Latest / Veteran Wellness Podcast / The Hidden Cost of Special Forces: Growing Up Without Dad | CJ Schwalm

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The Hidden Cost of Special Forces: Growing Up Without Dad | CJ Schwalm · Veteran Wellness Podcast

• cj schwalm: you look at it and it's almost like you wish that the father wasn't present at all. not not in like ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: a bad term, but you know, if you want to take a step back. There's a lot of abandonment issues. Every six months someone's coming in. And you don't know this man ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: fully anymore because every time he leaves a different person comes back almost, and every time he comes home you're a different person to him. So there's no connection. But every six months he's leaving. ERIK LAWRENCE: That's a good point to end on, buddy. I appreciate it. cj schwalm: You up? ERIK LAWRENCE: Thanks. cj schwalm: You alright, man? NO! ERIK LAWRENCE: CJ, how are you doing today? cj schwalm: I'm good, how are you? ERIK LAWRENCE: I'm doing good. I'm I'm kinda cringing a little bit on the subject matter we're gonna cover 'cause I have a couple of GWAT children myself and you're the son of a group member. your father Eric did a interview previously and I thought it would be great to get you on here to get to your perspective. cj schwalm: I'm very excited. This is definitely something that I spent some time in therapy for, talked to a lot of people about and I think the truth needs to come forward. I think it's time that, you know, there there's two sides of the the psychological stuff that's going on with the soldiers. You have the overseas portion and then you have the back home portion and no one wants to talk about the back home portion. They want to talk about you're over there, you're shooting guns, you're doing this, doing that, kicking indoors. That's all cool. That's cool guy stuff, but no wants to talk about the the background and what's going on at home, how the kids are doing, how the wife is handling it all, because you're gone all the time. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, yeah, we compartmentalized a lot and we thought it was all taken care of by ignoring it. I I'm pretty sure we're gonna find out that that's not the case. But let's let's go over before we jump into you know, your youth, let's do what you've done since you like graduated high school. What what did you what were you into? cj schwalm: since I graduated high school, I did a year of college. found out college wasn't for me. Wanted to kinda get away from get away from the family, the family dynamic that was going on at the house. everything I grew up with and went and enlisted in the Air Force. Dad did kinda help me and push me in the right direction, told me not to go to the army. He doesn't want me doing all that. So pushed me towards ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, good. cj schwalm: the Air Force. Originally tried to test for TACP, failed the test by three seconds. You live and you learn, you know, young and dumb. ended up becoming a 2W2X1 in the Air Force as a nuclear weapons technician. Got to travel around the States a little bit, go see the world a little bit. since then I got out in 24. lived in Missouri for two years when I got out. And then I started school for psychology again about a month ago. ERIK LAWRENCE: What's push you into psychology? cj schwalm: honestly I wanna go take care of the I wanna go take care of the troops. It's definitely been something that I've noticed. I've had my own mental health issues while I was in the Air Force. got had a lot of guys who attempted suicide stuff like that and I realized that, you know, no one takes care of us. And no one and if they are gonna take care of us, they don't know what we go through on a day to day basis. You're bringing a civilian into a job where they don't understand what you're doing on a day to day basis. So I figure why not just go give a background insight, be able to go listen to these people and give them actual care that they need from somebody who understands what's going on. ERIK LAWRENCE: Well yeah, you have real true perspective. You know, a a lot of these therapists have academic credentials but they don't have any any time on the road. So that that's cj schwalm: yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: very laudable for you and I think that'll really help a lot of people once you get it once you get completed. cj schwalm: I'm hoping so. ERIK LAWRENCE: there's no way around it. I mean y you will. You you got you're motivated enough, so don't sweat that. But let's go into the the the gist of this episode, you know, and I've read over your notes and I'm like, wow, those all hit home. So let's let's get it started. cj schwalm: so we could start with you know, obviously dad was on a six month, eight month rotation. every six months he was overseas, every six months he's home. so as a kid growing up From when I was born to when I was eighteen, you know, you gotta take that time of eighteen years, cut it in half, because he's been gone six months all the time. So I've only known him about nine years. And I just had this conversation with him on the phone the other day. I was like, man, I've I don't know anything about you. I've known you nine years, and of those nine years, you're home, but you're not really home. You're kinda Hap in in better terms, you are disassociated from reality. Because you still feel like you're overseas. You're still you're in that survival mode. You're just kinda existing in the house. So for me that was as a kid watching that growing up, it's not fun. You know, you have that father figure home. He's finally home from overseas. You're happy he's home, he's safe, all these things. But he doesn't want to do anything. He doesn't want to move. I mean I I'm I've never watched NASCAR fully a day in my life. But this man would come home, he would sit down on the couch or his chair wherever he wants to sit down. Five hundred laps of NASCAR. Hours. And he would watch it. And it's like, man, I don't know anybody that could watch NASCAR. For ERIK LAWRENCE: No. cj schwalm: the entire lapse from start to finish. ERIK LAWRENCE: They're going left. They're going left. Yeah. Maddening. cj schwalm: Yeah, they're going left. But as a kid you don't realize it. You you don't realize it as a kid. That what he's doing is he is sitting down. He's not getting shot at for the first time in six months. He's not kicking in a door, he's not listening to an explosive go off, you know. Any of those things. But he's just sitting down and watching TV. No ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: one's gonna ask him questions, no one's talking to him because everyone knows that this is his time. You can you can talk to him for a little bit, but it's very I guess like surface level answers. You're not gonna get any detail from. So it was it was it was rough. Every six months, you know, he'd go overseas, come home, and then the first month is like I told him, the first month you're not really home. You're still in that survival state. Like, you know, you're watching him do things he learned overseas, he's watching everybody, he's on high alert. any number of things that that you could think of that this man was doing over there, he's still trying to do back here and it's like you gotta step back. You gotta you gotta pull yourself out of that. You gotta come home. You gotta be with the family. Because that's what we want. We want to see you be with the family. And it felt like he just couldn't do that. I don't know if it was ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: just the amount of time he had been in, or the fact that no one was there to like kind of usher you guys back to the States. and give you guys like a breakdown ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: of like this is what should be happening. but no. That first month was always always off. You'd get him for about two to three months in the middle. In between, you know, going to training, going to do any spin ups that he had to do to go overseas, and then it's like, you know, that last month. that he's home, you can just see the switch kind of flip again, and he's back to that person who's getting ready to go overseas, back to that person who's getting ready to go get shot at again. It's like i as a ten-year-old, eleven-year-old kid, all you want to do is you wanna hang out with your dad. You know, you want ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: to go do all those fun things with him. You wanna see see where he's been, see what he's been up to the past couple of months. You don't want to know all the details. You just want to talk to him and you want to get to know him and you wanna hang out with him. You're supposed to love this man. But it feels like there is in better terms, not not a person in there to love at that point in time because they're just not there. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, there's there's an old saying in Special Forces that Special Forces is a mistress. It'll take everything a away from you in your life if you allow it. I mean cj schwalm: yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: it's a long diatribe of that, but it's it's essentially it absorbs you that much. and to push that on to the family unit that has no training in it or no explanation of it. And the group guys back in the day there was no, hey, this is what's gonna happen when you get home. you're fortunate that you had him for six months 'cause some of the government work I was doing, I'd be ninety days, thirty days home and then back to ninety. So you cj schwalm: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: never you never came out of that darkness. So yeah, that's a lot to process for a child. cj schwalm: And man And man that that darkness is real. You No one talks about it, especially you know, as a kid you don't understand what it is. You're you're you're not old enough to recognize that like, hey, he's used to a completely different life and what he wants to do and where he is right now are not the same place. He wants to be overseas. That's what that is his legitimate ERIK LAWRENCE: Correct. Yep. cj schwalm: home is overseas. He knows where he is. Whereas stateside he doesn't know what's going on, much like he was talking about. You come home, you know, your kid's in your chair. You don't know who's ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: you you know, for him it was it was either me or my brother, and he would come home and he would see my brother or me sitting in his chair, and it's like, well, six months ago you weren't twenty pounds heavier and like a foot taller. Who is that sitting in my chair? But it's like, you know, it it's it's a little weird, honestly. Just just seeing that he couldn't come home fully. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Well and and the development of a child is so rapid during those years. You know, six cj schwalm: yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: months is a long time. I mean, you could hit a growth spurt or, you know, you're in school or out of school. you know, it's exponential at those youthful ages of what you're doing and learning and developing and almost being retarded because you don't have cj schwalm: Hehehe. ERIK LAWRENCE: you know, the dad goes, stop what you're doing, that's bullshit. you know, a and give you the the once over sometimes. You know, 'cause everybody needs that, especially boys. I mean, you cj schwalm: yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: you leave boys unum unattended, you know, shit's gonna break. girls you could probably cj schwalm: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: get away with it, but not boys. Boys are savages, you know. cj schwalm: I our s our sister she was also a fighter in the household too, so things are gonna break in the house with all of us. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, yeah. Well you had two siblings, so that helps if everybody gets along and everybody kinda understands the situation the same. You know, but then then your mother has to deal with it with you kids and him and the situation. So I can't wait for those talks. Those are gonna be bloodlettings, I think. cj schwalm: yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: Because there's no pretty way. I mean, the amount of divorces in in the military, let alone SF, is just astronomical. cj schwalm: It's it's too high. I d they don't care about what's going on at home, man. ERIK LAWRENCE: No. Well they do now more than they ever have. More than cj schwalm: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: ever. they they have tried. I'm not saying they're successful, but you know, I I've been around a long time and and there was zero discussion of any of that before ten years ago, I think. you cj schwalm: yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: know, so you you probably saw the tail end of it when you were in the air force where they were at least trying to I don't know if programmize it or or or what, you know, make it normal to have some kinda a system. cj schwalm: I I got to see I'd see good changes and bad changes, definitely. just because of what I was doing and What I was touching on a day-to-day basis, we run a more heavily monitored program because you obviously can't go work on some of these WMDs with some issues going on at home. they wouldn't want you touching ERIK LAWRENCE: of course, yeah. cj schwalm: the insides of those things. But they ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: you know, they took good care of us. It's it's you gotta throw some shit at the wall and see if it sticks, honestly, sometimes and that's what I feel like they were doing and some of it was sticking and some of it wasn't. But it was it was good help. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Well, when when you were that young, was your mother giving you ideas on how to deal with it, or were you just kinda swagging it? cj schwalm: They don't prepare the wives. I will say that too. I ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, I know. Yeah. cj schwalm: you know she it's it's her first time being a mother. It well ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: obviously you know there's three of us, but there's we're all in the same household, so it's her first time learning all this and you throw in a curveball of, hey, your significant other's gonna be overseas every six months. You gotta learn on the fly. And it's it's a lot to pick up and I give her a lot of leeway in what she was doing because it's definitely a hard thing for anybody to do, to be told, hey, every six months your significant other's gonna leave and now you have three kids you gotta take care of who all all wanna go do different things, they all wanna go do different sports, they have different things, you know, going on in their lives at any given moment. She handled it very well, I would say. She had she had her mishaps and she's owned up to and I'll I'll give her I'll give her that. But it to to raise two boys who constantly are fighting each other. you know, a daughter who's ten years older than the youngest, who also wants to fight with the boys. She was going to work, she was making sure we were doing school, getting to the sports we want to go do, you know, everything. She was taking care of everything on the home front. And as an adult, now that she sit back like I sit back and I look at it, it's like there has to be so much stress for her. And to know that all three of her kids didn't end up in jail, dead, you know, doing terrible things. Yeah, ERIK LAWRENCE: Drugs. Yeah. cj schwalm: doing drugs, all these things you gotta feel a sense of accomplishment in that. Because it was just you really. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, and and you're wondering if your husband's gonna get car bombed, you know? yeah, no. cj schwalm: yeah. yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, 'cause I I mean and you know, you you guys were with fifth groups, so there were some fatalities. You know, so there's always you know, what you're seeing happening around you, you know, and and you know, you're within a military community. So some of that may be more apparent than you than Joe civilian. You know, when somebody does get killed, I mean it can it ripples through the community. cj schwalm: As a kid I don't remember much of it. Not gonna lie to ya. I think ERIK LAWRENCE: good. cj schwalm: I think dad kept that part away from us pretty well. ERIK LAWRENCE: Good. cj schwalm: But the the worry, 'cause nowadays everybody has a cellphone in their pocket, you go overseas, you have access to all of these inventions, but you know, while I was growing up it was you get a phone call maybe, 'cause you have international rates. ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm-hmm. cj schwalm: Skype was a really big thing once I hit about ten years old. So he was y you could video call eventually, but what he was doing he couldn't video call all the time. So you never knew what ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: was going on with him and you wouldn't know until i if if something happened until somebody came to your door knocking at that point. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, that's true. Yeah, these days everything travels way too fast. So cj schwalm: yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: But you know, but the times he was home, how did you try to engage with him? Because I know you had to have tried something. cj schwalm: So I wanna say I was eight years old when I shattered my elbow, so it was doing judo and jujitsu with him. And I was I was young and I was dumb. I was doing front flips on boxing rooms. It was I stuck my arm out, falling out stretched hands, shattered it to pieces. But, you know, that was that was what we would do. We would go do judo jujitsu since I was like six years old. I'm in the gym, on the treadmill, running next to him, stuff that he should he's doing that you know, we can just go tag along with. And then the nice part and the fun part about it all is eight, ten years old, you get to go over summer break from school, you get to go sit in a a group's a team house. You get to go sit with all the group. You get to go ERIK LAWRENCE: my. cj schwalm: see everybody, you know, you get to go learn some cool skills. I I had shattered my elbow and While I was re doing recovery, I couldn't go to school and everything like that, so Dad would have to take me into work with him. You know, any any anytime he was home, he would take me into work with him to go essentially just hang out with him, be see his life and see everybody. but I just remember there was one day he pulls out a folding table and he looks at his group guys, 'cause he used to be the medic. He pulls out a folding table, throws it down, pulls out an IV bag, looks at and he goes, Hey, I'm gonna teach you guys how to stick an IV on my son. I was like, Well I don't ERIK LAWRENCE: Ha ha ha ha. cj schwalm: I trust the doctors, but these other eight random guys in here, not too much. I don't know that well, man. But ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: definitely got to go do that. I got to go sit in the the team rooms. you know, there's the IV story. I learned how to clean my first M4 when I was maybe ten years old from one of the group guys. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: I don't I know his last name was Kawa, but he taught me how to clean an M4 sitting in the the team room. got to go rock climbing while dad was on the rock group or the climbing group and then combatives. That was probably the one number one thing that we all did as a family that That's how we bonded. We would go do judo, jujitsu, mom would do Mui Thai and boxing, we would go over there and do all that and then I know we're talking about the early years and like childhood, but one of the big things that you know, it eventu eventually led to was he made sure that all of us went through SF's combative program. Level one and level two. I don't think my sister ever ended up with level two, but I know me and my brother went through level one and level two, so it's we definitely got to go spend that time with him still, but it was not your normal like, hey, let's go get ice cream, let's go watch a movie, let's go do all this stuff. It was a a different childhood. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, y your you and my son would have similar stories. I've got photos of my daughter, she's about eleven shooting a dishka, you know. And I'm like this is normal, cj schwalm: yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: you know, not not to the world, but it's normal on our little clique, you know. cj schwalm: Well, I mean, I I also do have the memory of grouped at a family day. And they brought out a rock wall, they brought out the guns that they're using overseas and all this stuff. And man, I got to go shoot some of those when I like twelve or thirteen years old. It's like this is this is really cool at twelve or thirteen and then you go look at what other twelve and thirteen year olds are doing. They're out there playing football and you're like, This is not normal. This is not ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yeah, I know, but that's where there's good and bad. You know, cj schwalm: yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: compared to your peers, you were probably much more mature, much more learnered in practical skills. You know, my kids did the same. We had our own dojo, we had, you know, all that stuff because we're the problem with the SF guys we're always prepping for failure or prepping for a nightmare. You know, cj schwalm: yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: a and then we push that onto the family unit, you know. We're all preppers, we're all, you know, gun guys and jujitsu guys. And how often do we get to use it? probably not that much. But cj schwalm: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: you know, the one time you need to and it doesn't work, guess what? You don't get a second chance. So that that is a mentality we have that we kind of force into the family unit, which can be taken too far, you know, but at least you have some, you know practical time with him while he's back. but you're right. cj schwalm: Well, I I say I say it's a you know, it is time with him. But if you look at everything you're doing, it's stuff where you can't really get to know him. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: Cause you know, when you're on the mat, you're doing judo, you're doing jujitsu, kickboxing boxing, you can't sit there and just ask somebody, Hey man, how was your past six months? Well you're getting choked, or you you're trying to choke him or throw him. You know, it's stuff that he can still interact ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: with you, but he doesn't have to really open up about too much. So you gotta ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: you gotta take it in strides and you get to you learn to Just be happy with what you get there. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: It's still time spent, but you know, it's not you're not learning anything about him. You're not doing normal things like a child does. You know, you don't know too much about your dad. You don't know what he's doing overseas. honestly don't care too much what he's doing overseas. You just hope that he you know, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: he makes it home alive. But it's just i it's a surface level relationship with him. But it's ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: that's how I would describe it. I mean There's no way around it. You can't he could you know, you could go back and you could start trying to catch up, but how do you fit eighteen years into however long you have left or, you know, the the week long periods of time that you could go see each other because you you both got things going on after after service. You know, you gotta go do what ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: you gotta go do. But I think it's it just takes time to learn. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, life Yeah, life gets in the way. Yeah, cj schwalm: yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: but then then now you have the stress of him leaving again. cj schwalm: As an adult or as a kid? ERIK LAWRENCE: Well, as a kid, you know. I mean as a kid there sh should be cj schwalm: Yeah, I mean y you get to there's the highs and the lows. the first time it sucks. Especially when you're young, you get to you gotta realize you know dad's leaving and when you're you know, you're in a point where you can understand what's going on, where he's going, what he's going to do. The first time sucks. But after the first time you just kinda learn, well now you think Dad's invincible, you think Dad's Superman, you think Dad's a hero, he's gonna live through anything and everything that happens over there and it's not the truth, but you have this image 'cause he came home the last time. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: And you just it's two different lives, you know, he comes home, you live life a certain way, he goes overseas, now that person's missing, and now you gotta essentially turn off that part where it's like, Hey, I wanna go spend time with dad. And and it all changes in a night, it can change in a day. You know, he could have left at any given moment. So it's just it can just change in a flip of a switch. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, well we used to ride the pager back then too, so if you were on alert cycle, you had to be a one hour recall. So you you could be eating dinner, get the buzzer, and you gotta leave dinner. So I can imagine what that would do to you know, the family unit there. It's like, well, there he goes, you know. It's not like he's a fireman going to a fire where it makes sense. cj schwalm: Yeah. And I mean I I don't ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm. cj schwalm: wanna I don't wanna sound like an asshole or anything, but at a certain point you just stop hearing. It's ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: it's not like like you don't care about that individual, but hey, he's leaving, he's gone. He'll be back ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: in six months, he'll be back in however long, you know. Just another day. ERIK LAWRENCE: Well, that's your compartmentalizing yourself to protect yourself too. So Yeah. cj schwalm: yeah. I know as a kid you don't understand that, but as an adult once you start to like look at it and go, Man, that's that's not normal either. That's not normal either ERIK LAWRENCE: No. No, but that whole time wasn't normal. You know, it may have been normal for most of society, but to be in an S F group or or you know, a certain units, it was so constant that that was the normal. You know, some of the some of the regular units, you know, had had tours every couple of years, not cj schwalm: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: group. You know, there's never enough S F guys to go around. So You know, if you're competent you're gonna be used and abused. So Yeah. cj schwalm: yeah. And that's that's something that I was talking to him about too, just the other day when I was talking about, you know, how taking care of the troops is getting harder because you know, you go to mental health, go do any of these things to try to better yourself or try to take care of yourself mentally. At least what I was doing, they would take away your ability to hold a gun because they don't know if you're gonna they're gonna end yourself ERIK LAWRENCE: So cj schwalm: or end others around you. but you know, you take away that gun from somebody, you take away their purpose. You can't go do anything ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: without that. And that's you know, it kinda strayed off when I was talking to him about it, into he felt like he could just never leave. Because he didn't ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: want to He didn't want to give up his experience, his expertise, and all those things. And man was he was like fifty still kicking indoors, going on rotations, and I was You gotta stop, yeah, slow down at some point. But yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we're we're a pretty hard headed bunch. And you know, some are war whores, you know. I mean they're addicted to the challenge of combat because nothing matches it. You know, when you come back afterwards you're like, Well, how do you get excited? You don't, you know, so yeah that cj schwalm: You don't? It's a it's an adrenaline rush. ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah, yeah, yeah. And and it's a purpose. Yeah, I get it. I mean it's you know, I don't know how you translate that to the to the family of them go, Yeah, that makes sense to us. No. No, it doesn't make sense at all. cj schwalm: Yeah. Yeah, I think you just gotta let him grow up, honestly. I think I think there'll be a lot of as a kid there's a lot of hatred and a lot of aggression. And and I don't know if it's I don't I don't know if there's any other words other than there's hatred for it because you're missing that time. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: you know, it feels like he doesn't he's not there, he doesn't care about you. I it's all not true. He does care about you. He's just overseas doing other things, but you can't you can't really talk to the family about it either because the family's so used to you not being there that they just they don't care what you're doing. They don't ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: care what you were doing overseas, they want you home. Like I said, it's that's always what it's always been. It's we don't care if what terrible things could have been going on overseas. We just want to see you home. You could tell us all the adrenaline stories, you know. all the folding up trash can lids and throwing through doors. But we don't care about that. You know, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: dad's home, husband's home. That's all that matters to us. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Well nuts. cj schwalm: And unfortunately they don't you don't fully come home. You don't fully ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Well I I'm a little bitter on the reasons for these wars. You know, to to me years later they were bullshit. You know, the the pretext is were lies, the the objectives were lies, and it's for assholes to make a lot of money and create chaos, which is made me a little bitter on the whole subject anymore. Because it was unneeded. I mean we've essentially left Afghanistan and Iraq and they're both worse than when we got there. So cj schwalm: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: how do you feel good about doing it? You know, it's just like, come on, man. cj schwalm: And it's it's weird it's weird that you say that, because you guys got to go like he was saying, you know, he got to go be the spearhead and and go into ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: all of these wars. I got I got to see the ass end of everything. I had ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: although I wasn't on the missions overseas to go handle the withdrawal from Afghanistan and and the whole Kabul incident. I call it an incident because there was a lot going on there behind the scenes that no one knows about and no one talks about. But one of my ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah, yeah. cj schwalm: one of the guys I went to basic training with got overseas with me my last six months while I was in the Air Force. But he had came he had come from Germany, where they were taking all these people from Afghanistan, all of the refugees and all that, and essentially escorting them out of the country because Afghanistan was no longer safe. And he was saying he was telling me all the terrible things that were happening there and it's like, man, I missed eighteen years of life with somebody. For it all to just end. For us to just leave ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yeah. cj schwalm: it alone. Drop it all and be done. And I know for you guys ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: that probably has completely y that's gotta feel terrible. That you you spent all this time ERIK LAWRENCE: horrible. Horrible. cj schwalm: overseas, you had a family, you lost all this time with them. And now all of a sudden it's just gone. And we just left ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: everything and dropped it and the country's going back to how it was. ERIK LAWRENCE: it's worse. It's worse. You know, I mean cj schwalm: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean there's the the stories of the guys who were cleaning up the streets with ISIS guys. W with the ISIS individuals over there. And it's like, how much more of getting you know, getting spit on can we handle? That was that was too much for me. Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, it's that's beyond insulting. Yeah, that that general he recently he's had his ass handed to him, but yeah, they were doing police calls, you know, i at the airfield, you know, to leave it nice for the Taliban. I'm like, dude, I would've I would have booby trapped that entire country, you know. When I left it would have went up. cj schwalm: What for? For Yeah, they were just shooting at us a couple of days ago. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yeah, no, it's it's but that's poor leadership, you know. And we we don't have a lot of justice there. But you know, that meant you had to grow up as your own man. You know? cj schwalm: Yeah. Well, a little bit. 'Cause I did have my brother, obviously. it it's still a military ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Older. cj schwalm: community 'cause we were we're we were still located around Campbell. so you still had you know, night stalkers down the road, you had some group guys around, you know, obviously any of the group guys that we knew through dad and we would go do judo and jujitsu, they'd be around sometimes. But it's a very tight knit community and I don't think that's talked about either. Definitely, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: the the group community is tight knit because when I was six years old I remember I only know him as Bucket. 'Cause apparently the only thing they could find to fit on his head was a bucket. But I've known ERIK LAWRENCE: Ha ha. cj schwalm: him for I knew him growing up. I think he had brought his cane corso in at one point and put me on its back in the team rooms. And even when I had turned eighteen and I was getting ready to leave and go off to the Air Force, I ran into him down at the local gym out here. And he's I think he's going blind, has a couple of medical issues as, you know, most group guys do when they start ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: to get older. but he still asked me how I'm doing, he still remembers me. And ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: Th that was my entire life growing up. You know, you might not have dad around, but you still have the group community. They they're still taking care of each other. ERIK LAWRENCE: True. Yeah, we do have that. Yeah, a lot of a lot of communities and tribes don't have that. But you know wh when my kids were young I I had a training facility so all those units would come to us. So my kids have hundreds of uncles. You know, cj schwalm: yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: that would constantly challenge them and fuck with them and and cj schwalm: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: teach them things and to teach them bad things and you know, so they they still have relationships with some of them too. So I mean that is something that Joe Civilian's not gonna get. There's just no way. You know, cj schwalm: yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: so I mean there's so much good and bad, it's like, you know, what what are you gonna do? But you make lemonade from lemons. And you know, cj schwalm: And and yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: that old guy would kill people for ya. cj schwalm: Ab absolutely. And ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: you don't honestly you don't even have to know him too well. You don't maybe you've met him once in your life, but a group member of his family no matter what at that point. But you know, it the ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah, no, you're in the club. Yeah, yeah, yeah. cj schwalm: the father figure aspect of everything is definitely weird. Especially having to learn to be your own man. I have my brother, he's five years older than me, so he's thirty two. He has his son. And we it took us a long time to kind of figure out being adults, being you know, being a man in today's world and not having that father figure around. It takes your you gotta go on your own path. I've luckily ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: had him the entire time. And he's the one that does do the hey you're being stupid. And grow the fuck up, you know, stuff like that. And it's I love him to death ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: for it. And he I'm five years younger, so he gets to watch, you know, the younger version of himself running around doing all these things ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: now. But he took over, but I will definitely say that we both went through the military because that's That was our version of becoming a man. You know, you grow up, you see the military, you live the military, that's all you've ever known. That's kind of where you get pushed towards. It's And I know it's not the greatest thing in the world, but you know, it sets you straight a little bit. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: That that definitely is an eye-opening experience when you 'cause he's he was an officer and I went through the enlisted route and he made fun of me because I was in college and I did my dumb things and went enlisted. ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm-hmm. cj schwalm: But You know, I I wouldn't trade at all. You have to you ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: get forced to grow up so fast once you join the military and up until eighteen, I I was definitely a little shithead running around because, you know, no father figure, learning to be your own man, you don't got too much going on. hit eighteen, went to college for about a year, enlisted, got into the Air Force, and You learn that you're not actually that big of a shithead. Because like you were saying earlier, you have to be mature. ERIK LAWRENCE: compared to others? No way. cj schwalm: Yeah, you have to learn to be mature very fast. Because you're growing up around all these these oddities, you know, no father figure, you know, mom sitting in the background. And this was back in the day before, you know, if you get before, you know, you could just call CPS if you hit your kids. this was back in the day, you'd ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, no. cj schwalm: get your ass beat in Walmart if you if you started talking back to mom. So she's always s she ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: was always sitting back there. I had my brother over my shoulder. But I definitely got told at nineteen I was a lot more mature than some of these twenty to twenty-one year olds running around and then yeah, it's it's just an eye opening experience to realize, wow, I've been missing a whole different side of life because I didn't have dad around. But I also did get to experience a def a different side of it that prepared me for things that I didn't think I would you'll never need probably, you know, like you watching the sides of the road when you're driving down it because potential IED. We're in in America. I don't think there's an IED sitting on the side of the road, but as a kid you learn it. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, I s I know. I know, but I I I still swerve around parked cars. So it's like okay. Yeah, not cj schwalm: Exactly. Yeah, and that that was, you know, one of those things where w when we were growing up and he was home, you got to watch it. It's one of those things that never leaves you when you come back to the States, trash on the side of the road, parked cars, things like that, he's like looking for explosives. Like, man, I don't think I've ever seen an IED in America. They're they're not all too common, but as an adult, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yeah. cj schwalm: I've definitely caught myself a couple of times looking at trash on the side of the road like, you know What could be under there? And it's like I learned that when I was about eight or nine years old. It w one of those things that ERIK LAWRENCE: Nothing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well cj schwalm: it's not normal. ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah. No, it's and a lot of that, you know, is subconscious programming. You know, I'm sure you'll you'll cj schwalm: yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: get that in school and how you you know, how psychedelics help a lot, you know, in cj schwalm: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: reprogramming the the subconscious you know written program from the y the youth. But you know, we're not getting into that right now, but cj schwalm: Hehehehe ERIK LAWRENCE: But you know, w what kind of therapy does a kid get? You know, I mean cj schwalm: Are you asking about what I went through personally? I never got therapy as a kid. I never sat down with a therapist. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, I mean, yeah, whatever you can say, you know. okay. cj schwalm: It was never in the books. I had to wait until I was in the military. going through my own mental health crisis at the time to learn that like therapy's a very real thing. And I probably should have gone through this years ago. Because you gotta unpackage all that childhood trauma. But yeah, I mean ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. cj schwalm: There as far as I'm aware, I've never heard anything from Dad, mom, anybody around the group area about family getting therapy. You just kinda lived with life and you learned as you went on. That was it. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Well, as you know, most adult problems come from child problems. They cj schwalm: Yes. ERIK LAWRENCE: just manifest or you you you the glass overflows. So, cj schwalm: yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: you know, it it's you've gotta go back to that little little boy and find out what was the problem back then. cj schwalm: Well, I mean y you look at it and it's almost like you wish that the father wasn't present at all. not not in like ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: a bad term, but you know, if you want to take a step back. There's a lot of abandonment issues. Every six months someone's coming in. And you don't know this man ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: fully anymore because every time he leaves a different person comes back almost, and every time he comes home you're a different person to him. So there's no connection. But every six months he's leaving. And coming back. It's like a terrible ex girlfriend that you don't want to let go of, you know what I'm saying? It's ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, and she come yeah. cj schwalm: Yeah, but it's it's abandonment issues. And then you get you get attached to things that aren't healthy for you. Because it shows you an ounce of love, it shows you anything under the sun that's could be a little bit of recognition and you become instantly attached and it's like, man, that's super unhealthy because I wish he would have done that when I was growing up. Now I wouldn't I wouldn't have this issue though. And I I don't ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: have it anymore. You know, at twenty eight I would hope I'm kinda done with all that and been through all my therapy. It'll it'll come back around one day. ERIK LAWRENCE: you let me know. Yeah, let me know, Sunshine. Yeah, yeah, call me in twenty years. Let me know. cj schwalm: But I mean that y you're looking for love constantly. 'Cause I mean you did get that love it was tough love from mom because it was all that stress like I was saying, but you miss a very key critical role in your life. And it doesn't even have to be love from the opposite gender. it could just be, you know, like friendship. You know, having having that person around that reminds you that is there for you in a time of need. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: Because I have four or five really good friends that I would go to the ends of this world for. And I'm only I'm pretty positive it's all because we trauma bonded while at work. But also because I I ERIK LAWRENCE: Ha ha ha. cj schwalm: had all these issues growing up where it's like, you know, this guy showed me an ounce of love when I was at my ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: lowest. And he could treat me like shit the rest of the time and I would never pay attention to it. But he showed me an ounce of love when I was at my lowest. He picked me up, grabbed me, said, Hey, we're going this way, let's go. Right on man. Right on man. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: you you got you caught me. I I had those I had those abandonment issues. you know, it you learn to not you also learn to not trust people too much. Which which is really weird. Because I think it also chimes into the the subconscious things that you learn while growing up. Because with dad It was always, you know, ID on the side of the road, watch people what they're doing around you twenty four seven, don't ever sit with your back to a door, all the the the tips of the the work, you know, the tips of the trade. so you get really you get kinda paranoid almost as a kid growing up. Because you have to learn ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yeah. cj schwalm: all these things that he's teaching you or you kinda pick up on his habits. And then as an adult you start to pay attention to things like any small movement. of somebody or any small change in attitude, stuff like that, because you're looking for something to go wrong almost. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: So you could you know, like I said, it's it turns into a little bit of trust issues because I could hang out with you every day for seven years. But I'm not gonna fully trust you to go do anything for me or to take care of me because the moment I sense a shift in your attitude, I'm overanalyzing everything, trying to see see what you're doing. And just kinda taking a step back and going, I don't know if I can actually have this person in my life. But they showed me that ounce of love. It's it's a really weird relationship between the abandonment issues and the trust issues because it's like they showed you an ounce of love. You wanna keep them around. But you also kinda want to pay attention to what this person's doing now. But you still want ground. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: It makes it makes being an adult really interesting, I would say. A lot of failed relationships for it. ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah. I was gonna say it's it's hard to now, you know, give that give and take in a relationship. cj schwalm: Yes. One hundred percent. ERIK LAWRENCE: Do you have children? cj schwalm: I have a divorce. I don't have children, I have a divorce under my belt. Classic military classic yeah, classic military. ERIK LAWRENCE: Well, don't we all? I mean, come on man. Everybody has a starter wife. Come on, man, you know. but don't you think cj schwalm: Yeah. I I wouldn't ERIK LAWRENCE: you'll be able to raise a child better? Because you've seen the negative side of it and you're smart enough cj schwalm: This is ERIK LAWRENCE: to reprogram correctly, I hope. I just wish I could have kids again, you know, and kind of redo that. cj schwalm: Yeah. well that's y you know, gotta d with what I did kinda gotta take into some things some things into account and be on I I've been on TRT before, about to get back on TRT. so I don't know if kids are in the picture, but definitely watching my brother raise his son. You see a completely different human being than what your father did. ERIK LAWRENCE: I'll bet. cj schwalm: I mean dad's dad was gone Not really emotionally available, and I'm watching my brother. And I'm like, man, that is that is an amazing father right there. He's his ERIK LAWRENCE: See cj schwalm: son's crying, he's there. His son wants to play, he's there. You know, he's he's taking him to swimming lessons, picking him up from daycare, you know, going and doing all these fun things, and even as just an uncle to him. Because I've been in Missouri for the past two years. Whenever I go over there, I can be having the worst day under the sun. I'm I just want his day to be good. I just want that that guy to feel like he has that family aspect. I obviously as the uncle you gotta buy him all the annoying toys, do all those fun things, but Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah, of course. Drum sets and stuff, yeah. cj schwalm: I mean I bought him Moroccos when he was one. Just so he could he could ERIK LAWRENCE: Ha ha ha. cj schwalm: annoy my brother. But it's like I I don't I don't have to do anything for that that kid. I really don't. I don't have to buy him anything. I don't have to I I do have t I still wanna show him love. I still wanna give him all those things that we didn't get as a kid. But watching my brother as a father, you can see that there's a completely different human being than what our dad was doing. He took all the negatives. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, but see that might that might be your lesson. cj schwalm: yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: You know, there's no easily learned lesson or education. You cj schwalm: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: know. I I mean, and that's once again, the more psychedelics you do, the more you see on that. And and we're put here to learn something. And you hope you learn it, because if not, you're gonna get another trip and you gotta learn it again. So maybe this was the hard lesson, you know. that the kids are getting from from this experience that it will will be, you know, much nicer for the next couple of generations until we forget it, then we relearn it and start all over again. cj schwalm: I will say the other lesson that's probably learned is every guy that I know whose group that worked with my father, I haven't seen a single one of their kids go anywhere near Special Forces. They they've left that so far alone. So far and I mean, they all have yeah. And and they all have ERIK LAWRENCE: No. I've seen Yeah. I've seen one or two, but not many. Yeah. Yeah. cj schwalm: kids. I mean, some of the guys that we grew up with because their dad was SF and We did judo and jujitsu with them. They have families, they have all these things. But you know, they're still in the military, they're still taking care of their kids, and it's like it's weird, 'cause you would have thought that maybe the group kids would go group. You know, you you're raised a certain way, you learn all these things, you're a pretty good candidate to go down that career path. But all these kids ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah. cj schwalm: who got to watch it firsthand are like, We want no part in that. We don't we don't want to go deal with that either. We don't want to go deal with that. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Well it's also too much pressure to perform. cj schwalm: yeah. Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, big shoes to fill. You know, I mean cj schwalm: Well man, that's why I went to the Air Force. I mean y ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: if I I walked around anywhere out on Campbell in the group area, you're you're Schwam's son. Well, yeah. I ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: have a name though. I have a name though. So ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, yeah. cj schwalm: I mean I went off I went off to the Air Force, made my own name, whether it's good or bad, who knows. I mean I good at my job, but I had a shit attitude. From what I understand. From what I understand. But you know, I didn't want to be tied to that. I didn't want to try to have to fill any shoes, I wanted to go make my own way and see what I ERIK LAWRENCE: Smart. cj schwalm: could do on my own. And it turned out to be a ten times better idea than I'm gonna go to the army and go be an officer or go be infantry and hope nobody knows the last name Schwam out here. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, no, it's it's it's big shoes to fill 'cause everybody knows everybody and everybody would take care of your kids. You know. cj schwalm: yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: So it's it's it can be a double edged sword for sure. Because you know the army's not that big. You know, everybody acts like it's huge. No, it's cj schwalm: No. Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: in groups even smaller and then you know, the word travels fast. cj schwalm: yeah. that was ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, so cj schwalm: that was how my career field was too. It was a very small career field. They knew who you were before you even reached your next base and it's like, Man, I didn't even get a chance. ERIK LAWRENCE: I c I guarantee you with yours, I mean you had to have a hell of a good G T score to jump into that MOS. so well. cj schwalm: I think it was in the sixties. I think was in the sixties. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, but th th they're not letting fools handle nukes. So yeah. cj schwalm: No, definitely not. But ERIK LAWRENCE: Well you didn't make me cry, so that's a good thing. But cj schwalm: it's not the it's not the objective. I don't think that's ever the objective. I think it's ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, I know, I know, but it's it's we sh we should have known better, you know, but we were too absorbed. We were too purpose driven, you know, i illogically. cj schwalm: Well who is teaching you guys? ERIK LAWRENCE: no one. Yeah, I know. We were making shit up. Yeah. cj schwalm: And how me I that's the thing you gotta that's the thing you gotta realize is like i as an adult it took me so long to realize this. I mean, this was maybe last year or so. No one was teaching you guys anything. No one was ERIK LAWRENCE: No. cj schwalm: holding your hand the way they were holding our hands with mental health. Like you were saying, like they take much better care of us today than they did back in the day. No one was telling you guys, like, hey, your family's gonna be in shambles probably. every time you go ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: overseas or every time you return, you're not gonna know your kids, you're not gonna know your wife too well. No one sits you guys down and talks about that whatsoever. And it's like I can't I gotta give you guys the grace and the leeway because like one, what you guys were doing, especially in the era that you were doing it, it's a tough job. You're gonna you know, you're not coming home the same. You're not you're gonna see some things overseas. You're gonna experience a completely different life and then try to come home and unload all that. That's not fair to you guys. And I don't I don't want to make anybody cry, I just want to be out there that like The family life at home was definitely a pile of shit. And you can't there's no beating ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: around the bush on that. And no one tells you guys that. No one sits anybody down and goes, Hey, here's how you fix that. Here's how we get this to we mitigate issues at home or how we keep things healthy. And ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: You know, I could have all this anger and pent up aggression and rage towards my dad because, you know, I haven't seen him in ten years. I haven't known him but for nine years. But if no one tells you guys what to do, how fair is it that somebody just sits down and goes, Man, you guys you guys fucked it all up? ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: And I mean somebody has to somebody has to be the learning experience, and you're right, you guys were the learning experience. ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah, I hope they learned a lot 'cause it cost a lot. cj schwalm: yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: You know. The amount of divorces, suicides, who knows what, DUIs it just I cj schwalm: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: I I feel it was criminal that they put us in those pr predicaments, you know, for cj schwalm: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: really no reason. You know, it wasn't World War Two or not, you know, getting the hun, you know. We have people in flip flops essentially run us out of their country. cj schwalm: Flip flops and bed sheets, man. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well they're they're doing well today too, so cj schwalm: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: maybe we're on the wrong side, I don't know. But cj schwalm: Yeah, you never know. ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah. Well you've grown up through that, did your own thing, you know, you're I I hope you you take this new endeavor in psychology very serious and and you have so much to apply to whoever your patients are when you do get out of this. I think it'll be great. That's your lesson right there. cj schwalm: And that's that was what I talked to Dad about the other day and he's he's happy with it. He's like, you know, I may have done all of these terrible things in the past, he's like, but You're taking the best of it. You're you're doing the the best you can with it and moving forward and like one of the big things I told him is I like, you know, I'm sure it's not just group. I'm sure it's other special operations communities, all of these places. ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah. cj schwalm: And I'm sure I could reach my hand out and be like, Hey, once I do get the credentials, because all I'm missing is that piece of paper that's saying, like, hey, I'm qualified to do this. I have the background to do this, but I don't have the piece of paper to do this. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: But I do want to, you know, no one takes care of the point zero one percent of the population that is the military. And I've realized someone needs to go do it and what but not a better person than somebody who grew up in all of it, got to see the worst of all of it, got to see, like I was saying before, the people who never learned, and now I can take what happened to you guys, turn into a positive and be like, Hey, I can go get back. Just because I went through it doesn't ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. That's cj schwalm: mean the rest of these kids in the future have to go through it and If it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. If I can help one person, that's all that matters to me. ERIK LAWRENCE: no, it's gonna work, man. Come on. Yeah, you're you're a smart cat. And the problem is there's not enough of you. you know, when people go out cj schwalm: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: to try to find a shrink or or a a therapist or this or that, they're stacked up 'cause there's not enough people doing what you're doing. So appreciate that and you'll be well well entertained, I'm sure. with plenty of work. cj schwalm: I'm sure. But yeah, I mean the other the other thing you gotta realize about that too is you gotta get past the the special forces masculinity, I think. Because I mean everybody puts on ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. I've heard of it. cj schwalm: that face. Everybody puts on that face and goes, no, the family's fine. Alright, well you can lie to the therapist over there who's never had this before. But I'm gonna look at you in the face and go, Alright, well now that you've lied and got it out of the way, what do you wanna do? What do you want to do? Because I'll be honest with you, I know the truth. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Everything's great. Yeah, no. No, we we are good at putting on the plastic face and and you know, flying the flag as needed. So you'll definitely be able to call bullshit on that one. Which they need, you know. cj schwalm: Yeah. I think I'm yeah, I think I'm in such a great place to do it because I moved back to back to Clarksville, so I'm right down the road from Campbell again. ERIK LAWRENCE: really? Well? cj schwalm: yeah. once I get my bachelor's done, I'll be done hopefully by the end of this semester. I I have to find a way to get some some clinical time in there, kind of, or some work ERIK LAWRENCE: Course. cj schwalm: time in there. But I would man, if I could get back down there and go to group go to fifth group and go work with those guys ERIK LAWRENCE: That's what I'm saying. We'll put put you at group headquarters. You know how busy you would be. Yeah. cj schwalm: I'd be fine with that. You could pay me any amount of money under the sun like I told Dad. I I'm on disability, ninety percent disability as it is. I could care less about the money. It's not about the money than me. And I ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: think that's the most important part about all this is 'cause y you could put me as a GS you know, eleven or twelve, I'd make a shit ton of money, who cares? I I'd want to go make sure that these kids who are growing up realize there's ways to make this better and the father could make this better and it's like, man, the money's just an aspect at that point in time. I could I'd care ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, yeah. cj schwalm: less. ERIK LAWRENCE: you'll get there somehow. I mean, yeah, you cj schwalm: I hope so. I hope so. ERIK LAWRENCE: will. That'll be beautiful. And what a what a full circle that would be. Yeah. cj schwalm: yeah. yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: Well, what's some parting shot points do you want to put out? I mean, you that's a lot of info. A lot of stuff. cj schwalm: Man. We're not we're technically in a conflict, technically not in a conflict right now. I don't know how much ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: group is actually being used right now. 'cause I've been ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: you know, been out of the game for a little bit of group. Been going a little bit too long, but I would like to make those connections again. Man. For the people above, for like your NCOs who are taking care of your E ones to E fours, your senior NCOs who are taking care of, you know, E sixes and below. It kinda falls on you guys too. You you gotta make sure that the ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: the family unit at home is good. that's one thing. for the group guys in particular. We get it. You guys are some of the most hard target individuals there are. We're your family. We could care less about what you do overseas. We just we want dad. Especially, you know, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: as a kid, you want your father growing up. When you're home, if you wanna disassociate, disassociate. Do your thing for a couple of weeks, but I I don't wanna be the bear of bad news, you gotta snap back to reality. Just because you're you're not overseas doesn't mean you don't have a job to fill here. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: You still gotta be dad, you still gotta be present, you know And especially, man, drop the tough guy act. I love it. It's cool, you guys, you guys do some of the coolest things in the world. Drop it. Just be present with your family, man. Because if if you want you wanna go overseas and you wanna come home and you wanna talk about the fact that everything feels like it's changed. You're right, it's changed. The only thing stopping you from learning what's changed is you. Take your week, take your two weeks, readjust. And then just kinda man your home, be with your family. Do the do the right things. You know what's wrong, you know what's right. Don't don't sit there and you know, I don't want to talk to my kids past the surface level. Why? They're still yours. You're still responsible for raising them, you're responsible for everything they do. You wanna see them grow up to be the best thing imaginable. Drop the tough guy act. Your kids just wanna love you. It's it's plain and simple. You know, all we cared about was dad's home. Dad's alive. Some of these guys don't get to come home. Some of these guys don't get to come back alive. Some of these guys end up in a casket, you know, flying back. And then now what? But i in in a reality, let's say you spent those eighteen years with that tough guy act on. Your kids don't know ya. I'm sorry. It's i it's you're gone, but man, did you ever take a second to sit down with your kids? Did you take that second to step back and just be present with your family? And some of these guys don't get that ability to do that anymore, you know, they they went home in a casket. And You're telling me you can't take a second to step back and just be with your family? And just love your family? ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. cj schwalm: I'm sorry, it's it's the the tough guy act is nice. It's good when you're overseas. Flip that switch and be home. That's it. ERIK LAWRENCE: That's a good point to end on, buddy. I appreciate it. cj schwalm: You up? ERIK LAWRENCE: Thanks. cj schwalm: You alright, man? NO!