Latest / The Right Time with Bomani Jones / Pat Forde on College football's Playoff Crossroads, Notre Dame's frustrations, Private Equity Problems | 12.10

Transcript

Pat Forde on College football's Playoff Crossroads, Notre Dame's frustrations, Private Equity Problems | 12.10 · The Right Time with Bomani Jones

0:05
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right time. A wave original.
0:09
Speaker 1: My name is Beaumont Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you
0:11
Speaker 1: get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like,
0:15
Speaker 1: rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only
0:17
Speaker 1: give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are
0:19
Speaker 1: a hater. It is that time of week where you
0:21
Speaker 1: have a guest join us from SI.com. My man, Pat Forty.
0:25
Speaker 2: How are you, sir? Doing well, Beaumont. Crazy times in
0:28
Speaker 2: college sports here.
0:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, but this has to be your best weekend of
0:31
Speaker 1: the year, right? Like after grinding for basically three straight months,
0:35
Speaker 1: now it's just Army, Navy, and the Heisman.
0:37
Speaker 2: I tell you what, you are exactly right. This week
0:41
Speaker 2: feels a little bit like a holiday, but everybody else
0:44
Speaker 2: is keeping us busy complaining with whatever the committee came
0:47
Speaker 2: up with for the playoff, and there's always stuff to
0:49
Speaker 2: talk about.
0:51
Speaker 1: So it's interesting with this playoff, and I think... They
0:54
Speaker 1: don't really make them like you anymore in the sense
0:56
Speaker 1: that you cover football and basketball at the collegiate level.
0:59
Speaker 1: And one thing I do think is interesting is that
1:01
Speaker 1: there is an understanding for the NCAA basketball tournament that
1:05
Speaker 1: you have to let some of the smaller schools in
1:07
Speaker 1: in the name of inclusion. Um, the example I'd use
1:10
Speaker 1: before you and I used to talk about this many
1:12
Speaker 1: years ago, the Indiana high school state basketball tournament, right?
1:15
Speaker 1: And like the dynamic of not everybody thinks they're going
1:18
Speaker 1: to win, but you get everybody in, but it feels
1:21
Speaker 1: a little different with football because you know, these guys
1:23
Speaker 1: are going to get their teeth kicked in. Like we
1:26
Speaker 1: see it happen early in the year.
1:27
Speaker 2: All the time.
1:27
Speaker 1: We don't really see upsets of good teams versus small schools,
1:31
Speaker 1: which you do see in basketball from time to time.
1:34
Speaker 1: I have seen the argument made. I think Joe Klatt
1:36
Speaker 1: said this, that the only reason the small schools are
1:38
Speaker 1: there is to avoid litigation, to which the answer is, duh.
1:43
Speaker 1: But do you think, like, I guess, aesthetically, I don't
1:45
Speaker 1: know if aesthetically is the right word, but just kind
1:47
Speaker 1: of for the ethos of what this is, is it
1:49
Speaker 1: necessary to have the James Madisons of the world have
1:53
Speaker 1: the opportunity to make this tournament?
1:55
Speaker 2: I think it is. You know what? I'm a bit
1:58
Speaker 2: of a populist in this, and... I have always loved
2:01
Speaker 2: that element of the NCAA basketball tournament, is that it
2:04
Speaker 2: is an all-comers tournament, and you do get your chance,
2:07
Speaker 2: and you're all members of NCAA Division I, or in
2:11
Speaker 2: this case, the Football Bowl Subdivision, the FBS. I think
2:15
Speaker 2: there needs to be representation for those teams and to
2:18
Speaker 2: give them a shot. And generally speaking... Yeah, they don't
2:22
Speaker 2: fare that well. But I will say, all right, Tulane
2:26
Speaker 2: beat USC a couple of years ago in the Cotton Bowl. Now,
2:30
Speaker 2: USC's level of motivation may be questionable, but there are
2:35
Speaker 2: some programs that are pretty good at that level. James Madison,
2:38
Speaker 2: Tulane are the two that are in this year's tournament.
2:41
Speaker 2: Last year, Boise State was not completely blown off the
2:44
Speaker 2: field by Penn State. They also had Ashton Genting, who
2:46
Speaker 2: was certainly not your average Mountain West player. So I'm
2:50
Speaker 2: in favor of it. Football, it is so bizarre. Like, yes,
2:54
Speaker 2: in basketball, people love the Cinderella's and football, they hate them.
2:57
Speaker 2: They don't even like the idea or the concepts. Like, no,
2:59
Speaker 2: get out of our tournament. We want all the big
3:02
Speaker 2: brands and all the power conferences. It's like, what is
3:06
Speaker 2: wrong with giving a couple spots like every other sport
3:09
Speaker 2: to people from outside the mainstream?
3:12
Speaker 1: Well, also, are we forgetting that last year in the
3:16
Speaker 1: first round of the tournament, the big boys who played
3:19
Speaker 1: road games in the first round got to ask his
3:21
Speaker 1: kick the exact way that James Madison is probably going
3:24
Speaker 1: to get theirs.
3:25
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I was there to see Tennessee get blown out
3:28
Speaker 2: of the horseshoe, um, by, by Ohio state. So in
3:32
Speaker 2: the snow, we will hear it. We will hear it all.
3:35
Speaker 2: They don't belong when, when James Madison loses by 21
3:38
Speaker 2: or more, but, uh, We've seen this run. We've seen
3:41
Speaker 2: this movie before with power conference teams.
3:44
Speaker 1: That's my criticism of this is that, or the existence
3:47
Speaker 1: of the tournament at this scale is that the variance
3:50
Speaker 1: or the difference between the number five school and say
3:53
Speaker 1: the number 12 school is really, really wide, right? Especially
3:57
Speaker 1: once you start adding home field, into the equation. Hey, hey, hey, man.
4:03
Speaker 1: This is going to happen, I think, probably every year, right? Like,
4:06
Speaker 1: I think we've got Texas A & M, Miami seems
4:09
Speaker 1: compelling on paper, but we talked about this on Monday.
4:14
Speaker 1: Mike Elko versus Mario Cristobal. That's the Dale Brown versus
4:18
Speaker 1: Bobby Knight of this situation. Like, I don't think that
4:22
Speaker 1: one's going to be close. Like, chances are everybody's going
4:24
Speaker 1: to get their doors blown off in that round.
4:26
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. I think that's highly likely. And, you know,
4:29
Speaker 2: we see it in the NFL. I mean, a lot
4:31
Speaker 2: of the first-round NFL games are blowouts. I'm wearing a
4:35
Speaker 2: Denver Bronco hat right now. They got destroyed by the
4:38
Speaker 2: Bills last year. There was a wide variance there. So...
4:42
Speaker 2: You know, people throw up their arms when it comes
4:45
Speaker 2: to college football, though, because all of the Blue Bloods
4:48
Speaker 2: want to be taken care of all of the time. Yeah.
4:51
Speaker 1: Now, I'm going to ask this about James Madison because
4:53
Speaker 1: I haven't paid that much attention to this team. Their
4:56
Speaker 1: head coach will be the head coach at UCLA next year.
4:59
Speaker 1: But it's worth noting that James Madison is kind of
5:01
Speaker 1: sort of in this tournament twice because Indiana is full
5:05
Speaker 1: of dudes that went to James Madison, yet James Madison
5:07
Speaker 1: somehow recovered and got good enough to make it to
5:09
Speaker 1: this tournament.
5:10
Speaker 2: It's incredible. Like James Madison's one of the ultimate success stories, right?
5:14
Speaker 2: Because as you said, when, when Kurt Cignetti left JMU
5:20
Speaker 2: for Indiana, he took everything but the last speck of
5:23
Speaker 2: who hash, man. I mean, he took like 12 players,
5:25
Speaker 2: took all the coaches and, And James Madison had to
5:28
Speaker 2: rebuild on the fly and Bob Chesney did it. And
5:31
Speaker 2: he is the same guy to a degree as Kurt Cignetti.
5:35
Speaker 2: I mean, if you look at his track record, he
5:37
Speaker 2: was at Salve Regina, which is like NAIA and then
5:40
Speaker 2: moved his way up D3, D2, same way Cignetti did
5:44
Speaker 2: through the ranks. These are guys that have proven they
5:46
Speaker 2: can win at a lot of places with a lot
5:48
Speaker 2: of players. And I did, I saw James Madison play
5:52
Speaker 2: early in the season in person against Louisville and They've
5:55
Speaker 2: got some personnel. I mean, they are not without players.
5:59
Speaker 2: That's for sure. Now, again, can they match Oregon's speed?
6:03
Speaker 2: That's probably going to be an issue. But Bob Chesney's
6:05
Speaker 2: done a hell of a job there.
6:07
Speaker 1: Also, Dan Lanning is the sort of psycho that might
6:10
Speaker 1: see this as a way to like, I wonder if
6:11
Speaker 1: we can score 75. What do you guys think?
6:14
Speaker 2: Yeah. Somebody put it this way to me about him.
6:18
Speaker 2: He's the kind of guy who likes pulling wings off
6:20
Speaker 2: of flies. Doesn't mind a little torture.
