Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Luke Broyles & Optimist Fields | Simply Bitcoin IRL

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Luke Broyles & Optimist Fields | Simply Bitcoin IRL · Simply Bitcoin

• 0:01
  Yo welcome to another episode of Simply Bitcoin IRL today, we
• 0:05
  have two very special guests, one of which you're very
• 0:08
  familiar because you see them every single day.
• 0:11
  We have Optimus Fields my co-host for simply Bitcoin, and
• 0:15
  of course Luke Broyles who's been dropping some amazing
• 0:18
  Twitter threads. So we're going to get to that
• 0:20
  today. We had, we had a bit of a change
• 0:23
  up, so I know it's a little bit different, but before we start
• 0:25
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  20th, it's coming up, get your tickets quickly and you could
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  use the promo code simply to get Self a big discount, anyways, no
• 1:02
  more delay. I want to bring up our awesome
• 1:05
  guests Opti. What are you doing here?
• 1:09
  I don't know, dude, what am I doing here now?
• 1:11
  We're talking Bitcoin, bro. That's all we do here this.
• 1:13
  All we do on this channel, I wanted to change it up.
• 1:15
  We had a last-minute cancellation and I was like,
• 1:18
  okay, I might just gonna have a conversation with Luke, we Luke
• 1:20
  and I had a convert one-on-one conversation recently so I'm
• 1:24
  like, okay, let's let's spice it up.
• 1:26
  Let's add a little bit of spice. Let's make it interesting.
• 1:29
  Let's get Opti. T into this.
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  And for anyone who doesn't know Opti, you know, he's a lot
• 1:35
  smarter than he, when he tells people.
• 1:38
  Okay. Did don't blow my secret.
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  He's a lot deeper than a lot of. A lot of people think,
• 1:44
  especially down the film philosophical level, and the
• 1:48
  reason I want to bring opt into this conversation is Luke.
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  One of the things that you told me that never left my mind.
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  Last time we had this conversation was this idea of
• 1:57
  exponential's and how human beings have a hard time
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  understanding exponential's especially when it comes to
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  technology when it comes to wealth.
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  So could you elaborate a little bit about that?
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  Why do you think that phenomenon is what it is?
• 2:15
  Yeah. Why do you why are humans?
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  Can you guys hear me? Alright.
• 2:18
  Yes you're coming in perfectly okay great.
• 2:21
  Well yeah first of all thanks to have you back on this.
• 2:23
  This is this is fun and like come back on despite the other
• 2:27
  cancellation. So to yeah.
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  So your question why are you humans have difficulty thinking
• 2:33
  and exponential's? I think it's pretty simple.
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  I think the simple answer is just that our brains are
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  designed to think operate and plan for the future.
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  ER, in terms of linear units, you know, like right now it's
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  spring, it's very nice at flowers, are coming out and
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  everything, but when it's bald and trying to plan for the
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  winner, whether you're a squirrel burying nuts, or you're
• 2:56
  a human, you know, putting corn in your stockpiles for the
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  winter, you know. Basically, you're planning a
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  linear amount of food for a linear number of days in a fixed
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  rate, you know? So if you think in terms of
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  distance, like, how far is it, take to go to a certain place.
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  Case you're thinking in terms of steps or Paces for thinking like
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  thousands of years ago, and today it's the same thing except
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  we think of it in terms of miles and kilometers.
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  So when it comes to distance, when it comes to time, when it
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  comes to energy, like, how many meals do we need?
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  You know, no matter what kind of society we've had our brains are
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  oriented and wired and thinking of ways that are linear.
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  And so I think fundamentally the nature of technological growth,
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  among other things that are exponential are very difficult
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  for. Our brains to wrap her head
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  around, you know, I think one example being the pandemic in
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  2020, obviously, there's controversy about how it handles
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  and everything, but one of the reasons it was so immediate and
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  so fast because it's the same thing with a disease, a disease
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  can float around for months or years with virtually, nobody
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  having seen a nobody have experienced it because just
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  doubling doubling doubling, but it's such a small amount that
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  it's a small percentage of the general population.
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  And then all of a sudden it's like, Irwin is getting a disease
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  and everyone's talking about because it's the same thing in
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  viral biology where, you know, you just have a doubling or
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  exponential population and suddenly slowly than suddenly is
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  the term. So I think whether we're talking
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  about the rate at which disease is spread it's hard for human
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  brains to understand. I think we're talking about the
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  adoption new technologies, I think that's hard to understand.
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  I think, if we're talking in terms of total amount
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  Prosperity, I think it's difficult for us to comprehend
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  and in other things, too. But those are just some
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  examples. I think fundamentally just comes
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  down to that are our brains are not designed to understand it
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  Opti. Well, 100% is your opportunity.
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  This is this is where I'm not confined by the the live show.
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  Like, I always like to, I say it all the time as a joke, you
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  know, I am left side of the right side of the bell curve so
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  I'm smart enough to understand what Luke says, but I also do my
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  best to break it down in and just normal example, so that
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  people understand exactly what's going on.
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  And my favorite thing to do in regards to In chosen linear is
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  literally it's this this thought experiment and I first time I
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  heard this it really blew my mind and it's like the
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  difference between millions billions and trillions and I
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  know you guys have seen the visual out there of like you
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  know a million dollars a billion dollars worth of trillion
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  dollars and like compared to the Empire State Building.
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  But my favorite one right here is like all right the difference
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  between million billions and trillions.
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  Let's do this one. With s 1.
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  Million seconds is about 11 and a half days. 1 billion seconds
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  is 82 years and one trillion second is 32,000 years, it's
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  like your brain is not supposed to comprehend this stuff.
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  Big numbers are hard and this is why the average person gets so
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  confused and especially considering what we're seeing
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  right now. You know, the FED Central bank's
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  out there pit printing trillions of dollars.
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  We're in what like 32 trillion dollar debts.
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  It's like we're never going to pay this stuff back and you try
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  to explain this to anyone out there and it's just like a
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  number. It's just such a big number
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  People don't understand this, they can't wrap their head
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  around this and it really reminds me.
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  Again I have since since I am usually just the producer here,
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  I'm able to pull everything up, it really reminds me of the
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  Bitcoin price and the difference between Bitcoin on a linear
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  scale and a log scale and I always do the same thing where
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  you know, you do the same thing. It's like hey guys you know this
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  is the Bitcoin all-time high. This is the 27 all-time high and
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  this is the 2013 all time high and you can't.
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  Really grasp the ideas of big numbers, and exponential moves
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  because your brain is just not designed to understand this
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  stuff because yes our, you know, the way we go through life is
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  linear you go one day, you know, 2 day 3 Day 4 day and then the
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  next thing you know it's years down the line and it's kind of
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  like a the basic human psychology phenomenon of.
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  Like if you look at yourself in the mirror everyday you don't
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  see a change but if you look at yourself in the mirror from you
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  know, two years to three years Oh, wow.
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  I am getting so old and I'm changing so much, and it's kind
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  of back to this whole idea of like slow progressions.
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  They Don't Really register on the human psychology in the
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  human brain. But when you start spreading
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  things down the line, you're like, oh my goodness, things
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  change so incredibly rapidly and it's back to another me.
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  My, you know, again, I speak in memes.
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  Everything I do is I speak in memes.
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  What's the saying you overestimate, what?
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  You can do two years and you underestimate what you can do in
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  10 years. And again, it's just kind of
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  like human brains aren't really meant to understand.
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  Exponential is, we're just so used to linear's that.
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  When you encounter them in your real life, it just it really
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  messes up everything about the way that you think about the
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  world because it's so counterintuitive.
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  You're just like, wait, oh, everything?
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  I know is wrong. Wait, maybe, I don't know as
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  much as I know. And again, back to memes.
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  What's the first thing in The Big Short?
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  The Mark Twain, tweet, or comment, It's not what you know
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  that messes you up or it's not what you don't know that hurts.
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  You it's what you know that really ain't.
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  And this is like that. How humans work our brain is not
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  designed to understand every variable in the world.
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  You're really, like you really work on very, very lack of
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  detailed information and then you make huge assumptions off of
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  this. And then when you're faced with
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  the data, like, oh wait, I was so wrong.
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  Like, how did I get in? So, So wrong.
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  It's just like that's just how your brain works and it reminds
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  me of like movies and storytelling, you know, like the
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  best storytellers. Don't give you all the answers.
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  They don't tell you the full story.
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  It's your brain that fills in all the process and like this
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  where we are, it's all just The Greatest Story Ever Told and hey
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  numbers are really hard and math hard for me to.
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  I just, I just understand this phenomenon.
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  Like I know that. I know nothing I'm going to
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  stick by what I said in the very beginning of the show.
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  Yeah, yeah. See I stick to what I said about
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  Opti. I don't think you're on the left
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  side of the bell curve brother. No, no left side of the right
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  side of the bell curve. Oh okay.
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  Anyways, Luke. So let's talk about Bitcoin,
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  it's bring it up, talk about exponentials we got to talk
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  about Bitcoin. We're talking about
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  exponential's. I know I know I know like a lot,
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  a lot of people thinking it's like look the law of big
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  numbers. It's a lot harder from Bitcoin
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  to get from you know, from Um, 28,000 to 100,000 and it was
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  from a dollar to ten dollars. Right.
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  So I guess you know the question is you know are we are we too
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  late to bitcoin and then I'm going to ask you the same
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  question. I don't think I've heard his
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  answer on that. Yeah, well I think to add to opt
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  he's point and I love what you were doing was showing the
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  Bitcoin price chart in both log and linear scale because I think
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  that's the exact point. And I'd sometimes my show that
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  the people who say, oh, that's cheating you do that, that's not
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  fair or whatever it is, you know, and my counter argument to
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  that would be that it's just how reality Works in like every
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  facet of science, every facet of physics and chemistry, you know,
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  reality is in exponential terms are our understanding of
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  realities and linear terms but reality is an exponential terms,
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  you know, we are here, you know, humans like two meters tall or
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  so but if you look down and you zoom in and farther and farther
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  and farther, They're down two molecules and cells and Planck
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  length and quarks, you know, that just tiny things.
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  There are so many orders of magnitude smaller below us and
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  likewise, if you look outwards to the sky.
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  If you look, you know, to space, there are so many orders of
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  magnitude out Beyond us. You know, we're ironically kind
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  of in the middle here between, you know, the tiniest thing that
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  we can conceptualize and the whole observable universe were
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  like more or less than the middle and and it's the same
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  thing. If you want to map out the total
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  size. Of galaxies at the total mass or
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  you know, the total mass of black holes.
