Latest / All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting / 132. What your money anxiety is actually about — Jessica Moorehouse

Transcript

132. What your money anxiety is actually about — Jessica Moorehouse · All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting

• 0:00
  Welcome back to the All figured Out podcast.
• 0:02
  My name is Andrea Barr. Thank you so much for joining me
• 0:05
  again this week. Today we are talking about
• 0:08
  something that touches every part of our lives and it's
• 0:11
  something that nobody really teaches us how to handle well.
• 0:15
  And that is money. Not just how to make it or
• 0:18
  budget it, but how to think about money, how to feel safe
• 0:21
  around it and how to not pass our money baggage down to our
• 0:24
  kids like some sort of emotional hammy down.
• 0:27
  I had the absolute pleasure of being joined by Jessica
• 0:31
  Moorhouse, who is basically your go to voice of calm and clarity
• 0:36
  and just rational thinking when it comes to money.
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  She is also Canadian, which I love.
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  She's a financial counselor, best selling author of
• 0:44
  Everything But Money and she's the host of the More Money
• 0:47
  podcast, which has over 4,000,000 downloads now.
• 0:50
  I actually was introduced to Jessica Moorhouse through my air
• 0:54
  pods or no my my earphones back in the day.
• 0:57
  It was about 7 or 8 years ago, I was making a big transition
• 1:01
  after I quit advertising and I was trying to decide what to do
• 1:04
  next. So I was freelancing at one
• 1:06
  point, I worked with a running room and I was going to go back
• 1:10
  to school as well. So I was feeling tight on money
• 1:13
  and I really wanted to find somebody who was young and hip
• 1:17
  and had some cool thoughts about money, who could teach me a bit
• 1:20
  about budgeting, who could help me in and just make me feel
• 1:23
  better about my money mindset. And so I think I took to Google
• 1:26
  and I found Jessica Moorhouse, I found the More Money podcast and
• 1:30
  it really changed the game me. I remember becoming so obsessed
• 1:34
  with her podcast and listening to it to and from on the train,
• 1:38
  walking to work and not obsessed in a way where I became hyper
• 1:42
  focused on money, but more so just I felt more empowered by
• 1:46
  listening to her. So when I saw that she had a
• 1:48
  book coming out, everything but money I, I jumped on the
• 1:53
  opportunity to reach out and see if she would come on the podcast
• 1:55
  to talk to this beautiful audience who was probably going
• 1:58
  through one of the most expensive phases of their lives.
• 2:01
  And that is parenting. So this conversation is
• 2:04
  definitely for parents who are doing OK on paper, but still
• 2:07
  maybe feel like they're drowning in discussions around finances,
• 2:11
  the stresses of finances, and just feeling like I want to
• 2:15
  leave money for my kids, but I don't even know what money
• 2:17
  means, just all this stuff. So we are going to talk about
• 2:21
  your money past and how to heal it, your money present and which
• 2:26
  is more about how to stop spiraling in this kind of
• 2:29
  expensive season and your future.
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  How to raise money resilient kids without passing your
• 2:34
  baggage down to them. How to talk to your kids about
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  money, if and when you should do, if you should be giving them
• 2:40
  an allowance. Jessica has big thoughts on that
• 2:43
  and just how we can just take the air out of the topic of
• 2:49
  money. I am so incredibly excited to
• 2:52
  bring you this conversation. I'm so proud of it.
• 2:54
  I'm so thankful to Jessica for coming on and sharing over an
• 2:58
  hour of her time to talk about a topic she knows best and loves.
• 3:02
  So Jessica Morehouse, thank you so much for coming on, and I
• 3:05
  know you're all going to enjoy. This is all figured out.
• 3:13
  I'm Andrea Barr, I'm a career coach for parents, a mom of two,
• 3:16
  and I absolutely believe that you can continue to grow
• 3:19
  personally and professionally while protecting family time.
• 3:25
  We're about to figure out this work, life and parenting stuff
• 3:28
  out together. Jessica Moorhouse, thank you so
• 3:38
  much for joining me on the all figured.
• 3:40
  Out podcast thanks for having. Me, I got to say, I'm a little
• 3:43
  starstruck here. You're laughing as if it's not
• 3:47
  true, but it is like. I'm like, I don't know, I read,
• 3:51
  I don't know what you gotta be starstruck about, but I'm
• 3:53
  flattered. I oht when we I say this the
• 3:59
  story I never go on threats ever.
• 4:01
  Like I think I've been on there twice for some.
• 4:03
  Reason I'm obsessed. Good.
• 4:07
  Nice. It's good.
• 4:08
  It depends on what threads you're on.
• 4:10
  I'm somehow got onto a lot of like author threads and there's
• 4:13
  some juicy drama that I love. Oh, yeah.
• 4:15
  There's a whole they. Oh yeah, it's, it's amazing.
• 4:18
  And then there's lots of great threads of like, you know, maybe
• 4:20
  you know, you're the city you live in or just other kind of
• 4:23
  interest that you have. No, I I love because I stopped
• 4:25
  using Twitter like years ago. So it was nice to have a space
• 4:28
  again to save my thoughts and things like that.
• 4:31
  OK, OK. OK.
• 4:32
  Well, I happen to go on it. Maybe I'll go on it more now.
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  You happen to go on it and I happen to see you pop up.
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  I don't even know if I'm following you on there, even
• 4:40
  though I have been a follower of you for a long time.
• 4:42
  And you said something to the effect of, hey, I'm promoting my
• 4:45
  book and what podcast should I be on?
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  And I was like, this is my chance.
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  And I wrote you an honest message saying you were pivotal
• 4:53
  in my career in financial journey.
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  And I would be honored if you could come on my podcast and
• 4:59
  share your wisdom with my my audience of parents who are in a
• 5:03
  financial thick of it, if we can say that.
• 5:06
  And you said, yeah, let's do it. And you have been so
• 5:08
  professional and kind and just normal to just coordinate with.
• 5:12
  And I just so appreciate you taking the time to speak with
• 5:15
  myself and this audience because I think parents need a financial
• 5:20
  hug, you know? Definitely.
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  You know, it's funny about that. I, you know, once the blue moon,
• 5:24
  I'll be like, hey, yeah, you know, put the call out.
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  What should I be? You know, what should I be on or
• 5:28
  whatever like that? And I'm totally fine with people
• 5:31
  like pitching their own shows. But the thing I think that's
• 5:33
  different is you actually followed up like so many, it's a
• 5:36
  while that so many people are like, oh, on mine.
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  And I'm like, if you really want me, you got to actually like DM
• 5:42
  me or find my e-mail, which isn't hard to find.
• 5:45
  It's on my website and actually follow up.
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  But no one did besides you. So you went.
• 5:51
  Oh my gosh, isn't that funny? Cause you see stuff like that
• 5:54
  and you're like, I was like, oh, she's gonna get a million
• 5:56
  messages. Like, who am I to me, You know,
• 5:58
  like, talk about the mindset. Your shot, you never know.
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  Yeah, I've gotten some guests, some pretty good guests on my
• 6:04
  show. Is I just followed up or just
• 6:06
  sent them an e-mail and they're like, yeah.
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  But most people just are like, they just don't do the follow
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  through. You gotta follow.
• 6:12
  Through the fortunes in the follow up.
• 6:15
  Yeah. Oh my gosh, who's your favorite?
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  Who's the like biggest favorite guest?
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  They or not favorite? Who's the biggest guest you've
• 6:20
  ever gotten? The biggest guest I'd say at one
• 6:24
  point, this is year, this is going back probably a long time
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  ago now, maybe 5 or 6 years, but one that I really, you know,
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  like I saw him on Twitter. I followed him for years when he
• 6:35
  had a blog and he was just on there and I think he was doing a
• 6:40
  similar call out or something like that.
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  I'm like, I'd love for you to be on my show.
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  I was like, sure. And so I did follow up.
• 6:44
  I did the DM, I found his e-mail or whatever, and it was Perez
• 6:47
  Hilton who? No, it wasn't.
• 6:49
  Yeah, controversial, but I used to follow him, you know, back in
• 6:52
  like the the early 2000s kind of thing, when he was doing all
• 6:55
  that kind of stuff. And he said, yeah, and it was an
• 6:57
  OK interview. He was lovely.
• 7:00
  He was fine. But, you know, it's just like,
• 7:03
  oh, you just got to try. And so now because I've had my
• 7:06
  show for about 10 years, it is a little bit easier for me to get
• 7:11
  guests. Like, honestly, a lot of them
• 7:13
  just come into my inbox. A lot of publishing houses,
• 7:15
  especially if they have an author that has a book coming
• 7:17
  out. So I'd say one that was, I was a
• 7:20
  bit starstruck and this was last fall was Mary from Selling
• 7:24
  Sunset. I don't know if you ever watched
• 7:25
  that show, but it's a real estate reality show that I've
• 7:29
  been watching since it started like five years ago.
• 7:31
  And so I know way too much about her.
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  I'm like, Oh my God, yes, I want her on my show.
• 7:36
  And it was, you know, more of a memoir, but there was so much
• 7:40
  money talk in her book. She was a single mom for a
• 7:44
  number of years and struggled financially.
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  And so to see where she is today, where she's, like, doing
• 7:48
  very well financially, has a very successful career, like,
• 7:51
  oh, yeah, we could definitely talk about this show.
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  So that was for me, that was a really exciting moment.
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  That's so cool. But you know what?
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  There's something about like interviewing or speaking with
• 7:59
  people, yes, like Paris Hilton, who were totally just out there
• 8:03
  and maybe seemingly random. But like the fact that, you
• 8:05
  know, something about them, I just think make think makes for
• 8:08
  a more fruitful discussion. Like, yeah, you and I like you.
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  You don't necessarily have a business surrounding parents.
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  You're not a parent yourself. But it's like, but I have
• 8:17
  followed you for so long. I trust your advice.
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  I want to put you in front of my audience.
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  And I know that regardless, we can just have a great
• 8:23
  conversation because I feel like I know you.
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  I've listened to your podcast for so long.
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  And I get that a lot. Like it's been actually really
• 8:29
  trippy going on. Like I've gone to seven
• 8:32
  different cities and hosted events to promote my book and to
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  have people that have been following me for a number of
• 8:38
  years, like sometimes some of them from the early blogging
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  years. That was like, I started my blog
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  in 2011. I'm like, that is a long time
• 8:43
  ago. And it's so cool for people
• 8:46
  like, Oh my God, you sound just like you sound on your podcast
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  or Oh my gosh, it's crazy to meet you in person.
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  I'm like, I am just a regular person, but I'm very flattered
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  because it means that, you know, all of the work I've put in
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  these past 13 whatever years is actually impacting somebody and
• 9:01
  they feel like there is a connection.
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  And I want there to be a connection because that's really
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  what got me into this world that I never expected to be my
• 9:09
  career. I started as a Blogger as a
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  hobby and started a podcast when I was still working full time as
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  a way to connect with people because I didn't want to feel
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  alone either talking about money.
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  And that's that's why I started out as a Blogger is I want to
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  share my story, but I want to connect with other bloggers who
• 9:26
  were also sharing their very personal story.
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  And at that time, it really was a personal thing.
• 9:30
  People were sharing their their income, how they budgeted, you
• 9:34
  know, some of their financial failures, things like that.
• 9:37
  And there was no way, there was no way to monetize that.
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  You did it and you spend all these hours and wrote all these
• 9:43
  blog posts just to make a connection with other readers
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  and get those comments in the comment back and go to their
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  blogs and comments and stuff like that.
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  Just to have that connection. Because it really was.
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  That was the only purpose for for The thing is to kind of
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  create the sense of online community.
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  Yeah. Whoa, Can you imagine?
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  Like, that's pretty cool. I think that's, I think that's
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  why those people that like yourself who got into the
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  blogging in those days, I think why you're all so successful is
• 10:07
  because there was no way to monetize it.