6:25
Speaker 1: Do you think he's going to wind up, by the way,
6:26
Speaker 1: being the first guy to fully realize at Oregon that
6:30
Speaker 1: this is actually maybe a destination job and you should
6:32
Speaker 1: probably just ride this out?
6:35
Speaker 2: Phil Knight's helping him realize that. He has a personal
6:39
Speaker 2: contract with him that basically has made him almost untouchable
6:43
Speaker 2: in the job market. And so between that and, yeah,
6:48
Speaker 2: I don't think Lanning's the type personally where he's like,
6:51
Speaker 2: I need a new job every three years anyway. But
6:54
Speaker 2: you combine that and you combine the Phil Knight situation,
6:57
Speaker 2: and I think Dan Lanning, he's rebuffed everybody quickly and
7:00
Speaker 2: just said, this is where I'm going to be.
7:02
Speaker 1: All right, now, we went around to these other guys.
7:04
Speaker 1: I tried to start this with people that are actually
7:06
Speaker 1: in the tournament. The big story is the team that
7:09
Speaker 1: is not, and it is Notre Dame who– I think
7:12
Speaker 1: they have a fair gripe. If we were better than
7:14
Speaker 1: Miami last week, I don't really understand how we're not
7:16
Speaker 1: better than Miami this week, regardless of how you came
7:19
Speaker 1: to that conclusion, but they're out and they did a
7:22
Speaker 1: very Notre Dame thing. And I think that younger people
7:24
Speaker 1: don't realize this every now and then Notre Dame just
7:27
Speaker 1: decides they're too good for a.
7:29
Speaker 2: Bowl game, right?
7:30
Speaker 1: All the way through 1970, they did it every year. Um,
7:33
Speaker 1: but there was a time where they were too good
7:35
Speaker 1: to go to the independence bowl. And quite honestly, so
7:37
Speaker 1: was everybody else. Um, This time they said, is that
7:40
Speaker 1: called the Pop-Tarts Bowl? Nah, we're not going. I mean,
7:47
Speaker 1: they're getting a lot of hell for this. It's understandable
7:50
Speaker 1: that they are. What is your read on this?
7:52
Speaker 2: So I have multiple reads on this, if you'll indulge me.
7:57
Speaker 2: First of all, yes, the committee, I thought, just screwed
8:00
Speaker 2: this up eight ways from Sunday. And I think that's...
8:04
Speaker 2: I have less problem with Miami being in over Notre
8:06
Speaker 2: Dame because I think they should be, and I think
8:08
Speaker 2: they should have been ahead of them all along, or
8:11
Speaker 2: at least in the last several weeks. Their ridiculously arcane,
8:16
Speaker 2: convoluted protocol kept them from comparing them head-to-head until the
8:21
Speaker 2: last minute. But the other part of this is Alabama
8:25
Speaker 2: getting this remarkable free pass of you know, go moving
8:28
Speaker 2: ahead of Notre Dame based on a bad win over Auburn. Well,
8:31
Speaker 2: it's hard to win at Auburn. No, it's not. Not
8:33
Speaker 2: this year. And then losing by three touchdowns in the
8:37
Speaker 2: SEC championship game and having no penalty for that whatsoever.
8:41
Speaker 2: So the committee boxed themselves in with this stupid weekly
8:44
Speaker 2: TV show, which does nobody any good other than ESPN
8:48
Speaker 2: to say, thank you. Thank you for people watching and
8:50
Speaker 2: give us ratings. It, It does, it locks the committee
8:54
Speaker 2: into illogical stands that they then have to undo late.
8:58
Speaker 2: All that said, yes, this is Notre Dame being precious
9:01
Speaker 2: Notre Dame. And it is, I've been insulted to a
9:07
Speaker 2: degree by the stances that they have taken here. How
9:11
Speaker 2: dare the ACC attack us? Well, you know what? The
9:16
Speaker 2: ACC has a family member Miami, your extended family. Family
9:24
Speaker 2: always wins over extended family. That's the way these things go.
9:28
Speaker 2: And the only way you get Miami in is one
9:31
Speaker 2: direct comparison. So you've got to hit that point, right?
9:35
Speaker 2: That's the hole you run through is Miami beat Notre Dame.
9:39
Speaker 2: So that's what we've got to hammer down. Now, showing
9:41
Speaker 2: that game 13 times on the ACC Network may be excessive.
9:45
Speaker 2: May be excessive. Notre Dame's point was well taken there.
9:49
Speaker 2: But come on, man. Somebody was going to get left out.
9:53
Speaker 2: There were three teams clustered right there together. One of
9:57
Speaker 2: them was going to be left out. It's Notre Dame.
10:00
Speaker 2: Dame and Notre Dame can't handle it.
10:02
Speaker 1: So I have thoughts on Notre Dame, generally speaking.
10:06
Speaker 2: Right.
10:07
Speaker 1: And I think it's fair game to say this year,
10:10
Speaker 1: as I know you, but you grew up rooting for
10:12
Speaker 1: Notre Dame.
10:13
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah.
10:15
Speaker 1: We have to appreciate about Notre Dame. And since my
10:17
Speaker 1: mother is listening to this, I will alter the terminology,
10:20
Speaker 1: but everybody will understand what I mean. Notre Dame, a
10:24
Speaker 1: bad one, right? Notre Dame, a bad one. Notre Dame
10:27
Speaker 1: been a bad one for a very long time, right? Now,
10:30
Speaker 1: Notre Dame ain't been what Notre Dame was in a
10:33
Speaker 1: very long time. But in her mind, Notre Dame is
10:37
Speaker 1: still that bad one. Like people who have to understand this,
10:40
Speaker 1: Notre Dame has not won a national championship ever. in
10:43
Speaker 1: 37 years okay it's been that long it's been I
10:49
Speaker 1: would argue 30 since they were a real contender they
10:51
Speaker 1: went to that BCS championship game against Alabama but I
10:54
Speaker 1: remember it was over before I got off the plane
10:56
Speaker 1: at halftime that year right but a bad one is
11:00
Speaker 1: a bad one forever and will always see herself as
11:03
Speaker 1: a bad one and so they have this situationship with
11:07
Speaker 1: the ACC right Hey, we come in, we play five
11:10
Speaker 1: games a year against your teams, and it's good for
11:13
Speaker 1: you because some of you don't sell your games out, right?
11:17
Speaker 1: You'll sell out Wallace Wade Stadium when we show up.
11:21
Speaker 1: Because they don't get a bad one in town that
11:22
Speaker 1: often when they come down here.
11:24
Speaker 2: Now, do they? Right.
11:25
Speaker 1: The thing about a bad one is bad one is
11:28
Speaker 1: not expected to be treated fairly. Bad one is expected
11:31
Speaker 1: to be treated like she is special because it has
11:33
Speaker 1: always been the case. They play by different rules.
11:36
Speaker 2: Right.
11:37
Speaker 1: And they are no matter what anybody says, they're the
11:39
Speaker 1: baddest one that college football has ever truly had. Like
11:42
Speaker 1: it didn't endure for Miami or Florida State once they
11:44
Speaker 1: stopped being good. It is in door for Miami, no
11:47
Speaker 1: matter how, I mean, for Notre Dame, no matter how
11:50
Speaker 1: mediocre they were. So they had this deal with the
11:53
Speaker 1: ACC and the way Notre Dame sees it, the ACC
11:57
Speaker 1: is the one that's getting a favor done for them, right?
12:00
Speaker 1: They're like, we let you come onto our NBC platform, right?
12:04
Speaker 1: When you come play against us, they're like, hey, we're
12:06
Speaker 1: doing this for you. And then when it comes down
12:09
Speaker 1: to it, you don't, what do you mean you don't
12:11
Speaker 1: want to do this for us? Like you'd rather do
12:14
Speaker 1: something for your own? than to do something for us.
12:17
Speaker 1: And to everybody else, this makes perfect sense. But to
12:19
Speaker 1: the bad one, she's like, no.
12:20
Speaker 2: That's not.
12:21
Speaker 1: What do you mean? This isn't how this works. And
12:25
Speaker 1: so now they stand and they look around and they're like,
12:27
Speaker 1: you know what? We ain't going to no Pop-Tart Bowl.
12:30
Speaker 1: We was going to play. Even though the rest of
12:33
Speaker 1: us knew this committee is unwieldy and you should be
12:35
Speaker 1: ready for everything, Bam was like, ain't going to say
12:37
Speaker 1: no to us. We going to go, and we're going
12:40
Speaker 1: to play for it. And then they're not. And the
12:42
Speaker 1: one place where I cut them slack for not going
12:44
Speaker 1: to play the Pop-Tarts Bowl is I don't know how
12:47
Speaker 1: many of their players were going to actually play in
12:48
Speaker 1: this game, and we have seen it. It's hard to
12:52
Speaker 1: dial these guys up. Florida State, who has not recovered,
12:56
Speaker 1: from that game that they did not show up for
12:59
Speaker 1: after they didn't make the playoff. That's where I cut
13:02
Speaker 1: them some slack, but we just have to, we can't
13:03
Speaker 1: expect Notre Dame to act like the rest of the girls, man.
