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88. What We Carry From Our Families with Monika Wyss · Constellations and all that...

• 0:00
  Tracy: Kia ora, and welcome to Constellations and All That.
• 0:03
  Tracy: I'm your host, Tracey Cartwright, and together we will be exploring the world of family constellations with facilitators from, and clients from around the world, looking at different perspectives and experiences in the work, having a cup of tea and just chatting with some friends around their experiences in constellations.
• 0:23
  Tracy: We'd love for you to join us.
• 0:25
  Tracy: I hope that you enjoy this series as much as I have loved making it.
• 0:33
  Tracy: Kia ora, everyone.
• 0:34
  Tracy: Welcome to Constellations and All That.
• 0:37
  Tracy: Today I have the pleasure of chatting with my colleague, Monica.
• 0:40
  Tracy: Hey, how are you?
• 0:42
  Monika: Hi.
• 0:43
  Monika: Thank you for coming.
• 0:43
  Monika: Thank you so much.
• 0:44
  Monika: I'm really good.
• 0:45
  Monika: I'm really good.
• 0:46
  Monika: Great.
• 0:46
  Monika: Hello from Malaysia.
• 0:47
  Tracy: Ah, fantastic.
• 0:48
  Tracy: I was just about to say, would you like to introduce yourself, uh, where you're from?
• 0:53
  Tracy: Anything that's sort of like sitting there.
• 0:54
  Tracy: You know how sometimes people will do a, an introduction.
• 0:58
  Tracy: I like my guests to, to do their own so they can- Mm … share whatever's there for them.
• 1:03
  Monika: Thank you.
• 1:03
  Monika: Yes, sure.
• 1:04
  Monika: So I'm originally from Poland.
• 1:06
  Monika: I was born in Warsaw many, many years ago.
• 1:10
  Monika: And, uh, now I've been living in Malaysia for the past 23 years with my family.
• 1:16
  Monika: I have two adult kids.
• 1:18
  Monika: They've flown out of the nest, so they are- Mm … no more with us.
• 1:21
  Monika: One is in Europe, one is in, uh, UAE.
• 1:26
  Monika: So we are kind of back to just being the two of us and, um, I have five fur babies, two dogs, three cats.
• 1:35
  Monika: I really love animals.
• 1:37
  Monika: And, um, yeah, I've been in the field of constellations for quite a while.
• 1:43
  Monika: The first time I got in touch with constellations was in 2001, and not through the usual constellation that we, you know, that we experience in a group or one-on-one session, but through a psychokinesiology session, um- Sorry.
• 2:01
  Monika: I don't know … according to Dr. Klinghardt.
• 2:04
  Monika: Psychokinesiology- Okay … according to Dr.
• 2:06
  Monika: Klinghardt, a German doctor, and in a way that session was very, very much body and energy oriented, and using muscle testing, how we use in kinesiology, the therapist was able to find out entanglements.
• 2:27
  Monika: The session was done for my daughter and really for me this was a miracle.
• 2:34
  Monika: Just one session- Mm … released her of an issue of five years.
• 2:40
  Monika: Just miraculously, miraculously it was gone.
• 2:44
  Monika: And this is what brought me on that path of seeking, searching, really being curious about what's beyond what we can understand, what we can see, what we can feel, what we can hear.
• 3:01
  Monika: There is something more.
• 3:03
  Tracy: Mm.
• 3:04
  Monika: And basically since 2001- I would say I'm an explorer I didn't jump into constellation straight away because as said, it was psycho kinesiology, ps- psychokinesiology session.
• 3:18
  Monika: So I started learning kinesiology because I thought if my daughter could be helped in one session, then how much can we help the world, and of course- Wow … also our own family.
• 3:31
  Monika: Mm. And since then I'm on my path.
• 3:34
  Monika: I'm living in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.
• 3:37
  Monika: I'm having a beautiful holistic center called Heart Sanctuary.
• 3:41
  Monika: And yeah, my mission, my vision is to be reconnected with our hearts, and that's what I'm doing my best to spread where I go, where I do, uh, where I do my work.
• 3:55
  Monika: Yeah.
• 3:55
  Tracy: Mm.
• 3:56
  Monika: That's a little bit about me.
• 3:58
  Monika: Tracy: Wonderful.
• 3:59
  Monika: What, what, what took you to Kuala Lumpur from, um, Poland?
• 4:03
  Monika: My husband's job.
• 4:04
  Monika: So not from Poland.
• 4:06
  Monika: So I… When I was 22, I went to Switzerland to study, to study tourism, and this is where I met my husband.
• 4:14
  Tracy: Mm.
• 4:14
  Monika: And we got married.
• 4:16
  Monika: We had two children.
• 4:18
  Monika: So our children were six and two when he got an opportunity to go to Kuala Lumpur to build railway, double track.
• 4:27
  Monika: And then you know how it is with projects.
• 4:29
  Monika: After a while, project was finished and he, we were supposed to go back, but we really liked Malaysia, so we decided to stay.
• 4:39
  Monika: And yeah, 23 years later, we are still here
• 4:43
  Tracy: Well done.
• 4:44
  Monika: Yeah.
• 4:45
  Monika: Yeah.
• 4:45
  Tracy: Well done.
• 4:46
  Tracy: And so when you're… hold- you hold workshops as well as well?
• 4:51
  Tracy: I do.
• 4:51
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 4:52
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 4:52
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 4:52
  Monika: And
• 4:53
  Tracy: is it, is it mostly expats or is there a lot of, um-
• 4:57
  Monika: Mostly locals.
• 4:58
  Monika: Okay.
• 4:58
  Monika: Yeah.
• 4:59
  Monika: When I started in 2008, there were a lot of expats.
• 5:05
  Monika: They were my friends, so, you know, friends come to support you.
• 5:09
  Monika: And some of them, they already knew constellations.
• 5:12
  Monika: I just learnt it.
• 5:14
  Monika: I was so fascinated by this work.
• 5:17
  Monika: So it was like half-half.
• 5:18
  Monika: Half of the participants were expats, half of them were, uh, local people from Malaysia, and that's how it started.
• 5:27
  Monika: And now it's maybe one or two expatriates.
• 5:32
  Monika: Some of them, they are passing by, they are traveling through Malaysia and Thailand, and they are looking for constellations, and they find us, they find me.
• 5:41
  Monika: Um, but yeah, I'm working mostly with, with Asian people, and it's really fascinating.
• 5:49
  Monika: So-
• 5:49
  Tracy: Yeah… Monika: yeah, I, I think, you connected to the cultures here.
• 5:57
  Tracy: There is not one culture, many cultures.
• 5:59
  Tracy: Mm. Reminds me a little bit of Switzerland where they are also like, you know, four languages, four different, um, cultures and, yeah, very, very interesting.
• 6:11
  Tracy: Very interesting to work with people
• 6:13
  Monika: here.
