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Ashley Cheung: A Bold Approach to Purpose · The Bold Lounge

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Lee Burgist and I will be your host.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Every week we'll hear from someone who has taken the leap or embarked on an extraordinary journey.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold growth mindset that they used to make things happen.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Whether they faced challenges or doubts along the way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: These impactful stories will leave you feeling motivated and inspired to pursue your own bold journey.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be freed.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Tune in and get ready to be inspired.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Today we have Ashley Chung.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Ashley is the founder of a virtual paralegal consultancy whose journey from hardworking Asian American immigrant to entrepreneur has shaped a powerful second chapter.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: It is rooted in purpose, creativity, and impact.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: In the past five years, she has expanded her work as an author, speaker, mentor, and advocate for others with a passion for empowering the next generation of leaders to pursue their dreams.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Inspired by travel, collaboration, and the opportunity to support women and young creatives, she is committed to building a future where talent thrives and possibility expands.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Bold Lounge, Ashley.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for inviting me.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: This is such a privilege.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll jump right in.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: What is your definition of bold?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: What does it look like in your life?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: So at first, when I I knew that I was going to have to address this, so I was wondering what would be a good way to like talking about bold.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: So at first I thought that bold is this really a personality trait, but to me it seems like that is a survival strategy.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I started thinking about because I'm an immigrant from Hong Kong and I've been living in this state for over 40 years.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think that I would ever really thought about and defining myself as bold in the old days.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I have been in patent litigation space for over 30 years, I think.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so one of the things that I really in the patent litigation space, I was a case manager, uh, Paralegal.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: And what we really do, especially in the litigation, is that we do something called clean constructions.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that is going to the different sources.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, for me, this morning, I started thinking about Marion Webster online.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: What does bow mean in the dictionary term?
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, besides being a survival strategy, I look at this from three different perspectives.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: One, it has the go-getting uh aspect of it.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: And for Marion Webster, it talks about it being having a strong desire for personal advancement.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I really like to learn.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I like listen to podcasts, read books, recommending people to do different books.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I have a group of young people that actually help me grow too.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: So that go-getting part of it is the first aspect of bonus that I would define.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: The second part is industrious.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: But you could probably see that all kinds of things that I'm doing are based on LinkedIn, I'm doing event organization.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then I have my bread and butter of filing that I never really talk about because it's confidential.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm not supposed to talk about it.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: So those are the things that that constant activity and constant moving part is what I also consider as the second part of bonus, being willing to move forward despite not knowing what the outcome would be.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: That whole big part of uncertainty.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think that nowadays I would consider myself pretty bold because there's a lot of things as an entrepreneur you don't know exactly.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: When you launch something, is it going to like go viral or is it gonna flop?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: You have no idea.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: You just have to move forward and use those as trial and learning moments.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: I don't like to use trial and error anymore.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: So those are learning moments.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's the second aspect.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: The third aspect is focus.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Having so many things, so many different aspects of activity that I'm putting together and with my team, because I cannot do it all alone.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I can have intense focus, but because the myriad of things that I'm involved in, I find myself being more bold in terms of shortening the time from the planning.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: I usually plan ahead of time, but from the planning to execution, the time that requires has become much shorter.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the third aspect of being bold.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: So basically, go-getting, being industrious and focus.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that all wraps into who I am today.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so focus, industrious, and go getting.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: So let's start with go-getting.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Help me understand kind of in your life, where have you been a go-getter?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: I started my company six years ago.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: So being an entrepreneur and then connecting that to one of the important things you said is moving forward in uncertainty.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, just a lot of the things that I'm reading lately, that's actually one of the predictors of high performing, whether it's executives or athletes or human beings, is being able to move forward and basically explore, see what happens very thoughtfully and pragmatically.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: It isn't just jumping, but it's moving forward with that.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: So when you think about a time in your life and there's been a bunch, and obviously being an immigrant right off the bat, go get her.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, like in that sense, but any moment come up for you where you're just like, wow, I really went for it there.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I had no idea how it was gonna be.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Entrepreneurial world, definitely big check mark there.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Anything else come to mind?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna share you with you the story of how I started virtual patent gateway.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, like I said, I've been in litigation law firm's life for about 24, 25 years.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and how did you get into that?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think sometimes the serendipity.