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Hiring the Right People: Building a Stronger ABA Team with Joseph Bolden · ABA Business Leaders

• speaker-0: One particular interview within five minutes I had this girl talking about how many nights a week that she was out with friends past 2 a.m. drinking adult beverages. And I was like, ⁓ I'm so happy for you, but you're not the right person for us. And then there was this other person, this was one of the first people we interviewed. She showed up for the interview and dressed up for a night on the town. speaker-1: I'm pretty sure she was like I'm going to the club after speaker-0: Dilettos and cleavage and black leather. I mean she was r and and and then she was like, How much longer of this interview 'cause my cab's waiting outside. speaker-1: Welcome to ABA Business Leaders brought to you by 3Pie Square, where we discuss topics on how to create and grow an ethical and sustainable ABA practice. speaker-0: Whether you're starting, scaling, or thinking about selling your business, we're here to share insights, stories, and strategies to help you on the journey. speaker-1: We owned a successful ABA practice for over ten years. speaker-0: And now we help other ABA business owners do the same without all the chaos. speaker-1: Stick around, you're in the right place. speaker-0: Hello everyone, welcome to ABA Business Leaders Podcast, brought to you by 3Pie Squared. I'm April. And today we have with us our head of recruiting, Joseph Bolden. Welcome, Joseph. speaker-1: And I'm Stephen. speaker-2: Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for having me. speaker-0: Yeah, so excited. ⁓ Joseph is a new member of our team here at Three Pi Squared and ⁓ he ⁓ once Steven he and Steven I don't know, they worked out the the partnership here and and the parameters of working together and like I don't know, was it even a day where like Joseph just like took off running with with the show. speaker-1: Yeah, I mean like so how the story started I had a recruiter and so I just let her have it where I like I don't know how to do this. So we hired somebody, right? And so I reached out to some customers. They were like, Yeah, let's do this and so you know, we got the contract in place and everything was ⁓ I thought going well. And then one of them reached out and said, Hey, like I haven't heard anything. ⁓ speaker-0: Okay, tell us the story. ⁓ Why we hire somebody for our team? speaker-1: And then another one reached out, and then I reached out to the recruiter and she said, ⁓ yeah, everything's going great. Everything's fine. ⁓ and and so then I logged in to see when the last time she logged in, and it was two months ago, and I was like, Okay, that's it. So so then like in a mad panic, which is w how I work, I ⁓ found Joseph and like it has been like ⁓ like it was meant to be I I'm so grateful for what you've been able to do. Like within days He just took it on, was able to find B C B A's of the customers. ⁓ and like the last two ⁓ were great examples where in Arizona he found four B C BAs in three days, I think, or or something like that. And ⁓ and w and another one he found two B C B A's in less than twenty four hours. So like ⁓ been knocking it out of the park. And so we're just so happy that you've been able to join the team and and you're yeah, like it's it's been wonderful. speaker-0: to say I think it's a great testimony to how amazing it is for like things that are think even when you feel like things aren't working out and that it's because something else is in the works, right? And so Joseph was the right person for our team and and for the leaders that we work with. And unfortunately we had to go through some bumps to get here, but we're here. So I'm very thankful for that. And I have to send out gratitude for that for sure. ⁓ but Joseph, so ⁓ it Tell us tell us all the things. Tell us tell us where where like what is this magic power that you have ⁓ in the field of recruiting? speaker-2: Wow. No further. Thank you for the kind words. Definitely appreciate it. again, excited to be a part of the team as well. ⁓ I think ⁓ I think part of ⁓ one of the qualities that I have is being able to connect with people ⁓ in a warm way. ⁓ I think that makes a huge difference. I think the combination with I guess my personality, my sales experience, ⁓ there's a little bit of marketing. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: In there as well that I think ⁓ is kind of sprinkled in there as well. ⁓ but then it, you know, part of the relational piece is I want to make sure that the customer experience is is felt. ⁓ I want any candidate that I talk to to feel like they were ushered into a position that they wanted, that they were not forced into a position that they didn't want. They had buyer's remorse afterwards, ⁓ things of that nature. But I also I think What's also helpful is really asking all the critical questions up front to the customer, I mean to the clients as well. Like asking those companies, what are you looking for? We can look for a BCBA. ⁓ but what are some of the other things, like the culture fits that you're looking for? ⁓ some companies don't want a culture fit. Some of them want culture ads. They want somebody to come in and create something. Some other companies already have those culture things in place. And so they're looking for somebody to come in and just fit right in. Those critical questions have helped me to be able to shape my job postings. shape the conversations when I'm ha having those and it reduces a lot of the back and forth and the time, you know, gets gets moved quickly because I've already asked those critical questions. speaker-1: And maybe let's back up just a little bit, but like you have a wealth of experience in ABA operations. And so maybe like 'cause I think that that is something that most recruiters that I have spoken to. Like, you know, I I used to ⁓ re refer out recruiters. ⁓ you know, I would I would ask our customers who they're using, who do they like, and and it was very hard to find one that they liked, but ⁓ they they would send me some and then I would refer them out and I remember I sent one a recruiter ⁓ contact to a customer in New Jersey. I didn't hear anything for months. So I assumed no good was n ⁓ good news. And then ⁓ we were on a consult and she said, ⁓ yeah, that recruiter, by the way, they said they don't work in New Jersey anymore. And I'm like, Hey, you have one job, like this is your only job is to find B C B and you're like banning the state. I I don't I don't right. And so like this is what I would find, right? It was really hard to to to recruit a recruiter. speaker-0: Start you start to feel like, ⁓ gosh, is this th is this possible? Yeah. Is this even something that can be done? speaker-1: Yeah, totally. And like I think that's kind of what sets you apart is your background. So if you don't mind just sharing like how you got into the space and how much experience ⁓ that you you do have. speaker-2: Yeah. So ⁓ a little over a decade ago, I was working in the hospital system, ⁓ as an account manager. So I was an account manager for the Gulf Coast Division in HCA, ⁓ the hospital corporation of America. And there was a guy there that was working in our credentialing pro ⁓ area and he was the vice president of credentialing. He has a son that is on the spectrum. And he was getting ready to move to an ABA company. And I never heard of ABA before, didn't really know what autism was, things of that nature. And he was like, Hey, I would love to bring you on as one of my operators. ⁓ and so we started there, and it was ⁓ a company that was just backed by private equity that had just been purchased. ⁓ and so I got brought in as an operator ⁓ or what you would call a center administrator. and I was able to help establish a couple of locations in Houston, Texas. ⁓ and so that kinda gave ⁓ got my feet wet a little bit. ⁓ then working inside the the center and then having to own the P L, ⁓ having to hire and fire, create culture, ⁓ you know, basically running everything from the top to, you know, who's gonna be cleaning the toilets in the afternoons, like it taking the trash out. I I was in in charge of all of those things and they really helped me ⁓ in a lot of different ways that I didn't know was going to help me. ⁓ and so getting into that field, being able to talk to parents, ⁓ and really understanding that a lot of parents, when they're learning that their kids are autistic or being diagnosed, there's a lot