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Carried Forward When Faith Survived Religion · Military Broadcast Radio | MBR Talk

• 0:25
  When life shapes us. When love anchors us, when lost
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  changes us, we are not left behind.
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  We are carried forward, held by faith, rooted in purpose,
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  finding our way. This is carried Forward, a space
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  for stories of resilience, purpose and forward resolve.
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  Hi, good morning and welcome to Carried Forward.
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  Today's podcast episode is going to be about religious trauma.
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  My guest today is Megan Word and she's just going to share with
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  us. But, you know, sometimes
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  spiritual wounds don't happen just in the world, but they also
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  happen in places that we felt that we could trust.
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  And she's going to just share a little bit about her story and
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  who she is and how God has worked in her life in spite of
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  the sins of others. And just welcome, Megan.
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  I appreciate you being here today.
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  Just you can just talk with me. And then you can, if you have
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  something to say to everyone, you can just look out to them
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  and talk to them. But it's just us having a
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  conversation, OK? Well, thank you for having me.
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  Yeah. Tell us a little bit about you,
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  about who you are and yeah, today.
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  OK well I am a wife and a mom of three.
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  I am a tech CA for a chiropractic office.
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  I'm also a certified health coach, so that's where my main
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  background is and we are not local to New Braunfels.
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  We just recently moved here within the past.
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  Eight months. So yeah, Southeast Texas.
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  OK, Yeah. Where, where specific between.
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  Lufkin and Beaumont. OK, I know that.
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  Woodville. Yeah, I know Woodville.
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  Are you serious? Yeah.
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  I was born in Orange, TX. Yeah.
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  OK. We we haven't had this
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  conversation, but yeah, my Woodville, my great grandmother
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  used to live there. Yeah.
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  Oh, my gosh. Really.
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  Yeah. Yeah.
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  Oh, wow. OK, so I know that area.
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  OK, no family there now. Maybe some like, just like
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  cousins of my mom, I believe still live in that area.
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  OK, yeah, my mom, my mom's family, like her mother's family
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  grew up in that area. What was the last name?
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  Schulte. Yeah.
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  So OK. Yeah.
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  But that's really cool. Not many people do know that.
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  Very like Woodville. Not at all.
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  So what brought you here? Well, we.
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  Lived our entire lives there. My husband was from the town
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  next to Woodville Warren. And so we were like rival
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  schools, but we lived there our entire lives.
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  And we kind of came to a point where he had changed careers and
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  he was working remote. And you know, we're raising 3
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  little kids and we're at, they're at that age where you
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  just kind of have to face the questions of OK, what are we,
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  what are we doing while we raise them right?
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  Like is this going to be a small town thing?
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  Because a lot of times where I come from, the common thing is
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  you either move when you graduate high school or you stay
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  there forever. OK, that's the norm.
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  That's the norm. There's a little bit of in
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  between, but not much. So we had sold our house in town
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  and so we were in a position of what do we want to do?
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  Which I get is a privilege. Like a lot of people feel like
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  they don't have the opportunity right to where they can.
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  Go. Anywhere.
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  And so we just kind of were thinking, at first we thought we
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  were going to be in Houston area or the Dallas area.
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  And then we had contemplated just building on family land and
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  staying in the area for, you know, indefinitely.
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  But it was over an hour to get to anything, over an hour to get
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  to even the nearest HEB movie theater, any type of activity
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  that we wanted to do with the kids.
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  And we like to go right, We like to do all that.
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  So we were driving a lot to do those things.
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  And my aunt actually moved here in 2020, and so we've been
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  visiting her for the past five years.
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  And it was this time last year that we came down for my son's
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  birthday. And we just decided that it was
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  somewhere that we could see ourselves being, and the rest is
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  history. Well, that's awesome.
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  And I met Megan at the chiropractor clinic, Max living.
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  That was our last episode. So that's where she actually
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  works. Well, I'm glad that you family
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  decided to move here. Is lots of people are deciding
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  to move here. I know New Braunfels, I know up
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  and coming. It's like number, I don't know,
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  two or three in the country. Yeah, along with Georgetown,
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  which I remember that was there. But so just a little bit.
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  What are some? I'm just going to ask you a
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  couple of different types of questions just to get us kind of
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  focused in what are some things that bring me joy and how would
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  your friends describe you? Some things that bring me joy,
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  being with my kids, being with my husband, three boys.
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  Or. No2 boys and one girl, but
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  they're all between the ages of like 8:00 and 12:00.
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  So yeah, we, I mean, every moment that I'm not working, I'm
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  with them and we're doing stuff, whether it be going to
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  Schlitterbahn, going to Fiesta Texas, going to Landa Park, Like
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  we're always doing something. Where's lots of things to do,
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  Yes. We're never just sitting still.
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  So yeah, I just, I love being with them.
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  Every chance that I get, how people would describe me, I am
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  loyal almost to a fault. In fact, I would say sometimes.
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  To a fault. I think that's why I've been
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  able to get hurt so much. You know, I understand that I'm.
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  I, you know, I resemble that. I'm definitely trustworthy and I
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  I love hard. OK, Yeah, me.
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  It's funny to say that. And those are good words like to
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  loyal to a fault and then you love hard and deeply.
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  Those are the people that speaking from experience of me
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  and my daughter, we're very much like that.
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  And my daughter's 21, she's been on here and I, I often have to
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  tell her like there's nothing wrong with the way that you love
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  and same goes for you. There's nothing wrong with the
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  way that you love. Just be cautious because not
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  everyone deserves that kind of love from you and that
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  connection because speaking from my own experience, because I am
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  loyal and love deeply like you. Could you get hurt?
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  Because not every. And I don't know if I knew this.
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  I know I didn't know it at 21 and I was so lucky to meet
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  someone that loved just as hard as me.
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  But not everybody loves that hard.
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  And that's what I've had to share with her is like, and
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  she's learned. I mean, I'm sure as we're going
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  to speak to today that you've learned that too then.
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  But I don't know, you tell me, did you when you first like
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  started loving, you know, and really acknowledge that and not
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  as a child, but more as adolescent adult, Like did you
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  know that other people didn't love the way that you love like
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  so deeply or is that did you? Sure, but also I was very
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  fortunate. Like if we're talking
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  romantically, like I met my husband when I was 16 and we
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  just were one of those. We just got lucky, right?
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  We just got lucky because I know, I know it's, that's not
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  normal, you know what I mean? But yeah, I, I think so.
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  I, I knew from a like I said, we met, we were 16 and, and I knew,
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  like I knew that I knew that that was, that was my.
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  Person OK, that I mean, I had that kind of love with my
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  husband that passed away at we got married at 16.
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  And that's what I'm saying like we love so deeply.
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  But I think in that I had a little bit of naivety that that
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  that other people that all people, especially when you're
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  like committing or like or like having a maybe not even remote
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  romantic, but like a deep friendship with someone like of
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  course they're going to love as much as deeply as I am, but I
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  had to learn the kind of the hard way.
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  It sounds like maybe you, you are a little bit more ready for
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  like probably the world than me because I was like, what?
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  People don't love like deeply. Like I do like, everybody
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  doesn't love that way. But you know, I, I assume learn
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  that that they don't and you do get hurt.
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  Yes. So that's cool.
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  So friends would describe you loyal and you love deeply.
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  Yeah. With, with all of yourself.
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  So we're going to talk a little bit about your faith story
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  because that's what we're focusing on today is being hurt.
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  And I'm calling it religious Rama.
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  I don't know if that's enough visual term or not, but yeah,
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  yeah. But we'll use it to be super
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  serious, right? Right.
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  Yeah, it does. Just meeting like you were in a
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  religious situation and I don't, I particularly I don't like the
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  word religious when I'm talking about like a church family like
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  because there's religion and then there's faith.
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  And I think religion has to do with legalistic.
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  Exactly right performance. Yeah, and like faith and love
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  and believe in in Jesus and have their relationship with them
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  inherently comes with some religion, but they're they're
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  separate. They're my in my head.
