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Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: The Monster Is Real Dad's New Girlfriend Kills Baby With Nail Polish Remover · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. There's a period of
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: time when young kids stop being babies necessarily and they
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: become something that resembles a toddler. It's kind of that
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: weird age, you know, and it's so precious. It's precious
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: to see that development of a child as you're watching
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: them grow, you know, your own child, and you know
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: they're they're pulling up on things, and they're what they
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: call it cruising, you know, they're holding onto things and
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: walk around and finally some of them take those early
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: steps in there and it's precious to watch, but oh
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: my gosh, it's terrifying too. I mean, it's it's probably
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: if you never had a small child and you don't
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: know what it's like. There are a few things and
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: it's amazing. You're going to think that I'm crazier than
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: you already think that I am. But sometimes you look
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: around and you say, where's my child because you don't know,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: you don't know where they've wandered off to in your house,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: you know, and so you have to watch them every
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: single moment because you're afraid that something is going to
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: befall them. It brings to mind a case that I've
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: been interested in now for a couple of weeks. I
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: guess it's a case involving an eighteen month old child,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: an eighteen month old child who was so beautiful and
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: so precious, a gift from Heaven, as all children are,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: but something entered into her space that I don't know.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: I guess the only way I could really describe it
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: is malevolent. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is body
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: David sit here, and I'm thinking about my grandchildren right now,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: and even further back, I'm thinking about my kids when
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: they were babies, and I'm thinking about how fragile and
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: dangerous that age is, and how you're you're you know,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: you're just trying to keep them alive, particularly when you're
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: a young parent. You know, you get older and you
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: have grand babies. That's another thing. You know, you're careful
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: with them, but you know that they're not necessarily going
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: to break, but you're always you're always worried because they're
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: so dependent upon you and they're so they're so vulnerable
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: to the world.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: A great explanation about missing them in your own homes
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: eighteen months.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: They are fast. They are fast, you know, it in
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: a closet or under.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: The thing is when they're in the they're usually standing
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: on an old dresser on top of a TV. You
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: hit in there, next to a dresser that has only
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: three legs, and they're standing on top saying hi. Yeah,
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: that's an eighteen month old right there.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: It's it's terrifying. But they're so darn cute. I mean
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: they are, they're they're just so it's such a sweet age,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: you know, because they they still have that amount of
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: baby in them where they want to crawl up in
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: your lap and you can rock them, you can soothe them.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: You know, they're gonna cry, they're gonna they have these
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: needs and you can meet them and all those sort
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: of things such as such a precious time.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: Uh you know that's why this story has the way.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it really has. I I you know, I've
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: often thought about this, you know, when we cover cases
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: involving small children. Just bring them, bring them to me,
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: don't destroy them.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: Think about this story actually began four months before it ended, Yeah,
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: four months before and obviously we're talking about the death
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: of an eighteen month old child named iris Rita Alfara.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: She was eighteen months old four months before she died,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: she had spent the weekend with her her biological father.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: He had hit.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: The biological mother and father were not together as a
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: married couple. They both had moved on. They shared custody
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: shared custody, meaning the mom had custody all the time
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: and the dad had visitation about every other weekend, and
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: she did that. They tended to work out for them.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: After one of her weekends, After one of Iris's weekends
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: with her dad, her mom noticed when she was changing
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: a diaper, some water beads were in her diaper. These
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: are the water beads that are like in a bathtub,
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: you know, the bathing beads some people call them. But anyway,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: she was scared, frightened, what are these beads doing in
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: my child's diaper? And she takes her to the hospital.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: They thought the same thing, What in the world has
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: she done? What is she eaten? And at the hospital
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: they watched not just beads pass through her system, a
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: couple of small batteries, the little batteries you like a
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: watch battery, all right, and a screw like a wood
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: screw also passed through her system into her diaper. Now,
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: when it first happened that these passed. That was a warning. Certainly, hey,
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: something's up. Somebody's either not watching her careful enough. You know,