of emotions in there. ⁓ and so it was important for me as an operator to work alongside the BCBAs, the clinical directors, whoever we were bringing in to be able to work with those parents to be able to understand what they're going through and how to make this a really great experience. So think that helped a lot. ⁓ and then, you know, you realize like when you lose great people, you start to lose money. Right. And so you have to kind of really work through those things and ⁓ those challenges. And so ⁓ the pandemic happened and our company did a mass furlough and ⁓ they left they left me on. And so I took over multiple locations at that time. and you know apparently was still doing well even during the pandemic, all of that. ⁓ my particular center in Houston was the fastest growing center in the company. ⁓ It's all by grace because that first year, you know, most companies, especially a de novo, you're gonna be in the red. we were in the green. And a lot of that had to do with just again learning the experience, being in the right place at the right time, things of that nature. And you had a lot of mom groups that were being established at that time too, that really helped with that. So went from that and then moved into ⁓ another company where I was the executive director. ⁓ and you know, taking over a company that already had an executive director for many, many years. She was a BCBA clinician herself. ⁓ she had established this company. She had a lot of rapport with families and all of that. ⁓ some things happened and then they brought me in to kind of replace. So having to learn the culture again and really kind of learn the new the staff that ⁓ they're looking at me kind of side eyed ⁓ because they don't know what to expect from me ⁓ as a as a leader. ⁓ they're thinking that I'm just gonna unload everybody and all of that. ⁓ that really taught me a lot as well. And being able to again to re reconnect with people, give them vision of what to look for, things of that nature. And then also keeping my eye on how we're gonna scale up as a business, because one of my goals is not to come in and just kind of maintain. I wanna take this to a another level. ⁓ so that's kind of helped as well. And then I became a national recruiter at another company, ⁓ again, ABA, working with ⁓ many companies in the Midwest, ⁓ where it allowed me to learn different business styles, different cultures ⁓ within those particular companies. Cause every company tends to have a different culture. Some even within the company have different locations that have different cultures. ⁓ and so really understanding what those things are and then the fabric of what they're looking for has always kind of helped me from there. So yeah, it's been kind of a journey that has led up to this point for sure. speaker-1: Yeah. And I I think like I said, I I don't know of any recruiter that has that wealth of experience within ABA, not just ⁓ knowing, ⁓ yeah, I I've worked with some ABA companies, but like to be in the thick of it and you know, having to do that, especially when it got difficult during COVID, I I think that that that just shows the level of nuance that you understand that a lot of most people don't know. speaker-0: I think a lot of maybe not a lot, I don't know, but the recruiters that that I've talked to or know of, like we'll say that they're a recruiter in the healthcare space. Right. But we all know that like the healthcare space is quite a wide ⁓ contains a quite quite a ri wide variety ⁓ of like types, right? ⁓ and so it can look different. And then ABA does have the fact that most services are more intensive and you know the the level of you know, FaceTime that you have with the same clients and the same staff over and over, the the in home aspect, the clinic aspect. It's just it's just a different beast. It's just it's we we're just a little different over here in our ABA world. And and so it does take understanding that to be able to know what questions to ask and how to communicate the ⁓ like the culture pieces and how to connect with those within the field to help understand what their needs are. So ⁓ speaker-2: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it is definitely a language, right? Like, you know, ⁓ and some people can kind of pick up on it. You could tell as I'm having these conversations, even even with BCBAs, like, you know, ⁓ you know, recently I had conversation and I mentioned, ⁓ yeah, this particular company is not backed by private equity. Light bulbs just went off. ⁓ I love that. You know, because you also know what comes with that, there's a lot of company or people that believe that, you know, when you're backed by private equity, you're all about money or you're trying to do different things. ⁓ and some people don't want that type of experience. But the language that is used allows pe you know, people to kind of connect. ⁓ there's also people that are like, you know, just really understanding like what are you looking for? ⁓ you know, you may have been a B C B A, but just because you're a B C B A doesn't mean that you're a great B C B A or a great B C B A for this particular company. Yes. ⁓ that is, you know, this because this is an ABA company, this is a great experience for you. So again, just To your point, that I think that nuance of being able to ⁓ understand a little bit more because I've seen a little bit more helps me ⁓ speak the language. speaker-1: Yeah, I think that that probably and I like and we'll kind of get into like what what is the process. Yeah you know, for someone that is taking this on, what would the process be? What is the most effective way to hire? But I I think like another knowing how the BCBA fits into the company, w the role that they are performing. Like I assume that you can read a resume and say, yeah, I think that this is probably going to be a good fit, or no, I don't know that this is the right one for this company. You know, and I I think that that allows you to kind of weed out the candidates that may not fit this culture, this company, this phase of the company, right? Versus startup versus twenty year ⁓ practice. So I think that that like ⁓ must be make things easier ⁓ for both you and and the B C B A's and the companies that you're working with. speaker-0: I I'm thinking about some of the conversation that we had before we pressed the scores, right? and just kind of a switch of gears a little bit. But you were talking about how the needs of the company are important but in the culture, right? But then there's also that piece that is determined by how many years of business that that a company is like a startup who hasn't even hit their f first year anniversary versus ⁓ a company who's been in serv in you know, been in been alive, been in service or whatever for twenty years, right? That there is like such a there's there are differences there. And that's part of what you do, a part of the curiosity and how you learn what's going on is is also to have an understanding in that. So I don't know, maybe we could talk about what those differences are and speaker-2: Yeah, no, absolutely. ⁓ so when I moved to the ⁓ it was a company in the Midwest, it was again kind of a it was a spin-off of another company that was doing ABA services, but they ⁓ it was kind of new. And so I was a part of the team that helped kind of establish. So one of the things that we we thought was a great idea at the time was to go and meet with universities that were going to graduate new graduates ⁓ that were gonna become B C B A's. ⁓ We started those relationships with them, ⁓ the head of the the university in in the ABA ⁓ lane, and it was started off well. ⁓ our first five hires were recent graduates. And our idea was that we're gonna be there, we're gonna have this pipeline, we're gonna have these BCBAs where we're not gonna have to necessarily search for, you know, from a broad perspective, but we have a a a well-oiled pipeline. The challenge with that was because of our experience in the past, we were giving the reins and the keys to individuals that ⁓ were not ready. ⁓ and so because they were recent graduates, they have a little bit of experience, but they have different experiences. ⁓ whatever company they came from as an RBT, as they learned in in their ABA field and got their hours, things of that nature, ⁓ their great knowledge of ABA, great knowledge of autism, ⁓ the services that they do, all of that is great. But when you put the keys in their hands to now manage a team, ⁓ to create a