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  You know, you have to talk and logarithmic terms because if you
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  map them on linear terms, it's like well the largest one, just
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  dwarfs, everything else, it doesn't become useful, no
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  visualization is useful on a linear scale.
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  If you want to map anything in space or do you have anything in
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  a microscopic world? And it's the same thing here
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  with Bitcoins. Same thing with value to the
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  same thing with technology that we have to think in long term.
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  Terms. So I think I think that's one of
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  the most important things for people to see with their own
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  eyes. If you look at it in a linear
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  chart, it's always going to look like it's a bubble and then it's
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  dead and it's about balance and Dad but my dad forever and in
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  this goes to your question which I'm going to just a moment.
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  But then if you look at it on a logarithmic scale you see oh
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  okay this is following a hyperbolic adoption curve.
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  As all Technologies do is just for the first time.
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  We are pricing a technology in a given number.
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  You know, it's like when people first invent the light bulb over
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  mass-producing the light bulb. It's like there was no fixed
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  number that all the light bulbs in the world was equated to
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  that. You can then check 24/7 on your
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  you know, smart device in your hand all the time at 3 a.m. is
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  you worried about you lost all your money.
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  We've never had that before. It's all conceptual.
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  It's never been something tangible like that that we can
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  see but with Bitcoin because if the nature of Technology that's
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  just how it is that there is a fixed number.
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  There is a Number that were pricing them all within and
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  because we see that we assume it has to be linear like everything
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  else in life. We see when reality is
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  exponential like everything has been before it.
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  So I think I think it's really important.
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  People understand that this is true in all of nature, but then
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  when it comes to your question of, are we too late?
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  Well, if what I just said is correct, then absolutely not,
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  we're not too late and I think the most frankly, Painfully
• 13:14
  obvious example, that is like, how many people do you know in
• 13:17
  your everyday life that talk about Bitcoin thing about
• 13:20
  Bitcoin? Understand anything about
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  picking up? How many people walk into the
• 13:23
  street to tell you what the difficulty?
• 13:24
  Justin is that how many can tell you the difference between a
• 13:27
  workgroup steak? How many know the name
• 13:29
  halfpenny? It's like people don't know.
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  And if we assume that this technology becomes adopted, well
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  then, okay, 99 99 Point 59.3, whatever percent of the world is
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  yet to adopt it. And so Put aside bitcoin price
• 13:44
  put aside price history put aside having cycles per side,
• 13:47
  everything else, just that alone should tell you that it's
• 13:50
  stupendously early. You know what I was in Fenway
• 13:54
  Park recently in Boston with two other bitcoiners and for like an
• 13:57
  hour, we were debating in this Arena.
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  You know, like 30,000 people are so how many of them actually own
• 14:04
  Bitcoin, it with their own keys are on self custody?
• 14:06
  You know, I like a nun - what non negligible amount like 100
• 14:10
  bucks worth of bitcoin or so. And, you know, we were like
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  debating a Okay, maybe it's five, maybe it's 10, maybe it's
• 14:16
  three. And it's like, no matter what we
• 14:18
  just kept laughing ourselves silly because it's like in this
• 14:21
  whole, you know, it's it's one thing to look at it number,
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  thirty thousand people and see a bunch of zeros like like you're
• 14:27
  bringing up opting. You know, that's one thing, see
• 14:28
  the zero. So that's another sit there with
• 14:30
  the park and actually see the people.
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  And be like, wow, there's like at least twenty nine thousand
• 14:36
  nine hundred and fifty people here, that don't know anything
• 14:40
  about Bitcoin and if Continue Bitcoins adoption curve over the
• 14:45
  next 30 Years, like they're probably all going to eventually
• 14:48
  learn about it. So, and yeah, no, I don't think
• 14:51
  it's too late and I think one more, one more point.
• 14:54
  I like to say, they're, I think this would be really interesting
• 14:57
  to people when thinking about exponential's and wealth and
• 14:59
  everything like that would be that if we just look at today.
• 15:03
  And we were to say that the poorest people in the world on
• 15:06
  average say I'm about ten thousand dollars, USD net assets
• 15:11
  so maybe they're in the developing.
• 15:13
  The world, they have minimal, you know, not the best housing
• 15:17
  situation. Maybe they have a scooter or
• 15:19
  some other form of transportation, much less
• 15:22
  privileged, and we are here in the west, you know, let's say,
• 15:24
  you know, there's a couple billion people to have ten
• 15:27
  thousand dollars of assets and total if they liquidated
• 15:31
  everything. And then let's also assume that
• 15:33
  on the other far end of the spectrum, the very far left end
• 15:36
  of the bell curve, not an intelligence but in Wells, we're
• 15:39
  talking about someone with a trillion dollars and I know some
• 15:42
  people may not think there are There is out there but I think
• 15:44
  you know most of us know that it's a high probability.
• 15:47
  There's at least one trillion are out there in the world.
• 15:50
  Elon Musk is the public most wealthy person in the world but
• 15:55
  you know, that's just because he's public.
• 15:56
  But anyway, if we assume that's a spectrum it's like someone
• 15:59
  with a hundred million dollars. U.s. is like in the middle
• 16:03
  between those two extremes and so it's like if you want to look
• 16:06
  at someone that is has like food and security is just getting by,
• 16:10
  you know, maybe making $3 USD a day.
• 16:13
  Between that level of wealth versus some of the 100 million
• 16:16
  dollars u.s. is like the same disparity of wealth between that
• 16:20
  person and the wealthiest person in the world or again, to use a
• 16:25
  Fenway Park or a stadium metaphor.
• 16:27
  It's like, you know, let's say we take the assumptions and
• 16:30
  estimates to be correct. And there's roughly, you know,
• 16:32
  fifty to eighty thousand, 100 million, 100 million
• 16:37
  millionaires, you know like at least in their 50 to 80 thousand
• 16:41
  people out there with a net worth of a hundred million
• 16:42
  dollars. More, you know, basically if you
• 16:45
  took all those wealthy stupidly rich and wealthy, people put
• 16:49
  them in a single Stadium. There is just as much wealth
• 16:51
  inequality within the stadium as there is between the bottom tier
• 16:56
  of the stadium and everyone else in the world.
• 16:58
  And so, all that to say is it, is it too late for Bitcoins
• 17:00
  like? Well, it's easy for our brains
• 17:02
  to think we're too late because we look at Michael cellular.
• 17:04
  We look at people that bought in 2013 or 2012 or 2011, we're 2017
• 17:09
  or 2019, and we think the oh, we're too late because they have
• 17:12
  ten. 10 100 1000 times more sense than we do or so much more
• 17:18
  Bitcoin that we do. There's no way I could ever
• 17:19
  possibly catch up and there's no it.
• 17:21
  And my metaphor with the stadium there is to emphasize on that
• 17:25
  point that it's like yes you will never have as much Bitcoin
• 17:28
  as Michael sailor. He'll probably have somewhere
• 17:31
  between 10,000 and a million times more Bitcoin than you ever
• 17:34
  will. And you know, maybe it's even
• 17:37
  more dramatic than that but it's like if you're buying today
• 17:39
  probably you will have thousands tens of thousands.
• 17:43
  Maybe even hundreds of thousands of times more Bitcoin than the
• 17:46
  average person will in the future.
• 17:48
  And that's, you know, and is a little unfasten about this
• 17:52
  conversation and like Luke, when we talked, that was the thing
• 17:57
  that literally stuck with me. It's like the, the
• 18:01
  exponential's, man. This is where it's a good it all
• 18:03
  boils down to this, but why are you so sure?
• 18:08
  Why are you so sure about Bitcoin?
• 18:09
  What like, what you're talking and absolute and And again and
• 18:14
  the only reason I'm giving you push back to the Opti, I know
• 18:16
  opting. I feel the exact same way.
• 18:17
  It is absolute to us, right? We ask ourselves this question
• 18:21
  every single day. Like, are we crazy?
• 18:23
  Or are we just right? And I talk a lot for anyone who
• 18:27
  doesn't know. We are constantly talking.
• 18:29
  I think it's the only way that we do.
• 18:31
  We do what we do but Luke, I don't know, I don't know.
• 18:35
  I we don't talk as much. I mean, I think we might in the
• 18:37
  future if, you know, you know. Yes.
• 18:45
  But yeah. It, why are you why are you so
• 18:47
  sure? Why are you so sure.
• 18:49
  Yeah. Well that's a great question.
• 18:51
  But you asset, you know, some, a lot of people think that I'm
• 18:55
  lost my mind because I am speaking such absolute and
• 18:57
  there's such bold claims. It's like it's so bold.
• 18:59
  It's so ridiculous. And I'm speaking with such
• 19:02
  conviction, it's like like who is it?
• 19:05
  I mean it's like okay what do I know?
• 19:07
  I'm a 24 year olds, you know what I want?
• 19:11
  But the reason I speak with such absolute Lutz is because I just
• 19:15
  thrown every ounce of my thought at this.
• 19:21
  And I'm not saying that I'm any smarter or less smart, anyone
• 19:25
  else. It's just that I've thrown my
• 19:27
  brain at it and I can't find a way in which this isn't the most
• 19:31
  probable outcome. Perhaps it's not the outcome
• 19:33
  that occurs perhaps. There's a fifty one percent
• 19:36
  chance. I'm right and 100 different
• 19:38
  scenarios in which it doesn't, you know, but I think it's more
• 19:41
  probable than not that this Case.
• 19:43
  And why why? Yeah why do I think that?
• 19:47
  Well what is bitcoin? Bitcoin is just a piece of
• 19:50
  information and history shows. That information is really
• 19:54
  difficult to destroy. The Bible has survived and I was
• 19:57
  just Israel. Last December and visited the
• 20:01
  busy qumran in the Dead Sea. Yeah, we're at which is where
• 20:04
  the Dead Sea, Scrolls were found all that.
• 20:05
  And it's amazing that basically a bunch of goat herders and, you
• 20:09
  know, people from the ancient world were able to meticulously
• 20:13
  Preserve the Hebrew scriptures that, you know, now is the Bible
• 20:19
  for thousands of years with their primitive ancient
• 20:22
  technology. It's like, well, with Bitcoin.
• 20:23
  It's a similar idea then that it's just information.
• 20:26
  It's just, you know, lines of code.
• 20:28
  And as long as somebody somewhere is keeping up code
• 20:32
  alive, and, you know, it has their computers plugged in
• 20:35
  mining it, you know, running our nodes, you know, all that,
• 20:37
  keeping the network alive. It's like that's incredibly
• 20:41
  difficult to kill. And so Yes, it's possible that
• 20:45
  Bitcoin is not gain Mass adoption, but Bitcoin is just an
• 20:49
  idea Bitcoins is information. And number one, I think it's a
• 20:52
  very safe assumption to assume that if enough people care about
• 20:55
  the information information will survive.
