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Why Changing Your Thinking Isn't Enough with Dr. Word Smith · Reclaiming Consciousness

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Toxic shame stops you from doing things that are good for you or and others.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Basically, when someone acts shamelessly around you, like inappropriate, like you know, like abuse or you know, neglect, and then that how they acted actually stops you from some positive quality.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like if I was to talk about someone's like physical appearance as a parent, like my child, in an inappropriate way, they might get the message and then have shame about feeling positive about their physical appearance.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think Buddhism, in my experience, has the best explanation of reality out of any system that I've heard.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I love the fact that even if it's not true or completely accurate, it's still the best model to live, I think.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: And it's basically whatever you're seeing happening in your world, you're doing or you have done to people.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: And if you want to see something different, act different, pretty much.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that's all that's in your world.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's all that is the world.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Reclaiming Consciousness.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Elise Bassine, trauma and breath work expert and creator of the Metamorphosis Method, the only methodology bridging the gap between spiritual healing and clinical trauma work.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: For many years, our consciousness has been hijacked by societal and cultural programming, religion, the media, and familial and ancestral trauma.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: In this podcast, you'll discover my unique perspective on trauma healing and how it is the gateway to fully reclaiming your consciousness.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: You'll hear stories and teachings of expand your mind as you discover how every relationship challenge, business block, or limiting pattern is an invitation to reclaim the parts of your consciousness you unknowingly gave away.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Get ready to go deep.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's dive in.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, everyone.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the show.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: This week I have a really fun episode for you.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: One of my nearest and dearest, bestest friends who's been on the show before, Dr.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Word, is with me in person.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And we did an off-the-cuff conversation just about his journey, my journey, some of the things we're working through right now.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And just stuff that comes up along the way.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about codependency, we talk about Buddhism, we talk about what it takes to really transform and feel your feelings.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: I am excited for you to hear this conversation.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: It was very unplanned and just kind of off the cuff, us just going back and forth chatting.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I think you'll get a lot out of it.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: And we talk about this idea of support and having someone support you in feeling your feelings as they come up so that you can move forward.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, that is pretty much the most important thing when it comes to creating change in your life and creating results is having the support to move through what comes up.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of times, if you don't have that, you make a story around it, right?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: You think, okay, well, this means that I shouldn't do this, or this means I need to wait, or this means that I have to do X before Y.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: And really all that's happening is you are having an unconscious feeling come up from childhood that you just need to process in order to move forward.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of times we take that as we need to stop or we need to do something else, or we're not good enough, or we doubt ourselves.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then we just stay stuck in that cycle.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: But if you have a container where someone is supporting you in feeling your feelings, giving you context for them and walking you through them so you can get to the other side, then you move so much more quickly.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what everyone that I work with experiences when they have a container like that with me privately or in one of my groups.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, over the years, I've just really honed in on that and developed the perfect safe sacred space for people to do that.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why everyone moves forward so quickly.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I always say for myself too, I would never be doing this without support like that.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: I have um my little team of people that I get support from.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I recommend everyone else have the same, especially if you are committed to your own growth process and if you have a business or you want to start one, or you just want to move forward with living in a way where you are um living your purpose and doing what it is that you truly feel called to do, having that support is crucial.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's the most important thing.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: So we talk about that as well.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I think you're gonna love this conversation.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Also, if you have questions, please reach out.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: If you would like to chat about your own process and the best way to get support from me, or just in general, what I think for you around the best way to get support, please reach out.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm happy to hop on a call with you or go back and forth through email.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll drop the link to schedule a call with me below or to email me below.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right now, the best ways to work with me are either through coming into the Metamorphosis, which is my three-month program, which is kind of like the flagship program that everyone does when they come in to work with me, because it is pretty much everything you need to move through whatever is blocking you from taking that next step or creating the permanent results that you want around your finances, your career, your relationships, and just your life in general.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you are just feeling that like lack of clarity of how to move forward, it helps you to shift whatever is clouding you so that you can move forward.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Please reach out to me.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Also, don't forget to check out my YouTube.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: I've been posting there every Wednesday.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I just posted a new breath work session on there around releasing the inner critic.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: And this is something that I have had a lot of people ask me about, and I explain in that video where the inner critic comes from, and then I guide you through about an eight-minute breathwork to shift it permanently.