culture, ⁓ to know have difficult conversations with potential parents that may not be good for a good fit for the company, ⁓ or to refer them out. You know, th those type of nuances to deal with a difficult RBT that may have had other experiences, like, well, I think we should do this with the child. And you're like, Well, I'm the BCBA. ⁓ so those type of conversations become you could tell that they were a little bit more difficult. ⁓ then you move to a company that has been a little bit more established. ⁓ we may they could use somebody that is a gr a recent graduate because you already have some that are tenured there that they can pour into and invest in and help develop. And that that newer BCBA now can learn from other senior B C BAs or clinical directors or whatever, ⁓ or some that have been in the field for a little while and they learn those nuances. And so what there was a learning experience for us, especially for me, is because again, we were thinking we were gonna have this nice little pipeline. However the the challenge was that they needed to be developed in these other areas. ⁓ and so they had the hard skills but the soft skills were were missing. ⁓ and so some companies that are a little bit more established, they can handle that type of that type of ⁓ transition. There are some that are a little bit more newer they may not have the funds to do it they may not have the time to do it. ⁓ and you know because of the pressure of starting a new ABA company maybe they're working with particular families Maybe they started off with a great BCBA, that BCBA has transitioned or into a different area or something like that. And now they're having a backfield and they're feeling the weight of these long wait lines, the waiting list, you know, with these kids that are waiting to get services. And you're wanting to be successful, but you just don't have the leverage, the time, the thickness of your years to be able to weather those type of storms. Where some of the older companies, more established companies, they've been through those things already and they can make a little bit more adjustments. speaker-1: Yeah, I I think that was something that we saw with our practice when when it was just April, we had some RBTs and then we hired our first B C B A like and then we transitioned some of your cases to the to the and it was like, No, no, right, like we want April like right you know, and and that that can be very difficult. And then if you add on that layer of this is a newer B C B A that may not have the experience or the confidence to take on these cases, you know, you're already dealing with the fact you're not April. And then you add on that layer. Do you know what I a and that that makes it really hard ⁓ to to build our relationship. Yeah. speaker-0: Right. And I think there's like a different level, ⁓ a different level of intensity for founders, right? That it this is your baby. This is like you're pouring your sweat and tears into it. And so of course when you're at the part of the game where it's all you and you know, now that's part of the whole growing and scaling piece that you can't stay there. I mean you could But if you have any intentions of growing or being able to sell your company one day or being able to to not work, you know, 60 hours a week, you are going to have to start to delegate and you're going to need to grow your team. But, you know, there are some amazing BCBAs and you can you can bring on staff that ⁓ that shine and that really help to they're a really great culture fit or they help to create the culture within your company. But I mean, that's just one of those growing pains at the very beginning when you have to shift out of the the role of, you know, client facing role and and parents and start to shift and putting other people in that role. That's those are kind of big shoes to feel fill because you're the founder. Like no one else is gonna care to the same level that you do. Now that's also part of the same reason why it's really hard to stay in that spot for very long because that takes so much effort and so much energy. ⁓ and that's why it is important to grow your team. And we talk about that a lot, about how not only just adding B C B A's to your to your staff, but what other needs, ⁓ what other what can you delegate? What do you are trying your best to do, but they aren't quite your skill set? Okay, let's find somebody that that is their skill set that they can come on and help. speaker-2: the the the gentleman that I worked with that brought me into ABA, ⁓ I went to the last three locations with him. So every time that he moved to another company, he would bring me on ⁓ with him. ⁓ so I had to give him a lot of kudos. And I learned a lot from him in regards to ⁓ I remember him sharing with me, ⁓ he calls me JB. He's like, Hey JB, if you're here in the next five years, I'm gonna be upset with you. Like you should be moving up. You should be moving forward. and that was his mentality. And I ended up incorporating that in my conversations with RBTs. ⁓ I had a clinical operations manager. ⁓ she was looking to become a BCBA. She was getting her hours, things of that nature. But I remember having a conversation with her and I what do you what do you want to do? And she's like I want to have my own B ABA practice at at some point. And I'm like, okay, so if you want your own ABA practice, you're you have you're going to learn the clinical because that's what you're going for. But you're also going to need to know this operation side. So I would bring her into meetings that I was having ⁓ on the operation side, I would bring her into what I'm thinking about, even as I'm doing scheduling, how I'm trying to put these pieces together, pair this particular RBT with this particular client at this particular time, all of those things. And so she started to learn and I started showing her the PL and the cost of things and all of that. So when we would hold our meet meetings, sometimes I would let her run the meeting because I'm giving her that experience of being able to, okay, at some point I'm going to own my own company. To this day, she has her own company. ⁓ and she's seems to be doing well. But I think it's because, you know, when you understand like what you're looking for, there are some BCBAs that I've talked to, they are doing the scheduling. They are trying to handle the operations and and still do qu quality care, which is gonna be difficult. You're gonna get burnt out, and a lot of them are. ⁓ which is why a lot of them move to, okay, I'm just gonna be a telehealth BCBA. I have some more flexibility, I have you know, the ability to do these things. ⁓ there's other BCBAs that are more attracted to the four days on, one day off approach. You know, that's becoming a new trend now that it's it seems to be appealing. ⁓ the conversations about lower caseloads, you know, because again, there's a so many BCBAs that are burnt out because of a model that is forcing them to not that goes beyond the clinical and into the operational. ⁓ and so it becomes a little bit more difficult. When you start adding the other pieces that say, Hey, we just want you to focus on the clinical. We'll handle the operations, we'll handle all the these other nuances and things of that nature. We just want you to be able to build. some BCBAs love that, but there are other BCBAs like I do want to have my own practice at some point. I want to learn those experiences, and they tend to go to those companies that the owners are struggling and all of that, and to bring in a superstar that. may not be here for the next five years or within five years or whatever she's gonna he or she is gonna move on. And that's fine. But within this five years, you're gonna learn the the nuances of things. And as a founder, I have to be able to have or an owner, I have to be able to give that person space to learn those things as well. And knowing that, hey, there is an expiration date on this, but at that point we we've already scaled to where we're trying to get to. speaker-1: Yeah, I I've had the unfortunate experience with a a few B C B A's where they were in that situation. They wanted to start their own practice. They got they got their CAQH, they updated it, and the owner found out and they just immediately terminated them. Right. Like that's ⁓ that's just like ⁓ j you know, forget about the human that you're firing, but there there's, you know, ten clients, ⁓ there's R BTs Like i it your own revenue, right? Like you're only hurting