• 20:58
  And number two, that the best idea wins, like every time, you
• 21:02
  know, that the internet was a better idea than newspapers.
• 21:07
  Because internet has again talking about exponential's,
• 21:10
  hundreds of thousands, if not hundreds of Millions, Ins of
• 21:14
  times of more applications and connections than newspapers ever
• 21:19
  could. And you know, it's the same
• 21:21
  thing with every other Paradigm in history.
• 21:23
  Locomotives were a better idea than horses.
• 21:25
  Horses are great horses were the Pinnacle technology for
• 21:27
  thousands of years until suddenly we found a way to
• 21:34
  Manifest, the idea of transporting massive amounts of
• 21:37
  people massive amounts of resources across face via the
• 21:41
  locomotive and the best idea, one out.
• 21:43
  And so why am I so absolute? Bitcoin is like, well assuming
• 21:46
  information survives and assuming it's the best idea,
• 21:50
  then it should just take over everything.
• 21:52
  And I'm very confident. It's going to survive.
• 21:55
  I'm most confident going to survive and I'm pretty confident
• 21:58
  that it's the best idea. I mean what's the other answer
• 22:01
  guys like so, Digital currencies from to make digital currencies
• 22:06
  like like, what Sheba? I mean, like every gold is the
• 22:13
  best idea besides Bitcoin and it's a it's a really good idea.
• 22:16
  You don't give the gold bugs or credit like this like like
• 22:19
  scooping gold has worked for thousands of years and it's a
• 22:21
  really good idea. But why has gold not been
• 22:25
  transact with for hundreds of years?
• 22:26
  Like, well we just can't we just can't do it anymore.
• 22:29
  You know you can't have an analog, you know metal.
• 22:33
  Keep up with the velocity of money, we need in the modern
• 22:35
  world. Your transactions are so small.
• 22:37
  So instantaneous and there's so numerous that it just seems like
• 22:41
  an inferior idea to bitcoin and that's not saying it's a bad
• 22:44
  idea, it just seems a bit coins better idea.
• 22:46
  And so anyway given those two assumptions, I don't see any
• 22:49
  other outcome, unless there's a better idea coming along but
• 22:52
  it's been 14 years. No one's had a better idea and I
• 22:56
  don't even know how where to begin to think about a better
• 22:59
  idea. I don't know how you get better
• 23:01
  than perfect scarcity. Yeah.
• 23:03
  Dude beautifully said Opti you want to follow up on that, I
• 23:08
  mean hard to follow up on that one.
• 23:09
  But on your last Point like we're bitcoiners aren't the
• 23:14
  first ones to talk about the idea of Bitcoin or the idea of
• 23:18
  energy money. You know, there's been a lot of
• 23:19
  great thinkers around throughout the history of time.
• 23:23
  The modern modern history, talking about energy money, and
• 23:27
  again, like to talk about what Luke said, it's like, I don't
• 23:30
  know how much better money we can get like we already have the
• 23:33
  energy money. Me like how is there going to be
• 23:35
  a 10x Improvement on bitcoin i-it's around?
• 23:38
  I'm not that smart and I'm almost positive.
• 23:40
  We can't find a 10x Improvement on bitcoin and to Luke's point
• 23:44
  you know like I know I get pushed back when I say this but
• 23:48
  like gold failed gold failed in the modern world or else we
• 23:50
  wouldn't be in the Fiat world that we're in right now and
• 23:53
  Bitcoin is a 10x Improvement. It might even be a bit more
• 23:56
  Improvement on gold but it's definitely a 10x Improvement on
• 23:58
  Fiat and this is where we are right now.
• 24:01
  Like what's, what's the economic law?
• 24:03
  Russians law, you know, like the best money will win.
• 24:06
  The best idea will win. As Luke was saying and again,
• 24:10
  like, I am fundamentally team human.
• 24:12
  I am not Opti, you know optimistic fields for no reason.
• 24:16
  I, I fundamentally like to always look at the bright side
• 24:20
  of things, and, and I really do think that as, as much as humans
• 24:24
  are, you know, the most evil thing on planet Earth, the most,
• 24:29
  the apex predator. We are also the best, you know,
• 24:31
  animal on planet Earth. So, I try to balance these ideas
• 24:35
  of like we have. We have so so much room to grow
• 24:39
  but we also have to acknowledge like who we are and so I always
• 24:42
  try to point things in like team human.
• 24:44
  So I'm always hopeful on humanity and I think that humans
• 24:48
  fundamentally will wake up to the idea of Bitcoin and I
• 24:52
  fundamentally always try to look at the good side of humans and
• 24:55
  it's like look fundamentally. I believe that humans want
• 24:58
  freedom, whether that is true I'm still up to the idea that
• 25:03
  maybe I am wrong here. You know, I look around and I do
• 25:07
  realize that we are a herd mentality, you know, we are a
• 25:10
  social creature. And we do have to look around
• 25:12
  and look at, look at our friends and our tribe, and basically try
• 25:16
  to understand what's the best movement forward.
• 25:19
  But I do believe that as much as collectivism seems to be maybe
• 25:26
  like a natural phenomenon in human psychology.
• 25:29
  I do believe that humans want freedom that human seek freedom
• 25:33
  and then If you add that with the idea that we need a
• 25:37
  technology to save it, you know, fundamentally we don't, we're
• 25:42
  not moving into this utopian World in ten ten years.
• 25:46
  Like I know a lot of bitcoiners talk about like, oh man, he's
• 25:48
  going to disappear overnight and I'm like, guys, like let's not
• 25:52
  recreate the wheel here, human psychology takes a long time
• 25:56
  again, talking about exponentials takes a long time
• 25:58
  for human psychology, human behavior to change whether
• 26:01
  that's you know, 10 years, 100 years.
• 26:04
  I think we will get to a point where we look back now.
• 26:07
  And we're like, wow. We're basically living in a
• 26:09
  utopian world compared to where we are now because of our
• 26:12
  productivity because humans are able to save.
• 26:15
  But back to the idea like Bitcoin is an improvement on our
• 26:18
  money. It is an evolution of our money
• 26:20
  and fundamentally. Right now we have broken money.
• 26:23
  The technology that we use for money is is broken, it doesn't
• 26:27
  work. The only reason it's working is
• 26:28
  because we have you know people PR people out there lawyers and
• 26:33
  attorneys. Oh, and you know, the small
• 26:35
  cabal of people in control of the money that still are pulling
• 26:38
  the wool, over the eyes of the, the majority of people.
• 26:41
  And I think we're getting to a point now.
• 26:44
  And of course, I know that you can kick the can down the road a
• 26:47
  lot longer, but I think we're getting to a point now where,
• 26:50
  you know, reality will start to push back on, on the fake world
• 26:56
  that we are, you know, clown world that we live in and I
• 27:00
  really do think that, hey, you know, maybe it, maybe it's after
• 27:03
  this, having You have to next having, but there will be a
• 27:05
  point where the, you know, the central Bankers, the
• 27:08
  bureaucrats, as I like to call them the unproductive class
• 27:12
  completely lose control of the financial world.
• 27:15
  Now do they have they pulled out all the tools in the bag yet?
• 27:18
  Probably not but yeah, exactly, but I do think that slowly but
• 27:23
  surely human to our waking up to this idea of wait.
• 27:26
  Why am I being pushed so hard? Like why is why is the
• 27:30
  trajectory of humanity moving in this way?
• 27:32
  When there's The fundamental divide between what I view, as a
• 27:37
  normal individual and what the official narrative is, and I
• 27:40
  again I go back to like, I'm team human, I think humans are
• 27:44
  hopeful, I think humans do understand that.
• 27:47
  Yo, I want to guide my own life. I have a brain.
• 27:50
  I have a, you know, some sense of Common Sense here.
• 27:53
  And I can choose and pick what is best for my life.
• 27:56
  And the fact that I am getting corralled to use something that
• 27:59
  steals for me, which is the status quo, which is a broken
• 28:02
  money. Humans, will wake up to this and
• 28:05
  back to the original question. Like, are we early?
• 28:09
  I do the same. Thought experiment that Luke
• 28:11
  does. I do this every single time I go
• 28:13
  out. Look guys, I'm not perfect.
• 28:15
  I still go out and hang out with, you know, with my Bitcoin
• 28:18
  friend will go get some drinks, will go to the bar and I look
• 28:20
  around this happened without fail.
• 28:23
  Every time I go out, there's a moment when I'll sit there, I'll
• 28:26
  order you know, I'll order my tequila soda and I'll chill and
• 28:29
  I'll take a sip and I look around and I just think like,
• 28:33
  okay, how many People here, have Bitcoin and every single time
• 28:36
  without fail exactly as Luke's doing zero without fail.
• 28:40
  I default to maybe one or two people, hold a little bit of
• 28:45
  Bitcoin but then you go yeah, exactly.
• 28:48
  And then you go down but like how many of them are you know
• 28:51
  toxic Bitcoin Maxis and I'm like okay zero like there's
• 28:54
  absolutely no one I'm convinced there's no one out there that
• 28:58
  understands Bitcoin or cares about Bitcoin like we do and
• 29:02
  this is my fundamental Understanding of that were
• 29:05
  early. I go outside like I know, I know
• 29:08
  you guys don't leave your Twitter, you don't leave the the
• 29:11
  internet. Yeah, you don't leave the the
• 29:13
  black screen and you don't talk to normal people, but I don't
• 29:18
  think normal people for the majority have woken up to
• 29:20
  bitcoin. And I just I, when I go to the
• 29:22
  grocery store, you know, I still use normal.
• 29:25
  I still use Normie grocery stores, guys, I know Tomatoes,
• 29:28
  Tomatoes, but I walk around. I'm like, how many of these
• 29:30
  people have Bitcoin? Probably none?
• 29:33
  How many of them? And Bitcoin probably even
• 29:36
  smaller and then it's like, okay I know that people have heard
• 29:39
  about Bitcoin. I'm convinced that almost
• 29:41
  everyone on the planet has at the very least, heard about
• 29:44
  Bitcoin. But do they understand it?
• 29:47
  Like we do know, I know for a fact that this is the case,
• 29:50
  because I say it all the time, I know Bitcoin is like to say, oh,
• 29:53
  the Bitcoin price doesn't matter, yada yada yada.