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  There weren't influencers. And so I think you guys were all
• 10:12
  coming at it from a super genuine place.
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  Yeah, and we would call out people who clearly weren't
• 10:18
  because slowly there were kind of ways where you could make
• 10:20
  money more like just freelance writing for other websites or
• 10:23
  blogs or, you know, you can have ads on your website, but you
• 10:27
  really wouldn't make that much money.
• 10:28
  But it was we had at that time, we really did kind of self
• 10:32
  police a little bit in just that if you said numbers, you need to
• 10:36
  back it up or, you know, if you just had to be authentic and
• 10:39
  real and honest. And.
• 10:41
  And that was even there was a time where lots of bloggers
• 10:44
  started out anonymously. And then there'd be the exciting
• 10:48
  moment of the big reveal. It's like, oh, this is who they
• 10:51
  are. This is what their name is, a
• 10:52
  real name. That's how they look like.
• 10:53
  And that was always really exciting.
• 10:54
  But yeah, the landscape is completely different now.
• 10:57
  It's wild to see because even though it's been a long time,
• 11:00
  like, yeah, I started back in 2011, it doesn't, it's not like
• 11:04
  that. Like in the grand scheme of
• 11:05
  things, it's not that long. It's only 2025, you know what I
• 11:08
  mean? And so it is wild to see how
• 11:11
  where I started to now people are, I'm seeing this all the
• 11:15
  time on on Instagram especially. People will start an Instagram
• 11:19
  account and then within a year start making so much money they
• 11:22
  can quit their job and just do that as an influencer.
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  Like that did not exist. That wasn't a thing.
• 11:26
  Influencer wasn't everything, content creator wasn't even a,
• 11:30
  you know, title. So it's it's wild to see how
• 11:33
  things have gone. It's and there's good, bad
• 11:36
  things. That's a whole other
• 11:37
  conversation. But it's interesting anyway, and
• 11:39
  it's. Interesting, Super interesting
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  yearbook. Everything but money is
• 11:43
  incredible. I've I'm just devouring it and
• 11:48
  I'm going to be honest, there was a moment where I was like,
• 11:49
  is this book for me? And I think you do such a good
• 11:52
  job at the very beginning of just squashing any of that.
• 11:57
  And I was just listening from different people's positions and
• 12:00
  hats. I was just thinking about my
• 12:01
  audience too, to be honest. Let's, you know, preparing for
• 12:03
  this interview. And I was like, oh, Nope, Yep,
• 12:05
  good for that person. Yep, good for that.
• 12:07
  I'm just send this to my mom, OK, and send this to my sister.
• 12:09
  Like it was incredible. Like I was just really.
• 12:11
  You were just like. Why did you think that?
• 12:13
  Was it because you had a certain expectation of what the book was
• 12:15
  and you're like, oh, this is a bit different?
• 12:17
  Or was it like, hey, we're going to get Rod real and vulnerable.
• 12:20
  Are you OK with that? And you're like, oh.
• 12:22
  God, Jessica. Yes.
• 12:25
  And both. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 12:27
  You know the moment where I was like, I'm going to be honest.
• 12:32
  You were so honest here, but I'm gonna be honest too.
• 12:34
  I did grow up with money. Interesting.
• 12:38
  And I have shame around that. And so I felt very seen when you
• 12:41
  talked about that, when you talked about like the people who
• 12:43
  are it's shame, shame, shame. It's all shame.
• 12:47
  Like it doesn't matter where you come from.
• 12:49
  And I was like, so who am I? I don't know who am I to?
• 12:53
  I have my own money stories though, like I don't know how to
• 12:57
  earn it because I've had it and I and I have it or you know, Oh
• 13:00
  my God, it's like. Absolutely crazy things
• 13:03
  everytime we just, you know, we have a lot of feelings about
• 13:09
  people who have, you know, grow up with less or grow up with
• 13:12
  more. The people who grow up with less
• 13:14
  look to the people who grow up with more, with a sense of like,
• 13:17
  if only I had that, then I'd be much happier and have a much
• 13:20
  better life. And then a lot of people who
• 13:22
  grew up with more, they may feel guilt for the position that
• 13:25
  they're in, but they don't even feel like they have a space to
• 13:28
  acknowledge that or say that because no one cares when you
• 13:31
  have money. They're like, you know, you, Oh,
• 13:33
  you know, you privileged person, how would you?
• 13:35
  How dare you? But The thing is, and like I
• 13:38
  talked about in the book is we all have our own stories and our
• 13:42
  own feelings and they're all valid.
• 13:44
  And the problem I often see in a lot of like online forums, like,
• 13:48
  you know, Instagram comments or Reddit and things like that, or
• 13:51
  the blog comments back in the days, there's so much judgment
• 13:54
  towards other people and their money when really we should just
• 13:56
  be eyes on your own paper and just focus on you and have a lot
• 14:00
  more empathy than we do for for other people's situations.
• 14:04
  I mean, there's just so much judgment, but all of our
• 14:06
  feelings are valid and the only way that any of us can defeat or
• 14:10
  heal rather is if we come from a place of understanding
• 14:15
  ourselves. But let letting us have empathy
• 14:19
  towards ourselves and others. And most people have a hard time
• 14:23
  doing that. Like I explained in my book, I
• 14:25
  had a hard time kind of having empathy because, you know, I
• 14:30
  came up from a certain background.
• 14:31
  And so I couldn't, you know, an empathy is really just looking
• 14:35
  through life or the world through someone else's eyes and
• 14:39
  understanding that people have different life experiences and
• 14:42
  they're not better or worse, they just are.
• 14:45
  But often we are, I think, told by a greater society or just
• 14:49
  whatever the mood of the moment is that this is good, this is
• 14:51
  bad. And if you, you, yeah, you come
• 14:54
  from money, then you shouldn't complain because you shouldn't,
• 14:55
  you shouldn't have any problems because you have money, which is
• 14:57
  the dominant problem out there. But well, that's not true.
• 15:01
  A lot of problems come with money.
• 15:03
  And so, you know, if the the story that I shared, that one
• 15:07
  woman who grew up in extreme wealth, you know her because
• 15:11
  they're great grandfather. I can't remember how far the the
• 15:13
  story goes, but I think it was a great grandfather, came from
• 15:17
  nothing, started a really successful business, grew
• 15:19
  exponentially. And then there is all this
• 15:22
  generational wealth that kind of flowed through and was
• 15:24
  inherited. And it wasn't simple.
• 15:28
  It was there's a lot of complexities and there's a lot
• 15:30
  of hurt feelings. There's a lot of family strife.
• 15:33
  There is very complicated. And honestly, when I learned
• 15:36
  about her story, like I kind of feel lucky that I grew up in my
• 15:39
  situation. It was a lot less complex.
• 15:41
  And yeah, we didn't have much money, but we didn't have some
• 15:43
  of those issues. And so, you know, it's not
• 15:45
  necessarily that you have more problems if you don't have
• 15:48
  money. You could have the same amount
• 15:50
  of problems. They're just different problems.
• 15:51
  And we need to allow everyone to have a safe space to to feel
• 15:56
  what they're feeling and go through because otherwise how
• 15:57
  are they going to better understand their their money
• 15:59
  story and how are they going to heal if we don't let them?
• 16:03
  It's so true. And if you have so much shame
• 16:05
  that you can't even talk to, Oh my God, it's just there's so
• 16:09
  many layers to it. Like you're not supposed to talk
• 16:11
  about money to people, you know? Yeah.
• 16:13
  And then you're so conditioned to holding it in that are you
• 16:16
  really going to feel that comfortable talking to your
• 16:18
  therapist who you don't necessarily want to see weekly?
• 16:22
  Cause you don't want to spend that much money on your therapy,
• 16:25
  But then you can't then talk about your generational wealth
• 16:28
  because they're like, well, what are you complaining about not
• 16:30
  seeing me? I don't know, there's just maybe
• 16:32
  I'm making that story up for myself, but it's like there's,
• 16:37
  it's just so complex. Like who can you share that
• 16:39
  with? Who can you share that
• 16:41
  information with? Who even a little bit on that.
• 16:43
  I don't think I shared this in the book, but when I was talking
• 16:45
  with that woman, she shared that part.
• 16:47
  She ended up becoming a therapist and one thing that so
• 16:51
  she mainly focuses on working with clients who do come from
• 16:55
  generational wealth. And part of the reason is
• 16:58
  because she saw so many people in her circle, whether that was
• 17:02
  friends and family who were kind of in the same income bracket.
• 17:04
  Be take advantage by people, be like, oh, you have money.
• 17:07
  I'm going to charge you a ridiculous fee even when, you
• 17:10
  know, ethically they should be charging the same fee because
• 17:13
  it's the same service. But they would charge incredible
• 17:16
  amounts of money to these people because they're well, they have
• 17:18
  the money. But you're like, that's not that
• 17:21
  doesn't matter Her like, yeah, maybe you can, you know, charge
• 17:24
  a little bit more, but not like 100 times more.
• 17:27
  And so she saw this and didn't like how all these people were
• 17:31
  being taken advantage of and she wanted to be more ethical
• 17:35
  therapist for people kind of came from that.
• 17:37
  Because, you know, again, just because you have money doesn't
• 17:39
  mean that you don't necessarily have what if, you know, that
• 17:43
  they are planning on giving away all of their money before they
• 17:46
  die. Or so you know, it's just it's
• 17:48
  one of those things. It's like, yeah, again, there's
• 17:49
  problems on all sides. Do we need to understand that
• 17:53
  it's not easy? Never assume, never do you
• 17:57
  actually said a couple times in the book like you were talking
• 17:59
  about inheritance and that being a source of wealth.
• 18:02
  And I think we have to start talking about the fact that this
• 18:05
  is a generation that is about to you probably know the stats, but
• 18:08
  we are this generation is about to inherit the most wealth
• 18:11
  that's ever been passed down. I understood from an article I
• 18:13
  think I read and ever in history, because the boomers
• 18:17
  didn't make a lot of money. They were in a position to do
• 18:19
  that. And now this money is going to
• 18:20
  be going somewhere. And we're not talking about
• 18:23
  money still. And, you know, this generation's
• 18:25
  about to get flooded with money. Like, yeah, that's scary
• 18:29
  because. Like really isn't always the
• 18:31
  solution. And, and part of the reason I
• 18:33
  wrote this book is because a lot of people think if I just had
• 18:36
  money, then I wouldn't have problems.
• 18:38
  And yeah, sometimes that is the solution.
• 18:41
  If it really is an income issue, your income is not meeting your
• 18:44
  needs, Fair enough. More money would fix that.
• 18:46
  You can pay your bills, you can pay your rent.
• 18:48
  You won't have to worry about that.
• 18:49
  But for most people that I see struggle financially is not for
• 18:53
  a lot like we work on their budget and we figure it out and
• 18:55
  we can perfect their cash flow. So it's not actually a money
• 18:59
  issue. It's about everything, but money
• 19:00
  has the title. And So what I, you know, kind of
• 19:04
  going off, we are going to see this big transition of wealth go
• 19:08
  to the next generation. And a lot of these people will
• 19:11
  not necessarily have the tools on what to do.
• 19:15
  And you know, we see this all the time with like lottery
• 19:18
  winners. They think, oh, great, now I
• 19:20
  have millions of dollars that I just won.
• 19:22
  I know more problems and they the money is gone within a year
• 19:26
  or two because they did not have the tools.
• 19:28
  And by tools that don't necessarily mean like, you know,
• 19:31
  a budget, though that is incredibly important, but just
• 19:36
  some of the psychological behavioral tools to know what to
• 19:38
  do and what not to do. And also like how to, to trust
• 19:41
  the right people in the industry to take care of your finances
• 19:43
  for you. I mean, when you have a lot of
• 19:46
  wealth or even just, you know, I do talk to people often when I'm
• 19:48
  just like in my daily life. And they asked me, Oh, you know,
• 19:51
  what do you do if I'm like friends party or something, meet
• 19:53
  someone new and they tell them and literally I put this in the
• 19:56
  book. It's like they start whispering.