yourself and your families. Yeah. Your reputation. Like it's just ⁓ so yeah, that that's a really and then there are I have been with other ones that are please don't leave, I'll give you a raise, or ⁓ how can I help you? Let let me help you build this. And th those are wonderful, right? Like this isn't a competition. You know, we're not competing against each other. We're trying to help, you know, individuals in need. And so, you know, how you frame it can certainly ⁓ determine the outcome of those experiences. speaker-0: And as hard a and harsh as that is. And I've I know these stories and I've heard them myself. as much as it really stinks in that moment, it's like, Okay, well, you know, did you really want to work with a company like this anyways? Right. Right. Right. Now you know. Now you know. yeah. And and so and some people it just puts them into that process even quicker to get their business started and gives them that motivation they need to make that step in the direction ⁓ in the right direction to open up their own company and then other people ⁓ you know, it's they Realize okay, maybe I can find a different job and some people leave the field altogether. speaker-1: So when you're working like so I guess this would be for new owners. They don't want to do well, it doesn't have to be new owners, it can be anybody. But like they they don't want to go the recruiter route, which I totally get. That's fine. ⁓ like is I've been recommending Indeed. I don't know of any other platform for hiring that is better than that, to be honest. ⁓ I know that you can spend thousands of dollars a month on Indeed though. So like what what are like best practices for companies that need RBTs, they need BTs or ⁓ sorry, B C B A's. Like, do you have a go to site that you recommend is indeed the best? And then through the process, like what are you recommending ⁓ this a huge question. What what are you recommending as far as like what do they put in the the job description? How do they go about the hiring process? Like where does this start? speaker-2: No, absolutely. I think ⁓ the most expensive thing is your time. And I think for a lot of owners, spending a lot of time, because there is a lot of admin work that goes into recruiting. there's the the initial reach out, then somebody applies, there's the back and forth, the scheduling and interview time, you know, actually getting that person on an interview. There's sometimes that ⁓ you know, especially if you're looking for a BT, it's an entry-level position. all of that. You're also having to do research to see what the market tells you is a good, you know, pain point. You know, I have some clients in California, you know, they start off at twenty four dollars an hour. Right. ⁓ there's others that like we're not we're not going past nineteen. ⁓ and so, you know, you have to kind of know your market and know it well and ⁓ and then to look in those particular places. Like you, you know, there are some companies that hey we work with our kiddos are like three to five, all of that. We we want younger ⁓ BTs and R B Ts and you're trying not to discriminate but that's kinda like you're like, Hey, I this is what I envision my makeup and all of that. So it takes time to weed out the what you're looking for. and, you know, ⁓ those pieces. And so there's a company that I'm also working with, they're like, Hey, this I need this person to have their own transportation. Reliable transportation is not it. I need them to have their own transportation. So there's Yeah, like there's a lot of different whatever their experience was in the past with those that, you know, take a bus or Uber or whatever. ⁓ they'd rather not go down that road. But again, you don't see that on a resume. ⁓ and so it takes some admin time, it takes some time to kind of go through that. So that's what I would say. If if I'm an owner, do I want to spend that time to do that? Or do I just go ahead and pay for somebody to do that for me, regardless of what the cost is, so that I can get quality. So that by the time I do an interview or one of my teammates do an interview, they've already gone through the sourcing process, they've already gone through an initial touch. And so I already have a lot of the questions answered already. And so I can now dig deeper ⁓ to if this is going to be a good fit for me. So I think the time is going to be like the biggest piece. The second piece I would say is you know, I think a lot of a lot of and I've learned this as well. I had this, I have trial and error myself. ⁓ but doing a post, most people don't read the entire post. ⁓ if they're on Indeed or if they're on ZipRecruiter or if they're on LinkedIn. ⁓ they're gonna scan through ⁓ certain points. ⁓ so I like to try to embolden points that I think that may catch their attention. ⁓ I hate to say it like this, but in a lot of ways, recruiting is like fishing. ⁓ and what your bait is is going to attract the the fish, right? ⁓ and so I think that there's a l a a big piece. So I may say, hey, smaller caseloads, embolden. ⁓ you know, I may put on there ⁓ you know, the the the salary rate or the hourly rate. ⁓ you know, and embolden that I may have like bullet points that I try to hit, but I also try to say something that is attractive about the company. ⁓ you know, hey, we are a fun, thrilling company that looks at this, or ⁓ if you're looking for, you know, something where you have, you know, 25 to 30 hours, or if you're a full time, you know, looking for a full time employee, hey, 40 hours, you know, or whatever. There are times where I talk to behavioral, you know, techs or therapists and RBTs. They're wanting something that is in between the 35 to 40 hour range. There's some companies that can't afford that. They're like our kiddos or part-time. You're only gonna get 20 hours. ⁓ so initially, if I'm on online and I'm on Indeed or whatever, those key factors help me to weave myself out. ⁓ and so ⁓ it that helps. So being able to communicate what you're looking for, be clear about what you're looking for, but also put it in an attractive way, like, you know, what do I love about my company? ⁓ and when I talk to some owners, They have a story. Maybe put your story in there. ⁓ you know, and allow people to come when they're reading. They may want to read a little bit longer because maybe you have like a quick, you know, thing about that. ⁓ you know, the company that is ⁓ only ⁓ all B C B A's, they don't hire RBTs. ⁓ and so I put on there no RBTs, you know, emboldened, right? And B C B A owned. And these 12 B C B A's are, you know, do they do these things. So I may put it like that to again attract a person that is scanning on Indeed, because most people on Indeed, they're going to apply to 25 positions without even reading. They're just going to see the headline, they're going to see a little blurb, and they're just going to hit submit ⁓ and quick apply. Same thing with the LinkedIn. So my goal is to really try to get them to stop for a second and read a little bit further by making it attractive. speaker-1: Yeah, I and like what are you gonna do with those twenty five? 'Cause you know, you as the business owner, you're doing parent training, supervision, right? ⁓ what doing the billing probably too? And now you gotta stop and like ⁓ man, like twelve people responded to my post. That's so awesome. And ⁓ now your message, your email and your calling and no one they're all ghosting you. You set up a Zoom meeting that no one shows up, right? ⁓ like and speaker-0: that I'm learning right now, right? Like through working with Joseph for this very short time is how important it is to follow up quickly. Yeah. How how like fast they just like you just lose them. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. And and and like the the the demand is so high at this point. Like like like I I tell pe I I've told people don't even bother with LinkedIn at this point. I find it's like the Tinder for for B C B A's, right? They're just swiping right. Like it's like they've got like a hundred messages in their inbox, Hey, join this com ⁓ amazing, awesome team, right? And it's like, no, I'm not even like I'm not even looking speaker-0: I get those often. I mean, I'm not I'm don't worry, I'm not looking for a good job. But ⁓ I I get them often and I yeah, I mean it's just like junk, right? Now, if I were like maybe if I'm like super unhappy with where I'm at and I'm really curious, really motivated to find that right company, maybe I'm gonna spend a little more time actually reading those. And if one stands out to me, you know, right, you have the right the right wording in there ⁓ that matches what I'm looking for and I think, ⁓ this this one might be worth responding to, right? But it but still if if you have lines and lines and lines of text and it's all just the same old words everybody else is putting, right? Then you're gonna be less likely to stop and and and read further. speaker-2: Right. And you know, you're there's there's ⁓ we all have certain pain points and and things that you know ⁓ trigger us. And I think that there is a I think there's something to ⁓ timing. and there's some B C BAs, and I think well I don't see B C B A's, I think anybody in general. What's the hurt in having a conversation? ⁓ and that's where I kind of come in where I like to come in, it's like let's just have a conversation. I mean, if it doesn't work, there's not you don't you don't lose anything. ⁓ but you do get to hear ⁓ what this company is looking for. ⁓ you get to hear where it may be a good fit for you and then we just kinda go from there. ⁓ but at the same time to your point, I may not be the only person that they're having a conversation with and they're having multiple conversations because maybe they don't know what they're looking for just yet. ⁓ they just want to get out of the situation that they're in. ⁓ and so, you know, they may not know what's out there. ⁓ and so yeah, it is definitely important that A company knows ⁓ their interviewing stages and how they want to move forward once a candidate is identified, because now the time is of the essence. ⁓ because they are having these conversations and you have to be a little bit more I don't want to say ⁓ forceful, but you do have to be somewhat aggressive in your approach. ⁓ because most people who are on the market, especially with unemployment being so high. Let me know that you want me. speaker-1: I hadn't even thought about it like that. Yeah, that's that's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I like I I speaker-0: want we all want to be valued. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We all want to be important, especially those of us who are in this field. I would say even a good portion of like ⁓ techs who are brand new to the field. You you but you also like speaker-1: You gotta wine a diamond. speaker-0: You're doing this for a certain reason because you want to be helpful. Sure. Maybe you enjoy working with kids. Maybe, yeah, but like this is kind of a helping field. I mean, there might be a handful of people out there who are just looking for a job. I mean, they don't care at this point what it is, but the majority are like they want to be helpful. And so, like, show me how I could be helpful. Like, what's my worth? speaker-2: Absolutely. I mean, and a lot of for the BCBAs, you put in so many hours working on the floor, you put in so many hours in school, you know, you taking this very difficult BCBA exam, you know, to to become certified. ⁓ you've worked with some great ⁓ you know, supervisors and you've worked with some some some very bad ones. Yeah. So ⁓ you've had some different experiences. So now when you're moving to a new opportunity, you want to see to your point, like Am I going to be helpful? What can I do to, you know, make this place a better place? All of that. And then you also like one of the things that I like to ask as well as a recruiter is like, what are you looking for? Like people could be looking for the money, which is a reality. Yeah. There's other pieces that are like, I just want to be at a place where I'm not being micromanaged. ⁓ you know, that's a piece. There's another piece where like I don't want to feel like if I don't meet my billables that I'm gonna lose my job, you know, or work in fear. ⁓ those type of things are important. And so I try to find what they're looking for, knowing that I've already had these conversations with the the the companies, and that helps me to identify if this is gonna be a good fit for them. I try to work on both ends to where if it's not gonna be a good fit, I don't want to waste anybody's time. and because again, it's not about making money for me. I want the the value of man, Joseph was very helpful. you know, ⁓ and helping me find what I'm looking for. It's kind of like a car salesman. Nobody wants to be sold a car. You leave off the lot. You're like, why did I get this? Right. ⁓ my my goal is to say when you leave the lot is, I mean, I made this purchase. Even if you consider me, you know, helping you to find what you're looking for or not, but you feel like you found what you were looking for and now you're off to to the races. And so my goal is to help you kind of like navigate what you're looking for. And a lot of BCBs are like, Man, that's a great question. I never really thought about that. But yeah, you need to consider that because you're making a move and jumping from one company to the next. It's gonna be important for you to know that. Otherwise, again, you're gone in three months. speaker-1: Yeah. I I think that again speaks to the the experience that you have because you're asking them these questions where a small company, startup, maybe even mid, they're not asking these questions yet, or they don't have the time to ask these questions, or they haven't even thought about like what what would I even ask them, right? They're ⁓ they have their ⁓ the they're licensed, they might say, okay, hired, right? Like and and then you know, you you like you said, six months later they're gone. And dude, we just got you credentialed and now you're le you know speaker-0: Yeah. I mean it makes me think back to the turnover rates, right? ⁓ and and now I know like the larger companies was like a hundred and four percent turnover rate, whatever that even is. Like I don't even know what a hundred and four percent turnover is. Like the people get turned over twice, I don't know. But like but but and then you know, you've mentioned it multiple times. ⁓ those of you who are at like who follow us and listen every week, sorry for repeating ourselves. It was just that memorable that that one person on on Facebook or whatever, or LinkedIn, whatever it was on social media said you just have to have a robust hiring system. Yeah, in response to the turnover. And so if if a lot of owners are in that mindset or or in that space where they're just they're just having to fill spaces. Yeah. They may not even even if they want to really be able to do this better, they may not they may feel stuck and they may feel like they don't have that that ⁓ capability to do it better because they just gotta get it. They're not get someone in and hope for speaker-1: The best. It's like this loop of doom, right? Because you're just like constantly trying to fill a spot that they just left. And to your point, you hired an RBT because they're an RBT and they didn't maybe they didn't realize they only needed they only wanted twenty hours. I I can remember like doing interviews, ⁓ and we would say, Okay, this is a full time position. Here's here's the you know, the hours that we're we're gonna need from you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's all all great, awesome. ⁓ y they start, they do their training. Okay, now here's your case. ⁓ yeah, I can't I can't work that later. speaker-0: Can't work on Tuesdays and Thursdays from four to seven. Yeah. Cause we would say, like, you know, here's the here's a potential schedule. Like it would be like Monday through Friday, I don't know, one to six or one to seven. I can't do the math in my head, but like an afternoon, early evening shift, and then Saturday every Saturday morning, or you have to work at least one Saturday a month or whatever. And they're like, Yeah, absolutely. And then we give them their first schedule. They're ⁓ I don't work Saturdays. speaker-1: Or yeah, I can't work in the morning or I I can't work past five because and and like they're legitimate re But like that's not what we told you. And and so like that like that in itself, like ⁓ man, just I this is bringing back PTSD to be honest. Like it's i this is a r it is really hard. So yeah. I remember one interview where it was over Zoom and and ⁓ one of our BCBAs was there and we got on and this guy showed up. speaker-0: Totally. speaker-1: And we were asking, you know, the what we were asking like ABA questions, right? And he was like, ⁓ yeah. Like he wouldn't really answer, right? And and hil ⁓ well, ⁓ yeah, I already made it so Hillary was