• 6:13
  Tracy: What would you say, what would you say is the difference or-
• 6:16
  Monika: So for me, the biggest difference between Europe, where I grew up, and also I grew up in Poland, so that's also slightly different, but even y- you know, Europe in itself, I would say, the Central Europe perhaps, and Asian culture is that people here are very, very, very connected to their families.
• 6:38
  Monika: Like, in Europe, we are trying to get away from our parents when we are 18, 20, when we can be on our own.
• 6:48
  Monika: It's almost like that urge to be ourselves, to be that individual.
• 6:55
  Monika: And in Asia, the closeness is there.
• 6:58
  Monika: It's like people don't leave home until they get married, for example.
• 7:04
  Monika: And there is also this feeling of obligation, duty to look after the parents, to stay very connected.
• 7:15
  Monika: I mean, you know, it's not like everyone is like this, and also not everyone in Europe wants to get detached.
• 7:22
  Monika: Mm-hmm.
• 7:22
  Monika: But it's… Yeah, if I would- Mm… generalize it, this is how I would see it.
• 7:28
  Monika: Mm-hmm.
• 7:28
  Monika: And what I see that the new generations, like the people in 30s, even 40s, sometimes they get tired of it.
• 7:37
  Monika: So I feel that there is this longing to have a little bit more freedom for themselves.
• 7:44
  Monika: Yeah?
• 7:45
  Monika: Uh, no more to be caught up like, like this so strongly.
• 7:49
  Monika: And I'm thinking, "Wow, I wished I would have such family where I stay so close, uh, with everyone." So yeah, that's… I think that's the biggest difference, I would say.
• 8:01
  Monika: Mm-hmm.
• 8:01
  Monika: And the rest is the
• 8:03
  Tracy: same.
• 8:03
  Tracy: And I've, I've, I've noticed a lot of, um, a lot of… I've noticed a lot of families that had lost that culture are starting to sort of come back to having their families with them and- Mm-hmm … you know, a- and maybe it's part of- societal change or-
• 8:18
  Monika: Yeah.
• 8:19
  Monika: Yeah… Tracy: financial, you know, needs.
• 8:23
  Monika: Yeah.
• 8:23
  Monika: Yeah.
• 8:23
  Monika: I,
• 8:23
  Tracy: I was really grateful to have that in, in our house we were able to, to have my parents with us, so.
• 8:29
  Monika: Mm. Yeah.
• 8:31
  Tracy: Very.
• 8:31
  Monika: Well, me living abroad for now more than 30 years, I, I miss that.
• 8:37
  Monika: Yeah.
• 8:38
  Monika: I really miss that.
• 8:39
  Monika: My parents are no more around, but I really miss that closeness, that connection.
• 8:46
  Monika: So maybe it's also, you know, the older I get, right, the more it's calling me to reconnect with my, with my roots in person.
• 8:55
  Monika: So not just, you know, in constellation, so in meditation.
• 9:00
  Monika: But I notice that I need to go back to Poland more often to see the people, to feel the land.
• 9:08
  Monika: So it's, yeah, it's very interesting.
• 9:10
  Monika: It's- Mm … yeah.
• 9:11
  Monika: Yeah.
• 9:12
  Monika: Yeah.
• 9:12
  Monika: And maybe that's also the influence of the culture here because I've been living here for a while and observing how people really are with each other.
• 9:22
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 9:23
  Tracy: Beautiful to be able to see that through the, through the, through the cultural lens, isn't it?
• 9:28
  Monika: Yeah.
• 9:29
  Tracy: Okay.
• 9:29
  Tracy: So who, who was your first teacher, and then how did you get into constellations?
• 9:33
  Monika: So I got to constellations exactly through the therapy session for my daughter.
• 9:39
  Monika: She wasn't able to sleep for five years.
• 9:42
  Monika: She was crying during the night, waking up.
• 9:45
  Monika: No matter what I did didn't help, so we even went to a homo- homeopathic doctor, you know, trying to figure out what is the issue.
• 9:54
  Monika: It's, it cannot be that every night she's waking up four, five times, and I cannot do anything to calm her down.
• 10:02
  Monika: That was even the worst part.
• 10:05
  Monika: And during that session, we found out that she was carrying a lot of grief for my aunt, my mother's sister, who lost her baby during the pregnancy.
• 10:18
  Monika: So after releasing that, I started my journey, and few years later, this particular therapist came to visit us in Kuala Lumpur.
• 10:29
  Monika: Um, the session was in Switzerland, by the way.
• 10:32
  Monika: Mm-hmm.
• 10:32
  Monika: And, uh, and then we were already in Kuala Lumpur one year later, and she visited us, and she was telling me about family constellation at training that she was offering.
• 10:44
  Monika: And I am like, "What is this?" Because again, for me, that's, that was kinesiology session.
• 10:50
  Monika: And she said, "Do you remember your first session for your daughter?" And I'm like, "How can I just ever forget," right?
• 10:57
  Monika: Because this released in one session, and after two days the problem was gone in a way.
• 11:04
  Monika: And she said, "Uh, this is what it is. We just learned to do it in a group and also one-on-one in private session, but that's what we do." Mm-hmm.
• 11:13
  Monika: "We look at family dynamics." So her name is Mira Mass.
• 11:18
  Monika: She was… She is like the, I would say, the second generation after Bert Hellinger Did you say
• 11:26
  Tracy: Mira?
• 11:27
  Tracy: V-
• 11:28
  Monika: Mira.
• 11:28
  Monika: Mira Mm-hmm Mira, M-I-R-A Maas.
• 11:33
  Monika: She's now almost 90, still doing the work in Switzerland Oh, wow Um, so she and another teacher, her colleague, Ludger Franzon, they are both German.
• 11:46
  Monika: They were my first teachers where I went through three years program of really huge discovery.
• 11:54
  Monika: Uh, in those days, you know, you didn't have a lot of trainings, um, and it was all in person.
• 12:00
  Monika: So I was flying from Malaysia to Switzerland and Germany for three years, basically to explore myself and my family.
• 12:09
  Monika: It's a big- That's what happened… Tracy: it's a big undertaking.
• 12:12
  Monika: This was, I would call it crazy, and I would do it again.
• 12:18
  Tracy: So how far is it from Malaysia to Switzerland?
• 12:21
  Monika: Well, it's around 10,000 kilometers, around 12 hours flight.
• 12:25
  Tracy: Oh, yeah, that's quite a way then, isn't it?
• 12:27
  Tracy: It's like- Yeah … it's like London- It is … to Australia, isn't it?
• 12:30
  Monika: Mm. I think that's a little- I,
• 12:33
  Tracy: I only know- … bit further, but yeah.
• 12:33
  Tracy: Yeah … I only know that 'cause I saw that on a program the other night, 'cause I love watching those DNA programs.