• 29:56
  I think that's wrong. I think in the big head, like
• 29:58
  the way I look at the Bitcoin price is in my opinion, the
• 30:01
  Bitcoin price is a real-time Trigger people's understanding
• 30:05
  of what Bitcoin is. And again, I think humans value
• 30:09
  freedom, I think humans value something that they can save in
• 30:12
  and Bitcoins under 30 K right now.
• 30:15
  Like, on all metrics. It is so undervalued, it is so
• 30:19
  early and that what? Like we just said, Bitcoins a
• 30:22
  10x Improvement on gold. It's maybe five percent of
• 30:25
  Gold's market cap let alone, when we, when we go.
• 30:28
  And yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, when we go into the, Greg
• 30:31
  Faust numbers of the total addressable Market, It's like
• 30:35
  nine hundred trillion dollar, like, even if we get fractions
• 30:38
  of this, we are still early by every metric and I'm reminded of
• 30:42
  something that Luke said the last time you guys talked.
• 30:44
  And and it really stuck with me and you said looking backwards
• 30:49
  at the Bitcoin price, you can think that you're late.
• 30:52
  But looking forward, especially since none of us have a crystal
• 30:55
  ball, we have no idea where this is actually going.
• 30:58
  We, you know, we don't understand exponential's.
• 31:01
  And of course it, you know, it takes a takes a lot of energy to
• 31:03
  turn around the Titanic. But looking forward from here, I
• 31:07
  think we are going to be absolutely Blown Away by how
• 31:11
  much the SAT we have under our control right now are worth and
• 31:15
  purchasing power moving forward. It kind of again reminds me of
• 31:17
  what CK says, you know, 37 SATs for generational wealth and
• 31:21
  maybe that is Hopi. Mmm.
• 31:23
  And maybe it is. A lot of us thinking like oh
• 31:26
  we're so much smarter than we are.
• 31:27
  Like we're so much better than we are but I fundamentally think
• 31:31
  it just back to just some basic logic again.
• 31:34
  I break this down left side of the right side of the Bell.
• 31:36
  Could break this down as easy as I can.
• 31:39
  I look around, I'm gonna I'm gonna get upset every time I
• 31:42
  did. It's an Eco don't sell me too
• 31:45
  much. Don't sell me too much.
• 31:46
  I look around. And I know that most people
• 31:49
  don't have Bitcoin. And then I understand how big
• 31:53
  the total addressable Market of Bitcoin is and it's like, it on
• 31:57
  every metric. It is we're so early.
• 31:59
  It just it really, it really boils down to like the world
• 32:04
  doesn't understand what Bitcoin is and we have this opportunity.
• 32:07
  Now we get we get to usher in the next era.
• 32:09
  We are the ones that understand that Bitcoin is an improvement
• 32:13
  on our money, the evolution of money and no one knows like no
• 32:19
  one understands this and all we have to do is just evangelize
• 32:24
  Bitcoin wake people up to this get Bitcoin in people's hands
• 32:27
  and slowly but surely you know, we will be Vindicated and hey we
• 32:32
  got time. We're all young.
• 32:33
  What are you know? Where I'm 30.
• 32:35
  I'm in, you know, my early 30s, like Luke's, mid-20s Nico,
• 32:40
  you're 30, like we have all we have is time.
• 32:43
  And now, our time is valued more, because we hold Bitcoin.
• 32:47
  It's like, man, I hate to say we already won because it makes us
• 32:51
  like a pathetic, but like Bitcoin is the best technology
• 32:56
  Bitcoin will fundamentally win. The only thing that really
• 33:00
  terrifies me is this idea of you.
• 33:03
  You know, are humans, maybe a lot dumber than I give them
• 33:06
  credit for and will they be apathetic to this good idea?
• 33:09
  Because the best idea, doesn't necessarily always win but it
• 33:13
  usually does and Bitcoin is the best idea.
• 33:16
  So I think people will understand the like, the, what's
• 33:20
  that? What's that scaly said?
• 33:21
  I came for the money, but I stayed for the money, we all
• 33:24
  followed into Bitcoin and here we are afterwards.
• 33:27
  Like, oh, I am so glad I followed into Bitcoin because
• 33:30
  now, I understand what is actually going on in the world.
• 33:33
  Yeah, like after after you pay your dues and I kind of want to
• 33:37
  focus on that point up to you buried the bit the lead a bit,
• 33:40
  right? And it kind of reminds me of
• 33:42
  this question that Natalie Brunell asked Michael sailor in
• 33:47
  a coin Stories podcast and she asked him she said what keeps
• 33:52
  you up at night and I'll never forget his response.
• 33:56
  His response was people just don't care about sound money or
• 34:01
  people just don't care about money and And my girlfriend had
• 34:05
  a, very astute observation. I brought this up to Jeff voof
• 34:08
  to and he came on the show. Like, I think I scared him a
• 34:11
  little bit when I, when I said the response.
• 34:13
  But I said, you're and one of the things that I love about my
• 34:20
  girlfriend is that she, she's very intuitive.
• 34:24
  She did. It's like something that, you
• 34:25
  know, you eat most of us that go through the stop process and
• 34:28
  where they can give I was like, okay, this is how I get to this
• 34:30
  conclusion where she's just like This is what I see, and it's
• 34:35
  like, you know, it's that intuition.
• 34:37
  And she said something very similar to Michael sailor,
• 34:40
  something, very similar to Opti, just like, I think sometimes
• 34:45
  like, Niko's, like, you're right about everything, but you
• 34:48
  underestimate how stupid people are, if it's just a terrible way
• 34:52
  of saying it, I apologize. But, you know, in a way I'm
• 34:58
  thinking about what Opti was describing when he goes to a bar
• 35:01
  and he grabs his tequila so And he looks around and people are
• 35:06
  just distracted by the bread and circuses.
• 35:08
  So, I mean, Luke, how do you incorporate that into your
• 35:11
  answer? How do you incorporate that into
• 35:13
  your thinking, right? We're right, obviously we're
• 35:15
  right about Bitcoin. Obviously, Bitcoin is the
• 35:17
  soundest money. The world has ever seen, but you
• 35:19
  could have said the same argument.
• 35:20
  Communism is definitely a bad idea.
• 35:23
  You know, the incentives are not aligned economically, it's
• 35:26
  unviable but holy thing that think does not go away, right?
• 35:30
  You know, you still have Cuba North Korea.
• 35:33
  That's just their full balls to the wall.
• 35:35
  That's they're attempting to make it happen.
• 35:38
  So what about that? Luke?
• 35:40
  What about just human nature in general?
• 35:43
  Does Bitcoin need everybody? Well, there is a lot there
• 35:48
  between you guys. That was a lot of diapers to
• 35:51
  take a note. So yeah, a lot of things to
• 35:54
  think about coming out, like everything you just touched on.
• 35:56
  It is so hard because we just start going.
• 35:59
  It's like there's 10 different rabbit Trails there.
• 36:00
  It's just, you can't even get halfway through one of them in a
• 36:03
  90-minute podcast. But anyway, yeah.
• 36:06
  So your question, like, about human nature, basically.
• 36:11
  If Bitcoins biggest threat, is that people don't care about
• 36:13
  sound money. And I think Michael Sailors,
• 36:14
  right? People just do not care.
• 36:17
  I think, I think there's two ways to look at that they were
• 36:20
  that are not to build off each other.
• 36:22
  I think one way is just again, go back to exponential's in
• 36:26
  think, backwards, and remember that, most people don't care
• 36:29
  about Solutions because most people don't realize that these
• 36:33
  Solutions are solutions to problem, this, don't even exist
• 36:36
  yet, you know, like a hundred years ago, one of the biggest
• 36:39
  problems was that there wasn't enough nitrogen.
• 36:41
  You know, there was a good enough, nitrogen to feed the
• 36:43
  world and everyone thought it's going to be Global famine.
• 36:47
  We're going to have to cut down all the trees in the world and
• 36:49
  plant all these crops because there's just not going to be
• 36:51
  enough. Nitrogen is going to be
• 36:52
  overpopulation. It's going to collapse UMass
• 36:54
  famine, you know, just basically doomsday and it's like, well,
• 37:01
  essentially the fritz Haber process with nitrogen,
• 37:03
  everything that sort basically, is allowed us to have an extra
• 37:06
  four billion humans alive today on the planet.
• 37:10
  And actually most people don't realize this, but now we're
• 37:12
  using less force and where your, when we were in the past in the
• 37:15
  recent past and we're In were cutting down less trees in order
• 37:19
  for crops and everything like so it's so it's my point being.
• 37:22
  How do you explain somebody in the 1400s?
• 37:25
  Or how do you explain to somebody that doesn't know
• 37:28
  anything about chemistry because it's not been discovered yet the
• 37:31
  significance and the importance of discovering a given procedure
• 37:36
  in creating nitrogen and putting it back to the soda figure.
• 37:38
  It's like you can't explain these solutions to people to
• 37:41
  pass because they can't they can't picture the problems you
• 37:44
  know likewise you can't again the look Emotive versus the
• 37:47
  horse. You can't explain the
• 37:49
  significance of the locomotive to people that are only thinking
• 37:52
  in terms of horse problems, it's just you can't do it.
• 37:55
  And that's why I think a lot of it is stupidity, especially with
• 38:00
  certain people, perhaps but I think more than anything it's
• 38:03
  just that it's hard to communicate different eras and
• 38:07
  that's why I emphasize ancient world modern world.
• 38:08
  So I think that's one component is just that humans have trouble
• 38:10
  understanding what I think. The second component regarding
• 38:14
  human nature is that I believe that all human.
• 38:17
  Have a fallen nature. One of the things up to you is
• 38:19
  talking about with Desiring freedom and the great irony in
• 38:22
  that is, you know, I'm a Christian.
• 38:24
  And so I believe, you know, the the in Genesis about when Adam
• 38:28
  and Eve took the fruit, I mean, what were they really doing?
• 38:31
  They were craving Freedom. They were taking the fruit and
• 38:34
  saying we reject. God's truth, who reject God's
• 38:37
  Authority? You know, I don't want to get
• 38:39
  all theological here, but it's basically the same idea that we
• 38:42
  want to be in charge. We want to have her own Freedom,
• 38:44
  we don't want to submit ourselves to God, we do Want we
• 38:47
  want to obey, we want to disobey and do her own thing.
• 38:49
  So, I think you're right, not even just a philosophical or
• 38:52
  historical sense of people want freedom.
• 38:54
  I think it's true in a spiritual and a theological sense to, but
• 38:58
  that's all I'll say about that. But I think ultimately because
• 39:01
  of that because our desire for that freedom and our desire, I
• 39:06
  would argue all as well, for corruption is so deep.
