Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Chief Minister Natasha Fyles remains firm that the NT Government didn’t backflip on alcohol policy

Transcript

Chief Minister Natasha Fyles remains firm that the NT Government didn’t backflip on alcohol policy · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Now, the Northern Territory Government is preparing legislation to be
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: introduced when Parliament sits next week to reinstate alcohol bans
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: across the Northern Territory, preventing the sale of alcohol to
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: people living in town camps and remote communities. The Northern
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Territory Chief Minister made the announcement earlier in the week,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: following weeks of national coverage on the crime and alcohol
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: crisis engulfing Alice Springs. The Chief Minister, Natasha Files joins
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: me on the line right now, Good morning to you.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Good morning, Katie, Good morning listening.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Chief Minister. Up until Friday last week, you'd labeled blanket
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: alcohol bands race based policy. What changed your mind?
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: So, Katie, we as a government try and balance what
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: is a legal product. We believe that this legislation that
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: we will introduce is not going back to the stronger
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: futures type legislation. It does allow a clear process for
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: local decision making, but it highlights the complexity of alcohol policy,
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: acknowledging the legality of it, but the harm it causes
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: in our community.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: So you don't believe that this new policy is going
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: to be race based policy.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: So we have had people that are unhappy with the
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: announcement that we made earlier this week, and we believe
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: that it does, as I just said, highlight that complexity.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: But we've outlined a pathway where communities. The criticism has
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: been of us is not that the communities that have
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: signed in, but the communities that have said to us,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: we don't want to sign in. But we've outlined a
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: pathway where they have to develop a community alcohol plan.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: It has to have mechanisms if there is harm or
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: antisocial behavior or crime happening, and then that will go
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: to a vote with sixty percent of the community agreeing
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: to that.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Well, look, I think a lot of the criticism has
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: also been the way that this has been mishandled, and
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: the stats in this report handed down by Darrell Anderson
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: are shocking. Since twenty twenty one, Alice Springs has seen
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: a seventy nine point four percent increase in alcohol related assaults.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: There's been a ninety six point seven percent increase in
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: alcohol involved domestic violence related assaults in Alice Springs. Clinical
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: reports from the emergency department at the hospital have observed
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: an increase in the severity of harm being inflicted on
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: women since the ceisation of the Stronger Futures Act restrictions
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: and the report I think for so many people really
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: tells us what locals have been saying for quite some time,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: as well as Indigenous voices and community groups. Why did
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: it take the Northern Territory government so long to act?
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: So, Katie, We've put in place on multitudes of policies
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: and legislation. We continue to move in this space to
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: respond to the community's needs. We started to see from
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: our clinicians November December changes in the behavior. So we
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: had the severity of the domestic and family violence. But Katie,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: this is the complexity of what is a legal product.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: It costs the Northern Territory community two billion dollars a
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: year alcohol related harm. We put in place a mechanism
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: that provided for something when Stronger Futures ceased from that COMMONWEALTHCA.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Do you ignowledge now that that wasn't adequate enough? I mean,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: looking at these figures and looking at what's been handed
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: down in that report, you must, as a Northern Territories leader,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: acknowledge that that wasn't enough.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: To Katie, these issues are complex. They've developed over We
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: know that, but.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Do you acknowledge that the steps that you had taken
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: were not enough.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: So Katie, we put in place legislation when the Commonwealth
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: government walked away, we provided an option and we did
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: see communities opt in. But we've also got communities that have,