• 12:38
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 12:39
  Tracy: And they were like, "Your brother lives 10,000 miles away in Australia." Yeah.
• 12:43
  Monika: Yeah.
• 12:43
  Tracy: And I was like, "Oh, that's what I wanted." Yeah.
• 12:46
  Monika: It is far.
• 12:47
  Monika: It is far.
• 12:48
  Monika: Yeah.
• 12:48
  Monika: It's something.
• 12:49
  Monika: Well, well, right Definitely.
• 12:50
  Monika: So, you know, when people come to me and they say, "Oh, you know, I have to fly from Singapore to Malaysia," which is, like, 45 minutes flight, this is so far, I'm like, "Okay." It's just a different, different perspective.
• 13:05
  Monika: Different perspective.
• 13:05
  Tracy: Yeah,
• 13:06
  Monika: yeah.
• 13:06
  Monika: Yeah.
• 13:07
  Monika: Yeah.
• 13:07
  Monika: But this was really… I always say, you know, this is the second-best decision that I, that I made in life.
• 13:15
  Monika: The first one was marrying my husband, and the second signing up for the training that I did never… I didn't know what it was.
• 13:23
  Monika: I really didn't.
• 13:24
  Monika: I just had this one experience that was not fully constellation And I felt, wow, if this could help my daughter, how much good can we do in the world when we know what it's all about?
• 13:38
  Monika: So that was, that was my only reason.
• 13:41
  Monika: So really- Not, not- … what was bothering you … even healing myself.
• 13:44
  Monika: Yeah.
• 13:44
  Monika: Mm-hmm.
• 13:44
  Monika: It was just how much good can we do in the world?
• 13:48
  Monika: You know, I'm coming from Poland, from this land, from the country of so many victims, and I always felt like a victim.
• 13:56
  Monika: Um, so I said, yeah, that's, that's the way.
• 14:00
  Monika: That's the way.
• 14:02
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 14:02
  Tracy: And I just
• 14:12
  Monika: love- Yeah … how,
• 14:15
  Tracy: how it really lights you up when you're talking about this.
• 14:17
  Tracy: It's so good.
• 14:17
  Tracy: Mm. Yeah.
• 14:18
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 14:18
  Tracy: That's true.
• 14:18
  Tracy: Still, after so many years- Yeah … I really, really love this work.
• 14:18
  Tracy: I love this work.
• 14:18
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 14:18
  Tracy: How do you describe it?
• 14:18
  Tracy: When you're talking, I… And I'm wondering, 'cause I'm curious too, is do you describe it differently to the locals than to the expats, or is it just there's just one elevator pitch?
• 14:28
  Monika: No.
• 14:29
  Monika: Yeah, no, I don't describe it differently.
• 14:32
  Monika: Uh, and, you know, I think, I don't know how you see it, Tracy, but I still find it a little bit difficult to describe after all those years.
• 14:42
  Monika: So I tell them, "Come and experience it as the observer, or just come open-minded and see what happens." But what I say is that, um, we are just not alone here in this world.
• 14:56
  Monika: We are connected consciously and also unconsciously with everyone who came in before us.
• 15:03
  Monika: And sometimes what happened before us, uh, stress, trauma, certain events, emotions were not processed by our ancestors, by our parents, and we may be carrying those things.
• 15:19
  Monika: Yeah, we may be experiencing them actually in our life without even knowing that we do it.
• 15:24
  Monika: Mm-hmm.
• 15:25
  Monika: So if you feel that there is something that could be improved in your life, if there is something that you are not totally fulfilled, yeah, why not just looking at your life through systemic lens, through the perspective of our ancestors and our history.
• 15:44
  Monika: Yeah, so.
• 15:45
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 15:46
  Tracy: That's a great description.
• 15:47
  Tracy: I love it.
• 15:48
  Tracy: Um, I, I asked you earlier about your mandala, and it's still catching my eye.
• 15:51
  Tracy: So- … I'd love to know the story around that.
• 15:54
  Tracy: So for those who aren't able to… who aren't watching this on YouTube, Monica has the most delicious looking mandala behind her- … with purples and blues and golds and cream and, uh, a little bit of black for highlighting and- Mm-hmm it's… Some mandalas are just don't… This one is just so powerful.
• 16:14
  Tracy: Can you tell me about that?
• 16:15
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 16:16
  Monika: Yeah.
• 16:17
  Monika: So I've been doing my work, I don't know how many years, 18 years or something, and then 11 years ago I decided I want to have my own space.
• 16:28
  Monika: So I had a little training room when I was running the workshops, then I went to another center to offer my work.
• 16:35
  Monika: And, you know, I came to a point when I thought, "Why not having my own space?" And then I found a space, and I also met the la- the lady who does these kind of mandalas.
• 16:49
  Monika: Her name is Minaki, is a Malaysian artist, who really channels them, and I fell in love with her work.
• 16:56
  Monika: I just fell in love with her work.
• 16:58
  Monika: She… Actually, first workshop in my space, in my center called Heart Sanctuary in Kuala Lumpur was her workshop.
• 17:08
  Monika: And I asked her to paint a mandala that is very personal to me, so it is based on my date of birth.
• 17:16
  Monika: Oh.
• 17:16
  Monika: That's why there are nine petals because- Yeah … you know, when I add my, my date of birth, we come to a number nine.
• 17:24
  Monika: And it should be a grounding mandala, like anchoring that space here.
• 17:31
  Monika: Mm. And that's how it came about.
• 17:33
  Monika: Wow.
• 17:33
  Monika: And these are my colors too.
• 17:35
  Monika: Mm. However, I didn't tell Faye what colors she should paint it.
• 17:38
  Monika: I just, you know, I just surrender.
• 17:40
  Monika: I said, "I need to have it very personal," so my date of birth, and it needs to be grounding.
• 17:47
  Monika: So she calls it Earth Mandala.
• 17:50
  Monika: Yeah.
• 17:50
  Monika: And depending on what person she paints it for, it looks different because the colors are different, the number of petals is different, et cetera, et cetera.
• 18:00
  Monika: That's how it came about.
• 18:01
  Monika: Wow.
• 18:01
  Monika: And it is my logo.
• 18:03
  Monika: I mean, the center logo as well.
• 18:05
  Monika: The middle part is actually the logo of Heart Sanctuary in Kuala Lumpur.
• 18:11
  Monika: And in September we will be celebrating 11 years
• 18:16
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 18:17
  Tracy: It's really, really stunning.
• 18:19
  Tracy: And a great story.
• 18:20
  Tracy: Great, great story behind it Yeah.
• 18:22
  Tracy: Thank
• 18:22
  Monika: you.
• 18:23
  Tracy: What has, um, your journey with constellations taught you about, about yourself?
• 18:29
  Monika: About myself.
• 18:30
  Monika: I think the biggest, yeah, the biggest learning, and it started actually in my training with Mira and Ludke.