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: they weren't thinking anything heinous. They weren't thinking this child
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: is having to fight a monster. They were actually thinking, Wow,
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: you know, this child thankfully did not suffer any long
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: term effects from this. So when she did start suffering
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: effects and the she was at her dad's place for
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: the weekend, Dad goes to the grocery store. While he's
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: there at getting ready to pay for his groceries, his
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: girlfriend calls and says, Hey, something's wrong with the baby,
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: and he's like, well, call nine one one, I'm on
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: my way. By the time the rescuers got there with
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: lethargic iris was not really her eyes were fixed. And
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: I've got questions about the way they described her, Joe,
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: because I'm not sure. I'm not knowing the medical terms
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: what it all means. But the bottom line is she
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: died from things that she didn't find on her own.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: She was fed and in this particular case, now, polish remover, Yeah,
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: that would be the best thing to explain it. Now,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: polish remover acetone, is that what.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: It's called yone. Yeah it is.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: That's what killed eighteen month old Iris Alfari.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's horrible stuff. Let me back up just for
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: a second to give you know, to give our friends
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: here kind of an understanding of First off, that first
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: part that we were describing. I don't many people might
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: not be aware of this, but there is actually a
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: condition that adults suffer from, and it's actually referred to
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: as pika and pika p I c A. It's actually
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: a condition where people get fixated on consuming non food items.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: And I think probably one of the most ghastly examples
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: of this is probably Albert Fish, who was a serial
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: killer back I don't know, the turn of the last century,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: I think, and he he would ingest metallic objects like needles, nails,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: all manner things that and but he was he had
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: pika in the sense that it was a sato masochistic thing.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: He enjoyed the pain in his bowel. And that's the
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: thing I got to thinking about this when you had mentioned,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: you know, the batteries are one thing that's kind of
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: a smooth external surface if they're not broken, Yeah, that
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: could be easily passed. The water beads sometimes if those
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: rupture they've got a dehydrating quality to them that could
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: be quite dangerous. But primarily you're worrying about blockages. But
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: the screw in particular troubled me because if you swallow
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: a metal object like that, and as it's kind of
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: passing through, well, obviously it has to make its way
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: to the stomach, and then where the stomach dumps into
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: the small intestine. You know, it has to travel some distance,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: and you're really wondering along the way. If you just
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: imagine you'd mentioned that this was like a woodscrew, Well,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: this is going to be something that has got it's
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: got a very sharp point on it, and it's got
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: despiraling pattern that runs up the side that literally can
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: hang on the mucosal surface of the bowel. Just imagine
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: that just for a second. If it gets in there
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: and it gets twisted, then that means that the bowl
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: rupture perhaps, and all kinds of bad things can happen
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: at that point, and the child has no way of
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: communicating this. I think one of the questions I would
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: have if this was an attempt to take this child's
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: life in some kind of passive way. You know what
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: I'm saying, It's not like, it's not like the child
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: is being beaten to death, but you try to it's
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: almost staging. It is staging. You want to make it
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: look like the kid pick something up, stuffed it in
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: their mouth, and oops, it was an accident and they died.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: I don't think that you can take the full measure
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: of thinking about providing objects for a child to swallow it,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: and how do you get them to swallow it. Did
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: you take a woodscrew and place it into a banana, say,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: for instance, and give the banana to the child, say,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: cut up bits of banana, or maybe maybe you're talking
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: about it's not a finger food. Maybe maybe you're taking
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: something out of a jar, you know, like I don't know,
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: like care it's you know, like puadan carrots, or you know,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: one of these peas or one of these things that's
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: real tacky, and you you place that item in there,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: and then you can you imagine taking that spoon and
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: dipping that out, and you.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Know, your first thought would be if you're a medical
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: person and you see this, your first thought isn't going
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: to be somebody got this baby to eat his screw.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: It's going to be she found some things on the
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: floor and was oh yeah, and just grabbed them and
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: you know, fingers to mouth, right.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. And I have to say,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: you know, if you if this is the issue and
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: you're taking the child to the emergency room to be assessed,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: first off, you're going to do X rays on the
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: child thoroughly. You know, you want to be able to
