Latest / Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections / Networking Unleashed: S1E40 An Interview with Richard Lowe and Michael A Forman, Public Speaker

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Networking Unleashed: S1E40 An Interview with Richard Lowe and Michael A Forman, Public Speaker · Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections

• 0:16
  Hello, and welcome to Networking Unleashed, building
• 0:20
  profitable connections. Welcome back to the show,
• 0:24
  folks. I'm your host, Michael Foreman, and you're
• 0:27
  listening to the podcast where networking is
• 0:29
  more than just awkward handshakes and bad coffee.
• 0:33
  It's an art and a talent. But here's the twist.
• 0:36
  It's an art and talent you can actually learn.
• 0:40
  Yes, even if you're the person hiding in the
• 0:42
  corner at every event, pretending to check emails.
• 0:47
  Networking isn't just a nice skill to have. It's
• 0:50
  a game changer. When you get good at it, you'll
• 0:53
  wonder why you didn't start sooner. More connections,
• 0:56
  more opportunities, more profits. It's like unlocking
• 1:00
  a cheat code for life. So whether you're the
• 1:03
  life of the party or the just let me stay at
• 1:05
  home and text type, we've got something for you.
• 1:09
  So stick around, and let's turn those awkward
• 1:11
  small talk moments into big wins. I have a guest
• 1:16
  today, and his name is Richard Lowe, and I will
• 1:21
  tell you a little briefly about his background,
• 1:23
  but then I will let Richard take it from there.
• 1:26
  Richard Lowe is a best -selling ghostwriter who
• 1:29
  helps professionals turn their expertise into
• 1:33
  powerful books that build credibility, attract
• 1:36
  opportunities, and leave a lasting legacy. Now,
• 1:40
  before I butcher it even more, Richard, how are
• 1:43
  you? Welcome to the show. Thank you for having
• 1:46
  me, and I feel very welcome. Good. Do you want
• 1:50
  to delve into your background a little bit more,
• 1:52
  or just... Yeah, I'll talk a little bit about
• 1:55
  myself. I am a ghostwriter. And yeah, I capture
• 2:01
  ghosts and I write on them. I got my start in
• 2:06
  writing when I was 17 years old. And my grandfather,
• 2:10
  nobody really talked to him. They considered
• 2:12
  him weird and a little curmudgeony. That means
• 2:14
  persnickety, difficult to get along with. But
• 2:17
  I wanted to know him. So I talked to him. I wound
• 2:20
  up writing a book for him. Now, it was never
• 2:22
  published, but it turns out that he was a hero.
• 2:25
  He was in the Yangtze River Patrol in China before
• 2:28
  World War II. He was captured on Corregidor.
• 2:30
  He was in the Bataan Death March with 10 ,000
• 2:33
  Americans marched across Bataan, and a lot of
• 2:36
  them died. And he was in a prisoner of war camp
• 2:38
  for four years. Now, I listened to him, wrote
• 2:42
  his book, and then decided he can be as difficult
• 2:45
  to be with as he wants to be here in the right.
• 2:49
  Had huge respect for him after that. They gave
• 2:53
  me the writing bug because I got to learn about
• 2:56
  somebody just through the act of interviewing
• 2:58
  them and writing them. Unfortunately, I had to
• 3:02
  put it on the shelf because I had to leave home.
• 3:04
  It was not really a choice. I got a job, became
• 3:08
  a VP of a company, and then a VP again, and then
• 3:11
  the director of computer operations at Trader
• 3:13
  Joe's. And I had a family, had to deal with that,
• 3:16
  a wife who was very sick. Your stepson, all the
• 3:19
  usual things, church that you accumulate over
• 3:23
  life. And I didn't really have the time to write
• 3:26
  or so I thought. I wrote a little bit at work,
• 3:28
  did some columns, did some articles, started
• 3:31
  on a book 15 times. You know how it goes. And
• 3:35
  then I said, wow, I am tired of this gig. I don't
• 3:39
  have a wife right now. She passed away. I don't
• 3:42
  have, I have some money lined up. So why don't
• 3:45
  I go do what I want to do? And what I want to
• 3:47
  do is write. So I left my job, moved to Florida,
• 3:52
  said goodbye to all my friends, which is a whole
• 3:54
  story in itself because I was a photographer
• 3:56
  and had 1 ,500 dancers and models and supermodels
• 4:01
  as friends. I said all goodbye. We had through
• 4:03
  a huge party on my birthday, hundreds of women
• 4:07
  there, which was interesting. I drove across
• 4:10
  the United States with my belly dancer friend,
• 4:12
  or excuse me, my Indian Barthantham dancer friend.
