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DeSantis World Bore · Pod Save America

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: On today's show, Joe Biden gets pressure to negotiate with
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: the debt ceiling hostage takers. Donald Trump says he might
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: skip the Republican primary debates. Ron DeSantis' gaffes overshadow his
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: foreign trip. Republican supermajorities continue their attack on democracy. And
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: I talked to Montana State Representative Zoe Zephyr about her
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Republican colleagues banning her from the House floor for speaking
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: out against an anti-trans bill. Then, We break down President
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Biden's best jokes at the White House Correspondents' Dinner. But first,
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: fashion's biggest night is here. And just like every other year, John,
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Anna Wintour is sure to make this year's Met Gala unforgettable.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: What is going on?
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: That's what I.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: That's a fun pivot.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: What's happening?
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: But did you know that before she was an editor-in-chief
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: of Vogue, Anna Wintour ran the fashion section for a
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: little-known porn magazine called Viva in the 1970s? Nice.
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: Nice tie-in.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: We used a current event... To pitch one of our shows,
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: and we had a seamless segue.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: It's a really good series. Yeah, it is. It's a
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: great show.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Cricket's latest limited series podcast called Stiffed is what we're
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: talking about here. It's about the rise and fall of
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Viva the Erotic magazine for women that rocked the publishing
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: world in 1973 New York City. With a team of
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: feminist writers and editors behind it and Porn King publisher
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: at the helm, were they always destined for failure? Usually
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: I have a line here about full frontal male nudity,
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: but it's not here today.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: Sorry.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: It's not here today, so. Find out now by listening
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: to Stift, available for free on your favorite podcast platform.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: All right, let's get to the news. We are barreling
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: towards a catastrophic default that the U.S. Treasury now says
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: could come as early as June 1st. House Republicans just
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: passed a garbage bill that has zero chance of passing Congress,
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: even if Republicans controlled both houses. And now the president
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: needs to figure out his next move. Axios reports that
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: there's a divide between Senate and House Democrats over whether
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Biden should negotiate with McCarthy, with over two dozen House
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: members saying he should. Those are Democrats. Senate Democrats, on
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: the other hand, will hold hearings this week to remind
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: people that the House bill would force deep cuts to
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: law enforcement, veterans, families, teachers and kids, including taking health
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: insurance away from 20 million Americans. Just before we started recording.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: It's reported that Biden has just called McCarthy, who's in
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: the middle of an official trip to Israel, and asked
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: to meet with him and the big four. So the
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: leaders of the House, the Democratic and Republican leaders of
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: the House and the Senate. What do you guys think?
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Should Biden negotiate? Is this meeting, does it count as
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: a negotiation? Is it just a meeting about negotiation? What's
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: the best strategy for Biden over these next, I was
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: going to say next few months, but now it basically
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: could just be in the next month.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: So first, it's funny, he's in Israel. It's like, but
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: enough about this intractable dispute. Let's talk about Israel and Palestine.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: First of all, I find all this talk about will
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Biden negotiate? Will Biden not negotiate? I understand why that's
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: the way it's described, because actually, in fairness, everyone describes
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: it that way. Democrats, Republicans and the press. The reason
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: that the reason it is described that way is because
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: it's one of the lessons when in the past, Democrats
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: have agreed to negotiate over the debt ceiling. We feel
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: like we got burned rightly because you're negotiating with people
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: holding a gun to the head of the economy. So
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: now Democrats take pride in saying we won't negotiate over this.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: The press report it that way. And then Republicans get
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: to say, come on, negotiate with us, negotiate with us,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: come to the table, which if you're not paying attention
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: is I think a more reasonable seeming position. The reality
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: is that everyone is negotiating. Saying you won't negotiate over
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: the debt ceiling is a form of negotiation. You're just
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: saying in my negotiation over this issue, I will not
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: move off of this line. This is not a term
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: I'm willing to debate with you. And even Biden himself
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: had said previously, correctly, I'm happy to talk to Kevin McCarthy,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: but we're just not going to talk about the debt
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: ceiling as a pawn in this negotiation.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: What do you think, Tommy?
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think just first of all, I'm genuinely
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: worried about a default. I think it's a real risk.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: I find it so odd that financial markets aren't really
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: pricing it in. Everyone's just kind of bumping along and
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: thinks it's going to be fine. And I know Biden
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: doesn't want a default. I believe McCarthy when he says
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: he doesn't want a default either. But I don't think
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: McCarthy's steering the ship. And that's why I think the
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: negotiation about whether to have a meeting is so silly
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: because Kevin McCarthy is sort of papering over differences in
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: his caucus with this proposal to cut $ 5 trillion in
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: spending over 10 years or whatever it is, but they're
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: not even specifying what cuts they would make. Biden's being
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: asked to negotiate with a guy who's not really in
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: charge of his caucus, who won't lay out what cuts
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: he wants to make. Like, what are we doing here?
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: I think that, um, It was smart of Biden. I
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: think the right move was what he just did, which
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: is call McCarthy for a meeting. I think what he'll
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: probably say is, I'm still not going to negotiate over
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: the debt ceiling. I will negotiate over the budget. There
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: is a budget process that's going to take place. We
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: have to fund the government by the fall. I think
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: the smart thing to do for everyone would be to
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: punt the debt ceiling, do a temporary increase in the
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: ceiling and punt it to past the government funding deadline.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: And then if you want to argue over the budget
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: and shut down the government, no one wants a government shutdown,
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: but it would be a lot less damaging than a
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: catastrophic default that would basically destroy the global economy.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, people should just... So, yes, people should understand. So
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: there's two deadlines. One is sometime in June. It keeps
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: moving around. Janet Yellen just doesn't know how much money
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: she has in her checking. But she's trying to figure...
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: We've all been there. So at some point in June,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: the government runs out of money, catastrophic default. September 30th,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: the current government funding runs out. And so by September 30th,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: they need to negotiate just a spending bill so that
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: the government stays open so that there isn't a shutdown.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: And because the two sides are at a very clear,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: you know, sort of there's no Venn diagram overlap between
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: clean debt limit won't negotiate and no clean debt limit
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: must negotiate. The idea is you punt and you say,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: we will never negotiate over the debt limit, but we'll
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: negotiate over government funding and the debt limit increase will
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: be included as part of that. The challenge is, is
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: one is in June and one is in September. These
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: are not, these people are real deadline freaks. So they'd
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: have to either get this done by June or more
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: likely in good faith, agree to an extension. But Kevin McCarthy,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: as you said, doesn't really have power over his caucus
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: because the only reason he had trouble passing what would
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: be a draconian and destructive spending bill is because for
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: a lot of his caucus, even this didn't go far enough.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: And I think McCarthy, if it was in private meetings
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: with Biden, could probably throw out there, hey, how about
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: a short-term extension or agree to a short-term extension and
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: then make most of his caucus swallow it. A lot
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: of Republicans will vote against it. But if he does,
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Republicans and Democrats, I think that there's a good chance
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: he doesn't lose his speakership just by going with a
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: temporary extension to punt it past the government funding deadline.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: And then Biden can say he didn't negotiate over the
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: debt ceiling because he's doing it in the budget. McCarthy
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: can say they still have the leverage over Democrats to
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: extract concessions and cuts around the budget process, and then
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: everybody wins and we don't all default.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: I just think for the White House's purposes, if you
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: can get past this silly debate about whether or not
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: to have a meeting or a negotiation and get to
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: the substance of what these cuts would mean, which is
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: what Chuck Schumer wants to do, let's talk about means
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: testing Medicare and what that would do to people in
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: this country. Let's talk about the fact that McCarthy wants
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: to repeal all the clean energy tax credits in the IRA,
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: the big climate change bill that just passed. And they
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: want to take away funding for the IRS that actually
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: will make the government money in the long term, right?
