Latest / Living Uncertain an OCD Podcast / Growth and Connections (OCD)(Episode 23)

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Growth and Connections (OCD)(Episode 23) · Living Uncertain an OCD Podcast

• Opening: Hello, and welcome to the podcast, Living Uncertain. This podcast is dedicated to obsessive compulsive disorder, OCD, and the primary treatment, exposure response prevention, ERP. OCD comes in many forms, such as contamination, perfectionism, checking, harm, superstitious, religious or moral, sexual orientation, and or relationship. ERP is the gold standard to treating OCD. and it focuses on deliberately confronting fears, the exposure, while refraining from compulsive rituals, the response prevention. With repeated exposures and without engaging in compulsions, we learn to tolerate anxiety and break the cycle of intrusive thoughts. We are a married couple that have faced both the challenges of OCD and the incredible healing that ERP can provide to your marriage, family, and your home. As a person who lives with OCD, I am much more than this diagnosis. We all can be. Marc and Stacee: Hi, y'all. I'm Stacey. And along with my husband Mark, thank you for living uncertain with us. Welcome to our podcast. As everyone knows by now, it is where we talk all things OCD and ERP related. And we're so excited to have you join us for episode number 23, where we're going to talk about the speed in which progress can be made in some of the speed bumps to anticipate while doing therapy. And all of those pieces coming from both. The individual who has OCD, and of course, is always the spouse's perspective as well. So, one of the things I've been noticing, or I noticed when Stacy was diagnosed with OCD, one of the things that most people tend to do is I'm gonna go and try to find out more information about it. and you know, so I had joined a couple of Facebook groups that we're spouses of somebody or significant other of somebody that has OCD. And and I still belong to to a couple of them. And but one of the the pieces that comes up on a regular basis that I have noticed is that individuals know that they have OCD, but their significant other is is living with that person, and that person might not necessarily be in treatment or potentially could be in treatment, but the speed or the progress that they're making might not be as adequate as that person that is that does not have OCD might be feeling is not there. So it puts a strain on their relationship. Sure. And I see a lot of them like, what do I do? Should I leave? You know, this person, I love the person, but you know, the the OCD is becoming really hard. I can't do this or I can't do that. I feel like I'm trapped and You know, and then you and I are not therapists at all. No. You know, and and a lot of the people on these these Facebook groups are not therapists either. They're just r you know, people living with somebody with OCD, and it's become very taxing on them. you and I was very different. You know, when A when we first got married or even the past five, ten years, really didn't know what it was. Right. And it wasn't It it was taxing for me in the the sense that we've talked about the driving and the the appointments and stuff, having to make them for the kids and bringing them to the appointments because of of your driving. But I really didn't know about the the the death one as much. Where we had our bigger issues was like trips. Yeah. That's that's where where I saw it. Or or the checking, but the checking in and the reassurance seeking became so normalized for us though. Mm-hmm. And and I think by trade, you know, I'm a pretty patient person. Mm-hmm. You are. And and I think that helped us. I didn't really lose my cool when you were checking in very much. I mean, there's I get frustrated, but not like to the point of like, God, I'm I'm just done with this constant checking. You know, I wanna leave, or it felt like I was trapped. The times that I think you and I really would butt heads was around when around the business. Mm-hmm. That's when it really became challenging. Yes. Because it meant the success of the business or not. Right. You know, so you're the one that has the O C D. And you you started doing therapy. Mm-hmm. When did you like realize that you needed to go through some type of ERP? Well, I Or why did you decide? Yeah. I mean, I think that those are more complex questions to answer because given our journey, which we have kind of documented throughout this podcast and in the different episodes, there was Some of it that I I recognized I needed to do ERP. And then there was the catalyst of the the day that we had that then pushed me further into ERP in a in all the best of ways. So, you know, I was a I was late to be diagnosed. It wasn't diagnosed until my mid-40s. By that time you and I had kind of done this little dance, if you will, with all of the idiosyncrasies of my OCD. And it became so normalized for us that we didn't really think about it. In those terms, I never thought of myself as having OCD really until I got the diagnosis. Then once I got it, I was very prepared at that moment to jump into ERP. I knew it was gonna be challenging and difficult. And and at the time I was kind of doing it alone with just my therapist and myself. Yeah. And we were kind of talking a lot about the psychoeducation of of OCD and what ERP did and what it was meant for and how it helped to kind of reframe your brain. And and help the OCD symptomology. Yeah. The education was big. So I started there. I was very excited to to do that