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I have a master in East Asian languages and cultures and political science, totally not related to patent litigation.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, how did I get involved?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I my very first job was actually in a research capacity at a private consulting firm.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't really quite like it.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought about going into PhD, but then there's like the cost and a lot of things that didn't really quite work out.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I needed to also help support the family, like my parents, you know.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: They used to have a Chinese restaurant at in Lawrence Kansas, and so a lot of it, like the work ethics part, I got it done, you know.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: But how did I get into it?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't like my first job.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't feel like I was respected, and I didn't feel like that the people were being truthful to me.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I did not like that.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, you know, it's time to go.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I didn't have any backup plan, which is so unlike me, but I was young then.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I decided to like maybe I should just get a 10 job, you know, something close to my work.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then I started temping at a construction litigation firm totally by accident, because the agency sent me to the wrong place.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: So that's how I got into litigation.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then litigation is very generic skills to me, especially at the time.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I started out with project assistant, and then people were like asking me, I was like, why didn't you tell us that you have a master's degree?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: I said, it's not relevant to this job.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I learned a lot along the way.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: So the construction litigation firm actually gave me a lot of really good transferable skills.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then after that, I decided that I want to focus on getting paralegal sort of position at a larger firm.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: So at first I went to a GP firm, a general practice firm, and then they really like me.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: But then I also want to further focus.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I went to a boutique firm for 19 and a half years.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then I really like, like I said, that you know, I do research.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: So everything that I have, I was like, oh, I wonder why this not working.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: So then I would just kind of like figure things out.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: But that's how I actually niche myself.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm actually really niche, not even general litigation.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: I do like something called the PTAP practice and it's patent trial and appeal board and administrative hearing that is before the USPTO, United States Patent and Trademark Office.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it is very specific.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I have started it from this part of my journey, even at the firm, it was like 2014.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I really honed my skills, but still I did not really at the time.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: I was really great workforce and I could get stuff done.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: And there's usually no doubt in my mind that I would get things done.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: But it's not until you sit down and intentionally wanted to evaluate your life and what makes Ashley happy.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a bold move in itself, right there.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a couple of bold moves in there I want to talk about.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, switching and saying I'm going to change from a job where I don't feel respected and I don't feel people are honest.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Boom, right there.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Bold move.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: You're taking agency in your life.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: You are saying I matter.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't really think I want to try to fix this.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes the issues are very deep, or sometimes the issues will just take too much.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, you were in a space where you could, you know, move and go to something different.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Then you end up getting placed into something or going to somewhere where you actually, you know, weren't supposed to be was an accident or, you know, a mistake on their end, but it ended up being good.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you rolled with it.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, boom.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Bold move number two right there, just in your description.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because not everybody can do that.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes bold women, bold men, but definitely bold women, they underestimate that they're even doing anything bold.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was one of those people.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: I never even used the word except for one time.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: I would, you know, I in my teams, I would say, you know, big swings of bold.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: I said that quite a bit, but that was it, you know.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: And what that meant is we're going to do it, but we're not certain how it's going to end up.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: But we are we're really smart.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: We've planned for this and we can figure it out and we'll learn.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then the third thing that you just talked about is like you, you know, you really you niche down to something very, very specific.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: And some people are afraid to do that because they're afraid they'll miss out.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: They'll afraid they won't have business.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then being an entrepreneur, number four, let's round it out.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's just bold, you know, in the sense of it's uncertain always.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really, I think it's a different world than I've ever experienced.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I was in corporate for a very long time.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's a different way of thinking, it's a different way of being, it's a different type of stress.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: But it would be very hard for me to actually go back into a world where it was so constrained.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: I guess that's the right word for me.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: So those are bold moves all within that.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just interested in like obviously you have, you know, your background, but what drew you towards patents specifically?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so intellectual property.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Patents is actually only one aspect of intellectual property.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: So there's four areas is patents, copyrights, trademark, and trade secrets.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so you do all of those?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: No, I usually only do patents.