Latest / TWO GUYS IN TIES / #14 – Behind the Scenes with a CEO

Transcript

#14 – Behind the Scenes with a CEO · TWO GUYS IN TIES

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Listening to two guys in ties.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, we're back.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Big week, man.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: The wedding was was amazing last weekend.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Mitch's sister got married last Saturday, and it was a uh wedding to remember.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Reagan, you were in the wedding.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I was.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Did you have fun?
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: We were all in the wedding.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, we had a lot of fun.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't technically in the wedding.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: I did play a part.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: You played a part.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: You were the sponsor.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I got no sponsorship recognition.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Should have had some McDermottable signs out, you know, a couple of shout-outs.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, no, it was so much fun.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you guys gave great Friday night toasts.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna ask, did you guys practice?
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: I practiced mine.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't practice at all?
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: How much did you practice?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like 15 to 20 times.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Jeez.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Did it make you feel better or worse when you went up there?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: Better.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was still nervous, and it's way different practicing than actually doing it, but it made me feel better.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: So when you were actually in it and you were doing it, but you kind of knew how it was gonna flow because you practiced so many times, did you start getting comfortable?
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: So how long after you started?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um maybe like a couple seconds in.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, isn't that amazing?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Mitch, how about you?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Did you feel nervous at all?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: No, but I felt underprepared.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I wrote your speech the night before.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: I was a little bit last minute.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: So normally I would memorize it and have no paper, nothing in front of me.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I had kind of read off the paper.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of looked at it a few times the night of.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I definitely felt like I would have felt better had I prepared a little bit more.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, interesting.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason I bring this up too is because a job interview is kind of like this, right?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta prepare for it.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: How can you prepare?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Can you practice?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever practiced for a job interview?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't think so.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: But I haven't really interviewed.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely have.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely have.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: You have.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like the drive into an interview, I would role-play in my car.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: The whole drive there of like role-playing answers and how I talk about certain things, uh, questions I ask, how I say it.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, when when Cole was interviewing too, he we wrote down all of his answers because he knew the questions before or some of them at least.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: Did you practice with him?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: We practice a lot with him.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Anything really competitive like what Cole was doing, I think you have to.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think it makes a ton of sense.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you this.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I practiced my toast.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Did you did it look like I practiced it, Mitch?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I mean, you do a good job at making everything feel like you're speaking from the heart.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but because I know you, I figure for that long of a speech, you probably rehearsed some stuff and scripted some of it out.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: I can I tell you this, I scripted all of it out.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the first time that I didn't actually kind of memorize everything.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: I memorized more the components of it.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then I practiced it.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: I practiced it in front of your mom a decent number of times, probably seven or eight times with her over the course of maybe two weeks.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then I just kind of ran it through my head.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm on the elliptical and I'm running it through my head.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I don't like that.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, change that, change that verbiage, you know, different things like that.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so you can get to a point where you're comfortable, but then it flows out of you almost like it's an out-of-body experience, you know?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I get to a point where I'm not nervous at all.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Once I get started, I'm like, all right, let's go.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: A little bit of liquid courage helps.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't suggest you do this for an interview, by the way, but I had a shot of tequila, and that probably didn't hurt.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Did you have any tequila?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Did it hurt?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: Just going down.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: It burns.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, anyway, it was a fun time.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Really, really cool time.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, any news from the field, Mitch?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Any experiences in the last week for you?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let me think about that.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's been actually a big week for us interviewing as a company for candidates for our team.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, actually, I I have some some some good stories from the street, and it's something interesting because last week we had three interviews.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: All of them were a fairly hard no.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and we actually made an offer to the gal who interviewed on Tuesday.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, one of the things that we realized is how the energy someone brings when they show up to our office in person.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think if it's video, it's different.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: But even the way, like when I walk them in and say, hey everyone, this is so-and-so.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do they take the reins?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Do they go out and introduce themselves?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Do they make eye contact?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Do they have a level of confidence to them to go out and actually put their hand out and introduce themselves?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Or do they kind of just sit there silent and kind of look for us to guide that process of meeting people?