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  So can you share as much as your story as you're comfortable with
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  and in regards to being hurt and it was in like a religious,
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  yeah, like a church, right situation.
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  Yeah, I do want to preface the this can be like for me to other
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  people, it may seem minor, right?
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  Because I know I know of some stories where there's been some
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  crazy stuff. Do you know what I mean?
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  So I am very fortunate that this is minor.
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  Being in being a Christian for my entire life.
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  There's going to come with some wounds, right?
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  Like that's. Imperfect people that make us,
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  yes. So I do want to preface that I
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  acknowledge that my situation may not be as extreme as what
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  other people have experienced, but I do also want to
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  acknowledge that in this culture, we don't talk about
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  what happens to people enough. Like when people are quote, UN
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  quote, church hurt. I feel like it has this taboo on
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  it where you're either looked at as what did you do, right?
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  Or like, OK, just get over it because God didn't do it.
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  People are imperfect, right? So it's like 1 or the other.
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  There's not a lot of grace or meeting people where they're at
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  in that aspect that I feel like like nobody is looking to you.
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  I feel like the best way to say it is like, what with what I
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  experienced, there wasn't a lot of people that not necessarily
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  relatability, but like you can't talk about it, right?
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  Like, because then you're looked at is there's something that was
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  that that you did like there's two sides of the.
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  Story yes, too sensitive yes, yes, I got you.
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  You're like, that happens to everybody.
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  You're exactly well and I, I wanted to step back and go just
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  because there's other things that happened to other people
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  that might be bigger, we should take a moment to acknowledge
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  like it doesn't invalidate, right?
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  It doesn't invalidate your experience and everyone like,
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  and I, I, I, I've learned this in more depth, like a deeper
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  knowledge of like everyone's perceptions of things are
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  different and something that hurts me deeply may not hurt you
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  deeply because we've lived this world differently, right.
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  And so it's to acknowledge and to validate and, and honor like
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  just because I wasn't hurt by that, well, I've walked a
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  different Rd. than you. You were hurt by it.
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  And it should be acknowledged that it hit you differently in a
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  moment to take back and go, Hey, you know, I, I didn't realize
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  that that that really would have hurt you because I've never had
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  that before. Right, right.
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  And I, and I think that often happens and in a lot of
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  environments, but I especially like church environments because
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  we all think we're, we're, we're Christians and we're coming to
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  the same place and we, we maybe relatively live similar lives
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  because we're living in the same environments or whatever, but
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  we're not the same people. And a lot of people don't
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  realize that and maybe they haven't broaden their
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  experiences in life to see like just how different people are.
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  Right. And on that note, I just wanted
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  to say that we're not here to criticize churches or
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  individuals. We're just trying to talk
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  honestly about exploring hope and faith and healing through
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  grace. And not, not, not trying to
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  criticize churches at all. It's just acknowledging how life
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  happens, you know, and how people do get hurt and how we
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  should walk along even if we don't understand why they got
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  hurt, why they're hurt. Right you.
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  Know for sure, but thank you so much and I will let you continue
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  to Share your story. Thank you for being, having the
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  courage to, to get out of your comfort zone and speak about
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  this because it, it sounds like maybe it has been, it has been
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  maybe not validated or like not in certain cases, maybe like,
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  oh, well, that's no big deal. That happens to everybody.
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  So thank you for having the courage to come here and go.
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  It may happen to everyone, but I think it could be spoken.
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  About yeah, I just know that I've seen other situations where
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  we are living in a time where people are quote UN quote
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  deconstructing their faith and it's frowned upon, right?
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  Even that word sets people off and it's like, however they take
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  it for something that it doesn't mean, like we should all seek
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  out what? Like God, you know what I mean?
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  Believing what somebody says versus actually finding out
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  what. He says 100% so you should read
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  the Bible yourself. Exactly, exactly.
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  And you know, I'm, I'm going to be very careful with how I speak
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  because I want to maintain honor in those situations, not because
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  necessarily that the people deserve honor, but because I'm
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  an honorable person. And I think that that's
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  important and I, I do very much still think fondly of the people
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  that I experienced this with. But that doesn't mean that it
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  didn't hurt like heck in the beginning, you know, But when my
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  husband and I were young, like newly married, even before we
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  were married, to be honest with you, he was a youth pastor in a
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  church that he I, I don't want to say grew up in.
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  I mean, essentially he did grow up.
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  Yeah. He he grew up in that church.
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  So it was we were young, you know, and he was the youth
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  pastor throughout us being married and then into having our
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  first child. And we got to a point where we
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  were in our early 20s and we just had a desire for more, OK?
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  And I was in a denomination that I don't want to say is super
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  legalistic, but it was very much a atmosphere of if you're not
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  doing it the way that we're doing it, you're going to hell,
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  right? If you're not doing it the exact
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  way that we're doing it, you're not doing it right.
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  And so you had the this judgement towards every other
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  church and every other person, regardless of what they
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  believed, right? And I was very much caught up in
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  that like, to the point where I feel like that's a trigger for
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  me now to see like people act up like that sort of thing makes me
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  very angry because I hate that version of myself from the past.
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  Does that make sense? So.
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  We got to this point where we were just, we were having prayer
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  meetings with our best friends and then it grew a little bit to
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  like some family members outside of that and then even some other
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  church members that we were with at the time.
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  And we were seeing amazing things.
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  Like just amazing big time. It was just so cool.
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  And it was. There were.
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  It was so innocent. It was one of those things where
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  we just wanted more. We just wanted to, you know,
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  just get deeper, you know, because you do you.
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  Start to crave yes, you're like feeling the Lord and yes and
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  working and you're like I want to stay ready or whatever I'm
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  doing. Let's do keep doing exactly and
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  it. Just, you know, deep calls on to
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  deep, right? Like, so like, the deeper you
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  go, the deeper you want to go and the more he draws you, you
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  know? And so we had just, it came to a
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  point where we felt the leading to find somewhere else that
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  would help us grow even more. Yeah.
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  You know. Not that there was anything
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  wrong with where we were. We had been, we were there for
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  almost 10 years, right? But where I come from, when
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  you're in a small town, the misconception or the common
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  belief is that apparently you're supposed to stay in the same
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  church your whole life and die there.
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  You know what I mean? Like at least that's how it felt
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  like. And it felt like that with more
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  than just one church that I attended, you know what I mean?
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  Like it just feels like that's that's the common theme is that
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  you're supposed to stay there and you're supposed to die
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  there. And if you leave there?
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  Something that, yeah, you know what I mean?
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  Like something's gone. Wrong.
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  You're you're going off off the deep end.
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  And I find that to be true. And more than just that
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  particular church like it that that was the common theme.
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  Yeah, No. I I grew up in small town too so
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  I do understand that like when you choose to go to a different
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  church they they feel like. It must be something's wrong
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  with them, like we found something wrong there and that's
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  not the case. Like, you know, we all are
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  living different lives and we're being LED differently and we
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  have different paths and growing at different speeds, right?
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  So essentially we left. Now, I will not say that we,
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  like I said, we were early 20s, we were very young.
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  We had never experienced something to this degree.
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  And it, it, it was I, I will own our fault in it, right?
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  We were in a leadership position and we did not give them notice.
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  It was like one of those things where it was like, and I think
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  at the time I, I very much recall why we did that.
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  And it was because my husband felt like, if I don't do it now,
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  like I, I feel like I'm going to die tomorrow if I don't, you
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  know, because it just was so strong.
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  And instead of like he hadn't quite been mature enough to
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  realize like that's not what that was.
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  That was just like, that was the Holy Spirit telling you, yes,
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  that is what you need to do, but there's a right way to do it,
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  right? And so we didn't necessarily do
• 23:13
  it the right way. And I own that.
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  But with that, if it was horrible because that was that
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  felt like that was our family, right?