• 39:09
  That as long as we have the ability to force that corruption
• 39:13
  onto the world and force it on to others.
• 39:16
  If we are able To do that, eventually it's going to happen
• 39:19
  because even if we're righteous and even if we're, you know,
• 39:22
  goody two shoes or whatever and we don't we don't hurt other
• 39:26
  people with our own power that we have eventually someone's
• 39:29
  going to do that. It's like a hundred percent
• 39:30
  certainty and so you mentioned North Korea.
• 39:33
  You know you have all the people in China and people in other
• 39:36
  areas of the world to that are under just incredible amounts of
• 39:39
  tyranny. And I think the difference with
• 39:42
  Bitcoin to all these other tools is that we have Yet found a way
• 39:48
  at which humans can gain control of Bitcoin.
• 39:50
  Again. We haven't yet found a way in
• 39:52
  which people using Bitcoin or operating within Bitcoin can
• 39:55
  exploit it to corrupt it and damage other people or harm
• 40:00
  other people both in terms of their finances non-violently and
• 40:03
  also violently. And I think that's the really
• 40:06
  important distinction with Bitcoin to all these other
• 40:08
  Technologies. And I think that's the really
• 40:11
  key point that most people don't understand why the Bitcoin is so
• 40:14
  passionate. It's like that's the big deal.
• 40:16
  The big All is it for what seems to be the first time in history.
• 40:20
  We have a technology that its own operation and survival is
• 40:24
  inherently separated, from humans, desire to corrupt
• 40:28
  things. And so yeah, I think it's a real
• 40:31
  problem that people don't care about some money and I think
• 40:33
  it's a real problem that people are corrupt But ultimately I
• 40:35
  think the design of Bitcoin is that it's designed to function
• 40:38
  and not harm anyone, even if all the actors within the network
• 40:43
  are trying to harm each other and I think that's why Jason
• 40:46
  Lowry for example. With his software thesis, which
• 40:48
  is very controversial. I think that's like one of the
• 40:51
  really important pieces of the Bitcoin thesis is understanding
• 40:54
  its incentive structure, changed Warfare and violence in general.
• 41:00
  So and I said a lot there but and I have more thoughts to but
• 41:03
  other things you said but that's that's just my basic view on
• 41:06
  that. I have a couple more thoughts,
• 41:08
  on some things. Opti said if you want me to get
• 41:10
  into those yeah I would love you.
• 41:12
  I know, but first, I've never thought of that way in life.
• 41:17
  Theological sense. But I'm definitely going to be
• 41:19
  using that moving forward, but jump in add more.
• 41:22
  Yeah, no, yeah, that's that's where it is.
• 41:23
  You know, Abby what in Freedom and you know, people that's, you
• 41:26
  know, I on Twitter, I both make it now.
• 41:28
  I'm a Bitcoin and Christians, like that's one of the things
• 41:30
  that people, you know, are Christians, talk about is like
• 41:32
  your slave to God and you will be handed.
• 41:34
  Anyways, it's like this fascinating connection between
• 41:38
  pride and freedom and but anyway, that's yeah, that you
• 41:41
  can have a bunch of rabbit hole. I mean, let's let's explore
• 41:44
  those rabbit holes. This is we're going to release
• 41:46
  this on Saturday. Day.
• 41:47
  So, you know, for anyone? Hold on top, do you take this?
• 41:54
  Well, I don't know where you're going with this one but we
• 41:58
  ignore Nico. Luke.
• 42:00
  What were your other thoughts and well I will jump off that
• 42:02
  because I do have I do have no. Okay sorry very important
• 42:06
  conversation right? Really back in we're pivoting
• 42:09
  back, just like Jay Powell. Okay.
• 42:13
  Yeah. Right.
• 42:13
  Turn on the money. Printers Opti.
• 42:17
  Abdi and I are Christians to do great.
• 42:19
  Okay. We'll just keep it to ourselves.
• 42:21
  We don't we don't really say anything.
• 42:23
  But I mean it's a very interesting topic.
• 42:28
  It's because it's kind of like a theological topic, right?
• 42:31
  And I think the reason that for example, Luke, I keep it to
• 42:35
  myself, is because the moment, you say, your Christian things
• 42:41
  happen, things happen, right? And your interpreted differently
• 42:45
  and people look at you. Differently, right?
• 42:48
  You know it's like Bitcoin is a buzzword, whenever you say,
• 42:51
  Bitcoin everyone in the financial space has an opinion
• 42:53
  and like their brains shut off more or less.
• 42:56
  And I would argue it's similar with Jesus Christ.
• 42:58
  It's like, you say the name and people have their own opinions
• 43:02
  and you know, I mean, obviously they're very different certain
• 43:05
  regards but yeah, I get what I get what you're saying that
• 43:07
  people have reactions, but but, but yeah, even if someone isn't
• 43:13
  a Christian, I think there's a real discussion here because
• 43:16
  Christians How do you survive for thousands of years?
• 43:17
  And so, even if you don't believe the book itself, I think
• 43:21
  there's something really important.
• 43:22
  There's like, what is the basis of the Bible is basically saying
• 43:27
  that humans are to submit themselves to higher power,
• 43:30
  which obviously, in Christian doctrines, God.
• 43:34
  But what, what is bitcoin promising to solve?
• 43:37
  Well, if money is a technology, which we value, everything else
• 43:41
  in society, then somebody coming in and saying, I can print money
• 43:46
  is Is them saying, I am God within this Paradigm, dudes.
• 43:50
  I think creating money out of nothing.
• 43:52
  Let there be light. I am making something out of
• 43:54
  nothing. I can violate physics.
• 43:55
  I can do what I want. I can I can reap without sewing.
• 44:00
  That's, that's what theaters is Bitcoin is?
• 44:02
  Bitcoin is saying no, nobody can do that.
• 44:07
  Morally, nobody can do that in accordance with the way reality
• 44:10
  works, in the way that God designed the universe.
• 44:11
  So, dude, So I've tweeted that before ours, I said
• 44:19
  specifically, I said no one deserves the Godlike power of
• 44:22
  being able to create money for free.
• 44:24
  That another man has to work with work for and what are the
• 44:28
  misalignment of incentives? When that happens, right?
• 44:31
  What are the misalignment of incentives?
• 44:33
  And, you know, the Luke. I'm sure you're very familiar
• 44:37
  with this line, absolute power corrupts, absolutely and what
• 44:40
  type of Godlike power. Do you does a does a mortal man
• 44:44
  possess? When they Have the ability to
• 44:47
  basically create money out of thin air, right?
• 44:50
  And yeah, yeah, it's just, it's a fascinating conversation.
• 44:56
  As you can use that money to acquire anything in this world.
• 44:58
  So it's your, it's like if I'm can print money, then basically
• 45:01
  I can print houses and I can print food and it's like it's
• 45:05
  anyway like I think we've made the point but yet this desire
• 45:08
  for free ends desire for corruption.
• 45:09
  That's desire for these things, I think is ultimately why we
• 45:13
  continue to see tyrannies and dictatorships today and that's
• 45:16
  the beauty. The Bitcoin is that the coin
• 45:17
  doesn't solve human, the human heart, but Bitcoin does detach
• 45:22
  it from money and money is underpinning layer of society.
• 45:26
  And so, if you can do that, the implications are really
• 45:30
  profound. So I want to get your take on
• 45:33
  this, right, because I said this actually said this in the thank
• 45:38
  God for Bitcoin spaces. Today I said Bitcoin is
• 45:42
  connected to reality to the universe via proof of work.
• 45:46
  Right. It's fundamentally connected to
• 45:48
  the truth and I the interesting phenomenon that I've seen over
• 45:56
  the last, you know, literally year 7 for me and Bitcoin
• 46:01
  heading into your eight very soon.
• 46:04
  Congrats on your birthday. And one of the things that one
• 46:08
  of the interesting phenomenon that I've noticed is how Bitcoin
• 46:14
  has actually put made people more faithful and they're in
• 46:18
  their cultural practice of Faith, right?
• 46:20
  Because if you happen to be born anywhere around the world,
• 46:23
  right? If you happen to be born in a
• 46:25
  Muslim country, your practices face is probably Islam.
• 46:28
  You happen to be born in Latin America like Opti and I, you
• 46:31
  know, you're most likely Catholic, right?
• 46:33
  If you happen to be born in, you know, in the United States.
• 46:36
  You're most likely, you know, all the other denominations,
• 46:41
  right? Oh, what a one of the
• 46:44
  denomination's, right? If you happen to be born in
• 46:46
  Asia, you know, you're most likely a Buddhist, right?
• 46:49
  You know, if you happen to be born in mainland China, you
• 46:52
  know. I think it's atheism, but it's
• 46:54
  interesting though, is that religion is still very, very
• 46:57
  popular in mainland China, even though the state religion is
• 47:00
  atheism. So, you know, it's kind of like,
• 47:04
  when they say that there are no covid cases there.
• 47:09
  It's kind of like the same thing.
• 47:10
  There's no questions, there's no Muslims there.
• 47:12
  Yeah. No, that's it.
• 47:14
  There's a ton of Christians. There's a ton of Muslims and
• 47:16
  it's interesting, right? Because what tends to happen is
• 47:19
  like, no, I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole.
• 47:22
  Anyways, let's bring it down to bitcoin.
• 47:24
  Let's bring it back. Let's bring it back to bitcoin.
• 47:27
  So have you noticed that pattern or am I seeing things that are
• 47:30
  not there? No.
• 47:32
  Yeah, I think you're right. And I think obviously, since
• 47:35
  we're Christians are speaking with that specifically, but even
• 47:37
  for those aren't Christians, I think we all can agree that as
• 47:42
  We talked more people within Bitcoin and we're in the space
• 47:44
  longer and longer, we see that a larger percentage within the
• 47:49
  Bitcoin space become more spiritual, enlightened pursue
• 47:54
  religion, find Jesus. You know, they're thinking about
• 47:58
  these long things and why is that fundamentally happening?
• 48:01
  It's happening. I think, for multiple reasons, I
• 48:03
  think. One reason is that they realize
• 48:04
  that their understanding of reality has been destroyed.
• 48:06
  They realize, oh wait, my whole life working for 40 years or my
• 48:09
  whole, my all my existence, make more money.
• 48:12
  And that's a lie, that the money I've been working for the, which
• 48:16
  I did nominate all my time, and all my value, all my expenses,
• 48:19
  and all my incomes and is actually just a complete life.
