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A Breath FOR Life And A Breath OF Fresh Air – With Jane Dean · UK Column Radio

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another UK column interview. And for
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: those of you that don't know me, my name is
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Debbie Evans and I'm a retired old school NHS SRN.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: I was a government advisor at the Department of Health
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: for five years and well today I'm going to be
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: talking to you exactly about that, about nursing and about
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: my passion because today I'm hoping that all of you
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: watching it's been so doom and gloom, hasn't it, And
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: it's cold outside, and I'd like you to snuggle up
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: with a warm drink and enjoy today's interview because it's
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: going to give you hope. It's going to give you
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: something to think about, and any new nurses out there,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: newly trained, newly qualified, maybe you'll be interested in today's
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: interview too, because hopefully we can go a long way
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: to support you. So today a breath of fresh air
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: and a breath of hope. And you'll know why I've
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: said that in a minute, because a few years ago
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: I received an email from an amazing lady called Jane Dean,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: who I call her senior Matron because she trained a
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: little bit before me. She trained in the sixties and
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: she said, would I like a copy of her book,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Old Old School Nurse? And I suggest I would love
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: a copy of her book, and she sent me her
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: book and here it is, to Heal the Sick, and
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: to be honest with you, it's been my bible for
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: the last couple of years. And it's also been the
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: most amazing walk down a very happy memory lane when
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: the NHS was a lot healthier than it is now.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: And Jane and I, for the record, have worked together,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: but that's another story. So we know that we're both
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: singing from the same hymn sheet. And today's interview is
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: going to be in two halves because Jane is not
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: just an old school NHS trained SRN, State Registered nurse
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: and State certified midwife. She's also an atropath and she's
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: pretty remarkable and you're going to find out why. But
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: for now, Jane, Jane Dean, thank you so much for
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: sending me your book. It was lovely to meet you.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I'm honored to have you here on UK column. Welcome
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: and please give us a little introduction as to who
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: you are. Well.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Hello, Debbie. I am so delighted actually that you invited
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: me to join you with this interview. I think I
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: said to you quite recently. The only reason I went
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: I took the journey down to Bristol for the UK
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: column that weekend was primarily to meet with you and
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: to speak with you. And it turned out to be
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: quite an interesting event, did it not so? I yes,
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: I'm just a few years older than you, Debbie, not
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: that many. And so I did train in the sixties
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: and I loved every minute of my SRN training. I
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: went on to do midwa three training and I worked abroad.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: I worked in Northern Canada, I worked in Germany, and
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: I kept coming back home. I was probably for ten years.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: I was the community nurse come midwife in Kessick in Cumbria.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Delivering babies at home in those days was an absolute joy.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Loved it. I still have my old Pinard's speculum for
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: listening to babies, which I keep on my desk to
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: remind me of what life was like before all the
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: electronic devices came in. I also I did a health
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: research degree at Lancaster University and I retrained probably twenty
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: five years ago now as an anthropath and I had
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: my own practice.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Dane. You're remarkable and you know talking to you walking
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: down memory lane, remembering what the NHS used to be, like,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: remembering what nurses used to be, like, we're going to
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: come onto that. And like I said right at the
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: beginning of this interview, this is going to be an
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: interview in two halves because on top of talking about
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: nursing in your book, you are a very remarkable woman.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, I have also founded a charity a long
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: time ago, and it was basically a one woman charity
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: and it was specializing in autism spectrum and basically it
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: was hard work. But I had to get myself in
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: the car and maybe a bag or two and go
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: and see people and talk to people. You, however, also
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: founded a charity, but you went one step further because
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: you decided that you wanted to open a hyperbaric oxygen
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: therapy you. I don't know if anybody knows what a
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: hyperbaric oxygen chamber looks like. We're going to show you
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: a picture right now, but it's massive, it's huge. And
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: not only did you have to try, and mean, I
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: don't know, you don't walk down the street and find
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: a hyperbaric oxygen chamber is lying around to you. But
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: then you need somewhere to put it, and I mean,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: it's just an extraordinary, extraordinary journey. And while we were
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: at the conference, you gave me this a breath of
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: life hyperbaric oxygen units. This is all your own work.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: This is a charity, and you're going to talk to
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: us about how your journey started, who it started with,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: and where you are today. Jane, take us through it.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: It's extraordinary.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Well, I shall try and keep it as brief as possible, Debbie.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: And from the outset, it was never my intention to
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: start a charity, And had I known the epic journey
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: was going to take me on, I might have had
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: second thoughts, if I'm honest, but probably it's about twenty, well,
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: nearly thirty years ago. I was running a free naturopathic
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: children's clinic with an osteopathic colleague and we thought, you know,
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: we'd just be seeing children with coughs and wheezes and
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: asthma's exemas, constipation and this kind of thing. But we
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: were seeing so many children that were on the autistic spectrum,
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: children with cerebral palsy. So as this was happening and
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: I was doing my masters and I was looking at
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: the effect of dairy, particularly cow's milk on children, and
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: how that was affecting a lot of their if you like,
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: internal problems. Research brought me into contact with our local
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: pediatric consultant, and she and I. She was called Monica
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: pat Check. She and I became quite good friends. She
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: then phoned one day to ask if we could do
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: anything to help a little boy who was aged three,
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: who had been well. He was actually medical neglect. He
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: had been left without oxygen in our local hospital for
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: eight minutes and was severely severely brain damaged. And when
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: I first met Andrew, who's now a photograph you just showed,
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: he was still He was probably about twelve months after
