Latest / K12ArtChat the Podcast / Episode 262 – Dr. Stephen C. Newbold, Jr. – Cultivating Professional Joy

Transcript

Episode 262 – Dr. Stephen C. Newbold, Jr. – Cultivating Professional Joy · K12ArtChat the Podcast

• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone, I'm Laura Vrindler, and I'm Matt Grundler, and today on K-12 Heart Chat the podcast, we'll be chatting with Dr.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: Steven Nuble about tapping into your professional joy this fall.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: This was uh quite an interesting trifecta, if you will.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um the fact that we all know we all know each other in um other ways.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I have I met Steven in I think Detroit is maybe where I met Steven the first time.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: But oh, you met him before.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: I did, yeah.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: So Steven was representing DC at the National Leadership Conference when we had that in Detroit, like in 2024, I think.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: 2024, my favorite.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: So uh but I'm super excited because I know because he's he's in my Sal group and you know I was telling him earlier that we I didn't get, you know, because we broke up into smaller groups that I I didn't get to really dig in and connect with him when we were telling our stories and stuff.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: But then the more and more I hung out with him when we did our presentations at NAEA, that was like, I was like, wow, this is yeah.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: So something big.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: Not gonna give away the secret sauce, but there is a secret sauce in South and school for art leaders, and there's uh there is a uh uh uh uh you know, we just mix it up all the time so that you do get to know each other.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: But uh Dr.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: Steven Newbold is just it's funny because his topic is professional joy.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh well that makes sense.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: She's very professional and very joyful, a great presenter and a great human and a great leader.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I'm really excited to see what you do this year, but every year from now until the end of your career, whatever that looks like, even.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Stephen.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um and for our listeners who don't know you, they should, but um, you know, if you could just kind of give them a little highlights about you and uh where you are and what you do.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: So a little bit about myself.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um Dr.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Stephen C.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Nubo Jr., I'm a native of Miami, Florida, and I like to think of myself as someone who is continuing the family business.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: My dad, his brother, and his three sisters were all educators in Miami Dade County.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: And my grandparents on my father's side, they were um they migrated from the Bahamas and they started a family in Miami, and all of their children became educators.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: So when I look back on my story, it doesn't like feel happenstance or by accident.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was something that was always written in the stones.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, even when I would say, like I never wanted to be a teacher, but if I look at my high school yearbook, you'll find my picture next to the president of the future educators of America's club.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's just this weird thing that I like to embrace now as an educator who is going into my 20th year of teaching this fall.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that this was always destined for me.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing that I would like to say that was intentional for me is the reason that I remained in the field was not from my lineage, it was from the experience, the lived experiences with my students, with me growing as a person, with me growing as an educator, which is why I made it to this 20-year milestone.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: So um I think we can stop there when it comes to who I am.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: But um I don't know.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: You have so much to offer in your story.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm I'm, you know, as we have these podcast interviews, I always think, gosh, we've got to do more than one.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that's just that just a really, we just scratch the surface with your story just now.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: So um I do want to talk a little bit about professional joy, especially in the lens of that 20 year mark, because I have uh a lot of folks that I'm talking to right now that are in the 15 to 20 year mark, and they're like, I am trying really hard to not burn out, and I'm really trying to look for the joy.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, especially as we move back into that time of year where, you know, we we try to check out a little bit over the summer, but it doesn't, I don't know anybody that actually totally checks out because you're always thinking about, you know, I saw my husband playing around with color, not cologs, uh stenotypes.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, you're testing that out so you can figure out how to do that for the so you can teach, yep, yeah, totally it wasn't about his own artistic practice.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: It was about how can I teach this to the kids?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so I don't know anybody that really checks out, but the back to school reality is starting to set in for lots of folks, and they're they're starting to have some of the scary Sundays, you know, like, oh no, am I gonna have PAC classes?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, all of those things, you know, what are the administrative tasks gonna be asked of me?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: How many meetings am I gonna have to sit into?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: And and it starts to feel um, yeah, like I don't know another way to say it, but those Sunday scaries and back to school scaries.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what are some mind shifts, uh mindset shifts you can make or habits that you suggest for teachers to really come at the school year from a place of joy because it's something that every time I talk to you in particular, Stevie, you have this joy mindset.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I I want to start off by saying school has already started to haunt my dreams weeks ago.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: And when you it's funny, um, when you say my shifts changes or my um frame shifts, I think haunt is the wrong word.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like my body is telling me that you're ready to go back in, you're ready for another 180 days to make a mark on the students, to make a mark in your community, to make a mark in your own personal growth.