13:06
Speaker 1: They just not.
13:09
Speaker 2: Your point is very well taken. Yes, they are accustomed
13:12
Speaker 2: to a great deal of sucking up and fawning and
13:16
Speaker 2: preferential treatment. And to a large degree, they've earned it, right?
13:20
Speaker 2: They were able to go independent and make it work.
13:23
Speaker 2: And everybody else, if they could, would do it too.
13:25
Speaker 2: I think there's a couple others that could pull it off. Texas,
13:28
Speaker 2: Michigan maybe or something. But Notre Dame has done it
13:32
Speaker 2: forever and made it work. And when you can do
13:34
Speaker 2: that and then, yes, when you get the ACC to say–
13:38
Speaker 2: for as long as they did.
13:39
Speaker 1: Yes, whatever you want.
13:41
Speaker 2: Fine. Whatever you want. Just play our teams. We'll do it.
13:44
Speaker 2: And all of a sudden now, the ACC is going,
13:46
Speaker 2: campaigning against you. It is an affront to their sensibilities,
13:51
Speaker 2: let's say.
13:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, Notre Dame was like, Notre Dame don't
13:54
Speaker 1: know what anything costs. Right? Notre Dame, Notre Dame, Notre
14:00
Speaker 1: Dame's like, I don't leave the house with my own money.
14:03
Speaker 1: What are you talking about? I'm going to show up
14:05
Speaker 1: and somebody's going to pay for my drinks. At every turn,
14:11
Speaker 1: it has happened to.
14:11
Speaker 2: Be the case.
14:12
Speaker 1: Now, it's interesting because I think, yes, they've been good
14:16
Speaker 1: to close out the year. Their athletic director, and I
14:19
Speaker 1: don't know who would sit him on this suicide mission
14:21
Speaker 1: to make a fool of himself in every interview. He
14:24
Speaker 1: said that they played one of the most impressive 10-game
14:27
Speaker 1: streaks in the history of college football. And I feel
14:29
Speaker 1: like I would have heard more about it if that
14:31
Speaker 1: was what was really going on.
14:32
Speaker 2: You think? Yeah.
14:33
Speaker 1: I mean, you think everybody involved in this doesn't want
14:37
Speaker 1: Notre Dame in their money-making tournament?
14:39
Speaker 2: Of course, of course. The history of the sport, they
14:43
Speaker 2: beat USC. That's it. That's it. And I was there.
14:47
Speaker 2: They beat them by 10 points. It was fine. But
14:49
Speaker 2: they also barely beat a terrible Boston College. They beat
14:53
Speaker 2: a terrible Purdue. They beat a terrible Arkansas. They beat
14:55
Speaker 2: a terrible Syracuse. What are we talking about here other
14:59
Speaker 2: than just the hyperbole involved there? And that's the problem. Again,
15:04
Speaker 2: to your point, we didn't see this coming because why
15:07
Speaker 2: would we see this coming? Because we're Notre Dame. all
15:10
Speaker 2: of a sudden you get this disproportionate umbrage on the
15:14
Speaker 2: other side and this hyperbole and this drama. I can't
15:18
Speaker 2: believe they've done this to us. It's like, oh my God,
15:21
Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
15:22
Speaker 1: And they've decided to spite the ACC, which a conference
15:27
Speaker 1: that has been highly disrespected, at least they would feel
15:29
Speaker 1: this way, right? Just in the way everything is gone.
15:32
Speaker 1: Their champion is being treated like they don't even like...
15:36
Speaker 1: They're being treated like they're the sixth out of the
15:38
Speaker 1: group of five, basically. Like, I think that's the way
15:40
Speaker 1: the conference, you know, they put themselves in a bind
15:43
Speaker 1: with that tiebreaker. But hey, I think the same way
15:46
Speaker 1: you have to feel about group of five, I also
15:47
Speaker 1: think that conferences are supposed to matter and winning a
15:50
Speaker 1: conference should matter. That's my take on their end of it.
15:56
Speaker 1: But also, when they look at the way that Notre
15:59
Speaker 1: Dame is doing this, Notre Dame is basically spiting them
16:02
Speaker 1: in ESPN by saying, we're not going to go to
16:04
Speaker 1: your bowl game, right?
16:05
Speaker 2: We're just not.
16:06
Speaker 1: Nah, put somebody else in there. See how that goes.
16:09
Speaker 1: And I wonder how this goes in the future for
16:11
Speaker 1: them because they, the athletic director said that he felt
16:13
Speaker 1: there was irreparable damage done with their relationship with the ACC,
16:16
Speaker 1: which seems like crazy talk. You guys will be fine.
16:19
Speaker 2: Totally. But that, that was an interesting phrase that he
16:22
Speaker 2: has repeated many times. That's like legal phrasing. Like we,
16:27
Speaker 2: we're setting up to sue your ass here. You know,
16:31
Speaker 2: as you point out, like, Who hasn't sued the ACC lately?
16:34
Speaker 2: All right, Florida State did. Clemson did. Everybody within the
16:38
Speaker 2: ACC is mad at the ACC, it seems. So this
16:41
Speaker 2: is kind of part of the turmoil that goes with
16:43
Speaker 2: that league. But the phrasing there, I thought that was
16:47
Speaker 2: very aggressive. And he tamped it down a little bit yesterday.
16:50
Speaker 2: He did a press conference from campus. And he said,
16:54
Speaker 2: he was asked, can the relationship heal? And he said, yeah,
16:57
Speaker 2: anything can heal. You know, I'm not here to be dramatic. Oh, really?
17:01
Speaker 2: You know, but it'll take a while, I believe he said. So,
17:06
Speaker 2: but there's going to be some interesting times, especially when
17:09
Speaker 2: Jim Phillips, when the college playoff committee meets, which is
17:13
Speaker 2: the commissioners plus Pete Bavacqua, the Notre Dame AD, they
17:16
Speaker 2: meet at the championship game. And we'll get those two
17:19
Speaker 2: in a room and we'll get Big 12 Commissioner Brett
17:22
Speaker 2: Yarmark who came out and ripped Pete Bavacqua last night.
17:26
Speaker 2: This is going to be some spicy times as these
17:28
Speaker 2: people figure out and Notre Dame decides how much this
17:31
Speaker 2: power flex has caused backlash or whether the ACC should
17:35
Speaker 2: bow down to them further.
17:37
Speaker 1: How often does the ACC look at itself and just
17:41
Speaker 1: simply say, Miami was supposed to be good?
17:46
Speaker 2: Right.
17:46
Speaker 1: Like they've gotten since Florida State joined the conference in what, 1993,
17:50
Speaker 1: they've gotten three national championships out of Florida State. They're
17:53
Speaker 1: not the Florida State now that they were. But Florida
17:55
Speaker 1: State wrote like elevated the level of play for the
17:58
Speaker 1: whole conference once they're there. Like, I mean, they did
18:01
Speaker 1: all that. The plan for them when they expanded was
18:04
Speaker 1: we were adding Miami and a pretty good Virginia Tech.
18:07
Speaker 1: But more importantly, we were adding Miami and we would
18:10
Speaker 1: have two tentpole national powers that will legitimize us as
18:15
Speaker 1: a football conference. And it never happened. It's been over
18:18
Speaker 1: 20 years and it never happened. It is amazing that
18:23
Speaker 1: they got Miami just when it.
18:25
Speaker 2: All went away. Yeah, no, it really is. The timing
18:30
Speaker 2: ended up couldn't have been worse. you know, for Miami
18:32
Speaker 2: to just fade off and, and have never been what
18:35
Speaker 2: they had been for from 1983 until 2001. I mean,
18:41
Speaker 2: that was the program in college football and you're right.
18:45
Speaker 2: I mean, like it made sense. This was a, this
18:48
Speaker 2: was like a draft that made perfect sense on paper.
18:51
Speaker 2: You drafted the right teams and you've got Florida state
18:54
Speaker 2: and you've got Miami, you got Clemson and, and it
18:57
Speaker 2: just hadn't worked out. Clemson ended up basically saving the
19:00
Speaker 2: conference in the last 10 years here. But it has
19:03
Speaker 2: been kind of shocking that Miami has never been able
19:07
Speaker 2: to get itself fully back together. Till maybe now, but
19:10
Speaker 2: I remain unconvinced that they're going to win a national
19:14
Speaker 2: championship with Mario Cristobal. Think about it this way.
19:16
Speaker 1: When the U, the ESPN 30 for 30, came out,
19:21
Speaker 1: there was... It dawned on me that there was just
19:28
Speaker 1: at that point a generation that did not understand what
19:30
Speaker 1: the big deal about Miami was. Like there were some
19:32
Speaker 1: people that were then just young enough that they they
19:34
Speaker 1: did not they were not there for the phenomenon.
19:37
Speaker 2: Right. OK.