• 48:22
  So I think that foundational like whoa, that waking up from
• 48:27
  the Matrix that we talked about, I think that really puts people
• 48:29
  in a spot where they begin to question other things.
• 48:33
  I think that's also why we see bitcoiners have a tendency
• 48:36
  towards other conspiracy theories.
• 48:40
  Some of which are possibly probably Biblia, Jewett and
• 48:43
  others are a little out there but it's the same thing.
• 48:46
  I think it's because our worldviews been shown.
• 48:48
  So shattered that now, we're trying to make sense of this new
• 48:51
  world, that we understand a Bitcoins, big part of that,
• 48:53
  definitely. But some people find the rest
• 48:55
  that new understanding in conspiracy theories, others, and
• 48:59
  religion others in taking care of their bodies.
• 49:02
  You know, people also like to try to lose weight for the first
• 49:05
  time after after becoming a bit quite.
• 49:07
  So I think people Express that in different ways.
• 49:10
  I think it's just because Bitcoin extends our time Horizon
• 49:13
  In addition to already having them question their worldview
• 49:16
  and I think ultimately that is going to prove to be a very good
• 49:19
  thing. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 49:22
  And you know, the awesome part about Bitcoin to, right?
• 49:25
  And he's, we've been talking a lot about Christianity's that
• 49:27
  it's inclusive, right? And that that's the beautiful
• 49:30
  part, right? Is that it's not exclusive right
• 49:32
  at whatsoever. It doesn't actually doesn't
• 49:35
  really matter what you believe in.
• 49:37
  You know, you can use Bitcoin and, and I think it really, it
• 49:41
  really, It's people differently. And, you know, some people that
• 49:45
  it's what you said, right? FC Doyle's no more.
• 49:49
  I'm going to start eating. Just all carnivores.
• 49:51
  Some people are like, let me let me let me get my body fit.
• 49:54
  Some people are like I found God again you know it just but it
• 49:57
  exactly like once you break that Fiat Matrix and you start to
• 50:03
  realize you know we've all been down this Rabbit Hole.
• 50:05
  The first couple of years that you're in Bitcoin you start
• 50:07
  having like you don't understand and then and it's like youyou go
• 50:11
  to your loved ones and you're like but Don't get it and
• 50:13
  they're like if you're fucking insane, like, leave me alone.
• 50:16
  Your eyes are freaking crazy. It's just money.
• 50:20
  That's like, no, but he'd understand.
• 50:22
  It's not just the money. It affects every facet of life,
• 50:26
  right? And then you just kind of like
• 50:27
  go down that rabbit hole after you want to add to that and then
• 50:30
  we'll pass I mean--can. Like you kind of reminded me
• 50:34
  like right there. It's really that like coming to
• 50:37
  Jesus moment when you when you find Bitcoin you're just like oh
• 50:41
  my God. And I remember John Valles kind
• 50:44
  of said the same thing a long time ago.
• 50:46
  And when I like, it's like the first part I ever went on.
• 50:49
  He was kind of connecting it with like the Psychedelic
• 50:52
  journey and how like people that do psychedelics they finally
• 50:54
  they have like this profound breakthrough and then the like
• 50:57
  like you can have this too and it's like it's all this kind of
• 51:00
  the same, same thing. Like I really do believe, you
• 51:03
  know, and that is content just a belief but I really do believe
• 51:06
  that humans whether they want to or not have this this need for
• 51:12
  Luke said something something the Beyond is like a spiritual
• 51:15
  need. There's you know, the the
• 51:20
  Trinity, you know, like body mind and soul.
• 51:23
  Like I do believe in like nourishing your soul.
• 51:26
  And like there is there's a very real lack of that you know,
• 51:31
  material that that information in the world and it's almost
• 51:34
  been on purpose and like Nico, you kind of said it, you know,
• 51:37
  like we bring in a full circle if we have an energy money Which
• 51:43
  right now we're on the Fiat money, which is I always say
• 51:46
  it's like completely disconnected from reality.
• 51:48
  It's like Road Runner and Coyote like yeah if yeah if you're
• 51:53
  opposite of Truth and exactly you're running off the cliff and
• 51:57
  we're at that point where it's like you're looking down at your
• 51:59
  feet and like, oh my God we are so disconnected from reality.
• 52:02
  That every aspect of your being starts to get reorganized around
• 52:08
  reality and you kind of come back and you snap back really
• 52:11
  hard to reality. Seeing this happen right now,
• 52:13
  what we've seen seven bank failures in the last two months
• 52:16
  or whatever and is this cuz of Bitcoin or is it just because we
• 52:21
  have bitcoiners it, just because Fiat system is just, you know,
• 52:23
  finally smacking the wall of reality.
• 52:25
  It's probably all of this. But we are coming back to
• 52:29
  reality in real time. And at least for us, we have
• 52:33
  this, you know, this tool. We have this money, we have an
• 52:36
  escape valve. We have, we have a safety boat,
• 52:38
  which is Bitcoin. And I've said, in the past, as a
• 52:42
  Wheat and it's just an idea. I don't really write much but
• 52:44
  when I do right it's always always with this like spiritual
• 52:48
  change and it was Satoshi found a way to domesticate human greed
• 52:52
  and Anika is kind of pushback on that.
• 52:54
  But it's like back to the idea if you have the the almighty
• 52:59
  godly power of printing, money, out of out, of thin air and
• 53:02
  being able to purchase everything because you're close
• 53:05
  to the money printer, well, what is that inherently Guided by it,
• 53:09
  it's but Guided by, you know, the lust for power, the last for
• 53:12
  greed. And now it's basically you know,
• 53:15
  whether it's divine intervention in this question, I wanted to
• 53:18
  ask Luke whether it's divine intervention or not, it's
• 53:21
  Saturday show, fuck this up. It's definitely, it's definitely
• 53:25
  something outside of human, you know, Behavior outside of like,
• 53:31
  like Luke said, you know, outside of, of humans hand to
• 53:36
  basically destroy destroy and distort, what is good and
• 53:40
  whether human, you know, like, obviously it's It's a human
• 53:43
  invention, but it takes the power of humans out of the money
• 53:46
  and maybe that's what we need as humans is something that's just
• 53:50
  completely separate to us. Instilling good action in US,
• 53:54
  incentivizing, good action. So it's like look, I know, I
• 53:57
  know, I know you are a wretched little human but here we have a
• 54:03
  technology in a tool that basically puts you in your place
• 54:06
  so that you don't step out of line so that you are connected
• 54:09
  to reality. And I think back to like Idea
• 54:13
  of, you know, bitcoiners coming to God or whatever because I
• 54:17
  definitely had this more, like a very real spiritual awakening.
• 54:22
  I guess you would say, like, before I had it, but now I'm
• 54:25
  just like, yeah, I'm very adamant.
• 54:27
  Like, yeah, I believe in God. Like, yeah, it's very simple.
• 54:30
  It's kind of dry now, but it's back to the same idea.
• 54:33
  Look, Fiat, money has been completely disconnected from
• 54:36
  reality. Well, I think our society, our
• 54:39
  culture has also been disconnected from a source and
• 54:44
  Bitcoin is a connection back to energy back to the source.
• 54:49
  And I think this is just a way whether it's divine intervention
• 54:52
  or not. I don't know.
• 54:53
  I like to say it is because I like to think of the most like
• 54:56
  ridiculous out their thoughts and just like adopt that me
• 54:58
  like, yeah, that's what it is. I think there is a very real
• 55:04
  need to connect us back to reality and you know what would
• 55:08
  most Christians say like God is reality like this is this is
• 55:11
  fundamentally where we are God. Energy, God is the universe and
• 55:15
  God is truth. God is truth.
• 55:17
  And what is bitcoin? Bitcoin is truth.
• 55:18
  Bitcoin is energy and its connecting as back to this
• 55:21
  reality. And furthermore the reason I
• 55:24
  know we are right is because all of us bitcoiners are happy
• 55:28
  prospering getting healthy, living a good life, living a
• 55:31
  life that our ancestors are telling us.
• 55:33
  You should be living. And we always been like, now,
• 55:35
  we're smart were modern, you know, with our modern ways.
• 55:38
  And now we're kind of like going full circle back into
• 55:41
  Traditions, like wait actually. Ali, maybe they had something
• 55:44
  right, and maybe we should be a little more in accord with
• 55:47
  nature and reality. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
• 55:50
  say this before, we pass it on to Luke, right?
• 55:53
  I think that, you know, specifically, Because there was
• 55:59
  broken money and even with the institutions of religion, I
• 56:03
  think those institutions themselves got corrupted, right?
• 56:07
  And I think that there is a lot of Oppression because of those
• 56:12
  things, which definitely led to a lot of people in during some
• 56:19
  difficult things, right? And I want to be empathetic to
• 56:23
  that. I want to be like very clear and
• 56:24
  like kind of lay that out. Since we're going down this
• 56:28
  ranking rabbit hole, which I literally avoid but it is the
• 56:32
  Saturday special, you're welcome.
• 56:34
  Yeah, yeah. So yeah.
• 56:38
  I mean, Luke Bitcoin is truth. That is that?
• 56:44
  That is a fact, right? It's the you can't deny that.
• 56:47
  Bitcoin is not the truth. I actually even tweeted that out
• 56:51
  Bitcoin is truth and that was, you know, before it was ever
• 56:54
  talked about on Twitter and did really, really Well which tells
• 56:57
  me a lot of people were having that thought right?
• 57:01
  That Bitcoin is truth, right? And I want to be respectful to
• 57:04
  anybody in their beliefs and you know however which way they you
• 57:07
  know, they practice faith and how they look at spirituality or
• 57:10
  whether you don't believe in anything at all.
• 57:13
  Bitcoin is for you. And I think that because Bitcoin
• 57:18
  is fundamentally truth and I think because Bitcoin is
• 57:21
  fundamentally connected to reality regardless of what your
• 57:25
  belief system is or whether you believe in a higher power, you
• 57:29
  don't believe in a higher power. You're definitely operating on a
• 57:34
  to you CK's language. You're definitely using a better
• 57:38
  operating system than you were using before regardless of
• 57:44
  whatever your personal beliefs are.
• 57:46
  You know, of course, as you know, As what our personal
• 57:49
  faiths are Luke. We interpret that in a very
• 57:52
  specific way. Anyways, this isn't fascinating
• 57:57
  and interesting conversation. Yeah, no, it's really good.
• 58:00
  I think, one point disagreement, I have with Unicode would be
• 58:02
  that you said that some people don't believe in anything.