• 4:16
  She wouldn't want to be called a belly dancer.
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  That's a classical Indian dancer. We drove across
• 4:22
  the United States and had a bunch of grand adventures.
• 4:24
  It was fun. And then I settled down in Florida
• 4:27
  and became a writer. And I started writing LinkedIn
• 4:31
  profiles. And then I wrote. a lot of books and
• 4:34
  things. I wrote 60 books of my own. I wrote coloring
• 4:37
  books, puzzle books. I was just experimenting,
• 4:39
  lots of other books, a couple of bestsellers,
• 4:42
  and decided to go into ghostwriting. And that's
• 4:47
  where I am now. I've been ghostwriting now for
• 4:49
  11 years. I've written 52 books for other people.
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  My name is not on them. Sometimes it's in the
• 4:54
  acknowledgement. Some of them you probably have
• 4:57
  read or may have heard of. One of them is a science
• 5:00
  fiction book for a rock star, pretty famous one.
• 5:02
  Can't say his name, unfortunately. The good side
• 5:06
  is I get paid for it and he gets the glory. So
• 5:09
  there you go. So you transitioned from advertising
• 5:15
  to becoming a bestselling author and premium
• 5:18
  ghostwriter. What was the biggest challenge in
• 5:22
  making that shift and how did networking play
• 5:25
  a role in your success? One small change there.
• 5:28
  I transitioned from tech to being a ghostwriter.
• 5:31
  Okay. Wasn't an advertiser, but that's okay.
• 5:34
  Networking, especially now, plays a huge role
• 5:38
  because how do I find clients? I joined networking
• 5:42
  groups. reach out to people. I formed quite a
• 5:45
  big network. I have my own podcast where I network
• 5:48
  with people and get them on there. And then we
• 5:51
  become networking buddies, so to speak, sometimes.
• 5:54
  And networking is interesting. I tend to be introverted
• 5:58
  and shy in the past. You got to get over that
• 6:01
  real fast when you're a solopreneur. If you're
• 6:03
  shy, forget it. It ain't going to work. You have
• 6:06
  to put yourself out there. You have to get capital.
• 6:08
  You have to talk to people. And then you wind
• 6:11
  up networking with people and you find somebody
• 6:12
  who knows somebody who knows somebody who knows
• 6:14
  somebody. And finally, you got to find somebody
• 6:15
  who has what you need, business or a vendor or
• 6:18
  something like that. I found my marketing vendor
• 6:22
  through networking and he is awesome. He does
• 6:25
  all my marketing stuff. Just couldn't be happier
• 6:28
  with him after going through like 15 other marketing
• 6:31
  groups and finally found a good one. Good. So
• 6:35
  what lessons from your background helped you
• 6:38
  build connections and grow your brand as a ghostwriter?
• 6:43
  Put yourself out there. That's something I learned
• 6:47
  really fast. My first books came across because
• 6:52
  I knew a couple people, and they knew me, and
• 6:55
  I met them. It was more chance, happenstance
• 6:57
  is the word, than anything. But after I went
• 7:00
  through those, I had to put myself out there.
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  I wasn't looking for the low end, barely surviving
• 7:06
  ghostwriting gigs. I was going for the high end.
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  And when you're going for the high end, you got
• 7:12
  to meet people. To meet a rock star, you got
• 7:14
  to meet somebody who knows their PR agent, who
• 7:15
  knows some, you can't just talk to the rock star.
• 7:18
  You want to do a celebrity, it's the same thing,
• 7:20
  only harder. It can be difficult. I still haven't
• 7:23
  figured out how to get through one of the influencers
• 7:24
  on TikTok because they seem to have a lot of
• 7:26
  barriers because I'd love to do some of their
• 7:29
  books. Okay. And some may not even be interested.