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's really, really good.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited about it, and I think you guys are gonna love it.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: So don't forget to check that out.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: We'll link that below and also don't forget to subscribe to my YouTube channel so you can uh see the new videos I put out every week, which are super useful and give you practical tools you can use to create change in your life.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Also, don't forget to rate and review the podcast on Apple.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: And if you send me a screenshot, you will get a$250 discount to joining anything in my world.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much again for being here.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: I love you guys so much, and your support is invaluable to me.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I think you're going to really enjoy this episode.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I will see you later.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Sending you lots of love and have a great weekend.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, everyone.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the show.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I am here with my bestie who's been on the show twice now.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think twice.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is the second.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is the second.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think this is the third time.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see who's right.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Word is here in Philly with me, and it's a happy time for us.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, great time to be hanging out.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: I really don't have a plan for this conversation.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: We have so much to talk about, I feel like.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: What do you feel like is the most interesting thing we could talk about?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: I think relationships, because I don't know, I feel like we've both been deeply exploring like what relationships mean to us, what they bring up in us, the most functional relationships we can have, things like that.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the reasons why we figured out that relationships are so hard, especially intimate relationships?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: This is the third time.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: The first time a while ago, right?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, you're right.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: Intimate relationships are hard.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think vulnerability.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: We've been talking a lot about vulnerability lately.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: And when I'm like, wait, what is that?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: Scorpio.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think we feel under the most threat in intimate relationships, especially when there's like a sexual component, or there's kids involved, or you're sharing finances, like those things up the vulnerability or threat level, and then everything gets like more intense or something.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then also childhood stuff.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that all is set up by the childhood stuff, which then puts us in a similar place for whatever we didn't process yet, yeah.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and in our adulthood long-term relationships, marriages, and stuff.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: My audience has probably heard me share multiple times about my own childhood and how my relationships now reflect that.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, do you maybe want to share anything about well, you could share about your perception of me, or you could share about your own story, whatever you want to share about that.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: We could do both.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'll get into we'll see where it goes.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, we've had thousands of hours conversation about your childhood and the things that have come up.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still learning new things.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: I learned some new things today.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, oh, I didn't know that.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, stuff about vacuuming.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, my how my dad always vacuums.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I didn't know that.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: When that whole thing happened, I was doing the thing that my dad always does, which was listen to his headphones, and I was like swiffering here and here right after we talked about that.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that's how it happens.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I had a reaction which simulated my childhood stuff, which was I'm pretty sensitive to smells, really sensitive to smells, and there was a smell in the air, and I felt from me cleaning the floor.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then I felt like not considered or something, and that triggered me, but we worked it out.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: It took like 20 minutes or something.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's the kind of thing that happens.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that yeah, but we're able to like work those things out really quickly.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas probably if it was somebody you were like in like a romantic relationship with or something, you probably would have hated them even more.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: It would have made it more intense, yeah.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: Cause it like goes back to your mom or your dad or something where you you think they're supposed to know everything about you and be completely sensitive all the time and completely helpful and like completely understanding, which isn't logical or mature, but it's like the mind of like a two-year-old or three-year-old or something.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because we've been doing this for so long, we were able to work it out in like 20 minutes.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: About 20 minutes.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: My childhood, it was pretty chaotic in certain ways from like an emotional standpoint.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: Both of my parents definitely had their pretty extreme vulnerability issues.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: They're Jamaican immigrants, not culturally known for emotional vulnerability, you know, and then had their own personal issues from their childhoods, etc.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was a good setup for kind of lack of sensitivity, consideration, sorts of things.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and me, at least, we grew up in the same town, actually, like less than a mile, like a mile from each other.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Less, probably.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, about a mile.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: From each other.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: Even before I knew her, I knew her house because I knew all I knew every house, you know, yeah, in the area.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and our area of the country isn't the most sensitive place either.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of like New York Northeast, like yeah, like blue-collar, like worker kind of vibe, just work and yeah.