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that was interesting.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: This gal came in and just kind of took the reins.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Last week it was kind of awkward, even uncomfortable for me saying, Hey everyone, this is you know, so-and-so.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: And they're kind of just like standing there next to me.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking, you're not gonna introduce yourself or say hi or even just say something.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and this gal on Tuesday came around and walked to everyone, shook their hand, personally met them, made good eye contact.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: This gentleman we interviewed last week's like looking down, not talking to people, looking them in the eye.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think the the body language cues are stuff that people probably think a lot about for an interview, but I think especially if you're going in in person, be aware of what your body language tells the interviewers.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know what's interesting?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Can people be um can they be coached on this?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Can they can they make changes in how they show up like this?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and my guess is probably nerves to some degree.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, I think like most things can be coached.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: So then the question is if it's coached and it's in an interview, is it being authentic?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Are they being their authentic selves?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Or is there a way to change the person?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because I sometimes feel like, you know, if somebody's belief is that they're an introvert and that's how they feel, and they actually expel energy engaging with other folks versus create energy, right?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: How do you change that?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: How do you shift that?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you get them to want to do it?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you don't, they're just gonna do it in the interview, and then when they show up for work, they're gonna be their own selves.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's less about being extroverted.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's more of uh like professional maturity of being someone who takes the reins.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to be social to say, hey, I'm so-and-so, and nice to meet you, and you know, blah, blah, blah.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's less, we're not looking for that.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was more of like confidence almost when they came in of being confident in who they are, uh, being able to like, I don't know, just acclimate with our team and did your inner did the energy attract you guys?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would say the gal, it's funny with the gal we hired was actually definitely more soft spoken than any of the people we interviewed, uh, which is interesting because we're on the phones.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Normally we hire loud and kind of salesy people.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: But she was she was uh uh what's the word I'm looking for?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: She went out and greeted everybody.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe that's a sign of leadership.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: She's a little more calm.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, very cool.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: I will tell you though, it's it's interesting.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: I read a quote last week.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna get it totally right, but something the effect of it's uh the ability of people to relate to other humans that allows them to engage and get hired by them.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's less about their skills and experience.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I'm not saying you don't need to have the skills and experience, but you take two people with similar skills and experience, and one who engages and relates and builds a relationship with folks, and one who doesn't, everybody's gonna choose that person.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think you have to be an extrovert to do that either.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think just building a relationship with people and being curious and asking questions.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I feel like you could you don't have to be this most social person in the room to do that.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think part of it is going into an interview, making sure that you're interviewing them.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a good catch because if you are interviewing them, it creates a two-way conversation.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then they feel like you're taking it really, really seriously.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: You're not just looking for a job offer, you know, you're actually looking for a career that you can sink your teeth into and you're actually doing your due diligence.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's important because people want to know that you're really thinking it through.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I have a question for you.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: I know you got a lot of things, stories from the field, but um another question about how people can overcome some of their fears of meeting new people that they don't know and how they can um, you know, project themselves as their best selves, right?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think it's a big thing.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: I was working with some students at UC Riverside a couple weeks ago.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, Reagan, you were out there with me.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we were talking about this job fair that they're having.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Meet the firms.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: There's a bunch of accounting firms that are coming on campus.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Literally, their accounting um emphasis in their business major is massive.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many people.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: And these lines could be 30 people deep sitting there waiting to talk to somebody from a firm.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: How are you, if you're one of 30 people, going to stand out?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: What are you gonna do?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't really have a great answer.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: What I do know is how you're not gonna stand out by playing small.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: You play small and you don't relate to that person, you're not memorable.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: So how can you be memorable?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: What are the things you could do to actually have somebody walk away and say, I want that person to meet our other folks?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first off, it's accounting.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: So my guess from recruiting, it's gonna be more introverted personalities, naturally, more technical-minded people.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I think going in and actually being your authentic self, building a relationship with that person, getting to know them on a human level.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I again I think a lot of it is interviewing them.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like to be a way to be memorable is asking really, really good questions.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: For me, what stands out in interviews isn't always what they say, it's it's what they ask that stands out to me because they can say anything, but the questions they ask me tell me what they truly value.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's great.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like you should just do your research.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: If there's a company that you're wanting to talk to, look at their LinkedIn, look at their website, and figure out maybe who's gonna be there.