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's true, Laura, when you meet me, like and when you see me, I'm trying to lead with professional joy, I'm trying to lead with the best version of myself.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: But honestly and truly, yeah, like I have those anxious moments as well.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I always think about like this is a job that I signed up for 180 days to do.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it's my responsibility to make sure that I'm in a good place to be able to deliver the content, to be able to be a good coworker, to be able to be this person to the students.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because um, one of the last things I remember one of my students saying before the end of last school year was, Dr.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Newbow, you are him.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: And when she said it, she said it with so much joy.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I sat there and and I just took all the feelings in because that comment from her didn't just happen in that moment, it it was a collection of moments that I shared with her from ninth grade, tenth grade, and 11th grade.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, she shouldn't have been in my class at the time.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: She was cutting Spanish, probably.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: But I was getting we've all had those, yeah.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they're just happy it's when they're around us or in our classroom, and you're like, you need to go back to math or Spanish.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: But giving her that moment, she goes back on her own.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like like I know, I know, I just need a moment, yeah.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and that that part of my career where I'm able to exist as myself sometimes and give my students that same permission when they turn the mirror back around on me and said, I know what you've been doing, sir, and I see you.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: I I could keep going back for another 180 days.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: So all the other teachers out there, you know, like if you have these and these scary Sundays, what'd you call it, Laura?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Scary scary scary.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: Sunday scaries.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: The Sunday scaries.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: If you're having a Sunday scary, it's okay because like uh there's another saying I have like, and I probably didn't make this up, so we're gonna give credit to whoever made it up, but you can't heal in the place that hurt you, right?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: So school, work, being somebody who's a helping professional, work can't be the place that hurt you.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: So you as the educator have to find a space or a time to heal yourself.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: So when you go into that space, the space is helping you become a better person because it is your responsibility to help those kids become better people as well.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: So um lean into the scaries, but find a way to use those scaries to heal yourself because it is your responsibility.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it feels good when you do come to that moment, like, dang, I did it.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, that's a perfect segue.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I first off want to appreciate and tell you thank you for being honest that it's not that you're that you don't have those fears, it's not that you don't have those those Sunday scaries or or those concerns, you know, as as many teachers do.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: But you also started to hit on something there, that that joy mindset before as an educator, before you even walk in the door, you know, how do you we we've talked with other educators about about guarding that you know that creative flame, that that professional joy that right from the start, right from week one.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what are what are some things that maybe perhaps you do or as teachers are starting to think about or plan, um, you know, designing a a project or something to help not only fuel their own creative energy, but they're like, okay, from day one, from minute one, this is what my kids are going to be doing to find that joy.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: What are what are some ideas or suggestions that you might use?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think the biggest idea I would go with is curating a space or an environment that that speaks to that truth daily.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like it's a working document.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: It can continue to change.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like those bulletin boards that we're charged with changing and updating, you know, monthly.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: My classroom is that space, and I don't feel like it's a task to do.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: So going in right away and creating a space alongside my students to say, hey, this is our realm to feel happy.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm coming in and I have this uh art is education um um sketchbook behind me because art is education.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: You have some teachers who will frame art teachers who will frame themselves as non-classroom teachers.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, where are you teaching the kids at?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like on the playground, like well, it may be if you're the PE teacher, but you're in a classroom, so you are a classroom teacher.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: So these minor mind shifts to let you know, or to give you or empower you to say, hey, you are a professional educator in your own right, you're not just the man or the lady who colors with the kids.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like you are so powerful that the posters and paintings or the painting choices that you hang in your room are a part of an experience that would empower a student that or that would give them a voice that they didn't even know that they had or even know that they needed.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: So um I always and I always go back to my high school experience because like I am a black male educator in a profession that I represent less than 2% of the total teaching population.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I know I'm an anomaly in a sense, but there's also an experience that I have to navigate every day from my experience in K through 12 as a student.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm already starting with this idea how do I dismantle, how do I help make sure that the student experience, and I'm not I'm not perfect at it because I make mistakes at it too.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like this working document, like I'm I said, you always have another day, the next A day or the next B day to make it right.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: But you have to create an environment that gives the students and the folks around you the voice and the um and the permission to say these things to you because if you don't name it, you can't change it.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the first thing that I would advise any teacher: make sure you're creating an environment like aesthetically and socially with the students to give them that permission and that green light to say, hey, this is a safe space where we can exchange ideas, even if my ideas don't align with your ideas.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a space to create discourse and create artwork to speak to how I feel and what I think so that you or I could get my point across to you, whether you agree with it or not, I'm still able to use my voice to get these ideas out.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: So um, all teachers do that.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh when I was in high school, and I brought this point up to say um I didn't have a black male art teacher in high school.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: My high school photography teacher, Lynn Ring, my favorite teacher.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: She was from New York, she was a Jewish woman, she had this lovely curly hair, and I just I just loved everything about her.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's because she saw me before I saw her.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: So she she came to look for me.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to be that teacher that goes out to look for my students because they don't understand what they're looking at yet.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: She was somebody who was able to bring um parts of who I am as an artist and our educator out.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, other parts of me might have come from my family lineage, might have come from my own lived experiences, but I'm bringing up this point to say you don't have to look like your students to create an environment that they can feel like their voices matter.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: You're the educator, you're the expert in the room.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: So whatever you need to do to become more culturally responsive, to become um more um socially, emotionally tuned to the students that you're servicing on a day-to-day basis, you need to go do that.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's hard to for me, somebody who has gotten a uh PhD in art education to say this and go and throw out this charge without saying, hey, isn't it the school system's responsibility to give this professional development to me?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, sure it's their responsibility to provide it, but if they don't, you see a gap in in that that um knowledge that you need.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: You're the expert.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: You go get that, you go name it so that you can get it.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of times um I'm speaking from privilege because I have had longevity in my career, so I'm able to say these things 20 years out that I might have not had the language at year one to say back in school year 2007, 2008.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: But trust and believe me, at that point I was collecting anecdotal uh information.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I'm growing.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't leave those experiences behind, I use them to become better.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if more people could tap into that, school will feel more joyful because you're not like a bystander, you're an active participant.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I am going off, I am talking.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: No, go, man, go.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I love the fact that you brought that up because I'm thinking, you know, I'm in year 24.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, it keeps changing every time we talk about it, but I there's a level of confidence that you do gain from your years of teaching.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when I have student teachers or I have pre-service teachers that are coming in to observe, you know, they're they will come to me with different questions or things, or even or even my you know, my additional teachers in my department, I'm like, hey, you know, you need to bring this up.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: And they're very nervous or very hesitant because they're like, well, I don't, I can I, can I say that?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Can I, you know, they're afraid of what, because they don't have enough confidence in their own abilities yet.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, as I've, like I said, as I've earned kind of earned that confidence to be able to say, hey, you know what, to my administration, this isn't right, or hey, is there a way to correct this?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, yeah, it's gonna be a tough conversation, but still you start the things you start to gain, things you start to will and do make it more joyful, especially in the long run.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think too, the other point that I that I took away from Steven just now is that with experience, hopefully comes some reflectiveness.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I think sometimes you don't know what you don't know, especially as a as a uh first or second year teacher, you're so much you just don't know.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, and it's not your fault, right?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're learning every and that's the thing about being an educator is that there is not one day being in a schoolroom or even like in my job, which is teaching educators now, there's not a day that I don't learn something.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I hope that that there's some reflectiveness of that, you know.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm still learning, that that's a place where I can reflect and be like, well, where do I need to learn more?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: What am I missing?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: What gaps do I have?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: How can I fill those gaps to better serve the teachers and the students that I'm serving, you know, and I think that that's key right there is that reflection piece about how can I fill the gaps that I need so I can be better every day and better for them.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Steven, one of the things I know that you're very passionate about is leadership, but I'm curious how that translates to your everyday life with your students because I I feel like we've had some conversations about leadership opportunities for your students that you provide that offer them voice as well.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: Can can you speak to that a little bit?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, fortunately for me, I was able to become the inaugural art teacher at a school.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: So everything was fresh and new.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't have um anybody um hanging over my head saying this is how the last person did it.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Historical data from my career, I experienced that part.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: So not having to do that, I'm now able to focus on things like student leadership and artifact and the national art um education association in terms of the National Arts Honor Society, are two ways that I've allowed my students to really take the lead with their arts education and who they want to be as founding students or the founding graduation, the founding graduating class of John R.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thompson High School, which is in Washington, D.C.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: So um the first thing I want to point out is we didn't have a NHS um National Arts on the Society chapter.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: We started that back in 2024, 2025 school year.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: And when I saw the opportunities available for the students, like um publishing their artwork in the newsletter andor becoming a part of the student advisory committee, I made sure to tell my students, hey, apply for it.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: What's the worst that can happen?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: You get picked, and now you have to work.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I had several students apply for these roles.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: And because we were just starting the chapter, we didn't have that one year of experience that the application called for.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: But that's okay.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Building that historical data, like, oh yeah, two years in a row we apply for, but the third year, we got it, right?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: We got this feedback from the organization that says, hey, you need more time to develop, you need to do more.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: So guess what?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: You take that information back to the student body and you put the onus back on them to say, if you want this thing, you have to put the work in for it.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: And outside of arts education, I'm the advisor of the student government association.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I I started it, I helped the kids write the bylaws.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end of last school year, we had our student election to make sure that we had the student leaders in place when the school year starts.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something that we were able to use historical data from because the first year we couldn't do that because we were started from scratch.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: We had to have the election, but now we have one, two, three.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Three years of elections, actually four now, because we did the one for this year at the end.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: We did two last year.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: So just being that person that was a student in high school that was a student leader, I was able to tap into those experiences to come and bring them to my experience, my students, and allow them to experience it, even if I hadn't done that as a teacher yet.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Got it.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: I had it as a student.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's time for me to translate what I experienced as a student into my role as a teacher to empower those students in the same way.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because I got it from somebody too.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: It didn't just come intrinsically from me.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've I've always been a talker and always been um partly this person that you're listening to right now and that you see in front of you, but just on a different level.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: I had so many people pour into me over these years.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Steven, you need to listen.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you're the leader, folks want you to listen and hear them out.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: So don't listen just to respond.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Write down what they're saying.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Eric Roundtree taught me that when I was in the organization in college called Progressive Black Men.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Listen to them, write it down.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do not interrupt those folks.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Once they said what they said, then you can look, do a needs assessment, and then reply from there.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Learning that at 2021 was a game changer.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Was something for me that I was able to be an intentional educator in that regard.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: So when administrators came in and they offered me critiques, I was writing it down.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: I was writing these things down.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's my turn to speak.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you want me to change this?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, this is my first year.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: What type of resources am I going to get from you to get to this?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Boom.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: I learned that in year one.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was able to apply that in year one as a teacher because of something that I learned as a student leader in college.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, Laura, that's a very great question to ask me about who I am and how I'm able to be that intentional when it comes to providing leadership opportunities for my students because they're high school kids.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: So they got four years of high school, another four years of college, and then now they're in a position where they can be a Mr.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: or miss somebody in the classroom.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: And they'll have those moments that were very, very intentionally planted, but not in an aggressive way at all.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: But I think too, to that point, you know, um you and I have some some similarities because that was one of my favorite things was being in charge of student counsel at the high school I taught at.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, National Art and Honor Society and those things.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: And what I found is that it contributed to my joy because the kids were more tapped in when they had a voice in leadership.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think they get more excited about, you know, what someone's listening to me, and I can do these things for my community.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: I still remember us doing, we did every year a fall carnival, and the kids planned everything from beginning to end, and they included so many different art activities.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it was, it brought me so much joy to see them take ownership of something.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: And when you can do that in a classroom setting, even you know, just in your curriculum to give them that, you know, that's one of the reasons I do really like choice in in art education curriculum, because then there's that buy-in and kids get excited about it because it's theirs, it's not yours, it's theirs.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it just brings, I I just remember those are some of my most joyful moments in teaching is seeing them lead things.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: And you know they got it when they start quoting you.
• 26:08
  unknown: Yeah.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: And they want to.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, there's I'm sure numerous stories that uh many of us could share about those things.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so Steven, I'm just curious, like how you know, we're talking about we're talking about leaning into your own or tapping into your own joy.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a way in which, and then you know, for some of our listeners, they might be like, yeah, duh.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: But and um and some are like, well, I didn't know we could even that was even doable.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: But is there a way for teachers to be able to kind of tap into their own creative energy or what they're passionate about when they are when it comes to like curriculum or when it comes to you know designing the room?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we started to kind of talk about it a little bit.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that way it doesn't just feel like I'm meeting, I'm just meeting the standards, I'm checking the boxes for the standards, and and that's that's it.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's all I can do, even though that's not no, yes.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: No, I I I just no, this question has me thinking a lot right now because uh not to get political, but in Texas, we're seeing a lot of districts being taken over by the state, and you're seeing uh teachers posting like emails they're getting from their admin about like their their desks have to be in a certain way and they're they they have to have certain things on the wall and stuff like that.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think this is a really, really important question because we have the gamut of folks that you know the administration's like, you go do you, it's gonna be awesome, have a great do whatever you need to do in your classroom, paint the walls, do whatever, make it your own environment.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: But then you have the other end of the spectrum where they're like, okay, the tables have to be laid out this way, and you have to have these standards on the wall and those kinds of things.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do we make sure that regardless of the situation you're in, you can find a way to going back to your words, curate the environment, really, you know, for that joy for yourself and for your students?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the first thing I want to say is you get to be happy.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: You you get to be happy at work, right?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: You don't you don't need anybody's permission to be happy.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: And before I go into answering the question to the best of my ability, Laura and Matt, um, I recall walking into a school where some of those experiences where you had to have the standards this way or the instructional soup is coming into the building.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I have someone say, Well, why are you so happy?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: You walk around like you own the place.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I I had to sit back and think about like what does that mean?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm just walking through the hallway smiling because I just hung up some art in the hallway, and it's almost like resentment from somebody that because I'm the creative um person in the building, that I have more opportunities to be joyful, but I still have the same evaluation system that everybody else has to be judged off of.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: So those school districts that might be more strict than others.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I fortunately have been consistently rated effective in my school district in the 11 years that I've been there.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: But out of that 11, six of those times have been highly effective ratings.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm proud of that, but I'm intentional about using the parameters that are set in place.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, you got to do this thing, this thing, this thing, this thing, and this thing.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: You have to cover those things because that's what your job requires.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: But what are those ancillary experiences that you're gonna bring to the table to make sure that you feel joyful and your students feel joyful?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what each individual person needs to plan out because self-care and professional or creative joy isn't a one um shop stop, it's one stop shop for everybody.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: It needs to be unique to what you need as a person and as a professional.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Some people might say, Hey, I've been teaching, and this was my my case recently.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: I've been teaching for X amount of years.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: In my mind, I think I'm now supposed to go become an administrator.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: So become an administrator, what does it do?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: It automatically takes you out the classroom.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: It takes you from in front of the student as their primary instructor.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: So now you're managing um parent-facing issues, teaching facing issues, and student facing issues that come down from the district.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Am I going to still have this same optimism and joy in this role?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I still need a chance to experience it to see how I could cover all the bases that my job requires and still find a way to bring myself or my optimism into the experience because that's what I need as a person to be able to operate in the space.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't ever want to come to a space where I feel like I'm in constant battle.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: If I feel that way, it's time for me to move to another school or um take a couple days off because that's in my contract, too, where you can take a sick leave if you're not feeling well.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: Your mental health is a part uh of that as well.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: So if I had to to to just pin a couple points on how the educational landscape could be political, it requires you to um kind of be um proficient or at least um what's the word that I'm looking for?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um compliant, compliant with district mandates.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Those things are optional.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Do those things, but also find a way to still bring your joy, your happiness into it.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, what that looks like is me publishing research and then bringing the published research in to the students and just leaving it in the classroom and waiting to see how long it takes for a person to say, Dr.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: Nubo, what's that?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: You did that, you on the cover of that?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: How'd you do that?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: How can I do that?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: Giving them those opportunities and moments, and it it really sounds like I'm speaking from a place of privilege because I'm somebody who has this PhD from this major research institution, Florida State University.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not plugging, I'm just saying, right?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: I got a bachelor's in um art history, I got a master's in um art education and a PhD from in art education from this institution.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: But from the time of the bachelor's, I've been very different people.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: I've had to be very different people throughout this whole experience, and I had to be intentional about it, but I also had to live a little bit to get that data to determine how I need to move forward.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: So if I leave you with anything, you need to do a needs assessment for yourself, your classroom, and your school community and decide what you're able to do and figure out what your limits are.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: If it's something that's too much for you, maybe, and I'm not telling people to lead a teaching profession, right?
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not telling people to do that, but we have a responsibility as educators, right?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: To um and compliant is the wrong word because it's the right word, but I don't want to feel like I don't want people to feel like if they believe in something and the system is broken or the system isn't aligned um to what they personally think, or turn it back around and bring the research.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: Turn it back around and use your your union contract if you have one as a source to say, hey, we can at least start from here because I know that I get an uninterrupted lunch.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: So me not doing art club during my lunchtime because I want to eat.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's not a gift that you're giving me.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: That everybody else gets to eat.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't I?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: So take those lunches, leave at 3:45 when you're supposed to do the work of planning for your lessons during your planning period.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: Once you get home, go to the gym, cook dinner, do whatever you need to do.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: But those instances that I'm explaining, it took some years for me to understand how to manage and find a voice to say, hey, you do get to smile, you do get to take a break, you do get to sit down and deliver that lesson.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: If you know your feet are hurting, but you're doing it in a way that when the administrator comes in, they can't question your work ethic.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: They see every student working, they see them doing the turn and talks, and not in a way where it's performative, they're doing it because that's the classroom culture that you built.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: So when Thanksgiving comes around and the kids are writing the thankful notes in English class, they're gonna tape them to your door and it they'll say, Um, Dr.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Newball always lets us be ourselves.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: What does that mean?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's not going to be about the lesson or the objective that's written on the board, but you know, in this space, you're required to be productive and make meaning out of your lived experience.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: So when I come over and you guys are, you know, singing in art class, and I'm like, what are you singing about?
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: And they know that to co switch and say, Oh, this is for my visual art journal, and I'm doing this and I'm testing out these lyrics because I wait, are you trying to scam me?
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like it's not a scam.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, they're there, or I'm giving them space to create this language to say, hey, I can still be myself and still exist where their parameters that I have to perform, but I can still do it my way.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: So when it comes to, and I don't know, nobody talking about AI, but when it when it when it comes to them wanting to use chat GPT to craft a response to something, they don't want to do that.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: They want you to know who they are, and they want you to know from their voice because they know that you value their voice.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I they're not just doing it to be compliant, they're doing it because it's a part of this environment.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know, kind of on the same vein of what you're just talking about, thinking about the intentionality of how you set the year in motion and create that space.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we've talked about it throughout, but creating the environment, curating the environment, you know, it sounds to me like you really intentionally set at the beginning of the year a shared space of creative joy.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have any tips for teachers on things that you intentionally do at the beginning of the year to set that space up?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, rules, um, first of all, are important.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: I can't just um stroll into work, you know, at 9.15 every day when our call time is at eight.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: So there um are things that are non-negotiable, but um uh punishment or being punitive when a person does these, that's not the goal.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's to get you to understand, hey, like so I have these things, I call them grandma rules.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um I I came up with these grandma rules because I feel like they're things that your grandmother would tell you to do.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Grandma rule number one is please refrain from using profane language.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: Grandma rule number two, keep your hands to yourself.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Three, keep your feet on the ground, and four, keep your spit in your mouth.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Why do I have to tell students this?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: There's a number of reasons why I have to tell them.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: But those rules are like my non-negotiables, but when they are um not abiding by them, I'll say grandma rules.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: Someone go look, like, did I just gossip?
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll just leave it at that.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you hear them saying it to each other, grandma rules, it's like, like I did it.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like I created a space to check behavior that is not appropriate for this space, but me checking it is not to punish them, it's just to say this is not the space for that.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: So please stop.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: But keeping your hands to yourself also means you can't throw stuff and all these other things.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to have these little subcategories to help them understand, like, that's a part of keeping your hands to yourself, you know.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so so those are the type of things that like I've done over the years where rules don't seem like they're being put in place to be compliant, but it's to create a safe space for everybody so that we can all come in here and feel like, hey, I'm able to get my work done.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: I had students like, oh, they're over there rapping.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's not taking, is it taken away from your experience?
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this room's gonna be loud.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you're humming, they didn't say nothing about you.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: You get to exist as yourself, so they get to exist as themselves and being able to just and it again, it takes practice because you they might go into another space and it's totally different.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, hall passes.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: No, you don't have to ask me to go to the restroom.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: There's a procedure for the restroom, it's a log on the wall.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: Hall passes are just sitting up on on in the bag.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: If somebody's name is already on the log, guess what?
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta wait till they come back.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: If that thing is empty, go get your pass and go about your business.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: I've already signed them all.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: You'll see them.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: Can I go to the restroom?
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll just stop.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: The pass is over there.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is the kids telling each other.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he just let us go to the bathroom.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: You need to go to the restroom.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's not something that you need to feel like in their high schoolers, too.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, don't maybe not do this with elementary.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, but it works for my space, and it works for my space, and the kids are able to verbalize how those intentional actions that I put in place at the beginning, and we continue to practice them with throughout the year and them being held accountable, those things make them feel like this is their room too, this is their space too.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: So you don't have to do it like me, but whatever it is, you just need to make sure the 25 to 32 students that are sitting in your room that they all feel like, hey, I'm able to say this, but it needs to be in a way where the person who I'm saying it to one hears me and then has an opportunity to respond.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, and that comes from Eric saying, Steven, you need to listen.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think I need to send him the podcast.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: He probably one of the things we love is like having people call out those mentors.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: The shout outs to the mentors is really important.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um Steven, I think we could go on and on, but we've hit like the the that time when uh Matt's about to ask you the hardest question.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna turn it over to him.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, a routine that we have on the podcast is as we start to wrap up, um, we give you the hardest question.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: And basically, this question is what's one thing you would like to leave our listeners with, whether it's something you've talked about throughout the podcast or haven't mentioned yet, or but just some little words, wisdom, advice, um, whatever it is you want to leave our listeners with.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, assuming that all of your listeners are art teachers, you know, it's more people listening, but this is for the art educators.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: Find a way to document your teacher's story from year to year, from 180 days to the next 180 days.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because you say all we got is 180, but if you're gonna do a career 30 years plus, you have multiple chances to perfect, to get it right.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: Not even perfect, because that's the wrong word.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you get to year 15 and experience a new challenge that you didn't even expect, but you know that you progressed through your own K 20.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Of education, you know that you progressed through that first through 14 years.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can get through that, you can get through this challenge too, right?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: Just uh make sure that you are being the best version of yourself.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: You're going in knowing that you are a helping professional, right?
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: That the role requires this.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you think somebody else, you know, failed the students.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: If they're in your face and you see that they can't use scissors, the lesson that day is for them to pick up scissors.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: You need to put this finger and this finger in here, then you need to open and close, right?
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: So now you know moving forward that that kid knows how to cut and you're the person that taught them.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: You're not spending this time saying what somebody else should have done for them because you have now have the power to do that very thing, right?
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: So make sure when you have moments like that to be the change that you are critiquing somebody else for, you make sure you do it.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: You you stop right there and you do it.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm gonna lead the people with.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: You do it.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_02: I wish people could see my face.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh my gosh, yes.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's like such great advice.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: I I really just even on on the the note of joy, like, don't get stuck in the who shoulda woulda complaining.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, just get do it, just do it.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, those are the kids that are in front of you.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: Take care of them, give them what they need.
• 45:36
  unknown: Thank you.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is coming from this is coming from a person who's quoting Langston Hughes that my life ain't been no crystal stair.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not around here doing this, you know, this um positivity trip where you just have to always smile.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's not what I'm saying.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm saying that you can still experience trial and challenge and still come out on the other end with the objective to make sure that as a helping professional, you be the best version of yourself to the students that come in front of you every day.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's that's all I'm saying.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I feel good to say it.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: I feel joyful when so thank you.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you'll come back sometime.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, we just really appreciate you and who you are.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, thank you, Matt and Laura.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: I I appreciate y'all too.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I gave you a card, Laura, the other day at NFC.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: I called you.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: What what did I call you?
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: You Sal Mama, and I I I it made me cry because I'm like, that's what I I mean, and I used to get called art mom from my kids.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, but like I just want to create space that everybody can grow.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's the whole thing.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like my job as a leader is to grow other leaders, and so that just made me that made me happy because if I'm a mama, I must have provided some safe space for that.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: You do.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Steven.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that was really nice.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: I enjoyed that.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_02: I did too.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I enjoyed that.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: I I know it sounds bad, but so I enjoyed it from multiple levels.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was a real perspective on like you get to choose, it's not easy.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like, like there was this honesty, and like you're making a conscious choice about these things, like life and school and teaching and the things that you're gonna encounter are not necessarily always joyful, but if you choose how you encounter them and you go in with a certain mindset, and you think about what is it I'm gonna take away from this school year.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think, you know, and then giving those those students the voice and making sure that they are able to connect and collaborate.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I was thinking about too, like make the kids the curators, have them do your bulletin boards, depending on how old your students are.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, you're not gonna have kindergarteners do that, but you know, but uh you know, those are there's so many opportunities to and then like also I love that you at the end that you was also talking about like these are the students that you that are in front of you, take them from where they are, don't don't get mired down and like the they're not able to, they're they're not able to do this, they're not able to do that.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_02: That used to annoy me so other teachers say that see what they are capable of and go.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: Take them from there and give them the give them the skills they need.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I really liked what Steven said.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, Don't be don't be fake about your joy.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: He's not saying walking around blindly smiling for no reason, right?
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, to this is what you get to do.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: You get to change how they're thinking and how they view the world around them.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: You get to give them opportunities to experience new things.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's that's yeah.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that too.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think it was Bryce that talked a little bit about that a couple weeks ago.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_02: Is like we get to do this.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_02: So get in there and uh and uh have a great, you know.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, you know what else we get to do?
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, what do we get to do?
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: We get to tell people um like where they can find some resources.
• 49:22
  unknown: Yeah.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: So for every podcast, including this one, you can go to davisart.com slash free resources and find free resources from our great friends at Davis uh publications, uh, school arts and all the different things.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: But for every podcast, there's a set of resources that that sit side by side.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so go to free resources under davisart.com and check out those free resources for each podcast.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: If you're listening to the podcast, you can listen to it on davisart.com, or you can go to anywhere you listen to podcasts and check it out there.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Matt, if somebody wants to reach out to us, where would they do that?
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they get to send us an email uh if they want to send us an email um through the creativity at gmail.com, or you can reach out to us on uh Instagram at creativity.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: We would love to hear ideas, thoughts, topics, um, artists, maybe you know, things you want to hear from us.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I think I think that's about it.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's about it.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um going back to where you listen to your podcast, make sure you subscribe, rate, review.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_02: That helps us keep the podcast going, and we appreciate you so much.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_02: Make sure to have a creative week ahead and thank you for listening.