• 18:39
  Monika: I still remember they were always telling me, "Have patience and trust." Because it was always my weakness to trust, and patience anyway.
• 18:51
  Monika: You know, I love to things to, to… things to be done yesterday.
• 18:56
  Monika: Not tomorrow, not today, but yesterday.
• 18:58
  Monika: So maybe that's why I was one hour earlier for, for our chat.
• 19:02
  Monika: I don't know.
• 19:04
  Monika: And this sticked with me, these two words that Mira really planted in my mind, sticked to me throughout my whole journey.
• 19:15
  Monika: Mm. So what I really learned is to trust more.
• 19:19
  Monika: Not necessary to trust more in people because, you know, sometimes I have to be honest, I really have trust issues with people.
• 19:28
  Monika: But I trust in myself.
• 19:29
  Monika: Mm. So what I noticed, especially the past few years, I've been brought to other countries, to Thailand, to Singapore.
• 19:39
  Monika: Singapore I've been going already 10 years ago.
• 19:42
  Monika: Indonesia, in China.
• 19:45
  Monika: I've been to so many countries here around Southeast Asia spreading the word, you know, in a, in a little way.
• 19:53
  Monika: In a little way.
• 19:55
  Monika: Yeah.
• 19:55
  Monika: But it's like I can see that just trusting the field and trusting myself enough that I can do it even though I'm not from this culture, I do not have the background that some people have, but I would, you know, I would say I have a very open heart, I can do that.
• 20:15
  Monika: And I can see how many things when we trust fall into place.
• 20:20
  Monika: Mm. So I would say really trusting the field, trusting the universe, trusting myself, that has been exponential growth for me since, since I started.
• 20:31
  Monika: Yeah.
• 20:32
  Tracy: Oh, yeah.
• 20:32
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 20:33
  Tracy: I, I resonate with that.
• 20:35
  Tracy: And I say to my students, they say, "How do I…?" And I, and I say, "Trust." Yeah.
• 20:39
  Monika: Yeah.
• 20:40
  Monika: Yeah.
• 20:40
  Monika: Exactly.
• 20:41
  Monika: Exactly.
• 20:41
  Tracy: I… And f- and that was a big thing on my journey, too.
• 20:45
  Monika: Um,
• 20:46
  Tracy: you know, and I guess it comes with different wounds, right?
• 20:48
  Tracy: And you said for you, you felt, had felt in your earlier years had felt like a victim and, and then there's all that lineage behind you.
• 20:56
  Tracy: So it's really learning to trust, isn't it, when you've got
• 20:59
  Monika: all that- Absolutely.
• 21:00
  Monika: Absolutely.
• 21:01
  Monika: Okay.
• 21:01
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 21:01
  Monika: Yeah.
• 21:02
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 21:02
  Monika: And I couldn't, I really couldn't trust as a child either.
• 21:05
  Monika: So, you know, we will, we could go into what happened, et cetera.
• 21:09
  Monika: So it is, when you ask me this question, that's the biggest, that's the biggest shift, and also that's what I learned about myself, and it's beautiful because I can really say we can learn it.
• 21:22
  Monika: So, you know, if we couldn't trust in the past, it doesn't mean that this is set in stone.
• 21:27
  Monika: Absolutely not.
• 21:28
  Monika: Mm. And I think constellation, for me, that's foundation of every other healing work, of every other even, you know, w- work or, uh, practicing presence.
• 21:42
  Monika: That's, that's not negotiable for me.
• 21:45
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 21:46
  Tracy: Yes, otherwise you're kind of gonna be on a higher ledge, you know, unconsciously, aren't you?
• 21:50
  Monika: Yeah.
• 21:51
  Tracy: Do your children attend con- your workshops?
• 21:53
  Tracy: Have they or have they attended your workshops, or what?
• 21:57
  Monika: Who?
• 21:57
  Monika: Pardon
• 21:58
  Tracy: me.
• 21:58
  Tracy: Your children.
• 21:59
  Monika: Yes.
• 21:59
  Monika: So my daughter, yes.
• 22:01
  Monika: She even learned.
• 22:02
  Monika: She was attending the course.
• 22:05
  Monika: And my son, no, he didn't.
• 22:07
  Monika: So he's more believing in science and science only, or NLP that is science backed up, so he didn't.
• 22:17
  Monika: But yeah, my daughter is, is really totally total believer in this work because it was also her, you know, who brought me on this, on this path.
• 22:28
  Monika: Of course, unconsciously.
• 22:29
  Monika: Mm. But she was the catalyst that I'm actually doing what I'm doing.
• 22:35
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 22:35
  Tracy: So is she practicing as well?
• 22:38
  Monika: She's not, but you know, she's a teacher, so she's using what she learned, um, in- Wonderful her work and in her life.
• 22:45
  Monika: Wonderful.
• 22:45
  Monika: And of course, she looks at people from a very, very different perspective than, you know, like 10, 15 years ago.
• 22:53
  Monika: Absolutely.
• 22:54
  Monika: Yeah.
• 22:54
  Tracy: I al- I always say, you know, if… imagine if the teachers could s- then see their students and they see-
• 23:00
  Monika: Yep… Tracy: they can unders- have stands behind them maybe, you know?
• 23:05
  Monika: Like- Yeah.
• 23:05
  Monika: Yeah … deeper compassion.
• 23:07
  Monika: Um, and just having that systemic lens, lens- Yeah … I think really- Yeah … just changes the way we, we, uh, we move in the world, doesn't it?
• 23:16
  Monika: Yeah.
• 23:17
  Monika: I agree.
• 23:17
  Monika: I still remember reading the book, uh, I don't know now, uh, what's, what's her name.
• 23:23
  Monika: I think you probably know that book, You Belong to Us.
• 23:27
  Monika: I think it's Mariana, Mariana Grinch, if I'm not mistaken, and she was a teacher.
• 23:32
  Monika: She wrote a book how she worked with children in the school in the, I think, '80s and '90s in Germany.
• 23:40
  Monika: She's constellator as well, yes, and she, you know, she used that work to, to work a lot, especially with children, with the refugees who were… who didn't speak German.
• 23:54
  Monika: They came to the school, you know, and, uh, I dunno.
• 23:58
  Monika: Th- this, this book really opened my heart as well to see how fast we can help children to grow- To, to connect with their resources.
• 24:10
  Monika: And, um, yeah, so there is even a book about it written by a teacher and constellator.
• 24:16
  Monika: Um-
• 24:17
  Tracy: Oh,
• 24:17
  Monika: well I'm gonna look that one up.
• 24:18
  Monika: Yeah.
• 24:18
  Monika: It- It
• 24:19
  Tracy: sounds great.
• 24:19
  Monika: Yeah.
• 24:20
  Monika: I, I think it's Margaret, um, Grange, but yeah, yeah.
• 24:25
  Monika: You Belong to Us, or You Are One of Us, I think, yeah.