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you can always do that, but even just doing your research and saying, Oh, I saw this on your website and blah blah blah.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: That is a great, great addition.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really, really good.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think for so in this one, the Meet the Firms, you definitely can go to the business school people and say, I want to do my research on who's gonna be here.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Who do you know is gonna be here?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: And the school wants you to get hired.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, schools are all about and they're rated and judged based on their rate of students graduating and getting landing professional jobs within six months.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's a metric that they measure themselves.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: I love this topic because it's a way that the the schools have a vested interest in you getting hired.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can reach out to folks, but this requires you to do some homework, right?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: You you got to do a little legwork.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: But and Mitch, I love it.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: You you know who's there, and you say, Listen, I saw that you graduated from blah, blah, blah, and you're at this firm.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Did you grow up in another area?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: How do you like living in this city?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'd have to move to that city.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's firms from Irvine that are interviewing out in Riverside.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: So people that never lived in Orange County would have to think about moving to Orange County.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: You can ask them some personal questions.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Or even ask how they like it.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: How long have you been with the company?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: What is your favorite thing about the business?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: What about other things?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: What about things I oh go ahead, Reagan.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: No, you can finish your sentence.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: What about things I could bring to that quick interview?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's a quick hit, right?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna be three or four.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: I would say though, like you shouldn't be super salesy with who you are.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think building a relationship matters most at these fairs or career fairs.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let me ask this question.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna I'm my mind is cranking right now.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a student, I've got 30 resumes, there's 30 firms out.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if there's 30, but let's say there's 30 firms.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: I've got them in an envelope, and the envelope is addressed to that actual person from that firm.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: So if I'm meeting Joe from uh, you know, Price Waterhouse Coopers, and I know Joe's last name.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: I write Joe and their last name, PWC, and I put my resume in there and I hand it to them.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: What do you guys think?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's different than me just handing them a resume, right?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: I actually did my homework.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: What about putting a note in there?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Joe, I wrote this note before our interview today.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: I've really been looking forward to talking with you because I'm excited about what PWC is doing in this area, and I hope that we have an opportunity to talk again after tonight.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you again for taking your time to come out here to Riverside and meet with a bunch of students, and I hope I'm one that you pick pick up the phone and call or something like that.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I could work.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think Is that gonna hurt you?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, it definitely doesn't hurt you.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I almost look at it as like information gathering for like, hey, if I'm interested in in applying and working here, like who do I reach out to?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Who's in charge of that process?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Would it be would I be interviewing with you?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Would it be someone else?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: What's their name?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I would actually use the conversation with Joe to reach out to the person in HR or the hiring manager and go on LinkedIn and say, hey, I met Joe at the ECR, they had a booth.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he he shared a lot about the company.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: I like his tenure career.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Love to, you know, have a have a brief conversation with you and see if this could be a line.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: So circumvent the process.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: You got that person's name from Joe.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: You're actually reaching out to that person.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Joe spoke highly of you and said you're involved in the student recruiting.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, Reagan, um, Mitch, you know this too, and Reagan, obviously, you're involved.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: We support some students at UC Riverside through the HANA Scholars program.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: I know a number of them want to be accountants, and I know they're gonna go to some of these some of the meet the firm stuff.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: I know of a few at least for sure.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, why don't we try this with them?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's a good idea.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think companies at the end of the day, too, like, yes, a lot of companies are looking for accountants, but they're also looking for personable accountants.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, always that's kind of rare to find sometimes.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Almost every search we work on with accounting, that's that's the ask.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's why they're paying us the big bucks to find that person is they don't want the right resume, they want of someone who has uh the human skills.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, all right.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I I want to I want everybody who's listening to this who comes from an accounting background or studying accounting in school to hear this.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: When I was at the dean's advisory board two weeks ago, one of the people on the advisory board is a partner at a local accounting firm.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Here's what he said AI will replace part of the job.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: The part it will not replace is the part of you being a consultant.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because accounting, like most things, is not just black and white.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: There are many ways to handle things.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's your ability to consult with your client that's gonna cement the relationship.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: All AI is gonna say the same.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're five different accounting firms using the same AI tools to come up with some kind of tax treatment for something, it's all gonna say the same.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: But you understanding your client, understanding what they're trying to accomplish and helping them structure it, that's where the difference is gonna come into play.