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  Like we've been there 10 years and I was closer to some of them
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  than I was my own family, right? Like, you know, you have people
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  that you look up to. And that pastor was my husband's
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  mentor. And like it was just, you know,
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  and they had helped you walk. Through some hard times, Yeah,
• 23:40
  well, you know it. He was like a father figure to
• 23:43
  my husband, right? Like a spiritual father figure.
• 23:46
  And so, yeah, it felt like things were somewhat clean when
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  we left. Like there was some pushback in
• 23:56
  regards to that. But at the same time, it was
• 23:59
  very evident that like, this was what we're doing.
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  And you know, you didn't know how to verbalize right without
• 24:06
  it coming off is this is not giving us what we need, right?
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  Like like it, it's it's very delicate when you do something
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  like that, right? And of course, we didn't have
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  the wherewithal to verbalize it. You know, people.
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  Are going to be hurt even if we're trying not to hurt them
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  exactly, exactly and then people get reactive and yes and and as.
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  Pastors can do, they get defensive.
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  They feel like they have to do damage control.
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  They feel like they have to protect their flock, so to
• 24:39
  speak, Right. And so that's kind of what
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  happened in that situation at the expense of my husband's
• 24:48
  reputation where it was taken like we were talked about behind
• 24:53
  the pulpit on Sunday mornings, you know what I mean?
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  Like with my mother-in-law in the congregation, you know, and
• 25:02
  it went to the point where, you know, everyone that we had been
• 25:06
  close to ended up leaving and not for us.
• 25:09
  Not not because we left. It wasn't like we left.
• 25:13
  And then it was very much a the ones that were still around.
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  We're like, is this? What?
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  What is? What is this?
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  What is? What is happening?
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  Why? Is this a focus right now?
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  You know, like we were general, genuinely just doing what the
• 25:27
  Lord told us to do, OK. I see.
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  You know, and it just wasn't handled all the way around very
• 25:32
  well. Yes.
• 25:33
  You guys didn't separate it a little bit more like given a
• 25:38
  little bit more advanced pressure, we could have done
• 25:40
  that. And then their reaction because
• 25:43
  they were hurt, went beyond, it sounds like.
• 25:47
  Yeah, yeah. So when you know, you're talked
• 25:49
  about behind the pulpit, when it's like that's been your
• 25:52
  family for 10 years, you know, and and if that had been the
• 25:56
  only thing, that'd be one thing. Like you can write that off,
• 26:00
  right? He's like, oh, well, you know,
• 26:02
  he was doing what he like it had to be addressed, right?
• 26:07
  We were youth pastors, you know what I mean?
• 26:10
  So it's like in that regard, it's like you can get past like,
• 26:12
  OK, I understand. Like he had but but it went to a
• 26:16
  whole nother level that it didn't need to in regards to
• 26:21
  like I had I think I had like read.
• 26:26
  Have you heard of Bill Johnson? No.
• 26:29
  Excellent. I have read a book and it was
• 26:32
  written by a pastor named Bill Johnson and the book changed my
• 26:36
  life. Like it was a supernatural.
• 26:40
  Power of a transformed mind, and it it's essentially talking
• 26:45
  about how like God is inherently good.
• 26:49
  Like that's the gist of the book.
• 26:51
  God. Is inherently good and anything
• 26:54
  other than that, like everything that you deal with, everything
• 26:57
  that you hear, every scripture that you interpret all needs to
• 27:00
  be through the lens that God is good and he's in a good mood all
• 27:07
  the time. I know he's not and I think like
• 27:15
  a Google search was done and over the book because I think I
• 27:19
  had talked about it and had like posted it on social media like
• 27:22
  on my story of like this is an amazing book.
• 27:25
  It has changed my life. And so a Google search was done
• 27:29
  with some not so great. Like this wasn't even about like
• 27:33
  me. Saying that the.
• 27:35
  Pastor was the end all be all. It was just about the book and
• 27:38
  what the book had done for me. And so he's he's a mega church
• 27:43
  pastor. OK, So like when you Google that
• 27:46
  with any password that has a platform which that's a whole
• 27:51
  other? Subject some.
• 27:54
  Not so great things came up or some weird things came up and
• 27:57
  things that are even false, right?
• 27:59
  Like false allegations and that was taken with and that was run
• 28:02
  or they ran away with that, right.
• 28:03
  And so all of a sudden we became these people that were following
• 28:06
  this crazy movement, following doing these crazy things of
• 28:09
  words that I've never even heard of, like just some crazy.
• 28:13
  You know what I mean? They hear something.
• 28:15
  And they just run with it, and so they're trying.
• 28:17
  To explain their hurt, right, right.
• 28:20
  Trying to say well it must be something yes, else yes.
• 28:25
  Rather than talking. With you guys and going, hey,
• 28:27
  you really hurt us. Yeah, like.
• 28:29
  Yeah. Can we talk about this like,
• 28:31
  yeah, yeah, yeah. And.
• 28:34
  Unfortunately, being from a small town, it went even further
• 28:38
  as to like we were disowned, right?
• 28:42
  You see people in the grocery store and they act like they
• 28:45
  have no idea who you are. And people that we consider best
• 28:48
  friends where you walk by them in the grocery store and you're
• 28:52
  so excited to see when you say hi, they don't even look at you.
• 28:56
  OK, so that's a. Different side of things that
• 29:00
  not everyone has to face. Like I'm sure a lot of people
• 29:03
  out there have dealt with like maybe moving churches and
• 29:06
  dealing with that church group, you know, kind of have problems
• 29:11
  with you. But you're Speaking of like
• 29:14
  small town dynamics that like most everyone probably goes to
• 29:21
  the, you know, same 5, four or five churches and now like
• 29:27
  you've been disowned in the town.
• 29:31
  So where it was like, talk about that a little bit.
• 29:34
  I mean, the church itself was known to be a little extreme,
• 29:44
  right? It had that reputation, OK.
• 29:47
  The church that you? Yeah, it had.
• 29:49
  That reputation to be a little extreme on things, a little kind
• 29:53
  of crazy, and that's just the way.
• 29:56
  And you're in a small town, you know what I mean?
• 29:58
  Like anything, that's their beliefs.
• 30:01
  And how they they've walked out their faith.
• 30:07
  Yeah. Which?
• 30:08
  Comes in certain territories, right?
• 30:09
  Like that's just the norm and that's that's fine.
• 30:13
  But yeah, so that that was, yeah, in and of itself felt.
• 30:24
  In and. Of itself felt like it.
• 30:26
  It felt like a divorce. OK, OK.
• 30:29
  Like I remember talking to. Well, I could say that.
• 30:32
  Like in the town it felt like because that's.
• 30:36
  All you know for 10 years and then all of a sudden you're not
• 30:38
  there you're not with these people that you see 4 + * a week
• 30:42
  right And everything that you do outside of normal life is with
• 30:45
  them. So like all of my relationships
• 30:48
  were in that church OK OK. And so for that to happen and
• 30:54
  then for it to just be so did cut off was horrible.
• 31:00
  So now. My heart wonders like did this
• 31:04
  have an effect on your faith and trust in God?
• 31:09
  Thankfully, no. I had a good enough foundation
• 31:13
  that. And like I said, the reason why
• 31:15
  we left is because God was moving so much in our life and
• 31:18
  we felt led to do that. Yeah.
• 31:21
  So in that sense, thankfully no, because we had that was the
• 31:26
  reason we were leaving. And so no, there was no taking
• 31:33
  my eyes off. And did you?
• 31:34
  Find a new church home. We did.
• 31:36
  We did. And we were there for almost 10
• 31:38
  years as well until we moved here, but similarly experienced
• 31:45
  some not so great things from that, right.
• 31:49
  You know, I and I, I think it it, I don't want to say that it
• 31:54
  comes with a territory because that will keep people from
• 31:59
  pursuing a church, right. OK.
• 32:04
  I see what you're saying. Yeah.
• 32:06
  I mean, like we had said earlier, is like churches, no
• 32:12
  matter where you're at, they're made-up of imperfect.
