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Bengals Booth Podcast: We Can Work It Out · Bengals Booth Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: I get everybody. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading
0:06
Speaker 1: the Bengals Booth Podcast. The we can work it out.
0:10
Speaker 1: We can work it out. Addition, as the Bengals address
0:15
Speaker 1: two key areas of need on Day two of the
0:17
Speaker 1: draft by selecting Clemson offensive lineman Jackson Carmen in round
0:21
Speaker 1: two and Texas edge rusher Joseph Osai in round three.
0:26
Speaker 1: Coming up, I'll talk to former Bengals offensive line coach
0:30
Speaker 1: Paul Alexander, who helped Jackson Carmen prepare for the draft
0:34
Speaker 1: and told the Bengals that he was worthy of being
0:36
Speaker 1: a first round selection. Then I'll discuss Friday's picks with
0:41
Speaker 1: my broadcast partner Dave Lapham and look at some of
0:44
Speaker 1: the players still available, particularly in the fourth round where
0:47
Speaker 1: the Bengals now have three picks. The Bengals Booth Podcast
0:52
Speaker 1: is presented by Bud Light. Seltzer refreshed the game and
0:55
Speaker 1: here's a quick reminder that you can have the latest
0:58
Speaker 1: edition of this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet,
1:01
Speaker 1: or computer by subscribing on iTunes, Stitcher, google Play, Spotify,
1:06
Speaker 1: or pod Bean. It's the greatest thing since fan interest
1:11
Speaker 1: in the NFL Draft. TV coverage of Round one was
1:15
Speaker 1: seen by an average audience of twelve point six million
1:20
Speaker 1: viewers that matched the rating for the most watch game
1:24
Speaker 1: of last year's World Series. Let's face it, it's an
1:28
Speaker 1: NFL world and we're just living in it. The Bengals
1:32
Speaker 1: began Friday night with a sixth pick in round two,
1:35
Speaker 1: but traded it to New England, dropping back eight spots
1:39
Speaker 1: and picking up two additional fourth round draft picks, so
1:42
Speaker 1: instead of picking thirty eighth overall, they chose forty sixth,
1:46
Speaker 1: and that meant some anxious moments for Bengals fans every
1:50
Speaker 1: time an offensive lineman was selected. Tevin Jenkins went thirty ninth,
1:55
Speaker 1: Leah Eichenberg went forty second, and Walker Little went forty fifth,
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Speaker 1: one spot before Cincinnati picked. Still, there were some good
2:03
Speaker 1: options left, like Samuel Cosmei, Dylan Raidens, and the player
2:09
Speaker 1: that Cincinnati ultimately selected, Jackson Carmen, the starting left tackle
2:14
Speaker 1: at Clemson for the last two years, who happens to
2:16
Speaker 1: be from Fairfield High School, where he was one of
2:19
Speaker 1: the nation's top recruits. The twenty one year old is
2:22
Speaker 1: six four, three hundred and seventeen pounds and is expected
2:26
Speaker 1: to compete for a starting guard spot as a rookie.
2:30
Speaker 1: Former Bengals O line coach Paul Alexander helped prepare more
2:33
Speaker 1: than twenty offensive lineman for this year's draft, including Carmen. Oh.
2:39
Speaker 1: How many times did you work with Jackson? Carmen? Oh? Shoot,
2:43
Speaker 1: we wort together ten days, probably starting around mid season
2:48
Speaker 1: this year. They had a bye week at Clemson, and
2:52
Speaker 1: he came home and I know that title, and the
2:57
Speaker 1: coaches over there at Fairfield and so up together, and
3:01
Speaker 1: we work kind of a a few things, and then you know,
3:04
Speaker 1: and then this whole offseason. So I'm o him pretty well.
3:10
Speaker 1: He's terrific. What are his strengths. He's a powerful guy.
3:14
Speaker 1: He can knock guys off the ball better than any
3:16
Speaker 1: alignment in this draft. In my opinion. He can stop
3:21
Speaker 1: the bullrush. But he also has terrific balance and agility
3:26
Speaker 1: to pass block. I saw him as a first round pick.
3:31
Speaker 1: I know that, Oh No, Kyper and friends probably hit
3:34
Speaker 1: him lower, but I guess too bad. I think it
3:40
Speaker 1: was legitimate. I think it's a steel. I don't think
3:41
Speaker 1: it's a reach. I put him in the steel category. Interesting.
3:45
Speaker 1: We're talking to former Bengals online coach Paul Alexander. You
3:48
Speaker 1: did a podcast recently with Dave Lapham and said that
3:51
Speaker 1: there's not a guy in the draft that knows the
3:54
Speaker 1: NFL better than Jackson Carmen. How did that come out
3:58
Speaker 1: in your conversations with him, Well, I've spent a lot
4:01
Speaker 1: of time and we watched film, and we study rushers
4:04
Speaker 1: and we study you know, blockers, and he knows them all.
4:08
Speaker 1: You know, it's unbelievable. He knows what you have to
4:11
Speaker 1: do to this guy and that guy and the other
4:13
Speaker 1: and so he's and that is very important because modeling
4:18
Speaker 1: in anything that you're successful with. Typically, if you model
4:22
Speaker 1: will and that's your goal and you know about it
4:24
Speaker 1: a lot, then you aspire to be great and more
4:28
Speaker 1: than any guy in the draft. Like you said, Dan
4:30
Speaker 1: and I said it to lap Up and I'll confirm
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Speaker 1: it again, more than any guy in the draft. He
4:35
Speaker 1: knows the league in terms of playing offensive line right
4:39
Speaker 1: now better than anybody. So Jonah Williams is the left tackle.