• 7:33
  in writing a book, but some may. You never know.
• 7:37
  That's the key to networking is you never know
• 7:39
  what's at the other end of the string. You're
• 7:41
  basically pulling these strings and you're pulling
• 7:43
  them and find, okay, there's somebody there I
• 7:45
  can talk to. Good, nice guy, but I can't do business
• 7:48
  with him. We'll stay in contact, pull these strings.
• 7:51
  And then this guy that you talked to three years
• 7:53
  ago comes back and says, hey, I just realized
• 7:56
  I want whatever you're selling. But you've ghosted
• 8:01
  me for three years. I don't understand. That's
• 8:03
  networking. That's how networking works. You're
• 8:09
  dealing with people, but the people you're not
• 8:12
  dealing with just the people you're dealing with
• 8:14
  their networks and their network of people. And
• 8:17
  you never know who's going to come back to you
• 8:19
  and say, you know what? I spoke to you three
• 8:22
  years ago and I need your stuff now. And even
• 8:25
  though they ghosted you in their mind, they spoke
• 8:29
  to you yesterday. Ghosted me, no pun intended.
• 8:33
  No pun intended. How has networking influenced
• 8:36
  your journey as a ghostwriter? And what did key
• 8:41
  relationships play in your success? One of the
• 8:46
  keys is people that I network with, they know
• 8:49
  people that I can do business with. So that's
• 8:51
  number one. Number two is those people become
• 8:54
  references. So I get testimonials from them.
• 8:57
  They talk good about me to other people. They
• 9:00
  refer people to me. It becomes link. You can
• 9:05
  use social media to find business. And that's
• 9:09
  passive. You're putting out ads. You're putting
• 9:10
  out this and you're waiting for people to come
• 9:12
  to you. When you're networking, you're active
• 9:15
  and you're going out there and you're finding
• 9:16
  people. And it is much more fulfilling. It's
• 9:20
  actually much more likely to get you business
• 9:23
  or whatever you're looking for. And it's more
• 9:27
  fun. Because you're meeting people. You're out
• 9:29
  there talking to people. Even for an introvert
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  and shy person, I'm not really shy anymore, but
• 9:34
  I am an introvert. It's much more fulfilling
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  because I get to reach out to people. Like I
• 9:38
  have my own podcast. Like I said, I get to reach
• 9:39
  out to people. I invite them to my podcast. We're
• 9:41
  talking stuff. And then we become buddies and
• 9:43
  we're friends for the rest of the time. It's
• 9:44
  very strange to me as an introvert for most of
• 9:48
  my life. It works well. And I go on stages and
• 9:53
  I speak about keynote or breakout sessions, or
• 9:57
  I even do workshops in corporations. And I say
• 10:00
  that you may be an introvert, but you have to
• 10:03
  become, you have to have extrovert, some extrovert
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  values or something else like that. Because if
• 10:10
  you're going to just stay within your own world,
• 10:13
  you're not going to do your company any good.
• 10:16
  So you have to get out there and you have to
• 10:18
  network. And networking, I believe, is the basis
• 10:21
  of all businesses. So hopefully that will work.
• 10:26
  What are the biggest misconceptions professionals
• 10:30
  have about branding and how can networking help
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  them refine their brands? A lot of people conflate
• 10:40
  branding with sales and marketing with sales.
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  Letting people know who you are and what you
• 10:49
  are, what you believe in and all that kind of
• 10:51
  stuff, what you sell, whatever. It's the appearance.
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  So my shirts are part of my brand. It shows that
• 10:58
  I'm a little casual and I'm going to create a
• 11:00
  book that's about you and it's going to be colorful
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  and have feeling. If I was in a suit that would
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  portray an entirely different brand, this is
• 11:08
  intentional. You'll find a lot of ghostwriters,
• 11:11
  they do similar things. brand to portray who
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  they are, or whether they're, if they're a mystery
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  ghostwriter, they're going to be dressed in some
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  kind of Mr. Like Holmesy kind of things, at least
• 11:22
  give that appeal. Maybe perhaps cozy mysteries
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  would generally be written by women and those
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  they would, they're going to show that brand.