• 24:29
  Tracy: Margaret?
• 24:30
  Monika: Yeah.
• 24:31
  Monika: I can check later.
• 24:32
  Monika: I can let you know.
• 24:34
  Tracy: So I've written Mariana there.
• 24:35
  Tracy: Don't know where I got that from.
• 24:37
  Monika: Or maybe Mariana Grange.
• 24:38
  Monika: You, you might be right Maybe m- it's Mariana Grich
• 24:43
  Tracy: I'll put them both down here.
• 24:45
  Monika: Yeah.
• 24:46
  Monika: Maybe it's Mariana.
• 24:47
  Monika: Yeah.
• 24:47
  Monika: If, if it's Mariana.
• 24:48
  Monika: I actually met her… You know, I met her two years ago in Portugal.
• 24:51
  Monika: Must be Mariana.
• 24:52
  Monika: You are right.
• 24:53
  Monika: You are right.
• 24:54
  Monika: Yeah.
• 24:55
  Tracy: Wow.
• 24:56
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 24:56
  Monika: Yeah, there are so many amazing people, you know?
• 24:59
  Monika: N- now it's like all the names get confused a little bit.
• 25:03
  Monika: Confusing, you're right.
• 25:04
  Monika: You
• 25:04
  Tracy: are.
• 25:04
  Tracy: Aren't there so many amazing people?
• 25:06
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 25:06
  Tracy: So on that subject, do you have a f- any favorite facilitators that you've learnt from or that you've witnessed and-
• 25:13
  Monika: I think there are many.
• 25:15
  Monika: I, I have experienced really many facilitators.
• 25:18
  Monika: Also thanks to COVID, you know, when everything went online.
• 25:23
  Monika: So I really love how Shavasti works.
• 25:26
  Monika: He's also coming to Kuala Lumpur in one month.
• 25:29
  Monika: I like his precision.
• 25:31
  Monika: I like how he uses just few words, the language of the soul.
• 25:36
  Monika: That's what I really love.
• 25:38
  Monika: I love Stephan Hausner as well, how he does the work.
• 25:43
  Monika: Um, I've done a lot of work with Emily and Dan from US.
• 25:47
  Monika: Yeah.
• 25:47
  Monika: I'm sure you know them.
• 25:49
  Tracy: Yes, I've done quite a bit too.
• 25:50
  Tracy: They came to New Zealand a few times.
• 25:52
  Monika: Oh, they came to New Zealand even?
• 25:54
  Monika: Yeah, exactly.
• 25:55
  Monika: So I'm… Yeah, I got to know those facilitators because I was supposed to go to Australian intensive in 2020.
• 26:02
  Monika: Mm. Already packed, literally waiting for my flight in two days, and this is when Australia closed.
• 26:10
  Monika: But because of course everything went online, you know, we get access to those amazing facilitator I never heard about.
• 26:17
  Monika: And I love as well how Bill Mannle works too.
• 26:21
  Monika: He was in Kuala Lumpur.
• 26:23
  Monika: I met him in Portugal.
• 26:24
  Monika: There are many, many.
• 26:26
  Monika: I… You know, probably the whole list.
• 26:28
  Monika: Yeah.
• 26:29
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 26:30
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 26:30
  Tracy: I think that's when- And- I think w- I met you around that time, wasn't it?
• 26:34
  Tracy: Around… 'Cause we all kind of went online.
• 26:36
  Monika: Online, exactly.
• 26:37
  Monika: Yeah.
• 26:38
  Monika: In that Austral- yeah, intensive.
• 26:40
  Monika: That's, that's where we met online.
• 26:41
  Monika: Yeah.
• 26:42
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 26:42
  Monika: Not yet in person.
• 26:44
  Monika: Not yet.
• 26:44
  Monika: So I'm actually looking at the dates, you know, for next year for New Zealand.
• 26:48
  Monika: This would be really awesome.
• 26:50
  Monika: Who knows?
• 26:51
  Monika: Who knows?
• 26:51
  Monika: You know- I've been only one time to New Zealand, so I would love to go again.
• 26:56
  Tracy: It would be lovely.
• 26:57
  Tracy: We'd love to have you.
• 26:57
  Monika: Yeah.
• 26:58
  Monika: Yeah.
• 26:58
  Monika: Let's see.
• 27:00
  Tracy: It'd be
• 27:01
  Monika: wonderful.
• 27:01
  Monika: Yeah.
• 27:01
  Monika: Ah, okay.
• 27:01
  Monika: But what I love, Tracy, is really to see all the facilitators doing the work.
• 27:07
  Monika: Mm. It's like no matter… So that's my opinion.
• 27:11
  Monika: No matter how long I've been doing this work, every person has something very unique Very, very unique.
• 27:19
  Monika: And it doesn't mean that I or we have to resonate with everything, but just really picking… Sometimes it's just picking one particular sentence- Mm … that stays with me, and this is what I can offer in my sessions.
• 27:33
  Monika: This is what I can offer in my courses with giving credit to that person.
• 27:38
  Monika: I just find it so beautiful.
• 27:41
  Monika: And, um, yeah, so, so it's good that we are connected.
• 27:45
  Monika: It's really wonderful that we can, even now we can connect through internet.
• 27:49
  Monika: That's the positive- Mm … part about it, and we can learn from each other.
• 27:54
  Monika: Yeah.
• 27:54
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 27:55
  Tracy: Yeah, absolutely.
• 27:56
  Tracy: Absolutely.
• 27:57
  Tracy: And, um, were you working online before COVID, or had- how did you learn to, um-
• 28:03
  Monika: I did.
• 28:04
  Monika: I… But I very seldom.
• 28:07
  Monika: It was for people who I know in Europe, so they wanted a session- And, um, and I did it.
• 28:16
  Monika: I remember I was working on Skype before, but really just few.
• 28:24
  Monika: And I had to, in a way, teach myself how to do it.
• 28:27
  Monika: I didn't know.
• 28:27
  Monika: Right.
• 28:28
  Monika: You know, I've never seen anyone working online, and I was only working with th- with figurines, so I did only one-on-one sessions.
• 28:37
  Monika: And when, when we went all online in 2020, I attended Jack Blackwell session.
• 28:45
  Monika: Mm. So I still remember this was my first session online in a group, and I attended because I wanted to see how he does it, how, how it's being done.
• 28:58
  Monika: And I thought, "Hmm, is it really working?" And I was one of the first representatives, and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, this is working.
• 29:05
  Monika: This is amazing." So that's when I started doing group onlines too.
• 29:11
  Monika: Um, and I think it's… In the beginning, it- I found it not so easy because we literally see just one part of the body.
• 29:21
  Monika: Of course, when people stand, we see more, but then it's a little bit further.
• 29:25
  Monika: So, you know, Tracy, we need to observe the micro-movements- Yeah … and what's happening to the, to the body language.