19:39
Speaker 1: It's been 16 years since that came out. So there
19:44
Speaker 1: are people who are not familiar with the movie about
19:47
Speaker 1: the phenomenon that people watch. then were not familiar with
19:51
Speaker 1: like 1983. That's 42 years ago. Long time, long time.
19:58
Speaker 1: And they were, they were it and they were coming
20:00
Speaker 1: to the conference. And I remember the day that it
20:02
Speaker 1: ended forever. They somehow lost in 2004 in Chapel Hill
20:07
Speaker 1: to North Carolina. They were the number three team in
20:09
Speaker 1: the country. And it's never been the same. If I'm
20:13
Speaker 1: not mistaken, no, it was the next year that they
20:15
Speaker 1: lost the fight in the tunnel to LSU. That actually,
20:18
Speaker 1: that's probably the more realistic ending of it, where they
20:21
Speaker 1: lost the fight at the Peach Bowl.
20:23
Speaker 2: Yeah. Hey, I don't want to hijack you, but nobody
20:27
Speaker 2: in the history of football walked into a better situation
20:29
Speaker 2: than Larry Coker, right? I mean, that was the true,
20:32
Speaker 2: just roll out the balls. I'm going to win my
20:34
Speaker 2: first 26 games or whatever it was as a coach.
20:37
Speaker 2: And then it was like, oh, wait, he can't actually coach.
20:39
Speaker 2: Never mind. And from then on, they've struggled.
20:42
Speaker 1: Well, think about this. Nobody has done more long-run damage
20:46
Speaker 1: to their reputation than Butch Davis by leaving when he did.
20:50
Speaker 1: And look, it was a money thing, right? Like Miami Notorious,
20:53
Speaker 1: he was like, we can win with anybody here, right?
20:56
Speaker 2: Watch this.
20:56
Speaker 1: We're going to go win with Larry Coker. That was
20:59
Speaker 1: on the board. But if Butch Davis stays there, they've
21:02
Speaker 1: got a national championship, if not two. He's a college
21:05
Speaker 1: football Hall of Famer, and instead he went and coached
21:08
Speaker 1: the Browns, the Browns. Then he goes to North Carolina
21:14
Speaker 1: and not for things that now seem laughable. The whole
21:18
Speaker 1: thing got shut down right before it was about to
21:21
Speaker 1: bear fruit.
21:22
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
21:24
Speaker 1: Right.
21:24
Speaker 2: And then yes, for stuff now that is completely, you know,
21:28
Speaker 2: above board or at least not, not would not be
21:30
Speaker 2: prosecuted the same way it was then.
21:32
Speaker 1: Have you enjoyed the Ed Ogeron tour where he's basically
21:35
Speaker 1: kind of figured out that there's nothing to lose? So yeah,
21:38
Speaker 1: we can talk about the stuff we used to do.
21:39
Speaker 1: Nobody cares anymore. Right.
21:42
Speaker 2: It's hilarious. And everybody knew Ed was that guy on
21:45
Speaker 2: the staff. You know what I mean? Like, but yes,
21:47
Speaker 2: the quotes from him, we used to go through the
21:49
Speaker 2: back door with the cash. Now we go through the
21:51
Speaker 2: front door with the cash.
21:54
Speaker 1: Everybody loves their chance to do their Ed. I told you,
21:57
Speaker 1: Lane should have brought Ed with him. If Brent Fry
22:00
Speaker 1: can go back to be the defensive coordinator at a
22:02
Speaker 1: school that just fired him, you can bring Ed back.
22:07
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised if he's there in some capacity.
22:10
Speaker 2: Special assistant to the head coach in charge of Mojo
22:13
Speaker 2: or whatever. They'll find a place for Coach O.
22:18
Speaker 1: Ed is... But to this day, Ed's won a national championship.
22:22
Speaker 1: He's done all these things. He will always be the
22:25
Speaker 1: guy that took off his shirt and challenged his whole
22:27
Speaker 1: team to fight in his first meeting at Ole Miss. Like,
22:31
Speaker 1: these are things now that people do not remember. But
22:33
Speaker 1: in 2000, I think it was 2006, he got the
22:38
Speaker 1: job at Ole Miss, and he asked anybody if they
22:41
Speaker 1: were still loyal to the previous coach, David Cutcliffe, and
22:44
Speaker 1: a couple of them threw their hands up, and Ed
22:45
Speaker 1: Ogeron took off his shirt and said that they could
22:48
Speaker 1: fight right then and there.
22:52
Speaker 2: That's head coach material, isn't it?
22:54
Speaker 1: Well, what about Pete Golding, who seems to be the
22:56
Speaker 1: spiritual successor?
22:57
Speaker 2: Well, absolutely. No, there's a little bit of the same
23:01
Speaker 2: thing there. No doubt that Pete Golding is not your
23:05
Speaker 2: polished CEO type head coach. And it's funny that, like
23:09
Speaker 2: you said, Coach O, back in the day, I think
23:12
Speaker 2: there was a little bit more that you could probably
23:14
Speaker 2: pull off in terms of just being, we're just going
23:18
Speaker 2: to go kick people's ass. That's how we play football.
23:22
Speaker 2: as opposed to, you know, all the things that you
23:24
Speaker 2: have to be now. I kind of miss the Coach
23:27
Speaker 2: O dynamic.
23:28
Speaker 1: AJ, we're going to talk more about this after the break,
23:31
Speaker 1: but I have to tell you. We did something here
23:34
Speaker 1: about I just saw that picture of Pete Golden when
23:36
Speaker 1: he got the job. And I was like, ooh, that
23:37
Speaker 1: don't look like no head coach. And it bounced around.
23:41
Speaker 1: And Chris Lowe of all three was like, well, what
23:43
Speaker 1: would make him look more like a head coach if
23:45
Speaker 1: he was more clean cut, if he was a bit
23:47
Speaker 1: more debonair? Yes and yes. That is exactly what I'm saying.
23:52
Speaker 1: Like the fact that you know exactly what I'm talking
23:54
Speaker 1: about is the point. This is– He got in that
23:57
Speaker 1: press conference. I've never seen anybody cuss that much. And granted,
24:00
Speaker 1: that's just part of the new world. But I was,
24:03
Speaker 1: oh man, I don't know how long this is going
24:05
Speaker 1: to last. But he's also like, he's in the Matt
24:08
Speaker 1: Patricia category, right? Like the smarter than he looks.
24:11
Speaker 2: Sort of thing. Yes, yes, he is. Yeah, I mean, there's,
24:14
Speaker 2: I guess, apparently some rain managed qualities to his coaching ability.
24:19
Speaker 2: But yeah, but that, you also have to be able
24:21
Speaker 2: to communicate as a head coach and we'll see how
24:24
Speaker 2: that goes the rest of the way with.
24:26
Speaker 1: Well, look, coming up next, there's something else going on
24:28
Speaker 1: with that Ole Miss job that if you haven't seen,
24:29
Speaker 1: I think you'll want to hear about. All right, we're
24:32
Speaker 1: back with Pat Forty, SI.com. We're talking about what's going
24:35
Speaker 1: on with Ole Miss, and we talked a lot on
24:36
Speaker 1: this show. I guess everybody talked a lot about the
24:38
Speaker 1: Lane Kiffin exit, whether he should have been allowed to
24:41
Speaker 1: continue to coach the team. It seemed obvious to me, no,
24:44
Speaker 1: he should not have been. There's a zillion different reasons
24:47
Speaker 1: why he shouldn't. Okay, so since then, Kiffin has gone
24:51
Speaker 1: to LSU. P. Golding, who, if you believe certain people,
24:55
Speaker 1: has been MFing Lane Kiffin for weeks behind the scenes
25:00
Speaker 1: to the tune of getting this job because I think
25:03
Speaker 1: he had a crazy level of leverage because they really
25:06
Speaker 1: want to win this playoff. They really feel like they
25:08
Speaker 1: have a chance to win a national championship. Best season ever.
25:11
Speaker 2: Okay, cool.
25:12
Speaker 1: So, Golding stays there with the defensive guys. All the
25:14
Speaker 1: offensive guys went with Lane to LSU. But now, four
25:19
Speaker 1: of those offensive coaches, including Charlie Weiss Jr., the offensive coordinator,
25:23
Speaker 1: they are coming back to Ole Miss to coach the
25:25
Speaker 1: team through this playoff on offense. And if it was
25:31
Speaker 1: inappropriate for Lane to stay because you're afraid he might
25:34
Speaker 1: poach your players and everything else, That the same hole
25:38
Speaker 1: for all of his guys who just quit on you too?
25:42
Speaker 2: This is a bit of a disconnect, logical disconnect, right?
