus teaches us to do anyway.
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And then it can also help you defeat, if you're out there and you feel like
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you're isolated, you're a loner, nobody understands, You don't have many friends
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or whatever, or you choose not to have many friends, right?
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Volunteering like that as a part of a sort of a bigger organization or something can help you.
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Kind of defeat that isolation because you're around other people and you'll
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build relationships and slowly
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start to, you might find somebody in a similar situation or whatever.
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And then the other thing is helping other people can really help you kind of build your self-worth.
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A lot of people who have problems out there mentally, well one,
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they don't love themselves.
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They find fault within themselves or they blame themselves.
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And, you know, you can't really love others if you can't love yourself.
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So a small step to helping you find some value within yourself is,
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yeah, helping other people.
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And I've said this on other podcasts, sometimes it might be a little bit It's
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selfish because it feels good to help other people.
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But the good news is it's selfish in a good way, in a righteous way. Yeah.
31:37
As long as you're doing it to help other people and not going out to seek that.
31:43
Feeling, right? Just like that dopamine or whatever it is you get when you have
31:49
some good feeling, you know, whatever.
31:52
So it can help you like start to value yourself a little bit.
31:55
Like, okay, I'm a value to other people now.
31:58
So I'm not totally worthless.
32:01
And then build from that, man. Yeah, there's a lot of ways.
32:05
So faith-based techniques to help you get right mentally.
32:11
And that's not to say you can't use therapy and cognitive behavioral therapy,
32:17
because there's plenty of psychologists out there who are faith-based guys who
32:24
have a foundation of faith in Jesus Christ and whatnot.
32:29
My friend, who's a therapist, is in fact a believer.
32:33
So, yeah, you can integrate that. Now, I believe faith-based stuff.
32:38
I believe that's standalone. I believe you can, if you're ready,
32:43
you can go and find peace there alone without any therapy.
32:48
But again, that's individual stuff. So, and that leads us into this.
32:53
At the end of the day, whether it's cognitive behavioral therapy or the insights
32:59
and philosophies of Carl Jung or some nonprofit resources out there,
33:05
or whether or not you go to the frigging psychic tarot card reader or the hypnotist
33:11
or if you go all in for Jesus.
33:15
The change has to start with you and it ends with you.
33:19
None of those, no technique will work.
33:23
No therapist, no spouse, no pastor or no lover, no mentor, or not even your
33:33
very best friend in the whole wide world can do it for you.
33:36
So you alone have to commit to change what needs changing.
33:42
But once you've made your mind up to do it, you can do it with any of these tools.
33:48
So hold yourself accountable and then make the decision to be healthy. Is that too much?
33:55
So that was it, folks. I felt compelled to...
33:59
To put up a supplement to the previous episode because I am salty and I come
34:06
off as salty sometimes and I have my own personal issues with therapy,
34:10
but I seek therapy through other means,
34:13
because I am maybe, maybe almost an individualist to a fault.
34:20
So nevermind me. That's, that's my thoughts, folks.
34:24
So I just wanted to put that out there just to give the other side of the coin
34:28
of what I was speaking on, I think however you achieve it, you still have to
34:35
make the decision to go after it. And then you still have to stick with it.
34:39
However you achieve mental wellness, there's just so many avenues,
34:45
so many ways to approach it.
34:49
But your resolve has to be strong and you have to stick with it.
34:53
And ultimately, I'm going to go ahead and put this out there.
34:56
Ultimately, at the end of the day, I think faith needs to be a strong start
35:03
point or foundation for that.
35:05
Because I think without the faith, you're just building on a false foundation.
35:10
So there's my opinion on it, folks.
35:13
All right. As I said, let's see.
35:16
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send go.com backslash help a homie fund please consider giving to that especially
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during the holidays when there's people out there not getting that good pecan
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pie all right folks thanks very much for listening i hope this helped balance
35:50
out a little bit of what i was talking about.
35:53
And please give me your feedback. Yeah, please give me your feedback.
35:56
I'm eager to hear it. I appreciate you all for listening. Be safe. Happy Thanksgiving.