• 19:57
  You're like, oh, really? I have something to ask you.
• 20:00
  And I, I've forgotten people being like, I actually just
• 20:03
  inherited something from, you know?
• 20:05
  Grandparents and I actually don't know what to do.
• 20:07
  And I'm really worried about making a mistake.
• 20:09
  And that is a very common thing because again, no one talks
• 20:11
  about money and who do you go to?
• 20:13
  And often, you know, maybe you'll think, well, I should go
• 20:16
  to the bank and talk to an advisor.
• 20:17
  But again, that person, it has a motivation to work with you to
• 20:22
  make money off of you. And so there's a lot of people
• 20:24
  you need to be very careful who who should and shouldn't, you
• 20:28
  know, be involved in your finances.
• 20:30
  Who can you trust and who can you maybe not trust because
• 20:32
  they're actually a salesperson, not a planner.
• 20:36
  And so, yeah, that's part of the the reason for the book is we
• 20:39
  need, you need to understand you and money before you are in a
• 20:44
  position where maybe you do inherit, you know, a substantial
• 20:47
  amount of money. So you know exactly what to do
• 20:50
  with it. You know what to put into
• 20:51
  savings, what to pay, you know, pay off your debt.
• 20:53
  Like have that plan, but most importantly, not let emotions
• 20:57
  involved in that plan because that is why people, you know,
• 21:01
  these lottery winners spend all their money is based off of a
• 21:04
  ton of different factors, including their emotions and
• 21:06
  just, you know, maybe people pleasing or all these things
• 21:09
  that they hadn't worked through before that moment.
• 21:12
  Yes, that's a really, that's a really important point, is just
• 21:15
  the like what you said about like you have to just, you have
• 21:18
  to like uncover everything. Like look under the hood.
• 21:22
  Yeah, look into the past. It's icky work.
• 21:24
  I'm sure for a lot of us. It's icky work for me, I felt.
• 21:26
  Confronted. Yeah.
• 21:28
  It's supposed to make you uncomfortable.
• 21:29
  And like, you know, like I wrote in the book, I'm not just
• 21:32
  telling you to do this. I did it myself.
• 21:34
  I did a lot of therapy during the course of me writing that
• 21:36
  book. It was a big roller coaster.
• 21:40
  It was a very interesting journey of self reflection.
• 21:44
  And it was difficult in some moments and I'd have some
• 21:47
  difficult conversations with my family about things that I never
• 21:50
  processed before. And but I came out of it so much
• 21:54
  stronger and so much happier. And I have more tools in my
• 21:57
  toolbox. Even personally, you know, say
• 22:00
  if I'm online and you know, there's an influencer that comes
• 22:03
  up talking about how much money they make.
• 22:05
  And that would always be a big trigger.
• 22:06
  Still kind of is because I then immediately compare myself to
• 22:10
  this person who I do not know, don't know anything about, but
• 22:13
  they're, I know they're making more money than me.
• 22:14
  And then I would start to feel inadequate.
• 22:16
  Now I have more tools in my toolbox.
• 22:18
  Be like, great, we're going to mute them.
• 22:19
  Could block them. This isn't serving me or, or
• 22:22
  when I'm going through those feelings of like, Oh my gosh,
• 22:25
  I'm, you know, I'm not doing so well.
• 22:27
  If this person's making this, I could be like, why do I feel
• 22:29
  like that when I was perfectly fine and happy before I saw this
• 22:34
  piece of content? Oh, right, it's because of this,
• 22:37
  this and this, this goes from my past.
• 22:39
  This is a trigger. This is how I always feel when
• 22:41
  this happens. So now that I'm more mindful of
• 22:43
  the situation, I can, you know, use some strategies to get
• 22:47
  myself back into that place of like calm, peace and connection
• 22:51
  instead of like feeling really anxious or bad about myself
• 22:54
  because it's just not serving me.
• 22:56
  And that doesn't help. But that's something that I I
• 22:58
  practice at all the time. And then you find yourself
• 23:02
  speaking from experience. When I was going through a big
• 23:04
  career change, when I found you and your podcast, I'd find
• 23:06
  myself on the couch scrolling through they didn't have TikTok
• 23:10
  then, but I'm sure now it would have been TikTok like Instagram
• 23:12
  or like blog forums of like how to make like side hustle.
• 23:17
  I started, I started started signing up for those research,
• 23:20
  like those online research things.
• 23:22
  It's like you can make this much money per month.
• 23:24
  Oh my God, I was getting all these emails to do these like
• 23:27
  Research Services. It I mean, it was out of
• 23:29
  control. Yeah, right.
• 23:31
  And only because I saw this post of like this person being
• 23:34
  promoted at work. And I was like, what was he
• 23:35
  doing leaving my, you know, advertising career that I'd been
• 23:38
  working so hard in, pivoted, did my yoga teacher training, had no
• 23:42
  idea what was next. And I was like, wow, the
• 23:44
  thinking as I found you because I was like, OK, we can break
• 23:46
  this down. OK, good.
• 23:48
  I'm glad I helped. Yeah, yeah, it's all worked out.
• 23:51
  You know, it's it, it took a bit.
• 23:53
  Why do you think that people say so let's and let's contextualize
• 23:57
  this to like the working parent who is my audience.
• 23:59
  Yeah. Why do you think you know the
• 24:01
  the stressed out parents of like little kids or whatever?
• 24:04
  Why is it that they automatically go to?
• 24:07
  If we just were making a bit more money, this would all be
• 24:09
  easier. Well, in certain circumstances
• 24:12
  that could be true because if you had more money, you could
• 24:15
  hire someone to, you know, do your laundry, do your dishes,
• 24:20
  you know, daycare is so expensive, you could maybe
• 24:22
  afford that. So money sometimes can be like,
• 24:25
  oh, if we had more money, we would then have more resources,
• 24:28
  so which would free up a lot more time.
• 24:30
  So that does make sense. However, at a certain point,
• 24:33
  it's not about that. So you need to figure out is it
• 24:35
  that or is it not really that? Is it that, you know, I see this
• 24:38
  a lot with them working moms especially.
• 24:41
  Is it that you were doing all of the housework and you're also
• 24:46
  working and you're, you know, being kind of the primary
• 24:49
  parent, but you have a a husband or a wife who's there too and
• 24:53
  they're not doing anything. They're not being kind of an
• 24:56
  equal partner. Then maybe that's actually the
• 24:59
  issue is we need to have a conversation about how can we
• 25:02
  have more balance with everything that goes into is
• 25:06
  maintaining a home and our lives.
• 25:08
  I think too often it's sometimes easier to avoid the
• 25:12
  conversation. You're like, I'll just do it
• 25:14
  myself because they never load the dishes dishwasher properly
• 25:17
  or they don't do laundry how I like it.
• 25:20
  But that's that's a Band-Aid. We need to have those kind of
• 25:23
  tough conversations to be like, if I want to have more time, so
• 25:28
  I'm not just working at work and then at home, whereas, you know,
• 25:31
  my partner has a lot more free time.
• 25:34
  Well, that we need to have a conversation about it because
• 25:37
  that isn't fair. I, you know, that's how burnout
• 25:39
  happens all the time with new moms especially, They just take
• 25:42
  on too much. And, you know, again, this is
• 25:45
  like going beyond. There's actually a few people I
• 25:48
  know who are like working on books on these kind of topics
• 25:50
  specifically, which is fascinating.
• 25:53
  But you know, yeah, women do have still, you know, still in
• 25:57
  this world where a lot of people like, Oh no, the glass ceiling
• 25:59
  was broken and everything's equal.
• 26:02
  It absolutely isn't. There's still a lot of
• 26:04
  traditional gender roles that just we fall into at a certain
• 26:08
  point and we need to really identify some of those so we, we
• 26:11
  can have, you know, more time. Because I think often it's not,
• 26:14
  we don't need more money. We need more time and more money
• 26:17
  potentially could help with that.
• 26:19
  Or a partner who fills that role so we don't have to do 2 roles
• 26:23
  is actually what we need. That's so it's such a good core
• 26:26
  like or a tie that you're connecting there between time
• 26:28
  and because those are the 2 as a career coach for parents, those
• 26:33
  are the two levers that come up within minutes of talking to the
• 26:37
  person. Why are you here?
• 26:39
  Boom, I don't have enough time. Boom.
• 26:41
  I need to in order to get more time, I need more money.
• 26:45
  How do you, even if we start, I guess going towards the past, I
• 26:47
  know that you're kind of like you need to like unravel that
• 26:51
  whole thing before you get into even the future.
• 26:54
  Even thinking about like when should I introduce allowance and
• 26:56
  all that. Like it feels like we gotta go
• 26:58
  back. How do you advise you know a
• 27:00
  client if they're really struggling with that time,
• 27:02
  money, stress? Like where do you even start?
• 27:06
  Yeah. Well, I would say especially if
• 27:08
  you're like a new parent, it really I do believe when it
• 27:12
  comes to money. And then like, how do I teach my
• 27:14
  kids about money when I don't know what's going on?
• 27:16
  We, we do need to put like that the error oxygen mask on
• 27:20
  yourself first before we can teach anything to our kids.
• 27:23
  So we need to fix ourselves before we can fix anybody else
• 27:26
  or before we could be a teacher to someone else.
• 27:28
  And so you need to really understand what is the origin
• 27:31
  story for me and my money? What what was my first
• 27:34
  interaction with money? That was at the beginning of the
• 27:37
  book where I walk you through an exercise to really uncover your
• 27:39
  first money memory to see has that one instance that if you
• 27:43
  can remember something that happened to you that had to do
• 27:45
  with money when you were really young, like 56 and you're, you
• 27:49
  know, in your 30s and 40s or whatever.
• 27:51
  That means that really had a big impact on you and probably still
• 27:55
  impacting you. That may have kind of set the
• 27:57
  tone for you and money and you may not have realized it.
• 27:59
  And you've just been going along this whole time with like, oh,
• 28:02
  well, that actually answers a lot of questions I've had.
• 28:05
  And so for example, I, you know, share my own story of how I've
• 28:10
  always had this complex relationship with money and
• 28:13
  shame. And I never knew where that
• 28:15
  feeling started from. And it turned out it was this
• 28:17
  event that happened when I was four years old.
• 28:19
  I stole something and, you know, it was caught and it felt very
• 28:23
  ashamed for that whole situation, of course.
• 28:25
  But I. Never put in here.
• 28:26
  It's a gumball by the. Way, it's a gumball.
• 28:28
  I didn't steal anything crazy. It was like a $0.25 gum boiler
• 28:32
  alert. And all these 30 years later,
• 28:34
  still really regretful, but and I, I realized, oh, I never let
• 28:39
  that go. I never healed from that little
• 28:42
  trauma. I was so traumatized and
• 28:43
  embarrassed by that situation for not only being ashamed that
• 28:46
  I did something wrong, but putting shame on my family,
• 28:48
  making us look that, Oh my gosh, that, you know, my mom's kid,
• 28:52
  you know, she stole something that's so, you know, terrible.
• 28:55
  What terrible kid. And so I went through therapy
• 28:59
  and going through all of, you know, the exercises in my book
• 29:02
  again, I did all of them myself to kind of heal myself.
• 29:05
  I realized, oh, I have a certain story that I've been telling
• 29:09
  myself about money and, you know, other things have impacted
• 29:13
  it, some other, you know, traumas and life experiences
• 29:15
  where I always felt like I just was not good enough.
• 29:18
  And I always had to try harder to be better or to prove
• 29:22
  something that no, no, no, I am a good person.