• 32:16
  They are. Right, they are.
• 32:19
  And I, and this is that's something that you hear when
• 32:22
  people talk about church hurt and why they don't go to church
• 32:25
  or why they and I, yes, that's true.
• 32:30
  It's imperfect people, however, Yeah, we've got to do better,
• 32:34
  right? Yeah.
• 32:35
  I. Was just going to say, like,
• 32:36
  that's an explanation, not an excuse, right?
• 32:41
  It explains why people be, you know, don't know how to behave
• 32:45
  sometimes. And then it means that, yeah, we
• 32:49
  do have to do better and like have conversation and like
• 32:56
  instead of making up rumors and and not getting the true facts,
• 33:00
  like go and talk to people and go like be big enough and bold
• 33:05
  enough in the Bible. It it actually has steps on how
• 33:09
  you're supposed to do that. And you're supposed to go in
• 33:12
  private to speak to people first, right, Right.
• 33:16
  And and then and then if that doesn't work, then you bring
• 33:19
  someone else with you and you speak to them, Right.
• 33:21
  Yeah, right. We tried that out.
• 33:23
  We did try that Ave. later on but.
• 33:26
  It didn't affect how I viewed God.
• 33:30
  It didn't affect my faith. It affected my faith in people.
• 33:35
  It affected my relationships with people.
• 33:39
  It has affected my relationship with the church very much.
• 33:44
  So I'm still healing's not linear, no, no, never is.
• 33:50
  And so I'm still healing from some more recent things and that
• 33:57
  are similar in in and of themselves.
• 34:01
  It has definitely made me to where I have no desire to be
• 34:07
  involved. We go to church, but no desire
• 34:10
  to be involved in the church. And I am only speaking for me.
• 34:15
  I am not speaking for my husband.
• 34:16
  I am literally only speaking for me.
• 34:19
  It has made me be very hesitant. I have walls up and while we go
• 34:26
  to church and I love where we go and I love the pastor, I have no
• 34:29
  desire to go to any outside events from Sunday morning.
• 34:35
  I have no desire to make friends with anybody in the church
• 34:38
  because every relationship that I have had that is tied to
• 34:45
  people I go to church with. I've been deeply, deeply.
• 34:51
  Hurt by OK, OK Every relationship, yeah.
• 34:57
  So I feel like it, the way it is showed me is that if you have
• 35:04
  friendships within the church that you go to, that's the only
• 35:09
  reason you're friends is because you go to the same church.
• 35:12
  So once you leave the church, they want nothing to do with
• 35:16
  you. Oh yeah.
• 35:17
  That hurts my my heart and it's. That's that's tough, right like.
• 35:23
  I mean, and no, I mean, I can see why you feel that way,
• 35:27
  right? I I.
• 35:29
  Yeah. I mean, yeah, I'm we're talking
• 35:33
  like relationships that have lasted 10 plus years and all of
• 35:36
  a sudden that's not I. Will say this though, that's not
• 35:41
  how it should be right? No, I don't.
• 35:43
  Yeah, we walk in community and and it should be beyond the
• 35:49
  church walls unit and it should be on like you.
• 35:55
  You go to the. Same church as me, but you know,
• 35:58
  I've had I've known so many people, unfortunately, that
• 36:06
  because as I said that as I spoke those words like you go to
• 36:09
  the same church as me. I have several different hurts
• 36:12
  people I know in my life that like because other people didn't
• 36:16
  go to the same church as them and they stopped going to the
• 36:19
  same church like some like they treated them so differently.
• 36:22
  Yes, yes. And that's what's crazy is like,
• 36:26
  you do you do you do you get treated differently, you know?
• 36:30
  And it's like, well, I thought this was way more about the
• 36:34
  church that we attended. Like I thought it was way deeper
• 36:37
  than that. And it was about you.
• 36:39
  Felt it was more you were hoping that was more about who you are
• 36:42
  as a person. Yes.
• 36:43
  Not. Because you happen to go to the
• 36:46
  same church as yes. Or because we are living
• 36:50
  identical lives and beliefs, believing the same thing, right?
• 36:53
  Like, and I'll be the first to say that over the past like 5
• 36:57
  years, my husband and I, we have really like just went through
• 37:05
  every belief that we've had and thought, why do we believe this?
• 37:09
  Is this the correct way? Right.
• 37:12
  Inventory, yes, yes. And we've changed a lot of our
• 37:17
  beliefs, right? And, you know, people get
• 37:21
  threatened by that. Yeah, they're scared.
• 37:23
  They're scared. They get threatened.
• 37:25
  By that, and they think that that means that I don't know
• 37:29
  that that somehow it gets in the mix of like we must not be as
• 37:35
  close to God anymore or something.
• 37:37
  It's like, no, I'm closer than I've ever been.
• 37:39
  You don't. We have moved further and
• 37:42
  further and further and further away from performance driven
• 37:45
  relationship, right? And more of seeing him as he
• 37:51
  truly is, right. Yeah, having a true relationship
• 37:54
  with him. Rather than doing all the things
• 37:58
  yes, doing. All the things and people are so
• 38:00
  caught up and and yes, your life when you are living for Jesus
• 38:06
  will look that looks a certain way.
• 38:08
  It does, yeah. But we cannot put in a box how
• 38:11
  that looks, right. And there are nuances to that
• 38:16
  that I think the church gets so hung up on.
• 38:21
  Well. You can do this, but you can't
• 38:23
  do this. And you can do this, but you
• 38:25
  can't do this. You can be with these people,
• 38:26
  but you can't be with these people like it's so.
• 38:31
  It's. Rooted in control, yeah.
• 38:34
  And it should be coming biblically based.
• 38:37
  That shouldn't be in like, oh, opinion based.
• 38:40
  Like, oh, we don't like those people.
• 38:42
  So that that means that they're not Christian or they're not
• 38:46
  believers or. Yeah, Yeah.
• 38:48
  Yeah. It's, I mean, founded on the
• 38:52
  Bible. Yeah.
• 38:53
  And God's Word and yeah. Because you know how many people
• 39:01
  have been touched by the Lord and they do not have a church to
• 39:05
  go to. Right.
• 39:07
  Like, I mean, around the world. That is what I'm thinking.
• 39:12
  Yeah. It's beautiful, beautiful to
• 39:14
  have a place to go in worship and people to go and be with and
• 39:20
  community to have access to and and people to call you on your
• 39:27
  BS, right? That.
• 39:29
  Is it is I think that was that's important.
• 39:32
  But as it sounds like you and your husband have been doing, it
• 39:37
  has to be coming from a place throughout.
• 39:41
  I mean, that's my opinion. That is not opinion that it's
• 39:47
  biblical, right? Right.
• 39:49
  Right, it's not. Oh, you shouldn't do that
• 39:53
  because that that's not like us, right?
• 39:57
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can see how that that would
• 40:01
  make you super sensitive. Like if time and time again,
• 40:04
  that's what you get into. Yeah.
• 40:06
  And it's, it's tough because we believe things because grandpa
• 40:14
  said it, right. And and his.
• 40:17
  Grandpa believed it and his grandpa believed it.
• 40:20
  And you come down the line and some ideas can be met and
• 40:25
  changed a little bit, but it's it's it's tough because the
• 40:31
  Bible can be interpreted any way that you want to interpret it,
• 40:36
  if we're being honest, right? Yeah, it can be, it can be
• 40:40
  skewed any way that you want it to be skewed.
• 40:44
  And so that's, and we realized that and that's where we took
• 40:49
  everything and we, you know, had some, pun intended, come to
• 40:54
  Jesus meetings about some things.
• 40:57
  You. Know things that we were super
• 40:59
  judgmental on and things that we were super like adamant about
• 41:05
  God's like, hey, So what if I told you this?
• 41:09
  Would you would you be offended? Would you be offended if I did?
• 41:13
  Would you be offended if I had if, if I turned water into wine
• 41:17
  in front of you? Right, right.
• 41:20
  Right. He did that, by the way, Exactly
• 41:24
  he did. Yeah.
• 41:25
  You know what I mean. Would you be?
• 41:26
  I mean, how many people did Jesus offend exactly?
• 41:30
  Exactly. Unintentionally, yeah.
• 41:33
  That's kind of the point, yeah. Like it's showing us, OK, you're
• 41:37
  you're getting lost in all the laws.
• 41:41
  Yes, you're getting hung up. You're asking the wrong
• 41:44
  questions. Yeah, yeah.
• 41:46
  Can I do this? You're asking the wrong
• 41:49
  questions. It's not about what you can and
• 41:52
  can't do right. And then that's also why it's so
• 41:55
  important to and he wants us each to have our our own
• 41:59
  personal relationships because he talks to each of us uniquely,
• 42:04
  right? And I think that's so essential
• 42:08
  that, yeah, if anything, if you get anything on this podcast is
• 42:12
  like, have your own relationship with the Lord.
• 42:17
  Don't don't let your church dictate your relationship.
• 42:21
  Don't let your friends or your family dictate your relationship
• 42:25
  and your beliefs and your beliefs like have your own
• 42:28
  relationship with the Lord and and have him speak on you in
• 42:33
  regards to now, I will say that churches are, like I said
• 42:38
  before, are really just beautiful places.
• 42:42
  They they're supposed to be beautiful places that you go and
• 42:45
  you are held like accountable because we all have sinful
• 42:49
  natures, right? And we can all like read
• 42:52
  something and make it sound just like what we owe.
• 42:54
  I can do that. But that is why, like we all
• 42:57
  should be able to trust the people that we are in community
• 43:05
  with, right? Being a church, be it the people
• 43:09
  that you have Bible study with, or maybe you're not going to
• 43:13
  church, but you're just having fellowship with them, like you,
• 43:18
  you should be able to trust them and like it.
• 43:20
  And question, right? I do have a question.
• 43:23
  Can you help me? Can you walk me through this?
• 43:25
  Yeah, right. Where does it?
• 43:27
  Say it in the Bible and can you explain that to me?
• 43:29
  You know, and not and I'm giving a lot of my own opinions, but
• 43:37
  like and not disown you when you are not do it like when you're
• 43:41
  having questions or are not wanting to be in their church.
• 43:45
  Go but have a gentle heart and a grace driven heart and go we're
• 43:51
  you know, we're so sorry that we're losing you.
• 43:55
  Can we talk to you about this? Like what is going on?
• 43:59
  Be inquisitive, yeah, rather than disowning or even.
• 44:04
  When somebody has a different belief or a different opinion,
• 44:07
  or they're, they're trying to bring it to you and they're
• 44:10
  like, hey, so this is what God's telling me and it's OK, for the
• 44:15
  record, we're not all going to believe the same thing.
• 44:17
  No, no, we're not. Like no one is going to have the
• 44:20
  exact same beliefs. Like that's just not, that's not
• 44:24
  life. We all have different
• 44:26
  experiences which shape our perspectives.
• 44:28
  Like it's just not going to happen and we have to be OK as
• 44:33
  Christians. The the most powerful thing that
• 44:36
  I have learned in my life, that has been the most freeing thing,
• 44:39
  is letting go of the need to be right.
• 44:42
  Oh, 100% so good. Yes, yes, like that.
• 44:46
  In and of itself, like you don't have to be right.
• 44:49
  No, no, that's. Not the point.
• 44:51
  It's not the. Point.
• 44:52
  It's not the point. That's not even the point.
• 44:54
  That's not even the point for a pastor.
• 44:57
  No, no, the point is to love, right?
• 45:00
  And that. Looks like something, you know
• 45:03
  what I mean? Like, yeah, that's, that's the
• 45:07
  whole point of it all. I and I, I'm not sure that if
• 45:12
  Jesus were walking around now, I'm not sure that he would be
• 45:15
  happy with our current model of what church looks like.
• 45:19
  Yeah, I don't know. It's for the wounded.
• 45:22
  Yeah, yeah, it's for the broken I there's a.
• 45:26
  Shirt that I see on social media a lot says Paul would be writing
• 45:30
  us some letters right now yeah we would we would be getting
• 45:35
  some letters I think we get. Caught up and I think it's in
• 45:38
  our human nature, to be honest, the control aspect.
• 45:43
  I think a lot of times we get caught up in control.
• 45:46
  Like, I think about how judgmental I used to be and the
• 45:49
  hurtful things that I said to people that I loved and family
• 45:53
  members because they didn't believe or live the way that I
• 45:56
  thought they should. Why?
• 45:58
  Because I'd be. From a place of love like it is,
• 46:01
  yes, but it was a. Place of nation it was a
• 46:04
  condemnation and self righteousness right and that's
• 46:09
  that's. We've lost the plot.
• 46:12
  You know, we've lost the plot and I feel like a lot of times
• 46:17
  when we're met with things that we don't agree with, we don't
• 46:22
  know how to be like, hey, that's OK, you can believe that.
• 46:27
  That's totally fine. Not for me, but that's, you know
• 46:31
  what I mean? I feel like Christians have the
• 46:33
  hardest time doing that. Well, I would say this too, and
• 46:36
  this is just something I've been learning with my walk with Jesus
• 46:41
  and and I don't know, past five years, I mean, I've had a walk
• 46:45
  with Jesus more than that. But like, do you right is that
• 46:51
  Jesus never forces us to do anything.
• 46:55
  Exactly. And if the God of the universe
• 46:59
  doesn't force me to believe in him, then no one.
• 47:02
  I should not be forced by anyone else to believe a certain way.
• 47:08
  Like so like that's how I look at it.
• 47:12
  Like if the God of the universe that created me doesn't force
• 47:17
  me, he's asking me to choose and with him.
• 47:22
  Then that is. How we should all work show up
• 47:24
  in the world, right and not with condemnation yeah.
• 47:31
  Now there's some, you know, very simple things that do to you
• 47:35
  know, God would not talk right, right.
• 47:37
  There's certain things but and those are in the Bible, right.
• 47:43
  That was like exactly right. It's not our opinion.
• 47:45
  It's not us using that that's looking to the word of God and
• 47:49
  going, oh, OK, you know, and, and I, yeah, because people can
• 47:54
  take that and go, Oh, well then then I have the right to condemn
• 47:58
  you for this or condemn you for that.
• 48:00
  Now I'm talking about in the Bible, like we're always
• 48:03
  circling back to God's word, not our word, right, right.
• 48:10
  With that, though, I talk to me about what you, because you said
• 48:15
  we need to do better. What you've already touched on
• 48:18
  some things we need to do better.
• 48:20
  And what else would would you say we could do better and.
• 48:30
  That would that would have helped you like no, I'm not just
• 48:33
  saying like, oh, let me you know, I don't know in this.
• 48:36
  Specific instant, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 48:41
  Gosh, just kind of realizing that we all have different paths
• 48:46
  that we're walking. We all have our own different
• 48:49
  lives, right? You know, like I said, I feel
• 48:55
  like the, the control and the need to be right is, is a, a
• 49:02
  leading factor for a lot of things, right?
• 49:07
  But we also need to meet people where they're at.
• 49:09
  We need to understand it's so popular now to say, oh, they
• 49:14
  have victim mentality all they have victim mentality.
• 49:16
  Well, well, maybe they were a victim.
• 49:19
  They have that. Mentality because of something
• 49:21
  that happened to them, right and.
• 49:24
  Listen, there are times where. I get as annoyed as the next
• 49:26
  person with people having that mentality at times, but if they
• 49:34
  could get out of that, if they saw themselves in that, they,
• 49:37
  they wouldn't be doing it. You know what I mean?
• 49:39
  Like are they felt? More understood, yes, passion,
• 49:43
  yes and like. Our pastor has a saying that we
• 49:47
  are badly broken or it's it's the confession in our churches.