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think that a lot of the things that we're discovering now, we didn't have language for growing up, or we didn't even realize that those were things that we needed that we weren't getting.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's something that I see people like if I say something about like, oh, well, you know, your parents weren't present for you emotionally, or something, like it doesn't even click because, like, if you haven't heard that language before, you wouldn't have had words for like what you were feeling when you were younger.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, no, no, like four-year-old sitting there being like, My mother's emotionally neglecting me or whatever.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no one thinks that.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: So then when you hear this stuff, you don't have a context for it unless you like match it with a feeling.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of it is stuff that you don't realize that you needed that you didn't get.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: Or yeah, the words don't match what you realize you didn't get, but there is a feeling of something you didn't get, but you don't have languaging for in the beginning.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: But that creates problems in your life, such as all kinds of relationship difficulties and challenges and work challenges, money challenges, sex challenges, physical challenges, you know, all the psychological challenges, of course.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: What are what would you say were your biggest challenges that you've now shifted?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like overcome and stuff?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oof, there's a that's a long list.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we've been doing this for like 25 years, so and uh we've been both working hard.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, let me see.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: I've overcome a lot of uh self-criticism stuff, which is amazing.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: My life is so much better.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: Used to be hypercritical, perfectionistic, kind of really like shame-based.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm doing it wrong, I'm a loser or worthless or that kind of arc of thinking.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: And plus, you want to hide that because that's how shame usually is.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: So then you're like hiding shame and you're in shame, and it's really a recipe for self-hatred or just like self-deprecation.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: I don't really have it.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a little bit, but yeah.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I know you were talking about too, because we're both doing you're doing Kalari now, and how you noticed when you used to do martial arts in the past, you were like so hard on yourself, and now you're like I just do my best, and well, and you're able to have fun, I'm sure, or be more present.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm just in my body, I just notice the effects, I just practice and then I go about my day.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of just like grounding in reality because a lot of that other stuff was just in my head, and it didn't actually reflect what was going on, yeah.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something that I always like say to people, you know, like they want to do this thing, then they have the story that like everyone's gonna make fun of them or it's gonna be so bad, but like all the evidence around them points to the opposite, so it's like there's only one place that that's coming from, yeah.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: Your head, I mean, heart, whatever.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: Usually, most people are pretty supportive if you like try, you know.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: There's like one or two haters, depending on how you go about it.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: I guess if you're doing it in like an authentic, kind of humble way, usually people are just like, Oh, well, that's how I feel like when I started my business, everyone was like, Oh, yeah, that makes sense.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: That you would do that job, that's your job.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like it wasn't like, oh, what's she doing?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like a crazy leap or something, yeah.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how it is for most people.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it makes total sense.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, once in a while, it's random kind of mess that happens, but yeah, in general, no, yeah.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know, there's a lot of things I've overcome.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, what else?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a lot of shame, which relates to the self-criticism.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, talk about the languaging thing.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't even know.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I obviously knew the word shame in my like lexicon, but I didn't know what it was in connection to my own mind and heart.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, and when I started like learning about it in terms of you know, emotional growth or as a block to emotional growth, and this is about 2017, and I learned it in the context of like recovery.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I wasn't doing recovery work, but recovery work was one of the only places that I knew that people were doing like deep work, and so a lot of the resources I found were through those channels, like and like recovery can mean a lot of things, but like 12-step.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's kind of 12-step kind of stuff.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I have a lot of clients, right?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: I've had and do have a lot of clients in recovery, so I feel like I have so much knowledge of 12-step.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it, there's a lot of it's good.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's some things I don't agree with, but a lot of it's really good.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I like it.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, a lot of the steps I had already done naturally in my process at that point, because that was like 15 years in.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so I remember like the day I realized I was like, oh, that shame, like that thing that's going on inside me that's like hateful and critical and feels horrible.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: And like telling me, telling myself I'm like worthless.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, that shame?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh, I experience that like every day, and it's it's disgusting, you know, it's very difficult.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and that's the thing that makes you feel like you can't do the thing or can't be around people or can't express.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right, exactly.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: I listened to open in PM Melody, who's amazing, who opened her own center outside of Phoenix, Arizona, called the Meadows, I believe.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: And she helped a lot and differentiate between toxic shame and you know, like healthy shame.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's things we should be ashamed of, like hurting people, and there's things we shouldn't be ashamed of, like loving ourselves, you know, extremely helpful.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I I heard that in 2017 and was doing the work intensely for years before it really settled in, like five years or something.