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm mostly litigation.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: I know all four areas because I did study IP for my paralegal program.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: And what drew me to patents is really because of the transferable uh litigation skills that I have.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: And when I was at uh George Washington University at the ABA program before, my professor Dan was an associate at Morgan Lewis and Bakias.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: And because I did quite well in this in the class.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: And at the end of it, he was like, Have you thought about going into IP?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm saying, I don't know anything about IP.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just taking a course for my elective.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, I think you would be really good in IP.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: I said, well, can you give me your insight as to what I would actually do well in from those four aspects?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, I think you would do really well in patents because first there's money in that and we all need to survive.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: So that's good.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: And he kind of like, I think that you are not going to like the other three parts as well, because you are a big picture person.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, okay, well, that's fine.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: I have most of the transferable skills.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I decided to do that.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then he really had guided me either intentionally and intentionally, really packed me quite well for my career.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I have to give him a shower, Tyler Goodwin.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: And he's no longer in Morgan, but he's still a partner at another major litigation firm.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: So uh thank you, Tyler.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely bold moves there, I think again, like rolling with it, thinking, you know, we'll just figure it out.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Has anything started to go faster for you in this sense of sometimes as we start off as entrepreneurs, we feel like we don't know what we're doing.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: At least I didn't, and on certain days, still do.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, from the perspective of you as an entrepreneur, has anything started to move faster?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know, moving forward into uncertainty, the more that you go through that cycle, the faster you learn, right?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: Two things.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: One, it's the speed that I have to trust myself to make a decision.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: That is that faster?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: Much faster.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I love that.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: In the past, I think it's because I did not trust myself because this is a new journey for me.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: I have never done that before.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: I have always been a W2 employee, you know.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: So going from that to self-employed and also working with other contributors, I don't like to call them freelancers anymore, but contributors or team members from my company, there's a lot of things that when you start creating a culture, there are going to be people that follow you because they buy what you said.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: But a lot of it is really also because of self-interest.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes, and I'll say that the decision making that have to really conquer the butterfly in my stomach is that I have to trust myself so much more and try to reduce the self-doubt.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: For example, if I don't think someone is the right fit for my culture, I have to let it go.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas before, I just, oh, maybe there's a chance that, you know, there's this, you know, that you could actually figure it out, you could culture the person.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, you know, right?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: If you know, you know.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think sometimes that's that's one of the hardest things I think about managing people because it isn't personal, it's business, but it does not feel good.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if it ever feels good or you get excited about it, like there's another issue that you have as a manager, director, leader.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so making the moves even when they're uncomfortable is bold, right?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you know it's right and you do that.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: So trusting yourself and the speed to trust yourself comes faster.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: How do you talk to yourself?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously, the bold framework, believe on learn design, first one's belief.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's literally the foundation, the filter, everything, whichever way you want to look at it, that your thoughts, what you are bringing into your life come through.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, did you need to work on any of your beliefs when it comes to trusting yourself?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, I have so many and limiting belief is not even funny.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we all have a list.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: We all have a list.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: So when you think about that, is there anything that you could give as a tip to someone else who might be in the same situation where they have self-doubt or they don't trust themselves to move forward when it's uncertain?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think so.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think the second point that I was going to say earlier is that the speed and also the intensity of how much I blame myself when something didn't go right, it also reduced.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: I know that I'm responsible, but you don't have to tell people that you are the boss.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's people usually just follow you because they see something that they can gain from you.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: I don't mind self-interest, I don't care for selfish people.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: I just really don't.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's a big difference to have self-interest and being selfish.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely we want people to have self-interest.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that for that, like before I would take that as a personal failure if something didn't go right.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're hard on yourself, so you're taking a lot of responsibility for everything, it sounds like.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: So where do you think that stemmed from?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because lots of us, I think, can have that.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: I know I've had it in the past.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Every now and then I, you know, catch it again of like just having this mantle of responsibility where I'm supposed to protect everything, make sure everything runs on time, make sure I do my job because I do have one, you know, and make sure I, you know, buffer the team and do the thing and, you know, do the dance of what it takes sometimes to be successful, but it wears you out.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, what is something for you when it comes to responsibility that you've gotten better at instead of taking it all on?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like one, letting things go.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: I made a mistake, it was an error.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: We're human, I did it.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Anything around responsibility that you can think of that you have started to let go of?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the eldest of three siblings.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: I have two brothers.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: So uh my mom lives it for me.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, my dad passed in 2017.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's actually one of the catalysts that led me to start thinking after I come out of classic avoidance.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: Then I decided, oh, I don't think that this is sustainable.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't think that I can actually continue to work in a litigation environment and not having control over my life.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that have it, my mom lives with me.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I do like take her to do her exercise class to she just turned 80.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of it is, I think, is familial responsibility culture.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, I'm Chinese American.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: And typically the girls in the family will just have to take care of the parents, uh, reverse parenting, take care of them a little bit more.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: But usually they don't want to be taken care of.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're very independent.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, my mom doesn't drive, so I'm a Uber driver.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there you go.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so that's fine.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: She goes to like kickboxing and uh I know, but she said she always tells me I don't do the traditional kickboxing.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: I said, I know you don't, but you still go into a kickboxing class.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: So that part is like, I don't think that she had that bold part in her mindset.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: Her actions actually are very bold.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's usually where it is.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like someone saying, Hey, trust me.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, actually, it's your actions that help me trust you, and you don't have to tell me to trust you.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Or someone saying, you know, they're X, Y, or Z, and you look at them and like there's nothing about them that's aligned with that.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: They just say they are.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, you know, what you just I don't walk around saying, Hey, I'm bold.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: You're actually doing the things that people say, you walk the talk.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's really important too.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's not really normally very loud when you're being bold, meaning you're not announcing it, you're not telling everybody about it.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's just happening.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's part of who you are.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think the letting go part, you asked the question.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: So let me go ahead and also respond to that.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: Is that the letting go part is that I've become much more compassionate to myself.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: I give myself maybe five minutes.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, okay, Ashley, you did not catch this.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: What gifts, right?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: But after that, it's like, hey, like you said, we're all human, we're all juggling like tons of things.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: I am doing so many things, like bread and butter, I have to do.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that's fine.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: I don't necessarily put too much emotion to it.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: But all the other things that I help, especially in service of others.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: And for my, you talk about the children's book or seemingly children's books, for me is really started, it's the messages on leadership and on teamwork.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: Those are hard messages.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: And just like in IP, the work that I do are super complex.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: And for me to do the illustrator book, it has a couple of things.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: One, I wanted to support the young illustrators.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: So there are two that are actually supported for the books.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: The first two, it's actually with a Korean American young woman.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: So the books, you know, the first three building a leadership habitat, collaborating in competitive ecosystems, and the leadership catalyst Igniting Inspired Change.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: So each of these books is a hard topic, like it's a big topic.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you chose to have it be illustrated and then to also support other creatives in that space.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: So the the first two books were illustrated by Michelle Kim.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: She's an introvert and very talented.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought that I also know her mother.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: So her mom was like, she's really talented artist.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: I wonder if you could help her with anything.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: And this is early on in my journey.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't really trust myself enough at that point.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I've grown a lot since then.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: But when I was seeing her, I thought that I saw a lot of me growing up.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: English is my second language, it's not her second language.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: She's born here, but she's so quiet.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like her voice could be amplified, just like what you are doing with us right now.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I have her do like different things and different graphics.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then at some point I'll say, hey, you know, I met an editor online from Airbnb experience.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I always like to write.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: And at that time, my schedule was not so crazy.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I thought maybe I'll write a book.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I kind of like uh have this particular editor.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Help me.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Her name is Angie Evans.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so we did the I wrote the book and had her edit it.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: My team was represented by different animals.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm and now.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: So when we initially started in January uh 2020, of course, I picked COVID to start something.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I just didn't see people on the Zoom environment being super talkative because we don't know each other.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I started coming up with questions like if you were an animal, what would you like yourself to be?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: And what's your name?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: What's your character?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: And what would you like us to know about you?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: So then we started having, if you look at my website, it actually has all kinds of animal.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like she is a zebra.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway, I was like, this would be a great opportunity.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: So the first one is just basically cropping the different animal.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't very intensive.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: So the first one really walks you through getting out of your comfort zone, embracing joy, and knowing that life has challenges.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Is that fair to say that's what building a leadership habitat is about?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: So then you moved on into collaborating in competitive ecosystems.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: So this one, it has different themes like FOMO, you know, scarcity, toxicity.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: So also with the same illustrator.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: So now we've moved on.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: I have one book under my bell.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I decided that I'm gonna do something different.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: And on Zoom, Michelle and I would go on one-on-one session because I do believe in like mentoring and also reverse mentoring because I learned from them too.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: So what I believe was that for that one is that we go on Zoom.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: I would write a script, or basically a chapter, and then I would have her and I take turns to do like the voice over.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because when you read, you really hear the message.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because she also has a very soft voice.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I want her to practice hearing herself and recording it.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: And while we do that, she would also illustrate and we go back and forth and critique it the next session.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a very involved process.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: But I did that with her for the second one.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so that one's really focused in on the higher-level thinking mindset.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can move into the leadership catalyst Igniting Inspired Change.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: And this one has a different illustrator, Alyssa Gangarum.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so this introduces the raccoon's wheel of wisdom.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: What is that?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, like the wheel of fortune.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: I love how you describe it.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Five transformative micro learning moments.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people, you know, sometimes use the micro learning, but I think the way that you describe it here, if you could tell us the five, that would be great.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: So one is purpose and fulfillment, second is money and fame, third is FOMO and people pleasing, growth, knowledge and fun, and inner piece.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: And why did you pick those?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think so.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: In a piece is what I need most.
• 24:54
  unknown: So that's me.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: The purpose and fulfillment, I did not feel like that I was even conscious about that.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: I need purpose and fulfillment until probably year three into my work as a VPG.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: Money and fame, I think people sometimes mistakenly think that money and fame will bring them fulfillment, but I don't think that it really is.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: It just brings you like the outer layer of people, oh, you know, they're driving a new car and whatever it is.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: But when you look at some of the people, it's like, oh yeah, you have a great payment.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: But other than that, what do you have this row for?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to be judgmental, but I don't think that is epicable to me anymore.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think what you're saying is money can give you nice things, but one of the things that it can't give you is happiness.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't equate to happiness.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: It equates to maybe a better lifestyle, a better home, a better car, a better meal.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: But ultimately, you could have the most money in the world and be one of the loneliest people in the world, or even have people around you and still feel lonely if you have money.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it is something that as you grow and learn as a leader, there's certain things that you want to achieve, right?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: You want to have a certain salary, and there's nothing wrong with that.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: You want to have a certain title, and there's nothing wrong with that.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I think in the sense of like checking yourself, is that what I think is happiness?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: What you'll find out is like for me, like when I got that title, when I got that role, I was like, what's next?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that wasn't it.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think that is totally success addiction, too, especially people that are in like the profession, right?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: So also money, it I don't mean to imply that it's not important.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: We have to pay bills, you know, we have to have a chance.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Important, yeah.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: But what you were saying is it doesn't, it doesn't equal happiness.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think people often, you know, don't all also think about or figure out how important their health is, too.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, your health is is your wealth.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, everyone's heard that, but I think you know, the older you get, the more you think about that.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're thinking about these transformative moments, is there any particular one that stands out for you more than the others?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think this year I want to focus on fun.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: You travel for fun, like on your website, you have your whimsical wanderings and you've you've been all over.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: I do travel a lot.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: I take my mom to a lot of places because I feel that I can.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then also I think that she is really actually a very bold woman, but didn't necessarily give in the conditions to, because my dad was pretty um, it's a very patriarchal old society, and I think that my mom was not afforded a lot of chances to make decisions, so I let her do it.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you travel together too.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: You learn a lot about your mom and your family, obviously, when you travel.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: She knows too much about me.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Probably, yeah.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Probably all of our moms do in some form of fashion, but you learn a lot.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Anything you learned about your mom with your travels?