25:46
Speaker 2: Is exactly what you said. The difference I think, I
25:50
Speaker 2: guess here is that like the spite of Lane personally
25:55
Speaker 2: has gotten got so heavy and so thick like, no
25:58
Speaker 2: way that dude comes back. Now the rest of you officer, hey,
26:01
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, we had to come up with a game
26:03
Speaker 2: plan here. You know, we got to coach some positions. We,
26:06
Speaker 2: you know, we need to get some new route trees
26:08
Speaker 2: for our receivers with these new gameplay, you know? So like,
26:11
Speaker 2: I think they realized this was so heated, I think,
26:16
Speaker 2: and immediately bitter that the stakes immediately were just like,
26:21
Speaker 2: no Lane Kiffin forever. Everybody, if you leave two, you're
26:24
Speaker 2: gone too. Forget it. And then you get a little
26:27
Speaker 2: calmed down and you're like, oh my gosh, we actually
26:29
Speaker 2: do want to try to win this playoff game. Who's
26:32
Speaker 2: coaching the tight ends? Wait a minute. Get these guys
26:35
Speaker 2: back here. So, you know, you could say, all right,
26:40
Speaker 2: Lane and LSU were being bigger or whatever by saying
26:44
Speaker 2: go ahead and go back and do it. But at
26:46
Speaker 2: the same time, to your point, go ahead, go back
26:49
Speaker 2: and do it. And by the way, make sure those
26:50
Speaker 2: guys know the good ones. We got a few spots
26:54
Speaker 2: open down here at LSU.
26:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the tough spot was the one that
26:58
Speaker 1: you pointed out is somebody has to call this offense, okay?
27:02
Speaker 1: And so to me, it felt very simple that if
27:05
Speaker 1: you were going to stand on principle, then you had
27:08
Speaker 1: to be willing to set fire to the idea of
27:12
Speaker 1: this being the chance to win a national championship, which
27:14
Speaker 1: I'll just throw out there. They have a chance to
27:16
Speaker 1: go to the semifinal, perhaps even the final. They do
27:20
Speaker 1: not actually have an actual factual chance at winning the
27:22
Speaker 1: national championship. But and this is the other part of
27:24
Speaker 1: it for me is. they are behaving in such a
27:28
Speaker 1: way that explains why Lane would leave to go to
27:33
Speaker 1: LSU because they're behaving as though this is the last
27:37
Speaker 1: chance we'll ever have. And they have a history to
27:40
Speaker 1: indicate that that would be the case, but they're behaving like,
27:44
Speaker 1: I don't think we'll ever get back here. So this
27:46
Speaker 1: is what it is that we have to do. And yeah,
27:49
Speaker 1: I get it. Maybe you do. But something tells me
27:52
Speaker 1: this is going to be chaos. Like, you think Pete
27:54
Speaker 1: Golding is that happy about these guys sticking around and
27:58
Speaker 1: coming back? You think the players are just that thrilled
28:01
Speaker 1: about them coming back? I don't think they're going to
28:03
Speaker 1: lose to Tulane because Tulane doesn't really have a coach.
28:07
Speaker 1: But this has room for incredible drama.
28:12
Speaker 2: It does. I mean, the soap opera elements are all
28:16
Speaker 2: there in terms you got the scorned relationships, and then
28:20
Speaker 2: you got people trying to come back and mend fences
28:23
Speaker 2: or repair burned bridges. But at the same time, as
28:27
Speaker 2: you said, the staff dynamic, they don't like each other, right?
28:31
Speaker 2: That seems very much like an offense-defense operation and not
28:35
Speaker 2: a whole team operation, which is kind of the way
28:38
Speaker 2: Lane rolls, right? I mean, I'm not sure Lane cares
28:41
Speaker 2: anything about too much beyond his pretty ball plays and
28:44
Speaker 2: the guys that make them work. And so I can
28:47
Speaker 2: see this and the fracture comes and the offensive staff
28:51
Speaker 2: leaves and then they got to walk it back and
28:54
Speaker 2: come back in the building. Yeah. I'm sure that's not
28:57
Speaker 2: going to be the smoothest thing. And then, yeah, the
28:59
Speaker 2: players on this, they're like, hey, I thought you left.
29:01
Speaker 2: Why are you back here?
29:03
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's the thing. It's not like they've been
29:05
Speaker 1: gone for a while now. They've been gone for a
29:08
Speaker 1: week and change. Like, I imagine there may be a
29:11
Speaker 1: couple of them that came back. That's like, woo, right? Like,
29:13
Speaker 1: everybody usually likes the running backs coach, right? Like, he
29:16
Speaker 1: comes back. It's like, yo, I'm so glad to see you.
29:18
Speaker 1: It's a couple of them that's like, thought you was gone, man. Like, no, no,
29:24
Speaker 1: this is the best news we'd ever received. that you
29:27
Speaker 1: were going to be out of there. And I also
29:29
Speaker 1: love this about Ole Miss, that they all seem to
29:30
Speaker 1: be pretty happy about Pete Golding being the coach. It's
29:33
Speaker 1: going to be fun to see. It's a difference, especially
29:35
Speaker 1: between being defensive coordinator and being head coach. Everybody used
29:39
Speaker 1: to love Will Muschamp, too.
29:44
Speaker 2: As the coordinator. Yeah, yeah. Now, the offensive coordinators, generally speaking,
29:50
Speaker 2: they have to be a little bit more forward-facing, right,
29:53
Speaker 2: with the public, and they're used to that a little
29:55
Speaker 2: bit more. Defensive coordinators, yeah, those guys are the, they're
29:58
Speaker 2: the dark room guys who are sitting there like they're
30:01
Speaker 2: doing nothing but dialing up blitzes and stunts and figuring
30:04
Speaker 2: out how we're going to, you know, take out that receiver.
30:06
Speaker 2: And all of a sudden it's like, Oh my, wait,
30:08
Speaker 2: I got it. I can do it in this press conference. What?
30:10
Speaker 2: And then I got to go shake hands and kiss babies.
30:12
Speaker 2: I got to do that too. You know, this will
30:15
Speaker 2: be an adjustment clearly.
30:16
Speaker 1: Well, one thing I want to ask about the playoff
30:18
Speaker 1: itself that I hadn't talked about with you and you
30:20
Speaker 1: as somebody who has been around, you know, Louisville, Kentucky
30:25
Speaker 1: and Indiana sports for the longest. Indiana is the number
30:30
Speaker 1: one team in the country. And I contend that because
30:33
Speaker 1: of the playoff and the way things have gone, we
30:35
Speaker 1: are downplaying the magnitude of what I think was one
30:38
Speaker 1: of the great upsets in college football history was them
30:40
Speaker 1: winning that. I don't care if it's a one versus
30:41
Speaker 1: two game. It's Indiana versus Ohio state with stakes. And
30:46
Speaker 1: they won a 13 to 10 game. Can you explain
30:50
Speaker 1: to people who may not understand the magnitude of this? Like,
30:53
Speaker 1: indiana winning being the number one team in football in
30:57
Speaker 1: december is.
30:59
Speaker 2: It is the most amazing thing i've ever seen in
31:02
Speaker 2: college football and i have been covering the sport since
31:04
Speaker 2: like 1990 so i have seen more horrible indiana football
31:10
Speaker 2: than most people have covered a lot of it been
31:13
Speaker 2: there when the stadium is at best half full and
31:16
Speaker 2: the fans are the ones that are in the stadium
31:18
Speaker 2: are talking about the basketball scrimmage that's going to come
31:20
Speaker 2: that night you know it is For them to do this,
31:25
Speaker 2: and as you pointed out, to beat a good Ohio
31:28
Speaker 2: State team with a Big Ten championship on the line
31:32
Speaker 2: was unbelievable. To go into Oregon and win that game,
31:35
Speaker 2: to be 13-0, to dominate most of the teams that
31:38
Speaker 2: you have played. Kurt Cignetti, I've never seen a coaching
31:42
Speaker 2: job like this. Never seen it. He's 24-2 at a
31:45
Speaker 2: school where it would be much more realistic to think
31:49
Speaker 2: he'd be 2-24. I mean, it's just, it's preposterous. I
31:54
Speaker 2: don't know how he's done it. Like, that dude needs
31:56
Speaker 2: to write books and do seminars because it's unlike anything
32:00
Speaker 2: I've ever seen.
32:01
Speaker 1: And I think an underrated part is the great personality
32:04
Speaker 1: fit he is in that no matter what you think
32:08
Speaker 1: about Bobby Knight, They love that man up there, right? Now,
32:13
Speaker 1: Cignetti has not demonstrated any of the darkness of night,
32:16
Speaker 1: but he has all of the confidence and bravado and
32:20
Speaker 1: obvious acumen, right? Like the look you did in the
32:24
Speaker 1: face and just be like, hey, Google me. Like, I win.
32:26
Speaker 1: This is what it's going to be. Like some countries,
32:28
Speaker 1: some places like dictators, right? They like, you know, they
32:31
Speaker 1: like those sorts of dudes. This is their kind of guy.
32:34
Speaker 1: Why Lane seemed to make so much more sense at Florida.
32:36
Speaker 1: He's the spiritual successor to Steve Spurrier. Signetti is that
32:40
Speaker 1: guy for that school. 100%.
32:43
Speaker 2: He is the spiritual successor to Bob Knight without choking anybody.
32:46
Speaker 1: Yes.