• 29:24
  And I always felt like, well, if I get more money, if I'm more
• 29:29
  successful, then that will be the solution that will fix
• 29:32
  everything. But no matter how much I got or
• 29:35
  where I was at my career, I still always felt inadequate
• 29:37
  because you can always find someone who's better than you.
• 29:39
  And so it wasn't until I really started understanding me and my
• 29:45
  money, my relationship with money, that I was able to start
• 29:48
  and really outline where am I that right now with money and
• 29:52
  where would I like to be? I don't like to feel icky with
• 29:55
  money. Whereas most people, we do feel
• 29:57
  bad about money. It makes us feel bad when we
• 29:59
  think about it. I don't want to feel like that
• 30:01
  anymore. That's terrible.
• 30:02
  Like I'm, I'm soon going to be turning 40 in a few years and I
• 30:05
  don't want to feel this feeling in that next decade.
• 30:11
  And so for me, it was really about breaking down my
• 30:15
  relationship with money now, writing where I'd like it to be
• 30:18
  and trying to fill those gaps and, and see, OK, what are some
• 30:21
  of those events that happened that, oh, this is this happened
• 30:24
  to me when this, you know, trauma kind of resurfaces and I
• 30:29
  get triggered. My behavior is like this.
• 30:32
  And I usually use money as a way to kind of self sue.
• 30:35
  There's all these things that kind of kind of go together that
• 30:40
  will eventually lead you to a place of, oh, that makes so much
• 30:43
  sense. Why, no matter how much I earn,
• 30:46
  I never feel good enough or no matter how much I spend, it
• 30:49
  feels good for a minute and then I don't feel good and then I
• 30:52
  have to do it again and I can't get off this hamster wheel of
• 30:55
  overspending. So it's really just about better
• 30:58
  if you would understand your relationship with money, where
• 31:00
  it started, what is impacted it, and to really kind of sit back
• 31:04
  and see, oh, that's what's going on.
• 31:06
  You'll be in such a better position to then, you know,
• 31:10
  throw out the bad, keep the good and restructure it.
• 31:13
  So when you're at a point where you do want to talk to your kids
• 31:15
  about money, and I highly encourage you to talk to your
• 31:17
  kids about money earlier than, you know, when they're a
• 31:20
  teenager because they, they know about money.
• 31:22
  They it's everywhere great. They see commercials, they know
• 31:24
  about money. Have those conversations and do
• 31:28
  what you wish you had maybe when they were their age.
• 31:32
  So talk about money in a way where there's no shame or blame
• 31:36
  or judgment, but just recognizing, well, money is just
• 31:38
  a tool is something you earn. It's something that you then
• 31:41
  spend to get things that you want or that you need and really
• 31:44
  take the power out of money because it's it's just a, a
• 31:47
  mechanism, but it's not a character, it's not a person,
• 31:51
  it's not a thing. But sometimes it's such, it is
• 31:54
  kind of such a big character in our lives.
• 31:56
  We allow it to have that power over us, but really we need to
• 31:59
  take our power back. As you were talking, it's making
• 32:02
  me think of just the words quiet confidence kept coming up.
• 32:06
  I think I was starting to make it in my head.
• 32:07
  I was starting to do the a little processing myself as I
• 32:10
  was doing when I was listening to your book, I listened to your
• 32:13
  beautiful audio book. Your voice is so soothing and
• 32:17
  and I was just thinking about quiet confidence and I was kind
• 32:19
  of sitting there was laughing to myself that it's kind of like
• 32:21
  this whole like old money trend like people are trying to dress
• 32:24
  like. Money or whatever.
• 32:25
  Yeah, and what's like funny about all of that is that
• 32:28
  there's something, it's taking the air out of it because it's
• 32:30
  not flashy, it's not in your face.
• 32:32
  It's not talking about money in a big way or in a crass way.
• 32:36
  It's just like this, not apologizing for it.
• 32:39
  That's where I want to be. I want to be in a place where
• 32:41
  I'm not apologizing for it. I'm not explaining a situation.
• 32:44
  I'm not explaining why I have a nanny, which I fall into that
• 32:47
  trap all the time. And it's a weird 1.
• 32:49
  And I'm like, we have a nanny cause COVID.
• 32:52
  Oh my God. It's like, it's horrific.
• 32:55
  You know? I hear myself and I'm like, this
• 32:56
  is so weird. I'm making this weird.
• 32:58
  Nobody cares. Cool.
• 32:59
  You have any? Great.
• 33:00
  No, and if they're judgmental about that, that's their thing.
• 33:03
  Yes, that is their relationship with money, their judgment
• 33:08
  likely they learn something when they were younger about, you
• 33:11
  know, again, we talked about in the book, we all come from
• 33:15
  somewhere and learn things directly and directly from our
• 33:17
  parents and those include some of our our values to do with
• 33:21
  money. And so a lot of us, if we were
• 33:23
  especially raised lower income, we would look to the people who
• 33:27
  are higher income and have judgments on the things that
• 33:29
  they have. A lot of it has to do with like
• 33:31
  envy. We were envious that they had
• 33:32
  those things and we did not have those things.
• 33:33
  And so we would try to rationalize, Oh, they, they
• 33:37
  haven't. Well, they have money, you know,
• 33:39
  as if that's a bad thing. And, and I kind of, you know, I
• 33:41
  have a lot of those things I had to rework because those are not
• 33:44
  helpful. Those are those are going to be
• 33:46
  self limiting beliefs. If you feel like having money is
• 33:49
  bad, then you were going to limit how much money that maybe
• 33:52
  you intend to earn yourself. Or, you know, you're going to
• 33:55
  say like, there's this one person I interviewed for the
• 33:58
  book. He came from a low income
• 33:59
  background and his parents had very conflicting values and
• 34:02
  beliefs about money, which was very confusing for him growing
• 34:05
  up, where they thought money was the root of all evil.
• 34:07
  And you know, people with wealth, they got it unethically.
• 34:10
  They're all bad people. But also, if we only had more
• 34:13
  money, our lives would be so much better and everything would
• 34:16
  be great. And you're like, so which one?
• 34:17
  Is it money bad or is money good?
• 34:19
  And because of that, he had a very difficult time sticking to
• 34:23
  a budget or he never even had a budget and he would spend his
• 34:26
  money kind of freely cause he didn't actually want to keep it
• 34:29
  because he's like, Oh no, I don't want it near me.
• 34:31
  So he's kind of like rejecting money because he's like, well,
• 34:34
  if I accumulate money, then I might get into that position of
• 34:37
  having wealth and then I don't want to be a bad person.
• 34:39
  But then on the other side, then it was spending too much money
• 34:42
  and then he got into debt. And so he needed to recognize
• 34:46
  that, yeah, this isn't working for me.
• 34:47
  These beliefs that I got from my parents are not serving me.
• 34:50
  They're actually really hurting me.
• 34:52
  And I actually don't want to end up like my parents because I see
• 34:54
  them now they're in their retirement and they don't have
• 34:57
  enough savings to to state themselves.
• 34:59
  So what can I do now to kind of again, let go of the things that
• 35:03
  are not helpful. And these values, they don't
• 35:06
  really come from me. They come from them and their
• 35:08
  situation. They're past their their
• 35:09
  childhoods. And what can I adopt instead?
• 35:12
  A better mindset. And so he was able to kind of
• 35:16
  get rid of his idea that money is the root of all evil.
• 35:18
  And also, that's not the Bible verse anyway.
• 35:20
  It's the love of money is the root of all evil, which is like,
• 35:22
  yeah, don't be materialistic. Don't be money obsessed, which I
• 35:25
  think we can all agree, yeah, that's not a good thing.
• 35:27
  But also he's like, oh, but if I accumulate more wealth for
• 35:30
  myself, not only will I be able to be in a more secure position
• 35:34
  for me and take care of me, which is great, but then I'll
• 35:37
  also have more resources to help others.
• 35:39
  I can help my community more. I could donate money to charity.
• 35:41
  I can do all these other things because I have more resources.
• 35:44
  And isn't that a good thing? So it's really about reframing
• 35:48
  some of those those things that we don't know where they come
• 35:51
  from until you take a good thing.
• 35:52
  You're like, Oh yeah, that's not even something I believe in.
• 35:55
  Why do I still think that? It's so funny and it and it
• 35:58
  sounds like it's also having empathy.
• 35:59
  You're talking about empathy in the book, which I thought was
• 36:01
  really cool. And it's not just having empathy
• 36:04
  for others and never knowing what another person's context or
• 36:07
  situation is. We make so many assumptions in
• 36:09
  that. So many assumptions.
• 36:10
  And how it's it's sad really, but I think it sounds like it's
• 36:14
  also having empathy for yourself and like your, your little self
• 36:16
  of like you, however you grew up and in whatever context and
• 36:21
  situation you grew up that wasn't you.
• 36:24
  Had nothing to do with fault. It wasn't your fault and it had
• 36:28
  nothing to do with you because you were killed.
• 36:30
  And so a lot of these things that we have as adults, we got
• 36:34
  when we were children, but they're not helping us.
• 36:36
  They're not serving us. They're hurting us likely.
• 36:38
  And so we need to let those go. But before we do that, we have
• 36:41
  to recognize what the hell are they?
• 36:42
  Because most of us are running on autopilot with our money
• 36:46
  beliefs and values and feelings. And so that's why the the start
• 36:50
  of the book is really like, let's talk about your feelings
• 36:52
  with money because I guess, no, I bet no one has ever asked you
• 36:55
  how does money make you feel like really feel?
• 36:58
  Let's dig into it because guaranteed, like there, there
• 37:01
  are, you know, a select few people be like, actually feel
• 37:04
  really good. Awesome.
• 37:05
  You probably don't need my book. But for most of us, we have
• 37:09
  other feelings and they are, you know, shame, guilt, anxiety,
• 37:12
  envy, despair, all these really heavy kind of feelings that we
• 37:17
  need to work through. Otherwise, we're just going to
• 37:19
  be, you know, again on the hamster wheel a couple years
• 37:22
  later in the exact same situation.
• 37:24
  Yes, and you know what, they might not need to read your book
• 37:26
  for themselves, but they should read your book for others
• 37:29
  because I think it does expose a huge amount of sympathy for
• 37:31
  those around you. You know, like talking about
• 37:34
  that nanny situation, It's so interesting to be like, I have a
• 37:37
  nanny and my baggage. I then try to justify why we
• 37:40
  have a nanny. Yeah, why we have this, why we
• 37:42
  have that, whatever. And then if a person makes a
• 37:44
  face or kind of has like a, a look, I start to project what I
• 37:48
  think their money story is. And I'm not acting with empathy.
• 37:51
  And so then I think they might just be thinking or they might
• 37:54
  smell a bad smell or whatever, Right?
• 37:56
  There's so many things, but. There's so many things and then
• 37:58
  all of a sudden I'm like, Oh my God, like I'm justified so.
• 38:02
  But you're trying to make sense of the world around you
• 38:04
  constantly and it's just you just need to have more empathy,
• 38:07
  like you just need to say and also it's none of your business.
• 38:10
  It's your. It's my.
• 38:11
  Money is none of your business, and your money is no one else's
• 38:15
  business. No.
• 38:16
  And I think again, if someone has a judgment, that's on them.
• 38:20
  It has nothing to do with you. It's, you know, if you, if
• 38:25
  you're doing the things, you're like, well, I can afford a
• 38:27
  nanny, I need a nanny, I got a nanny.
• 38:29
  What's the problem? There's no problem.
• 38:31
  And so it's helping your life and, and, and you've got your
• 38:34
  plan and you're doing it. And that's wonderful.
• 38:37
  But again, it's, it's, I think we are just so conscious of it.
• 38:41
  At the end of the day, and I think I mentioned this in the
• 38:43
  book as well, the reason we behave or feel or think about
• 38:47
  things is because we're constantly just thinking about
• 38:49
  other people. How do people perceive us?
• 38:51
  I want to be liked. Will I be liked?