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: And this was the person who actually said it's the ability of people to relate to others that's going to get them hired.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: This was from an accountant.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: You guys are hitting it.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like it's a that's this from the field, Mitch, from where it stems, it's a good segue into what our topic is today.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: What is that?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead and launch it, Reagan.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: Just behind the scenes of stuff you guys see with candidates, with CEOs, C-suite people.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I have some questions here if you guys wanted to start.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Let's dive in.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: We'll start with things candidates say or do that immediately hurt their chances.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I got one.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: I got a really fresh one.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: All right, go, go.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: We had I don't want to say it on here.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: But we had a CEO.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now I really want you to say it on air.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: We had somebody at our client's biggest competitor doing the exact same job for five years, go into the interview as like the star, the candidate they could never have imagined hiring, and on a third-round interview dropped some pretty interesting profanity uh in a woman-owned and predominantly woman-led business as a man saying some things you probably shouldn't say.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean can you say it or no?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, he was talking about like basically said the word bitches.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, oh my god.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and a few other things too.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And they were like, Yeah, I don't think we could ever hire this guy.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: And he was on paper.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: We talked to CEO actually today, and she was like, on paper, he is like the dream candidate we would have envisioned hiring, but we cannot bring someone like that in.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's what about making people cry on his team and telling them to wipe their tears off the team.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta know your crowd.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, but but here's the thing: this is why you interview people.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is actually really good news, right?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: I always say this, I always ask people, who wrote the paper?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: We say on paper he looked, he would, he wrote it.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Of course he looks perfect, right?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: But the real him showed up in the interview.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's why you do interviews.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: I I'll tell you what, if any hiring managers are listening to this, I don't think you should hire people over Zoom.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Fly them out.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care if it's cross-country.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: We flew a guy out from Toronto, Canada to Irvine a couple weeks ago for one day, a day before he was taking a trip overseas, and we made it work because we'd only met him over Zoom, and one of our people had met him in person.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: That was it.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: We're like, nope, everybody's got to meet him.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is why.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I got one.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I called a person a couple weeks ago, and I'm driving along, and they're telling me about their last company, and I happen to know the employer, and they know that I know the employer, and they start trash talking their former employer, and they start trash talking the CEO, who actually I have a ton of respect for.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking to myself, who the heck is this guy who thinks he freaking knows everything?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: But he got fired the last three jobs he's had, and he's looking for a port in the storm.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: He got referred by a friend, and I said, Okay, fine, I'm happy to talk to him.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: But wow, did he unleash on everybody?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: It was crazy.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: He's trying to like make himself look better by putting other people down.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it was that.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: It might have been that, or he just had such a lack of judgment about being candid.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: And he actually said, Hey, you know, I probably shouldn't be this candid.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I'm loving this.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no, no, no, just tell it how it is.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me straight.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: I want to hear this.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I won't talk to him again.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: I won't move forward at all.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: He's he's messed up.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: There's like this whole sewer underneath this, you know, rose garden that he's got that paint himself as a great candidate.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: But at the end of the day, he is trash talking the last three companies he's worked for, including one that I know really well.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, how candid should somebody be if they leave their last job and they don't really get along with their boss?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think you got to be very delicate.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great question, Reagan, because it comes up a lot.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: People leave companies for multiple reasons.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they leave of their own volition, they quit.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they get fired.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's there's ways to tell this story, but I don't think throwing your company or your former boss under the bus is one of them.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when you say things like, like, Mitch, how do you like it when a candidate says, Well, what they told me and what I found when I got there weren't really the same?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Or how often do you hear that?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Quite a bit.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that crazy?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: I feel you know what I hear when I hear that?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Victim.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Victim.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: And and by the way, well, why didn't you dig more?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I always think, why do you not uncover this in the interview?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's an excuse.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really an excuse, and it separates in my mind stars from from other players.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Stars go into things to say, hey, nothing's ever like they say it is.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the time when you're interviewing a company, they tell you how they want it to be, not how it is.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: But that's okay.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a big boy.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: I go into that operation, I figure it out, and here's some changes we made.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Why am I leaving or why did I leave?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: I chose to leave because I wasn't getting any joy anymore.