4:43
Speaker 1: They signed Riley Reef to play right tackle. It sounds
4:46
Speaker 1: like they're going to give Jackson the opportunity to compete
4:49
Speaker 1: for a starting spot at guard, even though he has
4:52
Speaker 1: not played guard in a game. Before. How challenging will
4:55
Speaker 1: that be? Oh, they'll pick up on it. He's a
4:57
Speaker 1: natural football player. He'll learn it, and he has a
5:02
Speaker 1: chance to really be a dominant guard. But he can
5:06
Speaker 1: certainly play tackle too. It's a heck of the thing
5:09
Speaker 1: that when when you got a guy sitting on your roster,
5:12
Speaker 1: that if something happens to Jonah or Riley, that the
5:15
Speaker 1: bowling and go out there and play tackle and not
5:19
Speaker 1: skip a beat. His tackle to guard a relatively easy
5:23
Speaker 1: thing to do. It depends on the guy. I think
5:27
Speaker 1: it depends on your physical structure. His structure is such
5:30
Speaker 1: that he's so powerful and has a good center of
5:33
Speaker 1: mass and which is good at guard, that I think
5:38
Speaker 1: the transition will be seamless. He's a smart guy and
5:42
Speaker 1: he has all the traits to be able to play boats.
5:44
Speaker 1: So some guys can't do it well, it's because they're
5:47
Speaker 1: built like tackles. Well, this kid's built like a guard,
5:51
Speaker 1: built like a tackle, all right. He's kind of that
5:54
Speaker 1: guy that's not too high cut or not too short.
5:57
Speaker 1: He's kind of like great in the sweet spot of
5:59
Speaker 1: which you're looking for in an athlete. He does not
6:02
Speaker 1: have particularly long arms. I think I saw thirty two
6:05
Speaker 1: and a half inches. Does that make guard his most
6:08
Speaker 1: likely spot? Or that's a wrong measurement, Dad, greg you
6:13
Speaker 1: brought that up when he was at Clemson for the
6:16
Speaker 1: Clemson workout, they measured him at thirty two and a
6:19
Speaker 1: half and I got I almost freaked out because I
6:22
Speaker 1: measured him at thirty three and a quarter, right, And
6:25
Speaker 1: which is you need thirty three for a tackle? Well,
6:27
Speaker 1: he had a pro Day on the fifteenth of April
6:31
Speaker 1: and they measured him and they measured him at thirty
6:33
Speaker 1: three and a quarter, So they had thirty two and
6:35
Speaker 1: a half that was floating around. Was a wrong measurement
6:38
Speaker 1: and I've got, obviously my measurement, and then a second
6:42
Speaker 1: measurement to confirm the same thing happened with Joe Thomas.
6:45
Speaker 1: If you remember Joe Thomas and everyone's like, oh, my
6:48
Speaker 1: guy can't play. Taco's arms were too short. You know,
6:50
Speaker 1: they measured him his junior year and they mismeasured him,
6:53
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden he went to the
6:54
Speaker 1: combine and they said, oh, because arms very long enough,
6:57
Speaker 1: you can play tackle. Yeah, no, kid, that's really interesting.
7:01
Speaker 1: So in his media conference with the Cincinnati Reporters, he
7:06
Speaker 1: spoke reverently about Willie Anderson. Apparently he and Willy have
7:11
Speaker 1: worked together. Will He's give them a lot of advice
7:13
Speaker 1: and guidance. And obviously you have a very close relationship
7:16
Speaker 1: with Willie Anderson. Do you see some connections there? I do.
7:21
Speaker 1: The two of them have some similar physical traits. You know,
7:24
Speaker 1: they both have good, strong lower bodies. You know, they
7:28
Speaker 1: are powerful people. And then Willie, well, Willie does a
7:33
Speaker 1: lot of work with high school kids and college kids.
7:35
Speaker 1: And you know, Jackson was coming out of high school.
7:39
Speaker 1: He was a top recruiting the country as an offensive life.
7:42
Speaker 1: He's five star. And you know Willie from the different
7:46
Speaker 1: camps and so forth and recruiting camps. I don't know
7:49
Speaker 1: what they call them now. They used to be under
7:51
Speaker 1: our camps, right or nineteen they have those who but
7:54
Speaker 1: Willie worked those and ness where you got to meet Jackson,
7:57
Speaker 1: and over time they've kept their relationship. And Uh, it's
8:02
Speaker 1: really good because really is able to really is great wisdom.
8:07
Speaker 1: You know, not only was really a great player, but
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Speaker 1: really gets it and uh and he's a special, special
8:14
Speaker 1: man and that's uh, he was able to impart some
8:18
Speaker 1: of that with Jackson. And I know really recommended him
8:21
Speaker 1: to the Bengals highly, you know, and uh, I know
8:24
Speaker 1: he had talked to do Covin and gave his recommendation,
8:28
Speaker 1: and uh so they're kind of it kind of speaks
8:31
Speaker 1: for it. I think I talked to Mike Brown and
8:33
Speaker 1: I recommended him. It was when I talked to Mike,
8:36
Speaker 1: it was that's the guy he wanted to know about
8:39
Speaker 1: practically more than anybody. So the Bengals fad their eye
8:43
Speaker 1: on him for quite a while, and so I was answered,
8:48
Speaker 1: I kind of figured they were going to pick him. Interesting,
8:52
Speaker 1: So when they traded back from thirty eight to forty six,
8:56
Speaker 1: did you have it in the back of your head
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Speaker 1: that maybe the NFL was and as high on him
9:00
Speaker 1: as the Bengals were, and that that was really the
9:03
Speaker 1: guy they were targeting. I called Jackson and I told
9:07
Speaker 1: him exactly that last thing for Paul Alexander. In addition
9:11
Speaker 1: to your expertise when it comes to offensive line play,
9:15
Speaker 1: you study performers in all walks of life and what
9:19
Speaker 1: it takes to excel. Does he have any traits or
9:23
Speaker 1: characteristics that you think will allow him to, you know,
9:28
Speaker 1: exceed under the white hot spotlight of competing in the
9:30
Speaker 1: National Football League. He does. You know the thing I
9:33
Speaker 1: mentioned that he knows the league? All right, so that's great.
9:37
Speaker 1: He's ultra competitive, all right. I was down. I was
9:43
Speaker 1: down working with him and working with a guy who's
9:46
Speaker 1: plays an NFL left tackle, highly regarded NFL left tack
9:51
Speaker 1: where we're doing some work about a month ago, and jactually,
9:56
Speaker 1: I guess he's trying to make the guy look really bad.
9:59
Speaker 1: You know. Really, he's ultra competitive. You know, he's like,
10:04
Speaker 1: this guy is a good game guy, but I'm better
10:06
Speaker 1: than him. So he is a very high opinion of himself,
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Speaker 1: and not in a naive way, in a way that
10:13
Speaker 1: I think will help propel him to be great. Paul,
10:18
Speaker 1: I always appreciate the opportunity to pick your brain. Thanks
10:20
Speaker 1: for the information about Jackson. The Bengals Booth podcast is
10:24
Speaker 1: presented by Bud Light Seltzer. It's light and refreshing with
10:28
Speaker 1: a hint of fruit flavor. After going O line in
10:31
Speaker 1: round two, the Bengals went D line in round three
10:34
Speaker 1: with a selection of edge rusher Joseph Osai from Texas.
10:38
Speaker 1: He had sixteen tackles for loss, five sacks, and forced
10:43
Speaker 1: three fumbles in only nine games last season. Now time
10:47
Speaker 1: to recap Day two and look ahead to Day three
10:50
Speaker 1: with my broadcast partner Dave Lapham. I had the thirty
10:54
Speaker 1: eighth pick. They elected to make a deal with the
10:56
Speaker 1: New England Patriots, dropping back to forty six. They picked
11:00
Speaker 1: up two fourth round picks for trading down. They wind
11:04
Speaker 1: up with the seventeenth pick in the fourth round that
11:07
Speaker 1: originally belonged to Arizona. They also get the thirty fourth
11:10
Speaker 1: pick in the fourth round. That's a compensatory pick. If
11:14
Speaker 1: you look at the old trade value chart, the thirty
11:17
Speaker 1: eighth pick in the draft is worth five hundred twenty points.
11:21
Speaker 1: If you add up the three picks that the Bengals
11:23
Speaker 1: got an exchange, it's five hundred and twenty six point five.
11:26
Speaker 1: So it's basically an even swap in terms of points.
11:29
Speaker 1: But the Bengals wind up with a couple of extra
11:31
Speaker 1: fourth rounders. Yeah, and I think when you look at it, Dan,
11:35
Speaker 1: that's kind of the the sweet spot of the draft.
11:39
Speaker 1: You know where people are thinking, particularly you know, some
11:42
Speaker 1: offensive lineman. There's enough depth there on the offensive line
11:46
Speaker 1: where you can do some damage, you know, in the
11:48
Speaker 1: in the fourth round, those middle rounds and even into
11:51
Speaker 1: the fifth round. You know, people are still feeling pretty
11:54
Speaker 1: good about offensive lineman and and I think the Bengals
11:57
Speaker 1: that it was a good, good decision. I think it
12:01
Speaker 1: was a smart move on their part. They felt good
12:03
Speaker 1: about who they picked, and they got an extra, you know,
12:06
Speaker 1: a couple of fourth round picks, and so doing you know,
12:09
Speaker 1: you get one hundred and twenty second pick, one hundred
12:11
Speaker 1: and thirty ninth pick of the draft. That's pretty strong.
12:14
Speaker 1: It's pretty strong. So let's go back to the third
12:17
Speaker 1: round or to the second round rather and pick number
12:20
Speaker 1: thirty eight. Because when we did our podcast after round one,
12:23
Speaker 1: we talked about some of the offensive linemen that were
12:25
Speaker 1: still available, and the number one guy on the list
12:28
Speaker 1: was Tevin Jenkins. As it turned out, he was still
12:31
Speaker 1: there at number thirty eight. The only offensive lineman that
12:34
Speaker 1: could picked before that in the second round was Landon Dickerson,
12:39
Speaker 1: who went thirty seventh to the Eagles. So had the
12:42
Speaker 1: Bengals stayed at thirty eight, they could have had Tevin Jenkins,
12:46
Speaker 1: they could have had Liam Eichenberg, they could have had
12:50
Speaker 1: Walker Little. Those guys were taken between thirty eight and
12:54
Speaker 1: when they did eventually get to pick at number forty six, yeah.
12:58
Speaker 1: I think they had had an idea that there was
13:01
Speaker 1: going to be a run there of those guys and
13:03
Speaker 1: it and it panned out that way. But they had
13:06
Speaker 1: their guy identified, and of course the great mel Kiper,
13:10
Speaker 1: who hasn't played a snap of football, said that, oh,
13:12
Speaker 1: that's ridiculous. Jackson Carmen, I had, you know, third fourth round, uh,
13:17
Speaker 1: you know and the third round, fourth round. Um, so whatever,
13:21
Speaker 1: I mean, there's gonna All I can say is that
13:24
Speaker 1: there are a lot of NFL teams that when I
13:27
Speaker 1: was talking to him and I said, what do you
13:28
Speaker 1: guys think of Jackson Carmen? Do you think he'll be
13:30
Speaker 1: there at thirty eight? I don't know. I don't know
13:33
Speaker 1: if he'll be there at thirty eight. He might, you
13:35
Speaker 1: can cross your fingers and hope, hope and pray. So
13:38
Speaker 1: there's a big disparity of you know, where you have
13:40
Speaker 1: guys slotted and evaluated, as always, particularly between the draft
13:45
Speaker 1: gurus you know, and the coaches and the and the
13:48
Speaker 1: scouts and the people that you know are actually gonna
13:52
Speaker 1: make the pick and then coach the players. So um,
13:55
Speaker 1: there's always always some big differences in the way people
13:58
Speaker 1: look at players. And how about Jackson Carmen, though, Dame
14:02
Speaker 1: you talked about coming full circle playing up at Fairfield,
14:05
Speaker 1: Ohio five star recruit, finalists for the Anthony Munio's Award
14:09
Speaker 1: as the best lineman in the area. You know, highly
14:12
Speaker 1: acclaimed offensive lineman, basically one of the top two recruits
14:18
Speaker 1: in the state of Ohio. Basically everybody thought he was
14:21
Speaker 1: going to go to Ohio State, and he duped everybody
14:24
Speaker 1: and went to went to Clemson. And now he's gonna
14:27
Speaker 1: come full circle after starting such in a spectacular fashion
14:32
Speaker 1: of Fairfield and going down to Clemson and proving himself
14:36
Speaker 1: worthy at the in the offensive line and getting drafted
14:39
Speaker 1: by the hometown team and coming back home to play
14:42
Speaker 1: a professional career. That's a that's a pretty good story.
14:45
Speaker 1: That's a that's something that you have to see it
14:49
Speaker 1: to believe it. I guess two people that Mike Brown
14:53
Speaker 1: really respects when it comes to offensive line play sang
14:57
Speaker 1: Jackson Carmen's praises, Willie Anderson and Paul Alexander, who is
15:02
Speaker 1: a member of the coaching staff for a long time.
15:04
Speaker 1: When those two guys tell the Bengals that they think
15:07
Speaker 1: that Jackson Carmen is going to be an excellent NFL
15:10
Speaker 1: offensive lineman. The Bengals are listening, There's no doubt about it.
15:14
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, I think that they both they
15:17
Speaker 1: both understand the athleticism that the big guy has. I mean,
15:22
Speaker 1: he is light on his feet, he can get up
15:24
Speaker 1: on his toes when he needs too, He's got tremendous balance,
15:28
Speaker 1: He's extremely athletic, and he's got he's got a tremendous
15:33
Speaker 1: skill set. And both, obviously Willie and Paul Alexander teach
15:38
Speaker 1: the same sort of techniques and they have the same
15:41
Speaker 1: evaluation of them. And they were very, very high on
15:44
Speaker 1: him and feel like he's going to be able to
15:46
Speaker 1: play well for a very long time in the National
15:49
Speaker 1: Football League. Initially sounds like he's going to be inside
15:53
Speaker 1: at the guard position, but doesn't mean that he wouldn't
15:56
Speaker 1: necessarily slide out and see how he could play at
15:58
Speaker 1: the tackle. Spody played left tackle down there at Clemson
16:01
Speaker 1: and played it well. I think that watching a little
16:06
Speaker 1: bit of their their tape that was interesting though. We
16:08
Speaker 1: had their offensive line pickup stunts and tried to man
16:11
Speaker 1: block everything and kind of put him behind the eight
16:15
Speaker 1: ball in a few type in a few instances that
16:18
Speaker 1: it wasn't due to his lack of proficiency physically and athletically.
16:23
Speaker 1: It was just a, I think, a tough thing to
16:26
Speaker 1: try to execute. But I think he's he's a really
16:29
Speaker 1: really good football player. And two guys that I have
16:31
Speaker 1: a lot of trust in their evaluation as well, and
16:36
Speaker 1: people that they know around the league and people they
16:38
Speaker 1: talked to, the Sims boys filling Chris Simms, both had
16:42
Speaker 1: very strong opinions that he was going to be a
16:45
Speaker 1: high pick, and everybody's right. It turned out that he
16:50
Speaker 1: was a higher pick than people some people may have thought,
16:52
Speaker 1: like mel Kiper. So he is expected to compete for
16:56
Speaker 1: a starting spot at guard. You asked him the question
17:00
Speaker 1: you ever played guard before? He said, no, I've practiced
17:03
Speaker 1: it guard, I've never played it in a game. You
17:05
Speaker 1: can speak to this because you played all five positions
17:08
Speaker 1: in a game at the NFL level. How difficult is
17:11
Speaker 1: that transition going to be at the highest level of football. Yeah,
17:15
Speaker 1: it's it's interesting. Um. The biggest the biggest difference is
17:19
Speaker 1: when you go from the from the outside inside, things
17:24
Speaker 1: are faster. Things happen in a much faster, faster pace. Uh,
17:28
Speaker 1: there's there's you have to make quicker decisions. Your your
17:32
Speaker 1: brain has to process things a little bit quicker. You'll
17:35
Speaker 1: have twists inside with linebackers and down linemen that you
17:39
Speaker 1: don't necessarily experience on the outside when you're past protecting
17:43
Speaker 1: against the defense. Ven usually it's you got the defensive end.
17:46
Speaker 1: You have the defensive end almost every single repetition. So
17:49
Speaker 1: it's it's it's a little bit uh, a little bit
17:52
Speaker 1: like being on the Autobahn in terms of speed on
17:55
Speaker 1: that interior. So it's more of a mental adjustment, I
17:58
Speaker 1: think than a physical adjustment. I don't think he'll have
18:00
Speaker 1: any any real big physical adjustment at all. I mean,
18:03
Speaker 1: he's a he's a specimen, and he does have great
18:07
Speaker 1: athletic ability, but it's just a mental part of it.
18:11
Speaker 1: And and I think that's what they like too. I
18:13
Speaker 1: like his football acumen. They think he's got you know,
18:16
Speaker 1: intelligence overall raw intelligence and football intelligence as well. They're
18:20
Speaker 1: they're pretty high on him, and um, I think he
18:22
Speaker 1: I think he got some pretty good grades when the
18:25
Speaker 1: when the Bengals, uh, you know, I evaluated that tape
18:28
Speaker 1: that that he put put on put on celluloid there
18:33
Speaker 1: for everybody to take a look at. When he was
18:35
Speaker 1: down there at Clemson, Jackson Carman played well surgery for
18:38
Speaker 1: a herniated disc in January. How big of a red
18:42
Speaker 1: flag is that? Yeah, I guess, I guess you were
18:45
Speaker 1: recovered pretty darn well pretty quickly. Um, there doesn't seem
18:50
Speaker 1: to be any issue with it, but you know, obviously
18:53
Speaker 1: it's something that you know you're gonna have to monitor,
18:56
Speaker 1: and it might have scared some people away. It's possible,
19:00
Speaker 1: but it doesn't sound like it was a major procedure.
19:03
Speaker 1: So I think that he passed past the physical that
19:07
Speaker 1: the league provided, and also my understanding as he passed
19:11
Speaker 1: the physical that the Bengals doctors took a look at
19:14
Speaker 1: him all right. When we looked ahead prior to day
19:17
Speaker 1: two of the draft, we said, ideally the Bengals would
19:20
Speaker 1: take an offensive lineman in round two and a pass
19:23
Speaker 1: rusher an edge rusher in round three. That's exactly the
19:26
Speaker 1: way it played out. With a fifth pick in the
19:29
Speaker 1: third round, number sixty nine overall, they selected Joseph Osai
19:33
Speaker 1: of Nigerian descent, an edge rusher from Texas. An athletic freak,
19:39
Speaker 1: he is sixty three, two hundred and fifty six pounds,
19:42
Speaker 1: ran a four six two forty broad jumped nearly eleven
19:46
Speaker 1: feet at two hundred and fifty six pounds, known for
19:50
Speaker 1: having a maniacal motor, and this is a good value pick.
19:54
Speaker 1: He was number forty two on the Athletics consensus board.
19:58
Speaker 1: Dane Brugler had him at number forty. Even the Bengals
20:01
Speaker 1: get him at number sixty nine. Yeah, I think they
20:03
Speaker 1: got excellent value there. He's explosive, he's got length, he's
20:07
Speaker 1: got position versatility. You know, with that athleticism, he can
20:11
Speaker 1: drop into space, he can do things at the linebacker position.
20:14
Speaker 1: But I think what the Bengals want to do is
20:17
Speaker 1: bring pressure off that edge. To me, what they've lost
20:22
Speaker 1: in Carl Lawson with that first step quickness and that
20:25
Speaker 1: explosion they got with this guy. I think this is
20:28
Speaker 1: a tremendous replacement for Carl Lawson. Of what I can
20:32
Speaker 1: gather from looking at the numbers, I think he might
20:35
Speaker 1: have had the fastest ten yards split of any edge rusher.
20:41
Speaker 1: So this guy now has an unbelievable first step, he
20:43
Speaker 1: has that short space quickness. The one thing about him, though,
20:47
Speaker 1: is is you know when you when I watch him,
20:51
Speaker 1: it's like I think that he needs to be coached
20:54
Speaker 1: a little bit on his overall pass rush game plan.
20:58
Speaker 1: You know, I don't think I don't think he's got
21:00
Speaker 1: multiple moves. I think he just tries to beat people
21:04
Speaker 1: with the with that sheer physical you know, ability and talent.
21:08
Speaker 1: And I think he's got an upside that once he
21:11
Speaker 1: starts to learn some counter moves. And you know, as
21:15
Speaker 1: as explosive and twitchy as he is, his hips look
21:20
Speaker 1: a little stiff, you know. And and his ability to
21:22
Speaker 1: redirect is uh is not you know, like crazy crazy,
21:29
Speaker 1: but he's he's a he's a heck of a player.
21:31
Speaker 1: And the thing about him is, like you talked about,
21:35
Speaker 1: he finishes. He finished his plays because he's, you know,
21:39
Speaker 1: a high character guy with a high motor. And you
21:41
Speaker 1: put those two things together, he refuses to lose, you know,
21:45
Speaker 1: and and he's gonna he jumps off the tape when
21:48
Speaker 1: you watch him. Um, and he's he's an effort guy
21:51
Speaker 1: in every sense of the word. You know, we we uh,
21:54
Speaker 1: we marvel at uh Sam Hubbard. You know, he empties
21:58
Speaker 1: that effort bucket every single snap. I think when you
22:01
Speaker 1: have these two guys on the edge, Osi and Hubbard,
22:04
Speaker 1: I mean you're gonna have guys that are just getting
22:06
Speaker 1: after coming up the football field and getting after people
22:10
Speaker 1: and relentless in their effort, doggedly determined to finish place.
22:15
Speaker 1: There's no doubt about it. Trey Hendrickson known for the
22:17
Speaker 1: same thing. So that gives you three defensive ends who
22:20
Speaker 1: are known for that type of effort, no question about it.
22:24
Speaker 1: And uh, you know that's that's a that's a good
22:27
Speaker 1: little trio. And you have to figure that the three
22:30
Speaker 1: of them, they'll they'll be they'll be spitting splitting snaps.
22:34
Speaker 1: You know. It's like you have to look at uh,
22:37
Speaker 1: look at it. You have to have at least three
22:39
Speaker 1: edge guys in the national football There's no question about it.
22:43
Speaker 1: So this is a welcome edition. So Jamar Chase brings
22:48
Speaker 1: a lot of swagger, a lot of pizzazz, almost Chad
22:53
Speaker 1: Johnson with a little less look at me, but the
22:57
Speaker 1: same confidence level. And now these two guys, based on
23:00
Speaker 1: our conversations with them after they were selected, are ear
23:04
Speaker 1: to ear grin kind of guys just you know, thrilled
23:07
Speaker 1: to be selected by Cincinnati, can't wait to get to work,
23:11
Speaker 1: just oozing with enthusiasm and charisma. Those are the kinds
23:15
Speaker 1: of guys you like to bring into the building. I
23:17
Speaker 1: agree with you, Dan, I think that that both of
23:20
Speaker 1: them have a have a pleasing swagger. You know. It's
23:24
Speaker 1: like I think they're they're they both know they're good
23:27
Speaker 1: and and they're proud of it. But I don't think
23:31
Speaker 1: it's like to me, there's a there's a difference between
23:34
Speaker 1: cockiness and confidence, you know. And uh, I think they
23:39
Speaker 1: I think they realize that that they're gifted, and there's
23:42
Speaker 1: no doubt about it. But I think they keep it
23:45
Speaker 1: in enough perspective. And there's nothing wrong with feeling like
23:48
Speaker 1: you can get a job done, and you can get
23:50
Speaker 1: job done better than almost anybody. There's nothing wrong with that.
23:54
Speaker 1: Um My mother used to tell me, you know, you
23:56
Speaker 1: don't don't think you can't do anything. You can do
23:59
Speaker 1: anything you want to do. You just don't have to
24:01
Speaker 1: tell everybody about it all the time. All right, Let's
24:05
Speaker 1: look ahead to Day three, the third and final day
24:08
Speaker 1: of the draft, and the Bengals are going to be busy.
24:09
Speaker 1: They have seven picks on Day three, three in the
24:12
Speaker 1: fourth round, beginning with a sixth pick, just their own
24:15
Speaker 1: pick in the fifth round, number five in that round,
24:17
Speaker 1: two picks in the sixth round, their own and then
24:20
Speaker 1: the eighteenth pick, and then finally the seventh pick in
24:23
Speaker 1: the seventh round. With about twenty picks to go in
24:27
Speaker 1: the third, I had a big list of guys that
24:29
Speaker 1: were still available, and I'm thinking to myself, this is unbelievable.
24:33
Speaker 1: There's so many great players still on the board. And
24:35
Speaker 1: then then the run began. So guards started going rapidly.
24:41
Speaker 1: Why had Davis, Kendrick Greene, Ben Cleveland, Robert Hainsey. Then
24:46
Speaker 1: there was a run on cornerbacks Elijah Molden, Ifiah two, Melon,
24:50
Speaker 1: Fon wu Ambree, Thomas, Brandon Stevens. So if you were
24:55
Speaker 1: looking for a guard or for a cornerback, sure there's
24:58
Speaker 1: still plenty left. But some of the guys that I
25:01
Speaker 1: really was excited about I just got scratched off the
25:05
Speaker 1: list late in the third round. Yeah. And during the
25:08
Speaker 1: course of that third round, in the late Quinn Miners, uh,
25:12
Speaker 1: the kid from Wisconsin, Whitewater. I was intrigued by that kid.
25:15
Speaker 1: He went very late to buff the Buffalo Bills. No,
25:19
Speaker 1: Spencer Brown went to the Buffalo Bills. I can't remember
25:21
Speaker 1: who Miners went to, but he went to the Broncos. Yeah,
25:25
Speaker 1: the Broncos. That's what it was the Spencer Brown went
25:28
Speaker 1: to went to Buffalo. Um. Yeah, so it was it
25:32
Speaker 1: was unfortunate that some of these guys started, uh started
25:35
Speaker 1: falling by the wayside. But I still think there's to me,
25:38
Speaker 1: there's some intrigue with a couple of local guys you're
25:41
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, uh, somebody that played at Fairfield
25:45
Speaker 1: High School that you that you you draft in the
25:49
Speaker 1: second round, Jackson Carmen. What would be wrong with just
25:52
Speaker 1: going down the road to you see and taking a
25:55
Speaker 1: look at James Hudson. You know, maybe uh, maybe with
25:59
Speaker 1: one of those fourth round picks, or you know, go up,
26:02
Speaker 1: go up the road a little bit to miamb of
26:05
Speaker 1: Ohio in Oxford and Tommy Doyle uh and a tackle
26:09
Speaker 1: that uh that that is still on the board. Dante
26:12
Speaker 1: Smith from East Carolina is uh is still out there
26:17
Speaker 1: round from Alabama depending on what he had in Uh,
26:22
Speaker 1: he's probably a little depressed if he if he what
26:25
Speaker 1: he ate tonight, he might be three hundred and fifty
26:27
Speaker 1: plus pounds tomorrow morning. But that's his problem. He's got
26:30
Speaker 1: to control that weight. But I wonder, you know, he's
26:33
Speaker 1: he's he's on the board that his his movements leaves
26:37
Speaker 1: a lot to be desired, There's no question about that, Dan.
26:40
Speaker 1: But yeah, there are some there's some interesting guys. There's
26:43
Speaker 1: a road breader from Grambling and this guy's like, you know,
26:46
Speaker 1: not fourth round, but he might be later if they
26:49
Speaker 1: want to take another fly David Moore from Grambling. Yeah,
26:56
Speaker 1: and he's less than six two, but man, he is
26:59
Speaker 1: h he's a you know, and you know, on the edge.
27:02
Speaker 1: There's a still a couple of options out there. Weaver
27:06
Speaker 1: from Pittsburgh still out there, Cameron Sample from two Lane's
27:10
Speaker 1: still out there. So I think that they can still
27:14
Speaker 1: go with the best available player on their board. But
27:18
Speaker 1: there's still pretty good players out there where they could
27:22
Speaker 1: still address the position and need you know, defensively the
27:25
Speaker 1: defensive tackle, defensive end, maybe cornerback, you know, offensively, if
27:30
Speaker 1: they could still address the offensive line, the interior or
27:33
Speaker 1: the offensive line or tackle. If one of these guys,
27:36
Speaker 1: you know, makes it, makes it to where they are
27:38
Speaker 1: in the fourth round that we talked about, I think
27:40
Speaker 1: they still have some options. I mean there's cornerbacks out there.
27:43
Speaker 1: Sean Wade's out there from Ohio State, Tray Smith is
27:47
Speaker 1: out there, a guard from Tennessee, Chris Rump outside linebacker
27:53
Speaker 1: from Duke. He's got some value where we're talking about
27:55
Speaker 1: in the draft. There's there's still players out there. Dan.
27:58
Speaker 1: That's why I think it was such a good Dave
28:03
Speaker 1: and Dixon defensive tack from I was a pretty solid player.
28:07
Speaker 1: I think picking up these extra picks that they got,
28:11
Speaker 1: they're gonna be able to, you know, just double down
28:14
Speaker 1: on some position groups and make the football team better overall.
28:18
Speaker 1: I don't see anything wrong with what they did. The
28:22
Speaker 1: Brown from Alabama that you mentioned is Deonte Brown. He
28:25
Speaker 1: was something like three hundred and sixty pounds I think
28:28
Speaker 1: at the Senior Bowl, and then he got down to
28:30
Speaker 1: three forty four. According to Dane Brugler, he was like
28:34
Speaker 1: a second round, third round type grade, but again you
28:37
Speaker 1: wonder if he'll ever be able to control his weight
28:40
Speaker 1: at the NFL level. You mentioned Trey Smith, the guard
28:43
Speaker 1: from Tennessee. He's got a third round grade on the
28:46
Speaker 1: Dane Brugler board, but he's got blood plots in his lungs,
28:49
Speaker 1: which is probably a reason why he is still available.
28:53
Speaker 1: Stone forsythe is still out there, a tackle from Florida.
28:56
Speaker 1: He had a third round grade. You mentioned James Hutter
29:00
Speaker 1: from you see, third round grade according to Dane Brogler.
29:03
Speaker 1: Tommy Doyle from Miami, fourth round grade. So that's appropriate
29:06
Speaker 1: for where the Bengals. So we'll have their three picks
29:08
Speaker 1: in the fourth round. I'll throw a couple of other
29:10
Speaker 1: names out there. Tommy Togi, big defensive lineman from Ohio State.
29:15
Speaker 1: He had a third fourth round type grade from Dane Brugler.
29:19
Speaker 1: He's still out there. And then a guy that I
29:21
Speaker 1: mentioned several podcasts to go running back, Kenneth Gainwell from Memphis,
29:26
Speaker 1: still on the board in between a second and third
29:30
Speaker 1: round grade from Dane Brugler. I saw him a couple
29:33
Speaker 1: of years ago. You see, couldn't stop him either in
29:35
Speaker 1: the passing game or the running game. He opted out
29:38
Speaker 1: last year when he was expected to be the preseason
29:41
Speaker 1: offensive player of the Year in the conference. So if
29:44
Speaker 1: they want to go running back with one of those
29:46
Speaker 1: fourth round picks and Kenneth Gainwell is still on the board,
29:50
Speaker 1: I think that'd be a great selection. Yeah, I mean,
29:53
Speaker 1: I think you might be like a four man's Travis
29:55
Speaker 1: Etn you know, I mean, it's the guy. The guy
29:58
Speaker 1: is the guy who can handle things in both phases
30:02
Speaker 1: running the football as well as catching the football and
30:05
Speaker 1: helping the quarterback. Just a note that was interesting. Dan,
30:11
Speaker 1: Trevor Lawrence, and Travis Etan played obviously together at Clemson,
30:15
Speaker 1: and Etan is like, he's going to be not just
30:18
Speaker 1: a running back. I think they're gonna he's gonna be
30:20
Speaker 1: a hybrid type guy. I think he's gonna they'll use
30:23
Speaker 1: him as a receiver as much as they do a
30:25
Speaker 1: running back. But helped the quarterback with a guy that
30:29
Speaker 1: he had established chemistry with in his college days. Joe
30:33
Speaker 1: Burrow and Jamar Chase. Same thing, Ta with Waddle, same
30:38
Speaker 1: thing Hurts when he was at Alabama with Smith the
30:41
Speaker 1: Heisman Trophy winner. Same thing. Four different instances of young
30:46
Speaker 1: quarterbacks being basically handed weapons that they had success with
30:53
Speaker 1: success with at the collegiate level to try to help
30:57
Speaker 1: give a little jump start to their development in the
30:59
Speaker 1: now Football League. I thought that was kind of a
31:01
Speaker 1: little interesting trend that went on during the course of
31:05
Speaker 1: yesterday's action. At the end of the draft, the Bengals
31:08
Speaker 1: are always looking for guys that could potentially contribute on
31:11
Speaker 1: special teams right away. There are two UC Bearcats safeties,
31:14
Speaker 1: James Wiggins and Derek Forrest, that could be excellent special
31:18
Speaker 1: teams players. The Bengals are obviously set at safety, but
31:22
Speaker 1: at the bottom of the roster, those guys could help
31:24
Speaker 1: in special teams. And then I will throw one more
31:27
Speaker 1: name out there as a late pick, because the Bengals
31:31
Speaker 1: always take at least one Ohio State guy, right and
31:34
Speaker 1: if they don't, if they don't take Tommy Togi, then
31:38
Speaker 1: how about Justin Hilliard, the former Saint Xavier High school
31:42
Speaker 1: player captain for the Buckeyes linebacker. I could see him
31:45
Speaker 1: as a sixth or seventh round pick. Yeah, that's a
31:50
Speaker 1: there's a good call right there. That's nothing wrong with
31:53
Speaker 1: Darren Simmons. And I think with all the picks that
31:56
Speaker 1: they've got yes coming up tomorrow, he'll have a definite
32:01
Speaker 1: say on special teams, will have an impact on where
32:05
Speaker 1: they're drafted, and if they're drafted by the Cincinnati Bengals,
32:08
Speaker 1: particularly down the stretch drive there seven seven picks left.
32:13
Speaker 1: That's that's pretty interesting. A very busy Saturday. It's sure
32:17
Speaker 1: he is, there's no doubt about that. I was just
32:20
Speaker 1: looking at how offensive line play. You know, people are like,
32:24
Speaker 1: oh geez, you got a draft guys high. You know
32:26
Speaker 1: you can't pass on a guy in the first round.
32:29
Speaker 1: You can't pass on this guy. You can't pass on
32:31
Speaker 1: that guy. You can't move back and take guys in
32:34
Speaker 1: later rounds. Let's let's just think about the nineteen eighty
32:38
Speaker 1: eight Super Bowl offensive line Anthony Winos. Of course, very
32:41
Speaker 1: high draft pick warranted Hall of Famer eleven consecutive Pro Bowls.
32:48
Speaker 1: But other than that hit. The left guard Bruce Rhymers,
32:52
Speaker 1: eighth rounder, two hundred and fourth pick of the draft,
32:56
Speaker 1: was developed by Jim McNally, the legendary offensive line coach
33:00
Speaker 1: went on to have a ten year career. Center was
33:02
Speaker 1: Bruce Kazerski, ninth round, two hundred and thirty, first pick
33:06
Speaker 1: of his draft out of Holy Cross, went on to
33:09
Speaker 1: enjoy a twelve year career. Right Guard Max Montoya seventh
33:14
Speaker 1: rounder out of UCLA, one hundred and sixty eighth pick
33:16
Speaker 1: of the draft, sixteen year NFL career. Joe Walter seventh
33:21
Speaker 1: round pick out of Texas Tech, one hundred and eighty
33:24
Speaker 1: first pick in the draft, twelve year NFL career. Come on, man,
33:30
Speaker 1: what's wrong with developing, you know, drafting a lot of
33:33
Speaker 1: these guys. The Rhymers Kazerski would not have been drafted.
33:37
Speaker 1: Montoya and Joe Walter would have been drafted in the
33:40
Speaker 1: last round in the seventh round. Jim McNally did a
33:44
Speaker 1: hell of a job of not only drafting and targeting,
33:47
Speaker 1: you know, some traits, but then developing them so you
33:50
Speaker 1: don't have to have first round draft picks across the
33:53
Speaker 1: board of your offensive Line's just take a look at
33:56
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight and reflect back on. Got some guys
34:01
Speaker 1: and they filled some some positions that offensive line very
34:06
Speaker 1: very well, to say the least. That is some good stuff.
34:10
Speaker 1: And I think we will end it on that note.
34:13
Speaker 1: I will have my celebratory beer as I put this
34:16
Speaker 1: together for the second night in a row, and you
34:19
Speaker 1: can catch some sleep. I'm into that already, Dad. I
34:23
Speaker 1: think I think I was half asleep as we did.
34:26
Speaker 1: That sounded that way, I truly apologize. Sounded great as always.
34:31
Speaker 1: Talk to you tomorrow. Thanks, all right, have a great one.
34:34
Speaker 1: Don't wrap up the draft with another edition of this
34:37
Speaker 1: podcast on Saturday. That's going to do it for this
34:40
Speaker 1: episode of the Bengals Booth Podcast, brought to you by
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Speaker 1: Bud Light Seltzer. Refresh the game if you haven't done
34:46
Speaker 1: so already, please subscribe, and if you have a minute,
34:49
Speaker 1: give it a rating or share a comment that helps
34:52
Speaker 1: more Bengals fans find this podcast. I'm Dan Horne and
34:55
Speaker 1: thank you for listening to the Bengals Booth podcast