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  So branding is not sales and it's not marketing.
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  It actually supersedes them both. If you don't
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  have a brand, it's hard to sell. And then guess
• 11:39
  what? People make it up for you. Yeah, you don't
• 11:44
  want that. You become their brand. And then again,
• 11:46
  you're passive again. When you go and you are
• 11:50
  driving and you see a billboard and you just
• 11:52
  see somebody's name and what they do, there's
• 11:56
  no contact information or anything. That's a
• 11:59
  form of branding because that's not for sales.
• 12:02
  That's just to keep you aware that they're in
• 12:05
  the business. So that's very good. What strategies
• 12:09
  have worked best for you? when you're building
• 12:12
  meaningful long -term relationships in the publishing
• 12:16
  and business world. Opening my mouth and reaching
• 12:20
  out and talking to them, no matter how scary
• 12:22
  it seems. Sometimes it can be very intimidating.
• 12:25
  I try and reach out to CEOs of big companies
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  and my mindset is they're never going to talk
• 12:31
  to me. I'm just a ghostwriter. I am just this.
• 12:34
  They're people. One of my... The person I want
• 12:38
  to contact is Bill Gates. He's done books and
• 12:40
  stuff, but I would love to just sit down and
• 12:43
  talk to him. I'd love to maybe write his book,
• 12:45
  another book for him, that fear takes over. Like,
• 12:49
  why would Bill Gates talk to me? But that's where
• 12:51
  your reputation comes in and your branding and
• 12:55
  everything else, because there's probably 10
• 12:58
  ,000 people that want to talk to Bill Gates.
• 13:02
  If you have the branding, if you have the background
• 13:04
  that he's looking for, then he'll speak to you.
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  And also the people who can recommend me. Yes.
• 13:12
  So that's the power of the network. You believe
• 13:16
  that every professional needs a book. Why do
• 13:19
  you think a book is such a powerful networking
• 13:21
  and branding tool? Let me give you a for instance.
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  A lot of people. A lot of people are leaving
• 13:28
  their jobs now, either voluntarily or involuntarily.
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  And a lot of them are becoming coaches because
• 13:32
  coaching is, in their minds, relatively easy
• 13:35
  to set up. They can just put out a shingle saying,
• 13:38
  I'm a coach. I can give you executive coaching.
• 13:40
  I was a CFO of this company and I can coach you
• 13:42
  on how to do that again. Sounds real simple.
• 13:44
  Problem is a lot of people are doing it. And
• 13:46
  then you've got what I call the snowflake and
• 13:48
  the blizzard problem. There are a thousand, thousand,
• 13:51
  thousand of those people out there and you're
• 13:53
  the snowflake. And I don't mean that in a derogatory
• 13:55
  term. I know that has other meanings. But how
• 13:58
  do you see that one snowflake in this blizzard
• 14:00
  of snowflakes? That's what a book does. It turns
• 14:03
  that snowflake red or green or blue so it just
• 14:05
  stands out. That's what a book does. If you look
• 14:08
  at the coaches who've actually made it big, virtually
• 14:12
  all of them have their own book. And if you look
• 14:16
  at a lot of people who get on TED Talks, people
• 14:19
  who get on the speaking circuit, people who actually...
• 14:23
  make it in that area, especially those that have
• 14:28
  to deal with other people, they have a book.
• 14:31
  That happens to be very true. There's a golden
• 14:35
  triangle, I'll call it, people that do what I
• 14:39
  do. I'm a public speaker. And if I'm a speaker
• 14:42
  and I wrote a book and I did a TED Talk, that's
• 14:46
  a golden triangle. So that's what we'll get.
