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Men's Rights Goblins are attacking your franchise! · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to my channel where we have a
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I guess a more informal discussion on entertainment topics. My
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: name is Alison, and of course Brian is here with
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: me as he usually is, and so today we're going
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: to talk about god men's rights complins. It was just
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: a dramatic clause. I know it extended a bit long
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: because I forgot fair. Yeah, it just slid off the
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  Speaker 1: brain pan because it's lubricated by a lot of ridiculousness.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: But in one of the D and D manuals, correct
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong. It's D and D is not
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  Speaker 1: my forte.
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  Speaker 2: Sorry, Well, yeah, go ahead, want me to share it.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: So I got this article from Fantom Pulse written by
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  Speaker 2: I think it was John Dela ross. I wrote this,
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  Speaker 2: and it's called Dungeons and Dragons supplement uses Goblin men's
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  Speaker 2: rights activists as example of how DM should present evil
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: in storytelling and the the it's not an official so
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: you know, like when you play tabletop games, it's like
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: official releases that are made by the original publishers, and
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: then there's like supplements that could be made from from
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: various like third party sources. Okay, And there was a.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Let's see if I can find the section. There was
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  Speaker 2: a book called Forge of Foes, which is not an
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  Speaker 2: official production, but there's a lot of people that are
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: contributing right that that make stuff. And in the Forge
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: of Foes book there's there's a series that's supposed to
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  Speaker 2: help game masters tell you know, better stories that are
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  Speaker 2: less problematic and less sort of like politically incorrect. And
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  Speaker 2: one of the things they try to tackle is this
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  Speaker 2: idea of you know, like, if you're a d M
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: and you want to have a story involving goblin's attacking
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  Speaker 2: of don't simply describe them as goblins, because you see,
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  Speaker 2: that's racist because you're presuming all goblins behave this way,
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  Speaker 2: even though they're sort of like evil fay creatures. But
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  Speaker 2: instead you should give them a descriptor that sort of
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  Speaker 2: fits them being evil. I'll try to find the section here.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: In this article, ex user ginger Blast posted an excerpt
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  Speaker 2: that shows a very cringe worthy example about goblins. Quote.
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  Speaker 2: One of the most standard adventure hooks in fantasy games
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: goes something like this, goblins are attacking the village. The
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: characters need to help. It's a straightforward setup. It's fun,
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  Speaker 2: but as written. This is according to the writer of
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: this piece, it embraces the explicit idea that goblins are
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: attacking the village simply because that's what goblins do. So
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: when the hook comes to mind or appears in a
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  Speaker 2: published adventure, put yourself in the frame of that mind
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  Speaker 2: that attacking villages isn't what goblins do across the board,
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  Speaker 2: then figure out what kinds of godlins might engage in
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: that sort of behavior. For example, goblin cultists are attacking
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: the village, or Goblin bandits are attacking the village. Goblin
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: refugees are attacking the village. Goblin men's rights activists are
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  Speaker 2: attacking the village. Any of these alternative scenarios set up
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: the same basic adventure. But these other scenarios, goblins aren't
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  Speaker 2: the noun. They aren't the agents of conflicts simply because
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  Speaker 2: they exist to create conflict. Rather, they're the adjective giving
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  Speaker 2: more context to who the agents of conflict are, letting
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: you explore the story of why they've embraced conflicts as
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  Speaker 2: a choice. So basically, they're saying goblins are not evil
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  Speaker 2: in and of themselves, but if they're mra goblins, then
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  Speaker 2: they're evil, so.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I guess you could argue that they
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  Speaker 1: also included refugees, and I assume they would say that
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  Speaker 1: refugees aren't necessarily evil, but it's giving them a lot
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  Speaker 1: of benefit of the doubt. So essentially, goblins are not
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  Speaker 1: always chaotic evil, but US men's rights activists we are
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  Speaker 1: always chaotic.
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  Speaker 2: It's a it's a weirdly anachronistic. Yeah, I guess you
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  Speaker 2: could say it. It's like a really out of place
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  Speaker 2: comparison that got people's attention, and you know, like it
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  Speaker 2: here's the here it is from the book itself, right,
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  Speaker 2: Goblin men's rights activists are attacking the village like it.
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  Speaker 2: It beggars the question. It begs the question like why
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  Speaker 2: are there goblins men's rights activists and why would they
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  Speaker 2: attack a village? But they just think that's enough, you know.
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  Speaker 2: And I think ultimately what I think it is is
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  Speaker 2: essentially there's this like long running campaign of like finding
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  Speaker 2: ways to slander us in any small way. It's sort
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  Speaker 2: of like they might as well be saying things like
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: you know, uh, hob goblin Andrew Tate followers are attacking
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  Speaker 2: the village like that. It's and it's it's just so
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  Speaker 2: that it puts in the head of people who don't
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  Speaker 2: know anything about this stuff, who aren't a part of
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  Speaker 2: these conversations. It's supposed to make them think, oh man,
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: those they must be bad. Whoever these men's rights activists are.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, they're basically like goblins. So yeah, so anyway,
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  Speaker 2: that that was the Yeah, go ahead.
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  Speaker 1: No, I'm just saying, yeah, that's uh, that's about it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, uh, it's a I mean, I
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: guess it's it's just sort of like shows like where
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: I like this Goblin was, say Patrick Stewart. It just
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  Speaker 2: kind of shows like you know, the the Absolutes. That
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  Speaker 2: doesn't it though, look at ye and Garage and Greaves
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  Speaker 2: the village.
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  Speaker 1: Well, it is actually really funny because you know, the
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  Speaker 1: goblins aren't evil, but everybody disagrees with the people who
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  Speaker 1: wrote this probably.
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  Speaker 2: Are yes right or or you know. And again, one
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: of the other things is that the purpose of games
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: like tabletop role playing games, the purpose, the primary objective
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  Speaker 2: is to immerse yourself in a world that is not
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: the world we live in. And if you if I
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: sit down at a table and I'm prepared to enter
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  Speaker 2: the fantasy world of Fey run and like delve in
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  Speaker 2: the dungeons and fight the undead or goblins or trolls
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  Speaker 2: or whatever. I don't want somebody bringing up modern day
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  Speaker 2: like polog Yeah, like they just throw it or just whatever,
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  Speaker 2: modern modernisms in general, you know, even if it's in
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: ways like oh you go to the Magical Cafe where
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: they make lattes, like I would be pulled right out
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: of the experience. It's ridiculous, but they do that. Now,
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: this is what these games are. It's not about escapism,
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  Speaker 2: it's about sort of like using it as a tool
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  Speaker 2: to reinforce That's why they do this. It's not an accident,
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  Speaker 2: in my opinion.
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  Speaker 1: Hmmm, yeah, yeah, no, I would agree that. And it's
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  Speaker 1: it's very disconcerting, Like you said, it's to see modern
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: politics in this. It's not just like it's not just
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: the fact that they're always seem to have a priority
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  Speaker 1: to frame us as evil and our opinions as of
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  Speaker 1: the devil, but also just how jarring it is. I
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  Speaker 1: could just imagine the normis being forced to contend with
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  Speaker 1: the existence of us. You know, you're just you're just
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: sitting down with your pizza pop and your and your
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: mountain dew and you're like, ah, game of D and
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  Speaker 1: D and then suddenly men's rights activists all over your
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: mental landscape, getting their their thought feelers into your into
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: your into your downtime. I don't know. I mean, at
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: the very least it increase there is one upside to this.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: It does increase our visibility.
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  Speaker 2: Well obviously it means that they're not able to ignore
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  Speaker 2: us anymore, or at least people who do the work
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  Speaker 2: that we do. But they really hate the fact that
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: they're that, like they have to take jabs at such
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: petty and low levels, you know. And in any case,
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  Speaker 2: so it's sort of funny to me. I mean, I'm
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  Speaker 2: not offended, like I'm not giving these people my money anyway.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's uh that that was basically the the
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: It's just the absolute state of this hobby. And of course,
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: like this is the thing. Like the only thing I
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: can say to this is that, uh, you we got
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: to gatekeep harder, guys. That's all. Like, I'm serious, not
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: even like whether you agree or disagree with what MRAs
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  Speaker 2: talk about, you have to understand you don't want this
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  Speaker 2: stuff in your game. It will come for something you
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  Speaker 2: care about. That's what they do like it's just an infection.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess, I guess what Brian is saying is
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  Speaker 1: that goblins are attacking or the Goblin Citadel.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because they that's right, that's right.
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  Speaker 1: We walked it to the Goblin Citadel and there were
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  Speaker 1: all these goblins attacking it by you know, running businesses,
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  Speaker 1: you know, having families, whatever thing you're doing. The goblins existed,
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  Speaker 1: therefore they're attacking whatever exist within.
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  Speaker 2: That's right, that's right.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, So shall we do the next article, which is, uh,
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: a pledge by the latest Star Wars.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, right right, this is not not this
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: is not new, but I because it came out January
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: of last year. Years but you didn't know that. It's okay,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: you didn't know this had happened. I think that we've already,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: like we may have already started to get the fruit
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: of these claims and and look that, uh, this is
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: just more of the same, the same things. Yes, the
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: power of one, the power of two, the power of many.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Although that's a different director, but it doesn't matter. It's
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: the same. You know. It's the theme right that runs
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: through it. It's the same themes. So this is an
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: older article, but it's new to Alison, so it's new
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: to you. It knew our Star Wars director wants to
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: make men uncomfortable with her films. Uh, so I.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Backed out with the election there?
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: Oh well yeah, I mean, I don't know are they
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: going to double down that, because they do they always do,
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: They always do. But I don't know if they will,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: like in light of the fact that Hollywood is on fire,
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: but we'll see, I mean, look.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Double down over. Oh did you actually did you actually
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: see that? This is pretty hillious?
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: Did you see.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: That that ad? The the de I the diversity Inclusion
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: equity and.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: As for firefighters or whatever, somebody who you should be
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  Speaker 2: saved by someone who looks like you? Yeah, yeah, No, no.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: No, you didn't see that, because if you did, you
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: would have you'd have immediately followed with because there it
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: was this. Okay, so let me just explain what this
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: ad was. It was it was sent through the patron discord.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: So if you guys want to join us, it's a
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Badger nation done online but essentially starred. I think a lesbian.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: I can't tell anymore. Me used to be able to tell.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: It might be a transwoman, could be a lesbian, but
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: someone who is basically part of the LGBTQ community. And
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: she said, and I'm making an assumption that she wants
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: to be referred to as she, so don't don't crucify
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: me for that because of the makeup. She said, people
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: should be able to be saved from fires by people
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: who look like them. And then she said, if some
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: woman says that I can't carry her husband out of
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: a fire, well what I say is, why was he
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: in that position to begin with.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: You?