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think I accomplished what I needed to accomplish there.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think my goals are unaligned going forward with the senior management team where they want to go.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: They want slow growth, I want fast.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think their model's gonna work for them.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, it was time for me to try something new.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Or whatever the reason is.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Be straight with the reason.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's the other thing I was gonna say, too.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, the one thing I always it's funny, it doesn't trigger me, but it when people say, Oh, it was mutual, I think nothing in this is ever freaking mutual.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Someone started the conversation, it was either you or it was them.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And if it was you, you wouldn't be saying mutual.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: You'd say I left.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's true.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think when I hear that, it makes me just wonder there's like there's more to the story versus maybe Yeah, versus owning it, saying, Hey, I was already kind of thinking this, we had some open conversations, we weren't aligned.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Ultimately, they pulled the trigger first.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: So this just came up today.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: I was talking to somebody today who left their former job, and um, and I said, Oh, I I need to hear the story.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, I haven't worked it out yet.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still working on the story.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Okay.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um They said, I'm not sure how to do it.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Can I give you some advice?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think you should tell the truth.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think you should you should think that everything you say to a potential future employer will be verified with people that know the truth from the other side of the equation at the company.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: So assuming your story doesn't line up with their story, you're not gonna get the job, and you're never gonna know why you didn't get the job.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: How I well, how do you feel about that, Mitch?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think you should always be honest.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: What if the truth is bad?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think uh that's where it gets tricky.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you can always polish up bad truth in some ways while still maintaining, you know, authenticity.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that could also be maybe having a conversation.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe the truth is bad, and you talk to your past employer and you you brainstorm, you know, I'm not gonna be an employee for the rest of my life.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: How would you how can we align on the best way to tell this story?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't want to lie to a future interviewer, and I don't want to say something that I think is true, get verified by you, and it doesn't feel true to you.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: So brainstorming maybe together with that past employer on how to how almost getting their support in the story you share.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: Do you believe that you feel like at the end of the day, we learn this when we're in kindergarten?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's better to tell the truth first than to lie about it and get caught later.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: So lie second.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm kidding.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: No, always tell the truth.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: You learn that in kindergarten?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, don't you?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: You remember?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember kindergarten.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: They taught you to lie at your generation ago.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: That was a long time ago for you.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: So they that's where we learned the word spin.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta put a spin on it.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, I uh, but it was interesting having this conversation.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is a person who's had a long career, and so they haven't been in transition before.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: But uh for anybody out there that is in transition and it wasn't mutual, it never is, and it wasn't of your own volition, you didn't leave, they asked you to leave.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Own it.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and I I would say this be crystal clear.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: What if you say, listen, you know, at the end of the day, they fired me.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: The reason why they fired me was I I didn't deliver the numbers, I didn't deliver the performance they wanted.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I have an opinion about this too, and I want to share it with you because here's what I did deliver in the prior 10 years.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: But this last two years, yeah, we didn't do things the way we should have done them.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: And if I look back, by the way, Mitch, do you have mistakes that you made in the last four years in your business?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think I have mistakes I made in the last four years of my business?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: I made massive mistakes, multi-million dollar mistakes, right?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: If I could look back three years, I would have a couple million dollars more.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Literally.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: They cost me millions of dollars because I could have fixed problems years ago.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: We all make mistakes.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Own them.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I had a friend actually call me yesterday, uh, pretty good friend of mine.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't talked to in a long time.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I met him through my job before I started my company, and uh Bo actually fired him.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we brought him in and fired him probably six months later, and now he's killing it, making like 700 grand a year in med tech sales.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: And he totally found his niche working with like med spas and doctors.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's he does really well on that.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: The corporate recruiting stuff wasn't what he was meant to do.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I mean it's a great story in that he was fired and he had a few jobs, he tried IT, he tried different sales, he found his niche and the customer base that he could naturally win with and his personality related to well.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Did he now have he got fired before he got the job with them?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Did they ever call you?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he had job jump quite a bit between that job and the one he's in now.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I mean that's the thing, right?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great story because he's doing really, really well.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: Would he have had the opportunity to do really well if he was honest with them?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I always go to this place where I say everybody knows everything.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: So if you come at something with a a non-truth or let's call it sugarcoating, right?