• 14:49
  That's what gets me. the people that contact
• 14:53
  me. That's what makes them look at me and say,
• 14:55
  oh, you know what? He's got all of it. Let me
• 14:58
  call him and see what he's about. What advice
• 15:01
  would you give to professionals who work to use
• 15:04
  a book to enhance their credibility and open
• 15:07
  doors to new opportunities? Who want to have
• 15:12
  a book? Exactly. They need to, first of all,
• 15:17
  they need to find the right ghostwriter. A lot
• 15:19
  of them say, I could write it myself. I could
• 15:21
  use AI. First of all, the elephant in the room,
• 15:24
  AI. It's going to write garbage book. It's not
• 15:27
  going to have any feeling. It's not going to
• 15:29
  have any passion. It's not going to have your
• 15:30
  heart in it. It's going to be a book. It's going
• 15:32
  to be, excuse the term, a crappy book. But if
• 15:35
  that's what you want, if you're worried about
• 15:37
  money, it's a way to go. You could hire a low
• 15:40
  -end ghostwriter. You're going to have the same
• 15:42
  problem. They're not going to capture you. So
• 15:44
  go out there and interview. good ghostwriters,
• 15:48
  premium writers who are, they're going to cost
• 15:50
  you some money, but it's a one -time fee. If
• 15:53
  it's for your business, it's probably, I'm not
• 15:55
  an accountant, it's probably tax deductible.
• 15:57
  The government will fund half of it or part of
• 15:59
  it for you because it's tax deductible. So get
• 16:02
  that, find that ghostwriter that works for you.
• 16:05
  Now me, I'm a ghostwriter who listens. What I'm
• 16:07
  trying to do is get to the heart of the person,
• 16:09
  get the spirit and put that into the words, into
• 16:12
  the book so that it shines through in the book.
• 16:14
  And that's not an easy thing to do. Not a lot
• 16:16
  of ghostwriters can do that. That's what I do.
• 16:18
  Find one that you can work with. And the most
• 16:21
  important thing, find one that you have a good
• 16:24
  relationship with. Cost, that's a one -time fee.
• 16:28
  A ghostwriter is going to cost less than one
• 16:30
  of these newfangled electric cars. So that's
• 16:34
  the kind of cost we're looking at. What does
• 16:36
  a newfangled car cost? $60 ,000, $70 ,000? That's
• 16:38
  what a good ghostwriter is going to cost you
• 16:41
  for a good book. Pay that. It's a one -time fee.
• 16:45
  It's going to be a better investment than that
• 16:46
  new car. And the government's going to fund part
• 16:49
  of it. But more important is the relationship.
• 16:52
  You're going to be working with this guy or girl
• 16:55
  for quite a while. And if you don't have a good
• 16:58
  relationship, you're going to get a lousy book.
• 17:00
  And it's not, you're not going to be happy with
• 17:02
  it. And you're going to go back and forth on
• 17:03
  what I call revision hell. It goes back and forth
• 17:07
  and back and forth. Okay. How can writing a book
• 17:10
  create networking opportunities that might not
• 17:13
  exist otherwise? You want to get hold of somebody
• 17:17
  who's been unreachable so far. You just tell
• 17:20
  them, I wrote the book on your subject, or I
• 17:24
  wrote the book that you might be interested in.
• 17:25
  You give them the book, you sign it. You have
• 17:27
  a speaking engagement. You got your book. You
• 17:29
  sign it for everybody there. You have now created
• 17:32
  some buzz and your network's going to grow. I
• 17:35
  wind up giving away more copies of my book than
• 17:38
  I do selling because I do it as a loss leader.
• 17:42
  You're not going to sell a lot of copies of your
• 17:43
  book on Amazon. And that's not the point. The
• 17:46
  point is, is to use it as a networking tool or
• 17:48
  as a tool to bring you business or whatever you're
• 17:50
  looking for. Right. Very good. For someone just
• 17:54
  starting to build their network and personal
• 17:56
  brand, what are three steps they should take
• 17:59
  right now? Number one, take their box and throw
• 18:03
  it away. Everybody's got a box. I got a box.
• 18:07
  We've all got a box. We've got these boundaries.
• 18:08
  My boundary is I'm probably never going to talk
• 18:10
  to Bill Gates because he's way above my level.
• 18:12
  I need to get rid of that mindset. That's a box.
• 18:15
  So get rid of the box. The second step would
• 18:18
  be start putting yourself out there. If you're
• 18:20
  shy and you don't know how to speak, go to Toastmasters.