• 49:50
  We are badly broken, but we are deeply loved so just.
• 49:55
  Coming to the realization. That we're all broken.
• 49:59
  But the solution to that is we're deeply loved.
• 50:05
  So true. And we have to.
• 50:06
  Just look at others from that perspective of that should be at
• 50:14
  the forefront of everything that we do.
• 50:17
  Love. Yeah.
• 50:18
  Because just this is my own perspective of your story is
• 50:23
  that a lot of things happened out of fear.
• 50:27
  Yeah, right. Yeah.
• 50:28
  And when we react or respond, even in my own life recently,
• 50:38
  I've seen this from a place of fear.
• 50:40
  And we don't always know that it's a place.
• 50:42
  Of fear, right? Yeah.
• 50:43
  It's almost like an instinct, right?
• 50:45
  But if we pause. Long.
• 50:48
  Enough, especially when we're hurts to to go.
• 50:53
  Oh wow, is am I doing this from a place of fear or a place of
• 50:59
  love, right, That for me, my own personal like things that have
• 51:06
  come up lately for me, I've had to step back and go, oh, am I
• 51:10
  doing this from a place of love? Because sometimes, and I know
• 51:14
  you probably get this as a parents, and I would think as a
• 51:17
  pastor, he probably feels like a parent of right.
• 51:21
  Yeah, right, right. And we, we often go, oh, but
• 51:24
  I'm, I'm doing that from a place of love.
• 51:28
  But recently I've had in my own face with my daughter going
• 51:34
  maybe that is really a place of fear that is I'm shrouding in
• 51:39
  that's from love. Like, because, because I love
• 51:42
  her so much, I'm protecting her, loving her.
• 51:46
  But if I, if I pause for a minute and I, and I only
• 51:49
  mentioned this because I think it, it's very similar, but if I
• 51:53
  pause and I really look at what I'm doing and why I'm doing it,
• 51:57
  I, I go, oh, that's because I'm scared, right?
• 52:02
  Yeah. And I so I think to your point
• 52:06
  being like stop working from a place of being fearful, but more
• 52:15
  towards a place of, of love like you.
• 52:18
  That was what you said. Like coming from a place of
• 52:20
  love. And I think so.
• 52:21
  Many times we get love and fear. Yeah, mixed up.
• 52:27
  Yeah, it's so. Easy.
• 52:28
  Especially when we feel that we need to protect something.
• 52:31
  Yeah, or someone. Right or like in you know,
• 52:35
  pastors take it as a threat, you know, and and it's.
• 52:41
  Yeah, and I couldn't imagine. I've never been a pastor.
• 52:43
  I couldn't walk in those shoes. How difficult that line is to to
• 52:47
  walk, you know, trying to protect your your congregation
• 52:53
  and. Walk.
• 52:56
  Out things but there are things that you know that even pastors
• 53:01
  get wrong that you know you got it you got it and and they need
• 53:05
  to humble themselves and and go hey I got that wrong you know
• 53:11
  please pray for me and help me get that better next time Yeah
• 53:15
  so so acting from a place of love you were saying and then
• 53:23
  what else what I what are some other things that.
• 53:27
  I mean, in my situation, let's not, let's not take our personal
• 53:33
  affairs behind the pulpit, you know, and use people as punch
• 53:37
  lines and use people as ammo, right?
• 53:41
  Or one liners for things or getting your jobs in kind of
• 53:46
  thing. You don't make private matters
• 53:47
  public. Yeah, yeah.
• 53:51
  You know, I feel. Like a lot of times pastors
• 53:53
  have, or in my experience, there can be hidden motives behind
• 53:57
  some of the things that they say.
• 53:58
  Like they're, they're wanting a certain person to hear a certain
• 54:03
  thing, right? You know what I mean?
• 54:06
  So they say so. Try to use it as a lesson, but
• 54:11
  it but maybe it's it's never going to yes, never going to go
• 54:14
  the way you want it to. Not a proper usage.
• 54:17
  It's going to go the opposite every time.
• 54:20
  It's going to, yeah. It's going to do the opposite of
• 54:23
  your intent for sure. Well, I want to.
• 54:26
  Say that I'm so sorry that that happened to you and that it
• 54:30
  does, but it sounds like you it you didn't lose your faith.
• 54:35
  No, you. You've.
• 54:36
  Stayed. Stayed If if nothing else, maybe
• 54:39
  it built a closer relationship with you and the Lord.
• 54:43
  It sounds like and your husband like your own personal
• 54:46
  relationships. What do you feel?
• 54:51
  Do you feel like you'll ever be able to overcome?
• 54:57
  You're hesitant or you're not wanting to be in church
• 55:03
  community help. Oh gosh, that's tough, right?
• 55:09
  Is it done that you're you're trying to work on and you're
• 55:12
  like, I'm not there yet? I'm definitely not there yet.
• 55:17
  I see why people get so turned away from even going to church.
• 55:20
  I very much see that I have an example to set for my kids.
• 55:26
  But. I very much understand why
• 55:29
  people are just like I'm good, right?
• 55:33
  Like I can I can have God on my couch.
• 55:37
  Yeah, I very much understand and I'm not defending any of that
• 55:40
  right. Like this is coming from hurt.
• 55:44
  OK. And I acknowledge that I, I hope
• 55:53
  and I will say living in a bigger town, dynamics are very
• 56:00
  different. I can already.
• 56:01
  Tell dynamics are very different in church.
• 56:04
  I do like being there and not a single person knowing me and
• 56:11
  being under being able to fly under the radar at the moment
• 56:15
  because everywhere I've gone I've people knew.
• 56:20
  You. Yeah, I get that because I, like
• 56:23
  I said, I grew up in a small town too, where people knew,
• 56:27
  knew you walking in the door, knew your family.
• 56:29
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But also I feel that way right
• 56:32
  now because I'm like, well if I left nobody would notice.
• 56:36
  If I. If I were to leave this church
• 56:38
  and go to a different one, no one's going to notice, no one's
• 56:40
  going to be offended, no one's going to think I'm doing
• 56:43
  something wrong, OK? OK, I see.
• 56:46
  And that encourages you not to connect?
• 56:49
  Yes, and. If I don't connect, I can't get
• 56:51
  hurt, Yeah, Nobody's going to talk about me behind my back.
• 56:54
  Nobody's going to pull back from me if I don't make the
• 56:58
  connection to begin with. There's no way to distance.
• 57:02
  Yeah, you know, and I understand that because I will say that
• 57:05
  growing up in that small town, like it took me a long time to
• 57:09
  really. Probably.
• 57:13
  Go back to churches and that those being some of the reasons.
• 57:19
  I will say though, on a more positive note that here in New
• 57:25
  Braunfels, I've been to a couple of churches and in Spring Branch
• 57:30
  and I've been able to connect and and get involved and pray
• 57:37
  about that, like pray where I'm supposed to be connected,
• 57:40
  involved, but not feel. It's.
• 57:49
  Not the same as the small town getting yeah, you can plug in,
• 57:53
  you can connect, you can help out and then and then I mean,
• 58:03
  but but you're not like tied to them, right.
• 58:07
  So I will give you some encouragement of that.
• 58:09
  I know it's going to take some time for you, but.
• 58:13
  I've been. To a couple of churches around
• 58:16
  that you can get involved in help and then you're not my
• 58:23
  whole thing died, but you're not like, I don't know, I'm tired to
• 58:31
  them. And they don't like, say you
• 58:33
  don't help out with one thing or you don't show up to this other
• 58:36
  thing. They don't like.
• 58:38
  You're not ostracized, you know, or manipulated.
• 58:41
  Yeah, Yeah, right. That's a big thing.
• 58:43
  You're not treated as if like, Oh my gosh, you didn't do that.
• 58:48
  Now that's speaking from someone that just gets involved in like
• 58:53
  helping out with the Bible studies ever like kind of
• 59:00
  extracurricular. So that I would say like and I
• 59:05
  know you're healing and you'll get there, but don't keep it off
• 59:09
  the table. Maybe you just have to pray to
• 59:12
  and ask the Lord like how? Can I get?
• 59:15
  Connected where I don't feel like I'm going to be wounded.
• 59:19
  Right? Yeah.
• 59:21
  Like maybe there's a small thing like I went with the church and
• 59:26
  I helped with helping teenage moms with their babies.
• 59:32
  So I did that, you know, like the different law outreaches
• 59:36
  that that you're not like completely plugged in because a
• 59:42
  lot of like the churches I've been to, I was just trying them
• 59:45
  out and seeing like as do I do I want to be involved?
• 59:50
  Sounds like you have a church that you're going to
• 59:53
  consistently, but just to encourage you in that, but it's
• 59:59
  in your own time. And most importantly, I would
• 1:00:03
  say asking the Lord for guidance and listen to him because I
• 1:00:09
  think coming from a small town, yeah, you feel obligated, like,
• 1:00:14
  oh, I got it. I got to be like.
• 1:00:17
  Teaching children's church, right?
• 1:00:20
  Because yeah, right. But.
• 1:00:22
  That, and that's just an example, but you don't like, you
• 1:00:27
  don't have to. And when you get into different
• 1:00:29
  communities and bigger communities and different
• 1:00:31
  churches, you can show up in different ways, right?
• 1:00:34
  Yeah. Because my thoughts are
• 1:00:36
  immediately like, OK, well, you know, the, they, there's an
• 1:00:40
  expectation when you make these friendships or whatever.
• 1:00:43
  There's an expectation. And if you differ from what they
• 1:00:47
  think and you view something differently than they view, it's
• 1:00:50
  like there's judgment there. Whereas making friends outside
• 1:00:53
  of church, there's no judgment there.
• 1:00:55
  Like, why are we so. Yeah.
• 1:00:57
  Why do we give so much grace to people outside of church?
• 1:00:59
  But if we're within that family, all of a sudden it's like, well,
• 1:01:05
  I don't know about that, but yet you'll be.
• 1:01:07
  If I weren't attending that church with you and was outside
• 1:01:10
  of it, you'd have no problem being friends.
• 1:01:12
  Like, it's just a weird dynamic. You know what I mean?
• 1:01:15
  Yeah. But, yeah, I mean that, yeah,
• 1:01:20
  that is a good question to ask your church if you start feeling
• 1:01:23
  that way, like, right, You can ask those hard questions.
• 1:01:27
  Yeah. I mean, and be like, well, you
• 1:01:30
  know, if I was not a member of this church, then would you
• 1:01:35
  treat me that same way? Yeah.
• 1:01:38
  And I. Know in this community I love
• 1:01:44
  going to Bible studies and and getting together with
• 1:01:48
  individuals that are from multiple or churches.
• 1:01:51
  Yeah yeah that's that's cool yeah so they definitely have
• 1:01:55
  that here. I just I'm just thinking of how
• 1:01:59
  to like connect and and you be able to grow and not feel that
• 1:02:03
  yeah yeah that vulnerability right.
• 1:02:06
  There are lots of Bible study groups or even maybe it's not a
• 1:02:14
  Bible study, but like just fellowship and getting together
• 1:02:17
  that from and from communities here that they're all Christians
• 1:02:23
  and they come together from different churches so that that
• 1:02:26
  is available here and I could give you some connections to
• 1:02:30
  that. I've lost my questions, but is
• 1:02:34
  there, is there anything else that you would like to talk
• 1:02:39
  about in regards to? I don't know, we talked about
• 1:02:43
  kind of small town dynamics, specific church hurt in regards
• 1:02:51
  to leaving churches. Yeah.
• 1:02:55
  And then kind of right how you are right now, you're a little
• 1:03:00
  bit cautious. You are still continuing your
• 1:03:03
  walk with the Lord, which is so important, but you're a little
• 1:03:06
  bit more cautious. Is there anything else you would
• 1:03:09
  like to share? Like maybe how you are
• 1:03:17
  connecting with your children in regards to this?
• 1:03:20
  Or are you teaching them some things?
• 1:03:21
  And I know that maybe wasn't on your list of and.
• 1:03:24
  That's tough, right? To to shield your kids from what
• 1:03:28
  you've had to go through. That's tough.
• 1:03:30
  And teach them the. Lessons without the bitterness,
• 1:03:33
  right? Exactly.
• 1:03:35
  That's it's tough. It's tough.
• 1:03:39
  Like I said, setting an example for them by we got to walk the
• 1:03:45
  walk, you know what I mean? It's been an interesting
• 1:03:51
  dynamic. I'm not going to pretend like
• 1:03:54
  things have been just amazing. We're like, you know what I
• 1:03:57
  mean? Like there had been times where
• 1:04:01
  it's like I don't. Feel like going to church?
• 1:04:06
  And I can't let them see that, you know what I mean?
• 1:04:10
  Like. Or you could.
• 1:04:12
  And and say I'm going to go anyway, like a lot of times just
• 1:04:16
  from my walk through grief with Athena, I'd be vulnerable with
• 1:04:20
  her because you I bet this is my two cents and it's my podcast.
• 1:04:25
  So I could get is like letting them.
• 1:04:30
  They're like, hey, you know, I really don't feel like going to
• 1:04:33
  church today, but you know what? I'm going to do it anyway.
• 1:04:37
  Or we're going to worship the Lord in a different way today,
• 1:04:41
  right? Because I think our kids, our
• 1:04:45
  children need to know that we're human, too.
• 1:04:48
  Yeah. Yeah, and I mean and I've.
• 1:04:50
  Walked that path with Athena. Did I always want her to hear
• 1:04:54
  all my like oh the world is falling apart.
• 1:04:57
  But it did let her know like. I'm having a.
• 1:05:01
  Hard day. This is life.
• 1:05:02
  Yeah, kind of thing. Yeah, it's been real interesting
• 1:05:05
  to see Jesus through the eyes of our kids.
• 1:05:10
  Oh. Share us Share some of that.
• 1:05:14
  That's, oh gosh, something. That my 12 year old, he was
• 1:05:20
  probably 9 or 10 at the time. And like I said, we have been
• 1:05:27
  asking some really hard questions for the past five or
• 1:05:29
  six years, OK. And this was in the middle of us
• 1:05:34
  just contemplating what some things were in, in, in the
• 1:05:38
  Bible. And I believe we, my husband
• 1:05:43
  specifically asked him like, Hey, so what's your take on the
• 1:05:53
  flood of Noah? Like the flood?
• 1:05:56
  Do you think that God did that? And he said.
• 1:06:03
  No. Oh, your.
• 1:06:05
  Your husband was asking your son and he was like.
• 1:06:10
  Well, why do you why do you think that?
• 1:06:13
  And he said, well, because God is good and he's a good father,
• 1:06:22
  so why would he send a flood to kill everybody?
• 1:06:28
  And my husband said, but the Bible says that God sent the
• 1:06:35
  flood for 40 days and 40 nights. And my son said, no, the Bible
• 1:06:39
  doesn't say that. How about God knew it was going
• 1:06:44
  to rain for 40 days and 40 nights and he sent Noah to build
• 1:06:48
  something for everybody to be saved and they didn't listen?
• 1:06:54
  Yeah, he didn't tell them like Noah was worrying me and when I
• 1:06:58
  tell you that. We were both taken aback, and
• 1:07:03
  that's what I'm saying, Like the things that we have always been
• 1:07:06
  taught that we can't even see in front of our eyes, that things
• 1:07:11
  are not always what they seem as we've interpreted them, right?
• 1:07:15
  Well, that's true because we've always been told a certain way,
• 1:07:18
  Yeah. Like, yeah, that's good to get a
• 1:07:21
  like, a child's perspective on this.
• 1:07:23
  It's really good like. How in a God that tells us not
• 1:07:27
  to murder. That's a whole nut.
• 1:07:31
  Yeah, that's a that's a deep thing.