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: I learned that she has so much fear that she does not necessarily need to, like we all do, right?
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so I think one of the things that I'm really glad that I'm in a position to do, especially now that I have my own company, is that my mom actually is also growing her confidence because she goes to her exercise classes.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: And before there's a class that's called strong nation.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: And for a long time, she goes, I don't want to go there because there's the word strong.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I can handle it.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, but you could try.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to do everything that they do.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you don't have to do everything.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I love that she's still going to kickboxing and doing those things.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, now she's in strong nations, she's doing stabs and all kinds of things.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody loves her, and then so they were like, Why are you not there?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, Ashley's too busy to drive me.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so that has been, I think I learned that, you know, given at any part of our journey, and given that this is Women's History Month, we all need some reassurance and empowerment and support.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: So any chance that I can do for anyone, they do that in turn.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: I have a lot of people supporting me, but I think we all need support.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we don't have to go it alone for sure.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think that the best empowerment is to empower yourself.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not always easy to do and it's not always fun, but I think you know, that's where the beliefs and the ownership and applying everything you've learned is so important.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it is important to have a community and connections around you.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: So you can go, am I crazy?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe I am crazy today, but I just I need to tell you this.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, like having support and being able to go through those moments that are tough together and then also celebrate, which is I think that's sometimes harder for especially entrepreneurs, is just kind of stand in the moment and be present, let it simmer a bit.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes we move on too fast and community is really, really important.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: So when you think about stepping forward and into the unknown or uncertain and doing all of the things that you've done and experienced so far, what would you advise someone who's thinking about taking that step?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they want to go to a class, or maybe they want to take a trip, or maybe they want to learn a new language, or they want to quit their job.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, that's different level of risk taking there.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Start small.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: Start small.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I was gonna say.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: The thing is like, for example, quitting jobs.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: That might be the most risk that you have.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: Agree.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: But I think you could actually do maybe start or side hustle.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: And the key thing really is surround yourself with people who believe in you.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: If you haven't developed that particular trust in yourself, have people that have super faith in you can do it, you know, and that way eventually, like a friend of mine who's a brand strategist, uh Sasser Strauss, and he owns Innovation Protocol.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: But one of the things that I actually started out without believing in myself, like without believing in my myself in the traditional sense.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think deep down I would believe in myself.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: But have people that's candid with you, like honest.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: I had a professor say growth-evoking feedback.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's feedback I'm gonna give you because I want you to grow, I want you to learn, I want you to hear me, right?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Not criticism.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I just always put this out there as a PSA.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Unsolicited feedback usually is not welcomed, often.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but think about if someone needs to hear it, even though they haven't asked for it, how you approach it, you know.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I love your advice is really for surround yourself with people who believe in you, but will not just tell you you're great, they will tell you, hey, you're great in this, but have you thought about this or maybe improving that?
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the kind of people we need in our lives.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I think that having compassion for yourself for taking a look at how far you have gone to come to this point.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: And when you're seeing other people on social media who's like, not everybody's is a Lee Burgess, and not everybody is like a Simon Sinek, Adam Grant, or you know, whoever.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: Be you, be you, yeah.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I always tell people it's like just be you, but it's harder said than done.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: So give yourself some grace.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Give yourself some grace and surround yourself with people who truly believe in you, but also want you to grow.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: One last thing that I want to say is that I know that you wrote a book.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: I have not had a chance to read it, but it's gonna be on my list to read.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, wonderful.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I wrote two books.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, starting.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: I will have to do two.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is the first one.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, be bold today is the first one, and then the bold leader is from 25.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so thank you very much.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there you go.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: And and you have three books everyone should pick up.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: All the information is down in the episode notes.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for being on the bold lounge, Ashley.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for the invite.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Through the continuum of bold stories, vulnerability to taking the leap, you will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important story.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of those with a bold mindset.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next bold journey with you.