• 18:23
  You'll get rid of that shyness pretty quick.
• 18:26
  Toastmasters is a group where you speak a lot
• 18:29
  to people and they help you get rid of the ums
• 18:31
  and ahs and pauses and all kinds of things and
• 18:33
  make you more relatable. And they have lots of
• 18:37
  exercise. It's a lot of fun. And for an introvert
• 18:40
  like me, it was murder. It was grueling, but
• 18:46
  I got through it and I had a great time learning
• 18:48
  to talk to people. And the third one is get out
• 18:50
  there. Get out there on LinkedIn. Get out there
• 18:52
  on Facebook. Start introducing yourself to people.
• 18:54
  They might say, I hate you. Who cares? They're
• 18:57
  just one person. They might not want to talk
• 18:58
  to you. You get ghosted a lot. Some won't answer.
• 19:00
  Who cares? Somebody will. And somebody, you'll
• 19:04
  try a couple of conversations and then you'll
• 19:06
  realize this person might be able to help me
• 19:08
  or I might be able to help them. The key to networking
• 19:11
  is you have to help. before you get help. The
• 19:15
  more you help, the more help you get. And there's
• 19:18
  a ratio somewhere. I think it's three to one
• 19:20
  or something. You help three and you get one
• 19:22
  back kind of thing. But you have to, that is
• 19:24
  probably the key to good networking is you have
• 19:26
  to help. You can't just go out there and network
• 19:28
  because you want things. I mean, you can, but
• 19:31
  it's far more effective if you're helping people,
• 19:34
  which is why I started my own podcast because
• 19:36
  they get the podcast, they get little TikToks,
• 19:38
  I write a little bio, they get all this stuff
• 19:41
  from it for free. And what do I get? I get to
• 19:45
  meet somebody new and I get to find out all about
• 19:47
  them on a podcast. It's great. You're right.
• 19:50
  That's one thing that I speak about is that you
• 19:54
  have to have the mindset when you go to a networking
• 19:56
  event to give. You give and not receive. Because
• 20:00
  if you're looking to give, then everything is
• 20:03
  all right. Nobody looks at you like you're a
• 20:05
  phony. You're just looking to help everybody.
• 20:08
  And one line that I... usually say to people
• 20:13
  that I want to create that relationship with
• 20:16
  is, how do I make you more successful? How can
• 20:22
  I be a good referral source for you? And that
• 20:26
  usually starts a relationship and we get on and
• 20:29
  it all works out. What's one networking lesson
• 20:33
  that you wish you had learned earlier in your
• 20:36
  career? This is a big one. To network. I was
• 20:42
  super, super introverted. I was very shy, which
• 20:45
  is interesting because I was an exec. I was a
• 20:47
  C -level exec and a director of computer operations
• 20:50
  at Trader Joe's. And I couldn't talk to people
• 20:53
  except for my own team because I knew them. So
• 20:55
  if I didn't know you, I wouldn't talk to you.
• 20:57
  So when time came for the promotion to CIO level,
• 21:00
  nobody knew me. The leaders in the company didn't
• 21:05
  know who I was. They weren't going to give me
• 21:07
  that promotion. And they didn't. That's one reason
• 21:11
  why I left is I was stuck because I didn't network.
• 21:14
  I didn't network out of the company. I didn't
• 21:16
  work in the company because I was comfortable.
• 21:18
  That's probably actually the second lesson is
• 21:20
  don't get too comfortable in your job, but I
• 21:23
  was comfortable. I was happy, but I wasn't networking
• 21:26
  with anyone internal or external. And I grew
• 21:32
  out of that a lot. Okay. Okay. Why don't you
• 21:37
  give my listeners. One marketing tip of a ghostwriter
• 21:42
  that they can take away. And if they wanted to
• 21:46
  go into this, if they wanted to, what would they
• 21:50
  do starting today or tomorrow? Take a look at
• 21:56
  their business or whatever they're trying to
• 21:58
  do from the viewpoint of reaching out to people.
• 22:02
  Because you're dealing with people. You're not
• 22:04
  dealing with money machines on the other end
• 22:06
  of that. You're not dealing with an ATM machine.