part. And then I knew we would have to do some ERP. So I started. But I at the time it was what back in January of twenty twenty five? Yeah. And so maybe December. Maybe December of twenty twenty four into twenty twenty five, into the new year. And I have a regular scheduled appointment with our therapist once a week. Once a week for an hour, perhaps 90 minutes. And okay, I'm gonna go into this ERP thing. And so I did. And it was, it was scary and challenging and I didn't love it, but I knew that I I wanted to to do something different. And we had a business, we had two kids, we had all these things going. I thought, this is it's now or never for me. I've got to figure this out. So I started doing it once a week and I started doing the exposures. And then that's when our therapist thought, Okay, let's bring Mark in for a ne for a a session. Like this was not even a thing where you were gonna then be a big part of it as you have been now. But let's bring him in for a session, let's show him what we're doing, let's teach him a little more of what it is. And I and I read You mean you and I were just talking about it before the episode and You know, trying to figure out our the timeline of when you really started ERP and and you started your ERP around death. Mm-hmm. But but at that point your O C D was it was negatively impacting our life, but not to the point that it was stopping our life from moving forward. It was it was going that direction though. absolutely. But But it but we were still trying to maintain We maintaining. We were still maintaining. And then Came February nineteenth, right? Of twenty twenty five. And that's where we started this podcast. That's the first episode. That was the day of all days where everything kind of went dark, so to speak. And we officially closed one door to a chapter and opened another. But prior to that though. It was that day that I was pushed into doing more intensive ERP. And I think that's the part that is so important to talk about when it's when we're talking about the speed of progress in therapy, or we're talking about giving one another grace and and time and patience in the process of ERP. And that's so important to do and to have both with the person who has OCD and the spouse or significant other of that person. And so again, I went with my once a week and I was doing it and it was okay. And I knew I had to carry some of that over into home life, et cetera. But we weren't sure how to just yet. And we were still trying to maintain the business. And and things in the business were getting tackier and tougher and trickier throughout that month of January and into early February. And so and with and when within that time though, was the time that I remember those con the the conversations like look, you you need more than just the therapy. well yes. Okay. And that and that one, I think that was the con that was the hard conversation, which was about med meds having getting on meds. SSRIs, yes. And so But for you with the meds, you you always felt like and this is where that ERP and the meds and stuff became a really issue because if I take this medication, I'm gonna die. Correct. That's where your mind went. But yes, it that became kind of a friction piece with us, but it also became of a for me it's like you're gonna have to do this or something else is gonna have to change with our relationship. Right. And so I started. But I had to make the appointment first for you. You wouldn't even do that. I went to the point that's well yes, you did. Okay. I know. I know I I went to the point to making you the appointment, bringing you the appointment. Sitting still in that appointment with you. Yes. As well. One hundred percent. Not that I was trying to control you. No, I then it didn't feel like that. It felt like I needed I needed you in that moment because I couldn't think clearly, I couldn't see clearly, I couldn't do anything. And so I needed that support. So I went on the meds. So at that point with the medication check, I think you're as if you went from zero to a hundred and February nineteenth was the hundred. Mm-hmm. You were probably sitting at about a seventy-five percent at that point. Seventy five, eighty. Yeah, I was right there. I was right there. I was getting close to the breakdown. Yeah. The the mental breakdown that I finally had, where yeah, the world went dark for a little while. Yes. And the in your physician that prescribed your medication prescribed you two different types of medication. One for the anxiety and one for the depression. Right. Which which the one for the depression. That's typically for, and I say this with finger quotations, typically for depression is also used with patients who have OCD to try to counteract some of those intrusive thoughts, et cetera, and need for compulsions. So that's why it was thought at the time that would be the best medication. And then let's go on this anti-anxiety, and then let's have another anti-anxiety, which was the Adavan, which I actually have never did didn't necessarily need to take or haven't had to take now. But that was for those important like emergency. Here's that emergency moment. I should have taken one of those on February 19th and I did not. And we went about approaching our life a little different way. Yeah. And and I'm not regretful of that either necessarily, because when we closed the door, we opened up this brand new one that's just been The light of our life at this point and has been the best thing that we could have ever done for each other, for our marriage, our family, our