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: And you made a mistake. Oh god, I have to
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: show this to you, Brian. You must see this.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: We are talking about the fires in California, right, I
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: don't know, really burning the Hollywood Sign, but I.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Don't know if this is in reference to it. It probably
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: is something that happened a little bit before. It is
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: just making an ad.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: For Well, send it to me through discord if you can.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, I can send you the Twitter link. I
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: don't know how well you are for being able to
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: show those, but I can.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: I think I can show it. Yeah, open it in
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: a new tab and then we can. Yeah.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: I know this is a bit of a digression from well,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: you know what. This is fairly entertaining in an incredibly
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: black comedy kind of way. Considering Yeah, I mean I.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: Take no pleasure in it, but it is what it is. Okay, Yeah,
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: so she was the DEI hiring officer. Yeah, I got
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: it right here. This is from attn, which is one
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: of those little like woke viral, you know websites that
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: like puts out little videos of progress. So let's let's
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: take a listen.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: You want to see somebody that responds to you how
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: your emergency, whether it's a medical call or a fire call,
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: that looks like you. It gives that person a little
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: bit more ease knowing that somebody might understand their situation better.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Is she strong enough to do this?
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: Or you couldn't carry my husband out of a fire,
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: in which my response is, see got himself from the
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: wrong place.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: If I have to carry them out of a fire, wait,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: oh my god. Only about five percent of working firefighters women. Yeah,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: maybe because they can't do the job. I'm sorry. This
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: shit gets people killed. It does the same This gets
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: people killed.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: This is so this is ridiculous. Here's the thing. If
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: you are somebody who says that trans women shouldn't be
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: in women's sports, you cannot have a problem with this,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: because if you can't handle being punched by a trans woman,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: you shouldn't be a firefighter at the very least. You
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: see what I'm saying. It is like you don't have
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: the physical ability. Five percent of working firefighters are women. Well,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: I would bet that even fewer than five percent actually
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: have the physical capability to be operating on the same
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: level as the average male firefighter.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Well, the thing is, too they always leave this out.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: They do the same thing with the military and police
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: and other sort of like intense physical, high risk jobs
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: or positions. Most men can't do that either. Yeah, this
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: is the thing, like if it's it's purely based in
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: merit and it just so happens that a very small
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: percentage of women are able to make it. But guess what,
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: most men can't do it either. I don't want a
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: firefighter that is like, let's say, you know, like a
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: fifty plus year old, obese Latino guy. He's not going
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: to be able to help me. I want, like, whatever
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: the best guy for the job is. I don't like
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: this idea that you need to see yourself and shit,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: it's so incredibly narcissistic. It is pathetically narcissistic. I can't
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: I like, why can't people see they should be ashamed
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: of themselves, like absolutely ashamed of yourself for that. Imagine
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: having the luxury to be able to be like I
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: wish the firefighter looked like me. When there's something like
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: a burning building and you need firefighters, you what they
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: look like should be the last thing on your mind,
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: the last thing. This is ridiculous, It's it's really it's
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: this is sad like attn You should be ashamed of yourself.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: This is pathetic.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: Sorry, it's not even that all of the DEI stuff.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: It's if you didn't want to be if you needed
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: to be carried out by fire. You got yourself in
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: the problem in the first place. It's your fault. It's like,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: I may not be able to carry that's ridiculous. Your
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: fault for getting yourself into the fire in the first place.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: You want to say that to the residents of the
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: of LA it's their fault.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Well, they don't, like they don't have water because Gavin
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: Newsom was trying to save some like two inch long
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: fish and he basically didn't allow like they cut funding
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: like by millions of dollars like this is entirely on
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: California government and Californians who voted for it. I mean,
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying that because I'm happy they're suffering. I'm saying, like,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: could they learn something from it? I pointed this out,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: like they spent more money promoting the fact that they
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: have like a lesbian fire chief or whatever than like
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: actually being able to fight fires. The virtue signaling is
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: destroying property and getting people killed as usual. And when
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: I point that out, some guy tries to fact check me.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: I went to bing and I found this. I'm like,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: fuck bing, Look at the people. Look what's happening on
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: the ground, Like this is what? Like they have rainbow
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: painted fire hydrants with no water in them, like the
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: jokes right themselves and nuts.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: So the vidual in the horizontal chat, which is interesting,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: mars Falcon says, baffling. Why so many folks spend so
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: much time panicking and fuming and raging over the existence
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: of different people, so many hours devoted to worrying about
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: others America men li si dude, Like I said, I
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: don't care what she identifies as. I don't care who
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: she wants to have sex with. My concern is that
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: she is blaming the victims of fire for her own
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: inability to do the work as a firefighter. Okay, that
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: that is that is insane, right, And if you if
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: they if people who are not sis hate het straight
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: men or I guess het is and straight is is redundant.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: You know, if they want to do this work, fine,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: can they do it?
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Make sure that happens, that's true. Can they do it?
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: And just furthermore, he's just misrepresenting our position because he
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: wants Yeah, furthermore.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Do they have the moral prerequisite for doing it? Because
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: when I hear that, I hear somebody who deflects responsibility
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: onto someone else. And that person shouldn't be in a
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: position of being responsible for the lives of others. Right,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: people who say I'm incapable of doing something, but if
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: you need me to do that thing, it's your fault
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: for getting in the in the situation in the first place.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Shouldn't be the one saving people. So right there, she
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: is excluding herself based on her own attitude. And that's like,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: that's what I'm calling out the rest who knows. All right,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: let's let's get back to that. I just I just
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: had to show you that, Brian, because.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: It was like, yeah, it like the least important thing.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Like I said it if people who are diversity hires
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: get to say things like that publicly, get to say,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I want to be a firefighter, but if I can't
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: do my job, it's the people who die because I
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: can't do my job's problem, Like it's their fault. Said,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: that's essentially what she's saying. If I can't do my
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: job as a firefighter and somebody dies as a result
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: of it, Well, why was he there in the first place?
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Like I mean, if we've had this logic with women,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: there would be we would launch another worldwide slut walk. Well,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: if you didn't want to have cat calls, why did
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: you wear the butt floss launch another SlutWalk? You know,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: like because that is victim blaming. Well what the hell
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: is this? People don't choose to have their houses burst
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: into flame and then be overwhelmed by carbon monoxide poisoning.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: They don't choose this stuff. And for a firefighter to say, oh, hey,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: I wasn't able to get your husband out, But why
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: was he there in the first I mean, really, the
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: problem is him. Why was he discriminating against me? Like, really,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: you know like, that's and if we are going to
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: allow people like this to pontificate like that, they should
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: absolutely not be in these positions of helping or saving
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: other people. The end, if you want to be a
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: DEI hire, you can't, well nobody wants to be a
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: DEI higher if you want to hire people like this
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: these individuals, they cannot have these excuses. They cannot have
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: this inborn excuse that if they are incapable of doing
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: their job, it's not their fault, it's the guy who's
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: been overcome by smoke inhalation's fault. They cannot be able
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: to deflect agency and blame. All right, let's keep going.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Well, the thing is what I think the ultimate thing
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: is missing here is that people become firefighters to fight
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: fires or do other firefighter duties, not not. They don't
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: become firefighters to be seen as firefighters. Look at me,
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: I'm a firefighter, right Like. If that's why you're going
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: into it, that's completely the wrong incentive. That's the wrong approach.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: You are there to serve this is like you know,
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: it's I mean that, it's just that simple.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: And the problem is that DEI hires people like this
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: don't come into this job with I am here to serve,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: to come with the attitude that I am to be served.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: I am to be seeing here, with her being.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: A lesbian, with her being black, if she is a
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: lesbian or a trans woman, if she's a trans woman,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: it's nothing to do with what she identifies with. It
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: has to do with her political outlook, her behavior, and
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: her attitudes. Hey, yep, if you had a six foot six,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: jacked black lesbian who could carry some woman's husband out
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: of a house, no problem with that. She can do
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: the job, that's fine. But this person who is part
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: of this initiative brings an attitude that she not of
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: service to others, but that others should serve her, and
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: that is a big problem. She choose lots to be
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: a firefighter, but she doesn't want to fight fires or
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: save people.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, get out.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Of firefighting, all right. Let's get to the article guard.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: All right, so that you and the are the Star
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Wars one. So all right, So this is like I said,
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: it's kind of old, but uh, and it has nothing
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: to do with The Acolyte, which is the show that
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: we are referencing this. I think this person is making
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: the next movie which hasn't come out yet, so it's
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: either not going to happen. Yeah. So anyway, Disney just
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: can't get out of its own way, and the Star
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Wars franchise, already running on fumes, is set to become
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: its next victim. It's already dead, guys. It's not even
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: next in line. It's dead. Throughout twenty twenty three, Disney
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: took hit after financial hit, with major franchise releases like
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Indiana Jones and The Marvels taking massive losses of the
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: box office. The Little Mermaid was another disappointment, and animated
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: films like Elemental and Wish were disastrous failures. Wish was
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: not Oh yeah, Wish was one of theirs. Yeah, all
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: of these were feminist movies, by the way, all of them.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: The Entertainment Studios live action version of Snow White, also
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: really awful before it's even out yet, was also hammered
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: by bad press after remarkably awful set photos leaked. Disney
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: even decided to push the film back an entire year
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: to distract from the negative attention. CEO Bob Iger tried
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: to walk a fine line after the backlash to the
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: company's obvious political positioning grew in twenty twenty three. On
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: the one hand, he acknowledged that the studio needs to
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: tone down its rhetoric while simultaneously claiming the company is political. Well,
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: based on who he and Lucasfilm hired to direct the
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: next film and the signature Star Wars franchise, it's clear
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: that it has not learned its lesson After the last
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: few entries were directed by jj Abrams and Ryan Johnson,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: who are both absolute hack failures. This next project, set
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: to be released in twenty twenty six, will be directed
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: by Charmin Obaid Chinoi and who would have ever guessed it?