• 22:08
  You're dealing with a person. You're not dealing
• 22:10
  with somebody who could cough up cash and buy
• 22:12
  your product. You're dealing with a person. And
• 22:14
  to make a business that has some legs, longevity,
• 22:17
  you need to treat these as people. So when you're
• 22:20
  networking, you're talking to real people. You're
• 22:22
  not talking to somebody who can give you a publisher
• 22:25
  or give you customers or something like that.
• 22:28
  You're talking to a person. And if you treat
• 22:30
  them like a person, then they will treat you
• 22:33
  like a person. And the biggest thing is start
• 22:36
  planning your business like that and your brand.
• 22:41
  So you want your brand to be relatable. You want
• 22:43
  your brand to be comfortable to people. You want
• 22:45
  your brand to show you something you're comfortable
• 22:48
  with, something that promotes whatever you're
• 22:50
  trying to promote and build a plan for your whole
• 22:55
  brand around that. Find an expert to help you,
• 22:58
  but be cautious. I went through. a dozen of them
• 23:01
  before I found a good one. So don't drop a lot
• 23:03
  of money into them, but find one you're comfortable
• 23:05
  with. And again, it's that relationship. It's
• 23:08
  always the relationship. You have to find somebody
• 23:11
  you can be in a relationship. If you're not comfortable
• 23:13
  with them, fire them and go on to the next one.
• 23:15
  You're not going to hurt their feelings. They'll
• 23:17
  go on to somebody else. And don't be afraid.
• 23:20
  And don't be afraid. Don't be afraid. Just go
• 23:24
  out and do it. Start doing it. They're not going
• 23:27
  to hurt you. And if they do, you can just cut
• 23:29
  them off, just stop. That's all you have to do.
• 23:32
  So Richard, so tell me, if any of my listeners
• 23:35
  wants to get hold of you, either to be coached,
• 23:39
  to be on your podcast, to start ghostwriting,
• 23:42
  do whatever, what's the best way for them to
• 23:44
  get hold of you? If they need white papers or
• 23:47
  case studies or a book, they could contact me
• 23:50
  at therightingking .com or ghostwriting .guru.
• 23:54
  I have two websites. My marketing person maintains
• 23:57
  one. That's who I am. So thewritingking .com.
• 24:01
  And if you want to talk, there's lots of places
• 24:03
  where you can set up an appointment. Set up an
• 24:05
  appointment and let's chat. If you have somebody
• 24:08
  who has something to say, contact me. We'll set
• 24:10
  up a time to talk and I'll put you on my podcast.
• 24:12
  And then we'll have a good time. Perfect. Okay,
• 24:16
  Richard, I can't thank you enough for coming
• 24:19
  on to the podcast. You gave us great insights.
• 24:23
  on what it's like to be a ghostwriter, what to
• 24:25
  do, what not to do. And I thank you very much
• 24:28
  for your time. I'm very happy to be here. Thank
• 24:31
  you for having me on. You're welcome. Well, hold
• 24:35
  on, folks. Don't go anywhere. Let me just read
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  to revvedupkids .org. That's R -E -V -V -E -D
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  -U -P -K -I -D -S .org. Well, that's a wrap,
• 25:54
  folks. A huge thank you to our special guests
• 25:57
  for sharing such incredible insights today. And
• 26:00
  of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing
• 26:04
  listeners, for tuning in and spending your time
• 26:07
  with us. Remember, networking isn't about being
• 26:11
  perfect. It's about being present. So take what
• 26:14
  you've learned today, get out there and make
• 26:16
  some meaningful connections. If you enjoyed this
• 26:19
  episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave us
• 26:22
  a review and share it with someone who could
• 26:25
  use a little networking inspiration. Let's keep
• 26:28
  the conversation going. You can find me on Apple,
• 26:32
  Spotify, YouTube or my website. Michael A. Foreman,
• 26:37
  remember, until next time, keep practicing, keep
• 26:41
  connecting, and keep building those relationships.
• 26:44
  This is Michael A. Foreman signing off. Take
• 26:47
  care and happy networking.