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Which is why they've been very reluctant to include that,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: to really spell that out, because it hurts their deficit numbers.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Because it actually would raise money by going after rich people.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: $ 200 million, $ 200 billion over 10 years. Yeah, it takes
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: it also just.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Government shutdowns are terrible things and they cause a lot
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: of harm, but it is nothing compared to the harm
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: of hitting the debt ceiling. And so it does move
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: it back into the realm of normal politics and a
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: kind of normal debate.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: It moves it back into the realm of normal crisis.
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Normal fiscal crisis.
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: If I'm ranking them, it's like bad government shutdown, way
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: worse default, way, way, way worse repealing all the climate
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: change measures we just put in place and watching the
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: planet burn over the next decade. So not a lot
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: of good options here.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I do.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: I do wonder.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: Default might be even worse.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's a default, I think, then.
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: IRA go away. I don't know. Well, you know what?
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: I don't want either.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: And I think we can hopefully avoid either. I do like,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: you know, we were talking about this a couple of
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: weeks ago, whether or not McCarthy passed. So McCarthy passing
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: this dumb message bill and we're just like, it's a
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: message bill, but twist, all the ideas are unpopular. So
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: we passed a message bill that makes us look terrible.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: But whether or not McCarthy passed this, the fact that
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: he did makes him a little stronger. He'd have been
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: much more weak if it hadn't passed.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: He would have had to pass a clean extension.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know that, but regardless, this was always ending
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: in the same place. Whatever is going to pass both
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: the House and the Senate, it will probably pass the
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: House with more Democratic votes than Republican votes. So McCarthy
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: has to be able to propose something on the House
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: side that will not cost him his speakership, but will
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: likely have a lot of Democrats behind it. And to me,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: like whether or not you may get a clean extension,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: but there also might be some other fig leaf or
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: some other thing he gets. something along the lines of
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: what like the Freedom, not the Freedom Caucus, the Problem
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Solvers Caucus is looking, some commission or control on spending
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: or some reduction during the interim or some concession that
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: just gets you out of this impasse into the government funding.
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: McCarthy took the biggest victory lap for passing one bill
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: that I've ever seen, one of the most unpopular bills
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: he could have passed.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: I will say too, I think that if Joe Biden
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: is going to go down the path of, I'm definitely
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: not negotiating over the debt ceiling, which I think is
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: the right option, he should have in his back pocket
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: a unilateral option, whether it's mint the coin, whether it's
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: the 14th amendment, whatever it is, like, because I think
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: we will get closer. We're going to get much closer
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: to defaults that I think than we were in 2011, because,
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: because I don't think that, I think that Democrats were
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: actually willing to allow a Barack Obama to offer some
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: concessions around the debt ceiling in 2011 before we were
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: all burned by it. I think the Democratic caucus at
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: this point will not let Biden do this. Anyway, we'll
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: see what happens. Everyone put your money in your mattresses.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: One person who's been uncharacteristically quiet about the debt ceiling
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: drama is Donald Trump, who made some news at a
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: rally in New Hampshire when he announced that he's officially
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: swapping Sleepy Joe for Crooked Joe.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: Big news.
• 10:42
  Speaker 5: No.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: The real news was when he said he might skip
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: the Republican primary debates altogether. Let's listen.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: But so these debates, you know.
• 10:50
  Speaker 5: Nixon and Reagan and.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Bush, Bush number one, others. No, they didn't debate in
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: the primaries.
• 11:01
  Speaker 5: They didn't debate.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, seriously, you look at the boards and you
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: see these.
• 11:04
  Speaker 6: Things, 1%, 1%, 2%, 1%, 3%. And you're looking at
• 11:09
  Speaker 6: these numbers and I'm and I'm we're at 60 and 70%.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Why would you do that? You want intelligent people, don't you,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: to be running your country?
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: So obviously, if Trump skipped the debates, it would be
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: terrible for the content business. But would it be smart
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: for Trump?
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: Do you guys think he's really threatening to skip debates
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: or is he just using this for leverage to get
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: the venue, the hosts, the time and place he wants?
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: Because normally, I mean, you do often see frontrunners either
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: want to not debate or want to debate less. But
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: Trump is not your standard frontrunner. He is an attention
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: seeker above all else. Like he's a front runner who's
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: currently wailing on Ron DeSantis, his distant, distant opponent all day,
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: every day. So I wonder if he's really going to
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: would skip these events if they occurred, because I don't
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: remember 2016 primary debates that well. But I remember him
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: kind of dominating the conversation and dominating most of the events.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I first of all, so he's doing a CNN
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: town hall to like this next week or next week.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: That's just him.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: But that's just him. But a network he spends all
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: day railing against or saying is terrible, but they come
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: to him with a good opportunity.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: He's going to take it.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: I think it depends on where the polling is. If
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: he's still, if he's looking at polling where he's way
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: up ahead, he might consider not going, but he also
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: might see them do one that he's not a part
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: of and worry that it's good for these guys that
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: he's not there. He also believes he won every debate
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: he's ever been a part of. So I think it'll be,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: I think he is using in his leverage, right? Saying
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: you won't go puts you in a pretty good position,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: but I don't know that Whether he's bluffing or not,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: I think he gets to make the decision as to
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: whether or not to debate if he thinks it's good
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: for him five days before.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: If he was doing this with Joe Biden about general
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: election debates, I would say, yeah, he's bluffing. He's trying
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: to extract some concessions here. I just wonder, like, I
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: think there's very little risk for him in actually skipping
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: these Republican primary debates. Because, like, a couple things. Who
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: in the Republican Party and Republican media... is actually going
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: to criticize him for skipping the debates, except for the candidates,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: the other candidates running. And to the extent they do
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: criticize him, how many Republican voters will actually hear it?
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Like this guy now has, he is an attention seeker,
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: but he gets more attention than any of them. They're
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: having trouble breaking through anyway. If Fox does a debate
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: and he doesn't show up, he's obviously going to do
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: some big rally instead. And everyone's going to cover that
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: just as much as they cover the debate.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: I just think we don't know.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Well, it's funny. It's like part of the reason it
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: seems possible to skip the debate is the same reason
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: none of them has been able to mount a serious
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: challenge yet, which is that if there was somebody with
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: the power and charisma and the political skill to really
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: dominate a debate in a way that would get a
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: bunch of good news cycles, yeah, you probably should be worried.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: But Ron DeSantis, I mean, this guy has the cadence
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: of a phone book. I mean, he's just not very good.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: The risk is like Christie, Chris Christie actually runs and
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: he does what he did to Marco Rubio, which is
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: throw a few hard punches and kind of get Trump
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: in a tough spot. Now, yeah, like, right. He has
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: to get in. He has to be serious about running. Actually,
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: he has to try hard for that to happen.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then I think it's like, and Trump's probably
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: thinking to himself, if Christie's going to come after me,
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Do I want to be on the debate stage when
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: he comes after me? Or do I want to just
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: be at another rally and then I heard that he
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: went after me?