32:47
Speaker 2: Or other anti-social actions. But he is cocky, but he's
32:54
Speaker 2: also like, we ain't screwing around with anything here. I
32:58
Speaker 2: am in charge. We're doing it my way. And everybody's like, yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
33:04
Speaker 2: You just keep winning whatever you want. Here's $ 11 million.
33:07
Speaker 2: Somehow just keep pulling this miracle off. He is that
33:11
Speaker 2: connection to what Indiana people know and love in terms
33:15
Speaker 2: of how a program leader looks and acts.
33:19
Speaker 1: The one opposite between he and Knight, and I always say,
33:22
Speaker 1: how does the monster of Knight get created? Two undefeated
33:25
Speaker 1: regular seasons, two Final Fours, and a national championship before
33:28
Speaker 1: you turn 37. That's how it happens. This guy didn't
33:33
Speaker 1: get it really going until his.
33:37
Speaker 2: 60s. That's astounding. And you look now and say, my God,
33:41
Speaker 2: why didn't people give him a chance earlier? And then
33:43
Speaker 2: actually you back up and look at his resume. It's like,
33:45
Speaker 2: oh gosh, he won here. He won there. He won there.
33:48
Speaker 2: And he was a saving assistant. Like he should have
33:51
Speaker 2: gotten chances earlier. There's no doubt about it. But he is,
33:57
Speaker 2: you talk to him and he's one of those guys,
33:58
Speaker 2: you know, he keeps everything kind of suppressed, but it
34:02
Speaker 2: will come out in little ways that like, Man, I
34:07
Speaker 2: am so ticked off. I did not get a chance
34:09
Speaker 2: until I was 61. I can't wait. I am sticking
34:13
Speaker 2: it to everybody because I can, because I couldn't before,
34:17
Speaker 2: because nobody let me.
34:18
Speaker 1: And he's from one of those coaching families. They normally
34:21
Speaker 1: give guys like that jobs all the time. Like, I
34:23
Speaker 1: had to not mix him up with the other one, Frank.
34:26
Speaker 1: That was the other one's name.
34:27
Speaker 2: Yeah. Frank was his dad, and then Frank Jr.
34:29
Speaker 1: Yes.
34:30
Speaker 2: Was a head coach. Yeah, that is a coaching family,
34:33
Speaker 2: and you're right. Usually those guys are fast starters. you know,
34:36
Speaker 2: they get their spots early and away they go. And
34:38
Speaker 2: that was not the way this transpired with Kirk.
34:41
Speaker 1: All right. I want to get to something that's a
34:44
Speaker 1: little bit more amorphous, but I think is maybe the
34:46
Speaker 1: most important thing to happen in college sports in quite
34:49
Speaker 1: a long time. And it is University of Utah is
34:52
Speaker 1: taking a $ 500 million, I believe is the number, capital
34:56
Speaker 1: infusion from a private equity firm. And what that is
35:00
Speaker 1: going to do is to create a for-profit entity that
35:04
Speaker 1: is owned by the university, the athletic department, and a
35:07
Speaker 1: handful of boosters will be playing this. Now, Where I
35:12
Speaker 1: think this is interesting that I think is lost is
35:15
Speaker 1: all politics are local, right? And Utah's chief rival, BYU,
35:20
Speaker 1: has access to money in a much different way that
35:24
Speaker 1: quite honestly from here is a little bit uncomfortable to
35:26
Speaker 1: talk about. But we are seeing what Ryan Smith, the
35:29
Speaker 1: owner of the Utah Jazz and the Utah Mammoth is
35:32
Speaker 1: doing with their basketball program. They might have the best
35:34
Speaker 1: player in the country because now- the money that they
35:38
Speaker 1: have access to as the official college of a church, right?
35:44
Speaker 1: They're playing a whole different game. Utah, which I imagine
35:47
Speaker 1: thought they were going to be living that PAC 12
35:49
Speaker 1: life for a lot longer than they were. Everything changes up.
35:52
Speaker 1: Now they need the money. Now we'd heard the big
35:55
Speaker 1: 10 was thinking about engaging in private equity. Utah is
35:58
Speaker 1: the first to do it. My point has always been,
36:00
Speaker 1: show me the thing that private equity is. has ever
36:03
Speaker 1: made better. I saw a lot online with people saying, oh,
36:06
Speaker 1: they believe that this is the beginning of the end
36:08
Speaker 1: of college sports, and I'm trying to avoid the doom
36:10
Speaker 1: and gloom scenario, but I do have the question of,
36:13
Speaker 1: to you and from what you're hearing, what does this
36:17
Speaker 1: seem like for Utah?
36:20
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know yet, but this is one
36:24
Speaker 2: of those classic things that we see over and over
36:26
Speaker 2: and over in college sports. It sounded good. Looked good.
36:29
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, well,
36:31
Speaker 2: that didn't really work out the way we thought it
36:32
Speaker 2: would because now they're coming in and they're saying, why
36:36
Speaker 2: do you have a cross-country program? Do you have to
36:38
Speaker 2: play soccer? Private equity, to your point, first of all, yes,
36:44
Speaker 2: I've never seen it make anything better. But secondly, they're
36:47
Speaker 2: not there just to hang around. This isn't like the
36:51
Speaker 2: rich boosters say, Can I stand on the sideline? No,
36:54
Speaker 2: they want to make money. They want to stay in
36:56
Speaker 2: what's going to happen. And a lot of their ideas
36:59
Speaker 2: are not going to be the same as college sports. Now,
37:02
Speaker 2: maybe some of those are good ideas that we need
37:04
Speaker 2: to do some things differently. But I think a lot
37:07
Speaker 2: of the times what comes with this is a lot
37:10
Speaker 2: of unintended consequences that all of a sudden you're like,
37:13
Speaker 2: oh man, this is not really what we thought. We
37:17
Speaker 2: were just getting a pile of cash. It doesn't usually
37:19
Speaker 2: work out that way. But your point on the BYU
37:21
Speaker 2: thing is, 100% dead on that. Nothing galvanizes schools to
37:27
Speaker 2: do something. Quote unquote radical, like getting beat by the,
37:31
Speaker 2: by the team that you have to live with. You know, that,
37:34
Speaker 2: that will take, that will make you go higher. We'll wait.
37:38
Speaker 2: Or that will make you do, you know, you will
37:40
Speaker 2: do things that you may have said for 10 years.
37:42
Speaker 2: We're not doing that. And then all of a sudden
37:44
Speaker 2: it's like, Oh, we better do that. Cause our rivals
37:45
Speaker 2: killing us.
37:46
Speaker 1: Well, you remember when Jim Grobe got half the conference
37:48
Speaker 1: fired in the ACC when Wake Forest won? Because Wake
37:51
Speaker 1: Forest wins the ACC. None of you can say anything anymore.
37:54
Speaker 1: No story that you have is going to explain away
37:58
Speaker 1: the fact that not only did Wake Forest win the ACC,
38:00
Speaker 1: they played Georgia Tech in the ACC championship game that year, right?
38:05
Speaker 1: So everybody here had to take calculus.
38:08
Speaker 2: Yeah.
38:09
Speaker 1: Right.
38:10
Speaker 2: Yeah.
38:10
Speaker 1: You're out here. You're out here bringing me these kids
38:12
Speaker 1: from Hargrave and everything else. And you can't win.
38:14
Speaker 2: Right. Oh, OK.
38:15
Speaker 1: No, you're going to figure this out. I believe we're
38:18
Speaker 1: seeing this in part also with Cignetti. I mean, it
38:21
Speaker 1: certainly didn't help James Franklin that Cignetti was doing all
38:25
Speaker 1: of this. We just saw as Michigan State moved on
38:27
Speaker 1: their guy yet. Yeah.
38:29
Speaker 2: Yeah. They fired Jonathan Smith. Yeah.
38:31
Speaker 1: Yeah. So like we're you know, like those things happen.
38:34
Speaker 1: And so the BYU thing happens with Utah. And now
38:37
Speaker 1: Utah goes and gets this money, but you hit the
38:39
Speaker 1: point that I try to explain to people, and I
38:41
Speaker 1: don't think they get it. They're in the business in
38:43
Speaker 1: college sports of making money, which is not the same
38:46
Speaker 1: thing as making a profit, right? Like, they make the
38:49
Speaker 1: money to spend the money. That's the whole point. And
38:53
Speaker 1: you're right. Somebody's walking around there. I think I saw
38:56
Speaker 1: somebody make the point. They were like, hey, so does, like,
38:58
Speaker 1: everybody need a helmet? Like, that's what private equity does.
39:02
Speaker 1: If you watch the Bayer, private equity is the computer.
39:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. It is. And it is.
39:08
Speaker 1: Yes.
39:08
Speaker 2: A major part of that is cost containment. And college
39:11
Speaker 2: sports don't do cost containment. Right. They make it to
39:15
Speaker 2: spend it and that's it. And this is going to
39:17
Speaker 2: be a different deal. I have heard, you know, some
39:20
Speaker 2: people who have had outside firms and not necessarily, you know,
39:25
Speaker 2: a full private equity deal. But they are they walk
39:27
Speaker 2: around they're like you give the students free tickets you
39:32
Speaker 2: know i mean like they don't look at things the
39:35
Speaker 2: way the university looks.