• 38:54
  You're less liked if I reveal this information.
• 38:56
  And so probably thinking if I revealed that I have a nanny and
• 39:00
  don't justify it, then maybe I'll be less likable.
• 39:03
  Or maybe they'll, you know, they won't invite me to whatever
• 39:05
  because I don't fit their idea of what a mom should be and a
• 39:09
  mom should be working 24/7 or something like that.
• 39:12
  But that's just not the reality of it.
• 39:13
  So I think part of it is we are so focused on what other people
• 39:16
  think or, you know, but what I found is most people are too
• 39:20
  busy actually thinking about what other themselves and how
• 39:23
  other people perceive them. You know, they're not really
• 39:25
  thinking about you. They're too busy thinking
• 39:27
  they're in the same position, you know, so they're, Oh my God,
• 39:31
  you're judging me because I have a nanny.
• 39:33
  And they're probably like, Oh my gosh, is she judging me?
• 39:35
  Because they don't have a nanny, you know?
• 39:38
  I'm like, I promise I spend time with my kids.
• 39:40
  That's that's the next train of thought.
• 39:41
  I'm like, oh, are they judging me because they think I'm some
• 39:43
  like multi millionaire? Or are they judging me because I
• 39:45
  always assume you're judging me and I'm trying to decide which
• 39:48
  one it is? Or are they judging me because
• 39:50
  they think I have money? Or are they judging me because
• 39:52
  they think I don't love my kids and I don't spend time with
• 39:53
  them? So then I start being like, it's
• 39:55
  great. We get to see each other at
• 39:56
  lunch and no, no, no, no. Oh my God, it's like.
• 39:59
  It's it's insane. So it's just like it's, you
• 40:02
  know, yeah, there's and there's a lot I don't know.
• 40:05
  Yeah, there's that's a complex, that's a complex one that's
• 40:07
  really complex. You.
• 40:08
  Know and childcare is like. Childcare is such a hot topic.
• 40:12
  It's so complicated. I think women especially, we get
• 40:15
  that judgment of oh, you're deciding to work, you're not
• 40:18
  going to stay at home. I'm like, well #1 how can you
• 40:20
  afford to stay at home with the cost of living as it is?
• 40:23
  Like we generally need to people who have some kind of income
• 40:27
  stream coming in. But also, why would we?
• 40:29
  We're not judging the man that he is a nanny.
• 40:32
  He also has the nanny. You know what I mean?
• 40:34
  Why is the judgment always on the women?
• 40:36
  That doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense.
• 40:38
  OK, so we hear a lot that this is such an expensive phase of
• 40:41
  life. You know what?
• 40:43
  You're just in an expensive phase of life.
• 40:45
  And it almost feels like this resignation.
• 40:46
  And I've said it and I heard it from my I have an incredible
• 40:50
  financial planner in my life who's, who's empathetic and
• 40:53
  kind, and he's always trying to reassure us.
• 40:55
  You're in an expensive phase of life.
• 40:56
  That's helpful. And at the same time, it
• 40:59
  sometimes makes it feel like you were talking about that vision,
• 41:02
  like the vision down the line and how important it is to
• 41:05
  really like understand what you're striving for and why and
• 41:08
  how much do you want to give? What kind of beautiful life do
• 41:10
  you want for you? Not based on what the Joneses
• 41:12
  think or, or perceiving. So how do we reconcile those two
• 41:15
  pieces of feeling like we're in it?
• 41:18
  And it's like tricky. And everybody you talked to was
• 41:22
  talking about groceries and everybody's talking about how
• 41:24
  expensive kids are. And everyone's like, oh,
• 41:25
  baseball's this much. Everyone's talking about money
• 41:28
  in such a negative. They're not actually talking
• 41:29
  about money. Yeah, they're talking about this
• 41:32
  like, oh, isn't this it expensive phase of life?
• 41:35
  And it's like, it's like talking about the shitty weather.
• 41:38
  Yeah, you're like that. It's raining.
• 41:39
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 41:40
  It's raining. We're in Vancouver today, it's
• 41:42
  raining. And at the same time we're
• 41:44
  supposed to hold this vision and manifest this like future
• 41:47
  beautiful life. But the two things feel so far
• 41:50
  away from one another. How console us as parents?
• 41:54
  How can a parent, um, Oh my gosh, reconcile these two huge
• 42:02
  pieces that we are trying to. Right.
• 42:05
  So one kind of thing that you can try is talk to parents who
• 42:10
  are out of that phase of life, the ones that are the kids are
• 42:13
  in college or they've moved out, and just to see, like, what's
• 42:17
  that like? Because especially when you're a
• 42:19
  mom, you're likely with the similar group of people in the
• 42:23
  same phase. And so that's all you see.
• 42:25
  So that feels like that's the only thing that exists.
• 42:27
  And so I think it'd be really important to.
• 42:29
  Yeah, try to find in some way whether it's through like
• 42:33
  friends, family, who's not, who's in the next phase and can
• 42:37
  I talk to them about what that looks like, what that feels
• 42:39
  like, what they wish they did? You know, sometimes you're like,
• 42:42
  oh, actually when we were in that phase, it felt like it was
• 42:46
  taking forever. But then he actually, you blink
• 42:48
  and it just went by so quickly. I really wish I enjoyed the
• 42:50
  journey instead of complaining like, can't wait till this is
• 42:53
  over and now it's over and now the kids are gone and now I'm an
• 42:55
  empty nester. Now, You know, that's often what
• 42:57
  I hear from people in that phase is they wish they maybe did
• 43:01
  things a little bit differently or enjoyed things a bit more
• 43:04
  instead of just focusing on some of the really tough parts of it.
• 43:08
  So that's what one thing I would suggest, but also the other
• 43:11
  thing is, especially when it comes to any kind of like
• 43:14
  financial planning, the thing that really gets us through
• 43:17
  those hard times is that vision of the future of when we get
• 43:22
  over this big hump of, you know, we have, you know, 3 kids,
• 43:26
  they're in school, they have all these extracurricular active,
• 43:29
  everything is just chaotic, inexpensive.
• 43:31
  Oh my gosh, it, it, it does feel like it's going to last forever,
• 43:35
  but then it really doesn't. I mean, I've got, I'm not a mom,
• 43:37
  but I've got a, a niece and somehow she's six years old and
• 43:40
  I'm like, how did that happen? She was a baby yesterday.
• 43:43
  She was a baby. What that now she's like this
• 43:45
  child who has, is very smart and having full conversations with
• 43:49
  me and I'm like, what? And so life, I mean, I find like
• 43:54
  this, especially to, as I'm in my late 30s, life goes by so
• 43:57
  quickly. And so, but what does get you
• 44:00
  through those hard times is having that, that what are we
• 44:03
  working towards? And how could we also then
• 44:06
  celebrate all of those milestones?
• 44:08
  So even during those tough times, you're probably going to
• 44:10
  experience some really amazing milestones and those amazing
• 44:12
  things that you see your kids able to, you're like, Oh my
• 44:15
  gosh, I can't believe they, you know, passed that test or, or
• 44:18
  whatever the case is, you've got to celebrate those things
• 44:21
  instead of so it's about balancing of being present in
• 44:24
  the moment, but never forgetting what we're working towards.
• 44:27
  So enjoy what you got now and don't just focus on the
• 44:31
  negative. Maybe catch yourself when you
• 44:33
  are talking like that, especially you and your partner.
• 44:35
  If you're getting into that kind of mode back and forth, you need
• 44:38
  to be like, whoa, whoa, let's maybe change our tune a little
• 44:41
  bit because the more positive talk that we do with each other,
• 44:46
  that actually makes things. Sometimes it just makes things a
• 44:49
  little bit lighter. I do that a lot.
• 44:52
  I am a natural complainer and I've had to work really hard on
• 44:55
  recognizing when I'm doing that and be like, oh, I don't feel
• 44:58
  good when I complain all the time because then it just feels
• 45:00
  like everything's awful. If we started just focusing on
• 45:03
  or not just focusing, but having a bigger focus on, but what's
• 45:06
  working, what's going well, what are some really things that we
• 45:09
  could be really happy about? And let's talk about those like
• 45:12
  80% and then complain 20%. That might, you know, be the
• 45:16
  thing that you need just to kind of, you know, get a little bit
• 45:19
  of a release, but also focus on how lucky and privileged and all
• 45:22
  the good things that are actually happening.
• 45:24
  That's so true. So really celebrating some of
• 45:26
  the smaller milestones along the way.
• 45:28
  Like we all have the the big vision.
• 45:30
  Say there's like the Infinity pool or the vacation you want to
• 45:33
  go on sitting in the pod or whatever it is in the first
• 45:35
  class, but and you can still hold that.
• 45:39
  But it sounds like you're saying like break it down too and enjoy
• 45:41
  some of those small moments. Something else, a question I
• 45:44
  need to ask you is do you ever, do you find yourself kind of
• 45:47
  advising people or hearing people who are in this phase who
• 45:50
  maybe actually should like, like loosen the purse strings a tiny
• 45:55
  bit so that they can find more enjoyment?
• 45:57
  Like I've actually thought about, you know, an exercise
• 45:59
  that my husband and I did do when we were deciding about
• 46:02
  childcare. There was a lot of factors that
• 46:04
  went into which I know right now I don't need to justify.
• 46:07
  And one of them guys like we want to ease the burden to the
• 46:11
  best of our ability, not burden of children, but the stuff
• 46:15
  around it. And like we want to be in our
• 46:17
  house with our kids and we would like to have a little bit of
• 46:20
  extra support around the house. And so in order to show up the
• 46:23
  best way that we want to and you know, based on the values and
• 46:27
  the vision we have, this was a decision that we made.
• 46:29
  And I'm so like, I'm really thanking my previous self four
• 46:33
  years ago for doing that. Do you find that are there times
• 46:36
  where you're like, just allow yourself a bit like spend a tiny
• 46:40
  bit more where you can afford it so that you can enjoy the
• 46:43
  process, not just wait for this like check out at the end?
• 46:46
  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I see that a lot with
• 46:49
  especially people who are very focused on say retiring one day.
• 46:53
  They push all of their dreams and goals into retirement.
• 46:57
  And you know, like retirement could last 30 or 40 years of
• 47:00
  your like, it could also last 10.
• 47:02
  And so why are you not enjoying your life while you're saving
• 47:06
  for retirement? I see that a lot with the older
• 47:08
  generations is they just put everything into I'll do that.
• 47:11
  I'll start painting and write my great novel when I'm retired.
• 47:14
  When you're like, but you can do it now on on, you know, an hour
• 47:17
  a day or whatever you want. You can do whatever you want
• 47:19
  right now. You're at all you can do
• 47:21
  whatever you want. And so I think it depends, it's
• 47:23
  a case by case basis for sure, depending on on what your
• 47:26
  financial situation is. What I find I talk about this
• 47:29
  kind of at the end of the book, we talk more about happiness and
• 47:32
  money and the things that actually get us happiness.
• 47:34
  Let's not lose sight of what actually brings us long-term
• 47:38
  joy. And it's really time and
• 47:40
  experiences. That's what it is.
• 47:41
  And so if you have the resources to help you get more time and
• 47:45
  those memories, yeah, absolutely do it.
• 47:49
  But if maybe you're too focused on, you know, buying those
• 47:53
  material things again, which most of us buy material goods
• 47:57
  not for ourselves, but for others, we want someone to
• 47:59
  comment on our outfit, our car, our house, whatever the joy that
• 48:04
  that will bring us. So fleeting.
• 48:05
  And so we really do need to shift like the idea of how do we
• 48:09
  spend our money and why? And will it really produce the
• 48:14
  the, the biggest impact in a positive way?
• 48:17
  And so for you, you found a way that, OK, we do have the
• 48:19
  resources to free up some more time, then let's do that.
• 48:23
  That's amazing. But I wouldn't necessarily
• 48:25
  recommend like, oh, you've got some more resources.