• 58:06
  I would argue that. I think everyone has a belief in
• 58:08
  something. Even if their don't believe in a
• 58:10
  God, that everyone has a belief system that they Orient their
• 58:14
  lives upon, even if it's complete nihilism, it's a belief
• 58:16
  system, I think. And that's One of the reasons
• 58:18
  why it's funny when people get upset at me and other people in
• 58:21
  line for talking about our personal belief systems, it's
• 58:23
  like you know, I wish you wouldn't talk about Jesus, I
• 58:26
  wish you wouldn't talk about your belief system, it's like
• 58:27
  okay, be we all have a belief system, we might as well talk
• 58:31
  about it, so you know where someone's coming from you don't
• 58:33
  have to guess it and try and pretend like you can avoid your
• 58:38
  statements and your thesis and your conclusions from your
• 58:40
  belief system. Like I just think it's more or
• 58:42
  less silly. But anyway that's more of a side
• 58:44
  comment. Let's see what the other.
• 58:47
  Oh, the other question was Do I think that coins divine
• 58:50
  intervention? Right?
• 58:51
  That was a question. Yeah.
• 58:53
  II don't know. I don't think so.
• 58:56
  And that's simply because to me. It just seems to be a piece of
• 58:59
  technology I made was gutenberg's.
• 59:01
  Printing, press divine intervention.
• 59:02
  I mean, it, you know, he was doing it to mass-produce Bibles
• 59:06
  and how many billions of people have had Bibles in their hands
• 59:09
  because of his invention? I mean, it's a big deal and was
• 59:14
  that divine intervention? I don't know.
• 59:15
  Maybe, I think everything is I think I saw her and I think
• 59:20
  hours. He's also, I definitely think
• 59:21
  God ordained the printing presses and Bitcoins of engines,
• 59:25
  but I don't know. I don't agree with Max Keiser.
• 59:29
  I don't think Bitcoin and Satoshi Our God or, you know,
• 59:32
  I'm not, I'm not in that train, you know, Bitcoin is technology
• 59:36
  and it's wonderful, but I don't think it's a God.
• 59:39
  But yeah, anyway, I guess I have a couple closing thoughts.
• 59:42
  I guess it is wrapped so much. Yeah.
• 59:48
  I guess, I guess the first thing you say, we're talking about
• 59:50
  absolutes earlier and I think something important to say
• 59:53
  building off of everything, we've been saying about human
• 59:55
  nature and exponential's or anything like that.
• 59:57
  I think one thing that's really important I've said in other
• 59:59
  shows, I don't know if I've said on this one but I think it's
• 1:00:02
  crucial to emphasize that if this is correct, it has to get
• 1:00:06
  worse. Like the current system has to
• 1:00:08
  get worse. Because again, if we understand
• 1:00:14
  the current Global monetary and therefore economic system From
• 1:00:18
  this lens. Well, Jerome, Powell Janet
• 1:00:21
  Yellen, you know, all these people are essentially gods of
• 1:00:25
  these systems of this system and because they are God's of the
• 1:00:30
  system that come out onto their altars, you know, their podiums,
• 1:00:33
  and they declare, if you know what's going to change.
• 1:00:34
  Now we're going to change the values.
• 1:00:37
  We're going to change the structure of everyone's value or
• 1:00:40
  you know it's the same thing. In the same way that pagan gods
• 1:00:43
  of ancient religions are the same way that a polytheistic
• 1:00:47
  religions are the same way. That God of monotheistic,
• 1:00:49
  religions comes out, and decrees rules.
• 1:00:52
  It's the same thing that these Central Bankers do and because
• 1:00:56
  they're human, because these positions exist because these
• 1:00:59
  altars of sacrifice exist, you know, it has to get worse.
• 1:01:03
  Money is information. And if the money is surviving as
• 1:01:08
  a function of distortion of Truth and Distortion of reality,
• 1:01:12
  it's like it can't come back to reality without collapsing and
• 1:01:16
  it can only can continue to serve.
• 1:01:18
  Survive if it's further devoid from reality, so it's like you
• 1:01:20
  don't people in. This is why I think there's such
• 1:01:23
  a stark divide between the bitcoiners that are like trying
• 1:01:26
  to find truth and like, have an optimistic view because their
• 1:01:29
  time preference is lower, or is everyone else's more pessimistic
• 1:01:32
  the new cycle, so pessimistic and so absurd.
• 1:01:34
  And ultimates just why is it? It's because if you're in this
• 1:01:38
  value system where you have a monetary component, its
• 1:01:42
  surviving with all these human gods and all humans are
• 1:01:45
  corrupted. And this moral sense, I mean, it
• 1:01:47
  has to It worse, it money to information it, survives, the
• 1:01:50
  misinformation. It has to get worse.
• 1:01:52
  The amount of centralization has to get worse, the wealth
• 1:01:56
  inequality, being distorted from natural wealth distribution that
• 1:01:59
  has to get worse. The political sphere has to get
• 1:02:01
  worse. You know, it in every, speaking
• 1:02:04
  of masks absolutes, if Bitcoin survives everything outside of
• 1:02:07
  it, has to get worse, for the users within it.
• 1:02:10
  And within Bitcoin, everything is almost certain and I would
• 1:02:12
  argue, absolutely has to get better because everyone that
• 1:02:15
  joins in can only We have wealth and build within that system if
• 1:02:21
  they provide value to other people within that system.
• 1:02:24
  So it's like it he really has to get better.
• 1:02:27
  So I think it's something really important to emphasize for folks
• 1:02:31
  and I think and I get asked a lot, why do I put in the work
• 1:02:35
  and do all these shows and whatever and we were talking
• 1:02:38
  about psychology earlier? I think It ultimately comes to
• 1:02:40
  that this discussion we're having which is way out there.
• 1:02:46
  I think, I forgot. I think was Opti that said,
• 1:02:48
  Earlier but basically that human psychology will eventually catch
• 1:02:51
  up and it's going to be, you know, not a decade whatever and
• 1:02:54
  I think my I agree it probably won't be super fast but I think
• 1:02:58
  one point of at one point to add there.
• 1:03:01
  I think that all three of us have probably ever within the
• 1:03:04
  Bitcoin space fails to realize is that at a certain point,
• 1:03:08
  people are going to beginning to adopt Bitcoin and not even
• 1:03:11
  understand why they're adopting it.
• 1:03:13
  Everyone adopting Bitcoin right now is putting in the work and
• 1:03:16
  thinking it through and putting in time.
• 1:03:18
  It's like most people don't think and most people are going
• 1:03:21
  to adopt this without understanding what's happening.
• 1:03:24
  And so if we think in our minds like wow like me Unicode took
• 1:03:28
  you seven years I guess for me it took about four years or
• 1:03:30
  whatever. I don't, how long took you up
• 1:03:32
  you but it's like for us it takes years you know.
• 1:03:34
  So it's like if adoption is to double from now into the next
• 1:03:38
  iteration of time, you don't say next four years, you know,
• 1:03:41
  that's a lot of intellectual thought that takes time for
• 1:03:45
  people to adopt in. This is why I am so continuously
• 1:03:51
  emphasizing people to get off zero even if they don't like
• 1:03:53
  Bitcoin is just because I am very confident that if certain
• 1:03:57
  point there's going to be a Tipping Point where the only
• 1:04:00
  remaining people left are those people that just follow the herd
• 1:04:05
  and that's not putting them down, that's not saying they're
• 1:04:07
  all stupid or whatever else just saying that the speed is only
• 1:04:11
  going to increase and the the realization once you have that.
• 1:04:18
  Is that basically, it becomes obvious that were early because
• 1:04:21
  the only people paying attention right now have to be early just
• 1:04:23
  by Game Theory. It's like, if you have, you
• 1:04:26
  know, oscillating down here and then you just have, you know,
• 1:04:29
  the hyper J curve or whatever. It's like, well, of course,
• 1:04:32
  literally everyone in the Bitcoin space right now, buying
• 1:04:35
  Bitcoin has to be absurdly early like, just like, in particularly
• 1:04:41
  early because that's the only way it could.
• 1:04:43
  Because there's before-and-afters befor Mass
• 1:04:45
  adoption where the people that are following her.
• 1:04:48
  Kelly Art here and when they're here including the Nation States
• 1:04:51
  including the Sovereign wealth funds.
• 1:04:52
  And so, anyway, I think that's really important and I guess, I
• 1:04:56
  guess one little fun accounting thing to one fun, numerical
• 1:05:00
  trick in your mind and think about the never satoshi's and
• 1:05:02
  each block and then divide it by number of humans.
• 1:05:05
  It's, you know, it's it's Quaid we're still early.
• 1:05:10
  This is yes and it's important to emphasize that because, you
• 1:05:14
  know, people ask why you have a size, it's early.
• 1:05:15
  You have to emphasize that because if You don't people will
• 1:05:19
  assume, they're too early because we think in linear
• 1:05:21
  terms, not exponential terms and then they'll walk away.
• 1:05:23
  And it's like, people have to understand that the only people
• 1:05:27
  here right now are stupidly early and at a certain point,
• 1:05:30
  it's like adoption will outpace the rate of psychological change
• 1:05:33
  and then it'll just be done. Yep, I love it.
• 1:05:36
  And well I want to jump in here. Want to jump in here.
• 1:05:40
  Tied up up T. Yeah, I think to the last Point
• 1:05:43
  Luke said the like emphasizing we're so early is because what
• 1:05:47
  didn't Do most people think when they're like, oh, we're early to
• 1:05:50
  this, like, oh, I have time, I don't have to look into this
• 1:05:52
  right now and and, you know, like what, what did we do?
• 1:05:56
  Well, we probably saw the prize pot.
• 1:05:58
  I got in Bitcoin, a 10K, I've been in Bitcoin if I'm going on
• 1:06:01
  my 6 year, I saw jump at 10K and what did I think?
• 1:06:05
  Oh my God, I am late to this. How, how can I be late to this,
• 1:06:09
  this crazy phenomenon happening? And I like, basically, I have no
• 1:06:13
  time. Like, I better understand this
• 1:06:15
  now or else, you know, I am missing.
• 1:06:18
  Missing the opportunity of a lifetime that I know all that
• 1:06:20
  you know in the three seconds when I like finally made my
• 1:06:23
  decision. It's like no but some
• 1:06:25
  consciously we know a lot and to the point that you made before
• 1:06:28
  Luke, I've been having the same conversation with with some of
• 1:06:32
  my friends. It's this idea of I really don't
• 1:06:35
  think that going forward. Obviously we've seen this play
• 1:06:38
  out recently like the the amount of bitcoiners toxic Maxi
• 1:06:43
  bitcoiners that have became Bitcoin or since 2020 on the one
• 1:06:47
  hand is Kudos to all the Bitcoin, only content creators
• 1:06:50
  out there. But also this idea that like
• 1:06:53
  it's never been safer than today to be holding Bitcoin.