there and she said, What do you even want? Like why why are you here? Like I I mean and he I just I was just curious. I was like, What what are you doing like there there are three people in this room? You just wasted three hours of of our life. Like what what are you even speaker-0: ⁓ Do you So so yeah, so this is like story time I think. I I one of our first I I like to think that I got good at hiring people. I was really good at like it just so I I as we learned, as we grew, right? I my team we like had a whole team that hired, right? And I was like, You guys are being too professional, you're being too stuffy, you're asking all the right questions. I was like, I want these people to loosen up. I wanna see what they're really like. Sure. Right. And so within five minutes, this one particular interview, within five minutes, I had this girl talking about how many let's see, how can I put this in a way that's ⁓ how many nights a week that she was out with friends past two AM drinking adult beverages and hey, look at my new nails and ⁓ yeah, I'm going on a cruise next month. Like she was telling me all the all the all the stuff and I was like, ⁓ I'm so happy for you, but you're not the right person for us. And ⁓ and and so and then there was this other person who literally showed this was one of the first people we interviewed. Do you remember showed up for the interview ⁓ dressed up for a night on the town still? speaker-1: Think I remember this one, yeah. Pretty sure she was was like I'm going to the club after speaker-0: And cleavage and all like black leather. I mean she was right and and and then she was like, How much longer of this interview? Because my cab's waiting outside. And I was like, We were interviewing her to work with two and three year olds in the floor at someone's home. Yeah. And I was like, ⁓ my gosh, what are we getting ourselves into? Right. ⁓ but that that yeah, yeah. We're just, you know. speaker-2: Okay. speaker-0: So and that that's just a couple, right? That's just a that's just a couple of some you know, and then there are the handful that more than handful that just never showed up. And then I that was like during like the whole COVID times, that changed the whole face of it for me. Like I I feel like I got really good at interviewing and hiring and I had some level of gut understanding, gut feeling, connection with people to know to have a you never know. You never know, no, but to have a really good understanding if this is the right person for our team is this who I would but but then I but then I couldn't do it all the time. So I then I I trained my team how to do it. And they did pretty good too. But then then COVID hit and just all of the what all I don't even know. All of the stuff that hit with that, I realized in our company we lost a lot of really key players. ⁓ a lot of staff that had been with us since we started. Yeah. And ⁓ but through COVID, through, you know, jo spouse job we also live near a military, so, you know, getting relocationed, right? one decided she wanted to go on to grad school to become ⁓ a speech therapist. And so she had to move out of state. Like Yeah, there was like life, like really life changes which great. speaker-1: There was an earth therapy one too. Well we speaker-0: We're like, I'm so proud of you. Yes, go chase these dreams. You can do it. This is amazing. but then we were not prepared for replacing these people in 2021. Right. And and that is I I've told the story before, but this is what I was like. Yeah. I'm done. I was already getting ready. Steven had been ready for a couple years. Couple years. And ⁓ and I was like, okay, that we're okay, we're done now. speaker-1: That's it. We're done. speaker-0: And ⁓ so so I s I say that to say like it's ⁓ it's it's a lot. There's an art to it. There's a lot to it. There's takes a lot of time and a lot of attention. Yep. And my hope for for all of you listening, ⁓ who whether you've started yet or you're thinking about starting, ⁓ or you're like, Yeah, I've got this part under control. I know what I'm doing here. My my hope is that speaker-1: There's an art. speaker-0: That you are able to really take the time necessary to really do the work to hire to try your best to hire the right people and not play into the turnover because there is a big piece of the turnover that is just putting the warm bodies in. And and it it's okay. They could be an amazing tech, they could be amazing behavior analysts. But not for your company and that's okay. Right. That that's better to know that earlier on. speaker-1: And then that's where the recruiter comes in, right? And there's probably it's probably a reason why these larger companies have ⁓ hiring team on you know that they're on payroll. So yeah, that's true. You know what I mean? 'Cause so they can take care of that where their BCBA or clinical team they get the people that have been vetted like you're doing, right? Like like this is a this is a like a ninety-five percent yes. You're just doing the final, you know, checkbox and and now we're moving on. speaker-0: So yeah. speaker-2: I think there's a p a big piece because there's so many to your point, there's so many different layers where there's HR things that are related, you know, being ⁓ compliant, you know, clinically, but then also with the state and you know, all these different nuances and it those things just take so much time. And if you're not in the right hire, you have to go through those things over and over again. ⁓ this person says that, you know, that they want to file a lawsuit because of this, and now you have to go into those things and then you're trying to hire as well. Yes. The the the timing of of those things are critical. And April, you bring up a great point. Like I think about ⁓ you know, it wasn't just that we found this person be to be a good fit for this particular c kiddo that we're thinking that to pair them with. But if we make this wrong hire, we could impact some of our stronger RBTs who were like, well this person called out so now I have to take on two kiddos. Right. ⁓ you know, and I have to always, you know, fill in the gap for them if they're late or whatever. And those things become culture eaters, you know. ⁓ and I think you're gonna have attrition anyway, you're gonna have turnover anyway, it's part of the nature of the the the the business that we're in. But not only were we the fastest growing company when I was at this other company, but we were we had the lowest turnover rate. ⁓ and a lot of that was being able to have those difficult conversations, be wise about who we're gonna bring in. Yeah. ⁓ when we did the interview process, yeah, I was more on the operations ⁓ viewpoint. And then we had our clinical team that was a part of the the they came with clinical questions. So we had both sides of the the playing field where it wasn't just me in there doing an interview because there's gonna be some questions that I'm not gonna ask that you want me to ask, ⁓ all that from a clinical perspective because I'm not necessarily clinical. but To your point, like being able to get people comfortable with the conversation, they start to tell a lot. And you're able to, you know, some people like to hear themselves talk and you just let them talk. And you get to learn a lot about them. And you get to say, okay, now that I've earned heard all of this, I don't know if this is going to be a good fit for us. and you also realize, like, hey, there's some companies, especially if they're starting off, they're like, I don't have the time to train. Or I don't have the resources to train. So I need a person that is already in RBT that is already trained and I can bring them in. Definitely understand that. But there's also a piece of that to say RBTs can come with baggage. Yes. Because they have learned bad habits. So by the time that they get to you, it may not be advantageous for you to bring them in. So those are things that you know you kind of weigh out. ⁓ one of the things that we did was we didn't hire all rock stars because all rock stars can butt heads. So you bring in some rock stars, you bring in some people that are just reliable. They're not great, but they get the job done. They ⁓ you know, fill out their ⁓ they render their hours and they convert their hours ⁓ before the end of the day, and they have those. And you have some that are a little iffy, but you need more people in. And so you can kind of see if like, hey, if if they just need training, maybe they just need training, all of that. They're not great right now, but they could be good, you know, at some point. Those different layers and tiers helped us to be able to say, okay, once we get them in, now we do have to focus on our training aspect. Now we do have to focus on our culture and being able to talk about those things. Hey guys, clean out the refrigerator if you put your stuff in there, you know. ⁓ hey help take the trash out, especially during COVID. Spray your your toys down and all of that so that the next person or next kiddo when they come in, they're not being impacted by the germs and all of that. Those things become part of the culture and it helps with the attrition. And now if I am a company that cuts people off or I'm, you know, angry that this person left and they're wanting to move on, it's such a tight community. People talk. Yes. And don't go to that company. Don't don't do this. Don't do that. And then that impacts your hiring process as well. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm gonna pivot a little bit ⁓ and talk about a bit of current events that are going on. specifically the RBT strike. What are a lot of the pain points for RBTs? How as owners we can support them, right? How we can decrease turnover rate, how we can help them to to to be able to enjoy their job and get what they need for their job. speaker-2: Yeah, no, I think it all all comes down to communication. If you could communicate to a person, hey, this is where we are right now. Like we we would love to be able to give you the training, all of that. This is where we are currently. We want to do this, but then do ⁓ some check-ins, which is again, I feel now for supported, right? I may not have the training aspect that I'm really looking for because you just hired me last week and now I'm already working with the kiddo. and I don't know what I'm doing. And I I'm hoping that I'm doing this well. but I feel supported because you're checking in with me. You're asking me, do I have all the materials that I need? You're asking me, do I have any additional questions? So even though I know may not have the great two week training, I'm on these modules, I'm getting the, you know, I'm being shadowed, all of that. I may not have all of that that training, but at least I feel supported. ⁓ the other piece is ⁓ what I found is you ⁓ Understanding what each individual BT and RBT are looking for. There's some people that are words of affirmation. You just tell me that I did a did a great job. That means the world to me. That that I I feel seen, that I be you know, ⁓ that I did this, done this hard work. And some of them will go through the moon for you because you have they felt appreciated and you have shared that you're you appreciate and that you see them. There's others that are like, no, pay me. ⁓ That's how I feel appreciated. ⁓ the words of affirmation are great, but that only can last for only for so long. Sure. You know, I I feel appreciated when you pay me. ⁓ there are others that are like, hey, you know, ⁓ I want to feel like I'm moving up, like I don't want to remain just this place ⁓ at this place. And so we had to establish tiers of R V T levels, ⁓ where they got a little bit more, you know, ⁓ responsibilities and maybe got like a 50 cent raise or whatever. ⁓ and kind of helped them to see like, okay, like I I feel like I am progressing, that I'm not just stuck. Those things kinda help. ⁓ and then also when you have we had listen, we had a BCBA that literally would take off and go get her nails done and would not support the staff, ⁓ would need to be there for supervisions, would skip out on the supervisions. And we had higher management that was not doing anything. ⁓ those RBTs would come to me and be like, Joseph, like What what like we need to do something? I'm not getting my hours. I'm not getting signed off on things. ⁓ I don't feel supported. I have this difficult child. The child is hitting me, biting me, all of these things. I don't I don't feel supported. if I don't do something, I'm going to lose that those staff. And so I had to do something. That BCBA ended up getting fired. But now the staff are like, now I feel appreciated because I feel heard. You did something about it. The longer that I don't do anything about it, the less the more likely I am wanting to leave this situation because I don't feel supported. And then the last thing I would say at the company that I had, we had eight RBTs that were looking to get their ⁓ unrestricted hours ⁓ to become they wanted to go into becoming a B C B A. That's great. That means that we potentially have eight new B C BAs coming down the pipeline. ⁓ but we didn't have the infrastructure for it. And so we could not afford for them to be on admin time and all of that. Well, they went to a company that did. So those are the type of things that you kind of weigh out, like, okay, where are we at? What can we do? But the most important thing is the communication. I'm communicating what we can and cannot do. ⁓ we hope that you can remain here. If not, whatever. ⁓ and then because that communication is so warm and it's so constant, a lot of BCBAs, I'm gonna say it not all. But a lot of BCBAs and RBTs and all of that, they will share with you, hey, I start school in three months. Or hey, you know, things are gonna change for me here, all of that. And that gives you a little bit more time to make some adjustments. The things that are you can't foresee is like, hey, I gotta quit today. you know, and then like, ⁓ okay, now what do we do? and so, but that constant communication, if I'm there, I already kind of see some things brewing. I can see some people maybe getting frustrated. I may even be able to tell like. Okay, they're not gonna be here long. I need to maybe look for a replacement for them, or maybe I need to let them go because they are being toxic to the culture, they're gossiping, they're doing these things, all of that. ⁓ and so to your point, it's an art. It's really, really trying to understand your team, the temperature of your team, the fabric of your team, and then what is gonna be best for your culture and what you envision. Because I think a lot of owners ⁓ or people who are in in ownership positions with these ABA companies. They're just looking for how do we get there? We've already established what our goal is financially for the year and how do we go how are we going to get there? And there's a lot of things that happen throughout the year and you're like, but I'm still trying to get to that end point. The goal is not necessarily the end point. The end point is going to come, but if you take care of your staff, the staff will take care of you. speaker-0: Well this has been an amazing conversation. ⁓ did you I mean I yeah, I mean of course you do. But that's like Joseph is Joseph is one of us now. So we can we can hop back on any time and and continue this conversation. ⁓ but I I do think this is a a good spot to unless you have speaker-1: More questions. No, I I just have one one other question and then we can end. But ⁓ so there are gonna be some people that listen to this and they're like, Yeah, that sounds wonderful, but I'm not I'm not doing it. And that's fine, right? Like totally fine. Is there like is there one hiring app that that is like you would say, Okay, if you're gonna if you're gonna do this yourself, this is the best bang for your buck, right? This is your best option if you're just gonna pick one. ⁓ or is it That doesn't work and you've got to go th with multiple and here are the top five. I I I don't even know. speaker-2: It depends on your budget. ⁓ there are there are apps out there. It's a it's basically an AI app. So basically you can put in a parameter, you can put in the criteria that you want, and basically it just feeds you a whole bunch of people that may be on the market. and all of those things that and and it goes to various job boards. Okay. ⁓ there's they have like a monthly subscription and then they have a yearly subscription. There are ATS that ⁓ application tracking systems that are out there that you can put your position in. It goes to multiple job boards. All of that, again, depends on your budget. ⁓ ZipRecruiter is good for very specific things. ⁓ so there are a lot of people that are on ZipRecruiter, but you're probably gonna find a lot more people on Indeed. It's just advertised a lot more, it seems a little bit bigger. there's layers to that as well. So if you do like a free job posting that's on there, you're gonna be very, very low