39:37
Speaker 1: Well so utah who has like the hall of fame
39:41
Speaker 1: coach hiding in plain sight right kyle winningham i think
39:43
Speaker 1: like this we're talking a no-brainer Hall of Famer situation.
39:47
Speaker 1: At some point, he's not going to be the coach anymore.
39:50
Speaker 1: And that, to me, is when the private equity gets fun,
39:52
Speaker 1: when they're out here like, you know, we did the
39:54
Speaker 1: math on this, and this really is valued as like
39:57
Speaker 1: a $ 2. 5 million job. And they're like, uh, you can't
40:03
Speaker 1: do that. Like, you and I both work at ESPN.
40:06
Speaker 1: I'll give people a little look behind the curtain there.
40:08
Speaker 1: When you work there, there's somebody who like runs a
40:10
Speaker 1: computer and comes up with what a salary should be
40:14
Speaker 1: for any given job. So I had done a show
40:16
Speaker 1: called High Noon and they were paying me like they
40:18
Speaker 1: pay you when you host a TV show, all right?
40:21
Speaker 1: I was not going to be hosting a TV show anymore.
40:24
Speaker 1: They ran the numbers and the numbers came up with
40:26
Speaker 1: a number that I would not have taken. And I
40:29
Speaker 1: do recall that the number cruncher ran it by one
40:32
Speaker 1: of the bosses and I was told that the boss
40:34
Speaker 1: told them, how about I just go take a shit
40:36
Speaker 1: on his porch, huh? Cause that's what this is, right?
40:41
Speaker 1: Like we're not doing that. That's just not, that's not,
40:45
Speaker 1: that's not appropriate for the relationship that we have cultivated
40:47
Speaker 1: over the years. Private equity is shitting on everybody's porch.
40:51
Speaker 1: Every time they crank out a number, it is like, it's,
40:55
Speaker 1: I guess it comes, it's going to come down to
40:57
Speaker 1: like strength coaches and somebody's going to have to explain.
40:59
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no.
41:00
Speaker 1: The strength coach is like really, really important. It's like
41:01
Speaker 1: the lifeblood of the, Lifeblood and Setup. What do you
41:05
Speaker 1: guys think about that? They're going to be going through
41:07
Speaker 1: that item after item after item. Like, what do you
41:10
Speaker 1: need a new weightlifting machine for? And some of the time,
41:13
Speaker 1: they're probably going to be right.
41:15
Speaker 2: Right.
41:15
Speaker 1: But nobody's trying to hear this.
41:17
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, no, this will be a great marriage of,
41:22
Speaker 2: you know, Utah, and then it's going to happen elsewhere,
41:24
Speaker 2: I think, obviously. But the natural inefficiencies and arcana that
41:30
Speaker 2: come with college sports of trying to explain that it
41:33
Speaker 2: is truly like grabbing somebody from Kazakhstan and trying to
41:37
Speaker 2: explain why, you know, this is why how football works.
41:40
Speaker 2: And this is why an athletic department is organized the
41:43
Speaker 2: way it is. And they're like, that doesn't make any sense.
41:45
Speaker 2: And that's going to be like that with private equity,
41:47
Speaker 2: but it's also going to be like, but, but we
41:49
Speaker 2: think we understand everything. So here's our algorithm. And it
41:52
Speaker 2: says that you're overspending here, here and here. And that's
41:55
Speaker 2: going to be an interesting dance to see how that
41:57
Speaker 2: all that works out.
41:58
Speaker 1: No, trying to explain college athletics to people, like if
42:02
Speaker 1: you ever have to try to explain to somebody from
42:03
Speaker 1: another country, or if you've had the joy that I
42:07
Speaker 1: had in my Spanish lessons with my Colombian teacher, trying
42:10
Speaker 1: to explain it to her in a language I don't
42:13
Speaker 1: really speak. Yeah, man, it's not like it's not playing.
42:18
Speaker 1: But you made an interesting point earlier. We were talking
42:20
Speaker 1: about the like Notre Dame is the school that could
42:22
Speaker 1: pull off being an independent. And you're like Michigan is
42:24
Speaker 1: another one that perhaps could. Ohio State, I think, would
42:27
Speaker 1: be another example. But this is germane because of the
42:30
Speaker 1: private equity push for the Big Ten, where everybody, including
42:34
Speaker 1: Ohio State, seems to be with it, except for Michigan
42:37
Speaker 1: and USC. And Michigan seems to be at least threatening
42:42
Speaker 1: the idea. That they could go independent. And I agree
42:45
Speaker 1: with you that I think they could because there are
42:47
Speaker 1: so many of those, like, it's not going to turn
42:49
Speaker 1: out like when Texas A & M left the Big
42:52
Speaker 1: 12 and Texas says, fine, we'll just never play you again.
42:55
Speaker 1: And they could hold firm to that. Ohio State is
42:57
Speaker 1: not holding firm to never playing Michigan again. I don't care.
43:00
Speaker 1: Michigan could join the USSR. They're not going to not
43:04
Speaker 1: play them anymore, right? All those schools, I think, would
43:07
Speaker 1: come back and find a way. Like, I think all
43:08
Speaker 1: these Big 12 schools, they'd love to go play Texas
43:11
Speaker 1: again if it comes down to it. They're not going
43:13
Speaker 1: to walk away from it.
43:14
Speaker 2: Sure, sure. No, I mean, it would be the ultimate
43:18
Speaker 2: ego test, basically, like for Ohio State if Michigan walks away.
43:24
Speaker 2: Their inclination in there would be, fine, we don't need you. But, oh,
43:27
Speaker 2: they really do. They both need each other, and they
43:30
Speaker 2: would have to come back and play. Kansas and Missouri
43:34
Speaker 2: are now back playing in football and basketball. They were
43:37
Speaker 2: both like, you know, I mean, Kansas is like, screw you.
43:39
Speaker 2: You left. And Missouri's like, we'll be fine. And then
43:41
Speaker 2: they're like, no, we better make this happen. And that's
43:45
Speaker 2: very small potatoes compared to the giant potatoes of Ohio State, Michigan. So–
43:51
Speaker 2: that's one of those things where there would be some
43:53
Speaker 2: brinksmanship involved. But if I were Michigan, like I would
43:56
Speaker 2: call the bluff and say, no, you'll play us. You
43:58
Speaker 2: will play us.
43:59
Speaker 1: Well, also the Kansas, Missouri thing points out what I
44:01
Speaker 1: think often gets lost in this is, man, we're in
44:04
Speaker 1: this for a good time, right? Like you are a
44:06
Speaker 1: Missoula love. I remember the happiest I've heard you say
44:08
Speaker 1: on the phone, 2007, you were the parking lot at Kansas.
44:11
Speaker 1: The one time Kansas, Missouri has really meant things, right?
44:14
Speaker 1: Like that was a national championship. Yeah. Type of game.
44:19
Speaker 1: People are in this for a good time. Like they're
44:22
Speaker 1: here to enjoy this. What I always say here is
44:25
Speaker 1: Alabama is the only school playing for a national championship
44:28
Speaker 1: every year. Everybody else is just kind of in this
44:30
Speaker 1: for vibes. And the money has gotten so big that
44:33
Speaker 1: people have lost sight of this in such a way
44:36
Speaker 1: that Utah is the first to take this private equity money.
44:39
Speaker 1: Somebody else in the Big 12, you would think, would
44:42
Speaker 1: then in the name of competition be the ones to go.
44:44
Speaker 1: And then it goes and trickles down.
44:46
Speaker 2: And you're right.
44:47
Speaker 1: There are going to be people walking around there with clipboards,
44:50
Speaker 1: with glasses on, asking all kinds of weird, uncomfortable questions
44:55
Speaker 1: about what's going on here.
44:59
Speaker 2: Honestly, that would be the documentary that needs to be made.
45:02
Speaker 2: Following P.E. around campus as these people are wanting to
45:06
Speaker 2: tear down everything and sitting in those meetings. And again, having...
45:11
Speaker 2: They're explaining, well, what you're doing doesn't make sense. And
45:14
Speaker 2: then the athletic department is saying, well, here's why we're
45:18
Speaker 2: doing it even though it doesn't make sense. Just trying
45:22
Speaker 2: the understanding, the natural illogic of college sports versus the
45:26
Speaker 2: very cold logic of this is how we want to
45:28
Speaker 2: make money. Right.
45:29
Speaker 1: And it taps on one more thing I want to
45:31
Speaker 1: ask you about before we go because of your particular expertise.
45:33
Speaker 1: And so for people who do not know, Pat Forty
45:37
Speaker 1: is no longer like, the biggest name in his own household.
45:41
Speaker 1: He is Pat Forty, father of Shannon Forty, Olympic swimmer, right?
45:45
Speaker 2: This is what Pat was.
45:46
Speaker 1: So you have an insight into the Olympic sport world
45:50
Speaker 1: of college sports, and they swore to us that if
45:52
Speaker 1: you had to start paying players, that that world would
45:55
Speaker 1: fall apart. It seems very clear that that is not true.