professional goals down the road. So I'm glad that we walked away. I'm glad that absolutely. I'm sad it. I'm I'm saddened that it went the way it did, but I don't regret closing that door necessarily. But yes, I'm on the the medication, the SSRIs. And then I'm also. was getting into the ERP. Now just getting into it. Now once that day hit, then it became okay, no, you can't just do the one time a week anymore. Now you're you're an IOP, which is an inpatient which is a outpatient. No intensive out IOP, yes, thank you. Is the in pay the intensive outpatient services, therapy services. And that was what was recommended, highly recommended. In order for me to there was not a lot of option there. In order for me to continue with our therapist, in order for me to continue and make the most progress that I could. So at at that moment, that day, I was on on the phone with her, and we you were basically we basically had three options. Option number one is you go into residential treatment. Mm-hmm. for X number of days, whatever long they needed to keep you in there for. Seven days. Minimum. Usually. and I think at the level that you were at was probably would have been a little bit longer. Option two was do the you know, intensive outpatient. Mm-hmm. Or option three, lose the ability to be with your therapist. Mm-hmm. And fly solo. And fly solo or potentially have to be eventually committed. Yeah. That was that would have been voluntary treatment. That would have been the fourth option that I would have had to have come to the decision of. Which I didn't want to. You and I talked about that. Mm-hmm. And we talked about you if you ever got to that point that you would do it voluntary. Mm-hmm. Now you you when we went to the the hospital, you you got to the in you got to the room and and then I know but we all came to an agreement on We came to an agreement, we made a plan. Yeah. We made a course of action treatment plan and it I had to be heavily monitored for a little while under that plan in order for it to go through. Yeah. And then and then we started basic because that was a Wednesday and then we basically started therapy. On that Monday. Mm-hmm. It w it was that quick. And we did the intensive outpatient. And there I was in it. And you were in it right alongside me. Six to eight hours a week for a period of I think we did it. Yes, with therapy. In patient in person. Yeah. In person. Seeing her therapy six to eight hours a week. And I believe we were we did that for at least eight to ten weeks. Yeah. Yeah. It was it was definitely two months. And then we went down. Yes. We ramped down because you're ramped it down because now thankfully I have made progress, but we were doing that intensive. And then we were carrying it over into the home. And we were carrying it into the home with more fidelity with ERP because I had you. Yeah. And I would not have made any pro I would not have made half the progress that I've made without you. I would not have made the progress I have made without our therapist. I don't want to discount. Her in this process as well. She's been imperative to how our family has is and is functioning so much better now. I have so much gratitude. I know you do too. So much gratitude for her. And yet, had we not had you in those sessions with us, I still I would have made progress, yes, but I wouldn't have made as much. So again, I account my speed of progress to two factors, one of which is I did the intensive. Which was the most amazing thing I could have done. The once-a-week treatment for OCD was not in my best interest. I can't speak for everyone who has OCD. And it might be something that really works well for some other patients out there. And I'm so happy if it does, but for me, it was not going to be enough. And so I needed that in pa intensive in order to make more progress. And the second factor is you. Had I not had you pushing me at home. With the fidelity of ERP and rem and reminding me why we were doing this and what was on the other side when it got tough and I couldn't see that anymore. Or giving me those opportunities to have exposures and knowing how to do it and then knowing how to operate during those exposures to break the cycle of compulsions. Like I could do that all day long with my therapist, but then when I would get home, if I didn't have my spouse in complete support. of that or literally helping provide those opportunities for exposures, I wouldn't have had as much practice. And we all know the old saying that practice makes perfect. And while it's by no means perfect and it's still a work in progress for us, those two factors were Of incredible benefit to me making the progress that I am. So that would be my message to significant others and spouses of those who have OCD and those of us who have OCD, other people that do, if you are ready to tackle treatment, if you are ready to tackle ERP, the opportunity to do it with your significant other is cute and having them buy into it and help you and give you grace and space and support and Know when and when not to push at home. Totally key. Well, and and I will say, you know, with us doing it together, I gained a better understanding of what OCD is and and how it was impacting us and our relationship and our family. So when we did come home 'Cause there's a lot of hours in the week out of that, you know, eight hours that we were in therapy, a lot of hours that we had to take ownership of and be held accountable. So when when you would do some of those check ins and whatnot, both of us knew that we were both given the same information. Mm-hmm. I wasn't trying to catch you. No, both try given the same instruction on what to do in order to break the cycle. And and as a as a group, you myself and the and our therapists, we came to an agreement like, you know, how many cards, you know, passes could you get? And it it became an agreement in therapy. So when we came out of therapy, you know, it we were both on the same page with that. Absolutely. So I think that that helped Our relationship outside of it too. It wasn't just, you know, you're always doing ERP with me. You're always doing ERP. You're always, you know, it's not that. It was I was ready. Yeah. As the patient, so to speak, in terms of the person who has OCD, I was ready to finally break the cycle and make the change as well. And so I knew, even though it irritated me more than I can say, to hear you go from saying, it's fine, she's fine, he's fine, it'll be fine. To, I'm not sure. Ooh, it so irritated me right at first. But I knew that it was in my best interest and yours and the the kids. I had to always keep that in mind because the irritation would have won out otherwise. And I didn't want that either. And then the more and more we did it, and the more practice I got with it, then it became you and I became very good at it, first and foremost. Second of all, We both have really good senses of humor and it became a joke. It became funny and we could laugh about it and and have a little fun with it after all of that, the the bigger chaos and crises of the diagnosis and the initial ERP was over. And that's kind of what it's become now. So that it there remains that checks and balance. but you it does take but you still don't so there are some times that you you know that you need to do the ERP, but there's some things you don't. Like doing the ERP. You're like, I just wish we didn't have to do right now. Just just tell me. But I know, I know we have to, you know, just do we have to do this today? And and it it's all right. I feel like a petulant child or a petulant teenager, right? Like, I don't want to do this again. Yeah. But then I have enough of my adult formed brain in there to say, nope, you're gonna lean in because this is what's giving you the progress that you've made. You're you feel that progress now and you don't want to go back. Do you feel that the medication helped you? Access ERP a little bit easier. Yes. So I have I've mentioned this before, but it's important to say it again because it is a combination of the medication and the ERP together and and a and a lot of the psychoeducation along the way that has given me the life I have now versus what I had then. The meds dried the tears because they were so much crying and had been so much crying for so long. And the anxiety had just gotten so overwhelming and stayed up at that level of eights, nines, tens and never went, never came down. That the meds helped to to dry the tears. So then once the tears were dry, then it was like my brain kickstarted again. And I thought, okay, well, I don't want to, I don't feel like crying anymore. So now what do I do? And so then that's when I really felt like I could embrace. the therapy and the ERP. So anybody that's out there listening that's thinking about starting ERP or whatever, I mean obviously talk to your medical professional, but I mean y you were able to access the ERP because of that side. Yeah, the meds helped me with yeah. The and I love to say it in this way too, like the meds dried the tears and the ERP changed my life. Yeah. And I couldn't have done one without the other at this point. with the diagnosis of OCD. And with the medication side, that that was the one that I felt like I had to be a little bit more forceful with. And then I think our therapist was the one that was like, it it's either jump in with all ERP with the intensive outpatient or nothing. Mm-hmm. That one I didn't I didn't have to think about that at all. Or have to push for that one. That was more on the from our therapist side of it. So we had that relationship already. And I think that's key too, is finding somebody that you have a relationship with. And it doesn't have to be the spouse has the relationship with it. It's the person that has the OCD that I think you have to have that relationship with that person or in order to progress through ERP. yeah. You have to have that trust. You have to have someone that you trust. And and the the relationship between patient and therapist, huge amounts of trust there have to be in place first, which we were so fortunate that that happened as well. But then to have the extra layer that my significant other, my spouse, my very best friend in the world was also on the same page in my corner and getting the same information and instruction that I was getting so that we could really turn this into some progress made all the difference in the world. That's the the I mean, I couldn't have done that without you or without the trust that you and I had already established over the years we'd been married. Yeah. I mean that was that was key. And it's key that we did it together. and I think our therapist even has said that that's key. It's not the norm. No. That happens. No. You know, there there's even, you know, intensive inpatient, you know, therapy that you would do. You would go for you know, six, seven hours a day. And then maybe, you know, in the evening time you'd go home and then come back the next day, six, seven hours that but there's probably more relapses with it than not. Well, what I can say, and one of the reasons why we started this podcast to begin with was without the addition of having you alongside me in this entire ride that we've been on now. I would not have made near the progress that I've made. Nor do I think I would have given you the grace. I love that. Yes. If we did not go it through it together. Absolutely. And it and that's important on both pieces. Like the person that has OCD needs that person in their corner to help speed up their progress. And the person who's loving that that person with OCD should be able to give them some patience, some grace and some sp space when in if they need it. 