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: look through get a really good image of the bowel,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: every bit and the stomach to see if there's anything
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: but refer to that's radio opaque in there, because if
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: there's another item in there, and you can find another item,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: I don't most people. You know, there's a lot of
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: talk out there about how and you've probably heard this
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: over the years, about how long the human intestine is. Yeah,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: the small intestine, in particular, large intestine. It sounds counter too.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Large intestine is not as as long as the small intestine.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Small intestine is really compact. It compacted upon itself. It's
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: in loops. We refer to it as loops, and it
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: goes it's feet, I mean just feet and feet and feet.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: So anything that is passing through there, all these little turns,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: all these little awkward positions that it can get in
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: if you've got a foreign object in there, it can
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: get hung up in that gastric mucosa. The surgeon that's
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: tasked with clearing that area out really has hell to pay,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: you know, when you're going by the image, and of
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: course they're going to scope these kids in order to
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: look for it. But it's a very delicate thing because
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: if that tissue is harmed in a particular way, you
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: can actually have something like sepsis that might set in
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: in that area because you don't know if it's if
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: the surface of that bowel is ruptured and then it
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: kind of begins to spill out into that surrounding area,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: you can have all kinds of nasties that set in.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: And you really wonder had somebody actually weaponized food and
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: a little to kill a sharp.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Hey, Dave, I got a question for you.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: You ever been messing around with super glue and you
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: get some of it on the surface of like one
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: of your fingers, and then you put your other finger
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: on the surface of the finger that has super clue,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: and you're sitting there and you're trying to saying, oh
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: my gosh, you know what am I going to do?
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: You know, and there's all kinds of stories of people
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: that have super glue, toilet lids down, and all kinds
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: of stuff. You know from that. Do you know, do
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: you know what substance can be used to free up
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: super glue? I do? Yeah, Actually astone. It's an astone base.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: You know how I knew it?
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: How's that?
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Several months ago there was a story about a woman
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: who used gorilla glue on her hair getting ready for
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: a big date. Ran out of hairspray when used grilla glue, Yeah,
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: and her hands, her hair all got glued together. And
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: so I found out that they used astone. That's how
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: they were able to undo her fingers and hair and
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: everything else. And she wasn't the first one.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Isn't it an amazing stuff we'd come across? I mean,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: it really is.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: But now polish remover works at getting rid of glue.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: It does. I mean, it's it's a solvent, you know,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: and it can you know, you begin to think, well,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: what does that involve? If you've ever been around superglue
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: and you've glued something down and or you've gotten the
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: residue left behind, how are you going to get that up? Well?
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Acetone is one of the ways that you do it,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: and astone is also used is also used UH to
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: remove fingernail polish and if you've ever been around fingernail polish.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: My wife uses it UH and has used it over
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: the years. It's one of I don't like the smell
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: of either one. I don't like the smell of nail polish.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: It makes my head hurt. Acetone is not as heavy
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: in the odor, but it's still you can pick up
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: on the on the on the smell of it UH.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: And as it's being used and generally you're in close
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: proximity to your spouse that they're taking.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: It is strong enough of a smell. You're right that
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: it's not something you would immediately think, Hey, let me
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: taste this.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: No, it's not. But it's much like you know, we've
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: we've had several cases over the years where we've talked
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: about we've talked about antifreeze. Yeah, and you know anti
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: freeze U. One of the dangers of it is that
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: it's actually got a sweet taste to it. You know,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: astone has a sweet taste to it. So if you're yeah, so,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: if you're if you're going to use it in well,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: use the word malevolence but in a malevolent way if
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: you're going to use it to perpetrate a crime like this.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: It's not like you're you're taking hydrochlic acid and pouring
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: it down somebody. Sort you're giving them something that has
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: a sweet taste. And what do kids love? Kids love
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: things that are sweet, so to if you can just
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: imagine what would it take to motivate somebody to say,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: you know what I think I want to do. I
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: want to take an eighteen month old little girl, a
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: little precious baby like this. I'm going to apply her
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: with fingernail polish remover. Gee. I wonder what'll happen well