45:58
Speaker 1: But private equity, ooh, now we're talking about something different. Yeah, that's,
46:04
Speaker 1: I think, when the wolf's actually at the door.
46:06
Speaker 2: And I am very... proprietary of college sports, or I
46:09
Speaker 2: mean Olympic sports, probably more so than most of my colleagues.
46:13
Speaker 2: And I get it, sure. I mean, I think you
46:14
Speaker 2: have to experience it maybe to appreciate it on a
46:18
Speaker 2: different level. But that's when I think you would have
46:22
Speaker 2: people saying, well, we got to change the number of
46:25
Speaker 2: minimum sports it takes to be in Division I. We
46:28
Speaker 2: got to lower that. And that's where the pressure I
46:31
Speaker 2: think would come. But there is no doubt that if
46:33
Speaker 2: you are looking at ways to run an efficient athletic department.
46:37
Speaker 2: If the sole goal is profit, not just revenue, but profit,
46:42
Speaker 2: as you pointed out, then you're saying, why the hell
46:46
Speaker 2: do we have a soccer team we're paying that we're
46:49
Speaker 2: spending this much money on and volleyball team and so
46:51
Speaker 2: forth and so on, because that's, they don't make money.
46:54
Speaker 2: And quite frankly, actually, if you look most places, the
46:57
Speaker 2: biggest loser is women's basketball. Nobody's going to cut women's basketball,
47:00
Speaker 2: but they're going to look elsewhere downstream and say, well,
47:03
Speaker 2: We're going to get rid of this, this, and this.
47:05
Speaker 2: And that's where there will be a tension point there,
47:08
Speaker 2: I think, in how college sports is run, given if
47:12
Speaker 2: the private equity gets a bigger and bigger say in things.
47:15
Speaker 1: There's going to be some moron who really pushes that
47:17
Speaker 1: women's sports thing. There's like somebody who just can't read
47:19
Speaker 1: the room and thinks that they're going to shut down
47:22
Speaker 1: women's basketball, right? Like you're not going to do it
47:24
Speaker 1: at UConn. I imagine that Tennessee is still making good
47:27
Speaker 1: money because they used to sell a lot of tickets
47:29
Speaker 1: at Tennessee in that giant arena that they have. But
47:32
Speaker 1: there's somebody that's going to walk in and be like, yeah,
47:34
Speaker 1: what are they going to do about it?
47:36
Speaker 2: OK, yeah, yeah.
47:37
Speaker 1: It's just not going to happen. They'll be fine. They'll
47:40
Speaker 1: get over it and they go look out that window.
47:42
Speaker 1: And it is not going to look the way they thought.
47:46
Speaker 1: But the other thing that happens is some man with
47:50
Speaker 1: a lot of money at this program has a daughter
47:53
Speaker 1: who plays insert sport here or a son who plays
47:56
Speaker 1: insert sport here. And that person is going to have
47:58
Speaker 1: a giant problem with what it is that you're talking about.
48:02
Speaker 1: Never mind the fact that the way the Utah thing
48:03
Speaker 1: has been presented is though there's going to be some
48:05
Speaker 1: booster who will then have a share in this new operation.
48:10
Speaker 1: Can you imagine what booster world would be at, say,
48:12
Speaker 1: at the University of Texas with all those big money
48:15
Speaker 1: boosters and try to figure out who gets to have
48:17
Speaker 1: a piece?
48:20
Speaker 2: No, that's the thing. There are some places... They're not
48:25
Speaker 2: just several cooks in the kitchen, but they're opinionated cooks
48:28
Speaker 2: and they do have more money than God. And you
48:31
Speaker 2: bring enough of them in and you have the private
48:33
Speaker 2: equity element. I mean, there's going to be, I would
48:37
Speaker 2: like to be the athletic director who is trying to
48:39
Speaker 2: ride this tiger, you know? Right. You just keep hanging
48:42
Speaker 2: on because when you fall off, the tiger eats you.
48:44
Speaker 1: And when you make it about investment, like when these
48:47
Speaker 1: dudes are just throwing money at programs, they just tricking, right? Right.
48:52
Speaker 1: when they have a share on it, now they're pimping, right?
48:55
Speaker 1: Like now that you get a piece of the money,
48:57
Speaker 1: now this doesn't feel, like the most charming thing about
49:00
Speaker 1: this whole world is there are these rich people who
49:02
Speaker 1: have nothing better to do with their money than to
49:04
Speaker 1: like make their teams better. That's just what they enjoy.
49:08
Speaker 1: They put your name up on something, right? Like maybe
49:11
Speaker 1: we'll name the hot tub after you, all of these things.
49:15
Speaker 1: Now these guys are going to be coming in there
49:16
Speaker 1: asking about their return.
49:18
Speaker 2: That's not what.
49:18
Speaker 1: This is about.
49:20
Speaker 2: No right you know that's the thing is I mean
49:22
Speaker 2: forever college sports has been predicated the funding of it
49:25
Speaker 2: has been predicated on rich old guys that are like
49:28
Speaker 2: yeah I just want my alma mater to win but
49:30
Speaker 2: you you add a different element to it if it
49:32
Speaker 2: becomes an actual profit or loss investment that they're tied
49:37
Speaker 2: to And I.
49:38
Speaker 1: Don't think people understand this either. I haven't checked the
49:40
Speaker 1: data in a while, but you used to look at
49:42
Speaker 1: when the USA today puts out that list of the
49:44
Speaker 1: budgets for all of those programs. And you look up
49:46
Speaker 1: and like one year, I remember looked at Georgia, something
49:49
Speaker 1: like 30% of their budget was from donations. Like, like that,
49:54
Speaker 1: these are not, these things don't make money in the
49:57
Speaker 1: way that you think that they make money. They only
49:59
Speaker 1: make money because people give them money.
50:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, no. And, and I mean, That's where it is interesting,
50:06
Speaker 2: I think, too, the donor fatigue. Like if you are
50:08
Speaker 2: sitting there and you are Joe Mega Millionaire and you've
50:12
Speaker 2: given to Georgia five different major donations and you look
50:17
Speaker 2: at that phone and you see that number pop up again,
50:19
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, no, not again. Like, really? What is
50:23
Speaker 2: it you want me to do now? I think there
50:25
Speaker 2: is an element of where they're juggling chainsaws here and
50:29
Speaker 2: eventually the chainsaw may cut your arm.
50:32
Speaker 1: Did you see Troy Aikman say that he donated money
50:35
Speaker 1: to a player who may or may not be Dante Moore,
50:41
Speaker 1: who is not the quarterback at UCLA, Troy Aikman's alma
50:44
Speaker 1: mater anymore. He is at Oregon. But Troy Aikman said
50:46
Speaker 1: he donated the money to get him and, quote, didn't
50:48
Speaker 1: even get a thank you card, which is the most
50:50
Speaker 1: old man thing Troy Aikman could have said. And he
50:53
Speaker 1: said he's never doing it again. Right.
50:57
Speaker 2: That was, it was quaint, right? It was actually quaint.
51:00
Speaker 2: I need a thank you card for this. Somebody, somebody somewhere,
51:04
Speaker 2: that's where you get a staffer at Oregon or at
51:07
Speaker 2: UCLA to say, just write, just forge something from Dante
51:10
Speaker 2: saying thank you. Put out the thank you card.
51:13
Speaker 1: Hey, do you think there's somebody at OU who gets
51:16
Speaker 1: a list of like former players who are in the
51:18
Speaker 1: NFL and every now and then accidentally calls Troy Aikman
51:22
Speaker 1: to ask for money?
51:23
Speaker 2: Without question. Absolutely.
51:26
Speaker 1: Yeah.
51:26
Speaker 2: Some 24-year-old like, who's Troy Aikman? Right. Hi, Mr. Aikman.
51:32
Speaker 1: Hello?
51:32
Speaker 2: Hello? Hello? Right?
51:33
Speaker 1: Like, he calls Troy Aikman and he hangs up. He
51:35
Speaker 1: calls Jamel Holloway and doesn't understand why he can't help. Like,
51:40
Speaker 1: what's the issue here? Like, we don't get what's going on.
51:43
Speaker 1: But that, ladies and gentlemen, is Pat Forty. Check him
51:45
Speaker 1: out at SI.com. We got the 40 minutes. We got
51:49
Speaker 1: the 40-yard dash. Basketball season coming. I appreciate you joining us,
51:53
Speaker 1: my man.
51:53
Speaker 2: My pleasure as always, Bomani. Great to catch up with you. Yes, sir.
51:57
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us here
51:58
Speaker 1: on The Right Time. We do this four times a week.
52:01
Speaker 1: Ryan Brumley handling everything behind the scenes. Thank you, sir.
52:04
Speaker 1: Hit our voicemail line, 323-596-7767. Remember, follow The Right Time. Subscribe, like,
52:10
Speaker 1: rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only
52:12
Speaker 1: give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are
52:14
Speaker 1: a hater. We'll talk to you guys in a couple
52:16
Speaker 1: of days. Take it easy.