• 29:33
  Monika: So it was a little bit challenging, in my opinion.
• 29:37
  Monika: But I love it.
• 29:38
  Monika: I love it, and I started doing that during that time, and really with amazing results for clients.
• 29:47
  Monika: Yeah.
• 29:48
  Monika: And but I still, you know, prefer to do it in person if I'm very honest.
• 29:53
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 29:53
  Monika: Yeah.
• 29:54
  Monika: Yeah.
• 29:54
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 29:55
  Tracy: I, I think I had a little bit of an advantage 'cause I had a number of techniques to do it online.
• 30:00
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 30:00
  Tracy: So suddenly, you know, people's anxiety was through the roof, and- Yeah … uh, all of a sudden people really needed the work, uh-
• 30:07
  Monika: Yeah
• 30:08
  Tracy: at different levels.
• 30:08
  Tracy: So I had that skill already and, and I absolutely loved being able to- Mm-hmm … connect in- Yeah … with the wider community as well.
• 30:16
  Tracy: It was really-
• 30:16
  Monika: Yeah … really
• 30:17
  Tracy: helpful.
• 30:17
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 30:18
  Monika: That's really… This is, you know, when, when people are talking about COVID and how horrible it was, I, I have to keep my mouth shut because actually I'm so grateful to that time.
• 30:29
  Monika: I got to learn people like you all over the world, literally all over the world.
• 30:34
  Monika: So I was able to learn more.
• 30:36
  Monika: Mm. I was able to go out more and, you know, offer my sessions.
• 30:41
  Monika: And yeah, I, I find the connection is amazing, and just many, many people from our field are very, very loving and open and really easy to connect to.
• 30:53
  Monika: So that's… I, I'm very grateful for that time.
• 30:59
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 30:59
  Tracy: Are you teaching?
• 31:00
  Monika: Yeah, I do.
• 31:01
  Monika: So now I changed a little bit the way I teach.
• 31:06
  Monika: Before it was one year very, very intense course.
• 31:10
  Monika: Now I kind of separated it already before COVID, separated it into two.
• 31:16
  Monika: Foundation, and foundation is mostly the theory, the philosophy, and of course a lot of processes that come with it to get to know the theory, um, through the bodily experience.
• 31:30
  Monika: And that's for everyone.
• 31:32
  Monika: So that's really, you know, for people who are even curious about the systemic lens.
• 31:37
  Monika: Um, and this part was literally born because people told me, "Monika, I don't wanna be practitioner. I don't want to spend one year, uh, or even longer learning it. I just want to understand my life better." And that's what foundation does, I believe.
• 31:54
  Monika: And that's three months course.
• 31:57
  Monika: And after the foundation, those who really wanna become facilitators, who really wanna dive deep, this is where one year follows.
• 32:07
  Monika: And, um, yeah And this is where there's- Mm … a lot, a lot, a lot of practice.
• 32:13
  Monika: Yeah.
• 32:13
  Monika: So it's mostly doing, doing in a sense that we are facilitating constellations.
• 32:19
  Monika: We look at the trauma-informed facilitation.
• 32:24
  Monika: So yeah, I've been doing this- Yeah, there's so many layers, yeah … uh, for a while.
• 32:28
  Monika: Many layers, many layers.
• 32:29
  Monika: And, you know, yeah, the longer I do it, Tracy, I've done so many trainings, so many courses, I'm like one year, two years, three years is actually nothing.
• 32:38
  Monika: It's like- Mm you know, it's… Yeah, it's really practice.
• 32:43
  Monika: It's practice in presence, actually.
• 32:45
  Monika: Yeah.
• 32:45
  Tracy: Yeah, exactly.
• 32:46
  Tracy: The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know anything.
• 32:50
  Tracy: You know?
• 32:50
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 32:50
  Tracy: Like there's- Yeah … so much more to learn really, 'cause it's just-
• 32:52
  Monika: Yeah… Tracy: which to a newbie probably doesn't it just opens me up, I probably- Yeah … you know, like… Yeah.
• 33:02
  Monika: Yeah, but maybe exactly that we don't know so much keeps us in that place, you know, of staying grounded and humble.
• 33:10
  Monika: I don't know.
• 33:10
  Monika: That's how I feel.
• 33:13
  Monika: Mm. That's how I feel, yeah.
• 33:15
  Monika: Yeah.
• 33:15
  Monika: That's the reason I really appreciate, you know, the events that are being organized with different teachers, with different facilitators.
• 33:22
  Monika: It's like i- it is an infinite field in a way.
• 33:26
  Monika: It's, it's really infinite.
• 33:28
  Monika: And, uh, I see, you know, we are all evolving.
• 33:31
  Monika: The constellations are evolving, and my feeling is as long as the foundation stays the same, because I really feel the foundation is very solid… That's beautiful.
• 33:43
  Monika: That's beautiful.
• 33:44
  Monika: So
• 33:45
  Tracy: everyone- Yeah.
• 33:45
  Tracy: Yeah, yeah … yeah, can- I say that to my students, you know, I'll teach you the foundation-
• 33:49
  Monika: Yeah… Tracy: for you to… You know, and then in from your own modalities or, or- Yeah … that, that meld really well with it- … but these are the foundations.
• 34:00
  Monika: Yeah.
• 34:00
  Tracy: Mm.
• 34:01
  Monika: Yeah.
• 34:01
  Monika: Mm. Now I realize that even the one year, so my foundation and the one-year process, it's still a foundation.
• 34:11
  Monika: Mm. It's still a foundation.
• 34:13
  Monika: Um, yeah.
• 34:15
  Monika: Yeah.
• 34:15
  Monika: I, I feel… I remember, I think it was my teacher who told me back then when I first started, I was so afraid.
• 34:23
  Monika: I told her even after two years training, I said, "I will never do groups," you know?
• 34:29
  Monika: I'm afraid to stand in front of the group and speak.
• 34:32
  Monika: I will never do that.
• 34:33
  Monika: She was laughing.
• 34:34
  Monika: She said, "Yeah, yeah. Okay. Uh, you just still need to do the work on your mother, with your mother." So we know the group is the mother, right?
• 34:42
  Monika: S- so it did happen, but I remember she said something like that, "Monika, one day- You will be wearing the constellations.
• 34:53
  Monika: You will be walking and talking the constellations.
• 34:57
  Monika: You will be living it every single day.
• 35:00
  Monika: And this is when you know that you arrived.
• 35:04
  Monika: Not that you, you are done with learning, but that you really arrived, you know?
• 35:10
  Monika: And, and I feel that's true Again, I'm still learning.
• 35:15
  Monika: Every year, uh, I am in some kind of a course.
• 35:19
  Monika: And I'm not talking about workshops only, but courses.
• 35:22
  Monika: But there was a moment, and it took me a few years, when I had a feeling, wow, now I'm really walking my talk.