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: in this particular case. I think, Dave, we have an indication,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: at least at this point that some research might have
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: been done well in regardless to what would be effective
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: in doing harm to someone.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: That's why I wanted to set up the inter relationships
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: here with the parents of iris Rita Alfara, the eighteen
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: month old victim. Here, I wanted you to be aware
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: very early on that she was not living with her
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: biological parents. She lived with her mom full time and
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: they lived with her grandparents. Her dad had already moved
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: on to another woman that he was living with a
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: twenty year old woman named Alicia Lenee Owens. Alicia LINEE
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Owens was there with her the weekend she ended up
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: with all the waterbeads, the three button bat shape batteries,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: and the metal screw. She was there that weekend that
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: these were ingested and when police were investigating, because you've
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: got an eighteen month old girl who is seemingly imperfect health,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: and her dad is at the grocery store and she's
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: at home with her dad's girlfriend, and they get a
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: call that she is has taken ill. And when the
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: emergency crews arrived, Joe, she is awake, she's lethargic, her
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: eyes are fixed, and she's This girlfriend claims that she's
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: a nursing student and has tried to perform chess compressions
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: to help iris because.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: She was not.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Her story was that she was feeding the baby on
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: the bed. The baby cramped and fell off the bed
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: and hit her head and that's when she started acting
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: bad physically ill. That's when the girlfriend calls the dad.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: The dad says call nine one one, he comes home.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: He gets there by the same time the rescue squad arrives.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: They look at her and they take her to the hospital.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Now at the hospital, the doctors are like, no way,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: this just happened. There's something else going on here. This
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: is when they air flight her to at another hospital.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: She dies four days later, eighteen months old, and goes
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: from being a perfectly healthy girl when dad leaves her
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: to go to the grocery store and four days later
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: she's dead, and doctors are saying, there's something more to this,
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: so they begin investigations. The investigation two fold because one
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: she had physical signs of trauma. She did have a
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: hit on her head. She had signs that the doctor
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: said appeared to be inflicted by an adult. It looked
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: like abuse. During the investigation, they found out that Linne
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Owens had been researching on her phone things that could
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: hurt a child every day, Household items that could hurt
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: a child everyday, household items that could hurt Who looks
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: for that, Joe? Who uses their phone to look up
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: ways that things that would hurt a child in the home.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: Not from a safety standpoint.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: No kidding, David, I mean, if you're you know, if
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: you're entertaining a child, say for instance, you've never I
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: don't know, I can't understand what circumstances you would search
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: that out. But let's just say you're going to keep
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: somebody's kids. You whiz, I've never kept a kid before.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: What how can I safeguard my house? I'm looking for
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: things that could do harm to them. But when you
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: get this specific and you begin to look for things
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: that actually might wind up in a fatal event, that's
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: that is a red flag for investigators, and particularly if
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: you do these searches over a long period of time.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: It almost goes from a circumstantial standpoint. You're seeing somebody
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: beginning to put puzzle pieces together toward a goal which
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: they're looking to accomplish here and of course the goal,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: seemingly at this point in tom is the death of
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: this child, the removal of this child from you know,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: this family environment, from you know, her dad. And and
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: because you know, many times in this blended situation like this,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: children can become let's see, how can I put this,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: it's almost children many times become almost like an accessory
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: on a vehicle that the new owner doesn't want, but
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: yet the vehicle can't operate without them. And that's unfortunate.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: But that's really kind of the world that many of
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: us have inhabited throughout our lives. There's a lot of
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: unwanted older out there, and there are people that will
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: do harm to children if given an opportunity, if they
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: can be removed from the equation in an environment. So
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: you have to think, uh, you know, you you kind
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: of let off this conversation by stating, I think, what
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: what is it? There's monsters among us. I think that's
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: what you said. And you know it was.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: The Newsweek Newsweek articles. The headline about this story was
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Monsters do exist.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, monsters, and they do truly exist, and they will
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: go to whatever links possible to uh, to remove whatever
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: an impediment the child might be, or whatever the circumstances
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: to rearrange it so it works through their advantage.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: And that's what you're trying to do. Yeah, you're trying
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: to get rid of the baby, to get out of
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: her boyfriend's life so he wouldn't have anything to do
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: with his ex. That was what it amounted to, or
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: that's my opinion, that's what it did. Put it this way, Joe,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: I had to ask you this, okay, because the doctors
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: now the way she explained it to the medical professionals.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: They show up that the baby was eating on the bed,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: she had a cramp, fell off the bed and hit
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: her head. Doctors at the children's at the children's center
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: that reported this to the police, it's the UPMC's Children's
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Child Advocacy Center. They reported the police that Iris suffered
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: subdural hematoma and bilateral retinal hemorrhages.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: What is that? Okay, Well, you've got when we're talking
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: about a subdural hematoma. Uh, you have got a uh
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: your brain sits inside of a sack. Okay, it's uh,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: it's it's called the dura, the dura sack, and your
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: brain is a wash with cerebral spinal fluid. Okay, so
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: your your brain kind of floats in this substance, all right,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: contained within a sack. The sack along with the fluid,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: acts as almost a shock like a shock absorber or
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: the brain. If you're talking about a subdural hematoma, that
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: means sub obviously meaning below. So if you've got a
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: subdural hematoma, that means that the hemorrhage itself is in
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: between the dura sac and the brain. And what does
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: that do? Will it creates pressure? And if you're talking
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: about this kind of bilateral retinal event, Dave. That's something
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: that we commonly see with shaking baby syndrome, because if
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: you're talking about shaking a child to that point where
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: you're going to inflict not only brain trauma, but also
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: this kind of ocular trauma as well, you've got to
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: have an origin for these points of hemorrhage and that
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: kind of violence shaking that takes place. Now, there's some
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: people out there there's actually been a long running debate
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: about is making baby syndrome a real thing? Because one
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: of the diagnoses that people would make many times is
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: that you would have these children be bilaterally blinded many
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: times because of the rigorous shaking of the child. And
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: when you've got say these optic nerves that are in
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: the back of the eye that lead into the brain,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: sometimes they can be traumatized. The surface of the floor
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: of the skull is very rough, all right, and if
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: it's fractured any way, or the kids are jostled in
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: any particular way, particularly over protracted period of time, you
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: did great harm to the eyes in that area. Not
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: to mention the brain. So you've got the brain with
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: a subdural hematoma where you know that that child, that
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: head is being bounced back and forth all over the place,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: So the little vessels are going to rupture on the
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: surface of the brain and you're going to have this
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: pressure that's going to begin to build up as that
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: blood that focal area of hemorrhage, that clot kind of
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: sets in, and that's going to be problematic. And yeah,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: it would be. It would be glaring, you know, particularly
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: for us at autopsy when her head is actually opened.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: If you have not seen this on X ray, you
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: don't know that it's coming. I've actually had these cases
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: day where we've been in the autopsy room. There's not
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: necessarily any kind of external trauma. Like you're looking at
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: the head, you don't see anything, and then all of
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: a sudden you open up the head and you're taking
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: back the dura and there is a big, big hymorrhage
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: right there, and you're thinking, oh my lord, what's happening here.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: So we've got we've got trauma obviously to the head
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: that is just in and of itself, Dave, that in
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: and of itself is enough to give investigators pause. You've
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: really got a lot sink your teeth into there. But
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: now you've got you've got a child that is not
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: only lethargic, which that can be associated with a head injury,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: but they're not responding. And when they do the lab studies,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: they discovered that the child is going into ketosis, which
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: your body produces ketones naturally. We actually we actually process
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: astone every day in our system. It's kind of this.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: It's it's something that's naturally occurring. It's a byproduct, and
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: we process it. One of the things that aston does
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: is that it creates keytnes, and keytnes are produced I
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: think they're produced in the liver, and so your body
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: is equipped to kind of flush these key tones. You
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: have a spike in keytnes many times with diabetic patients
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: and and they can get in real serious trouble with ketosis.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: And so with her, she's kind of in, you know,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: as pilots like to say, they were in what's it
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: referred to as an unrecoverable flat spin. You've got this
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: kid that is in great diminished physical condition. The staff
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: is scratching their heads. They're looking at this and they're thinking, oh,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: my lord, what can we do to save this child's life?
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: And then, as you said, the admission time was what
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: two to three days in length there trying, they're they're
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: four days. They're trying, valiantly, fighting to try to save
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: this child, and no matter what you throw, no matter
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: what you think at this situation, you're not going to
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: you're not going to save her. And so it's it's
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: really it would be very frustrating, I would think for
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: a clinical physician and certainly those brave nurses that work
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: with these children day in and day out, to sit
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: there and you've got all of this medical science at
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: your disposal, You've got all of these treatments, you've got
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: all of this history and everything, and nothing that you
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: do is going to save this child's life, and you
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: literally just kind of watch them there as they dwindle
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: and dwindle and dwindle until finally they're dead and there's
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: nothing you can go back and do about it.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: In this case, one of the doctors said that based
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: on her condition, that there's no way her dad didn't
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: recognize that something was not recognizable in this child before
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: they called nine to one one because the story was
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: that dad went to the grocery store and while girl
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: friend was watching the baby. Veteran that's when all of
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: this happened, and the doctor was saying it could it
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: had to, there had to be more noticeable stuff going on.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: But when they get her to the hospital, and as
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: you mentioned, they're treating what they see. They're treating what
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: is obvious, but they don't know until after they do
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: the autopsy about the acetone. Is there a test that
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: one would give a baby that they would look would
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: you look for acetone or some type of thing like
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: that that could cause organ failure? Is that is that
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: on the chart of things to look for?
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I guess you're talking about when they're in
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: the clinical phase, uh, in the hospital.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's in the hospital and she's dying. Her organs
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: are failing, and you know, they've got the subdrillhematoma, you
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: got the problem with the retinal era, You've got that.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: But she's not responding to treatment, as you mentioned, And.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: So I think that I would think that probably they're
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: gonna they're gonna suss out this idea of the katosis
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: pretty quickly, uh, and try to determine what the origin
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: is with it, and maybe by the time they get
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: this thing figured out, it's just it's too late. At
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: that point in time, they can't. There's nothing that they
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: can do to stem it. And so you know, for
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: us at the Medical Examiner's office, you know, we have
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: a luxury. You know, in medical legal death investigation. We're
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: not trying to save anybody's life. We're trying to solve
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: a mystery at this point in time. So it takes
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: some head scratching, and it also takes a review of
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: all of the charted material. Everything from the moment that
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: this baby would roll through the door in the emergency room,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: then up to the floor and then she was transported
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: to another location. All of that data would be gone.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Over All the nursing notes, all the doctor's notes, anything
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: any that they would have taken to try to stem
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: this condition. That's all going to be considered at autopsy,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: and then that's going to lead the forensic pathologist at
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: the end of the day, after they balance all of
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: this and they take a look at her tissues certainly
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: post mortem, look at everything microscopically, take all the history
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: and consideration, that's when they're finally going to make this diagnosis.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: And I think that the forensic pathologist finally had a
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Eureka moment, you know, where they said, yeah, this is
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: this is acetone poisoning. And look, this doesn't happen a lot, okay,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: And I don't want to reduce this down to the
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: death of this little angel, down to some kind of
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: academic exercise. But it happens with such rarity that this
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: would this methodology would be something that a forensic pathologist
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: would probably study and actually publish a paper on. That's
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: how you know, infrequently it happens they would discuss this
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: at a meeting with other physicians to say or other
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: pathologists to say, look, I had this case. This is
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: something you need to watch out for. It's not like,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: you know, if we deal with all manner of trauma.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: We mentioned the head trauma, that's something that we see regularly.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: But you know, we see gunshot wounds and bludgeonings and
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: stabbings and all that stuff, certainly motor vehicle accidents. But this,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: this is something it's not it's not absolutely positivity has
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: never happened. It has happened. We've got a lot of
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: literature on it, but it's not something that you're going
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: to see every single month. Maybe you won't even see
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: one a year. Okay, So when it happens, it's significant
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: and that way.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Once that did happen, her death was ruled a homicide
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: and the investigation began. And that's when the four months
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: previous that we told you about at the very beginning.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: That's why it was so important to know that. I
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: think that that was like trial run four months earlier
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: of the button, the batteries that were like buttons, the
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: water beads, and the screw. And as they were investigating,
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: they said, well, okay, not uncommon for an eighteen month
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: old to swallow things. Look, I don't know a parent
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: that hasn't found something in a diaper and went, please
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: tell me that was after no, that did not pass. Please. Yeah,
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: And thankfully kids do stick stuff in their diaper. You know,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: it doesn't all come through their system first, because right, boy,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: I got two kids that would have not survived. But
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: but in this particular case, they started that and went, okay,
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: that's explainable. But as they started looking into that happened
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: when the child was at her dad's house with this girlfriend,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: and so they start examining dad's phone, girlfriend's phone, and
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: they find out that girlfriend has been researching for nine months. Joe,
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: this child is eighteen months old and for half of
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: her life, this twenty year old girlfriend was looking up
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: if you're child drinks a lot of nail polish remover,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: what happens? That was one of the topics that Miss
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: Owen's researched. What happens if a baby eats nail polish
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: another of her search and she know's on her cell
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: phone in how many cases have kids died from eating
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: water beads? Think about that for a minute. Is what
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: happened four months earlier? Water beads. So the police had
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: this investigation pretty much from the very beginning, zeroed in.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Now it was a matter of going to Joe Scott
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Morgan saying, how do we put all this together? You know,
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: I'm going to put it together on my police detective
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: hat here and I see how these how do we
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: connect them all medically?
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: Joe, Well, I think that again it's going to be
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: the preponderance of the evidence relative to her clinical treatment.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: But then you take this and here's the really ominous
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: piece to this, not that all of this isn't ominous,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: but when you begin to talk about a nine month period.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: First off, if if I were a prosecutor and I
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: was I was working in a location, which this case
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: is out of Pennsylvania, and I was working in that location.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Does the word premeditation mean anything here? You know, because
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: you know, we talk, you know people, and our friend
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace always says, I'll let me see if I
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: can do my best imitation. She says, just got premeditation
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: can be formed in the twinkling of an eye. And
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: you're right, I mean it can be formed in a
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: twinkling of eye, Dave. Nine months. Ain't a twinkling of
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: an eye. You're talking about a record. Just just frame this.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: You're talking about allegedly a record that they have now
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: of her activities stretching back nine months, nine months, Dave.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: Where the prosecution is going to present this case because
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: it hasn't don't trial yet? Right? Oh?
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: And by the way, Joe, Yeah, During the four days
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: that this baby was in the hospital before she died,
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: Alicia Owen's cell phone researched numerous times how to pass
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: a polygraph test.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: And let me guess, how did that work out?
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: She actually was charged with murder. This has not been
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: adjudicated yet. This is an ongoing case because of the
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: homicide charges. She was denied bail, and we will follow
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: it up and will update this particular podcast and probably
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: do an update because there will be more information on
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: what Alicia Lana Owens is accused of doing and why
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Bailey Jacobi, the father, was not charged and still has
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: not been charged with any wrongdoing in the death of
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: his daughter. We'll have to get an update on that
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: as well.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Joe, you're right, and I think looking at this this
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: doesn't require a polygraph to be able to understand and
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: to interpret that something that was absolutely pure evil was
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: perpetrated on this gift sent straight down from Heaven. I'm
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is Bodybags