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: These guys, though, they're now all right. It's like Nikki
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Haley going after DeSantis. These guys think if they punch
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: each other hard enough, it'll hurt Trump.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: They are the worst. It's wild. Once again, we just
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: have the worst.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: It's so embarrassing. Debates are the best place, though, to
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: get your opponent sick with the deadly disease.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: It's a great venue for a contagion.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe if he gets a new strain of COVID,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: he'll show up.
• 14:54
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: Or maybe that'll blow him off. Catches the Zeta strain.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Trump also just got a notable endorsement. Montana Senator Steve Daines,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: a close ally of Mitch McConnell, who's also in charge
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: of winning back the Senate for Republicans in 24. Why
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: do you guys think Daines is backing the guy who
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: lost the Senate for Republicans in 2022?
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: There's a really funny interview where somebody asked John Thune.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: About why they would do that when this guy always
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: attacks you and probably costs you the Senate.
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: And he's like, boy, I don't know.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: You have to ask somebody else. He did make the
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: point that Daines is looking for allies anywhere and get it.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: Trump in your tent, pissing out or outside your tent,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: pissing in. I don't know what else you're supposed to do.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Trump pisses wherever he pleases. He's got to go.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: He's got to go.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: He's going to piss in the tent, outside of the tent, everywhere.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: He's going to piss everywhere. He's not famous.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: It's why he wears a diaper.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: He's got to pee all the time and he's not
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: really good at holding it in.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: It's funny. Like, listen, first of all, let's just be
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: clear that no one gives a shit about Steve Daines
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: in this room or outside of this room. But there
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: are all these reports in Washington that are like, how
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: could he do this to Mitch McConnell? It's like, guys,
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: if there's anything Mitch McConnell understands, it's entirely cynical political maneuvering.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: And if Steve Daines thinks this is going to help
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: him in Montana or helps him sort of keep Trump from,
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: you know, running Herschel Walker again, sure, he'll give it
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: a whirl. Right.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he can try. It's not going to work. And
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: I guess, and reportedly McConnell told Daines it was fine
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: to go to do it. So of course he was
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: being cynical. But I do think now that like Democrats,
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: it's going to make it easier for Democrats to label
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Republican Senate candidates as Trump approved MAGA candidates because now
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: Daines and Trump are working together. I'm sure the DSCC
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: was so happy to hear this.
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: I'd say, yeah, the biggest, the gift of Steve Daines.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: I would say that, you.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Know, the new Rick Scott, the new Rick Scott.
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump and staircases are the worst things to happen
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: to McConnell this year. Jesus.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: What else we got?
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: We wish you well. Trump's main competition for the nomination
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: just got back from a foreign trip that generated what
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: I'm sure the exact headlines his team wanted. Here's one.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: Ron DeTedius. DeSantis underwhelms Britain's business chiefs. And DeSantis' overseas
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: trip overshadowed by fight with Disney, which of course reminded
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: me of our all-time favorite clip from a candidate's foreign trip.
• 17:07
  Speaker 6: Governor Romney, do you have a statement for the Palestinians?
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: What about your gaffes?
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: Governor Romney, do.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: You feel that your gaffes have overshadowed your foreign trip?
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: It's the best.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: What about your gaffes?
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: I'll never not laugh at that. I can't.
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: I can't. We should say that's Ashley Parker.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: Congratulations.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: She's having a new baby.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: New mom.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: Baby girl, I believe.
• 17:26
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: Congratulations. Great stuff.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Still, it's just Ashley has gone on to do outstanding reporting.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: Excellent reporter.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: But that's still one of my favorite Ashley clips of
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: all time. Tommy, did Ron DeSantis' gaffes overshadow his foreign trips?
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: Yes, they did. The readout, like the nicest thing someone
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: said about him in the meeting of British leaders was
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: like he came across well. But the second nicest was
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: he was fine. Here's some of the other quotes about him.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Looked bored. Stared at his feet. He looked spent. Message
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: wasn't presidential. He was horrendous. There wasn't any stardust.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: There wasn't any stardust is such a funny... I was
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: trying to think about this.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: There are definitely similar culture war fights that happen in
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: British politics and US politics. And Boris Johnson was more
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: than happy to push racism and go after the trans
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: community and do all the things that we hear from
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: a lot. But imagine explaining to someone in a foreign
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: country why a politician is picking a fight with Disney.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: It must be so confusing to them.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Which is popular not just in the United States, but
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: all over the world.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: Globally.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: It might be one of the most popular companies in
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: the entire planet.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: Well-known and beloved brands, yeah. It's like, what? That's what
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: you do?
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Also, there's just something about the way DeSantis is going
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: about this. Like, I must establish my foreign policy bona fides,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: and so I'm going to go on a foreign trip,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to talk to all the important people
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: in other countries.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: Like, what planet are you on?
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Also, Ron DeTedius was just sitting right there for Donald Trump.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: It's better than DeSanctimonious or DeSanctus now.
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know. None of them are great. None of
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: them are great.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: I still like Pudding Fingers.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: I like Pudding Fingers as well.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: I'm a Pudding Fingers guy.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: Sure. DeSanctus also went to Israel when they're in this
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: sort of massive fight over the future of their democracy too.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: And he just sort of walked right into it.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: What was he doing in Japan? Japan. Dan and I
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: were trying to figure that out Thursday.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: He went to Japan, South Korea, the UK, and Israel.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: And I think in Japan, at least he got a
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: head of state meeting. Historically, I think the conservative party
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: there and the US conservatives have gotten along. I think
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: the Asia swing is like, hey, look how tough I
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: can be on China and talk about defense spending. And
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: then you go to the UK to, I don't know,
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: stand in front of Big Ben and take a pretty picture.
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: And then you go to Israel to make the evangelicals
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: like you. None of it went perfectly. No, I would
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: say not.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: His super PAC is also running a new 60-second quasi-announcement
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: ad called Winner in the early states and nationally. Here's
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: a clip.
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: When the world lost its mind, when common sense suddenly
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: became an uncommon virtue, Florida was a citadel of freedom
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: for our fellow Americans. Our rights are not granted by
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: the courtesy of the state, but are endowed by the
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: hand of the Almighty.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Florida is where woke goes to die.
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: We insist on the restoration of time-tested constitutional principles so
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: that government of, by, and for the people shall not
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: perish from this earth. We will stand firm in the faith.
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: We will be courageous. Here I stand.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: I'm not backing down.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: His voice is so annoying. So annoying.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: I went to Disney World and they didn't clap.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: He's so shrill.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Tommy, you just returned from the free state of Florida?