• 35:30
  Monika: You know?
• 35:30
  Monika: I'm like, I'm feeling it in every, in every moment in my life, in my daily life that-
• 35:37
  Tracy: Yeah… Monika: constellation is alive.
• 35:41
  Tracy: We are the constellations, and it's changing all the time.
• 35:44
  Tracy: All the time.
• 35:45
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 35:45
  Tracy: Mm. And the philosophy, yeah, I mean, I'm not perfect obviously, but, uh, it, it is my guiding light.
• 35:54
  Tracy: It is my guiding light in a way.
• 35:56
  Tracy: In this life.
• 35:57
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 35:58
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 35:58
  Tracy: What, what were you doing before you met constellations?
• 36:02
  Monika: Well, I, I was a mother.
• 36:05
  Monika: I was just, uh, yeah, I became mother when I was 25, so I didn't work.
• 36:10
  Monika: We came to Malaysia.
• 36:11
  Monika: I couldn't work here.
• 36:12
  Monika: I was not allowed to work.
• 36:14
  Monika: So I was taking care of my kids and- Mm … you know, driving them here and there, taking care of them.
• 36:21
  Monika: In Switzerland, I, I was working… Before I got married, I was working in a hotel.
• 36:27
  Monika: I was working in, uh, in travel agency in Poland.
• 36:32
  Monika: I, yeah, and then just part-time, um, I was working in Red Cross.
• 36:38
  Monika: So I always work with people.
• 36:40
  Monika: I always work with people.
• 36:42
  Monika: Yeah.
• 36:42
  Monika: Mm. Which is actually strange because I, I am the only child, living child, and actually I was always very shy.
• 36:53
  Monika: I was sitting in a corner observing everyone.
• 36:56
  Monika: Mm. And like, you know, not opening my mouth.
• 36:59
  Monika: So yeah.
• 37:01
  Monika: And then landed in tourism, working with people.
• 37:05
  Monika: Even I was a tour guide in Tunisia for three, three weeks once.
• 37:11
  Monika: And, and then I ended up here.
• 37:14
  Tracy: And I think sometimes that relational thing, you know, like when you're working with people and you're, um… I can look back at some of the jobs that I've had over the time and think, "Ah.
• 37:23
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 37:24
  Tracy: Actually, those skills- that I learned from that job have been really, really good for what I'm doing now." Mm.
• 37:29
  Monika: Yeah.
• 37:29
  Monika: Yeah.
• 37:30
  Monika: Mm. Yeah.
• 37:31
  Monika: There is for sure there is no coincidence.
• 37:33
  Monika: Mm.
• 37:33
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 37:34
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 37:35
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 37:36
  Tracy: Oh, that's fantastic.
• 37:38
  Tracy: Let's see, what else have we got here?
• 37:40
  Tracy: I might have to move this one a little bit closer and I can see.
• 37:43
  Tracy: I won't even look at that.
• 37:44
  Tracy: I'm just gonna ask the field.
• 37:46
  Tracy: Is there a collective theme in Malaysia?
• 37:50
  Tracy: You know, some countries have quite a theme, like migration or, um, patriarchy or like for New Zealand there's quite a, quite a large lot of suicidal- Um, tendencies here.
• 38:06
  Tracy: Yeah, I don't know.
• 38:07
  Tracy: Is there something, uh, something or some things that you-
• 38:10
  Monika: Yeah.
• 38:11
  Monika: So what I notice, it goes back, I feel, to the culture that we spoke about in the beginning.
• 38:17
  Monika: And also when we look at Malaysia, we have, we have actually, we have the original people of the land who are Orang Asli, especially here in West Malaysia.
• 38:30
  Monika: In East Malaysia, they are called differently.
• 38:33
  Monika: But these are really the original people from here.
• 38:36
  Monika: Uh, I think a little bit like Maoris in, in New Zealand.
• 38:40
  Monika: And then we have a lot of, of course, Malay people.
• 38:44
  Monika: Malaysia is also a Muslim country, very open, very, very open, very beautiful, and we have a lot of migration from China So really the, you know, the next, the next race would be Chinese and Indian or people from Sri Lanka.
• 39:05
  Monika: So what we see here that two, three, four generations ago, there was a lot of migration.
• 39:15
  Monika: And, um, it very often comes up in the, in the constellations, that migration, that leaving the land, leaving the families behind.
• 39:26
  Monika: Sometimes, you know, losing children on the, on the boat when, when the families wa- were coming here.
• 39:33
  Monika: So that's one part that can come up in constellations.
• 39:38
  Monika: Another part that is really almost in every family is the boys are… They have different status than the girls.
• 39:48
  Monika: Mm. I don't see it in Europe, for example, but here is very, very important.
• 39:53
  Monika: They are being treated differently, especially if it's the firstborn.
• 39:58
  Monika: So everybody wants, you know, the first boy, uh, as a child.
• 40:03
  Monika: And this creates often a lot of, um, a lot of issues between the siblings later in life.
• 40:13
  Monika: So that's… These are the things that I really see.
• 40:17
  Monika: They come, come up very often.
• 40:19
  Monika: And of course, that feeling of obligation that my parents sacrificed everything for me, so for example, that I can go and have a good education in Australia, UK, so I have to repay it back.
• 40:37
  Tracy: Mm.
• 40:37
  Monika: So that's a very, very common theme.
• 40:40
  Monika: Yeah?
• 40:41
  Monika: And, uh, in the beginning- Is it expected as a, as a common thing?
• 40:46
  Monika: It is expected.
• 40:46
  Monika: It is expected.
• 40:47
  Monika: It is even communicated.
• 40:49
  Monika: It is even communicated from, you know, from the small, from the, from the children.
• 40:55
  Monika: I mean, they hear it.
• 40:56
  Monika: "Can you see how much I sacrifice for you?
• 40:59
  Monika: I have to go and work three jobs so that you can have an education, you can have a food." So it's really… It's in s- in the blood, I would say.
• 41:10
  Monika: And in the beginning, I didn't know how to work with it because from constellation point of view, well, you can't pay back the parents.
• 41:20
  Monika: How can you repay the life?
• 41:22
  Monika: You know, how much time, how much money, how much anything you can give to the parents, and it will be balanced?
• 41:29
  Monika: It will not.
• 41:31
  Monika: So it was really challenging for me.
• 41:34
  Monika: Oh my gosh, what do I do?
• 41:36
  Monika: And yeah, I just sat with the client, with the clients later, and it's repeating until today, and just listened, you know, to the field and- We just both came to, to the insight we need to change the inner attitude towards it.
• 41:55
  Monika: We can still do, of course, we look after the parents, we do this, we do that, but with a different attitude.
• 42:02
  Monika: Not because we have to But because we want to, or because we can, or because we love our parents.
• 42:10
  Monika: And this is when I could see very, very big shift in people that the duty didn't ti- tire them.