'Cause it i it is not an easy process. No. So if you if you are, you know, if you have that significant other that has O C D and you know, you guys are listening to the podcast or would, you know, jump on to like this episode and just listen to how ERP can change your lives if you decide to put the work into it. It's not easy at all. It's a lot of hard work. It's like running up a mountain. Even for the person that is a non-OCD sufferer. it it's a lot of work. Yeah. You know, it it's it's mental exhaustion on on my side because I had to watch for those pitfalls, those check-ins, those things that you were doing. Mm. And you had to watch me panic. Yeah. And fall. And not help so that I could bring my anxiety down on my own without engaging in the compulsion that had to do with And that that, you know, when you love somebody so so much like I do, Stacy, and you see them going through a panic attack over a silly video. Okay, it's silly now, but it wasn't silly then. Absolutely. To me Animated decomposition is still decomposition. Okay, I want that out there for the world to hear. It's still decomposition. Or even at home, you know, like when our both of our kids were out one night and you were having that was a big one. Yeah. You know, you're having a a full on blown panic attack. Almost vomiting and and All I could do was just sit there and allow it to happen instead of comfort. Yep. Cause when somebody's sick, you wanna help you wanna comfort them and make them feel better and Yes. And in the case of having O C D you don't realize that that then feeds the the O C D. Yep. And and you've got to starve that O C D And instead of, you know, feed it and you just have to allow it to happen. But it's really hard to watch somebody go through that. And and at least with us going through therapy together, I had the knowledge, a deeper knowledge based about it. Yes. Because we both kind of were learning about the process and everything together. and I will say during therapy, there was a lot of times that I was just sitting there listening. Unless questions would come my direction. Or if I happen, you know, you guys might have been talking about something happening and I'm like, I might go, Well but she did try to do this with, you know, her O C D and kind of sell her out with it. shoot. I forgot about that. You know, so I I would I would give our therapist different scenarios that I did see the O C D come up. And And from her perspective, that's where she really enjoyed this kind of therapy that we've undertaken here with your involvement, because she has said too on occasion that with your perspective coming in, it gives her such a greater understanding of what I'm going through at home or what we need to do still at home or what we still need to tackle in therapy. Like Without that perspective, it was she was able to help me so much more as well. Yeah. She says it much more eloquently than I just did, but it's that's the the over gist of it. That knowledge your perspective helped her help me. And guide her treatment plan. There go the treatment went the way it did. And I was able to make progress. One thing I want to offer people, you know, if you're out there and you're listening and you're like, okay, you know, I've got a significant other, or I am that person that's thinking about it, reach out to us, email us. You you don't have to be on the podcast. We're more than happy to talk to you about our experiences, even if that would give you just that one Absolutely that that little little extra boost of confidence to or courage, I should say, to tackle ERP, please reach out to us. We we have no problem talking to anybody about it. And it the whole purpose of the podcast is to support and encourage people and, you know, yes. Give information and let everybody know that you're not out there alone, you know, dealing with OCD. Or or even the spouse's side. You're not the only one sitting there with a significant other that has O C D and have to deal with it in that side within a relationship because it's just another layer that can complicate a relationship. Mm-hmm. You know, we we are more than happy to to talk. Absolutely. So thank you for listening to today's episode. I know it was a little bit shorter, but thank you. Yes. And as always, thank you for living uncertain with us, everybody. Marc & Stacee: Thank you for joining us on today's episode and Living Uncertain with us. We are not therapists and this podcast is intended to provide information and support. It should not replace traditional means of seeking help from a licensed mental health professional. If you like this episode or would like to hear more, please like, subscribe or share with someone you think may benefit. Here at Living Uncertain, we're building a community of support. If you and your significant other would like to share your story, we would love to have you on the podcast. Please click on the link in the episode description and fill out the interest form.