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: I did, I did. Did you find any woke there
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: or was it all dead?
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: Well, you guys were.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Just corpses of woke on the side of the road.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Just Goofy's dead body.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: You guys are palling around with elites in Washington. I
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: was with the salt of the earth.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: That ad.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: So like, it's a bunch of cuts of kind of
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: a mediocre Ron DeSantis speech. And then they cut images
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: of people watching Ron DeSantis speak. So my takeaway was
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: like Ron DeSantis really likes to watch himself speak. And
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: then it's 100% assumed knowledge.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: They were also, they were watching, again, this is an
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: audio medium, so you're not seeing it, but they were
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: watching Ron DeSantis speak with frames on the wall of
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: headlines that just say, DeSantis is a big winner.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: And then one guy's just watching on his phone. Like,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: that's the best image you can find? It is really interesting, right? Like,
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know who this ad is for. It's not for,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: it is a very specific, where woke goes to die. Like,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: you don't know what that means if you're not really
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: paying close attention. So this is an ad for, like, really, really...
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: It's for Trump voters.
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: Trump voters. Super engaged. Super engaged voters.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: DeSantis curious.
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: But even some of those voters, like when you say
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: when common sense suddenly became an uncommon virtue, Florida was
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: a citadel of freedom. How, Ron? You never tell us.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: You're talking about COVID, I assume. Yeah, I know.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Our brains are broken by politics, so we know.
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: We know.
• 21:56
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: Tell the voters.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: So just one thing else. At the end of the ad,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: someone puts a DeSantis sticker over a Trump sticker.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: But as I was looking at it, though, it's like,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Big man, the only time you're willing to take on
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Trump is when someone in your super PAC does it
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: with a sticker.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they can't hear it. There's not any words that
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: say it. It's just an image in the ad.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: It is just like, man.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: putting a sticker over another sticker is not tough.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: It's embarrassing.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: If you're not actually gonna say those words out loud,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: you have to put the sticker over Trump in the
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: actual world, day to day. Yeah, listen, I'm a little
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: closer to this than you guys are, because.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: I did have a- You were on the ground Florida correspondent.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: I did have an Uber driver who had recently driven
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: one of Tucker Carlson's relatives while I was in Florida.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Tom Friedman Vitor over there.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Look at this.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: What's the word on the street, Tommy?
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: The word was Lily Poulter. Anybody hear anybody talking about
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: politics on your jet ski?
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Well, I was going to say that Ron DeSantis, the
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: Calvary is coming, though, because in the Wall Street Journal today,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: there's an op ed by one Mark Penn headline. Don't
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: count Ron DeSantis out. And the advice that Mark Penn
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: gives to Ron DeSantis is basically become 1990s era Bill Clinton.
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: He says the governor needs to shift from being the
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: king of anti woke pro lifers to to being a
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: responsible leader of character and competence who can fix the
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: budget and right the economy. Like, this is why Mark
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Penn is such a fucking idiot. What about the Republican
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: primary electorate makes Mark Penn think that that's what they want?
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: A responsible leader of character and competence who can fix
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: the budget. Who's clamoring for that?
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: Nobody.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: No labels.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Bring me the head of Elsa.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: That's what they're saying.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: So Florida and other red states are apparently also places
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: where democracy goes to die. In Missouri and Ohio, Republican
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: supermajorities are trying to make it harder for voters to
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: pass their own ballot measures and constitutional amendments to do
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: things like protect abortion access, allow workers to unionize, undo gerrymandering,
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: raise the minimum wage. In Iowa, Republicans are trying to
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: take away the power of the only statewide Democrat left
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: in office, Auditor Rob Sand, also known as Tommy Vitor's doppelganger.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: And in Montana... Republicans voted to block Representative Zoe Zephyr,
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: the state's first openly transgender legislator, from entering the House
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: chamber because she criticized a bill that would restrict gender-affirming
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: health care. I'll be talking to Representative Zephyr in just
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: a bit. Obviously, these are very red states, but do
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: you guys think these moves could backfire for Republicans?
• 24:33
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: I think in the Ohio case, the question is, can
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: you educate people? people enough about the fact that this
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: is a measure to make it harder to pass a
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: measure in the fall to protect abortion access in the state.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So people know because we should help out if
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: you can, especially if you're listening in Ohio. Grassroots activists
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: in Ohio were trying to put a ballot measure on
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: the ballot for 24 that would protect abortion access in Ohio.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Republicans in the legislature are like, we're going to change
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: the law so that the only way for a ballot
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: measure to pass is instead of having a majority pass it,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: you need 60% of voters to pass it, thinking that
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: there's not 60% who want to protect abortion access, but
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: there's probably somewhere between 50 and 60%. So they're doing
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: that in Ohio. In Missouri, they're saying that you can't
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: put a constitutional amendment on the ballot unless five of
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: eight congressional districts approve, and the congressional districts are all
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: so gerrymandered that that would require all deep red congressional
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: districts to approve.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: So basically what that means in Missouri is it's 50-50
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: if you're a Republican, but whatever, 57 if you're a Democrat,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: because you won't win all those districts. I will say,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: I do think it's a little bit of be careful
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: what you wish for, because if they don't think abortion
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: is 60-40 in Ohio, they should probably figure out why
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: they think they're so much more Republican than Kansas, because
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: in Kansas, abortion was, it was a 60-40 issue. And
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: if it's a 60-40 issue in Kansas, it's a 60-40
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: issue in Ohio. So like, So, you know, we need
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: to fight this thing. But also, like, they want to
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: raise the threshold.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: That's fine.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: But I don't think that would mean that Democrats are out.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: But also, in order to raise the threshold, I should
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: have said that has to be a ballot measure. And
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: so that has to pass. And that's going to if
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Republicans pass it through the legislature, that will be on
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: the ballot in August of 2023. So the challenge will
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: be getting people to come out to vote for what
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: seems like a technocratic ballot measure that's about raising a
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: threshold to 60 percent, when in reality it's It's about
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: telling people in Ohio, if you want to protect abortion access,
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: if you want to make sure that this isn't a
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: right-to-work state and let people unionize, if you want to
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: raise the minimum wage in the future, Medicaid protection, anything
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: that might come in the future, you have to go
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: out and defeat this. And so that's going to take
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: a lot of organizing.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going to have to become a very similar
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: to the Wisconsin Supreme Court race, a campaign to educate
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: the majority in Ohio that would surely want to protect
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: their ability to pass those measures by 50.
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: Hopefully, you can convince more people or more easily convince
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: them that changing the rules in the middle of a
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: game is unfair and a ridiculous thing to do. But
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: there is this broader extremism narrative that's happening in states.
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: I mean, you mentioned some of these things. We talked
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: about the six-week abortion ban in Florida that's wildly unpopular.