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: even since Monday, said they're not happy with the announcement.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: It's a legal product, why should they be targeted? And
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: so this is the complexity that is alcohol policy.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: But looking at those figures that have been handed down
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: in that report, I mean in Alice Springs, in addition
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: to the figures that I just read out, the number
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: of property offenses in a twelve month period reached a
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: new high according to that report, eighty two hundred and
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: twenty two offenses in the twelve months ending to November.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, what do you say to the people who
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: have been screaming out in Alice Springs? They've literally been
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: begging for help.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: So, Katie, these are complex issues. They're multifactorial. They developed
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: over decades of disadvantage and poverty, and we've tried to
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: invest in the services and we will continue to do So.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Do you acknowledge or do you do you though look
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: back now and think maybe we could have done things better.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: When the Stronger Futures legislation ended, we should have looked
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: at doing what we're drafting now with the legislation.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: So, Katie, when Stronger Futures was coming to an end
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: and we saw the Commonwealth that not continuing even though
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: they had failed territories by not approving any of the
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: community developed our coal management plans, we put in place
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: a legislative provision. A large number of communities reverted back
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: to being dry. There's ninety six remote communities in the territory, Katie,
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: that's referred to. Eighty eight went back to being dry.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: We put in place legislation if people wanted to remain
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: dry whilst they developed our whole management.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: So at this point in time, you don't accept really
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: any fault for what has happened in the last six months.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: You are purely holy and solely placing that blame on
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: the federal government of the day, even though now the
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: legislation that's being introduced to Parliament this week could have
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: been introduced when the Stronger Futures legislation ceased.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: So, Katie, I take responsibility for the territory each and
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: every day for a range of things that happened. But
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: what I'm saying is this is the complexity of our
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: core policy and no government has done more around our
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: cohole policy, remembering it's illegal.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Proces, Chief Minister. Honestly, I think though listening to those
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: stats and reading through those stats and what's gone on
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: in the last six months, you know, you can say
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: that no government has done more. But these statistics are
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: absolutely terrible. You know, what's going on has been absolutely terrible.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: And I think you know what a lot of people
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: are wondering if you've got any regrets whatsoever, Katie.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: This is a complex issue. Of course it impacts Territorians,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: but it has impacted Territorians for decade. And what I'm
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: saying is alcohol is illegal product. Businesses are allowed to
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: sell it, and we try and put in place mechanisms
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: to stop the products from getting to people that cause
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: harm in our community, as well as providing comprehensive harm
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: minimization and rehabilitation for those that are addicted. But this
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: is a complex issue and we need to make sure
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: that we treat it in its entirety for the whole
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: community fairly, not on a race based policy.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: And so no regrets, no regrets, whatsoever. No apologies to
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: the people of Alice Springs or those in the outlying
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: communities who've experienced what they've experienced in the last six months.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Teddy, We've been anti social behavior in crime for years,
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: for decades. Of course I apologize and accept that. But
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: what I'm saying to your listeners is it is a
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: very difficult policy space. We put in place mechanisms that
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: we believed would work, and they were there for six months,
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: and we did see some communities opted in, but we've
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: also got communities that are pretty annoyed that they're now
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: being forced to be dry community purely based on their
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: address when Aboriginal people live.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: At what point, though, do you go, do you know what?