on the purpose that you're trying to attract. ⁓ and so there are certain keywords that you wanna try to put in, all of that. Indeed seems to be ⁓ what I kind of go to ⁓ just because I've worked in it for so long. you know, I know some of the nuances, some of the keywords that are critical to doing that as well. ⁓ I have found success with LinkedIn. ⁓ I know that there's some ⁓ some some challenges there, but again, based off of the budget for some high critical roles, you know, you can pay for being able to reach out to people. And again, you never know who you're gonna connect with at the right time. ⁓ so even in Massachusetts, I was able to find two BCBAs out there in about a week's time because you know, you put it out there at the right time. to respond all those things. ⁓ so it just kind of depends. But again, the most success that I've kind of found is with Indeed. But again, with those higher levels, you can reach out to certain BCBAs. Again, kind of put it out there. Another thing that I would say from a a low cost perspective is to go on Facebook or join certain groups. Sure. Put their you know positions out there to see if they're gonna attract anything that doesn't cost you anything. Right. ⁓ and you may get some people like, man, I'm right in the area As of yesterday I wasn't thinking about this, but now I am today. and so you're right there. So those those are some some things I think for the listeners that, you know, be some options for them. speaker-1: And like just to a ⁓ go off of that, sorry, I'm gonna like I've got thirty minutes more of conversation. But so like that sounds great and wonderful, but it sounds like I'm imagining hours and hours of time is being spent to do this effectively. ⁓ What is a reasonable y you're working with a small ABA company, like okay, how much time should I be spending every week on ads, on reaching out, on making phone calls? Right, like what what am I looking at? Is this is this thirty minutes? Is this is this two hours? Is it, you know, five like what what would be a reasonable expectation you would give someone to that they would have to spend? speaker-2: Yes, it's ⁓ it's a lot of hours that go into even just one position. ⁓ you know, because you're trying to get as much as much exposure as possible. ⁓ you're also having these conversations with individuals. You set them up interviews and schedulings and things of that nature. ⁓ you also don't want to waste your time. Maybe you are in parent trainings, maybe you are working with staff, maybe you are dealing with HR compliance issues. and we talked about the the you know, how quickly you can respond. and so, you know, for me and my company, even at Tamma Group Solutions, is like we try to make sure that when somebody reaches out, whether that's a client or a candidate, then we respond quickly. you know, one, it makes them feel appreciated and wanted and that, you know, they're being engaged. And then the other piece of that is, yeah, we can close this gap really quickly. and, you know, now we're We're on to the next thing. ⁓ when when it it becomes a little bit more difficult when I'm trying to to juggle all these balls and make sure that none of them fall. when the reality is that it's likely that it's going to fall. and so, you know, th this is why I've come into the business. One, I wanna help people find really great jobs and I wanna help companies find really great people. ⁓ so speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. It's like I I remember doing this as ops, right? I didn't have any cases, like I no one would want me on a case anyway, right? But like so that that was something that I could spend, ⁓ I got a text or ⁓ I got a phone call, I can answer that now, or I can respond to that now. Where a a BCBA owned company and doing all the interviewing, all all of the a the research Like if you're not on the ball on this, it's just you're wasting so much time and money. ⁓ it it it's it's very difficult and I can understand why, you know, people are struggling finding the right people. speaker-2: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You spend a lot of time even on with the intake and you're like, okay, now we're building our, you know, our kiddo, you know, ⁓ waiting list, when are we getting people in? Now we don't have the staff. And then sometimes we have the staff you don't have enough intake and now the staff are frustrated because they're not getting their hours and it's a balancing act. But if you have somebody that's dedicated to say, Hey, I I'm I'm gonna work this area, all of that, again the time is the most expensive thing. Just to be clear on really identifying the work you're looking for. ⁓ if it is a clinical director that you're looking for, be very clear that that's what you're looking for. ⁓ if there's anything that goes along with it that what you're looking for is very important. the tier level, I mean the the the interview stages is gonna be important as well. I like to communicate to the staff when I do or staff the the ⁓ candidates that are applying to these roles, I like to explain to them what to expect next. if I'm telling them that it's a three stage process or two stages after me and it becomes a four or five stage process. Well, it becomes a problem. ⁓ you know, there are sometimes, you know, I would think a lot of times you can kind of tell if a person is gonna be a good fit for you by the first conversation. ⁓ you know, ⁓ there's some things that you can learn even if you bring them into an in-person interview. Maybe they work with the kiddos, they see the environment, they get to tour the center. speaker-1: That's a problem. speaker-2: Or, you know, even in the home in home persp per perspective, they do a Zim Zoom interview. You can kind of tell by personality and stuff like that. The longer that you ⁓ make it, the the more ⁓ temptation there is to look for somebody that is a little bit more quicker. ⁓ because people are either already feeling that pain and they're willing to change that quickly. ⁓ or two, there's a situation that's happening with their family and they're they're making a transition and they need something. ⁓ ASAP. And so being able to clearly communicate what you're looking for, how long the process is going to be, is very helpful in closing a deal. speaker-1: So on this podcast, we will be giving a freebie that you can download. So that will be ⁓ will we'll provide a like a step by step how to how to hire quickly ⁓ so that you don't lose these candidates that you really want in your company. So if that interests you, then you can download it. The link will be in the show notes. So ⁓ yeah, that's it. speaker-0: Right. Well I really enjoyed this conversation and I really appreciate you appreciate your time today, Joseph, and and all the knowledge that you had to share with us. speaker-2: Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you again for having me. speaker-1: Yeah, and ⁓ I'm gonna say one the the speaker-0: You're you always are gonna say what we're doing. speaker-1: One more thing. ⁓ but no, like the feedback that I've gotten from the customers that that you have interacted with and helped over this really short amount of time. ⁓ everybody says that you're awesome, right? That they really enjoy working with you. So thank you for joining our team and really helping out some amazing ⁓ ABA companies. speaker-2: Thank you, thank you, thank you. speaker-0: All right, well, for all of you listen, thank you so much for spending your time with us. And ⁓ just a quick reminder that we do have a free support group for all BCBA owners, all owners and and decision makers within the company. You don't have to be a B C B A to to join. It's any owner. ⁓ and so the link for that is in the show notes. And then also if you have a question for us or a story to share, ⁓ speaker-1: Recruiting nightmare. speaker-0: Creating nightmare, perhaps. ⁓ then ⁓ feel free to call our hotline and that number is also in the show notes. All right, we will see you next week. See ya. Thanks for joining us on ABA Business Leaders. speaker-1: We provide mentorship, courses, handbooks, billing support, credentialing, HIPAA support, web design, and more. Everything you need to build an ethical and sustainable ABA practice. speaker-0: You can find all of our resources at threepiesquar.com. speaker-1: Don't forget to subscribe and share this podcast with other ABA business owners. speaker-0: We'll see you next time, and remember, you don't have to build your practice alone.