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: I barely understand what's happening in Missouri because the way
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: it's been reported. But Missouri is now telling adults that
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: they have to go through 18 months of therapy before
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: they can receive gender-affirming health care. Not kids. not teenagers,
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: grown adults. The state is telling you, you can't get
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: healthcare you want. Now, I'm sure a lot of women
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: listening are like, yeah, that's what they've been doing about
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: abortion rights for many years. This is not new to us.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: But in that instance, I think the Republicans would make
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: a political argument that they're talking about the viability of
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: a fetus and not the individual receiving the care. In
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: this case, you're just telling an adult, you can't get
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: a surgery you want. Well, they've been doing that too.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: I mean, don't say gay in Florida.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: They lied and said, oh, this is just about kindergarten
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: or third grade and you liberals are crazy. And then
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: it's now all the way up through high school. And
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: then Rob in Iowa, right?
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: So he's the only statewide elected official in all of Iowa.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: He's really good at his job. Before he was elected
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: to be auditor, he was prosecuting white collar financial crimes,
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: including this wild conspiracy to rig the lottery. That was
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: really interesting. You can read about. But so the Republican
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: governor of Iowa hates Rob Sand because he released a
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: report detailing how her office had misspent about a half
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: a million dollars in federal money. So they're changing the rules.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: The Iowa Republicans are passing a law to limit what
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: information he has access to him.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: Which is his job. He's the auditor.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: And to require him.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: To get permission from the agencies he's trying to audit
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: before he can audit them. So these Republicans in the
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: Iowa House are proactively pro-fraud, waste, and abuse. That's the message.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: I do think that It's both the right thing to
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: do and the smart thing to do for national Democrats
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: to start lifting up these examples and weaving them together
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: in a narrative. Because basically the argument is when you
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: give Republicans full control of government, this is what happens.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: They don't just pass bad legislation. They don't just pass
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: legislation that takes away your freedom to choose, your freedom
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: to read the books you want, etc. They take away
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: your freedom to be heard, to be represented, to choose
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: your representative. To change the laws.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: Rig the game.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: It's really extreme. And I think you get a big
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: coalition of people against that.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: And Biden's been doing this a little bit. I mean, he,
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: you know, by inviting the Tennessee reps to the White House,
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: lifting up their story about how, you know, they were
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: thrown out of the body for protesting or standing with protesters.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: I think it's telling a broader extremism story.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Politico has a great piece about how Biden and the
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Democrats are planning to make the red state book bans
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: central to the 24 campaign. You guys think that's a
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: smart move?
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: It polls insanely well.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: No.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: The book ban is a symbol of this sort of
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: larger extremist tendency and this anti-democratic tendency. It's just everyone agrees.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: And we've been talking about this for a very long time.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: These Republicans got themselves into a bit of a moral
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: panic and a bit of a mania, and they went
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: way too fucking far across the board. And they talk
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: only to each other. We hear so much about the
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: liberal bubble, the conservative bubble. has led all these guys
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: to embrace, and it is mostly guys, these incredibly unpopular positions.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: And they walk around like they're the antidote and they're
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: the ones representing some real and true America. What Ron
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: DeSantis is doing is really unpopular. But banning books, telling
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: people they can't serve, they can't come and do their
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: jobs as representatives, telling teachers what they can teach, these
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: are all incredibly unpopular positions.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: The book bans are such an easily accessible way to
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: understand just how extreme these attacks are. Because even if
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: you're not like if you don't pay attention closely to politics,
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: if you don't follow political news and you just hear
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: that someone's banning a book that doesn't seem like an,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: any kind of an offensive book, you're going to be
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: pretty pissed. What are these people doing? Even if you
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: don't care that much about politics and you hear about
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: book bans, you're going to be pretty pissed. Like you're
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: going to, cause what you're going to start saying is
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: these fucking people are weird.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: They're weird. And like, this is what they're focused on.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: Like I don't, I live a life. I look at like,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: it actually is to me that it's the, You know,
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: sometimes I think Democrats, you know, we go on, we
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: make this case, these Republicans, they're extremists, they're a threat
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: to democracy, they're fascist, they're authoritarian.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: I agree with all that.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: But you go outside and the birds are chirping and
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: the sun is shining and we don't feel like you
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: live in some fascist and dangerous place. This is the
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: opposite of that. These guys are running around saying that
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: gay people are going to come and they're going to
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: fucking come and they're going to groom your kids at
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: a drag bunch. What are you talking about? What are
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: you fucking talking about?
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: You might talk about this later in the interview, but
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: there was a Montana state rep who suggested she'd rather
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: risk her child committing suicide than letting her transition.
• 31:47
  Speaker 6: I know.
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: Like, if that's not the most outrageous example of extremism
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: and bigotry and hatred you could possibly lift up to
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: make a political argument against his party, I don't know
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: what is.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: It's wild. Well, we'll be talking more about that and
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: everything else that's going on in Montana after this. We'll
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: have State Representative Zoe Zephyr join us on the pod.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Joining us now, the Montana legislator who Republicans silenced and
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: then banned from the House floor for the crime of
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: speaking out against anti-trans legislation, State Representative Zoe Zephyr. Representative Zephyr,
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: welcome to Pod Save America.
• 32:30
  Speaker 6: Thank you for having me. Happy to be here.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: So for people who don't know, can you talk a
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: little bit about the piece of legislation you originally spoke
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: out against?
• 32:41
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I was speaking out against the governor's amendments to
• 32:44
  Speaker 6: Senate Bill 99, which is a bill banning gender affirming
• 32:47
  Speaker 6: care for trans youth in Montana. That care began with
• 32:53
  Speaker 6: disallowing state resources or state facilities to advocate for things
• 32:57
  Speaker 6: as simple as social transitioning, which is like allowing a
• 33:00
  Speaker 6: child to cut their hair short, grow it long, go
• 33:03
  Speaker 6: by a different name or pronoun. Then it also banned
• 33:06
  Speaker 6: things like puberty blockers or hormone replacement therapy, which it's
• 33:10
  Speaker 6: important to note at that juncture that this is health
• 33:15
  Speaker 6: care that is done in conjunction with a child's parents,
• 33:18
  Speaker 6: with a therapist, with their doctor, in accordance with the
• 33:21
  Speaker 6: guidelines by every major medical association in our country. So
• 33:25
  Speaker 6: it banned that care as well.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: And then how did your Republican colleagues respond to your criticisms?
• 33:35
  Speaker 6: So they responded, I think, via their majority leader, the
• 33:38
  Speaker 6: way we responded when someone feels like they didn't like
• 33:43
  Speaker 6: a particular comment. The majority leader stood up and said,
• 33:47
  Speaker 6: you know, that comment is uncalled for. And off they went.
• 33:51
  Speaker 6: We've done that when they have said a variety of
• 33:54
  Speaker 6: things around hot button issues, including when Republican colleagues have
• 33:59
  Speaker 6: insinuated that my existence itself is somehow sexualizing children.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: And so how did it deteriorate from that to them
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: banning you from the floor of the legislature?
• 34:15
  Speaker 6: So that evening, the Montana Freedom Caucus, which is a
• 34:19
  Speaker 6: state chapter of the National Far-Right Freedom Caucus, put out
• 34:23
  Speaker 6: a letter in which they intentionally misgendered me. And in
• 34:28
  Speaker 6: that letter where they did that, they also claimed that
• 34:32
  Speaker 6: For civility and discourse purposes, I needed to be censured.
• 34:36
  Speaker 6: And the following day, the speaker asked if I would
• 34:41
  Speaker 6: retract or apologize for my remarks. And I said, I
• 34:44
  Speaker 6: spoke to the real harms. I stand by my statements.
• 34:47
  Speaker 6: These bills kill my community. And that evening, he told
• 34:52
  Speaker 6: me he would no longer recognize me going forward. And
• 34:55
  Speaker 6: when I tried to speak on the next bill on Thursday,
• 34:58
  Speaker 6: April 20th, he refused to recognize me.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: And so your comment was that bills like this have
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: been shown to lead trans youth to take their own lives.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: And because you said that, they thought that it was
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: right to ban you from the legislature.
• 35:19
  Speaker 6: When we talk about legislation, it's important to acknowledge that
• 35:25
  Speaker 6: legislation like this, anti-trans legislation that bans our art, Art forms,
• 35:30
  Speaker 6: bans our books, histories, allows people to be cruel to
• 35:33
  Speaker 6: us in schools or takes away our health care. They
• 35:36
  Speaker 6: create conditions of daily life that make it incredibly difficult
• 35:42
  Speaker 6: for trans people to have the joy and sort of
• 35:46
  Speaker 6: meaning that comes when we're allowed to have access to
• 35:48
  Speaker 6: those things. And so when I spoke to these harms,
• 35:52
  Speaker 6: I was talking about not just the statistics. And we
• 35:55
  Speaker 6: know that trans youth who access gender-affirming care have a
• 35:58
  Speaker 6: 73% reduction in suicidality. But I was talking about real impacts.
• 36:02
  Speaker 6: People in my life who I'd lost to suicide. Montana
• 36:05
  Speaker 6: families who had called me. There was one ER doctor
• 36:08
  Speaker 6: who wrote us and said they saw a trans teen
• 36:12
  Speaker 6: came in for a suicide attempt. And in their discussion
• 36:15
  Speaker 6: with that trans teen, the teen kept saying, my state
• 36:19
  Speaker 6: doesn't want me. We heard examples of a trans teen
• 36:22
  Speaker 6: who attempted to take her life while watching a hearing
• 36:27
  Speaker 6: on one of these anti-trans pieces of legislation. And when
• 36:31
  Speaker 6: I spoke, I was talking about those kinds of things,
• 36:34
  Speaker 6: the real harm that this legislation brings to real Montanans.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: You decided today to file a lawsuit with the ACLU
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: challenging your censure. How do you feel about your chances
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: of winning?
• 36:48
  Speaker 6: You know, I think it's really clear that to target
• 36:54
  Speaker 6: me for my speech and debate on the House floor
• 36:57
  Speaker 6: is a violation. my first amendment rights, but more importantly,
• 37:03
  Speaker 6: when the speaker chose to no longer recognize me, what
• 37:09
  Speaker 6: he was doing is also taking away the voice of
• 37:12
  Speaker 6: the people who elected me. He was undercutting the very
• 37:16
  Speaker 6: first principles of our democracy, which says we have the
• 37:20
  Speaker 6: right to democratically elected representatives. We send them to go
• 37:26
  Speaker 6: to their legislatures and their capitals to speak on our behalf.
• 37:29
  Speaker 6: And so to me, I think, you know, I feel
• 37:32
  Speaker 6: like there's a good chance that the courts will recognize
• 37:35
  Speaker 6: this for what it is, which is unconstitutional and quite frankly, anti-democratic.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: I'm curious, what's been the reaction among not only your
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: colleagues and your constituents, but people throughout the state of Montana?
• 37:50
  Speaker 6: There has been, I think, two parts. One, a little
• 37:54
  Speaker 6: bit of shock and frustration that they would actually go
• 37:58
  Speaker 6: as far as to undercut our democracy, to silence someone
• 38:04
  Speaker 6: who opposed their legislation. But I think people also see
• 38:08
  Speaker 6: that the world turned its eyes to Montana in this
• 38:13
  Speaker 6: moment and saw this move for what it was, saw
• 38:18
  Speaker 6: it as an attack on democracy. And the vast amount
• 38:22
  Speaker 6: of people who have recognized that, I am getting emails
• 38:25
  Speaker 6: and text messages and DMs not just from progressives, not
• 38:31
  Speaker 6: just from senators, I'm getting conservatives coming to me and saying,
• 38:35
  Speaker 6: you know what, I typically disagree with you, or maybe
• 38:38
  Speaker 6: I even would have voted for that bill. Or, you know,
• 38:41
  Speaker 6: military vets all saying, but listen, despite all that, I
• 38:46
  Speaker 6: see this for the attack on our democracy that it is.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: Republicans have honed in on the trans community in part
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: because they think These tactics will work on Americans who
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: have less understanding of the trans community, perhaps. Do you
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: think that Democratic leaders in general, both in Montana and
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: around the country, have a strong enough message to counter that?
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: Are they doing enough to fight that?
• 39:10
  Speaker 6: You know, I will always say that there is more
• 39:15
  Speaker 6: that can be done in defense of the trans community
• 39:19
  Speaker 6: until the day that we don't see any of these
• 39:22
  Speaker 6: attacks on our communities. So there's always more on that
• 39:26
  Speaker 6: side of things that can be done. But I think
• 39:28
  Speaker 6: what we'll see. is what we saw with gay rights,
• 39:32
  Speaker 6: which is as people come to understand that trans people
• 39:36
  Speaker 6: aren't boogeymen, we're your neighbors, we're your colleagues, we're your friends.
• 39:42
  Speaker 6: As people come to recognize that and more and more
• 39:44
  Speaker 6: people have trans people in their lives, I think we'll
• 39:48
  Speaker 6: start to see these bills fade away because they're not
• 39:52
  Speaker 6: popular already. And the more people come to know trans
• 39:55
  Speaker 6: people and understand us, the less popular they'll be.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: I saw that President Biden just met with the Tennessee Three,
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: the lawmakers in Tennessee who were expelled. Have you heard
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: from the White House yet?
• 40:08
  Speaker 6: I have not, but I also have been in Florida
• 40:11
  Speaker 6: meeting all day today. So if I have, and I
• 40:14
  Speaker 6: don't know, I'm sorry. But no, I haven't heard anything
• 40:18
  Speaker 6: that I'm aware of yet.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: Republicans with super majorities in states like Montana seem to
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: be taking these extreme anti-democratic actions more frequently. Do you
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: think this will generate enough of a backlash to break
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: the super majority in your state? And have you been
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: talking with other Montana Democrats about a strategy to sort
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: of break the super majority in Montana? How do you
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: see that playing out both in your state and across
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: the country?
• 40:43
  Speaker 6: You know, I think what we're seeing is that marginalized
• 40:46
  Speaker 6: groups are who are impacted the most by legislation, whether
• 40:51
  Speaker 6: that's me being targeted by anti-trans legislation, whether that is
• 40:55
  Speaker 6: the Tennessee Three and people coming in and talking about
• 40:58
  Speaker 6: gun violence and the impact it has on their communities,
• 41:01
  Speaker 6: whether it's the American Indian Caucus in my state, who
• 41:04
  Speaker 6: were one of the first groups to come to my
• 41:06
  Speaker 6: defense and they said, hey, this is targeting a trans
• 41:10
  Speaker 6: person in a moment where the far right is targeting
• 41:14
  Speaker 6: trans people. But remember, this is part of a long
• 41:19
  Speaker 6: trend of targeting marginalized communities and lashing out when they
• 41:26
  Speaker 6: rise up in defense of their community. So people are
• 41:30
  Speaker 6: starting to see that. And I think there is a
• 41:33
  Speaker 6: path forward to move away from this kind of legislation.
• 41:37
  Speaker 6: But it starts with people recognizing the attacks for what
• 41:41
  Speaker 6: they are, that it's not just the policy disagreement. It's
• 41:44
  Speaker 6: an example of what will the right throw away in
• 41:49
  Speaker 6: order to achieve an ideological goal? And what we're seeing
• 41:53
  Speaker 6: in Tennessee, in Nebraska, in Oklahoma, Representative Maury Turner, and
• 41:58
  Speaker 6: here in Montana, is that they're willing to throw away
• 42:03
  Speaker 6: first principles of our country. And that should be concerning
• 42:06
  Speaker 6: to American citizens. And I think we'll see a shift
• 42:09
  Speaker 6: because of that.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: What would you say to trans youth who are living
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: in some of these deep red states and probably pretty
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: scared right now?
• 42:18
  Speaker 6: When Senate Bill 99 first came to the floor, I
• 42:22
  Speaker 6: spoke to the camera and the first thing I said was,
• 42:25
  Speaker 6: please stay alive. And the reason I said that is
• 42:30
  Speaker 6: because I know, I see the polling shifts. I go
• 42:35
  Speaker 6: through the communities. I see the way in which acceptance
• 42:39
  Speaker 6: for trans people is growing across this country. And I
• 42:44
  Speaker 6: know that that will ultimately lead to these bills going away.
• 42:47
  Speaker 6: I know that many of these bills will fail in courts.
• 42:52
  Speaker 6: And so, for example, SB 99 in Montana, it goes
• 42:55
  Speaker 6: into effect on October 1st. I am confident that it
• 43:00
  Speaker 6: will go to court before then. And so what I
• 43:03
  Speaker 6: tell trans youth is understand that, yes, there is cruelty
• 43:06
  Speaker 6: here in this moment. And yes, it is very scary.
• 43:09
  Speaker 6: But we will persevere and we will ultimately, win in
• 43:14
  Speaker 6: the end. And so have faith, keep your chin up,
• 43:19
  Speaker 6: and stay alive.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: Representative Zephyr, thank you so much for joining. What you're
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: doing is courageous, it's inspiring, and particularly so because I
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: imagine these last weeks have not been easy for you personally,
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: and for you to be speaking up not only for
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: yourself but on behalf of your constituents and for Trans
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: Youth Everywhere is... is really admirable. And we're lucky that
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: you're doing that work. So thank you.
• 43:45
  Speaker 6: Thank you so much. It's easy to stand tall when
• 43:47
  Speaker 6: you're on the right side of history.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: All right, before we go, we wanted to play some
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: of President Biden's best jokes from Saturday's White House Correspondents Dinner.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: which is the most important weekend all year, to be
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: seen in Washington, to see and be seen, which is
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: why Dan and Lovett and I, we all made a
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: brief appearance. Tommy didn't think it was that important.
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: He wanted to be with the people.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: We had a great party.
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: We had a party. An event.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: As Shaniqua said, parties have music.
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: Now, I was told that you guys served soup at
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: a standing only event.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Mike O'Neill actually served the soup. He volunteered to ladle
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: the soup.
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: A lot of lessons. Is that a good finger food?
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: We also had to keep Susan Rice out.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Susan Rice was stopped at the door. They said, we're
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: at capacity. And she said, no.
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: Which was awesome. Which is pretty cool.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: And then she got in, which is why you don't
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: fuck with Susan Rice. Shaniqua and our whole politics team
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: did a fantastic job putting on a good event. Our
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: event was cool. The other ones were a lot. You know,
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: that's what we're going with.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: We do not care about the hypocrisy. All right, let's
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: play some of Joe Biden's jokes.
• 45:06
  Speaker 5: After all, I believe in the First Amendment. Not just
• 45:10
  Speaker 5: because my good friend Jimmy Madison wrote it. Call me old.
• 45:15
  Speaker 5: I call it being seasoned. You say I'm ancient. I
• 45:19
  Speaker 5: say I'm wise. You say I'm over the hill. Don
• 45:24
  Speaker 5: Lemon would say, that's the man of his prime.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: I do think it's hard to listen to Joe Biden
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: now and not hear the Tommy AI version of Joe Biden.
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I get that.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: A little easier to understand the Tommy one. Sometimes.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: I did think that, you know, you always hold your
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: breath a little bit when Joe Biden gets up there.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: His delivery was excellent.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: Excellent. Look, I've talked about Joe Biden. Sometimes watching him
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: speak is like watching a, a small airplane in a
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: dangerous weather condition. He did fucking awesome. He was so,
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: I was, he like crushed it. He did a really,
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: really good job.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: He had some good Ron DeSantis jokes. Let's listen to this.
• 46:04
  Speaker 5: At Ron DeSantis, I had a lot of Ron DeSantis
• 46:08
  Speaker 5: jokes ready. But Mickey Mouse beat the hell out of
• 46:12
  Speaker 5: me and got there first. Now look, can't be too
• 46:21
  Speaker 5: rough on the guy. After his reelection as governor, he
• 46:26
  Speaker 5: was asked if he had a mandate. He said, hell no,
• 46:31
  Speaker 5: I'm straight. I'm straight. I'll give you time to think
• 46:36
  Speaker 5: that one through.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: I would say that those jokes... Didn't need the time.
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: Didn't need the time.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: Those jokes go in the category of incoherent but still work.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, I was going to ask you.
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: The first one, it kind of seemed like an example
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: of where you kind of tripping on the joke actually
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: made the joke funnier.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: Because he said, Mickey Mouse beat the hell out of me.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: It should have been, Mickey Mouse beat me.
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: To the joke.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: Right, beat me to the jokes. But that doesn't really
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: make sense. I had jokes about Ron DeSantis... But Mickey
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: Mouse beat me to that. Mickey Mouse hasn't made jokes
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: about Ron DeSantis. Mickey Mouse has made a joke of
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis. It's to me like the joke math.
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: But you gotta love a good mandate joke. It's a
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: classed and oldie but goodie.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: It's surprising to hear a mandate joke from Joe Biden.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: I enjoyed it. It felt like outside his comfort zone.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Really stretching as a comedian.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: I do think these last set of jokes were his best.
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: Let's listen.
• 47:26
  Speaker 5: It's great the cable news networks are here tonight. MSNBC
• 47:29
  Speaker 5: owned by NBC Universal. Fox News owned by Dominion Voting Systems.