• 1:06:56
  And as we move out in time, I don't think everyone's going to
• 1:07:00
  have to do that. You know, hundred the ten
• 1:07:03
  thousand plus hours to understand Bitcoin.
• 1:07:05
  It'll just be like, a ubiquitous thing.
• 1:07:07
  That's a part of society. It's like, do people have like
• 1:07:10
  two children today? Young kids, do they have to
• 1:07:14
  study the internet to know that they're, you know, connected to
• 1:07:17
  their net. Flicks like no, they just use
• 1:07:19
  the apps and and they're already on it and it kind of reminds me
• 1:07:22
  of something that Beauty on. Oh, he says and I know Beauty, a
• 1:07:25
  beauty on gets a lot of, a lot of a lot of hate on Twitter, but
• 1:07:29
  I absolutely love the way that he thinks about it.
• 1:07:31
  Not only is he a little older than us.
• 1:07:32
  He's seen these types of Cycles, technology Cycles play out.
• 1:07:36
  But he always talks about the idea of WhatsApp and do the
• 1:07:41
  millions or billions of people that are using Whatsapp,
• 1:07:43
  understand that there that all their information, all their
• 1:07:46
  Communications is in, Cryptid. It's like no, they don't care.
• 1:07:49
  They're just using it because it's a simple, user experience.
• 1:07:53
  All their friends are on it. They downloaded, they're able to
• 1:07:55
  communicate their able to do what they know they want to do
• 1:07:59
  and I don't think we are necessarily there with Bitcoin
• 1:08:01
  yet. But as we move further in time
• 1:08:05
  we're going to get that same phenomenon happened.
• 1:08:07
  People just download wallets. They understand that.
• 1:08:09
  It's a normal aspect of society. They don't have to do the ten
• 1:08:13
  thousand plus hours to understand Bitcoin.
• 1:08:15
  It's just like, oh yeah. Bitcoin of course like yeah just
• 1:08:17
  said, Me some Bitcoin. And as we move further out in
• 1:08:20
  time, we're going to be the crazy ones that people like what
• 1:08:22
  you spent, how long trying to understand Bitcoin, like I just
• 1:08:26
  downloaded a wallet. Like, what are you talking
• 1:08:27
  about? It's like, you know, I spent
• 1:08:29
  years trying to understand Bitcoin and now we're getting to
• 1:08:31
  this point where that not only is the information.
• 1:08:33
  So good like the Bitcoin only content the the way of spreading
• 1:08:37
  the message getting that much better, we are all refining on
• 1:08:40
  the Bitcoin meme, so that people understand what's going on, but
• 1:08:43
  the longer, it goes out, the less people have to do research
• 1:08:46
  for it, to make sense. To them because it is, you know,
• 1:08:50
  a ubiquitous thing with Society, you know, Tech Tick-Tock next
• 1:08:52
  block like box just keep coming in.
• 1:08:54
  It's like oh yeah of course. Bitcoin isn't going to die.
• 1:08:57
  It's been around for 14 years and the longer we go out in
• 1:08:59
  time. Everyone's going to be doing the
• 1:09:01
  same thing. Like, I don't need to study
• 1:09:03
  this. It's just I download a wallet
• 1:09:05
  and it's better than everything else that I've ever experienced
• 1:09:08
  in my life. Exactly.
• 1:09:09
  It's just like, oh, scan sin, good to go.
• 1:09:12
  Oh, this is better than credit cards and like, I don't think we
• 1:09:15
  had that WhatsApp moment yet. R.
• 1:09:18
  I know, I know we have, you know, the, the, the tools, the,
• 1:09:21
  the wallets, and all the software and Hardware is
• 1:09:23
  improving, but I don't think we've gotten to that, quote,
• 1:09:27
  unquote killer app where everyone just downloads, they're
• 1:09:30
  using whatever, they're using lightning quickly there
• 1:09:32
  on-boarded in literally a minute or two without any friction.
• 1:09:37
  And once we get to that point where privacy is as easy as
• 1:09:41
  downloading WhatsApp, I think we're still have time where
• 1:09:45
  people need to understand, people need to research And like
• 1:09:48
  all of us, we all had to put in the work like we all had to put
• 1:09:51
  in the hours. We all had to watch.
• 1:09:53
  I don't know. Thousands of podcast and read
• 1:09:56
  every article just so that we can tinker and understand like
• 1:09:59
  oh this is real. Like this is something that I
• 1:10:02
  can take that leap of faith on, but as we move forward in time,
• 1:10:06
  I don't think people are going to have to do that.
• 1:10:08
  And it's like Luke saying they're just like that one
• 1:10:10
  moment where it's just like everywhere and I'm reminded of
• 1:10:14
  something that we always talked about on Twitter spaces and and
• 1:10:17
  shout out to my Boy Brandon, who kind of brought this up to a to
• 1:10:20
  my attention and you know, even the salon guys, Cole rewrites,
• 1:10:23
  the race to avoid the war and the intransigent minority.
• 1:10:26
  And the idea is essentially bowling this back to another
• 1:10:30
  historical moment. The founding fathers of the
• 1:10:33
  United States was only 3% of the, the new American
• 1:10:37
  population. And yet they give gave all of us
• 1:10:40
  freedom, and it's the same idea. It's only going to take three
• 1:10:43
  percent of very Ardent bitcoiners to inspire the next
• 1:10:47
  fifteen. And a people and then once you
• 1:10:49
  get to that 15 percent or whatever the number is, it's not
• 1:10:53
  the three percent it's that 15% it just as a snap of a finger.
• 1:10:57
  Everyone is on that Bitcoin standard and obviously we're not
• 1:11:00
  in that Trend intransigent minority number yet.
• 1:11:03
  We're not at three percent of the global population or three
• 1:11:05
  percent of the American population.
• 1:11:07
  But once we get to that 3%, then it's all of us being Advocates,
• 1:11:11
  will inspire the next batch of bitcoiners and then once that
• 1:11:14
  batch of bitcoiners is all on bitcoin.
• 1:11:17
  Overnight, we have hit hyper Bitcoin ization.
• 1:11:20
  So to one of the questions you asked me.
• 1:11:22
  Could do we need everyone? Not yet and will we always?
• 1:11:25
  Will we ever get to everyone? Who knows?
• 1:11:28
  Eventually. But like the whole world is not
• 1:11:30
  even on the internet. Yet you like, we still haven't
• 1:11:33
  got to full saturation of the global population on the
• 1:11:37
  internet. And yet, do we think that we're
• 1:11:39
  not going to have a world moving forward without the internet?
• 1:11:42
  Like no. That's absolutely ridiculous.
• 1:11:44
  We figured out a new technology, we figured out a better way to
• 1:11:47
  communicate. And you think we're just going
• 1:11:48
  to let it die on us? Like, no, that's not how this
• 1:11:51
  stuff works. Once you find a new technology,
• 1:11:54
  you make sure that thing last and you use it to benefit your
• 1:11:57
  life. And I think this is where we are
• 1:11:59
  with Bitcoin. Have we gotten to these numbers
• 1:12:02
  yet? No.
• 1:12:02
  But as long as all of us, continue making the content
• 1:12:06
  continue, trying to educate our friends and our family.
• 1:12:09
  We will get to that tipping point where everyone around us
• 1:12:14
  is a Bitcoin and then once we get to I think the number is
• 1:12:16
  like 15 16 Sent don't hold me on these numbers but then it's
• 1:12:21
  like, hyper bit, quantization happened overnight.
• 1:12:23
  And again, it's just the idea of WhatsApp, it's just like, get
• 1:12:26
  the tools out there. People won't have to understand,
• 1:12:29
  you know, lightning liquidity coin joining and you know, all
• 1:12:34
  the stuff we have to understand. All the have to know is right
• 1:12:37
  down your seed. Phrase, download a wallet, send
• 1:12:40
  Bitcoin. Get Bitcoin into everyone's
• 1:12:42
  hand. And then overnight, it's like,
• 1:12:44
  oh, yeah, of course, of course, I save in Bitcoin.
• 1:12:46
  Like, what are you, what? What are you a boomer Bitcoin?
• 1:12:49
  Boomer over here. Like I think we are just we
• 1:12:52
  really are this early to it and we really don't understand.
• 1:12:55
  Again, full circle, we don't understand exponentials and
• 1:12:59
  Bitcoin is that exponential technology on all the
• 1:13:02
  Technologies we have currently. And do we know how this is going
• 1:13:05
  to affect society? I don't think we do.
• 1:13:08
  I don't even think our most bullish takes are going to come
• 1:13:10
  close to how good the future will be.
• 1:13:13
  Oh man. Oh man.
• 1:13:14
  Well Holy cow, I want to thank very special guests today.
• 1:13:20
  Luke Broyles. Thank you so much for joining us
• 1:13:23
  on simply Bitcoin IRL. Of course, you guys know Opti
• 1:13:25
  Opti, thank you, thank you for doing some extra work and
• 1:13:29
  joining me, and hey, now I had a blast.
• 1:13:31
  I'm super glad this is where the conversation with.
• 1:13:35
  Hey, this is what I like. Oh man, it's a Saturday special.
• 1:13:38
  So we unleashed a little bit. We talked about topics that we
• 1:13:43
  usually don't bring up just because Was another hot-button
• 1:13:48
  issues and, you know, we aren't we want our messaging to be as
• 1:13:52
  inclusive as possible. And you know, that's just is
• 1:13:56
  what it is. These days, Luke, thank you so
• 1:14:00
  much for joining us. Why do you tell everybody where
• 1:14:01
  they can find you on the interwebs?
• 1:14:04
  Yeah, Twitter Youtube is what I'm doing right now.
• 1:14:06
  I keep getting requests for all these other social medias and
• 1:14:08
  I'm trying to expand those, but yeah, YouTube and Twitter, it
• 1:14:12
  was funny optimization founding fathers, I just made like a
• 1:14:16
  threat A minute video about comparing Boston in the Boston
• 1:14:19
  Tea Party new Bitcoins. So anyway, yeah YouTube.
• 1:14:22
  Yeah, awesome. Well man, thank you so much for
• 1:14:25
  joining us. Like I said, and guys will see
• 1:14:28
  you on Monday for another episode of Simply Bitcoin live
• 1:14:33
  truck. Excuse me, 12:15 p.m.
• 1:14:35
  Eastern Standard Time. You guys later.