• 42:18
  Monika: They, they were not tired.
• 42:21
  Monika: They were not exhausted anymore.
• 42:23
  Monika: Um, and i- it's just very different energy.
• 42:27
  Monika: They were helping the parents in the old age especially.
• 42:31
  Monika: Mm-hmm.
• 42:31
  Monika: Yeah.
• 42:32
  Monika: Mm-hmm.
• 42:32
  Monika: So that's something very different from what I know from my country or, you know.
• 42:38
  Monika: Yeah, I studied, I studied constellation in German, but I also went for Polish constellations.
• 42:44
  Monika: We don't have that, that issue usually.
• 42:48
  Monika: Yeah.
• 42:49
  Monika: So it's beautiful to see that it can be changed in a very positive way.
• 42:53
  Monika: Very positive way, yeah.
• 42:54
  Monika: It's…
• 42:55
  Tracy: Yeah, because there are those cultural aspects that, you know, we, we would be completely arrogant to think that-
• 43:03
  Monika: Absolutely.
• 43:04
  Tracy: Mm. … something that has… I mean, I know it has its roots in South Africa, but it was also brought through, um, by Bert Hellinger and by, by systems that have been mostly developed in the West.
• 43:18
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 43:19
  Tracy: So bringing-
• 43:19
  Monika: Yeah… Tracy: that, um, weaving that together.
• 43:23
  Monika: Mm-hmm.
• 43:24
  Tracy: That sounds like you're doing a beautiful job.
• 43:26
  Monika: Yeah, I hope so.
• 43:28
  Monika: Definitely it would be like what you say, arrogant, you know, to try to change it in a sense that that's the only right way to do, right?
• 43:37
  Monika: But it's fine.
• 43:37
  Monika: Arrogance would be the- It's just you need to just leave and… Yeah.
• 43:39
  Monika: Yeah.
• 43:40
  Monika: So how do you do it that it comes from the heart, no more from the obligation only?
• 43:45
  Monika: So yeah.
• 43:45
  Monika: It's different.
• 43:46
  Monika: It's different energy.
• 43:47
  Monika: And I'm just teaching a course right now in Bangkok, the first ever constellation course in Thailand, and there is even, even more different twist to it.
• 44:00
  Monika: I feel the Thai people are even closer to their families, you know, than what I experience here in Malaysia.
• 44:07
  Monika: And I can see shifts that the moment they start doing it really from that love and wanting instead of duty, something just shifts.
• 44:16
  Monika: Something just lifts off.
• 44:18
  Monika: And it's not that they are doing less.
• 44:21
  Monika: It's not that they're cutting themselves off, but it's just very, very different energy.
• 44:26
  Monika: So yeah, I'm, I'm really… I feel honored to see that in, in so many people.
• 44:32
  Monika: Yeah.
• 44:33
  Monika: Beautiful.
• 44:34
  Monika: Mm-hmm.
• 44:35
  Monika: And Tracy, only now, I mean, already few, few minutes ago, but you were looking at your wall, so I didn't wanna distract you.
• 44:42
  Monika: But only now I realize that your little, little stone hearts behind you, they actually create also one big heart.
• 44:51
  Monika: Yes.
• 44:52
  Tracy: See,
• 44:52
  Monika: I can just see- I didn't see that because you were really in the middle, so I thought, oh, yeah, nice hearts.
• 44:59
  Tracy: There you go.
• 45:01
  Monika: Awesome.
• 45:02
  Monika: Awesome.
• 45:03
  Monika: Yeah.
• 45:04
  Monika: Mm. Beautiful.
• 45:05
  Monika: I have… Now you see the mandala, but actually in my room where I offer my course and my workshop, there is a rainbow heart.
• 45:15
  Monika: I will just send it to you privately.
• 45:17
  Monika: This is always behind me when I sit, and it's really, like, yeah, it's just… I think it's a symbol of us connecting to the hearts more and more.
• 45:29
  Monika: Mm.
• 45:29
  Tracy: Absolutely.
• 45:30
  Tracy: So,
• 45:30
  Monika: yeah.
• 45:31
  Monika: Just-
• 45:31
  Tracy: Here I'm glowing, I'm glowing again.
• 45:33
  Monika: You are glowing.
• 45:34
  Monika: You are totally glowing now.
• 45:36
  Tracy: The sun's beaming in on one side and it looks like… Yeah.
• 45:40
  Monika: Now it's- Yeah … you are full glow.
• 45:42
  Monika: Yeah.
• 45:42
  Monika: You get the full glow.
• 45:43
  Monika: Awesome.
• 45:45
  Tracy: Oh, look, it's been a pleasure to chat with you, and we've only just touching the surface, but, uh, I'm gonna wrap it up here.
• 45:53
  Tracy: Is there anything… And if anyone wants to get in touch with you, let's start with that.
• 45:56
  Tracy: If anyone wants to get in touch with you, how would they find you?
• 45:59
  Monika: Well, I'm on Instagram and Facebook under Monica Wis.
• 46:04
  Monika: So you have my name, and also Heart Sanctuary Kuala Lumpur.
• 46:09
  Monika: So if you put in Heart Sanctuary, you will get me.
• 46:14
  Monika: Uh, and not just me, also some of my students who are offering this work here.
• 46:19
  Monika: And, um, and another one, yeah, my homepage is www.monicawis.com.
• 46:28
  Monika: So very, very simple.
• 46:29
  Monika: Very good.
• 46:30
  Monika: That's how you can find me.
• 46:31
  Monika: Yeah.
• 46:32
  Tracy: And is there anything that you would like to share before we, uh, we sign off?
• 46:37
  Monika: No, I think it's just, for me, my motto is always that healing is really returning to wholeness, returning to our hearts, and connecting with the love that we have in our hearts.
• 46:52
  Tracy: That is so beautiful.
• 46:53
  Tracy: Thank you.
• 46:54
  Monika: Thank you.
• 46:55
  Monika: Thank you so much, Tracey.
• 46:56
  Monika: Really pleasure talking to you.
• 46:59
  Monika: And looking forward to meet you in person.
• 47:02
  Tracy: Yeah,
• 47:02
  Monika: me too.
• 47:02
  Monika: Yeah, so I really hope I can make it.
• 47:05
  Monika: I need to check the dates again, and would be lovely to see you in New Zealand.
• 47:11
  Tracy: It will be a pleasure.
• 47:12
  Monika: Thank you.
• 47:13
  Tracy: Thank you for listening.
• 47:15
  Tracy: Head over to Instagram and tell me what's resonated for you with this episode.
• 47:20
  Tracy: You'll find me at tracey.cartwright, that's Tracey with no E,.cartwright.
• 47:26
  Tracy: And, or head over to my website, traceycartwright.co.nz, and receive a free audio with a gift from your ancestors.
• 47:36
  Tracy: So until next time, be kind to yourself and have fun doing it