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: She says, it's quote about time end quote, a woman
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: shapes quote, a story in a galaxy far far away
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: end quote. But even that doesn't hold a candle to
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: one of her most tone deaf remarks, Um so okay,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: so surprisingly, I'm just gonna skip the bit where they
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: talk about how Matt Walls posted a video on X
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: about it. But she she basically says, her primary objective
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: as a director is to make men uncomfortable. Makes perfect
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: sense for the leader of the most important franchise in
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: the Disney stable, where a sizable majority of the fans
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: are men, almost all of them. I mean Star Wars
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: is as a franchise, you know what, you could argue
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: primarily was aimed at families. It was boys and men
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: that attached themselves to it. And maybe that's because most
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: of the people behind it were men as well and
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: they were putting their own sensibilities in. But that it's
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: okay that something is targeting men or it appeals to men,
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with that, And I think that's one
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: of the fundamental issues we have, is that like people
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: expect that men just should not have anything, that it's
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: for them, that it has to be including women as well,
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: whereas on the if you flip it the other way,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: there is nothing that women are predominantly interested in that
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: men want to be a part of. So it's either
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: for women exclusively or it's for everybody. But anyway, a
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: great choice. As always, Kathleen Kennedy, the problem with oh
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: by Chinoi's remarks and say that ambitions isn't that she's
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: a woman directing a Star Wars film, that she wants
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: to make the films about her and her political beliefs.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: I don't really. I mean they go on to talk
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: about some other stuff. But that's kind of the we
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: haven't heard anything from this woman since that, you know,
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: that got out there. So I don't know if you
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: want to speak to this already or what you're muted
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: if you're trying to talk, yes.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Because I was drinking a glass of water, So I
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: don't think you guys need to hear slobbering and gulping.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Fair enough, that's not really our that's not our focus here,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: but just just sort of making you wits it's all right, well,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: and it's just sort of like an extension or a
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: continuation of that same attitude with the firefighter. It's not
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: I'm not here to serve people who are need to
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: be saved from fires. I'm not that kind of firefighter.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: I'm here to make a statement about who can be
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: a firefighter, not going to actually do the work, just
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: make a statement. I'm not here to direct a film
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: that the audience appreciates. I'm here to make a film
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: that they don't appreciate, so that they can appreciate the
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: fact that I am a director that they don't normally
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: see making films that they can see a director that
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: looks like whatever small subset of the population that they represent,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's like this attitude of
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: I'm going to assume this job and any aspect of
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: merit in the course of doing this job, I'm going
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: to regard as completely illegitimate. You can't judge me. I'm
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: going to be a firefighter. But if I can't lift
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: your thirteen year old son out of a fire, you
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: can't judge me for that. Just blame the kid forgetting
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: to smoke inhalation and being unable to wake up during
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: a blazing inferno and getting burt to a cinder. It's
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: not my fault. It's not my fault if I manifestly
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: fail in my job. It's everyone else's fault for holding
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: me to any kind.
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: Of standard, because people need to know that Star Wars
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: is directed by people who look like them.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: I wonder if she thinks that that films that men
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: tend to enjoy make women uncomfortable, because there it seems
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: like there's this revenge, like you know, vibe underneath the
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: surface of like I want to make men uncomfortable, And
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: it's like, well, why, like men don't want to make
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: women uncomfortable, Like if I want to go watch Rocky,
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: I mean Lindsay likes Rocky, so that might not be
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: a fair comparison. But if I watch a movie that's
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: for men, if I want to watch Predator, for example,
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: I don't think that women should be uncomfortable. I think
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: that they can enjoy it too. I could watch Love actually,
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: I mean I don't really want to, but you know whatever,
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: chick flick, Pretty Woman. I don't like chick flicks, you know,
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: because they tend to be like this weird kind of
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: wish fulfillment thing, and I don't know, it's a it's
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: sort of like a little bit too indulgent and selfish
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: in the way that the narratives are presented, whereas stories
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: about men are usually selfless, like they're making sacrifices, you know,
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: like war films or westerns or whatever. But anyway, I digress.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm just moving it.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Around because I want to actually move you up so
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: I can see you and not be looking away from
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: the camera. But my camera a little bit too, No,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: it's ye for so I need to be able to
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: change this layout so I can put you above mine
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: so I can actually see you without looking in weird directions.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: All right, So yeah, that's that's part of my issue.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: But no, it's like, yeah, that is a really good point.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Like I don't hear many male directors being like, I
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: want to make women.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: This is for the guys.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: We're gonna make women serious.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: No nobody does that.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: No, no one makes a priority in doing something like that.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: It's actually really toxic attitude if you think about it,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: and yet freely expressed given airtime, she's she's gonna have
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: a gigantic budget to make this, this movie, which is
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: apparently about making men uncomfortable, because that, in and of itself,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: making men uncomfortable is a virtue in this society where
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: women are expected to do so much emotional labor for men.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: It's a virtue to make men uncomfortable and feel unserved.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: It's funny, isn't it How they use this assumption that
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: women are expected to do something to explain why they
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: shouldn't have to do it at all. Yeah, anyway, but
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just it's just weird how that
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: is like that that this is this is seen as
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: a virtue make men uncomfortable, make the audience uncomfortable, right,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: do something that the audience hates with a property that
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: they love, that that that's a good thing. But what's
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: what else is interesting is it it pre preloads failure, right,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: So she's essentially making it so that if she fails,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: she has an excuse. That's what's so funny about a
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: lot of these so called boss boss bitches. Yeah, they
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: preload failure like they're they're already you can see them
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: already making an excuse for why they aren't going to
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: be able to live up to a standard. This is
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: what this is. It's like, you know what this is.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: It's like I can't write or direct really well. I
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: have no idea how to get myself to the point
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: of being able to write or direct well. So I'm
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: already weaving a narrative in which if I fail and
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: make people not uncomfortable but disinterested in my work, It's
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: not me being unable to haul a two hundred pound
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: man out of a fire. It's the fire's fault. It's
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: the man's fault, it's the audience's fault. I'm not the
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: one who failed. The world didn't revolve around making me win.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: That's the problem. And this mindset, like, you can't run
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: a society with this mindset. And I'm seeing it more
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: and more everywhere, And the people who have it are
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: like these ticking time bombs in whatever position they're in,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Like that one chief, Well, it's great that you think
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: it's not yours, not chief, but that one firefighter. It's
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: great you think it's not your responsibility to pull someone
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: out of a fire, to be able to do so.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: But injury lawyers may disagree if you end up leaving
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: someone in a fire because you're incapable of doing your job. Right,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: they still exist and they're still hungry for cases just
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: like this especially. I mean, this is just handing it
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: on the platter. Could you imagine the case put before
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: a judge. Yeah, this woman knew she couldn't do her job.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Her superiors knew she couldn't do her job. She boasted
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: about being unable to do her job, and then when
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: someone's life on the Alliant was on the line, she
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: didn't do her job. I think this county owes someone
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: twenty million dollars for what is it, uh, unlawful death,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: Like a for unlawful death or injury or manslaughter would
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: actually be a really good charge in that case. Right,
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: she thinks she's not responsible, she is now the director
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: is not a big as big a problem. She's just
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: gonna lose billions of dollars.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: That's eight millions for sure. Yeah, they're probably gonna spend
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: million dollars.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: You gotta wonder, You gotta wonder about these studio execs.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, I'm gonna hire a new hot shot director.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: Why don't I hire the one who's immediately right off
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: the back saying, well, if I suck and I lose
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: you fifty billion dollars, that is everyone else's fault but mine,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: and I totally plan to do that. By the way,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: I'm giving you a heads up that my plan is
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: to alienate your audience. So if we end up losing
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: a billion dollars or billion dollars, you already knew I
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: was gonna do that, so it's your fault for letting me. Like,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: and these studio cusecs are like, yeah, that's my woman.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: Get her, get her a little, get her to be
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: able to pull all the levers of power, like she
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: surely the flop will be spectacular. Like are they planning
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: are they like doing some sort of scam like accounting scam.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Where they know there is a lot of money laundering
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: in these massive I think that that's a big part
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: of it, is the money laundering. But I think that
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: like the director and some of the people who are
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: like the middle managers or the people at the bottom,
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: they don't know that. I think that the folks that top,
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: they're the ones that are money laundering. Art's been used
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: some money laundered for a very long time. But but
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: what I also think that a lot of people make
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: this mistake of thinking that markets can be created from nothing.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: So they just like, well, this thing has been popular
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: with men for like decades, why don't we just make
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: it popular with women? And they're like, how do we
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: do that? Well, why don't we make it unpopular with men?
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: That'll certainly make it popular with women. And then they
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: do that, they act on that, that's what they do
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: so that they think, oh, well, the only reason why
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: women aren't doing that, like buying this product is clearly
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: because they've never felt welcome here because of men. So
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: we just have to get the men out and then
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: the women will just come in droves. And of course
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: that doesn't work. It doesn't happen like women still like
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Star Wars about as much as they always did or whatever.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: In the brand is. They tried to make it, you know,
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: draw women and LGBT and blacks and whatever like purse
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: puppy groups. They want into all kinds of different intellectual
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: properties or franchises. By changing it so that the core base,
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: which was comprised of all of those groups but also
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: happened to include the ikey icky white men, they just
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: drove them all out of it, and they're like, now
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: it will be welcome to these other people, and of
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: course it never is. I mean they killed everything that
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: they've touched, which is like it's whatever, because they're no
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: longer relevant. Media, Hollywood is dying. Everything comes from the grassroots,
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: you know. Individual people are writing their own books, they're
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: making their own comics, they're doing their own shows and
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: movies and video games. It's all growing from the bottom
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: up because you know, these these people they think that
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: they can create. That's how that By the way, that
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: that tells you what they think about you as a consumer.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: That's what they think about you. They think you are
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: just an interchangeable economic unit. They can just take you
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: out of this thing that they don't think you should
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: like anyway, and they can just replace you with a
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: woman or whatever their you know, purse puppy is is
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: usually women though, and they put them in there and
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: they're like, now it's now, it's fixed. Of course, the
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: women they don't appreciate that either. They're just not aware.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: They're just like, well, I'm not gonna watch that, like
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: like they'll say, oh, I like that that has women
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: all over it, but I'm still not gonna watch it.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: But it's nice that you did that, you know what
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: The Marvel's movie, actually most of the people who watched
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: it were the male fans of of Marvel.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: Yes, and women. Yeah, that's exactly it, right, exactly, Even
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: the gigantic flop that was literally telling men, don't watch this,
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: it's not for you, like literally telling them that, and
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: it was a gigantic financial failure. Even then, the major
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: already of the people who went to watch it were men.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think no men should have gone. If
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: it was up to me, I would have said, guys,
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: don't give them any of your money. But men still went.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't enough. They weren't they they they it
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: wasn't enough to save it from itself.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: Well, as usual, when men tend to well, at least
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: in the last century, the men have tended to support
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: women's liberation more than women did, at least up until
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: like the seventies when they started the all of the
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: initiatives that ended up creating such a huge body of
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: single women. But Nick Clark says, this article is over
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: a year old. Yeah, this is for the defunct Ray movie.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there was gonna be another Ray trilogy, and I
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: guess they dropped the project. But I think it's in
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: kind of in limbo, like they're still talk about it.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean like it's not gonna happen. Well,
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's gonna happen. I think that Well,
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: I would hope that Disney would have gotten the message.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Like the gaming companies, for example, Triple A gaming companies,
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: they are losing money handover fist because of their terrible
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: decisions and because they this is the thing you take
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: your your audience or your customers for granted when you
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: presume that they will eat whatever slop you put in
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: front of them. And gamers have completely wised up and
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: most of them are just like not giving more money
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: to BioWare, Obsidian, Activision, Blizzard, you know ea, like whatever
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: it is. And that's good Bethesda, and I'm here for
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: it because that's what should be. There's plenty out there,
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: and so, like, you know, you these people they make
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: this terrible mistake of thinking that firstly, that they they
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: have their customers in their pocket forever and that they'll
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: never betray them, and that they can force markets on
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: people like this is the market. Now, we're gonna make
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: you like this thing. And they'll even use brand familiarity
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: to do it. Oh don't you want this? It has
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: like your favorite brand on it, you know, it's like
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: this is this is still Star Wars. It's like, you know,
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: some guy wearing the skin of a relative dancing around like, oh,
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: I'm still your uncle, Like why don't you give me
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: some money like that? And like no, we're not, We're
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: not doing it. We're not stupid, and besides, it's good
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: for us because we save money.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: The other thing is that when they why do they
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: choose women with such huge red flags, Like, surely there
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: are other women in the world who could do this
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: work that aren't going to preload failure. There aren't gonna
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: be like here, I'm already explaining how I'm gonna lose
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: you a billion dollars all right, how am my my
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: project is going to be a gigantic, flaming flop. I mean,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: do they have to go to women like that? I
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: guess they do because it's that kick of I'm gonna
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna give her something, and and you know it'sn't
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: that that's there's urge.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that there that that's definitely the simping
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: urge is there. But I also think that if you,
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: if you like, decide that this is the hill you're
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: gonna die on, you're gonna find yourself surrounded by allies
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: that you might regret, like, because you're gonna be like,
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: you're essentially engaging in the politics of resentment. And so
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: you're gonna be surrounding yourself with people who have resentment
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: and they want to work with you, but they kind
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: of hate you because they're just angry and broken people.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: And so like anybody who says I want to make
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: you know, content that makes men uncomfortable, like that's a
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: that's not a red flag, that's like a freaking you know,
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: one of those airplane pennants that has like a message
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: written on it, you know, do not hang out with me.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: I hate you, even though I don't know you right,
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: or like a good Year blimp with a it's not
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: just like a red flag. It's like a massive thing.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: And yet because they think, oh, well, the enemy of
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: my enemy, I'm gonna I'm gonna work with you. But yeah,
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: these people are inherently they destroy everything on purpose. Like
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: people in these industries have said that they what they
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: really want to do is burn it all to the
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: because they believe that something new will arise from the ashes.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: This is like written into their belief system. And some
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: people are just too naive to see that because they think,
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: who would want to do that? Yeah you know?
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: So?
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: Oh good lord, Yeah, so I just I just darted
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: off to get myself some more water for some reason.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: This is really thirsty work. Yeah, dealing with it, but
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: like again, like just don't you have anybody better to
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: give it to?
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: And and also they just don't like that men enjoy things,
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: but this is like that. That's that's why they would
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: ever go after female things like no one's no one's
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: gonna remake sex in the city and destroy it, like
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: they're gonna leave it there.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: They might they might remake it and destroy it.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know how would they destroy
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: it unless they make everybody lesbians and there's no men
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: in the movie at all. But I don't think that.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: But that could do that could do it? Actually they
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: could do that.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay maybe, but I mean but my own Like
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: I know that this is a director that maybe shuffled off,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: but this is consistent. How many times have we.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: Seen ideological problem? Yeah?
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: How many times have we now seen writing leads and
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: directors and all of this, these women or these these
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: people who have this ideological focus saying I'm here to
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: alienate the audience, like I'm here to make them uncomfortable
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: and to insult them, Like how many times have we
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: seen this?
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: And these are the people who are getting these jobs,
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: like they can't give this to somebody who wants to
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: make something that the audience enjoys, Like they can't. They
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: absolutely cannot find a single woman who wants that.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? Yeah? They always have somebody else
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: to blame though, so they never have to like learn
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: from what happened. They'll just be like, well they were
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: there was the audience were all chudds. Like, no, it
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: appears that no one seems to hate the customers of
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: a given franchise more than the people who are in
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: charge of said franchise, because they don't really want to
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: work on that. They want to change the world. They
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: think they're really important. You know, this is like a
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: thing that I see a lot.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're changing the world by making men uncomfortable and
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: also allowing men to die in fires. But that also
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: seems to be like a they have this attitude that
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: actually making men happy or saving their lives is like
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: is like a sin. Yeah, like it's the worst thing
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: in the world. You don't want to do emotional labor
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: for the male audience star Wars, Like, how dare they
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: should be doing emotional labor for the director? So if
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: she makes something that's just basically a cowf a lit
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: cow fart, you know, like sixty minutes of her ca
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: lighting cow farts and utah, and she puts it up
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: and says, this is my avant garde approach to Star Wars,
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: and every human being responds with, what the hell is
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: this shit? But she's made the men uncomfortable, So that's.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: What that was the goal that was. You know. I
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: think it just kind of is people who are just
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: kind of like unaware of their mediocrity in terms of
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: their ability to tell stories. And I think that that
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: comes because I think what's happening, honestly is the people
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: who were on Tumblr have gone into the world and
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: now they they're writing scripts and they're writing screenplays, and
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: they think that they're geniuses. Like literally, the woman who
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: wrote The Acolyte, Leslie Hedlund, who was the former personal
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: assistant to Harvey Weinstein, just saying she used to write
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: on Tumblr before she wrote for The Acolyte, and though
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: and some evidence of how people would get this in
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: their head that they're not. I'm not saying that people
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: who write and tumbler are all bad, but I'm saying
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of bad on there, Like most of
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: it's probably bad because like anything that you have to
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: get good at, you know, if everybody, if like a
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: bunch of people are doing the same thing, guess what,
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: only some of them are gonna do it. Well, most
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: of them are gonna do it pretty like piss poor
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: or average but not necessarily remarkably. And I think Leslie
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: Hedlund was on Tumblr writing her weird Wherewolf fan fictions
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: or whatever, and uh, And I'm not saying this to
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: be dismissive of where Wolf fan fictions. I don't care
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: what you're into, but I'm just saying there's a lot
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: of that kind of stuff, and you can and you
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: know this because, for example, one of the things that
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: that sort of deceives mediocre women of mediocre talent to
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: think that they can write screenplays are the successful things
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: that are also of mediocre talent, like Twilight and It's
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: and the fans based on that fifty Shades of Gray. Now,
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: fifty Shades of Gray was so popular, it was like
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: the best selling book in the world with women, and
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: then they made I don't know how many books did
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: she write? At least three, right, at least three. So
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: if you know that that fifty Shades of Gray is
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: Twilight fan fiction that came out of Tumblr, and you're
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: a woman who also writes on Tumblr, why wouldn't you
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: think you can have the next big hit? And Leslie
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: Hedlyn did. She was like, well, she became a millionaire.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know how much money the writer of fifty
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: Shades got, but I'm sure she's well paid. So she's like,
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: why couldn't I do it? And then she knew a guy,
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: Harvey Weinstein, who can get her a job. He gave
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: her the job she probably didn't have to do with
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: a lot of other women had to do, just because
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: she's not very attractive. But she ended up writing The Acolyte,
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: and in it, if you look at the interviews, she
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: is so excited about how deep this was going to
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: be and how big this project was going to be.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: She probably has not recovered from the fact that that
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: show is not getting a second season because nobody watched it.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: So it's like, you can one.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: Hundred and twenty million, one hundred and twenty million. That
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: probably also includes for the books and the and the
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: movie rights probably as well, one hundred and twenty million.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: They made all three of those movies. I think there
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: were three more.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: Off of that too, the sales of the movies and stuff.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: Or she might have seld the rights and didn't get
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: much from the sales, but yeah.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: She's Huney might have but I mean still like not bad.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, not bad for somebody who wrote
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: some fan fiction on Tumblr. Yeah, exactly, you know, but
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: that's kind of a lightning in a bottle moment. And
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: even then I think that, you know, it's I don't
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: I don't think that it is that that makes it
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: good fiction just because it made a lot of money.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: You know, No, no, and you're right, You're absolutely right.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: This is this is part of the corruption of storytelling,
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: is that this map a lot, this lightning in a
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: bottle happened, and now the publishing houses, not just the movie,
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: but also publishing houses. So novel publishers are trying to
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: find that same thing over again, and that's why they
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: have no mid list, Like they don't have the they
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: used to have, the authors that would would regularly put
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: out books that were well crafted, weren't necessarily going to
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: be a hit, but over time might make as much
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: money as a bestseller. Usually bestsellers make a ton like
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: the first year and don't necessarily make as much going forward.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: But these like midlisters would slowly because they would acquire
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: an audience and cultivate an audience, and over time they
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: would make that money. And they're gone because the publishers
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: don't want to cultivate that kind of talent. I mean,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: you might have an author who is good at certain
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: aspects of storytelling and then they work with an editor
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: to get the rest of it up to speed, right,
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: and or they improve over time. They don't want to
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: do that anymore. They want the big one hit one.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: They want the big hit wonders, like like fifty Shades
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: of Gray, And so they're they're pumping out all of
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: this stuff poorly edited. They don't actually mentor writers anymore,
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: so they don't give them the support they need to
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: develop their talent to become a good, solid midlister. And
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: everything is about debut authors and the big names that
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: already existed like twenty years ago. Like there's no very
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: few new big names coming up because they don't have
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: any midlisters to draw from really, So it's like it's
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: totally changed the landscape. It's totally forced it towards like
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of erotic and romance tropes.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: As absolutely, yeah, it's important.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: It's saturating women. Yeah, Essentially, the whole literature landscape has
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: become porn for women, and there's.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: Very little thing is we don't consider it porn because
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: no one's talking about banning it, like you know, like
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: like visual porn like videos and stuff. Everybody's you know,
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: getting their pearls clutched and shit like because men they
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: tend to watch the visual stuff but when it comes
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: to the literary porn, nobody's saying we got to put restrictions.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: Nobody's talking about that because it doesn't like it's women, Like,
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: how could that possibly be a problem. So I'm just
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: throwing it out there. It's just kind of a weird thing.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: The other thing is that a lot of these female creatives,
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: and this is in particular, like in these places where
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: they post writing and also art, there's no real criticism
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: of what they're seeing. Like I saw Alec Alex date
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: psych and this might be slightly insulting, but he posted
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: something like, oh show us your your hobbies. And there
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: was a woman who was posting her art and I'm like,
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: but everybody was giving her so much praise, right m hm.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: And it's because she's part of that ideological group and
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: they want to make her feel good. And it's like, well,
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: women get too much praise just in general, and they
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: can tell their too much praise.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: You tie your shoes all by yourself, you go, girl, queen.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just way too much praise, and especially in
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: these writing groups like you, if you want to be
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: a good writer, you have to seek out people who
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: will tell you what doesn't work, and that's not what
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: you see. So you get these women who are promoted
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: well above their competency, and they start spinning a narrative
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: even before they've created anything, they start spinning a narrative
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: about how their failures are are men's fault. Usually even
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: before they've even created anything and failed, they're already spinning
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: a narrative about, Oh, it's the evil, toxic nerd men
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: who are gonna preemptively destroy my work. It's not because
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: I suck and don't know how to get better. It's like, yeah,
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: and I was going to talk about jj Abrams as well,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: because we were on the subject of Star Wars and
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: things sucking, because it's not just it really isn't Ah, Okay,
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: I will make my argument because I totally agree. I
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: totally see where you're coming from. But I'm going to
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: say that I think that he is a victim of
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: something I'm seeing more and more, which is which is
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: the absence of like the virtues of merit, which are
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: when you create something and you're trying to seek excellence,
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: you look to where you're falling short and try to
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: fix it. See what I'm saying. And while I sort
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: of agree with you that he does do a lot
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: of hack work. There is at least some evidence that
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: he has tried to say, hey, I know I have
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: a problem with this, that and the other. I want
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: to get better. The problem is that he isn't getting better.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: So is it is it that he's not genuinely seeking
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: to get better, or is it because there's no one
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: there who knows how to There's nobody in the industry
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: anymore who understands craft so that they can direct him,
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: or is willing to criticize because this is like when
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: you get to a certain stage of success, it seems
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: to be very difficult to find people who are willing
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: to criticize you. And he had a few really successful films,
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: I believe, and the first Star Star Trek, for example,
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: was actually pretty good. You know, it wasn't it. It
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: was deviating and what I would think was the story Yeah,
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: it was the story question. I wouldn't call it the spirit,
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: but the general story questions of Star Trek, right.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: So the JJ Okay, I'm gonna just put this out
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: there for the chat. So I'm not a Star Trek person.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: I did watch the original series occasionally because it was
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: it wasn't really a phenomenon when I was a kid,
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: but it would be on TV, the one from the sixties, right,
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: and I would catch reruns and I thought it was fun,
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: but I wasn't following because I was a little too
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: young to understand what the depth of it was. But
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: I do know that Star Trek as a show it tonally.
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: It's not like Star Wars. It wasn't meant to be
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: like that, or say, you know, Buck Rogers or what
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: was the one battle Star Galactica, Like, It wasn't like those, right,
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: but it had its own thing. And I think that
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: when JJ Abrams made his Star Trek movie, I think
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: he was trying to make it feel like something that
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: had a broader appeal. So he filled it with more
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: comedy and action and maybe a little bit of slapstick
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: and you know, a little sex appeal. But I think
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: that true diehard Star Trek fans, not just the ones
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: that watched the original series, but the ones that grew
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: up on like the next generation Deep Space nine, what
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: was the other one Voyager, I think that they were
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: expecting something of that level of There was like a
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: different vibe. It was like more sort of sophisticated and diplomatic,
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: but there was like, you know, they the science was
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: at least trying to be serious, and I think Abram
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: Star Trek was very like popcorny, and so that's what
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: people didn't like about it. I enjoyed it as a movie,
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: but I don't I can see the criticisms from Star
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: Trek fans.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, let me let me put it this way,
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: the reboot Star Star Trek. I enjoyed it. I agree
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: that it's missing something Star Trek. It's missing story question.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: Like people bring up like Deep Space nine as being
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: like the counter because it's a little more gritty and
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: a little more I don't want to say nuance, but
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: like it's really testing the kind of uh utopian not
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: I don't want to say necessarily utili.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: I know you, I think I know what you mean.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: I've never seen d Space nine, but like that's the
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: one with Cisco the black guy, right, and we're trying
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: to Yeah, the stories were sort of like challenging because
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: the Star Trek future is kind of utopian, like, you know,
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: we we don't have we don't worry about money anymore,
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: we don't worry about like all these little civil rights issues.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: We're all like that, it's all about. That's the difference
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: is that in the Star Trek world, you have like
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: this federation and everybody is like working together, and it's
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: sort of like we've we've done the thing and now
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: we're just trying to We run into small you know,
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: like issues here and there, but for the most part,
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: everything is orderly and we're just maintaining this order, whereas
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: Star Wars about a struggle against like a you know,
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: tyrannical force. So that's why they're different vibes. But in
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: Deep Space nine that I guess they're trying to show
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: that it's not perfect and there are all of these
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: other issues, which it's actually kind of a compelling approach, right.
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, but they're they're starting to show more of
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: the compromises necessary to maintain that kind of a future
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: on the frontier, where other cultures maybe don't want that
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: that that particular approach. So it's like it but at
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: the same time, it's it's happening in the same universe,
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: but it's almost like it's another spot in that universe.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: It's not actually denying the fact that you know, these
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: other the other parts of the Federation are more an
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: expression of these kind of ideals, right, It's just that
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: in this particular circumstance they have to contend with something
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: that's a lot more gritty, you know, And that's I
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: think that can work within it because it's it's like
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: testing those ideals against something that's a little more challenging.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean that the ideals aren't there. It's
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: that they have to make more compromises in order to
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: try to aim for them, to continue to build them.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: And I don't mind that, Like, I don't mind I
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: don't think that's that outside of the concept of Star Trek,
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: because I honestly don't think that Star Trek is necessarily
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: about that kind of true, like super positive human ideals.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: I think it's more about the striving towards them, for one.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: And it's also about a more like intellectual questions and
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: existential questions, like philosophical questions of what is right and
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: what is moral and how we should conduct ourselves as
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: human beings. And I don't see that as much in
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: in the world in that one, I don't I'm going
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: to separate the initial reboot Star Trek just.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: A Star Trek remake the first Start into Darkness.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm going to separate those two and I'm
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: just going to talk about the first one because I
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: think that was more successful for what it was.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: It was, it was the most successful of the three.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: Like the third one was it called Beyond Holy Cow
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: but the Beastie Boys soundtrack, But you didn't like it.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know, I just I look again,
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: I'm not speaking as a Star Trek person, like I'm
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: not a Treky. I didn't grow up with it, really,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: but just based on I get I just got the
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: sense that those movies were those Star Trek movies are
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: hated by most Trek fans. I know that Dave Cullen,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: who is a big Star Trek guy, he just shit
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: all over those movies because he felt that they were
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: very disrespectful. And I get that. I didn't grow up
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: with that. But the thing is, what I think was
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: really going on was, again, you know Star Trek films
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: before the remakes, there have been a lot of them,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: would varying degrees of success, but for the most part,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: they were niche like you. You were. People who watched
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: those movies were people who were Star Trek fans, right,
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: and the only one that was most the most popular,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: the most well known is The Wrath of Khan, which
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: is the second Star Trek movie, the original not in
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: the you know, Into Darkness is basically a remake of Rathakon,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: but like a really bad one. But yeah, but Ratn
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: is the success one. And the only reason why is
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: because it firstly, it calls back to the original show,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: and secondly, it's just Moby Dick. So when you're when
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: you're taking like a classic work of fiction and you're
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: doing a spin on it, you you're gonna enjoy more success.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: And the same way that Predator is just bio Wolf,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: which it is, the Ratha Con is just Moby Dick,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: and Con is Captain Ahab, And if you look at
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: it that way, it's like, oh, yeah, this works. That's
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: why anybody could watch it. I didn't even know that
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: that he was a callback to the old show until later,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: So yeah, well, I take like, I'm not gonna I'm
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: not gonna defend this as like as necessarily perfect reflections
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: of what Star Trek is, because again, I think that
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: the story questions that Star Trek asks and answers are
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: much more existential and philosophical than in any of the reboots.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it's going to lose that. I'm gonna look
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: at it for what they are. The first movie I
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: think was to some degree a little bit more. One
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: of the problems that JJ Abrams has is he really
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: suffers with consequences, like, there's all this stuff happening, but
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: what are the consequences, which means that nothing that really
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: happens on screen has any weight. And part of the
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: reason why I think he suffers with that is there's
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: when you're writing a story, there's a basic structure called
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: scene and sequel. So a scene will start with the
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: statement of a goal by the protagonist of the scene.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: It will proceed with the protagonist seeking that goal, experiencing obstacles,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: and then it will end with whether or not the
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: protagonist achieved their goal. And unless you're at the climax
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: or towards the end, the answer to that should be
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: either know, the protagonist did not achieve their goal, or yes,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: they did achieve their goal, but some other disaster happened
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: as a result of that. And then after you have
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: the scene which begins with the statement of the goal
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: and ends with whether or not the protagonist has achieved
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: that goal, or if it's gotten worse, achieved that goal.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: And again, if it's not a climax, your protagonist doesn't
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: achieve the goal until the climax, right, So they either
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: fail to achieve their goal or they achieve that scene goal,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: but it makes everything else worse, right, so they have
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: to deal with that. And then following that, the protagonist
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: internalizes what just happened, so they have their emotional response
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: to what has occurred. They go through the thinking process,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: they go through a decision process, and they establish a
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: new goal which then becomes the next seele And then
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: you go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth,
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: back and forth. The problem that Abrams has is that
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: he really has difficulty with going from action so a scene,
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: to an internalization. And the internalization is where all of
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: the story questions come in. So what just happened and
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: how does it matter in the overall scope of the story.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: So you have a scene, you know, you fight off
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: the balrog or whatever, you go and you think about
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: it all, right, so what has occurred? What is the
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: next what is the next step? And then is that's
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: when you would start to pull in your questions about philosophy,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: your questions about which approach is the most appropriate for
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: dealing with the overall conflict and stuff like that. That's
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: where the story question starts to be contended with. But
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: Abrams always skips that when he's dealing with action, like
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: you watch his movies, not the first Star Trek. I
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: don't know what it was happening there. I think maybe
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: someone was leaning very hard on him. Watch Into Into
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: the Darkness, Into Darkness. He cannot stop and let people think,
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: and because.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: He has to keep he has to keep you moving.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I think that there's like this idea,
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: and I don't think it's I don't think it's true.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: But I think Hollywood thinks that the average moviegoer is
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: like this, you know, ADHD, twelve year old, And I
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: don't that they can't like they can't sit still, like
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: they watch, you know, like they watch thirty second TikTok videos,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: and so when they go to the movies, that's what
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: they need, that kind of like constant simulation. I don't
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: think that's true. I think that that's an arrogant assumption
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: to make about people who like movies, especially people who
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: like Star Trek. You know, like, I mean, but at
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: least that you know, this is why you get like
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: like films that you know were considered like people will say, oh,
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: this was a flop or whatever because maybe it wasn't
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: well marketed or what have you, but then later on
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: become like these cult hits that everybody watches over and
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: over and they talk about and they discuss, even though
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: the film itself didn't move at a breakneck pace. I mean,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: why is it? For example, Blade Runner is still talked
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: about today, Oh what version do you like? What do
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: you think about this? Or whatever? But the movie moves
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: very slow, like it's not it's not like an action
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: packed you know, high octane, you know, action fast, and
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: yet movies that are that often do just sort of disappear.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: I don't remember any of the Transformers movies. I think
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: I watched like one of them and I was like,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: I'm not watching these and I got dragged to that
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: I didn't want to watch it.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: But yeah, and you'll find you'll find the reason why
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: you don't remember is because when you when you have
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: a scene, you need to have that internalization and that
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: reflection on the greater story question so people understand the
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: meaning of what they just watched. And if you watch
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: something and there's no meaning to it, it's completely forgettable.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: Like I've I watched all of the Star Treks, ah
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: the reboots. Yeah, and I don't wear anything of the
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: second one, Like I almost immediately forgot everything that happened,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: and there is no meaning to any of it.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the second one and to some degree the third one.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: They have a lot of moments, but there isn't a
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: lot of things that connected, and you have to do
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: the viewer has to like do a lot of the work,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: like when when they reveal that it's calm, like what
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: you know that Benedict Cumberbann or whatever reveals that he
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: is con It doesn't hold any meaning to anyone in
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: the movie. Only the people that know it from the
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: movies before that are watching the movie will be like, oh,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: that's con And that was predictable too, by the way.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: We like we called it before it came out and
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: they were trying to tell us, no, it's not, and
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: then of course it was. But it didn't mean anything
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: because there was nothing, There was no setup at all.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: They just they just put him in there. And I
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: think it was because I mean, I'm not gonna say
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: this is JJ Abram's fault, but but somebody there was thinking, oh,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: we'll just put all the stuff people like in this,
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: Like what do Star Trek people like? Oh that Klingons.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: Le's put Klingons in there. Even though they were like
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: like wearing like you know, potato sacks and they were
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: running around alleys and stuff, they weren't like these proud
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: you know, sort of almost like Samurai like from them,
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: you know, from before. But say they were just cramming
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: it with stuff that they like from Star Trek. Oh
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: don't you like it when this happens? And they just
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: put that in there? And I think that's where it
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: missed out. But I will say with regards to Abrams,
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: I think the issue is is that nobody told him
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: that this was a bad idea. Because what it's like,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: I bet the environment there, this is something I heard
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: about that happens in Triple A Gaming studios, is this
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: environment of toxic positivity where nobody is ever wrong and
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: everybody just encourages everybody else and like blows smoke up
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: each other's asses. They feel good about what they're doing
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: until the product is out and nobody likes it. And
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: then they're surprised, like, how coop. I mean, everybody I
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: know told me it was great. It almost be your fault, right,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: So I mean.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: Quickly get here before we continue, can you pop up
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: what I just sent you on on discord discord because
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: people are like, oh, this this article is not is
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: not no longer relevant because it's old. And it's like
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: when we're not talking about the article, people think we're
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: talking about the article. But but the other thing is
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: we do have a super chow as well. So someone
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: managed to send us a super chow and since they did,
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: I might as well tell you guys, if you want
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: to send us a message, feed the Badger dot or
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: if you want to send us a tip, and if
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: you'd like to add a message to that, it's feed
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: the Badger dot com slash just the tip. So once again,
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: that's feed the Badger dot com slash just the tip.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: If you want to send us a tip and a message. Yeah,
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: that's a little better. Now, maybe we won't get so
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: many people swanming in and saying, oh, that's an old article.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: You know it is it is, it's still sort of
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: still an old phenomenon.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, but it's gonna we're look, there's there's
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: you know, how we were talking about lag with regards
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: to like law, there's lag with regards to these kinds
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: of releases. So you know, yeah, people are saying like that,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: like basically, stuff that's been in the works since like
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty three or twenty twenty two or even twenty
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: twenty four is gonna come out. So we're gonna expect
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: more trash for a while before, you know, because even
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: though we see that like these people should know by
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: now that this stuff isn't profitable, whether it's because of
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: the you know, lazy propaganda, or because it's just the
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: quality isn't good, which is probably more of what we're
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: dealing with. They're not they're not done feeling the staying
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: of that because they've already invested so much. That's why
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: a lot of these like snow White got pushed back again.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: They're probably doing reshoots again, but they can't save it.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: It's over, like they're just spending more money on a flop.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: So yeah, well, they don't understand what women want. They
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: just want to make men uncomfortable. But the thing is
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: that men are just going to walk away it's it's
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: only women who are going to be who're going to
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: get up in arms if you make them uncomfortable. Yeah,
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: men are just going to walk away and stop spending
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: money on whatever you're creating. But you know, like ultimately,
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: like I think, like I'm I'm going to be very generous.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: I think that the first in the in the third
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: reboots were actually pretty good. I'm not sure if I
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: would qualify them as really solid Trek though.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: What if they were just like science fiction stories that
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: had nothing to do with Star Trek. I think that
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: they would work if they were just some new ip,
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: some new idea with some of the same archetypes in it.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that that would be And I think maybe that's
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: what they were doing with saying that this is another
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: like parallel dimension.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah well they did. Yeah they talk about alternate timelines
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: and stuff. But yeah, that's why they had Leonard Demoy
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: in the first one. But the thing is, if they
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: had just I think that they probably could have made
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: a completely unique science fiction setting, maybe look at something
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: different for you know, inspiration, and then they wouldn't even
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: have to sort of, you know, find a way to
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: explain it, because that's what Leonard Demoy and the whole
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: alternate timeline thing that was there specifically so that Trekkis
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: wouldn't get upset. They were like, oh no, look here,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: here's here's your favorite guy, Remember Spock, remember him, Memba.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: He's gonna tell you why this is okay and you
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: have to go along with it. And so. But if
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: they've just done something original, I mean, I'm.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: Even okay with them rebooting it as Trek, Like I'm
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: gonna just be a total philistine and just look at
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: it in terms of what it is and just and
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: like that's I say that because I'm not going to
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: be the kind of person who's necessarily a true purist.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: And I'm sure that a bunch of purists are getting
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: really upset at me about this. I'm going to look
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: at it for the storytelling merits of what it is
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: and what it's presented as and how well they employ
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: the member varriys to create something that's entertained me entertaining
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: rather than try to guild a turd. And I, like
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: I said, I feel that the first one is good,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: the third one is good. The third one is good.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: The second one is slop a mess. It's a mess.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: And again I think it's a mess because jj Abrams
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: has a real aversion to working his sequels. It moves
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: too fast. And the funny thing is is that there
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: are moments where you can really see another better story
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: coming out. And for example, like in the first part
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: of the second movie, there's this sequence where you follow
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: this person who works at a starfleet archive and he
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: has a daughter that's very sick and he's approached by
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: Kahn to bomb the archive, and that whole sequence no words.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: This storytelling is totally carried visually and it's well done.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: It's like this little vignette's well done, The vignette at
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: the beginning of the first reboots well done. So jj
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: Abrams can do internalizations, or at least he can present
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: them visually. But for whatever reason, once he starts on
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: the tailspin of action, he can't stop. It's like he's compulsive.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: And then also somebody needs to tell him to stop
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: with the it's awful.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah down, Well, he has this thing because you know, j.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: J Abrams made that show Lost, right mm hmmm, that
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: everybody loved, and one of the reasons why people were
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: so hooked on Lost was because they felt like there
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: was gonna be this massive payoff, right, there was this
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: mystery and that's like his he's known for this things.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: They call it the mystery box where he's setting something
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: up and people presume that something like you know, mind
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: blowing or really like Revelatory is gonna happen. But the
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: problem is is that he spent so much time building
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: up the mystery box that he doesn't ever end up
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: delivering because it either because he's not able to do it,
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: or because he's built it up so much that he
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: couldn't possibly satisfy the audience. Because it's and that's what
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: he did. He did that, And so the thing about
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: Star Wars, I can't talk about those movies. And someone
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: loves the original trilogy and the prequels, I'll I'll say
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: the thing about Star Wars with the same problem. Because
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: he was setting something up in the Force Awakens, there
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: was definitely a lot of like, oh, you will learn
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: about this later. There was a lot of this kind
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: of teasing and there were these threads that he was
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: putting out and you and and the idea was to
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: make you think this is all leading somewhere, but it didn't.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: Most of it did go went nowhere. And some people
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: might say, well, that's because he wasn't involved with the
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: second film, the last Jedi, that was Ryan Johnson, and
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: then they brought him back for the third film, Rise
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: of Skywalker. But I don't think it's that. I think
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: that he never had a plan. He was just making
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: things up as he went along, had no idea what
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: he was going to go with. It was hoping that
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: he would have some idea by the end, but never
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: got there because they ended up giving the second movie
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: to Ryan Johnson, who basically took everything that he built
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: up and threw it all out because it wasn't going
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: to go nowhere anywhere, and he was like, I'm going
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: to subvert everything, and so he just subverted everything, and
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: they were left with a gigantic mess of somebody who
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: had nothing in the beginning, no story, just a bunch
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: of like maybe threads and like you know, wait and
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: see bulls. And then the second movie where the guy
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: just throws everything to the trash and kills everybody off
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: and just says fuck it to everything, no rules, and
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: then they were like, okay, so we got to take
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: what we did, all the damage from these two movies,
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: and we got to make something coherent and there was
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: no way. So those movies were doomed from the start
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: because Abrams did not have a plan. And I think
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: that that and that was what happened a loss when
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: they finally Like I didn't even watch the show, but
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: I know people who were super into it. But when
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: it ended, I don't know anyone that was satisfied with
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: the way that show ended. And that's the same. So
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: it's like, somebody should The thing is, somebody should tell
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: him that. I'm sure he could do something decent if
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: he had the humility to say, I don't know what
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: I'm doing. Somebody helped me, you know, Yeah, well he did.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: It's just that he didn't seem to Actually, I don't know.
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: You didn't get the help or he didn't listen to
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: the help. I don't know what happened. He actually did
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: take responsibility for the problems that he has, he didn't
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: change them, and like the first start would be just
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: to And the thing is that I say this, but
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: I also have the same issue. I had to I
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: have to make a conscious effort to put in sequels
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: and internalization into my writing. I have to make a
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: conscious effort to do that, and nobody apparently, either he's
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: not genuine in his humbleness over his problems with his
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: storytelling and he doesn't really want it's just a false humbleness,
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: or there's nobody out there in Hollywood who can take
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: him aside and say, okay, jj Abrams, Abrams, what you
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: need to do is just let your characters react the things, yeah,
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: and think about things, not just constantly be in motion.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: And that's one of the big things that are different.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to go back to Star Trek story, Brian.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: The big thing that's different is that between, for example,
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: the Wrath of Kahn and Into Darkness, is that in
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: the Wrath of On Kirk is thinking, you know, something happens,
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: he thinks about it, he comes to he develops a
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: plan with the original Wrath, Yeah, the original Wrath of Khan.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot of process where he's thinking about
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: the problem that just happened, and sometimes, you know, the
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: whole initial thing is that he didn't raise his shields
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: while approaching Kahn's vessel, even though Christy Ally's character Savok
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: told him to, well, you know, and he actually takes
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: responsibility for that, and then he spends time thinking about things.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: Something happens, he thinks about how to get around it,
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: how to deal with that, and how to develop a plan.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: And that creates a character that's more intellectual than anything
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: in the reboots. Really just somebody who's planning, thinking, considering,
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: and then comes to another plan. So it's a very
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: like the original Wrath of Khan is like watching a chess.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: Match mm hmm between two smart.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: People and and you know, there's a back and forth,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: there's losses and wins, and then of course Kirk wins
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: at the end with but unfortunately it's at the sacrifice
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: of Spock's life. Spoilers that's if you.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: Haven't seen the Wrath of Khan.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: But Into Into Darkness doesn't have any of those moments
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: where the characters something happens and the characters are chewing
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: it over and trying to figure out their next move
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: and how do Yeah, I.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: Mean that, that's that's what I That's what I guess.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: One of the things I'm talking about is that if
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: they knew they were doing an adaptation or like a
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: remake or sort of like an homage to the Wrath
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: of Khan, why didn't they If they watched The Wrath
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: of Khan. Why didn't they absorb that? Because there the
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: Wrath of con is like it's theatric in the way
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: that is presented. There's there's you just sense it. It's
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: just like a lot more love went into it, a
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: lot of heart and and it did like did they
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: watch it and say what did these guys get right?
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: What do we have to do? Instead of just saying, oh,
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: I see you know Spock diyes, so let's kill Kirk
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: this time. Let's just flip it, you know, But they
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: didn't even like think about like that's That's not the
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: important part. It's all the stuff that leads up to that,
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: Like that's like that that's like the period at the
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: end of the statement, right, It's like, I don't know,
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: it's it's wild. But again I think that there and
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: that might be purely from a lack of appreciation for
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: what came before, because like I talk about, I watched
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: spaghetti westerns. I love spaghetti westerns, right, and I watched
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: them with Lindsay sometimes and we watched the Dollars Trilogy
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: and I was saying to her, well, you know, these
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: are based off of old Samurai films. From before, and
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: you could tell because they were even in a lot
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: of ways, there's a lot of the same like sort
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: of like you know, soul from those old samurai films
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: that got into these spaghetti westerns. But the funny thing
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: is is that a lot of the samurai films were
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: also inspired by westerns. So it's like this thing that like,
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: you know, it feeds. It's like a leap frogging thing,
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: and it's kind of cool because that's part of the evolution.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: Like I mean, you know, spaghetti westerns wouldn't exist if
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: it weren't for original westerns and then samurai films, and
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: then there were samurai films inspired by spaghetti westerns that
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: came after that, you know.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, anyway, No, it's the segues are fine.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: I think that some people have said that The Wrath
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: of Khan is itself sort of almost anti Trek because
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: it's much more about revenge and a personal conflict between
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: two characters. But one of the issues that I would
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: have with that is again it first of all, it's
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: examining the consequences of a novel technology, which is the
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: Genesis device, which can be used as a weapon or
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: a way of creating life, and it all also sort
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: of examines it. It also presents these two characters as
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: again being very intellectual in their contest, which I think
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: that that's that's much more in a Star Trek realm,
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: because I think with Star Trek things are about thinking
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: about the consequences and thinking about and you know, for
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: most of the original series, Kirk was he did think
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: about the things that he got into and think his
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: way out of it and then create a trick you know.
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was an admirable leader. I think one of
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: the things about the the.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: He was a tricky leader.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: Yes, he was like Odysseus. That's a good that's a
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: good way to put it. One of the things that
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: I think that the modern Treks miss is that they
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: kind of like don't see they don't appreciate the the
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: tactical mind of Kirk. They just see him as he's
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: almost presented like just like this, you know, hot shot
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: womanizer that's rebellious and like doesn't like authority. And but
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: they then know some of those things are there in
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: the old Trek, but like a lot of it is
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: like why do people respect him as a leader, you know,
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: why do they look to him for and they they liked.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's some it could there could
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 2: be a little bit of missery there, like, oh is
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: this this is the this is the captain we don't
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: like because he's a womanizer, even though yeah, he's like
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: you know, the ladies like him. That was just that
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: was never a product of the of the of the
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: you know, of like what is a heroic male, Like
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: how do you show if someone is a successful heroic male?
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: One of those ways? One of them is that there
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: are women who are drawn to him. That's yeah.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: The thing is that the way that that was presented
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: in the original was more like the costs of becoming
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: a starship captain and being temporarily not not necessarily just
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: the woman, but the idea of an ordinary life being married,
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: you know, father which and having a wife, that kind
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: of thing. So I don't know if it was necessarily womanizing,
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: especially not like it was presented in the in the
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: reboot right exactly.
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: No, No, no, I think it was mostly like you know,
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: like the it was, it was definitely more of a
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: Hollywood thing, like they were he was enamored and they
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: would be enamored with him, and and then that something
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: would it be like almost like a James Bond figure.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: Then that's kind of what I get. And I think
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: James Bond, you know again he gets a bad rap
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: like they know he's it's like none of that's true,
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: Like watch those movies and pay attention, right, yeah.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: Pay attention, pay attention to him.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: Manipulated ones, the old ones, Yeah, the old ones.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: The goldfinger is the only thing he had in his
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: in his car, in his hand was the ability to
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: seduce pussy Galore. That's it. Like he was he was
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: her prisoner. He was completely under her power at that point.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: So all he literally had was the ability to his
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: to seduce this woman. Yeah, put her to get her
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: on his side, and that was it, And people don't
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: recognize that. And then you know, it's it's a little
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: bit like that with You're right, it's a little bit
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: that kind idea is a little bit more of where
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: Star Star Trek approached Captain Kirk. But yeah, in the reboots,
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: he's sort of a generic, rebellious, over sexed male Hollywood lead.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: And I think.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: That's what the filmmakers think that Kirk is. That's that's
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: how that's why I think, like did they even watch
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: a lot of the old content or they just know
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: of it? Okay, because every everyone like you know, like
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: maybe with some like I'm not sure about it.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: He literally said. J. J. Abrams literally said he was
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: taking off more of the cultural consciousness around who James T.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: Kirk was rather than the original work. And I mean
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: there was moments where it's sort of like in the
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: first movie. And this is why I distinguish between the
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: first movie and the second movie, And I think the
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: second movie is much more of a failure. In the
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: first movie, kur Kirk actually is intelligent. He has to
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: solve problems. He's the one who makes the connection between
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: his father's death something that you her overhears while she's
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: listening to deep space anomalies and the the starfleet being
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: baited into the attack on on Vulcan. So essentially the
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: nero who's the who's the big bag bat of the first.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: Film Eric Bana base Tattoos for some reason.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, he's baiting the the Federation into a situation,
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: into a trap, and Kirk is the one who figures
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: it out. And he figures it out by piecing all
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: of these things together. Then he goes to his mentor,
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: Christopher Pine, and tries to explain that this is happening
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: and he has to prove himself. He has to prove himself.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: By being is the actor who plays Kirk.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, sorry, Yeah.
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: Also the that's also the best character in the Wonder
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: Woman movie is Chris Pine.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: But anyway, go ahead, Okay, So he has to explain
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: this to the captain. It turns out that he's correct,
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: So his intuition and his intellect actually brings together all
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: of this information. And I actually really like the the
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: interaction between Bones and Kirk. And and also I mean,
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: there's there's reasons for why he's doing what he's doing,
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: so he's not a stupid man. He's still intellectual in
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: that way. So it's more it's more bringing it into
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: that realm. And I think that's where the Star Trek
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: really shines, is that it's people trying to use their
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: higher functions to solve problems. You know, they're trying to
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: use diplomacy, trying to use logic, trying to use cleverness,
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: trying to be smart, use self control, use discipline to
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: solve their problems. And that's sort of like the ideal
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: of Star Trek and in the first movie you still
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: see that it's much more action orientated, but in the
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: end of the day, Kirk is able to do what
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: he does because he's smart, right, And that's that is
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: much more in line with the original Star Trek. So
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: it's not just like about the ideal people striving to
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: be better. Now, sometimes that means they don't start very good.
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it means the situation is cynical, but that the
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: ideas they're always striving to solve problems with their higher functions,
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: with diplomacy, with intellect, with intuition, you know, whereas Star
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: Star Wars maybe more about like those those those emotional
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: connections with family and also the necessity of sometimes things
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: can only be solved through war, right.
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: M Well, yeah, more of a you know, a warrior
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: evil narrative, a warrior story, yeah, the monol where.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: Star Trek is much more of an intellectual exploration story, yes,
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: and the idea of the ideal being not solving things
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: through violence, but solving things through intelligence and higher functions.
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: And so the first movie I think had that, although
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: it had a hell of a lot of action, don't
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: get me wrong. But the other thing is that at
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: the end, it was like Kirk had earned his right
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: to be in the captain's seat. The second movie, Kirk
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: is a moron, like just dumb, and not just that.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: When he had to actually explain to Christopher Pike his situation,
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: he was more competent. So when he's in a position
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: of explaining himself to someone who can say no, he's
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: a much more competent character. He gets his ducks in
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: the row. In the beginning of the second film, he's
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: not listening to his two major advisors, which are Spock
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: and Scotty in this instance, right, he does you know,
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: you know, you never listened to Bones, right, But but
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: Spock brings up a whole bunch of ethical questions about
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: going in league with this this this admiral who's incredibly
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: war mongery. And then Scotty brings up a whole bunch
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: of actual, like mechanical issues with bringing aboard weapons that
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: are completely they don't know what's in them, they don't
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: know what the payload is, and they're around extremely sensitive technology,
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: which is the Enterprise's engines. So and he's like just
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: just rolling over both of them. He's just like, shut up, Spot, Scotty,
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: shut up, and Scotty's like, well, you know what, I'm
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: gonna put my foot down because I believe that this
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: is a danger to everybody on the enterprise. So I resign.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: And it's like he never apologizes for that. He never,
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, he makes some It's like at the the
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: like the final Hour, JJ Abrams realizes own way the
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: main character has to earn his wins. So I'll just
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: make him do a random sacrifice and it'll be cool
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: because it's it's like a reversal of Spock sacrificed himself
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: in con So he'll, you know, Kirk will sacrifice. It
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: will be cool. Member Barry's I'm like, no, that was
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: shitty writing. You wrote a character that should never have
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: been When he got the captain's seat, I'm like, what
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: the fuck did this man do to earn it? Like
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: I think I wrote, I wrote out a list of
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: I apologize that I'm talking about something that maybe you
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: don't have as much knowledge of. Sorry, Brian, but I
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: wrote out We wrote out a list when we watched it.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: We wrote out a damn list of everything that Captain
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: Kirk did wrong into Darkness and he abused his staff.
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: He didn't listen to their expertise. He endangered his crew
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: multiple times and led to the deaths of fifteen people
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: at least and the first like during the Wrath of
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: con One, Scotty's nephew dies, and Kirk is thinking about
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: that the entire movie because it was a direct result
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: of one of his failures. And even though technically the
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: failure it was, it was a it was a reasonable
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: conclusion to make, so it wasn't like just something incredibly
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: stupid like totally ignoring your your your your chief officers
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: when they have a problem. And as a result of
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: ignoring Scotty's problem, the the Enterprise just breaks down in
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: the middle of a warp and jumps out of warp
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: for some reason, they end up where they're going anywhere,
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: go figure for that. And then he has like multiple
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: inappropriate conversations with his subordinates in which in one case
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: he insults and undermines the authority of his first officer
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: and also supposedly his best friend. I'm like, are you
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: freaking kidding me? What is this forced drama? And then
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: so we go from and then the relationship between Spock
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: and you hear in the original movie you her actually
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: seemed supportive, and it seemed like, well, you know, the
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: relationship probably isn't necessarily appropriate because you know, they're they're
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: serving together. At least they try to keep it out
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: of the public eye, you know, they make it private.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: There's some dignity around it. And the second one, it's
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: just basically you just you hear A drags her captain
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: into it and ugh, and then he's he promotes Chekhov
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: to a job he can't do because Scotty quit and
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: he ignores Bones's concern over that, and that ends up
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: being a problem too.
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: It's it's like, did they just do that because they
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: want They needed to create a bunch of artificial tension
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: and then they needed to fix it because you need that,
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: like you know, friend, they they they they become non
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 2: they become frenemies, or they stop talking to each other
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 2: for a while, and then they have to come back
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 2: together at the final act so they can like work
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 2: together to because the only way they could solve the
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: problem whatever it is, is for them.
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: To work together, and so they do together.
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: But the thing is that with this this everything that
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: happens in this movie could have been prevented if Kirk
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: wasn't as bad at being a captain as he is, right,
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: and in the end he gets carried by his staff.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: Every single person in that movie he proved their right
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: to sit in the captain seat except for maybe your Era,
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: more than Kirk, and they carried his ass. So when
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: he ends up back in the captain seat, it is
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: the most it's not it's not even unearned, it's anti earned.
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: And that's a real freaking problem. That's when there's no
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: track to be found here. He's not not using his
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: intelligence to solve problems. He's basically basically he solves a
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: problem by kicking it, and that earns him back the
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: captaincy after every single absolutely abusive, stupid and moronic thing
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: that he's done. And uh yeah that's where and I'm
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: not even sure why that happened, Like oh boy, anyway, Yeah.
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, I think, like I said, there's just a
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: lot of that doesn't seem to be enough understanding of
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: the source material. Not saying you can't do your own thing,
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: but I think that understanding it like tells you where
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 2: the lines are, if there are any lines, or where
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 2: you can blur things. It doesn't appear to I think
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: there was like they didn't know what they were going
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: to do, but they knew they needed to make another
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 2: Trek movie, and they knew that they needed like something
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: to happen, and they had not a really deep understanding
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: of what they were adapting. And I think there was
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 2: a lack of humility around it, which kind of comes
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: from maybe, like I don't know, like a lack of
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: like reverence for the thing that you're adapting, because there
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: were certainly like they were certainly betting on the brand,
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: being like the anchor that would sell tics, like we're
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: using this brand, and like the thing is again, you
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: don't have to do it, like for example, because I
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: just gotta bring up my own examples, the Guardians of
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 2: the Galaxy movies were hugely successful. Nobody knew what that
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: was unless you were like a diehard fan. You didn't
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: know what it was. And yet they were massive successes,
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: and it was because they were well made, and that
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 2: would be so like you could. It's obvious you could
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: do it. And I'm not saying it has to be
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: like that kind of action comedy, because I think that's
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: kind of what that is, but I mean, it's it
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: was done, and it and it also, you know, I
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 2: think that those movies are not like ADHD sort of
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 2: like constant action. I think that there's genuine, like emotional
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: moments in them. I only thought about that because, you know,
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: the woman who plays Ahura in the Star Trek movies,
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: she plays Gomorra in the Guardians movies. She's in the
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: Koreans movies too. It's the same woman except she's green. Yeah,
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: so anyway, so did you want to say anything else
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: about this?
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, sure, I've just turned into here's what I'll say.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: I'll say if you are interested in movies that have
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: like a mystery at its core, but it does actually
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 2: like have something that's worth discussing. Afterwards, somebody in the
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 2: chat mentioned it. I was going to bring it up.
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: Have you ever seen Twin Peaks, Allison.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, I think a long time ago, so I don't
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: remember a lot.
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: Of should Okay, well, I would watch that because that
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: is like the whole thing, But I didn't see because
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: I guess they they made more episodes like later on,
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: like it was like a continuation or something or reboot
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure which. I didn't see those, so I
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: don't know. I can't speak to that maybe somebody in
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: the chat has seen the later, more recent episodes of
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 2: Twin Peaks. But yeah, I have the whole thing at home.
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: It's just I don't know what's happening, but I love it,
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: so that's how I see it. It doesn't bother me at all.
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: But it's weird. It's a little Galaxy Quest. Galaxy Quest
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 2: is beautiful. Ah, I love Galaxy Quest. That's great. Anyway,
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 2: go ahead.
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: It's a surreal sort of thing.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: All of.
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 2: You when it comes to like the consciousness. But you
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 2: were saying that this was based on the what he
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: believed to be the consciousness or the zeitgeist around Star Trek.
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: I wonder how much of that is not Again, this
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: kind of this comes from this sort of toxic idea
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 2: about that show, this negative idea because it's sort of
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 2: like an old show dominated by a white man. You know.
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 2: All that there was this show called Black Mirror. Do
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: you ever see Black Mirror? I sat like some Twilight
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: Zone episodes kind of like about the technology, and there
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: was this one that was like a Star Trek thing,
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: but the I think the main character I'm trying to remember.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: I did watch it, but it was basically like a
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: feminist story about you know, men in power, and it
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: was just really cringe And I wonder how much of
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 2: that because like a lot of these things that we
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 2: hear about, you know, like like these concepts like the
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: Bechdel Test, like they're all just based on this feminist
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: theory about around pop culture tropes, and they're they're very boring,
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 2: they're not really helpful. They actually make writing worse objectively
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: when you include them. And I think this idea of
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: the you know, sort of dashing male, you know, starship captain,
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: like these people hate that so much that they will
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: turn it into a parody of itself and then pretend
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: as though that's what it always was, you know what
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 2: I'm saying. So I think that, like because somebody mentioned
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 2: black dark Black Mirror or dark Mirror, whatever it's called,
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: and I thought of that episode. It really pissed me off.
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: And I saw it, I was like, I'm not watching
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 2: this anymore.
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: That is possible that they just turned him into a
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: freaking joke and then remembered at the end of the movie,
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: Oh wait, he still has to be captain.
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, how do we how do we have our cake?
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 2: And either too.
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: Honestly, like this either that or it was just protagonists
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: centered morality, like JJ Abrams didn't walk through and say, Well,
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: what am I actually saying about James T. Kirk in
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: this movie? Am I saying that he solves problems using
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: his higher functions? Or am I saying that he solved
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: a problem by kicking a bucket? I think I'm saying
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: that I'm he solved the he re earned the enterprise
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: by kicking kicking something. I mean, he did sacrifice his
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: life in the process for five minutes, which made the
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: sacrifice really meaningless. But regardless, ah yeah, And and honestly,
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: the the foreshadowing of the fact that they were going
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: to revive him was so heavily done that you knew
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: you knew.
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 2: That, Oh yeah, so like it killed the stakes, right, Well,
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: the sacrifice didn't mean anything because he came right back
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 2: like five minutes later. So yeah, I mean, and and
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 2: I guess like Bones discovered the cure to immortality, like
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 2: the like he discovered immortality, so like where where can
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: you go from there? Like right, it's it's nuts, it's nuts.
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: It was like they just they just threw you know,
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 2: it was just super contrived.
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Okay, well let's see if we got any
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: more uh super chows. Probably not, No, all right, So
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: I mean I could probably we could probably talk more
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: about jj Abrams, even the jj Abrams Star Wars as well,
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: because I've gone through that with a fine tooth comb
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: and I've even started comparing them with the prequels, and
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: I think the prequels actually stand up better.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the prequels are. The prequels are good. They're
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: not as good as the originals, but I like them.
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 2: I like them. I will die on that hill. I
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 2: have the high ground.
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: Okay. I will say that, having watched them now three times,
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: that they grow, They sort of grow on you. I
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: think I know what what George Lucas was trying to do. Yeah,
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: and I'm not so sure it was the best approach
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: to take. It may be a bit, I honestly now
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: think that it may be a bit too avant garde
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: for a general audience.
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll say this. If it weren't for Revenge of
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: the Sith, those would have been that. The Revenge the
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: Sith was like the Hail Mary play that paid off,
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: because Phantom Menace was like if you're a child you'd
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 2: love it, And I think that's the the idea. Like
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 2: kids love that movie. They love they love jar Jar Binks.
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 2: They still do like children, you know, but like the
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 2: adults that grew up in the original trilogy hate that
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 2: stuff because I think that that's the mistake. And then
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 2: the Attack of the Clones, uh, you know, it has
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 2: a lot of like awkward acting, and I think George
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 2: Lucas not He's got like great ideas, but he's not
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 2: a great director. But Revenge of the Sith kind of
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: brought it home. It was like, Okay, this works like that.
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 2: That was the good payoff in my opinion.
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: Well, we could definitely, like we could definitely talk more
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 1: about that if you want, I mean talk.
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 2: About you can talk about jj Abrams. I don't want
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 2: this to go super long because I haven't yet.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: I'm saying that next one, next time.
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: Oh, next time, next time.
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: Sure, Like we got lots like I can go through,
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: like the the comparison the prequels to the sequels, the
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 1: comparison of con into Darkness, all three jj Abrams actually
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: were I'm doing with my writers group in the discord.
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: Looked at whatever else jj Abrams has done, like his
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: television shows. I think he's done some other movies too,
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 2: didn't he do.
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: He's also done something called Super eight that I might
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: take a look at.
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: But for eight, yes, yeah, yeah, okay, So I.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: Mean we've I've been working on this son of project
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: to really understand storytelling with the patrons. You know, if
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 1: you want to join, you can do so at feed
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: the Badger dot com slash subscribe and then get access
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: to that part of the discord, or if you just
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: want to hang out in the discord, feed the Badger
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: dot com, slash whit wait, Badger Nation dot online. And again,
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: if you enjoy this content, please tell me if you
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: like this, Like this is a little more informal, it's
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: not quite as tight to men's issues content, and it's
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: not responding to lunatics as much. I think it gets
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: a little more discussion. Like for me, this is stuff
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: that I get really charged about because it's storytelling and
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: it's understanding storytelling, and that's it's actually storytelling is one
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: of it's a very difficult art to master because and
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: one of the reasons why is because the story that
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 1: you write is not the story that people read. The
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: story that you put on the screen is not the
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: story that people receive, that they that they experience. And
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: one of the reasons why it's so it's such a
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: problem with getting these particular well it seems to be
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: mostly female directors who are at war with their audience,
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: is that they never recognize that it's not what they're
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: putting out. The story isn't in what they're putting out.
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: The story is in what the audience receives. And they're
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: so used to being the what is it the standpoint theory.
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: They're so used to having their experience be the one
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 1: that defines their you know, that they the world around
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: them that defines what everybody else needs to do. So
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: if they're offended, people need to change. If they want
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: the world to be structured in a particular way, they
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: need to you know, if a fire a firefighter doesn't
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: want to have to be able to carry a man
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: out of a burning building, then it has to be
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: his fault, you see what I'm saying, Because it's all
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: about her feelings and her sense of self and her
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: self esteem. And when you've got writers and directors who
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: think that way, they can't extend themselves to be storytellers
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 1: because the one of the most difficult things and most
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: critical things that you need to learn as a storyteller
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: is the story that you tell is not the story
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: that people hear, and the story that people hear is
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: the one that matters, and they can't acknowledge that, which
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: is why everything they do sucks. All right, So I
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: wanna I want to thank you guys for joining me again.
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: If you want to send us a message with a
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  Speaker 1: for your kind attention. And have a very lovely day, evening, afternoon,
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: second brunch, whatever you're doing wherever you're doing it.
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 2: So