• 1:07:33
  That's not for today. No, that's a deep thing.
• 1:07:36
  But that's just one of the examples.
• 1:07:38
  No, I. I yeah, and he did well.
• 1:07:42
  So this is was always placed on my heart because we live in a
• 1:07:46
  fallen, broken world, right? And like we talked about other
• 1:07:53
  earlier, God doesn't force us to do anything.
• 1:07:56
  He gives us choices. Does he know that we're probably
• 1:08:00
  going to make the wrong, stupid choice?
• 1:08:03
  Yeah. But he gives us choices.
• 1:08:05
  He gives us ways out. And and like the case of Noah,
• 1:08:12
  like he, he, he, Noah built the ship.
• 1:08:16
  He warned the people that the floods were coming.
• 1:08:20
  Did God know that you know? Did you know what's going to?
• 1:08:23
  Happen. Sure.
• 1:08:23
  And then did he? Know that they would most more
• 1:08:26
  than likely not listen like but God gives us choices yeah and I
• 1:08:31
  think that is like made away even though they chose.
• 1:08:34
  Not right. He made away right.
• 1:08:35
  So it's. And I think where I was lost, my
• 1:08:40
  train of thought where I was going with that, but where I was
• 1:08:42
  going with that is like we always have to face the
• 1:08:45
  consequences of our decisions and choices.
• 1:08:48
  And God never said he would take that away from us, right?
• 1:08:51
  Right. Unlike he gave us free will and
• 1:08:53
  then and then also he. That means that we have to face
• 1:08:57
  the consequences of our free will, right?
• 1:09:00
  Reap what you sow, right? So I think that that is
• 1:09:05
  sometimes we forget that. And I don't know if about you,
• 1:09:10
  but sometimes I don't want to deal with that, right.
• 1:09:12
  I don't want to deal with the consequences of my choices in
• 1:09:15
  the small things that we don't realize, like, oh, Oh yeah, I
• 1:09:20
  guess I did choose to do that and I am having to face the
• 1:09:24
  consequences. Yeah.
• 1:09:25
  Right. So I, I think as I as humans,
• 1:09:31
  that it's hard for us to deal with that.
• 1:09:33
  Yeah. And I know I sometimes get
• 1:09:36
  frustrated because I'm like, I just wish you would like take my
• 1:09:40
  free will away. I don't need to choose.
• 1:09:43
  That. But now I I love that as we are
• 1:09:45
  talking about just a child's perspective and children can
• 1:09:51
  like allow us to see something different because they don't
• 1:09:55
  have a. Lens, right?
• 1:09:57
  I mean in. In the Bible it says to come to
• 1:10:00
  the Lord like little children, right, Because they haven't
• 1:10:04
  been, you know, like molded and pressured.
• 1:10:12
  They're they're just beginning and right.
• 1:10:15
  Yeah, we're very. Careful to ask our kids instead
• 1:10:18
  of tell in that regard. What do you think of this?
• 1:10:22
  What is what does this mean to you?
• 1:10:24
  What do you think about God with this instead of being like no,
• 1:10:27
  this and this and this and it? No, Yeah.
• 1:10:30
  No. Oh, that's really good.
• 1:10:32
  Yeah, because a lot of times their answer will shock you and
• 1:10:35
  teach you. Oh.
• 1:10:37
  I love that because like when Athena was little, same thing,
• 1:10:44
  same premise. I did not want to force her to
• 1:10:47
  believe in any one way. Did I make it available to her?
• 1:10:54
  Yeah, but it was very intentional with me and my late
• 1:10:58
  husband Andy, to present information to her and allow her
• 1:11:04
  to take it in, but not force it on her and say this is what
• 1:11:09
  you're supposed to believe. Right.
• 1:11:11
  Great. I mean, granted, we made sure
• 1:11:14
  that it was coming from a, you know, a legitimate place.
• 1:11:18
  Yeah. No, it's.
• 1:11:19
  Not a free fall, right? But.
• 1:11:23
  But I so I had that with Athena too, when she was little.
• 1:11:28
  And I will say it went early, early I I was from a fearful
• 1:11:34
  place and I was like, oh goodness.
• 1:11:36
  Like I don't want to teach her anything yet because I don't
• 1:11:41
  want to. I want her to have that free
• 1:11:43
  choice and understanding. So because they they.
• 1:11:47
  Face that at some point in their life, I.
• 1:11:49
  Do understand where you're coming from and that and then
• 1:11:52
  and like you've taken what a beautiful lesson that you have
• 1:11:57
  learned. Like let's ask, let's have
• 1:11:58
  conversation and and then your children are going to be more
• 1:12:02
  interested to you because you're asking them questions and asking
• 1:12:07
  them like how they feel or think about something rather than
• 1:12:11
  telling them, which is so huge, right?
• 1:12:16
  I, I mean, that is like, how many times in the Bible does God
• 1:12:20
  ask questions when he's interacting or healing people?
• 1:12:26
  You know, do you want to be healed?
• 1:12:28
  Not I can heal you, but don't you know, right, it's just so
• 1:12:34
  many. I mean, so that's, I love that.
• 1:12:37
  I love that you're doing that with your kids that you're
• 1:12:39
  asking them. And it also allows you to hear
• 1:12:42
  what they, what they've been told, right?
• 1:12:45
  Like what's going on in the world.
• 1:12:49
  So, well, thank you. Anything else you want to share
• 1:12:53
  with us? I mean, I think that's
• 1:12:55
  beautiful, walking with your kids and getting deeper and
• 1:12:59
  asking them like how they're seeing and what they have been
• 1:13:05
  taught. Right.
• 1:13:08
  I think so many times we don't ask questions, we just assume or
• 1:13:14
  tell. It sounds like that that led to
• 1:13:18
  some of your church hurt against.
• 1:13:21
  Yeah yeah. Rather than asking me questions
• 1:13:23
  and yeah I'm trying to understand why you're doing what
• 1:13:26
  you're doing right. Assumed and more hurt and coming
• 1:13:29
  from a place of fear yeah. And anger sounds, I think if we
• 1:13:33
  all just. Kind of take a step back and
• 1:13:35
  realize that everybody's doing the best that they can with the
• 1:13:37
  information they have. And that can be said with what I
• 1:13:41
  went through, like to the people that did that to me, right?
• 1:13:45
  We're all doing the best we can with what information we have
• 1:13:47
  and what we know. And I and I do recognize that
• 1:13:51
  like. You know, Yeah, Yeah.
• 1:13:55
  Well, thank you so much for being here today.
• 1:13:57
  Thank you for having me talking to me.
• 1:14:01
  And I, I can connect you with some Bible studies that are from
• 1:14:04
  churches all over if you want. And thanks everyone for tuning
• 1:14:09
  in and listening to Megan and her particular story and her and
• 1:14:18
  just how she's grown. If, if you feel that this would
• 1:14:22
  be helpful to anyone in your life, please share it.
• 1:14:25
  Tune back in. Well, I have started doing
• 1:14:29
  podcast every other Tuesday now. Just a heads up.
• 1:14:32
  I put it out there yesterday, but I am going to start
• 1:14:36
  recording and then put putting out my new episodes every other
• 1:14:40
  Tuesday. It just seems to work out better
• 1:14:43
  for my life and for interview, like when I have people that I
• 1:14:49
  do interviews with, it gives them a little bit more time to
• 1:14:52
  prepare and just giving everyone a heads up.
• 1:14:55
  But thanks for tuning in to carry forward.
• 1:14:59
  Check out all of Military Broadcast Radio's podcast,
• 1:15:02
  please. And yes, just thank you so much
• 1:15:06
  for being here today. Hi I'm.
• 1:15:08
  Baker with Military Broadcast Radio TV.
• 1:15:11
  We're your virtual MWR bringing veterans radio, podcasts,
• 1:15:16
  gaming, animation, 3D printing and community that never leaves
• 1:15:20
  you behind. Download our Roku or mobile app
• 1:15:23
  today.