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: the insult, and he was still very, very very distressed.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: Were the parents, and as was I. So that's what
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: started the journey. I had to find something to help
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: this little boy. And it's only by chance that I
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: heard about hyperbaric oxygen, because all through my nursing career,
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: I had never really well, I've never known anything about
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: hyperbaric oxygen. Don't know about you, Debbie, but that's what
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: started the journey, and I ended up going up to
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: the Nine Wells Hospital in Dundee to meet the only
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: professor of hyperbaric medicine in the country and this is
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: his seminal book, Oxygen and the Brain. So Philip actually,
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: you know, he baptis one hundred percent. He had been
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: trying all of his career within the NHS and obviously
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: in the diving industry. It's very famous in the diving
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: industry to get a hyperbaric oxygen chamber into every hospital
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: in the country. And of course it never happened, and
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: we could talk about why it didn't happen, but of
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: course you've got to remember oxygen really is free. We're
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: breathing oxygen now all the time, so it's not barked
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: back at all with pharmaceutical money. I just knew I
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: had to get Andrew into after speaking with Professor James,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: after seeing a hyperbaric oxygen chamber working at the nine
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Welsh Hospital, I thought, this is what we have got
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: to do. So philiput James enter for us to rent
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: a chamber to start with. So it started off with
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: a rented chamber, but of course first we had to
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: find a building and these things were you know, five
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: or six terms and in my native Tea, when I
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: first heard about hyperbaric chambers. I thought one could perhaps
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: fit on top of a car, you know, you could
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: go and buy one. That was how naive I was
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: so talk about a huge learning curve. But once I
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: grasped it, and once you start to see the results,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: you can't believe why there is not a hyperbaric chamber
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: in every hospital in the country. So that's basically how
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: it started.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's how it started, Jane. But it didn't stop there,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: did it, Because you know, you rent it, then you've
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: got to find somewhere to put it. These things. I mean,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: you know, many people that are listening now will only
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: have associated a hyperbaric oxygen chamber with divers They don't
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: they don't associate it with health. And you had to
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: go one on from there. And but I mean, before
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: we come to the floods, because there were the floods,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: there was the building. There was owning the building, there
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: was buying the building, there was refurbishing the building. I mean,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: let's we'll come to that in a minute. But before
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: I do, I just want to read just off your
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: one of your little leaflets that you gave me at
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: the conference, A Breath for Life. I just want to
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: read this, which says that you were established over twenty
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: seven years ago and that you've helped thousands of people,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: and that you accept children and adults and have facilities
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: for people with the dis abilities, and that hyperbaric oxygen
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: therapy helps people with many illnesses, injuries, and conditions. Breathing
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: oxygen under pressure helps tissues, heal, repairs injuries, and fights diseases.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: It is benign and non invasive. The treatment involves sitting
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: in a chair and breathing oxygen from a mask in
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: the chamber for around one and a half hours. So
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: that is what hyperbaric oxygen therapy is. So you've got
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: the chamber, you've rented the chamber, you're finding somewhere to
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: put it. But then you get more hurdles. Jane tell
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: us about the hurdles, because honestly, your journey is remarkable,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: it's extraordinary. Carry on.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: When you embark upon something like this, really you do
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: not know what is in store. Well, the chamber that
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: we rented, of course, was an ex diving chamber, so
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: it was cylindrical and so if you can imagine that,
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: so we had to put sort of wooden flats in
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: and things to get seating. So we absolutely knew that
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: we wanted our own purpose built chamber, and that was
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: really when the charity started. Before that, we'd just been
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: fumbling along. I mean, obviously it was not just me,
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: you know, there was always been four of us, you
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: know for trustees that have come and gone, but myself
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: and Zoe Greenwood, if she's watching, she was the very
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: start as well. We started the charity obviously to raise
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: the money for the chamber, and the chamber waits six tons,
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: so we then had to find somewhere to put this chamber.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: So we moved actually onto an industrial site to start with,
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: which was absolutely well, it was awful. It was a
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: very bleak few years because there was no windows in
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: this industrial unit. And what has bugged at me constantly
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: was the fact that we've never had proper toilet facilities,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: not you know, disabled facilities. And when you're trying to
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: raise money for something hyperbaric oxygen therapy that very few
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: people know anything about anyway, so to start by educating
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: them and then to try and raise somebody to say
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: we've not got a disabled toilet. It was so bad
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: that we used to have to tell, you know, parents
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: coming with children with severe disabilities to stop at the
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: local post house hotel to use their toilet facilities before
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: they got to us. So it's been a real grassroots fight,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: I can tell you. But I'm trying to keep it
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: short because I don't want to waste time just talking
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: about the background. I would rather talk about the oxygen
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: as therapy. But we finally did manage to buy our
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: own piece of land and as soon as we had
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: got the land, it flooded. We had a little unit
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: that we built which was not really big enough, still
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: no toilet facilities. We had a partter cabin outside for
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: toilet facilities and it was storm Desmond forgotten what Yeah,
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: that was twenty sixteen, I think, and we'll just stranded
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: like well, it was just awful and trying. You'll understand
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: this because you've been flooded. I don't know how many
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: times that be. But our chamber operators were working in Wellington's.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: We were carrying people across the floodwater into the chamber.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: It was we I think, beyond the lost two days
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: with the floods, we just kept up, kept ongoing because
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: once patients have started on a course of hyperbaric oxygen,
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: they don't want to miss you know. They they will
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: actually walk through floodwater to get there to get their
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: oxygen therapy. Oxygen therapy. So it has been quite a journey.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: It's all wonderful now I might Dad. We have got
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: the most beautiful facility that only opened at the end
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: really at the end of last year. We had our
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: official opening in May of this year and we've got
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: the most fantastic disabled toilet facilities for the first time ever.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: As I said to you date when we met, it's
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: very frustrating when you see how much money is wasted
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: within the National Health Service, and yet we are now
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: treating up to one hundred and twenty people a week
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: and we've had to raise every penny ourselves.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: You literally coffee mornings, raffles, fades, footballs. I mean, you've
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: got the local community involved. It has literally been grassroots.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: And we're going to show you more pictures of it,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: but just for people there you can see that beautiful,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: beautiful unit. And I just because I know you want
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: to come on and talk about the oxygen therapy. So
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: on the back of your little leaflet that you gave me,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: you say, among the conditions it's been used to treat
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: are diabetic ulcers, long COVID, neurological chronic fatigue, syndrome, wound healing,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: age related neurodegenerative conditions, stroke, traumatic brain injuries, sports injuries,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: musculo skeletal injuries. That's a fair old list. Jane tell us,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: tell us of the benefits of this. And also I
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: have to say, because people are going to be screaming
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: at the screen by now saying where is she? This
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: is in Lancashire, right, So for all of you of
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: you that are saying where is it? Where is it?
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: All of the details how to get in contact with
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Jane will be in the article that's beneath this interview,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: so please go check it out. But talk to us
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: about the oxygen therapy itself. Talk talk to us about
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: what you've seen, the miracles that you've seen.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Let me say, oxygen is not a cure as such,
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: but oxygen relieve so many symptoms. The one thing that
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: I put my hand on my heart and say is
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: that it's certainly cures legousers, so whether those are diabetic
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: ulcers or ischemic legalsas because one of the problems with
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: legosers is that they be come very very quickly infected
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: and you get so many different types of bugs growing
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: in these ulcers because the circulation is so poor. So
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: what the oxygen does is actually kill off the infection,
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: but it also oxygen oxygenates the tissues in the legs
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: and healing takes place. It's magical. I've got slides actually
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: of you know, different stages of with leg ulcers. So
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: what actually happens is you can talk talk if you
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: like that. The dosage is twofold, so the dose of
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: oxygen is the compression plus then breathing one hundred percent oxygen. Now,
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: breathing oxygen in a compressed environment allows the whole of
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: the circulation to become oxygenated, so it's not just the
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: red blood cell, which as you know, normally carries the
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: oxygen around. You get the cerebospinal fluid is oxygen ecated,
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: all fluids in the body, so the oxygen can reach
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: the tissues that have been harmed and without oxygen, healing
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: cannot take place. So to give an extra boost like that,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: but the oxygen actually does more than that because it
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: increases the microcirculation. So you get ups of tiny little
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: new vein growth which can get into places that if
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: we're talking about the brain in particular, it stimulates the
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: the bone marrow to produce more stem cells, so you
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: need stem cells again for healing. And if we're looking
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: at brain injuries, there are about one hundred trillion different
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: little synapses that happen in the brain. So if with
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: the oxygen we can stimulate some of those little sinappses,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: then miracles, yes, do occur. It's just I wish I'd
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: known about it actually years and years ago, because it's
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: not a new therapy. It's become more, if you like,
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: more known since COVID because for the first time ever,
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: hyperbaric oxygen therapy is now included on the protocol for
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: long COVID, which is fantastic because NICE, you know, the
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: National Institute for Clinical Excellence, really only approves of it
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: for decompression sickness, you know, carbon monoxide poisoning, burns. It's
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: very so you've got to be very very careful how
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: you describe what you're using it for. And I think
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: this is why we do not get NHS referrals. We
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: do get the action that occasionally we used to get
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: them more, but the NICE change their guidelines, so really
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: it's patients that are doing their own research and they
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: are voting with their feet, which is of course amazing.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: I think I would just at this stage like to
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: mention cancer because you probably no, Debbie. There's a nineteen
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: thirty nine Cancer Act that stipulates the only qualified medical
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: practitioners and pharmacists can treat cancer. So we don't treat cancer.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: But we do have patients who are undergoing on our
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: oncology treatment, but we are not treating the cancer. And yet,
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: and yet we absolutely know. Way back in it was
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: probably in the nineteen twenties, somebody, a physician called Otto
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Warbook actually discovered that cancer cells are anaerobic. They do
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: not like oxygen. They will not proliferate in an oxygen
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: rich environment, which is you know, that was found out
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: in nineteen twenties. He also discovered the auto wa Book
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: and it was a Nobel Price winner that for medicine
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: and physiology. He also discovered the cancer cells reproduced by glycolysis.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: In other words, they reproduce in a sugar type of environment.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: So if you're eating a lot of sugar and chocolates
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: and sweets and five spoons of sugar in tea, it
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: is not the cancer cells love that, you know, because
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: they can change the way that they reproduce. So by
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: just by cutting down on sugar and breathing oxygen, you
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: are limiting the growth of those cancer cells. Now, far
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: more recently, in twenty twenty, Peter Ratcliffe, another Nobel Prize
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: winner for Medicine and Physiology, he got hit his No
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Belt Prize for looking at hypoxia. And I was fortunate
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: enough to interview him at the Crieg in London in
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: yes in twenty and twenty, so it's about four years
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: ago now. He I'll have to say, was not not
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: very interested in hyperbaric oxygen. Of course scientists aren't they
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: They often have a tunnel vision. But it was so
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: interesting talking to him about hypoxia and how actually how
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: the kidney is. He was looking particularly at the kidneys
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: how they then start to produce an enzyme to increase
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: red cell growth. So he was more looking at hypoxia.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: But if you married that in with hyperbaric oxygen, you
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: can see how when you're in an oxygen rich environment
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: and then as you come out of that you almost
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: induce this is all new research. The body then sees
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: it as a hypoxic situation and so you are stimulating
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: more red cell production even when you come out of
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: the chamber. Amazing what you know we're finding out about
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: hyperbaric oxygen as a therapy.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: It makes you think, isn't it, Jane, that's almost as
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: though main's main well, allopathic medicine. If you like an
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: NHS medicine, don't want the hyperbaric chambers. Because it's so
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: effective and it's so holistic. It kind of does make
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: you think, you know, well, farmer are going to miss out,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: aren't they? If you've got something, you've got something effective
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: like that. And it also interested me hearing you talk
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: about long COVID because Professor Chris Flowers has kind of
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: coined the phrase spike protein disease long covid, depending on
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: which way you're thinking and which way or what the
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: narrative is that you follow. But if, let's say, if
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: long COVID was in fact spike protein disease, have you
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: ever seen or have you ever been approached by any
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: of vaccine injured, for example, hoping maybe that hyperbaric oxygen.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Let's remember to hyper means above and barrack means weight,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: so that's what the words mean. But has anybody from
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: the vaccine injured community contacted you to ask if it
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: may be a benefit to them, and again if they haven't,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: I guess I'll ask the question if you're able to
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: answer it. If you know the answer to that, would
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: it be beneficial to anybody that has got vaccine injuries?
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely it would. Has anybody contacted me, the answer
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: is known. But we do get quite a lot of
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: patients with long COVID And I'm going to be honest
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: here I do not mention the so called vaccine the JAB,
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: because people have taken it in absolute good faith, and
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: if they I think they have to come round themselves
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: to understanding what has happened. I might talk about it briefly.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: But Debbie, what is the point if somebody is suffering
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: and then you say, well you shouldn't have taken the JAB,
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: should you? Do you understand what I'm saying.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Any of the vaccine injured jans, so many of them
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: are wanted us and saying we'll try anything, we you know,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: anything at all. They're just looking for answers and they're
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: being obfuscated by the NHS. They're not being believed, they're
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: not being listened to, they're not being acknowledged, and some
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: of them are taking desperate measures. Some of them are
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: going abroad looking in search of other treatments. And I
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: think it's useful that people know where you are, because
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: that was going to be my next question really to
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: you in that many people that are watching this, myself
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: included I'm in Cornwall, You're in Lancashire in Middleton? Is
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: the unit? So are there any other units in the
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: in the country offering a service like yours? Or how
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: many are hyperbaric oxygen chambers are there in hospitals? For example?
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Where do people look? Do we have a direct treat
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: to refer to?
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: You can tap in hyperbaric oxygen, you know, into Google
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: and it will come up with the We are members
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: of the Hyperbaric Oxygen Treatment Trust, which is based in Scotland,
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: and they have a list of chambers that are well
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: if they are members of the Hyperbaric ox In Treatment Trust.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: But many of the are were set up by the
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Multiple Sclerosis Society and very few of them well, some do,
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: very few will take anything other than patients with multiple sclerosis,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: although I do believe that is changing. And so they're
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: dotted about the country and they're usually charity chambers like ours.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: When we first started, I can say we were the
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: only chamber in the whole of the country and most
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: of Europe actually that would take children. We've had, we've
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: had babies in our chamber. Their use of hould.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: That.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: But there are now more and more chambers popping up here,
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: there and everywhere. But you've got to understand that because
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: there are more chambers coming, it's because for financial reasons.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: The private chambers, I can honestly tell you some of
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: them will charge up to two hundred and eighty pounds
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: for you know, well between one and two hundred and
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: two hundred and you're one that charged two hundred and
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: eighty pounds for one session. We simply ask for a
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: donation of twenty five pounds. We try not. We don't
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: take anything really of any significance from children. We are
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: at charity. And I don't know, of course, this huge
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: expense getting your building, getting your chamber, I mean our
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: chamber when we had it purpose built, which is quite
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: a number of years ago, well I think it was
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: forty eight thousand pounds we race for it. That was
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: thanks to two elderly ladies that helped us out but
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: now that if we had to commission that chamber today,
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: we'd be talking probably one hundred and twenty thousand, one
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: hundred and thirty thousand. So once you've got that, once
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: you've got your census set up, the costs really a minimum.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, our chamber offered to operators who've been fantastic
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: over the years. You know, we're on minimum wage. We've
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: now upped at a bit now that we haven't got
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: this huge costs of building costs. We've got rid of
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: building costs. But how they can justify, how anyone can
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: justify charging even over one hundred pounds, I don't understand it.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: But there are quite a few private chambers dotted about.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: There is another chamber near in Manchester, and I think
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: there is another one opening. The one in Manchester is
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: a charity chamber as well, but again that's rather exclusive
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: to the area of Manchester.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: I have an idea that as people are watching this,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: you're going to probably get inundated, I would imagine because
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: of the service that you're offering and because of the
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: holistic nature of it. So you're running out one hundred
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: and twenty patients a week now, I mean, what is
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: your city, and what can the public do? You know,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: people watching this now and they're probably going, wow, this
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: is an incredible story. This is an amazing service. We
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: would like to contribute to it, whether it be having
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: a coffee morning or coming up and needing needing therapy,
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: or knowing something that needs therapy. How can the public
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: help you? Where do they go to, Katy? Is there
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: somewhere they can donate to?
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: We have we have got a donation button, not on
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: the website, so it's just www dot Breath of Life
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: dot org dot UK.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: Is everybody eligible for hyperbaric oxygen therapy or there are
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: some people that wouldn't wouldn't fit the criteria?
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Jane, We honestly take everybody. It's very very few people
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: we turn away. We are cautious if somebody's got COPD
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: because of their lung capacity to take extra oxygen. So
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: again we don't say no, you can't come, but we
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: would certainly check their oxygen levels before they went into
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: the chamber other than those but we are basically set
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: up to for any kind of neurological problem. Really, but
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: most things have got a neurological basis. If you can
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: understand what I'm saying even if you've got low poor circulation,
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: that is going to affect the brain.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Jane, explain to me because oxygen therapy, I mean, you know,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: we hear, especially in other countries they have oxygen bars
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: and things, and people have oxygen therapy. But hyperbaric oxygen
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: therapies is pressure is a container. When you think of
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: divers with and the bends with hyperbaric oxygen therapy, why
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: does it need to have this special huge chamber? What
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: are the benefits of that?
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: If I can explain a dose of oxygen, it is
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: the compression of the chamber and then delivering one hundred
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: percent pure oxygen. So what happens with the pressure means
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: that the whole of the circulatory system is oxygenating. You're
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: breathing in one hundred percent pure oxygen. And as I say,
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: it's the combination of the pressure and breathing the oxygen
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: through a mask or a hut.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: Can you just explain a hyperbaric oxygen chamber? You don't
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: walk down the street and find one. And if you do,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: are they all the same? Are there different hyperbaric oxygen chambers?
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Do you need to know one to go.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: To a very good question actually, DEBI very good question,
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: because you can walk down the high street now, not
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: when I started several years ago, but you can walk
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: down the high street now and a lot of quite
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: a few beauty parlors or sports club will have a
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: hyperbaric chamber. But these are carbon fiber ones. They don't
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: pressurize to the same amount of pressure that we use,
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: but you are still getting extra oxygen with them. And
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: they usually want mono chambers, you know, you just go
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: and sit in and there's something to look up. These
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: are usually, as I say, on the high Street. Our
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: chamber is called a Type three chamber, so it's classed
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: as a non medical chamber, so we are not we
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: don't come under being checked by the Care Quality Commission
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: because it's deemed so safe that you know, after quite
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: a fight over a few years, Professor James and I
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: managed to get them, if you like, not off the
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: inspection list. But the chambers that are used obviously for diving,
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: and obviously those that are in the hospital medical chambers,
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: and these are usually mono chambers, only taking one patient
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: at a time. Some of them take more when the
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: doctor or the nurse will go in the chamber when
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: they are monitoring as seriously ill patient and this could
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: be somebody as I say, with carbon monoxide poisoning or
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: the dives, and of course they can have their blood
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: glasses checked all the time and ECG monitoring. The hour's
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: chamber is quite simply. You walk in, you sit down,
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: so as if you're getting you know, for an afternoon
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: out or a morning out. For an hour and a half.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: So you are in our chamber for an hour and
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: a half. We take five at a time, five patients.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: Sometimes there's only one or two in sometimes four, sometimes five,
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: but we can't take five. And you are in the
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: chamber for an hour and a half because it's fifteen
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: minutes to compress to the equivalent of twenty four feet
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: in diving terms. Then you put on your mask or
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: your hood and you breathe the oxygen at one hundred
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: percent for one hour. Then the mask comes off and
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: you decompress then for another fifteen minutes. As we now
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: know from the work that Peter Radcliffe has done, that
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: putting the party, if you like, into a state of
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: hypops means that the chamber is still doing it stuff,
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: it's still working, but ours is cast as a non
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: medical Chamber. I hope that explains it for you. Debbie.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: It's just simply wonderful, wonderful achievement. I mean, I can't
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: believe that you've done this pretty much. I know that
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: you've had, you know, all of your amazing team, and
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: you've had support, and you've had people raising money, but predominantly, Jane,
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: you've done this as a one woman mission. And I
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: just have so much respect, and like I say to
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: people watching that are desperate to try and contact you
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: and want to know more, all of the details are
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: going to be beneath this interview. But I'm looking at
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: the clock and we said we do this interview in
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: two halves, and of course we're running out of time,
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: which means that we're going to have to book up
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: to do a second interview. But for the last few minutes,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: I just want to take everybody back to how I
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: first how I first met you, and it was going
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: back to heal the sick, and there is your beautiful
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: silver buckle. I had one very similar and it's nursing
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: in the NHS in the nineteen sixties. And you know, Jane,
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: I'm hearing from so many patients at the moment that
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: they're worried, they're scared. They expect nurses to sit on
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: their beds like we did, to hold their hands, to
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: be there for them, hands to hold, not iPads. And
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: our training was very different and yours. I mean, it
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: all started to change, didn't it. And that's why I
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: was any newly training nurses or qualified nurses to understand
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: how we were trained and to understand nursing in our day.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: Please read this because you won't. You won't read it
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: and see it anywhere else. And history is starting to
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: fade and we need to bring the times of caring back.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: But in the sixties, Jane, you were training, and like me,
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: it was a vocation. How old were you when you
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: suddenly came to the realization that you.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: Wanted to be a nurse? As long as I can remember,
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: my mother used to say, as soon as I could walk,
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: I wanted to be a nurse. So yes, nursing, what's
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: a vocation? And I believe that was the same for
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: my cohort to my pts. When we started.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: It was a complete honor to be accepted for nurse
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: training in our days. For me, there was I think
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: there were four hundred applications and there were only seventy
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: of us that were accepted. And you know, the NHS
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: are complaining that they have retention problems at the moment,
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: and at the seventy that started when I started at
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: the Royal Free back in nineteen seventy six. Only three
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: dropped out over three years. And they dropped out because
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: they got married and got pregnant and had babies. That's
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: why they dropped out. We had very little drop out
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: and like I say, the majority, sixty seven of us qualified.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: And I'm at the conference Bob Moran was talking, and
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: I remember looking at Bob Moran's hands and thinking of
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: the amazing drawings that he does and the gifts that
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: he's got, and that he uses his hands. And I
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: remember my grandmother saying to me when I had my daughter,
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: She held her hand and said, what will these hands
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: do as they get older? And I look at my hands,
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: and I look at your hands and the hands that
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: we've held along the way, and we still need to
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: hold Where have we gone wrong, Jane? What's gone wrong?
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: It's not us that have gone wrong, Debbie, it's the
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: system that has been so altered. I can remember it
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: was nineteen seventy nine, somebody had put me forward for
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: one of these Nurses of the Year awards. I think
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: it was rung by the Daily Express, I think, and
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: it was at the time of a Salmonar report coming
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: in which was looking at a more academic style of training,
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: university style training and getting rid of the apprentice style
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: training that we had, although it's still, of course, as
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: you know, we still had blocks, three month blocks in school.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: We were still being taught. And I went before this
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: panel two or three times and they kept saying about
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: university education for nurses, and I still have I said, no,
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: it is not necessary. That is not what is going
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: to make a good nurse. I said, a degree is
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: not going to make a good nurse. You know, nursing
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: is very, very practical, and I think that's why I
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: lost out. Actually, I knew what they wanted me to
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: say was, yes, let's go for the university. But of
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: course lots of things happened, didn't it. I think it
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: was nineteen eighty six that we started to then move
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: nurses into the university system. And I don't even think
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: we can compare like we'd like, Debbie, because it is
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: so different. And in recent years with my husband spent
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: quite a lot of time in hospital and in the
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: Royal Free I might add. One said, and I stayed
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: with him twelve hours a day because the nursing wasn't there.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's an awful thing to say, isn't it.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: I mean we also had a routine going, and all
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: those routines seem to have fallen away. We were looked after, Jane,
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: And I think as I've spoken to newly qualified nurses
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: and nurses that are training now, they don't they're not
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: being looked after. They're in university for eighteen months. Nurses,
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: like you've just said, they don't need university academic courses.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: We went to the University of Nursing. We were there
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: on the wards. It was people think that because we
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: didn't go to university, then we're not clever. We still
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: went to school, and you don't need to be clever
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: to care. You don't need to be clever to be compassionate.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: You just need to be kind. And you know, in
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: our day, it was a joy. And we got accommodation.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: Yes that's right, new nurses, if you're watching, we got accommodation,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: and we had a home warden as well, making sure
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: that we were doing what we should be doing and
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: that we were okay. We supported each other, and we
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: had a hospital laundry, and we sent our uniforms. To goodness,
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: we'd get told off if we tried to wash our
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: uniforms ourselves. They'd have to be boiled, and they were
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: all labeled. Like when you were at school, we had
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: a subsidized canteen, we had transport. You've written about it
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: in your book, Jane. You've written and you've written all
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: about your experiences. You've written about the history, the history
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: of when things started to change. And I can see
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: that even when I started in the seventies, it had
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: just started just started to change into patient centered plans,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: a little bit different, just a little nuance from when
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: you trained in the sixties. And from there on in
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: we went into something called Project two thousand where we
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: sent all of these nurses to university and it wasn't
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: until they got on the war eighteen months later they
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: decided they didn't actually want to nurse and they didn't
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: like nursing, and we lost loads. And we are absolutely
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: passionate about nursing. And I really want to do another
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: interview with regards to just purely nursing. But for now quickly,
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: because your old school. I'm old school, and you have
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: got the experience, Jane, of knowing what it was like.
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: When we had Hong Kong flu in nineteen sixty eight,
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, I was about eleven, and I remember
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: my mom went down with it, my grandmother went down
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: with it, my grandfather went down with it. We were
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: all very very ill for quite a while, and there
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: was only one lou So it was challenging. But you
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: nursed through it. And we've just gone through this COVID.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: What's the difference. Tell us what is the difference? Even
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: don't get me going, Debbie.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: See when it first came out about COVID and and
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: you you know, they said it was a coronavirus, and
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: I thought, well, we nursed it. That was a ownA
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: virus in nineteen sixty eight sixty nine was called Asian
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: flu or Hong Kong flu, and there was no people
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: have forgotten about it. Almost eighty thousand people died in
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: this country and nobody seemed to remember. So my views
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: on COVID came from experience because I had nursed through
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: a true pandemic where it was hitting all age groups,
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: you know, from children right through to the elderly. The
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: martrees were full throughout the country. There were cold storage
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: wagons in the car parks of hospitals. But people have
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: forgotten about it because life carried on. There was no
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: thought of schools closing, oh you know, being locked up,
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: like they tried to lock everybody up. I just refused
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: any of it. And on the wards it was strenuous.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: But even some of my colleagues had said, oh yeah,
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, but you'll notice reading the books. There's only
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: the book. There's only two of my colleagues have mentioned
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: Hong Kong flu because you just got on with it. Now,
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: we have no pp on the wards. You washed your hands.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: The only times you put gloves on the ward was
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: if you were doing a surgical dressing. So we didn't
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: have gloves. We weren't masks. We didn't have any disposable
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: masks or gowns. We had our apron. So I could
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: not understand what was happening in the country. And when
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: I tried to talk to people and say, this is
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: not a true pandemic. It's not a pandemic. It's only
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: affecting the elderly and those with pre existing conditions. I said,
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: there's something sinister going on here and out of it
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: all out of it or Debbie. I think the most
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: egregious was when they closed down places of worship churches,
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: and I could not Honestly, I still can't believe it.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: A few people I know said exactly the same about churches.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: They weren't allowed to sing, they weren't allowed to go
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: to church. But the minute the vaccine rollout started and
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: they started to administrate it in church halls and churches,
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden they.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: Reilab back in. I know, yeah, I know there's something
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: I'm saying sinister going on. There is, and there's you know,
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: there must be more like you and I, Debbie, who
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: can see through it. It was an absolute, total sham,
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: total sham.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: Jane, what you've just said, You're right, people have forgotten,
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: and we've been saying a lot about how history is
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: suddenly just vanishing. People are forgetting people are forgetting COVID.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: There is no there's nobody's doing diaries on every day
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: of what's happened during COVID. People have been too busy
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: on Zoom or they've been on WhatsApp or has been
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: digital and the history's gone. People have forgotten. Young mums
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: don't know about it. Yeah, that's they've they've forgotten. And that,
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: I think is why it is so important that our
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: generation baby boomers, that we stand up together and we
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: show the youngsters what it was like in our day,
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: because what do the public expect of nurses? And I
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: just read an article and I am keeping an eye
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: on the clock because I know that sadly we're running
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: out of time. But I read an article the other
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: day written by a professor who said that perhaps the
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: word nurse and care should be separated, and I was horrified,
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: because inextricably linked. But what she said was that nurses
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: now have become more technicians. They're they're in my opinion,
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: they're they're performing more of a junior doctor role than
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: they are hands on patient care, holding hands TLC basic
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: nursing care role. And what she said was that since
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: pupil nurse is stating rolled nurses, auxiliary nurses have been banished,
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: we now have a new breed of health care assistance,
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: and therefore it's the health care assistance that give care
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: and no longer the nurses. So Actually, the public shouldn't
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: expect nurses to take their pulse, talk to them, wash them,
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: feed them, bed bath them, care for them, how to
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: them communicate with them, touch them, what the reactions?
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: Well, the problem is technology is take note for Debby.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: You see, when the technology takes over the nurses now
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: and the doctors, I think if they've lost their autonomy.
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: They are spending so much time looking at the machine
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: and not making the observations that we were making. So yes,
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: we might have been holding their hands, but we were
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: look at watching their color, their reactions. We were making
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: observations of the patient, and it was innate in us.
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: We just did it. But now this is why I
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: like to keep reminding myself. I know, I keep bringing
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: back into midwa three. You see, now probably midwives wouldn't
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: know how to use this to listen to a baby's heartbeat.
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: But when you are listening like that and you are
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: in contact with that abdomen, you are in tune with
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: the baby and you can pick up any differences in heartbeat.
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: So what do we do? And out We're putting an
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: electrode on the baby's head so that the midwifeld coming
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: and she'll be looking at the machine, you know, looking
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: at all it's reams of paper that's coming out to me.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: We have lost something, We've lost the art of touch, because.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: Jane, I wish that I could hug you through the screen,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: because it's exactly how I feel. And I was never
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: a midwife, but I remember the OBS rounds, right, and
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: walking going with my trolley with my spig mormonometer and
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: my steposcope, and I had everybody's charts, fluid balance charts,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: and we do those obs perhaps four hourly, perhaps four
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: times a day, maybe one hourly, half hourly, whatever. But
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: we weren't just taking a blood pressure. We were taking
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: a pulp and we were noting the rates, the rhythm,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: the volume. You can't do that on a machine. We
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: were carrying patient respirations. You know, a machine might say
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: to you old patients respirations are twenty, but actually they
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: they might not be regular, they might not be deep,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: they might be shallow, the patient might be pale. In
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: that time that we were filling up water jugs, that
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: we were making sure a patient had something to drink,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: that we were doing our observations, that we were on
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: a drug round. We had one to one contact with
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: that patient. We were on the ward all the time,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: all the time, the patients knew who we were, and
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: more importantly, we knew all of our patients, and if
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: we didn't, we were in trouble. Because we knew all
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: of our patients, We knew their relatives, we knew what
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: they liked, what they didn't like, We heard about their problems,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: and it was that golden time, that one to one
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: time when we were with them, talking to them, by
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: their side. That was the most precious time. And we
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: were the bridge, the bridge between a consultant coming around
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: with a load of students and maybe speaking in a
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: language that they didn't understand. The patients were scared. Nobody
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: likes to be in hospital, right, nobody. Different smells, different food,
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: different people, different noises, You're worried about what's going on
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: at home. We were the bridge, and it seems as
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: though that bridge has now gone, and I desperately want
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: to bring it back. You desperately want to bring it back.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: And that's what nursing is all about, right, Yeah.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: That world that we knew has gone. It's gone. And
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: also there's been a change in bed structure. And read
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: this from the King's front at how the number of
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: beds have gone. So if we're look at in the
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventies, there were four hundred thousand NHS beds for
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: a population a fifty five million. In twenty twenty there
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: were one hundred and forty one thousand beds for approximately
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: sixty nine million people. Now we can put the loss
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: of beds down. I know they closed a lot of
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: the huge mental institutions, so that would take away some beds,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: and of course a lot of maternity beds went because
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: we used to in those days. If somebody went in
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: for the first baby, they stayed in for ten days.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: Somebody who had a cesarean section would be in for
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: two weeks. But other things day beds have taken over.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: But things have changed so much. And if we go
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: back to looking at COVID as well, since when Debbie,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: did doctors follow government dicta? I mean doctors made used
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: to make their own diagnoses, you know, with their help,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: they knew how to treat their patients and with what drugs,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: and all that seems to have gone. There is no
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: individual care.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: I hear your passion, and before I throw to you
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: for your last word aside saying get uniform ready matron,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: because I'm ready to go back on duty. I also
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: want to say that when I was in when I
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: had my daughter, my first, I was in for eight
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: days and she was taken off to the nursery so
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: that I could have some rest. I was looked after.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: If a patient came in and had hysterecto me. They
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: were normally in ten days to two weeks total hip replacement.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: You could be looking at three weeks, four weeks, possibly convalescence.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: What's that you ask yourself. That's a whole other interview.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: And here I'm hearing today of women that are going
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: in and having caesarean sections that are literally admitted and
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: discharged within twenty four hours. I'm hearing of people having
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: total hip replacements that are admitted and discharged the next day.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: One of my own family had a cardiac surgical procedure
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: a Tavvy, an elderly member of the family. She was
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: admitted to intensive care one day and discharged from intensive
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: care the next day after the procedure. So hospitals are
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: not where anybody wants to be, but they're certainly not
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: where the NHS want you to be. And I think
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: that's probably a pertinent moment to enter today. For anybody
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: out there that's scared to go to the NHS, because
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: I know that a lot of people are scared at
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: the moment. What I'd say is, if you're watching this,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: and if you're watching UK column, you're going to know,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: you're going to be very well aware of some of
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: the pitfalls. And we've spoken many times about don't be scared,
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: be aware. Take somebody with you when you go for
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: your appointment, make sure somebody knows what you're having done
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: and what your wishes are. Perhaps make a living will.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: But Jane and I come from the same stable where
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: hands were held, not iPads, and we're going to be
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: having more interviews with Jane, and we're going to be
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: talking about nursing and what the public expect nurses to be,
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: who they expect them to be. Do you want uniforms back?
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: I do. Do you want to see the nurses on
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: the wards, not in an office? I do so. On
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: that note, Jane, an extraordinary, extraordinary journey and adventure that
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: you've had, and my goodness, what an incredible achievement. I
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: can't thank you enough. I'm sure there are going to
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: be lots of people wanting to contact you and to
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: help the charity. But for now, Jane Senior Matron, thank you,
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: and it's over to you for your last word.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Debbie. It's been a pleasure chatting. So my
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: last word would be to everyone to really take control
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: of your own health because your health is God given.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: You have an immune system there and to me that
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: is the most important thing. But do not be afraid
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: to go into hospital if you have an acute condition,
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: if you have broken your life, you've been in an accident.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: Obviously you need the services at the hospital and there
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: are good people working, particularly in trauma in the trauma units.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: But basically you must we've got to all start and
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: take control back and looking after your own health actually
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: is the choices that you make. It's the choices keep
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: hold of your own health because as I've said, it's
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: God given. So you are in control of what you eat,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: what you drink, what you take into your body, and
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: just know that your body always wants to be well,
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: always wants to be well, and take care of yourself.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: That's my sig