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: And your old boss or your old employer is called in a back channel.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I know somebody.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: I just Reagan, I back channel check somebody I'm gonna interview with your mom.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Did you know that?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: The I mean, yeah, I wasn't gonna say who, but don't say who.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, but do you know who I'm talking about?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I'm talking about?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: I talked to your mom at the wedding.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Oh, I talked to somebody that'll work with you.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: A lot, I haven't talked to them yet, but I'm I'm going to.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: And she back channel checked that person for me, which was great because now I want to interview that person.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_03: Cool.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you're you gotta assume you're gonna be back channeled, you're never gonna know it, and your reputation is going to precede you in the opportunity for whatever you're looking at.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: And that's even 10 years down the line.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Years later.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: And and by the way, you could be different now, but it's something you got to think about.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, uh, what else you got there?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: What hiring managers say after an interview?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: What are things you guys talk about?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: What are things you hit on that candidates can make sure they're hitting on?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I love?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: I love when a candidate asks, hey, is there anything that we didn't talk about today that you would want to know before, you know, considering me seriously for this role?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Or after meeting with me today, how do you feel about my fit for this role?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you can be candid with me because I don't want to waste my time and I definitely don't want to waste yours.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: So if you don't think it's a fit, I'm okay with that.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'm excited by this and I want to see how excited you are.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my favorite's when they close me.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me how.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, it's just like a sales close.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's hey, really excited.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks again for you know taking the time.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: What are the next steps?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm interested.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: What if you don't want to give them next steps?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Then you just say we're interviewing more people and we'll get back to you.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: Or you just tell them, hey, if I'm being honest, I don't know if there will be next steps.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure if this is the right fit for what we're looking for.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm happy to give you a little bit of feedback before we hang up.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: That could help you in your search.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, I think I I love the question where somebody says, Is there anything else I could have done?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or how do you feel about where we stand?
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'd like to talk about next steps, and you can be candid with me because also the person can say, Hey, I get it.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: I just had this, I had to uh close somebody out today, and it was rough because I really like this person, but we don't have a role for them.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: But and he was bummed, but he could have said, Hey, I'm sold.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be I'd be there in a New York minute with you guys.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm bummed that it's not going to be with you guys, but you know people in this business.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Is there another team you could refer me to?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Is there another company you could refer me to that I could play a part in?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that was a missed opportunity on their part, but I think a candidate asking that question in the interview, if the interview's a shutdown, can uh can walk away with something.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: I always uh you know, it's when I said to your point about selling, when I go and sell a prospect and the prospect turns out not to be a great prospect, I ask them about their relationships.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: You in any networking groups with any other HR leaders?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like to know who they are.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: What do you got?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: How if someone asks for feedback, do you guys always give it to them or are you like depends on what the feedback is, yeah, and if I feel like safe to give it to them without any liability.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like you gotta be a little bit more careful about that these days.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Give an example, right?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Safe space right here.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: Say what you want.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, I gotta think of one.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, but there's certain things you just can't really make a decision based on, and you don't want to offend you.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: I like I had a gal interview that was totally not the right fit, and I ended up giving her feedback, and I felt a little uncomfortable doing it because I didn't feel like there was any connection or bond in our interview together, and I actually ended the interview short because I didn't want to waste her time doing a two-hour thing with us.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: If we all kind of knew within the first hour it was probably a hard no.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, yeah, I just kind of felt uncomfortable.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: Did she ask or did you just give it to her?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: I gave it to her.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: I felt I felt uh like I don't know.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: I I was just uncomfortable because I didn't feel like she was open to feedback.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I probably should have just said it and let her ask instead of giving it away for free.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I feel like I want to help people, and by not sharing the why behind it, she'll wonder why.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it had nothing to do with her, it was just really a fit thing, and that's the hardest one to explain because you can't always explain fit.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's a feeling, yeah, and a knowing.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's a big deal, but it's gotta be felt both both ways, you know.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: At the end of the day, it's about culture, it's about relationships, and if you can't feel like you can build that bond with somebody, you're not gonna want to be in the foxhole with them.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: I just think uh you gotta say, listen, I just don't think it's a fit.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: You seem like a great person, but I'm not sure that culturally our you know, we're a match.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: Nice.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's all the time we have today.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, this was good.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really excited for for our next week's podcast.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's gonna be a really unique exercise that our listeners are gonna get a different perspective inside of us.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so till next time.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait.