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Transcript

Mental Load · I Hate Talking

• 0:29
  I Hate Talking: Welcome to episode 22 of I Hate Talking.
• 0:33
  I Hate Talking: Hi everyone.
• 0:34
  I Hate Talking: So we will continue on another 3-part miniseries apparently, maybe 4 parts if we go along on this episode.
• 0:44
  I Hate Talking: So take it away on our word or phrase of this episode as it relates to fatigue.
• 0:50
  I Hate Talking: We're gonna talk about mental load.
• 0:53
  I Hate Talking: So, mental load, also known as cognitive labor.
• 0:58
  I Hate Talking: Is the cognitive effort required in management of your work, relationships, family, and household.
• 1:07
  I Hate Talking: It is the invisible, non-tangible tasks that involve thinking about your responsibilities, making decisions, and managing the details throughout the day.
• 1:20
  I Hate Talking: And when you engage in that mental load, if it is too excessive, then you will have mental fatigue.
• 1:28
  I Hate Talking: Is that true?
• 1:28
  I Hate Talking: Correct, I think so.
• 1:30
  I Hate Talking: So we have discussed change fatigue, decision fatigue, and on our potentially 3rd and last episode on fatigue, we'll be talking about mental fatigue as it relates to an outcome of mental overload.
• 1:47
  I Hate Talking: Sure, sounds great.
• 1:49
  I Hate Talking: So, um, the term mental load, I feel like is a hot topic nowadays, um, Being stereotypical, I feel like a lot of women really resonate with it, and men uh oppose it.
• 2:06
  I Hate Talking: And again, the stereotypical is not across the board, but it's definitely what I see in social media.
• 2:12
  I Hate Talking: It's definitely what I've experienced personally.
• 2:16
  I Hate Talking: So I think it'll be good to talk about because I don't know if you believe in mental load, do you?
• 2:22
  I Hate Talking: Well, to be quite transparent, I don't think I've even heard the phrase mental load until our last episode where you quoted that at the very end.
• 2:33
  I Hate Talking: So this is certainly not something that I see in any of the literature that I'm reading or any of the content that I'm consuming in my normal routine.
• 2:44
  I Hate Talking: OK, well, some examples of a mental load, if that would help out, would be anticipating needs.
• 2:52
  I Hate Talking: Finding solutions, making decisions, monitoring progress, overseeing tasks or schedules.
• 3:02
  I Hate Talking: Making a to do list, grocery list, chore list, giving out reminders, and offering praise for chores.
• 3:11
  I Hate Talking: So I think I would agree that there is an aspect of truth to mental load and that there is true capacity and energy needed for doing all those things that you described and they are more, I suppose, mentally challenging.
• 3:32
  I Hate Talking: It's not taking necessarily any physical effort or emotional effort.
• 3:37
  I Hate Talking: It's more just mental things that you're doing.
• 3:41
  I Hate Talking: To think and plan and manage, which I think that's a key aspect in the definition that was not present in necessarily those list of activities because those are more, I think just the thinking aspect of mental load perhaps.
• 3:56
  I Hate Talking: So I do agree that all that is true.
• 4:00
  I Hate Talking: But in the same way, change is true and decision making is true.
• 4:07
  I Hate Talking: So just because you have to utilize your mental faculties on a regular basis does not mean that there's anything necessarily special about that unless you are specifically being mentally overloaded, which is I think a key difference here is that mental load exists and it will exist for everyone.
• 4:29
  I Hate Talking: And it exists every day and it's not really all that special.
• 4:33
  I Hate Talking: So, if we are differentiating it in the fact that the mental overload and the resulting fatigue is what we're talking about and what we need to specifically address and overcome and avoid and put together strategy to avoid that, I think that I would agree with that.
• 4:53
  I Hate Talking: Right.
• 4:53
  I Hate Talking: So, I definitely think everyone has a mental load.
• 4:57
  I Hate Talking: Everyone can develop mental fatigue by thinking about all these things, but as a fun game, I didn't tell you we're going to do this.
• 5:07
  I Hate Talking: Off the top of your head, what is on your to do list tomorrow?
• 5:11
  I Hate Talking: So there's Three major things on my to do list.
• 5:17
  I Hate Talking: One is relating to a lease negotiation.
• 5:23
  I Hate Talking: One is related to a number of meetings that I have at work, and then number 3 is Relating to some specific tasks that I need to get done for work.
• 5:37
  I Hate Talking: And then actually I guess there is a 4th that now I'm thinking about it and have to think that far in advance because that wouldn't even really come into my mind until having finished those 3 things.
• 5:47
  I Hate Talking: So maybe that's An indication that I'm mentally overloaded or perhaps that's something that I do naturally as a strategy to avoid mental overload.
• 6:00
  I Hate Talking: Uh, there's a 4th thing where I am co-hosting a meeting for a particular group that I am a leader within.
• 6:09
  I Hate Talking: OK, and that's your to do list for tomorrow?
• 6:13
  I Hate Talking: Those are the things that would be on my to do list as sort of -- abnormal or non-standard's -- like when you think about in your brain like I need to do.
• 6:25
  I Hate Talking: What tomorrow?
• 6:27
  I Hate Talking: That's, that's what comes to mind to those four things.
• 6:30
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 6:30
  I Hate Talking: Tomorrow, what comes to my mind?
• 6:34
  I Hate Talking: As I wake up, I need to fold the laundry, I need to get the kids' clothes, I need to make sure the doctor's appointments are checked.
• 6:42
  I Hate Talking: We haven't gotten dental appointments in a while.
• 6:45
  I Hate Talking: The kids have been good, but we haven't, so I need to schedule those.
• 6:48
  I Hate Talking: I need to pack their school lunches.
• 6:51
  I Hate Talking: I need to do their homeschooling.
• 6:54
  I Hate Talking: I need to check the birthdays that are coming up and send those cards out.
• 7:00
  I Hate Talking: I need to make sure that you're ready for dinner.
• 7:05
  I Hate Talking: We're gonna probably have Shabu Shabu because it's a light day tomorrow.
• 7:08
  I Hate Talking: We don't have as much stuff as we normally do.
• 7:10
  I Hate Talking: So we can have a long dinner.
• 7:13
  I Hate Talking: Let's have shabu Shabu.
• 7:14
  I Hate Talking: So I need to prep the food.
• 7:15
  I Hate Talking: I just got the delivery 20 minutes ago at my front door for groceries, so I just put those away, so I just need to cut that vegetables up, no problem.
• 7:24
  I Hate Talking: I need to make sure kids brush their teeth.
• 7:27
  I Hate Talking: I need to clean the bedrooms, I need to wash the bedding, cause we didn't do that this weekend.
• 7:33
  I Hate Talking: I need to make sure that they go outside at some point tomorrow.
• 7:36
  I Hate Talking: I should clean out the car.
• 7:38
  I Hate Talking: I need, we are out of milk, cause I didn't order that and we're almost out, so we need to go to the store to get milk.
• 7:46
  I Hate Talking: That's literally like just the things off the top of my head right now without even thinking.
• 7:50
  I Hate Talking: Plus, like all your reg, you know, your regular like responding to messages and uh work-related emails and all that.
• 7:59
  I Hate Talking: -- So -- I suppose those are things that must be done tomorrow or in a Daily routine, but I think I would differentiate.
• 8:10
  I Hate Talking: routine and non-routine in my to do list and where it takes my mental capacity because a number of those things that you described, if I had those under my specific personal purview of responsibility, would not take any place in my mind because I would just write them down or put them on a list and then look at that at some point.
• 8:40
  I Hate Talking: In that day or throughout the week and be able to look at that and plan for that and do those things accordingly.
• 8:48
  I Hate Talking: And if you'll notice those 3 and actually 4 things that I described for my to do list tomorrow are completely non-standard.
• 8:59
  I Hate Talking: These are things that I do almost nearly on a non-regular basis.
• 9:04
  I Hate Talking: One of these things is a once in a lifetime thing.
• 9:07
  I Hate Talking: Once one of these things is a once in a week thing.
