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God's Word is Rich | Anna Rask Emison '11 · The UNWavering Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hey everybody, this is Monty.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: And Cassie.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: And welcome to another episode of the Unwavering podcast.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, today is part one of a three-part series.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: So here at Northwestern, we often talk about cultivating an unwavering love for God's Word and God's world.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, today we're going to start exploring what it really means to have an unwavering love for God's Word.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: And today we get to talk with Professor Anna Rask Emerson about how God's word is rich.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I just can't think of a better way to kick off this series.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really looking forward to this conversation and glad you're here to join us.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Join as we highlight the people, the purpose, and the pulse of Northwestern.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Unwavering Podcast.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Anna Rask Emerson.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Anna is a 2011 graduate of University of Northwestern St.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Paul and has been teaching Old and New Testament and Northwestern since 2017.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: She is currently pursuing her PhD in Old Testament theology from Union Theological College in Belfast, Northern Ireland.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Anna's passion for Scripture was deepened during a study trip to Israel as a Northwestern student, and today she loves helping students discover the beauty, depth, and interconnectedness of God's Word.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: She's especially passionate about the Old Testament, biblical theology, and helping others see just how rich the Bible truly is.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: And Anna, thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: Happy to be here.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and thanks for coming.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: So this is the first time we've had the pleasure of meeting.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm just going to start out with a light question.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: What is the Lord teaching you today?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: Nice and easy.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: Ironically, it's something that I teach my students, and it's surrendering control.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: I teach the book of Daniel, and that whole book is about God is in control, and it's just something that I teach all the time.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: But when life gets busy or things go a little haywire, I have trouble remembering that.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so in the midst of my busyness with teaching and finishing my doctorate, it's something that I am not just let I'm not just called to let go of, but I'm surrendering to his control and trusting in his sufficiency.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a hard thing as a type A person where I'm trying to get everything under control.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but the Lord is putting me in situations where he is my only hope.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: That's good.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and I'm sure as you lesson plan, you relearn things over and over again in scripture.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: So you're teaching students not just about God's word, but how to love God's word.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: What do you really love about the privilege of teaching them?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think it's not just teaching the Bible, but the fact that it's here at Northwestern, as Monty mentioned, I'm an alum.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, this university holds a very special place in my heart.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: And it's fun because it's where I developed my love for God and his word.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: And now I get to do the same thing for my students, and I get to meet them often as freshmen.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: I teach a lot of freshmen, and I get to see them grow, develop, mature, not just as typically young adults, but also in their knowledge of God and knowledge of the His Word.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then we kind of get to have them leave the nest, so to speak, uh, to go out into the world to apply what they've learned and to share it with others.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: And was it when you were a student that you went to Israel?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: Is that true?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: After my sophomore year, I don't know how my parents let me do this, but I studied for five weeks over in Israel.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so I did like a three-week Old Testament class, two-week New Testament class.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I lived at a campus called Jerusalem University College.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: We still partner with them today.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: And that was an eye-opening experience and 100% confirmed me for me that I want to do this for a living.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: I want to go to grad school, I want to have this as part of my career.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so it really opened my eyes to the world of the Bible and helped me understand it better in context.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: And while I haven't been able to go back to Israel, uh I've had the joy and privilege to take students to Greece and Turkey, and shameless plug for students uh the next spring break, we're taking students to Greece and Rome.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so it really is so fun to um further my knowledge, and then I bring that back into the classroom and then bring students there, and they just come back with all these stories about the amazing time that they had, and they have a better understanding of scripture, like being able to read Paul's sermon on Mars Hill where he re spoke it, it is just mind-blowing.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: That's amazing.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it makes a big difference as you're reading the word and trying to, you know, understand what the author was trying to say and what who what culture the author lived in.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: Totally feels different when you can like smell that place, maybe, or like see it.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: Walk it, absolutely.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Man, crazy.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um well, I wanted to ask one question.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you mentioned that you get to teach a lot of freshmen.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um for somebody like me who doesn't have a chance to interact with a lot of freshmen on campus.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: What are college freshmen like these days?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, ex and maybe in the context of coming into a Bible class?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is the pulse of freshmen coming into a Bible class?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: I teach a fun class called Christian Thinking and Living, and it is probably our very first Bible class for students.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm I'm keenly aware of that when I go in.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like we're coming from all different walks of life.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: Some people may have been Christians for several years, some people are new to their faith.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I if I think if they come in with this attitude of like, I'm ready to learn, I'm ready to be wrong at times too.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: There are very fruitful conversations as we get to bring in our own backgrounds, our own upbringings, our own thoughts about scripture that might not be correct, but might might be correct, and we get to study the biblical worldview.