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: As the chief Minister, I've got to step up here,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: and we've got women and children being assaulted, We've got
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: domestic violence rates at an all time high. You've got
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: property crime at rates that have never been seen before
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: in Alice Springs. At what point, you know, do you
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: actually go? All right? We might have to make decisions
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: that people don't like, but we're gonna have to make
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: those decisions. Because up until Friday, you were still digging
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: your heels in on this So.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Katie, this is the complexity of disadvantage and poverty, and
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: that's why you've seen US invest in housing, education, life
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: changing programs, but also short term measures to support the community.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: And we're agile in this space. We look at the
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: factors that are driving it and we will adapt our policies.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: We had legislation for six months that allowed communities stopped in.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: No one is questioning who we spoke to in those communities.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: It has just been around the community.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: Well, who did you speak to? Let's go to that point,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: who did you consult with to make this decision, because
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: that was a point that was asked at the press
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: conference on Monday. It was also something that we asked
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: of you last time you're in the studio, and you
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: wouldn't say who you'd consulted with.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: So we consulted with every community that was impacted with
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: this legislation.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Katie.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: There was hundreds of consultations, whether that was information being provided,
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: whether that was meetings that I was participating in or
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: department officials. So there is a number of communities that
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: have said they don't want to opt into being dry.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: They were certainly saying that they felt that it was
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: picking on them because of their race and their address.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: And so why didn't you then listen to the likes
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: of the police. Why didn't you listen or the Police Association,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: the likes of AMSAD, the likes of Central Australian Aboriginal Congress.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: You know, you had Marion Scrimjaw, you had others saying
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: this needs to change. What you know, why weren't you
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: listening to them.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Katie, We meet with those stakeholders, we listened to them, naturally,
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Congress and am SAND the same. They're a health body
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: and they naturally would align themselves around alcohol policy, making
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: sure that the health and they's long term health impacts
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: of alcohol. It's not just these shorter term measures. And
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: we see that feedback come through when we develop policy.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: But you've also got on the other side licensees and
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: industry who say it's a legal product, we should be
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: allowed to sell it. And this is the complexity. We
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: put in place restrictions. We're criticized for that, but if
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: you know, we don't have measures, we get criticized for that.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Did you rely on the Attorney General Chancey Paig as
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: your you know, as the person that was doing that consultation.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: No, Katie. So the consultation was run through the department
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: as Chief Minister Office of Aboriginal Affairs. We also have
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: in each of the regions regional directors who oversaw the
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: consultation within their community. So we engage with remote communities
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: each and every day around a myriad of issues. We've
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: also driven local decision making, so that's how the consultation
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: was run.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: And did you consult with people yourself, Katie?
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: I've met with traditional owners who have looked me in
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: the eye women, because this is often the question. Or
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: did you speak to the right people who said, Natasha,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: we work hard, we have a house, why can't we
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: have a takeaway drink just like you lot are other territories.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: I'm very mindful. I know that you've told us that
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: you are or we were told earlier that you are
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: going to have to leave. So I do want to
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: just rush through some questions. Secondary supply, how's that going
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: to be combat combated with this new legislation?
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: So, Katie's secondary supply is always a considerable issue. We
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: strengthened when we reformed the NT Liquor Act. We tripled
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: the penalties for the secondary supply. It's around giving both
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: licensing and police the tools to act in that space.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: But it is illegal to on sell alcohol and we
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: make sure that we have those penalties in place as
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: well as mechanisms to stop us.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: So is there anything new that's going to combat secondary
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: supply with the legislation that's being introduced on Monday or Tuesday?
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: So not specifically to this legislation, but secondary supply is
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: something that is always focused on by both police and
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: licensing and they do things Katie, such as they look
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: at a outlets volume of sale versus their sales and
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: they then see any anomalies and try and act upon that.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: They then also run covit operations to tackle perhaps individuals
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: that are on selling.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, we know that there has been two hundred and
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: fifty million dollars in ounce for support services in the region.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: That's in addition to forty eight million dollars announced earlier
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: last year. That funding is going to go towards improved
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: community safety and cohesion, job creation, better services fas D,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: as well as investing in families and on country learning.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: There's been a lot of discussion about the number of
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: service providers operating in Ala Springs and if those services
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: are actually delivering. How are you going to ensure that
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: this three hundred odd million dollars is going to be
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: spent in appropriate ways and that those service providers are
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: going to meet KPIs absolutely Katie.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: So that is some of the feedback that we get
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: that we sign contractional arrangements with non government organizations and
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: feel heartfelt about them that they've got a great brand name,
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: but they have to be delivering what the community needs.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Now that could be the time of the day, for example,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: there's no point having these services from nine to five.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: They need to be when they best target who they're supporting.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: So we are not going out there and just cutting.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: What we're doing is looking at every service that's being
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: delivered because we have Northern Territory Government delivering services, the
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Commonwealth government as well as the shires and local councils.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: So we need to make sure that they're operating in
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: cohesion and that's one of Durell's tasks as that Central
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Australian Coordinator.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, so more than thirty NGOs, is there going to
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: be an like, there's going to be an audit. How
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: are you going to work out you know, what is
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: working and is their funding going to be cut if
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: they're not doing the job that they've been set to do.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: So, as I just said, we're not stepping out just
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: to cut people's funding, but we need to make sure
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: it's delivering what the community needs. So we've got territory
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: families that are working well into the night till three am.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: Are they getting the backup services and support that they need?
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: So it's around those mechanisms when we hit school holidays
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: or weekends, getting the services to support young people. So
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: it is complex, but having that role based in Central Australia,
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Miss Anderson will be able to look at what's being
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: delivered and some service providers will absolutely adapt and work
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: with us. Some services will stay the same because they're
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: operating well. But we also need to make sure that
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: we're agile and the delivery of services that might not
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: be meeting the best needs of the community.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: JEE finister. This new legislation that's being introduced next week,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: it is going to cover the whole of the Northern Territory,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: isn't it correct?
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Catiues There's been much focus around Central Australia, but this
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: legislation is territory wide and I gain point to that figure.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Of the ninety six communities of size so large and
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: small that we refer to, eighty eight went back to
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: being dry. So there's only a very small number, but
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: it's around those homelands, those outstations, so they'll all become
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: dry until they develop that community alcohol plan. It has
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: to be ticked off by Director of Licensing. We don't
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: want to be in a situation where community come together,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: they develop a plan, it's not a good plan, but
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: they put it to a vote and it gets up.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: It has to have mechanis. If we start to see,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: as I said before, any untowards statistics, what are the
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: mechanisms to control alcohol?
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Chief Finister a couple of really quick ones. Yipper and
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: your school are they going to be getting funding for
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: their boarding house?
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: So, Katie Ypper in your school has seen the Sunset
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: School funded by the territory government. I know that they've
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: had requests around a boarding house. The funding that's coming
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: from the Commonwealth is some of it's one off infrastructure
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: and some's recurrent. We need to look at what the
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: methodology behind a boarding house would be, but we're certainly
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: very open to that.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Is there any additional funding going towards law and order,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: i e. Police.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: So Katie, in terms of police, we have a separate
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: agreement and I think that's important for your listeners to understand.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: We've invested significantly in housing, but we have a separate
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: agreement around remote area services. This is additional funding coming
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: into Central Australia. It doesn't impact upon those health reforms,
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: the education reform agreements and police.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Chief Finister, I know you need to go, but I
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: want to finish with a question that's come through from
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: one of our listeners, Ollie from Palm o. He says, Katie,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: can you ask the Chief since she's been Alcohol Policy Minister,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Health Minister since twenty sixteen, four years as the Attorney
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: General until twenty twenty, overseeing the Treaty Commission until twenty twenty,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: which has now been ignored and disbanded, will the Chief
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Minister consider resigning if nothing improves or are you satisfied
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: with your legacy so far?
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: So, Katie, I've never been the minister responsible for treaty,
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: just to point that out. In terms of alcohol policy,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: we saw a significant decrease in the harm and the
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: statistics related to alcohol. COVID was an interrupter We have
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: been working since then around what we need to do
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: with both alcohol policy, police and licensing, because we know
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: that it needs a multi department response to tackling these
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: issues and will continue to do so.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: And so will you consider resigning if nothing improves or
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: are you satisfied with your legacy so far?
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Katie? We've worked enormously hard in this area and will
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: continue to do.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: So, so you are satisfied with your legacy so far, Katie.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: In terms of alcohol policy health, we have worked enormously hard.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: It is complex, it is across a primary healthcare system
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: and acute system. Alcohol is an addiction, but remembering it's
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: a legal product, and so we try and find that
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: balance and we'll continue to be agile with our policy.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Chief Sinister, we appreciate your time. I know we've gone over.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much for speaking with us this morning.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: Take care,