• 48:27
  Yeah, you can buy that more expensive car because I'm like,
• 48:30
  will it give you exponential happiness compared to say like a
• 48:33
  family trip? Honestly, the data shows no,
• 48:36
  it's not going to make you that much happier.
• 48:39
  That hits. That really hits.
• 48:41
  Yeah. And it's so funny how there's so
• 48:43
  much, I think you said it maybe in the book or just in general,
• 48:46
  like it's just so much of this is stuff that we know.
• 48:49
  But when you contextualize it and you remind yourself, like,
• 48:52
  yes, we know that materialism isn't, isn't at like the best
• 48:56
  thing in the entire world. Yeah, we all know that.
• 48:58
  But you just you definitely need to be reminded because I mean,
• 49:02
  of course you need to be reminded because literally
• 49:04
  everything external, there's advertisements, there's TV
• 49:07
  shows, movies, social media, they are all advertising to us
• 49:11
  telling us, no, no, no, you do need that material thing.
• 49:14
  Your life will only be complete if you buy this new thing or
• 49:16
  this new thing. And believe me, I get caught up
• 49:19
  in that too. I'm like, well, if only I get a
• 49:20
  better coffee maker or something like that.
• 49:22
  And you're like, that actually is not going to change anything.
• 49:24
  Though I do love my Nespresso. That was a game changer for me.
• 49:27
  But I don't need a brand new one.
• 49:29
  You know, they was coming out versions and like, I don't need
• 49:30
  a new version. This one is going to last me
• 49:32
  until it breaks. I don't need to 1.
• 49:34
  I don't, I don't need, yeah, I don't need all of my appliances
• 49:37
  to be the same colour. That's fine.
• 49:38
  You know what I mean? Like, it doesn't matter.
• 49:41
  Literally no one. Rarely do.
• 49:43
  I have like people coming over every weekend and they would
• 49:47
  never critique my appliances. No one cares, right?
• 49:50
  But we often focus on the wrong things because everything
• 49:53
  externally is telling us what to think.
• 49:55
  And so we really do need to kind of, you know, police ourselves a
• 49:59
  little bit to be like, whoa, whoa, what What's going on here?
• 50:01
  Oh, I'm being like, I've been saying this in my mind.
• 50:03
  Sometimes I'm like, Oh my gosh, just got influenced.
• 50:06
  It happens. It's real.
• 50:07
  Influencers really do influence. Yes.
• 50:09
  I gave rounds just like everybody else.
• 50:11
  Yeah. And you need to be like, is
• 50:13
  this, you know, again, there's nothing wrong with buying
• 50:15
  something through an influencer. If it's something that you want,
• 50:18
  you need, you can afford and it fills, you know, that again,
• 50:22
  it's going to help you get more time or some, some something
• 50:26
  that will give you that long term joy.
• 50:27
  But most of the time they're trying to Hock something that's
• 50:30
  you're going to get and they're like, I was happy for an hour,
• 50:35
  now what? Now why you will never get that
• 50:37
  money back? Great.
• 50:38
  No. Amen.
• 50:40
  The fear of wealth. Hmm.
• 50:43
  Is an interesting one I know. So depending on so if someone's
• 50:46
  doing this work and they're kind of hitting up against this
• 50:49
  interesting phase of life where they're like maybe on the brink,
• 50:52
  they're like camp I'm healing my money story.
• 50:54
  I'm getting to a point where I can feel it coming.
• 50:57
  The vision is maybe on its way. We're kind of getting to the
• 51:01
  maybe especially is this like this audience of maybe 2 income
• 51:04
  earners in a house. They might be reaching almost
• 51:07
  their peak of lots of work. What's the word income?
• 51:11
  Income. Yeah, I got it.
• 51:12
  Money coming. In money, money and they start
• 51:16
  to have this like maybe they're self sabotage or there's like a
• 51:20
  fear of like what happens if I gain the wealth?
• 51:25
  Like what then? Yeah, I mean, well, the the self
• 51:28
  sabotage, I see that a lot. I, I see that a lot with it's
• 51:33
  very visible with people who are like on debt repayment journeys.
• 51:36
  So I saw that as a lot when I started blogging, there is a lot
• 51:39
  of specific categories of personal finance blogs.
• 51:41
  Some of them were just debt blogs.
• 51:42
  They would talk about their debt journey, paying off debt and
• 51:45
  often what would happen because sometimes those blogs but go
• 51:48
  dead and then they would be revitalized a year or two after
• 51:50
  because they're back in debt is because they focus so much on
• 51:55
  paying off this debt. They never learned the skills at
• 51:57
  the same time on how to save or invest.
• 52:00
  And I think they also maybe got so stuck in this idea that I am
• 52:04
  in debt. That is my identity.
• 52:06
  They didn't know how to then identify to well, you're no
• 52:09
  longer in debt, you're debt free.
• 52:11
  Now you're a saver. Now you're an investor, now
• 52:12
  you're building wealth. And so because they didn't maybe
• 52:16
  do that inner work and figure out their money story or how did
• 52:18
  you even get into debt? Because I guess, you know,
• 52:20
  spoiler, most people don't get into debt because they are
• 52:23
  frivolous or they're bad with money or they just overspend.
• 52:27
  Well, no, it's there's always something that is pushing people
• 52:30
  to it could either be just like that's the situation.
• 52:33
  They were low income, all these things were not working to help
• 52:36
  them get out of poverty. And so it's just a very
• 52:39
  difficult situation or people that maybe came from, you know,
• 52:43
  middle income families or even higher income families and
• 52:46
  they're in debt. I mean, it could be for a number
• 52:49
  of reasons that are maybe more internal, such as like, if
• 52:52
  again, I talk about this in the book with if you have any kind
• 52:54
  of trauma, you may use money is a way to soothe yourself.
• 52:58
  And so that's why there's a lot of people out there who are
• 53:01
  shopaholics. They're not shopping because
• 53:04
  they don't know that they can't afford.
• 53:06
  Like they're not doing it because they're like, well, I
• 53:08
  just like to shop and I just have a problem.
• 53:10
  I have a shopping addiction. No, no, you were trying to
• 53:13
  soothe something internally with money and you just need that
• 53:16
  dopamine hit and then it goes away and then you need it again
• 53:18
  and again and again. And so until you really figure
• 53:20
  out what is actually the cause of this situation, then you're
• 53:24
  never going to be able to kind of figure that out.
• 53:25
  So I think if you have like a big actual fear of accumulating
• 53:31
  wealth, you need to figure out why.
• 53:33
  And it could be that, well, you know, even though I'm doing
• 53:38
  probably better than anyone in my family, I'm actually kind of
• 53:40
  ashamed of that because everyone in my family isn't doing so well
• 53:43
  financially. And I don't want them to judge
• 53:45
  me because they're very judgmental with people who have
• 53:48
  wealth. And so I never want to bring up
• 53:49
  money. I kind of hide how well we're
• 53:51
  doing all of these things. And so me maybe self sabotaging
• 53:56
  makes me feel a little bit better because then I'm not this
• 53:59
  person that I'm afraid to become because of all this judgment and
• 54:03
  shame that I have wrapped up into that.
• 54:05
  So there's always something deeper.
• 54:07
  There's always. Something deeper layers.
• 54:09
  Who do you advise people? So someone's like, Oh my gosh,
• 54:12
  this is just hitting home. How do you choose someone to
• 54:16
  maybe unravel the psychological side of this?
• 54:18
  But then also like the practical, logistical, let's
• 54:21
  look at your account and let's like really open up the hood
• 54:24
  there. Yeah.
• 54:25
  So the back of the book or the the end of the book I kind of
• 54:29
  talk about there is a a credential called financial
• 54:33
  therapist. It only exists in the States,
• 54:35
  not in Canada or any other country, but if you are in the
• 54:39
  US, may be someone that you want to look into because they can
• 54:41
  kind of help with both the, you know, money mindset stuff and
• 54:44
  also maybe some of the practical stuff.
• 54:46
  It depends. Everyone's different.
• 54:47
  Like to get that designation, you have to either be a
• 54:50
  financial planner or a therapist and then they kind of teach you
• 54:54
  the financial therapy component, which is helping people kind of
• 54:56
  work some of those blocks and things like that.
• 54:58
  So they may or may not be actually someone to be like, oh,
• 55:01
  I can help you make a financial plan because if they're not CFP,
• 55:03
  then they can't actually do that.
• 55:05
  But in Canada we don't have that designation.
• 55:09
  Basically it's 2 completely kind of different segments.
• 55:11
  We've got therapists and then we've got financial planners.
• 55:14
  And so for the practical how to money stuff, that's when you
• 55:17
  want to talk to either either a QFP.
• 55:19
  So that's the designation. Qualified associate financial
• 55:22
  planner. Those are great because their
• 55:26
  fees are probably a little bit lower than a CFP because CFP
• 55:29
  certified financial planner, they typically you get that
• 55:32
  designation because you want to work your way up in the
• 55:34
  financial industry. You want to work with high net
• 55:37
  worth individuals and so find either a QFP, CFP or my
• 55:42
  designer. I'm working towards my QFP right
• 55:43
  now. But you could also work with an
• 55:46
  accredited financial counselor Canada.
• 55:48
  Those would be someone may be good for a little bit less
• 55:51
  complex situations, more cash flow, debt budgeting, kind of
• 55:55
  just nothing too, too complex. But if you just need someone to
• 55:59
  like kind of give you a jump start, create a foundation that
• 56:01
  might also be a credential you want to look into.
• 56:04
  That's for the money kind of part for like how do we
• 56:06
  structure things? What am I not doing financially
• 56:08
  that I need to? And then for all the mindset
• 56:11
  stuff in inner working stuff, that's when you want to work for
• 56:14
  with a therapist. Now they may not be able to help
• 56:16
  you specific like again, I worked with I think three
• 56:20
  different therapists, semi right, three, I think 3, maybe 4
• 56:24
  while I was doing the book. Yeah, maybe it was 4 and I did a
• 56:29
  couple of different forms of therapy and I told them I'm
• 56:31
  working on a book, but this is also for me.
• 56:34
  And they're like, oh, I don't know anything about money.
• 56:36
  And they're actually actually I have some questions about money.
• 56:38
  So, so they won't be able to help you specifically, I think
• 56:41
  with money quote, UN quote, but they will be able to help you
• 56:46
  unpack. Like if money is this thing that
• 56:48
  is, you know, blocking you in some way, they'll be able to
• 56:51
  help you figure out how can we unblock it.
• 56:54
  So just like, again, your thing, if your thing isn't money,
• 56:57
  that's not the issue. It could be food, it could be
• 56:59
  body and image, it could be all these different things.
• 57:01
  A therapist can help you with those things to try to figure
• 57:03
  out. Well, like at the end of the
• 57:05
  day, it's never actually about the thing that you think it is.
• 57:07
  It's always something deeper. And so that's when you want to
• 57:09
  find that out and then also find out what is the form of therapy
• 57:12
  that works for me. And so, you know, there is a
• 57:16
  cognitive behavioral therapy, there's regular talk therapy
• 57:19
  that is kind of like the typical one that we always kind of think
• 57:21
  of when we think about therapy. I did, um, 2 that were really
• 57:26
  great. EMDR, which is specific for
• 57:28
  trauma for it's, it's to kind of help you reprocess trauma so you
• 57:32
  can heal from it, which is really great.
• 57:35
  And IRS internal family systems, which I loved, which is really
• 57:39
  better understanding, kind of like they don't use this term,
• 57:42
  but to most people understand, like your inner child, that kind
• 57:45
  of stuff, really understand the different parts of you, what are
• 57:49
  their roles? And again, what is, what's the
• 57:51
  block, what's going on? And so, you know, get interested
• 57:55
  in, oh, there's more than one type of therapy.