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I often have students say, I didn't know that was in there, or oh, I I I um I've never heard this before, or this helped refine some of my thoughts.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: But it's also a class that we, at least with the textbook I use, it it gets them to really think about their spiritual life too.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: These are students that are maybe leaving home for the first time, not with mom and dad anymore, got to do their own laundry, things like that.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: This is a big step for them in life, and we get to talk through some of that of uh, well, let's push into our relationship with the Lord.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know that there's more than one way to praise him, more than one way to pray?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, hey, go out and walk around campus, commune with the Lord.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really fun if they come in with an open, willing spirit to see them grow and flourish in that class.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, well, what an opportunity.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Such a season of our life that is so formative in so many ways.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the foundation of that being our spiritual life, and you get a chance to step into that part.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Very exciting.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, today we get a chance to dive in and and really talk about how God's word is rich.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want to thank you, Anna, for talking with me and kind of pulling together this three-part series that we're kind of just diving into now.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: There's a million ways, as we found out in our conversation earlier, just how can we talk about having a an unwavering love for God's word?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: We can we can talk about how it's structured, we can talk about you know, zoom in, zoom out, talk about who God is.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's just so many ways to talk about it.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, in that conversation, you really helped helped it land that God's word is rich.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: And and and then throughout the rest of this week, we get a chance to talk about how God's word is foundational with Dr.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Wise, and then and then how God's word is alive uh with Dr.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Robin Bell.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Also can be just great conversations, I'm I'm sure.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but today let's talk about how God's word is rich.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: And when you hear that phrase, what is it that comes to mind for you?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, two passages came to my mind, and hopefully I'm not stepping on Dr.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: Bell's territory here, but Hebrews uh 4.12 about the word of God being living and active.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: So we're we're gonna you're gonna hear that he that it is living and active, but I I want to focus on the part two that is it's sharper than a double double-edged sword sword.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I've experienced that multiple times in my life of when I'm reading a passage and I'm convicted by it, and I know that's the work of the spirit, and yeah, it divides my soul, my spirit, it judges my thoughts, my attitudes.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so it shows me like these are yes, words on a page, but it's more than just words on a page.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: It is inspired text, so 2 Timothy 3 comes to mind as well, 16, 17, but it also is illuminated by the Holy Spirit to to convict people, to encourage people.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it shows me, I I may have read a passage a dozen times, there's something new that comes to mind.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: Or I'll probably talk about this later.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: I I made a connection that I never saw before of like, oh, let's check back what the Old Testament has to say about that, or oh, I didn't realize Paul quotes him there or something.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's very rich, and I see that the spirit uses that in my life to help me understand his scriptures better.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: And especially as we talk about prophecies, I think that is one of the things that's maybe most rich about scripture.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: I talked to my students about the Old Testament being one of prophecy, New Testament one of fulfillment.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't have all the statistics, but I know people have done the work of like how many prophecies are fulfilled, not just in Jesus, but in the New Testament.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so I actually encourage my students to, I know they can listen to it, that's great, but pull open that paper copy Bible every once in a while, too.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: And did you realize as you're reading Romans 1, Paul quotes Habakkuk?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: Probably not.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: So uh check those cross-references, check the footnotes.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: Bible translators and scholars have done the work for us to help us make those connections between the Old and New Testament.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I don't think those are things always my students realize, so I love to get to point those out.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then I get those pointed out to me when I'm in church or reading on my own or reading a scholar that I have those connections made.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, wow, this is a a rich set of books.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's a book, a book amongst books, a book of books, I should say.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: And there's so many connections, and when it clicks, I think that's gets really exciting.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you're just a little excited.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Just a little excited.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love the Bible.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was joting down some notes, so I plan to follow back on some of the things that you just shared there.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, starting with that you made mention of it's just good to open up the paper Bible or like just to hold it in your hands sometimes.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, not that it's not good to open it up on your on your iPhone or something like that, but why can holding it in your hands be a part of the richness of scripture?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Can you speak to that a little bit more?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think it gives you a sense of like a little bit of a roadmap too.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you just scroll down and click, like you need to maybe see how far Romans and Habakkuk are separated in terms of in the Bible, and if you research too, by by years as well, how many centuries are between them.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it it shows you like you need to kind of yeah, totally turn back a section of scripture to go back where you're going or go forward.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm all about learning the books of the Bible in order and or being able to orient yourself.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um I don't want that to be stressful to any student.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: So sure, yeah, still use your iPhone absolutely, but I do think there is something about, yeah, holding your hands, being able to navigate it, do some highlighting.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: I made it a goal.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: I have a Bible that was is engraved.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: My parents gave it to me when I got my master's degree.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, I bring it to church every Sunday, I make notes in it, and I don't know who I'll give it to you, but someday I'm gonna pass it on to next generation and say, here's my notes.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: And if that can edify someone else, I I'd love that.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's really awesome.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: So at Northwestern, as the three of us know, but the person listening might not know, is when you go up to fourth floor NAS on a particular set of stairs, yeah, you have all the books of the Bible.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: So is that a part of your freshman classes?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Do you make them run the stairs to try to make it?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: I do not, but I can definitely implement that uh maybe first week of the semester when it's 90 degrees out.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: Let's run those stairs.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: By the time you get to Revelation.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're happy.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_04: We're ready.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we're done.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Especially the 8 a.m.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: class.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so richness, it can be easy if you put it that in food terms to think about like a really thick brownie or fudge that you Cassie's laughing at me because she's like, where in the world are you going with this?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: But like you can only it takes you a while.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: You have to go through slowly with that, right?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I think when it comes to like back to the text and words, sometimes with the richness of of the Bible, it's good for us to zoom in and slow down a little bit, and we really like focus in on like each word or each series of words, even then, not even just verses, but words.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then to get even further is to think about it in its original language.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I know from talking with you that you get really excited about Greek and Hebrew words.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: So why do the original languages matter when it comes to the richness of the word?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it gives you a handling like no other on the on the text.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: I I've done a lot of work in the languages.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: I spend more time in Hebrew now, and um it demands a lot of you to be running those flashcards every day, to be memorizing things.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um I mainly did that in in seminary, but now, even though I've lost some of the vocabulary at the top of my head, but I'm still able to navigate through the text.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: I have software that helps me with that too.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but to really understand that there's not always just like one meaning for this word.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: It can have multiple meanings, and that's where it gets fun because you don't always uh see it initially, especially in English, but when you look into the word, it's communicating something more rich to you.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: And we call it um, it has a semantic range.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: It could it can mean this word, but it can also mean this word.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'll give you a couple fun examples that I like to bring out to my students.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: The first one is the word kavod in Hebrew, and it traditionally you'd hear it just say it means glory, and it definitely does, but the fun part of this one is in the account of 1 Samuel 4, the Philistines capture the Ark of the Covenant, which is like one of the worst possible things that can happen.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and of course, the Israelites brought it into battle, so it's definitely their fault.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: But so we we talk about the idea of like the glory has departed, and I mean it literally did.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: The Ark of the Covenant was stolen and was taken back to Philistia.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so you're hearing this account of um the Ark of the Covenant stolen, and uh someone from battle comes back and tells Eli, the high priest, that the Ark has been stolen.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: And as he hears this news, he falls back and breaks his neck.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever he's sitting on, he falls back and he breaks his neck.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: But what we've learned in the story is that he is described as a heavy set man.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: And when he dies, ironically, his daughter-in-law goes into labor, and she names her child, because again, on that day, her husband dies, her father-in-law dies, this is not a great day, the ark is gone.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: She names her child Ichabad, which means the glory or the heavy has departed.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a play on words that, yep, her father-in-law has has tragically passed, but it's also more importantly that the ark, the covenant, has been stolen.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: And you do actually hear the word Ichabad come up in Ezekiel when the glory of the Lord departs the Jerusalem temple, um, right at around the time of the exile, because it's so sinful there.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you hear the word Ichabad come back up.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: So as I'm teaching, I teach Old Testament, so we get to 1 Samuel and I'm like, remember this.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then a couple months pass, I'm like, does anyone remember the word Ichabad?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: The glory, the heavy, has departed.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: So that one's a kind of fun one.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: The other one I want to mention is the word ruach.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: It means breath, wind, or spirit.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm I spent a lot of time in the book of Numbers, and in Numbers 11, God sends a ruach to a wind to bring quail to the people.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: They've, I argue, illegitimately complained for it.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: They're uh they're upset about the manna.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: Where's meat?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: We want meat.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: So he sends a ruach to bring quail.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: But Moses is also like, I am so tired of this rebellious people.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: Can you help me?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: And God actually sends, same chapter, his ruach, his spirit, and dispenses his spirit on 70 elders to help Moses lead the people.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: And then the same thing, different, but same, uh, in the book of Acts, same words used um, well, in Hebrew, the equivalents in Greek are used to describe when the wind comes in Acts chapter 2 and the tongues of fire sit on the disciple's head at Pentecost.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, who's coming?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: The spirit.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: So really these wordplays are super fun.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: And while we're not reading it in Greek and Hebrew in my classes, unless you're in a Hebrew or Greek class, I get to pull out these really fun wordplays that you wouldn't notice unless you knew it.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, totally.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: I would never catch that.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's so intentional too, the use of these words and that's yeah, scripture is intentional.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's truly, I mean, it's inspired.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like I I I know each individual author, like from their own educational background, like I I think they were brilliant, but they they did have the Spirit of God working through them as well.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just one of those things that's like, yeah, this is cool.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: The they're writing very intentionally, and the Lord's directing their writing.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it says something about who the Lord is too, which is trying to communicate.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also just really impressed when you said you spend a lot of time in numbers.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's usually about when I when I start the year again, that's about where I get stuck.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's a cooler book than you think.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: I can talk more about it, but it's a cooler book than you think.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: And man, does it point out my failings and flaws as it's like, oh, they're complaining again, and then I close the book and then I go complain.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's humbling.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's fair.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um well, of all the Greek or Hebrew words that you've studied, do you have a favorite one?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell I think I do.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's maybe one that people have heard.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: If you're around church, I think pastors do invoke this word.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's the word chesed.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I once had a professor say, like, you can't really define chesed in English.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's really hard.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, if we tried to find taco, like taco is taco, like what else do you call it?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: Hesed is hesed, but we'll try to define in English.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: It is a really strong, steadfast love.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: It invokes faithfulness, God's loyal commitment, and his actions.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just emotion, it's not just love.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: Love would be a very inadequate translation of Hesed.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's steadfast covenantal love.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: And it's rooted in who God is and his character, his saving acts throughout history.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: And his covenantal love upholds the fact that he is just, but he is also merciful.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: And this provides the basis for him to show forgiveness.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so of course God displays Hasid, but what we see is that he wants people to display it as well.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: So God has always planned to bless all the nations through Israel, and so his Hasid extends to Israel, but also beyond Israel.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so, fun book, the book of Ruth.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: She is not an Israelite, but she displays Hasid.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: And it's used a couple times in the book, and this is the fun thing I like to teach students as well.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't think that Ruth is a love story between her and Boaz.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a love story between her and Naomi.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: And while she may have been a lovely woman, I don't think Boaz was necessarily attracted to her physically.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think he was attracted to her Hasid.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I had a professor once say, Hasid is contagious.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: When you display it, other people want to display it too.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it's because Ruth displayed kind of this deep, steadfast loyalty to Naomi to leave her home and go with Naomi to Bethlehem, where she had never been before, at a great personal cost to her, with no husband.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Boaz hears about that and he says, I want to do something good for you too.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: I want to express covenantal love and so he becomes their kinsman redeemer and helps provide for them.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so that's a really fun way it's seen.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: I also teach Daniel, and in Daniel chapter nine, there's uh a couple words for God that Daniel uses.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: There's Elohim, which is just kind of a broader name for or term for God, but then he uses Yahweh, which is his covenantal name.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so when he pairs Yahweh together with Chesed, you're seeing that Daniel's confessing the sins of the nation and relying on God's covenantal faithfulness.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: And he's saying, You don't have to forgive us because we're repenting.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm asking you to forgive us because that's who you are.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: You're a forgiving God, you are a merciful God, restore your people.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's nothing grounded in Him, it's all grounded.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: In God.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so he's calling upon God's Hesed to be covenantally, faithfully, loyal, even though his people have messed up.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a pretty fun word.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really fun word.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: I just chose one.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, great.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's an awesome word.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I was just thinking Hesed is contagious, as in the sense of uh what, Ruth and Boaz there.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but also you brought that to the Lord, his Hesed.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: His love compels us is kind of that contagious thing, too.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's really cool.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously you enjoy wordplay.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to remember the full list that you said way back when I asked you to think about when God's word is rich, but you have mentioned earlier that you also enjoy things like irony.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love iron.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: And what'd you say, narrative artistry?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: Something along those lines.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like remembering that these books are are literary works of art.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that gets lost on us sometimes too.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like the book of Jonah, that's an amazingly written book.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: Book of Judges, horrible content, needed content, but amazingly written book.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's a cyclical pattern in Judges.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: There's um just, I mean, the amazing way that the Book of Jonah is written to kind of describe, like, Jonah is Israel.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like they're running from God.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: But I'll tell you a couple fun irony passages.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: Would you like to go back to Numbers with me first?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: Let's do it.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um so if you are familiar at all with Numbers, 16.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's in the midst of the r a bunch of rebellions.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: There's this guy, Korah, that is um rebelling against Aaron as the priesthood.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: He wants like higher priestly responsibilities.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: But then there's these other two guys, um, and we're kind of like, where did you come from?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: But their names are Datham, uh, Dathan and Abiram, and they in general complain about Moses' leadership.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so Moses says, and this this is where you Hebrew helps.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: He's kind of calling them to come talk to him.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: So he says, come on, come up and talk to me.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: And they say, No, we're not gonna come.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: We're not gonna come up and talk to you.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: But you we hear their speech, and they here's one piece of irony.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: The the typical kind of phrase you hear for Canaan, the promised land, is a land flowing with milk and honey.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: And very offensively to Moses, to God, they describe Egypt as the land of milk and honey.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: And they and they're like, Why did you take us from that land?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so that part is ironic.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: And they they again use the word, why did you bring us up out of Egypt?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: We're not coming up to talk to you.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: And at the end of kind of this whole showdown, again, Moses leaves justice in God's hand.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so you've heard this word repeated up, up, up, up.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, how do Dathan and Ibiram die?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: They go down, down, down, down.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so the earth opens and they descend alive into the earth.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: So up, down, up, down.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's kind of fun to even note, yeah, the word, but also then this kind of spatial awareness in the text of up versus down.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, broadly, again, in Numbers 2, uh if you read chapters 13 and 14, which is when the spies go into the land and they come back and they're like, Yeah, it's beautiful, but man, it's scary.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so the then the people are like, oh, we don't want the land.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: We're not gonna go into the land.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so ironically, God says, Okay, fine, you won't.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: So it's the kind of technical term is tallionic justice.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's that eye for eye, tooth for tooth kind of thing.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't want to go in, fine, you're not going in.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of that in in the book of Numbers, and that's been fun for me to see.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a it's like a dad talking to his kids almost like a little ironically.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Cassie, have you learned anything yet in this conversation?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm taking it all in.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um actually, I was a Bible major.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: So this is all very familiar to so it might not be it, you may be doing a lot of learning as a Bible owner.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 26:39
  unknown: Bible.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Depending on when you were here as a student, you either get a Bible minor or a Bible major.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Anna, what did you get when you were here?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: I got a Bible major, but that's a minor in Bible as well.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because you were a Bible major by choice.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I was.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: But back in my day.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Monty and I we went to school at the same time.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: But you chose Bible major.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: I chose marketing and got the Bible minor.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_03: Some of us double majored.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's great.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: So just before you got here, we were all double majors.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_03: Very cool.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why you're extra rich, right?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because you got that Bible major.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_03: No, this is all fascinating.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: I'm loving this.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is great.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: Can I share one more cool example when you're ready?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: This is, I mean, it's not totally irony, but it's like connection.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: So one of my favorite classes to teach is women of the Bible.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I start us in ancient Babylon, ancient Assyria, and I try and show students how were women treated.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: And you can imagine, not great in Assyria and Babylon.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so then we move into the the biblical time period, we move into Judaism, and we see that God values women.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: They are equal image bearers.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I move us into the New Testament, finding like Jesus is on the scene, finally, this great respecter of women who gives women a chance.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was I I teach a brief lesson about the significance of women's appearance around the Greco time Greco-Roman time period and the significance of their hair.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: And usually in this ancient Jewish and Greco-Roman world, respectable women would have their hair up.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: It was a sign of honor, a sign of dignity.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: If you had your hair down, it was usually unusual, but also symbolized mourning, that you're repenting of something, that you've been publicly shamed, or another state of distress.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so I initially teach that to the students, and then we look at some specific passages.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so one day I'm teaching about Luke 7, and classic passage of this woman who comes in and she is weeping, she wets Jesus' feet with her tears, she uh anoints them, she wipes her tears and the anointing the oil with her hair, and she's kissing his feet.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: And all of a sudden, I after I read the passage, I look up, and one of the young women in my class, her jaw just dropped because she had made a connection.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, in order to wipe someone's feet with your hair, your hair has to be down.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: Now, she could have yes taken it down there, or she walked in with it down, but either way, her hair was communicating to uh is communicating to us as the reader that, and again, all we we don't get her name, we just get, oh, she's a sinful woman.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: In humility, in repentance, in shame, her actions with her hair down, whenever she took it down, or if she lived with it down, it was communicating brokenness.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: It was communicating humility, and that she's completely devoting her herself to Jesus.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: And not only does he let a sinful woman touch him, he also forgives her.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so that was probably this was like four years ago, but I remember a student just with her jaw dropped, she finally made the connection.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, this is a sinful woman, her her hair is down, it's a symbol of kind of her identity, and she's wiping the tears away with her hair.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: So that that was a really, really fun one.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then the verse that's missing right after that is then she tied her hair up in a bunch.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um Do you have a favorite lady of the Bible?
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: Oh I think one that's been fun to me, she's not mentioned a lot, but Phoebe.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so I had the pleasure last year.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: She's from a place called Cancrea, which is right down the street from Corinth.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it literally was like, well, we were over there, the bus driver's like, look out the window, there's Cancrea.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: And Paul leaves from Cancrea, they say he shaves his head and he heads off to Ephesus.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, she's from there and she's described as a deacon.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: And we learn later in Romans that she is, it seems, the one who brought Paul's letter to the Romans to Rome.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was like, we don't hear a lot about her, but man, she sounds fun.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: I like onto it.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: I like JL.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: Nailed it.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, oh.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, one more question for you before we get into a little, maybe more application here to wrap up today's conversation.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because we could talk about these things for a long time.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: This is very fun.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned Old and New Testaments.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I do want to dive into that.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's beautiful how the Old and New Testaments work together, and why is it important as we read the Bible to see it as one unified story?
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: And what are some of those connections that really amaze you about Old Testament, New Testament?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I so this is kind of the hard part because we have two separate classes, Old and New Testament, and we given students are all in different kinds of uh situations when they come into Northwestern, we don't always say you have to take Old Testament before you take New Testament.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: So some students are walking in not having taken Old Testament and they are starting New Testament.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I do kind of preface it, it's kind of like we've just turned a movie on halfway through and you don't totally know what's going on.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I I tell them, like, you start with the very first chapter of Matthew, and it's a genealogy.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: And now we might like to just go to Matthew 2 because of the gene.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: But the genealogy is important because you're recognizing who these people are.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: And right away you're hearing, I mean, Jesus, ancestor uh of uh Abraham's his ancestor, David his ancestor.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: And if you look back at the Old Testament, you learn God's promises to Abraham that a seed, a descendant, is gonna come through Abraham, through whom the world is gonna be blessed.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: And you, very first chapter of the New Testament, then it's like, Jesus, descendant of Abraham, and it's like boom, God did it.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then, or David, like, yeah, a Messiah is coming.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus, one of his descendants.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: So uh it is kind of like picking up a story halfway through, but it's important for us to ground ourselves in the New Testament, to have the Old Testament to have the New Testament make sense.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so I do think there's benefit starting the Old Testament and leaving and moving it through.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I am always unhappy when someone just is like, oh, I'll just read the New Testament.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus is there.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, amen, he is.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: But oh my goodness, if we miss the Old Testament, we miss the whole first half of the story and the introduction to God's purpose and plan.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: And really helpful things to know about our own existence.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: Where did I come from?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: What's the problem in this world?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: Where is all this leading to?
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: What's God's intention here to reverse the curse, so to speak?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, that's so good.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the more that you've studied scripture, Old and New Testament, what is something that has surprised you about God?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: He is consistent.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: And that that's not necessarily a surprise, but it's something I am more and more aware of.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I I'm not a church historian, but there was this guy, Marcion, in the first century A.D., an early Christian teacher who was excommunicated.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but he taught that the God of the Old Testament was a different deity than the God of the New Testament.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: And man, if you read the whole Bible, nothing could be further from the truth, right?
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: He is so consistent.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: And the early church actually went and confirmed, nope, there is one unchanging God throughout both testaments.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I have the great pleasure of every year for the past few years, I teach Old Testament in the fall, New Testament in the spring.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm consistently struck with the idea that God is consistent.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this is where people can get a little bit hung up because some people emphasize God's love, maybe a little too much, though.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like God is love, absolutely.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: But if God was just loving and never dealt with sin, never dealt with injustice, he would not be a good God.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: But if he were kind of like an oppressive parent who just disciplined us and never gave us any mercy or grace, he would also not be a good God.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so I see that his character is consistent.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: There is judgment in the New Testament as well as in the Old Testament.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: The minor prophets especially emphasize this unity of God's justice and mercy.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: And when we think about it, of course, we want God to judge those who commit injustices, idolatry, covenant unfaithfulness.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: We want him to deal with the abusers, the oppressors of the world.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: We want his justice.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: But then we realize, oh, if he's gonna deal with the sin of the world, he needs to deal with me.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where we get a little uncomfortable.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: So then we need God's mercy.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: And he consistently calls people to repentance in Scripture, promising restoration, forgiveness, and the future in Jesus' kingdom.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that's what amazes me because I know that I cannot be perfectly consistent in my mercy towards someone or my justice towards someone, but God does it perfectly.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so he is definitely fully consistent through scripture, and I get the amazing opportunity to see that uh every year as I go old to New Testament.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's good.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's almost like another way of saying he's unwavering.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes, absolutely.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: I know, just to bring it back to the name of the podcast, but like Yeah, he's he's unwavering, and we certainly are not.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: So he's the one that can pull us back to his standard of who he is.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so we've talked about how the Bible is rich and intentional, which can mean that it's kind of complicated.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: It can be intimidating for somebody who's just starting out studying the Bible or getting back to studying the Bible.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: So what do you have advice for somebody who's getting back into studying or for the first time?
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_03: What would you tell them?
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it it is a little complicated, I know.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I think an easy kind of stepping stone is a study Bible.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it is easy to easier to have a paper copy one because you could be reason reading a verse and then have your eyes drift down to the footnotes and you want to find a quality one, but you've got scholars there who are providing some thoughts of like, okay, does this not make sense to you?
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like, here's the what those measurements would mean in like gallons or dollars today.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like it gives you a sense of like uh someone's done the heavy lifting for you of like, oh, this city was this many miles away or something.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or choosing a translation that is a bit more reader-friendly.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm doing work in if I'm using like an English translation, I love the ESV.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's very kind of wooden translation, but in my own personal devotions, I'm like, new living translation, let's just kind of smooth this out.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: I want to hear the heart of it.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um so choosing an accessible translation too, and I think the um NLT even like uses dollars or something to know like how many, how much this man was forgiven versus this man or something.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: So that helps, but then you could see which authors are writing those footnotes and then go read some of their commentaries.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: And they're not all user-friendly.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um you want to find some that are maybe not right away engaging with the original languages, but can give you um a broader level, a more um understanding of the passages that are kind of written for a popular audience.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: I even find if you're struggling to kind of just grasp the whole story of the Bible, we used to have a class here called Progress of Redemption.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: And it was, I would use this book.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's called the true story of the whole world.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're struggling to go Genesis to Revelation, well, this small book goes, summarizes Genesis to Revelation for you.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then you can maybe feel a little bit more confident and be like, well, I at least know what Leviticus is about.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: And numbers.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and numbers.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: Might not go into it yet, but I I I at least I'm aware of why this is here.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a big fan of Bible project videos on YouTube.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh uh, like they've got a Hesed video.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'll pull that up or I'll sign the students to watch it just to kind of get a little bit more richness to the passage that they're studying.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_02: So super great online resources, yeah, a study Bible, accessible commentaries.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: I would say, depending on like your church tradition, your denomination, you want to be aware of the authors that you're reading to.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you want to maybe research a little bit like where they land on some issues.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: You might want to kind of find one that um maybe you agree with in terms of doctrine and denomination and kind of get solid in that and then move to you could look at some that are totally different, and then you can kind of work as a critical thinker.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, why might I disagree with them or something like that?
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_03: That's really good advice.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, well, then I guess step two of that, how do we move past studying and gaining head knowledge and turning it into a delight for the riches?
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think I'll go back to where we started with this idea of illumination.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: Now, that maybe sounds like a really weird word for someone who hasn't heard that before, but um illumination is the job of one of the jobs of the Holy Spirit.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: He helps us understand his word.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'd probably say, just to remind everyone, we're not on our own when we study scripture.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, please study it with other Christians.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: Go to church, absolutely, but divine illumination, as you're reading scripture, is one of the Holy Spirit's jobs.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: He helps us understand, embrace, apply it.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's different from inspiration.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: The Spirit helped produce the biblical text.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: Illumination is not giving us any like new biblical revelation.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like I'm Isaiah and when I read, I get a new revelation.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: But he the Spirit is helping us understand the text, um, helping us rightly understand the written word.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: And the Holy Spirit allows us and enables us to recognize the scripture's saving message.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we're called then to submit to its authority and receive that assurance that this is God's truth.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not just kind of like you're saying, it's not just about head knowledge.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's something I've struggled with at times.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: I get a lot of knowledge pushed into my head from the books I read and the people I listen to.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: And you could stay there, but I think that would be dangerous.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: We we, as a Christian, I want to apply this to my life to have the spirit bring about transformation.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I would encourage Christians to approach scripture carefully and prayerfully, rely on the Spirit to help deepen your knowledge of God, even if you don't have all the right answers, and rely on him to straight strengthen your faith, submit to him for obedience, and then to conform your life to be more like Christ.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I think one of my favorite passages to see this in action, I think I mentioned this to you, Monty, at our initial conversation, Luke 24, as Jesus is, he's been resurrected, we hear about these two disciples on the road to Emmaus, and I don't know, for some reason they couldn't recognize him.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: Something was going on where they couldn't recognize him.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: But he appears to them and was like, hey, what are you talking about?
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: Where are you going?
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and verse 27 says, beginning with Moses, so Pentateuch, first five books, moving in the prophets, he explained everything that was about him in scripture.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so they're hearing him essentially like exegete scripture, and they don't know it's him, but he's trying to be like, Yep, that's me, that's me, that's me, this is all pointing towards me.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then when he does reveal himself, verse 32, they they turn to each other and they say, Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the scriptures?
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's probably one of my favorite verses because even though I study scripture a lot, I still get that heartburn.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_04: Heartburn.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_02: That came out wrong.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_02: I still get the heartburn.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I still have that sense of that burning in my heart realizing I'm seeing the connections.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm seeing how Christ is the fulfillment, I'm seeing connections I I never made before.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: If we have time, I can tell you one last connection that just happened to me last week.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think that is something that, again, allow the Holy Spirit to do his job and he will help make those connections.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: And we see that, yes, this is all about Jesus, it's always been about Jesus, it's pointing to Jesus, fulfilled in Jesus.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_02: And when we see those connections, we we see that yeah, we can have that burn in our hearts too of understanding.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: When I think of heartburn, what's that what's the medicine you're supposed to take with it?
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: A pepsid AC or something?
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we've got an acid or we've got Tom's.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was just thinking Hesed.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: Hasidic.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you know, we gotta take your medicine to get Heartburn.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I suppose it's not gonna fix the heartburn at all.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, as we as we wrap up, maybe you could tell us the connection that you made last week.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: Just encourage listeners with God's word.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: This was mind-blowing to me, and maybe not everyone will be as excited, but I've spent my entire summer in the chapter Numbers 20.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: This is where Moses strikes the rock instead of speaking to it.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: And as you can see by my writing, people have a lot to say about this passage.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what did Moses do wrong?
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: Why is he banned from going to the Promised Land after all these decades with the people?
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's really puzzled interpreters.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: They're trying to figure out, okay, what exactly was the sin?
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: For sure he disobeyed God.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: I get it.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but some recent commentators I was looking at have looked at this and said, well, maybe perhaps the issue is not just that, okay, he's He struck the rock instead of spoke to it.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: But God's instructions were okay, speak to the rock because I'm gonna cause a miracle to happen.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not just gonna provide water to these thirsty people.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna display my glory, my holiness.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: I believe this is the second generation out of Egypt.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: So these new kids that have grown up, they need a fresh understanding of who God is before they go into the land.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: And the commentators I was reading never thought about this before.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: They said, we think that Moses might have a bit of Jonah syndrome.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: And now it's backwards because Jonah comes later.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_02: But what did Jonah not like?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: We learned this in chapter four of Jonah.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: Jonah didn't want not want to go to Nineveh because they were scary.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the Ninevehes were scary, but he didn't want to go to Nineveh because he knew God would have mercy on them.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: So what was maybe Moses mad about?
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: I am not going to speak to this rock because I don't want you to be merciful.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want these people to have water.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: They can die of thirst for all I care.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think both Moses and Jonah are saying, why does God have to be so good all the time?
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that just is like amazing.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think that may indeed what be what he was struggling with.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_02: And it's such a self-righteous attitude.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that may be why he gets such a severe punishment.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_02: He was saying, God, what he was upset with the nature of God.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: Why do you have to be so merciful?
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: Why do you have to be so good?
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: Why can't you just judge them?
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that was an aha burning heart moment for me because I was like, wow, there is a connection I had never thought of before.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm going to, in my spare time, write a paper about that.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_02: All that spare time.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, all that spare time.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: Why does God have to be so good?
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that that comes back to uh you were talking about the hair down from for women and the meaning that came with it.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_02: You said it was like maybe shame or Yeah, repentance, yeah, um humility, yeah.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: And what happens when that when that woman comes to him, probably with her hair down, right?
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then what happens as a result?
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: How Jesus, why does he have to be so good all the time, right?
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: Respond to her.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's such encouragement, even just as one takeaway from this conversation that we've had today, that in a way we should all come before the Lord with our hair down.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and it shouldn't be hidden.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: We shouldn't hide our metaphorical hair under a hat or in a bun.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: We should just come to him with our hair down and own it with one another that we need your help, Jesus, and we know that you are good all the time.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that we can depend on him to come through.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's who he is, and we see that.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Anna, thank you so much for joining us for this conversation.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: You're easily the right person to have for a conversation and how God's word is rich.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's fun, yeah.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I love this because we it's easy to say that we have an unwavering love for God's word, but it's so it's rich to actually have conversations deeper about it and looking forward to our conversations later this week as we get to dive deep and talk about how God's word is foundational and how it is alive, which we've already started to feel in this conversation.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for listening.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining us.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: Anna, thank you again for taking time out of your schedule.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we look forward to being back here with our next episode really soon.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_04: Holding on to your promises, holding on to your famous.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: To hear more, subscribe and leave a rating wherever you listen.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if you know an alum, faculty member, staff, or student of Northwestern doing amazing things out in the world, let us know at alumni at unwsp.edu, the unwavering podcast, highlighting the people, the purpose, and the pulse of Northwestern.