• 47:44
  Speaker 5: Last year, your favorite Fox News reporters were able to
• 47:49
  Speaker 5: attend because they were fully vaccinated and boosted. This year,
• 47:55
  Speaker 5: With that $ 787 million settlement, they're here because they couldn't
• 47:59
  Speaker 5: say no to a free meal. And hell, I'd call
• 48:09
  Speaker 5: Fox honest, fair, and truthful, but then I could be
• 48:12
  Speaker 5: sued for defamation. It ain't nothing compared to what they
• 48:19
  Speaker 5: do to me. Look, I hope the Fox News team
• 48:25
  Speaker 5: finds this funny. My goal is to make them laugh
• 48:29
  Speaker 5: as hard as CNN did when they read the settlement.
• 48:34
  Speaker 5: But then again, CNN was like, wow, they actually have
• 48:38
  Speaker 5: $ 787 million? That was great.
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: That was the best joke. So good. Fox always gets
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: it at.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: That speech and.
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: Boys, it turned out well for them over time. Yeah.
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: I was watching the Fox table when he did those
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: jokes and the, uh, the Ducey duo.
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: Is that because you were sitting with Axios?
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: I was home. I got home by then.
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: I saw the Ducey faces too.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they were, they looked annoyed, but then they did
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: laugh at the CNN joke at the end, which is
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: that everyone wins, you know?
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: All their faces are pretty frozen by Botox. You're not
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: going to get much out of any of those faces.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: He had a hard joke about Kevin McCarthy, too. The
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: last time he voted on something that hapless, it took
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: 15 tries of a McCarthy speakership.
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: I was like, all right, Joe.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: I know. It took me a second to get that one.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: I was like, what's he talking about? I was like, oh,
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: the speaker vote.
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: But yeah, he nailed him.
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: I thought he was good. We were talking about this
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: before we were recording. Joe Biden has changed the setup
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: so it's sort of a longer, serious section of tighter
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: set of jokes, and then you close again with more serious.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: And I thought that the... I remember hearing that he
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: was going to do the serious stuff at the top,
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, poor Joe Biden. That's going
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: to be tough to like... It's just tough to transition
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: from something serious to humor. But it actually worked great.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, it was the right thing to do. He
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: spoke a lot about Evan Gershkovich, the Wall Street Journal
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: reporter who's being held captive in Russia and press freedom
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: in general. And he did a great job speaking about that.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: And then the transition... into the jokes was the Jimmy Madison.
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: One, which is perfect.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it got a better, it got a great laugh
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: because it was just the perfect way out of the
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: serious section. There's also just something fitting about Joe Biden.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden, who is this instant, is this like person
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: who like has real, who really values and believes in
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: Washington institutions in an unironic way. Coming back to this dinner,
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: this dinner evolved, right? Over a lot of years. And
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: by the time Barack Obama spoke at it, it was
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: very rote. There was a formula. You get up, you
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: say hello, you tell some jokes, you do a serious close,
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: you go, the comedian goes, everybody goes home, like the scholarships,
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: you get through them. You know, it's like, it was
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: just a, it was very, it was, and sort of
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: then Trump comes in like a fucking, you know, cleansing
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: fire and burns half the like normality out of the city.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: And then some of these things start coming back and
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden, it's sort of fitting that Joe Biden is
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: this sort of creature of Washington who genuinely likes the
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: parts of it that unironically that are, that.
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: We would view as silly.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: Like You get to talk to the people that are
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: on both sides. Everybody comes together. It makes sense that
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: he would kind of treat it in a more serious
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: way and not do the rote formulaic thing of you
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: tell your jokes, you go home.
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: It was a nice arc, too, because he talked about
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: Evan Gershkovich, who's being held in Russia. He also talked
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: about Austin Tice, who has been missing in Syria since 2012. Yeah.
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: And presumed to be being held by the Assad regime
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: for a fucking decade. And but he could say, and
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: Brittany Griner is here tonight. We got her out of Russia.
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: We're going to fight like hell for the rest of them.
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: So that was a nice arc to that story. But
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: to your point, Lovett, about sort of the roteness of
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: this dinner, I mean, it was remarkable reading the coverage
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: of this White House Correspondents Weekend from afar, reading about
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: like the Property Brothers and what's the really popular Bravo
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: reality show?
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: Vanderpump Rules.
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: Vanderpump Rules. And then thinking back to like four years ago,
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: all the sort of like self-righteous White House Correspondents Dinner
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: rebirth stories about how it's now about a real commitment
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: to the free speech. And we had a historian speak
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: this year because we're all so serious. And it's like, oh, yeah,
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: all those problems were solved, gang. Hey, time to get
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: the Bravo crew back. We were there.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: It wasn't any less weird in person.
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: I'm sure. It's a real. There is. Yeah, it is
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: a little bit like.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: A lot of like competitive party hopping and talk. It's
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: just like, oh, it's a it's a lot.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: It's a it's good.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: It's in and out, in and out.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: You know, it's it is, though. It's like if the
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: option is a world, a politics so fucked up. by
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: a right-wing authoritarian president that the city can't do these
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: kinds of things, and one where they feel kind of
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: like they can get away with it. I prefer the
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: one where they feel like they can get away with it.
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: Listen, you nerds, have your fun. Have your weekend. Do
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: whatever you want to do. I was there once. I
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: had a great time. You went more than once. I'm
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: just thinking back to the- You went a couple times
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: in a row. The incredible lesson, we learned our lessons.
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: This was too opulent. We're going to recommit ourselves to
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: the principles that built this dinner in the first place.
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: Narratives from the Trump era.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: I know, I know.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: It's also just sort of like, this is why people
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: hate D.C.
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: I think it's low on the list.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: I would say insulin and housing prices probably higher up
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: than the fact that, I don't know, a fucking Atlantic
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: reporter got buddy-buddy with a member of Congress for five
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: minutes at a bar. I get that people are rightly
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: kind of uncomfortable with the fact that There are people that,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: when the camera's off, treat this like a game. When
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: the cameras are on, they act like they're enemies. I
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: don't love that. But also, the stakes here are not
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: as high as.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: Some people would claim.
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: And I'll see you all, hopefully, at the cricket party
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: next year.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you can snag an invite, it's a
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: hot ticket.
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: I've got to make sure I don't have a wedding
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: over there.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: Don't be in Florida.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Something about Tommy not being there really
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: gave it a good feeling. You guys have the best
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: time when I'm not around.
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: Wisconsin, D.C.
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: Where else have I been left out?
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: I don't know. One more is a trend. I don't know.
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: You better clear your schedule.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: We missed you, Tommy.
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: People asked a lot about you.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: They did. There was a lot of Tommy conversation.
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: We're not going to say it.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: But there was one person who was really interested in
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: seeing Tommy.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: Really interested. Thanks to Representative Zoe Zephyr for joining us today.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: Everyone have a great day and we'll talk to you Thursday.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: Our producers are Haley Muse and Olivia Martinez. It's mixed
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: sound engineered the show. Thanks to Hallie Kiefer, Ari Schwartz,
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: Sandy Gerard, Andy Taft, and Justine Howe for production support.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim,
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: and Amelia Montuth. Our episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: slash podsaveamerican.