• 9:11
  I Hate Talking: One of these things is due to a major software change, so that is maybe every quarter and the other thing is an annual thing.
• 9:22
  I Hate Talking: So these are things that are way outside of the routine when they are taking part in my mental to do list.
• 9:30
  I Hate Talking: But did you have to think about what you're eating tomorrow?
• 9:32
  I Hate Talking: No, -- because -- I don't have a wife that does that for you.
• 9:37
  I Hate Talking: Most days, that's true.
• 9:41
  I Hate Talking: And on the days that that doesn't happen because you're dealing with other priorities, then I will just Do what I need to do to Eat something or skip a meal or whatever the case may be, but you can't do that 7 days a week because you're eating junk then or you are not eating.
• 9:59
  I Hate Talking: So you have to have some kind of plan, right, to eat a whole well-balanced diet.
• 10:06
  I Hate Talking: Well, there you go.
• 10:07
  I Hate Talking: We're again foreshadowing a future episode on ketosis and one meal a day.
• 10:14
  I Hate Talking: You want to talk about keto so bad.
• 10:16
  I Hate Talking: Well, you threw it in this time.
• 10:18
  I Hate Talking: I said well balanced.
• 10:20
  I Hate Talking: We'll talk about keto.
• 10:22
  I Hate Talking: It's his second love.
• 10:24
  I Hate Talking: Now, I do have a running to do list that I keep on a sheet of paper for work.
• 10:30
  I Hate Talking: I have, when things are very busy, a similar to do list on a sheet of paper or on a phone application that keeps a running list of smaller tasks that must be done.
• 10:44
  I Hate Talking: Uh, there's even right now I think.
• 10:47
  I Hate Talking: Some things that we have on the grocery list and some things that are on our house repair or routine maintenance type things that are on our list that I'll look at occasionally and see where we can fit that into our life to be able to work on some of those things.
• 11:05
  I Hate Talking: So I think that for those, again, I would categorize them as more routine things are gonna be put on a list.
• 11:11
  I Hate Talking: I'll look at the list and therefore it will not take any mental capacity on my part.
• 11:17
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 11:18
  I Hate Talking: According to the great Google, there's 4 stages of mental load.
• 11:22
  I Hate Talking: Which are anticipating needs.
• 11:26
  I Hate Talking: Finding solutions to meet the need, making decisions, and then monitoring the progress.
• 11:33
  I Hate Talking: So I did not know that because I had up until last week, never even heard this term.
• 11:39
  I Hate Talking: So I think that is something that does cause mental load, and I think everybody needs to go through those steps, but again, I'm failing to find how it negatively affects a person because mental load seems like that it's something that everybody has to deal with and everybody needs to do well.
• 12:03
  I Hate Talking: So I'm wondering if there is a distinction that I've previously described in terms of there being mental overload, and that's really what we need to avoid.
• 12:15
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I think so.
• 12:16
  I Hate Talking: I think it's the mental overload part cause everybody, no matter your age or status in life, has a mental load if you're considering like, what you think about on your to do list.
• 12:29
  I Hate Talking: Um, I think where it becomes a hot button topic is that Often women are ascribed or assumed to have more of the mental load than men.
• 12:42
  I Hate Talking: Um, because it is in our culture, the woman that typically, not always but often, is responsible for birthdays.
• 12:55
  I Hate Talking: So maybe I have to remind you, oh, it's so and so's birthday, or I bought that birthday gift or anniversary gift, the kids' doctor's appointments, dentist appointments, the grocery delivery order, all that kind of thing tends to fall even when statistically.
• 13:13
  I Hate Talking: Men and women both work full time.
• 13:15
  I Hate Talking: The women often are more responsible for those items.
• 13:19
  I Hate Talking: And so you're right, I think it's more of a mental overload, a fatigue of just this constant, in my brain, I can feel it.
• 13:28
  I Hate Talking: It's a constant running list of what I need to do.
• 13:33
  I Hate Talking: And it took me forever to order salt.
• 13:36
  I Hate Talking: So many times in my brain, I'd use the salt, cooking and think, oh, I need to order more salt.
• 13:42
  I Hate Talking: We even had a visitor recently while I was using the salt, and I told him, don't let me forget to add salt to my grocery list.
• 13:51
  I Hate Talking: And we moved on with our lives, and I forgot to add salt.
• 13:56
  I Hate Talking: I finally got it.
• 13:57
  I Hate Talking: We have salt, hooray.
• 13:59
  I Hate Talking: But I think it's like this constant, even if I have it written down, it's still this constant running to do list in my brain.
• 14:09
  I Hate Talking: Of everything, all the anticipating all the needs of our family.
• 14:14
  I Hate Talking: And I do agree that I think in typical gender roles that is true that the significant events and more of the household management does fall to the woman of the household, whereas the man is perhaps more responsible for breadwinning or taking care of more of the physical nature of things, so, uh.
• 14:40
  I Hate Talking: Taking care of the house or yard work or whatever the case may be.
• 14:44
  I Hate Talking: But nonetheless, I think that a lot of vocations as well as just those things that fall within the routine maintenance would still be categorized under.
• 14:57
  I Hate Talking: A quote unquote running to do list.
• 15:00
  I Hate Talking: So I think that from my own perspective.
• 15:05
  I Hate Talking: That these things could be combated or avoided by.
• 15:10
  I Hate Talking: Putting together a.
• 15:13
  I Hate Talking: Robust system for tracking these things, removing the mental load from your mental capacities and using the system to support.
• 15:25
  I Hate Talking: I, I can see where you're coming from, from our conversation, but do you know how many birthdays of family members do we have this week?
• 15:35
  I Hate Talking: Well, first, I would have to think what date it is cause I don't even know that because it doesn't take part of my mental capacity.
• 15:42
  I Hate Talking: I can use this device that tells me that today is this date and I don't even have to think about that.
• 15:50
  I Hate Talking: So, This particular August 29th.
• 15:55
  I Hate Talking: In the following 7 days.
• 15:58
  I Hate Talking: I would say that there was.
• 16:01
  I Hate Talking: No birthdays because none come to my mind.
• 16:05
  I Hate Talking: There's 5.
• 16:07
  I Hate Talking: So, I understand your argument would be, that shouldn't be part of my mental load cause you would put it in your phone to remind you, order these birthday presents.
• 16:17
  I Hate Talking: Right?
• 16:18
  I Hate Talking: And you would not, that would not bother you.
• 16:20
  I Hate Talking: Precisely, because if this was my particular responsibility, which again, I don't know if we've really come to a particular verbal conclusion.
• 16:29
  I Hate Talking: It's more that these things have landed in your sphere of responsibility and these are things that you take care of again, whether that be Gender roles are just our particular relationship and how we have divided duties.
• 16:42
  I Hate Talking: But if it was my particular duty, yes, I would have a system to track this so that it was not needed to be remembered in my mind through a running to do list or just happening to look at the calendar and thinking ahead.
• 16:58
  I Hate Talking: I would have this documented and planned.
• 17:03
  I Hate Talking: In some form of software or system, and I don't think that's a stretch, right?
• 17:09
  I Hate Talking: I don't think that I'm just theorizing that because that is how I approach life for things that I am responsible for.
• 17:16
  I Hate Talking: I will document, I will take notes, I will have reminders, I will plan, I will have these lists and things that I track both on paper as well as within software for the things that I am responsible for.
• 17:29
  I Hate Talking: Right, but you still even If you had all that, you still would have to take the time to put so and so's birthday in and set a reminder.
• 17:40
  I Hate Talking: And then you'd have to take the time to see that reminder, look on Amazon, or think about what they would need or want, and take the time to order that.
• 17:50
  I Hate Talking: I feel like it has to be meaningful.
• 17:52
  I Hate Talking: Don't just send willy-nilly or ignore it.
• 17:56
  I Hate Talking: Like, if we're gonna send a gift, they want it to be a meaningful gift.
• 17:59
  I Hate Talking: So you have to stop and think about what does that person like.
• 18:02
  I Hate Talking: What are their hobbies, what could be useful to them?
• 18:06
  I Hate Talking: And then you have to think what's in my price range.
• 18:08
  I Hate Talking: All right, I'm sending this, what's their address?
• 18:11
  I Hate Talking: And even if Amazon saves addresses, which ours does, you still have to scroll down, make sure that it's the right address, and send it, and make sure that you're sending a message or a card when their actual birthday comes, still send a text or a call.
• 18:28
  I Hate Talking: See how like each one of these is more of a step.
• 18:30
  I Hate Talking: It's not just my phone tells me it's so and so's birthday.
• 18:33
  I Hate Talking: I suppose so, but to put it in perspective of maybe how I have a particular task in the workplace is that I will have a meeting on my calendar.
• 18:44
  I Hate Talking: It does have the reminder.
• 18:46
  I Hate Talking: I do typically at the end of the day, look at what I have on the next day or at the start of the day, look at what I have on the agenda for that day.
• 18:54
  I Hate Talking: And then I have to think about that meeting and have to think about who's gonna be on that meeting and if I need to have anything particularly prepared for that meeting, do I need to review any notes from previous meetings?
• 19:05
  I Hate Talking: Do I need to have a particular presentation?
• 19:08
  I Hate Talking: am I actually going to be hosting or just a participant and things of that nature.
• 19:14
  I Hate Talking: So again, I think all that is real, but I think it's so normal unless we're talking about mental overload.
• 19:24
  I Hate Talking: Right, yeah, no, I think that's what it means, mental load means, like, when you hear that term, It often means the woman.
• 19:33
  I Hate Talking: Statistically, it has more of a running to do list than the man in our culture.
• 19:42
  I Hate Talking: Cause even when we were, I worked full time and we both worked full-time professional careers, I was still the one on my lunch break that went to get lunch, like grocery shopped for our food, and was still responsible for when it was uh anniversary or a birthday.
• 20:02
  I Hate Talking: So I guess I would agree that that is a typical gender role division of duties.
• 20:11
  I Hate Talking: I think that is true in Both fictional and nonfictional literature and you know, situational comedies and things of that nature where that.
• 20:21
  I Hate Talking: Is true in art and art reflects life.
• 20:26
  I Hate Talking: But nonetheless, I think that men have their own things that they have to.
• 20:34
  I Hate Talking: Endure from my mental load perspective and again, all those things that you mentioned in terms of the four steps.
• 20:40
  I Hate Talking: Predicting the needs and making decision and planning accordingly and monitoring progress that those things will be present.
• 20:48
  I Hate Talking: For things that men do as well.
• 20:52
  I Hate Talking: So is it the fact that perhaps you're positing that women have just more in number or More complexity around the things that they have within their mental load.
• 21:07
  I Hate Talking: Hmm, that's a good question.
• 21:09
  I Hate Talking: My instinct is to say both, to both.
• 21:12
  I Hate Talking: I think that at least for me, it's a bunch of little things that add up.
• 21:18
  I Hate Talking: Cause I feel like I take on a lot of, like, you're so helpful um with the kids and do so much.
• 21:28
  I Hate Talking: But I do feel like a lot of times I, I'm still the one that's like, hey, so and so has a dentist appointment, or they're about to get braces in a couple of weeks.
• 21:37
  I Hate Talking: Yay.
• 21:38
  I Hate Talking: Uh, so we have to schedule the orthodontist or insurance covered and all that kind of stuff.
• 21:45
  I Hate Talking: Uh, all those little things, and then just like, how is he gonna do when he gets his braces.
• 21:51
  I Hate Talking: Uh, maybe we should do this for him or do that to help ease the pain or ease the anxiety.
• 21:58
  I Hate Talking: And so I think a bunch of everyone else's emotions also uh needs add to the weight of the problem and uh make it feel so much heavier than if I was just caring for myself alone.
• 22:14
  I Hate Talking: The smaller in nature, but a much larger number.
• 22:18
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I think that's fair to say.
• 22:20
  I Hate Talking: And who's getting braces?
• 22:22
  I Hate Talking: OK, we'll cut that part out, edit, edit.
• 22:26
  I Hate Talking: See, that's part of my mental.
• 22:28
  I Hate Talking: OK, we shouldn't cut that because it shows right there.
• 22:32
  I Hate Talking: You said, who is, and I had to tell you who is.
• 22:35
  I Hate Talking: I still have to carry the load emotionally and mentally for who is going to their consultation for their braces.
• 22:44
  I Hate Talking: Yes, but for my defense, I was clarifying because I did know that we were going for a consultation, not necessarily like this is happening and he's has a specific schedule set for it to be installed on that particular date.
• 23:01
  I Hate Talking: Correct.
• 23:02
  I Hate Talking: It is not.
• 23:02
  I Hate Talking: But I'm still responsible.
• 23:04
  I Hate Talking: I know that that isn't set.
• 23:06
  I Hate Talking: You weren't sure if it was a consult or actual braces.
• 23:10
  I Hate Talking: No, I.
• 23:11
  I Hate Talking: was clarifying because I knew that there was the potential and that would make sense from a consultation perspective, but you made it sound like this was happening, so I was clarifying because I was not aware of anyone that we knew where it was like actually happening and not just an exploratory conversation at this point.
• 23:30
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 23:31
  I Hate Talking: So, for a number of things we've talked about with Change fatigue or decision fatigue, we have some sort of strategy to deal with these things, so.
• 23:43
  I Hate Talking: Is there a strategy to deal with mental and I'm catching myself because I'm referring to as mental overload because I think that's really the only thing that you would need to have a strategy about because mental load is normal and natural and everybody experiences that in my opinion.
• 24:01
  I Hate Talking: I can see where you're coming from.
• 24:03
  I Hate Talking: I think how people typically use it differently than you're using it.
• 24:08
  I Hate Talking: You're saying everyone has a mental load of something.
• 24:11
  I Hate Talking: Often in culture, it's used basically as mental overload.
• 24:17
  I Hate Talking: It's saying that my brain is, has a running tally of more things than your brain does.
• 24:26
  I Hate Talking: So perhaps that's true.
• 24:30
  I Hate Talking: But if your brain can handle that, does it really matter that one versus another has a different Load because there may be some people to use a very generic example, right?
• 24:45
  I Hate Talking: There may be some people that can carry 40 pounds of groceries and there might be somebody that carries 30 pounds of groceries, and if they both have to take 20 pounds of groceries from the delivery truck to the door, then neither one of them are overloaded, even though there may be one closer to their capacity than the other.
• 25:05
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, that would be ideal, but I think often we are overloaded.
• 25:11
  I Hate Talking: I feel like I'm overloaded.
• 25:13
  I Hate Talking: So then therefore in that example, there's somebody that has to carry 35 pounds of groceries and one person is not overloaded and the other person is overloaded, or is it in the fact that perhaps the 40 person.
• 25:31
  I Hate Talking: Only carries the 20 pounds and the 30 pound person has to carry 90 pounds.
• 25:36
  I Hate Talking: It could be, and that would be really hard and sad, and it definitely happens.
• 25:41
  I Hate Talking: I think about like, um, personally for us, we've had a really weird couple of weeks.
• 25:48
  I Hate Talking: It is not normal.
• 25:49
  I Hate Talking: We've had exceptionally busy or different schedules than normal.
• 25:55
  I Hate Talking: And so I feel like you keep talking about like doing this.
• 25:58
  I Hate Talking: And I've had to tell you several times, I am focusing on this right here.
• 26:02
  I Hate Talking: This is my priority.
• 26:05
  I Hate Talking: And then we get through that, and then we can move on to the next thing.
• 26:09
  I Hate Talking: It's not because I'm trying to discount the future things you're talking about, but I cannot process all that.
• 26:17
  I Hate Talking: Like, I have so much going on.
• 26:19
  I Hate Talking: And these things are so big.
• 26:21
  I Hate Talking: I mean, they're big items that have come up.
• 26:24
  I Hate Talking: Um, so I want to do them well.
• 26:27
  I Hate Talking: And so I've had to say, like, this is the priority number one.
• 26:31
  I Hate Talking: Now that's over, now we can do priority number 2.
• 26:34
  I Hate Talking: Otherwise, in the past when I wouldn't make that hard, I'm only thinking about this right here, stance, and I would try to do all of it, I would get so overwhelmed and stressed, and it wasn't good for anybody.
• 26:47
  I Hate Talking: So perhaps that is getting into one strategy that one could utilize is to focus on the either near term and or high priority things that need to be accomplished and set to the side those things that are either lower priority or are further in the future and don't need to be discussed and determined at this precise moment.
• 27:13
  I Hate Talking: So, on top of what you just said, I think some strategies.
• 27:16
  I Hate Talking: are obviously writing it down.
• 27:19
  I Hate Talking: Um If it's written on paper, it can take off that brain work, like open up some space in your brain, if that makes sense for um other things.
• 27:34
  I Hate Talking: So, making a to do list, writing it down, and also asking for help.
• 27:39
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I love, you know, cooking and I love all that.
• 27:45
  I Hate Talking: But either asking you, hey, on your way home, stop and get milk, please, or are you taking the initiative of looking in the fridge, and being like, oh, the milk is almost slow.
• 27:56
  I Hate Talking: Should I go get more?
• 27:58
  I Hate Talking: Both of those would be super helpful, um, strategies to do.
• 28:04
  I Hate Talking: Yep, indeed, and I think that is something that we have on our List that is actually contained within Trello on topics that we will discuss in the future and that is Trello is one of a productivity and software type thing to manage those lists and I could look at our shared grocery list and see that there is maybe something at the store that I could uh relieve you of and be able to pick up or whatever the case may be.
• 28:37
  I Hate Talking: Uh, we also use that I think for packing lists and other things that, uh, again, we'll use that system to record and plan things so that it doesn't have to stay within our mind only.
• 28:54
  I Hate Talking: Right, and I mean, that's super helpful and I'm very grateful for that.
• 28:59
  I Hate Talking: But, you know, a little like devil's advocate about it, like the salt example I gave earlier, how we've been really low on salt lately.
• 29:09
  I Hate Talking: That and I just keep forgetting to put it on Trello.
• 29:12
  I Hate Talking: Even putting an item on Trello is a mental task.
• 29:17
  I Hate Talking: I still have to stop, pull up my phone, pull out Trello, type it in and enter it.
• 29:24
  I Hate Talking: Those are still steps that I have to actually take and think about.
• 29:28
  I Hate Talking: And I'm so thankful that you're like, oh, I saw that she needs salt on Trello, I'm gonna go buy it.
• 29:34
  I Hate Talking: So I definitely want to give you credit for that.
• 29:36
  I Hate Talking: But did you know we were out of salt for the last 2 weeks?
• 29:41
  I Hate Talking: Nope, I have not.
• 29:43
  I Hate Talking: I guess I have not used the salt nor saw that it was low, but I also have been to the store and picked up every single item on the list, and that was not one of them.
• 29:53
  I Hate Talking: But to your point, it wasn't on the list.
• 29:55
  I Hate Talking: Right, because I still couldn't mentally take the time to put it on the list.
• 30:00
  I Hate Talking: Indeed.
• 30:01
  I Hate Talking: So we're coming to the close here, but I think that I will end with one of my favorite quotes on organizational systems.
• 30:10
  I Hate Talking: And this comes from Noah Kagan, who has a number of different uh companies and I think he has his own podcast as well, but he has a whole system of organization.
• 30:22
  I Hate Talking: But one of my favorite quotes from him in regards to that is ruthlessly kill any organization system that doesn't actually help you.
• 30:31
  I Hate Talking: Ruthlessly kill any organization system that doesn't actually help you.
• 30:35
  I Hate Talking: So if there is some sort of organizational system, I said Trello list that maybe worked in the past but is no longer working, that that particular organizational system needs to be ruthlessly killed.
• 30:49
  I Hate Talking: I like that.
• 30:51
  I Hate Talking: I like that it gives you the freedom to change.
• 30:55
  I Hate Talking: When you need a change.
• 30:58
  I Hate Talking: So there you have it.
• 31:00
  I Hate Talking: So from your friends at IHTalking until next time, remember, it's only through talking that we begin the journey to understanding.