• 57:57
  There are. And for me, it was the MDR, the
• 58:00
  IRS that really moved the needle because I was doing talk therapy
• 58:04
  for years before that. And we'd never talked about like
• 58:07
  my childhood or trauma before. And it was still helpful, but it
• 58:11
  didn't for me give me that kind of, I guess, breakthrough until
• 58:16
  he did those other forms of therapy.
• 58:17
  So, so just take a look at what's out there to see what
• 58:20
  might actually be like. Oh, that might work.
• 58:22
  Thank you so much for opening up and like and sharing all of that
• 58:25
  because I think that the gold like takes a village.
• 58:28
  Yeah, lol. But like, but surely I think we
• 58:32
  have to really, I'm just so into really expanding what we see is
• 58:36
  what that village is, whether you're a parent or not.
• 58:38
  This is a parenting podcast. It's like who's in your, who's
• 58:41
  on your board of directors? That's what I say with clients a
• 58:43
  lot. Like who is in that?
• 58:45
  Who's in that for you? And there's, you know, maybe
• 58:47
  your best friend, there's your parents, There's the, I have
• 58:49
  three sisters. I call one sister for one thing.
• 58:51
  I call another sister, another. Thing I got two sisters and they
• 58:54
  have different rules for. Surely your friends have
• 58:56
  different. Ones I send crazy memes to, The
• 58:59
  other one, she's not even on Instagram, so yeah.
• 59:01
  There's always the one sister not on Instagram.
• 59:03
  Exactly. Yeah.
• 59:05
  And it's it's so true. And I love that you're even
• 59:07
  saying, like with therapy, you can diversify your portfolio
• 59:10
  there. And yes, that was it intended
• 59:12
  joke because I'm talking to Jessica Moorhouse.
• 59:15
  Diversify everything. I think it's so it's like the
• 59:18
  people who are like, I go to my chiropractor for everything and
• 59:21
  my chiropractor like heals my inner child.
• 59:23
  I'm like. He didn't.
• 59:24
  Or they really. Trying to hide my eye roll here
• 59:27
  but like I got fear. Not qualified to do that, no.
• 59:31
  One thing I mentioned in the book is also be careful with the
• 59:34
  term coach because a lot of people find, oh, you have a life
• 59:38
  coach. I'm like, they are different
• 59:39
  than a therapist. They do different things.
• 59:42
  So if your life coaches therapy using you, you probably
• 59:45
  shouldn't be working with them because they are not qualified
• 59:47
  that believe me, I'm not a therapist at all.
• 59:49
  And I make it very clear in my book.
• 59:50
  I'm like, I'm not a therapist, even though I talk a lot about
• 59:52
  psychology and therapy in this book.
• 59:54
  So don't come to me for therapy because I cannot help you, but I
• 59:57
  can't help you with your money and just exploring other
• 59:59
  aspects. So really know who you're you
• 1:00:03
  want on your board of directors and who is a good fit for that.
• 1:00:07
  Life coaches, I think have a specific like a great role for
• 1:00:09
  certain people, but they do a very different thing than
• 1:00:12
  therapy. They can help you.
• 1:00:13
  Set up your foundation and help you prioritize and and goal set
• 1:00:17
  and things like that. But you know that just, yeah,
• 1:00:21
  just be aware of that. I 1000% and since you say that.
• 1:00:24
  About money coaches too, because there's, I gave those financial
• 1:00:28
  designations and then there's people who call themselves money
• 1:00:31
  coaches. Money coach is not a license or
• 1:00:34
  anything. Anyone can call themselves
• 1:00:35
  somebody coach. And so, yeah, yeah, there's no
• 1:00:38
  regulation or anything like that with that term.
• 1:00:40
  And so again, if you're like, I want a financial plan, I heard
• 1:00:43
  so and so money. I'm like, well, you, you really
• 1:00:45
  should always ask like, what's your background?
• 1:00:47
  What's your experience? What are your credentials to
• 1:00:49
  know if they are qualified to do the things that they're trying
• 1:00:52
  to do? Because you don't want to like,
• 1:00:53
  pay a bunch of money. And you're like, I didn't get
• 1:00:54
  anything. It's like, Oh yeah, because they
• 1:00:55
  weren't qualified to do what they said they could do, right?
• 1:00:59
  And there's a scope of practice. I think it's, I think I just
• 1:01:01
  need to say this. We're running out of time, but I
• 1:01:03
  do since we're talking no, no, no.
• 1:01:05
  I'm like trying to be respectful of your time because you're just
• 1:01:07
  giving so much, so many good golden tickets here.
• 1:01:10
  Me too. This is my we're going to be
• 1:01:13
  fast friends. It's the the whole coaching
• 1:01:16
  thing. So I love I'm gonna put in the
• 1:01:17
  show notes the the certifications that you shared,
• 1:01:19
  because I think it is so important to be prudent.
• 1:01:22
  And I think you're you're so right up with the coaching
• 1:01:24
  thing. Like I've gotten on my soapbox
• 1:01:26
  about this before. I am an international coach,
• 1:01:28
  federation certified coach and went to school.
• 1:01:30
  I went to royal roads. I did it almost yearlong program
• 1:01:33
  for this and I I huge they beat it into us art limitations in
• 1:01:40
  our scope, right, like not to be.
• 1:01:41
  They weren't trying to be negative.
• 1:01:42
  They're just like, know your boundaries.
• 1:01:44
  Yeah. And I think that's the most
• 1:01:46
  important thing that I took out of becoming a certified coach,
• 1:01:50
  an executive coach, is knowing my boundaries.
• 1:01:52
  And I think the problem is when you're working with somebody who
• 1:01:54
  doesn't have any sort of foundation or training of which
• 1:01:57
  they would beat in every designation has a poll, you
• 1:02:01
  know, multiple you. Cannot.
• 1:02:03
  Do what you can and cannot. Do like.
• 1:02:04
  Even, for example, if you have a QFP or CFP, that doesn't
• 1:02:07
  necessarily mean that you're also licensed and qualified to
• 1:02:10
  give investment advice. So right, it's like you're
• 1:02:13
  working with the CFP and they're like, Oh yeah, no, I can manage
• 1:02:16
  your investments. They may not be licensed.
• 1:02:18
  And so you that's illegal and we don't want to do.
• 1:02:20
  That it's terrifying. And I think it's so important
• 1:02:22
  for people to know these things because you're like, oh, but the
• 1:02:24
  person's great. They seem really knowledgeable.
• 1:02:26
  They've been in finance for 25 years.
• 1:02:28
  It's just, it's just, you just have to know.
• 1:02:30
  You just have to be like, it's like hiring a life coach who
• 1:02:33
  didn't go to any sort of school. That's totally fine.
• 1:02:36
  I actually think I've gotten to a point where I think that's
• 1:02:38
  fine as long as you know. What?
• 1:02:40
  You know what you're getting. Yourself, you know.
• 1:02:41
  And what are you bring to the table?
• 1:02:43
  Like I don't think you should talk to them about suicidal
• 1:02:45
  ideation. You absolutely should not.
• 1:02:47
  And if that person, if you are that person's not saying I have
• 1:02:50
  to stop right here. And they should be referring you
• 1:02:53
  to they. Should be referring you out like
• 1:02:54
  that's problematic, right? So just you just have to be
• 1:02:56
  intuitive. You just have to do your
• 1:02:58
  research. Just just know before you go, I
• 1:03:01
  have to ask you couple tips, practical takeaways for the
• 1:03:04
  parent listening who's feeling a bit overwhelmed by money.
• 1:03:07
  They're like they're going to read your book.
• 1:03:09
  They're going to start like really figuring out where their
• 1:03:11
  money stories come from. But today, this weekend, this
• 1:03:14
  month, yeah. What are a few things that they
• 1:03:15
  could just like focus on or do to just feel a bit better or
• 1:03:18
  practically set themselves up? Oh, my gosh.
• 1:03:20
  And we have to talk about talking to kids about money,
• 1:03:23
  too. So if we could wrap.
• 1:03:24
  That I'll try to I'll try to put that all together So first thing
• 1:03:27
  for a practical thing, and I do have a section of my book that I
• 1:03:29
  break down how to create a spending plan.
• 1:03:32
  That's just a nicer word for budget because a lot of people
• 1:03:35
  hate that term budget, which I completely get.
• 1:03:37
  And so if you don't currently have a plan for your money, a
• 1:03:40
  spending plan, money coming in, money going out and what's going
• 1:03:44
  to savings, investments, expenses and tracking your
• 1:03:48
  expenses and your net worth every single month.
• 1:03:50
  That's kind of the three things. Create a spending plan, track
• 1:03:52
  your spending, track your net worth every single month.
• 1:03:55
  Not only, I know that sounds arduous and like I don't have
• 1:03:57
  time for that. I promise once it's set up,
• 1:03:59
  which may take, you know, an hour or two, you don't have to
• 1:04:02
  spend more than maybe an hour, hour and a half per month on
• 1:04:05
  that. And we all have that kind of
• 1:04:06
  time. We can find that time.
• 1:04:07
  If we can find time to do all these other things, we can find
• 1:04:10
  time for that. Because again, this is your
• 1:04:11
  part. I always tell people this is
• 1:04:12
  part of your financial Wellness. It's, you know, financial
• 1:04:15
  self-care. And so when you have clarity
• 1:04:18
  with your money, you naturally become less stressed and anxious
• 1:04:22
  about it because you know what's going on.
• 1:04:23
  Why we get anxious and stressed about money is often because we
• 1:04:26
  actually don't know what's happening.
• 1:04:28
  You're like, do I have enough? I don't know, maybe it's worse
• 1:04:30
  than I thought. And then sometimes, you know,
• 1:04:32
  when I'm working with a client, we'll look at their situation.
• 1:04:34
  They're like, oh, that's not so bad, like, right.
• 1:04:37
  So when you know, if you have that information, it will just
• 1:04:40
  help you feel a lot more grounded.
• 1:04:43
  OK, talking a little bit more about the kids.
• 1:04:46
  So honestly, OK, so I don't talk too much about this in the book,
• 1:04:50
  but I do have a friend of mine who just came out.
• 1:04:52
  She's Canadian. She just came out with a book
• 1:04:54
  called Making Bank. I'd say it is more for like you
• 1:04:57
  give it to your like your teenager, your pre teen and they
• 1:05:00
  learn about money, which is great.
• 1:05:02
  There's no other book that's really about that's like for the
• 1:05:04
  kid, like written for the kid. So that's a great resource.
• 1:05:07
  I'd like to kind of tell you about Shannon Lee Simmons.
• 1:05:09
  She's amazing and she just came out with that book.
• 1:05:11
  But for allowances, that's another thing you again, you
• 1:05:15
  have to do that inner work because if I had like, you know,
• 1:05:17
  there was a time when me and my husband think about having kids
• 1:05:19
  and I'm like, oh, I would never give my kids an allowance.
• 1:05:21
  And the reason I said that was because I never got an
• 1:05:23
  allowance. And it wasn't because my parents
• 1:05:25
  didn't believe in it. But that's what I thought
• 1:05:27
  because that's what they said. They're like, we don't believe
• 1:05:29
  it. They couldn't afford it once
• 1:05:30
  they couldn't afford allowances. And so I thought, oh, well,
• 1:05:32
  that's what pushed me to, you know, be so focused, you know,
• 1:05:35
  ambitious. And I want to start working
• 1:05:37
  early. No, I think allowances are
• 1:05:39
  honestly a pretty great tool to help teach your kids how to
• 1:05:46
  budget early, how to to earn and feel like, Oh well, you know,
• 1:05:49
  get that self, that financial independence and just to learn
• 1:05:53
  the things that most of us never learned in schools and wish we
• 1:05:57
  did and then had to figure it out in adulthood.
• 1:05:59
  If you could teach your kids, you know, how to earn money, how
• 1:06:02
  to put some of it away for saving, some for like, you know,
• 1:06:05
  charitable donations or giving back, some for, you know, just
• 1:06:08
  playing around fund money and some for like your needs.
• 1:06:11
  If you teach them that early on, they will be set up for life
• 1:06:15
  when they are in college and university or as an adult.
• 1:06:18
  And having conversations about money early on, like don't do
• 1:06:23
  what most of our parents did, which is money is taboo.
• 1:06:24
  Let's not talk about it because we know how that ended up.
• 1:06:27
  Like we're all uncomfortable talking about money and it just
• 1:06:31
  kind of, you know, stifled us a bit.
• 1:06:33
  So have those conversations about money and listen to their
• 1:06:36
  questions. And if there is something that
• 1:06:38
  they ask you, like how much do you and mom make and you're
• 1:06:41
  uncomfortable about it, don't just say, well, that's
• 1:06:43
  inappropriate. You shouldn't ask, you know,
• 1:06:45
  just be like they'll listen and give an honest answer, but like,
• 1:06:48
  you know, that's a great question.
• 1:06:50
  It's not really something you know, just find some way to be
• 1:06:52
  like we're not going to share that information.
• 1:06:54
  But what we can share is in this particular role that I currently
• 1:06:59
  have, let's look online the role that that has typically you
• 1:07:03
  could earn between this and this, because maybe your fear is
• 1:07:06
  like, I just don't want him going on school yard and telling
• 1:07:08
  everyone how much I earned. That gets back to the parent.
• 1:07:11
  Yeah, yeah. But.
• 1:07:12
  You know, if like, the parents can easily find out what your
• 1:07:15
  role is, you know they could. You probably already have an
• 1:07:17
  estimate of how much it makes. So just, you know, listen,
• 1:07:21
  encourage questions, and give thoughtful answers.
• 1:07:25
  Yeah, I love that and the and the term like the phrase we
• 1:07:29
  can't afford that. Or trying to get rid of that,
• 1:07:31
  like try to try to because again, that was something that
• 1:07:35
  was in and it's it's I'm still working through in my mind to
• 1:07:39
  tell myself, yeah, you can afford that Jessica, it's fine.
• 1:07:42
  What can you say instead? Such as, you know, that's not
• 1:07:45
  really in our, you know, the goals that we have right now for
• 1:07:49
  money or what we have a specific family budget right now and
• 1:07:53
  that's not really in there at this moment.
• 1:07:55
  But you know what great thing that you brought up that you
• 1:07:57
  want to go to Disneyland. Let's talk about that in the
• 1:07:59
  future. Let's put it on our like future
• 1:08:01
  goals list and keep the conversation going instead of
• 1:08:04
  just saying no, we can't even if that's the truth, we cannot
• 1:08:07
  afford it. What's something else we can say
• 1:08:09
  that's kind of more positive and encourages more conversation?
• 1:08:13
  Doesn't make them feel bad for asking the.
• 1:08:15
  Question. Because it's also, but then it's
• 1:08:17
  not cutting yourself down either.
• 1:08:18
  Like if you're saying no, we, we can, we can't afford that.
• 1:08:21
  People like us will never be able to afford that or people.
• 1:08:23
  Like now that now that's part of your identity and that it's not
• 1:08:26
  something that you can change people like us.
• 1:08:28
  But again, money is so fluid and it's anyone can change their
• 1:08:34
  financial situation. Again, sometimes it's easier for
• 1:08:36
  others and some other people. And there's a big part of my
• 1:08:39
  book talks about privilege, but, you know, I think sometimes
• 1:08:42
  saying, well, we can't afford that right now, or that's not, I
• 1:08:45
  don't even like the forward part.
• 1:08:46
  It's like, well, that's not in the family budget right now, but
• 1:08:48
  thanks for bringing that up. And we'll definitely consider it
• 1:08:51
  and figure out maybe we can make a plan for that in the future.
• 1:08:53
  Because then there's like hope and then you're thinking about
• 1:08:55
  solutions. How can we figure that out?
• 1:08:57
  And maybe they'll, you know, come up with their own idea of
• 1:08:59
  like, oh, you know, if we just did this, this and this, we
• 1:09:02
  could afford that. And that is what you want
• 1:09:04
  because as an adult, you don't want to, you know, be in a
• 1:09:07
  situation like, well, I can't afford that.
• 1:09:08
  Instead of trying to find what's the solution for this problem?
• 1:09:11
  Yes, yes. And it feels like there's just
• 1:09:13
  so much like Doctor Becky's, you know, very prolific figure in
• 1:09:17
  the parenting space right now. It's very much like how can we
• 1:09:19
  use some of her language around like, you know, not using like
• 1:09:22
  really harsh finite, like answers to things, asking
• 1:09:25
  questions and like exploring like at their level, age
• 1:09:28
  appropriate. Yeah.
• 1:09:29
  How to talk about these things and like it's like the thing
• 1:09:32
  that we're learning now. We're like you could have
• 1:09:34
  arguments, say in front of your children, if that is the way
• 1:09:38
  that you communicate with your partner, for instance, but but
• 1:09:40
  tie it up. So if like you have financial
• 1:09:42
  discussion with a partner in front of your kids, wrap it up
• 1:09:46
  in a in a positive, affirmative way versus being like, you know,
• 1:09:50
  throwing. It's all easier said than done.
• 1:09:52
  But yeah, these are just things that I think work really well
• 1:09:55
  together. Yeah, and just yeah.
• 1:09:56
  Think back of what did I not like about money when I was
• 1:10:00
  growing up and how could I do something differently as a
• 1:10:03
  parent now? Yes.
• 1:10:05
  OK, Jessica, I asked this to everybody.
• 1:10:07
  I have to ask you now what is something?
• 1:10:10
  And every time I'm like, there's, there's got to be
• 1:10:12
  nothing. There's nothing.
• 1:10:13
  But what is something that you would say you're still trying to
• 1:10:16
  figure out in your own relationship with money?
• 1:10:20
  Hmm, that's a great question. I mean, I don't know if there's
• 1:10:24
  anything particularly new from the stuff that I because I again
• 1:10:28
  went through a lot of introspection for the book.
• 1:10:30
  There's a lot of stuff I'm still practicing.
• 1:10:32
  So I've been like on a lot of podcasts and saying, I know I
• 1:10:35
  say this in the book and guess what?
• 1:10:36
  I'm still working through this myself.
• 1:10:38
  And so, you know, again, a lot of the I'm not good enough, the
• 1:10:42
  negative self talk that was very loud before I did all that
• 1:10:47
  therapy and was starting to write the book.
• 1:10:48
  It's not as loud now, but it still creeps up.
• 1:10:50
  And so I always have to catch myself.
• 1:10:52
  So I'm, I'm practicing when I'm preaching, so to speak.
• 1:10:55
  And so I'm a, I'm a work in progress myself.
• 1:10:58
  And so that's what I think that's encouraging for people to
• 1:11:00
  know though, because you know, I'm not, oh, I'm cured, I'm
• 1:11:04
  perfect. No, I'm still working through it
• 1:11:06
  because we're all humans and it takes a long time for us to, to
• 1:11:09
  heal and to change our brains and, and just some of the
• 1:11:12
  thoughts. So, Oh yeah, I'm just, I'm still
• 1:11:14
  working through things, but I'm much happier recognizing the
• 1:11:18
  things I do need to work through and know that oh, things are a
• 1:11:21
  little bit better. It's a little bit lighter now
• 1:11:23
  compared to where I was before doing any of this.
• 1:11:26
  Work and maybe kind of like the spending plan when you're
• 1:11:28
  looking at your finances once a month, like when you're doing
• 1:11:30
  that introspection, I find that it, I can move through things
• 1:11:33
  quicker. Yeah, when I have the support in
• 1:11:35
  the tools and the people in my board of directors, it's like
• 1:11:37
  you're doing the therapy. You still feel the feeling.
• 1:11:39
  But I find I can move through things quicker because I have
• 1:11:42
  the tools. And maybe that's maybe that's
• 1:11:44
  kind of what you're saying too, is you're like, hey, I've got
• 1:11:46
  the tools. I've got the tools.
• 1:11:48
  I don't have them before, but we have to use the tools and we
• 1:11:51
  still have to, yeah, work with them.
• 1:11:52
  Yes, yes, OK, Jessica working everybody find everything but
• 1:11:56
  money. You're beautiful best selling
• 1:11:58
  book that you've got out. Congratulations on that.
• 1:12:00
  And where can they find you online if they want to learn
• 1:12:02
  more from you? Yes.
• 1:12:04
  So my website is, no, it's not everything but money.com though
• 1:12:08
  I think I probably, I think it was smart enough to buy that
• 1:12:10
  domain. I think I bought it just to
• 1:12:13
  redirect jessicamoorhouse.com. If you go to
• 1:12:16
  jessicamoorhouse.com/book, it has a bunch of information about
• 1:12:19
  where you can purchase the book no matter where you are and some
• 1:12:23
  upcoming events that I'll be doing.
• 1:12:26
  So working on some more events that I'll be doing in the
• 1:12:28
  future. You can find me on Instagram at
• 1:12:30
  Jessica I Morehouse. And I also have a podcast myself
• 1:12:34
  that is more money centric called More Money Podcast that,
• 1:12:38
  you know, we talk, we don't honestly talk.
• 1:12:40
  We talk about money, but we don't talk about like how to
• 1:12:43
  money. That's not that kind of podcast.
• 1:12:44
  It really is everything around money, how you feel about it and
• 1:12:48
  just you know, it's, it's a nice, a nice listen just to get
• 1:12:51
  comfortable with money so you can check that out as well.
• 1:12:53
  It really is. And thank you for being such a
• 1:12:55
  force for this topic in Canada especially.
• 1:12:58
  That is what drew me to you initially and why I've been
• 1:13:01
  waiting to find the perfect person to come on this show to
• 1:13:04
  talk about money, but talk about it from a Canadian perspective.
• 1:13:06
  And you're a young woman. We're the same age.
• 1:13:08
  Like it's just it's you're such a breath of fresh air and the
• 1:13:12
  More Money podcast is incredible.
• 1:13:14
  And you can search on podcast apps also, if there's a topic
• 1:13:17
  that you want to explore, it actually encourage you to do
• 1:13:20
  that on Jessica's podcast because that's a really cool way
• 1:13:22
  to do it. But the the book is definitely
• 1:13:24
  this foundational Bible. Just it's a really fun read too.
• 1:13:28
  I was, I'm going to be honest, I also was like, oh, is this going
• 1:13:31
  to be like, like. No 7 habits of highly effective
• 1:13:35
  I love story driven, story driven.
• 1:13:37
  There are some like takeaways, you know, that are really
• 1:13:40
  structured at the end of each chapter because you might be
• 1:13:42
  like, what? What happened?
• 1:13:44
  Yes. Here is the takeaways.
• 1:13:46
  I love books that are narrative first.
• 1:13:49
  And so that's really what it is. And I want it to be that you
• 1:13:51
  pick up this book. I'm not just slamming you with
• 1:13:54
  information. No, there is some information,
• 1:13:56
  but we it's really focused on people and their stories so you
• 1:13:59
  can see yourself and hopefully somebody's story. 100% I feel
• 1:14:02
  like you're like hiding it. You're like hiding the broccoli
• 1:14:04
  in the Bolognese because you're. Likely.
• 1:14:07
  I'm like, oh, I don't. You're not doing stats and
• 1:14:08
  figures and like, here's a balance sheet.
• 1:14:10
  Let's talk about T accounts like.
• 1:14:12
  I don't like books like that. I'm like that myself, so no.
• 1:14:15
  I love a good, you know, narrative.
• 1:14:17
  So yeah. And it's.
• 1:14:18
  Beautifully written near beautiful writers.
• 1:14:20
  So thank you, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on
• 1:14:22
  the podcast. I appreciate you.
• 1:14:24
  Thanks for having me.