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh, oh, that shame.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: So if somebody was like, How would I know that I have shame coming from my childhood?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how would you connect the shame that you felt and how it was showing up in your life and then to where how it started in childhood?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: How did someone make that connection?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you really got to examine yourself quite a bit.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's a 12-step term, I forget the exact terminology, but you take this moral inventory, like a very deep moral inventory of your own mind.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so you got to know what's going on in your mind.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: And that might mean like getting, you know, like a coach, counselor, therapist, like at least me, and think doing things like meditation where you're really paying attention to your thoughts, your feelings, your body.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: So once you have that, then as close as you can, recalling your childhood or how your parents act.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: And even if you don't remember your childhood, if your parents are around, like just see how they are now.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's probably pretty similar, depending on yeah, situation.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Or I think when you identify that you feel a certain level of shame, you can be like, okay, when's the first time I remember feeling this way?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Or is this how I felt growing up?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because usually there's like a general way you felt growing up.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: And there's you're gonna need to do that in my experience in the work over and over again, just be like comparing and contrasting how you act with how it was when you grew up, how your parents act, how your siblings are if you have them, other people you might have grown up with, like grandparents and cousins and such.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think shame is probably the biggest thing that people don't see because I think it tells you not to do something, like not to talk about it, not to take a step forward, not to do whatever you think you should do, or not to put yourself out there or whatever.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, what's the biggest indicator?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the biggest indicator is basically when you yeah, when you can't do positive things, shame, like toxic shame, stops you from doing things that are good for you or and others.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: PM L explains it better than anyone I've heard ever, but basically when someone acts shamelessly around you, like inappropriate, like you know, like abuse or you know, neglect, and then that how they acted actually stops you from some positive quality.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like if I was to talk about someone's like physical appearance as a parent, like my child in an inappropriate way, they might get the message and then have shame about feeling positive about their physical appearance, which which is then a bad thing.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's like the basic mechanism.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, do you want to talk about Buddhism?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: We don't go about well, I just think that's such a like a part of your journey that is like not you can't like not talk about it.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm a Buddhist scholar.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, I also like Chinese medicine, study a lot of Taoism.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: I was a philosophy major in at Temple.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: We went to Temple University together.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I'd have this whole scholarly bent to my life, my world.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so what would you say are like the biggest because I think there's a lot of really great things about it, but like the most important things about it, but then also like the pitfalls or the things that have tripped you up about it.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think Buddhism, in my experience, has the best explanation of reality out of any system that I've heard.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I love the fact that even if it's not true or completely accurate, it's still the best model to live, I think.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it's basically whatever you're seeing happening in your world, you're doing or you have done to.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: People, I mean, if you want to see something different, act different, pretty much.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: And that's all that's in your world.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's all that is the world, you know.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then it gets into all these debates about what perception is.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of want to be like a Buddhist debater.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's big time.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: I know, but I feel like that's the only like game.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: I told you, I feel like that's the only like game I could win.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I kind of want to debate.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: Saying being a Buddhist debater is like saying being like a black NBA player.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like, no, it's crazy.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm joking, of course.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I keep seeing myself debating though, because I feel like I can hang with it.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: You think I can?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: You don't think I can?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it depends what you mean by Buddhist debate.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I study Tibetan Buddhism and mostly the Galupa tradition, which is like the same as the Dai Lama and other people like that.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: And their debate system is extremely rigorous.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's 2,500 years old, they're crazy about it.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, but is it like debate because if it's debating like concepts of like reality, then I then I feel like I could do it.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: If it's like debating like text or something like that, like shit I don't know, like then I don't know.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the basic rule is if you don't know the text, they're not allowed to use the text when they talk to you.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: Which makes sense because it's because otherwise you couldn't come have a conversation, right?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: But once you learn the format, I think you could do it, but the format's a little it's very logical, but it's a it's you know, it's a format.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: You have to learn.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe this is my next thing.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna become a Buddhist.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: You heard I literally keep seeing it though.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't that I've never heard her say this?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm just saying it for the first time now.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: I know a whole course on Buddhist debate you can take.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll see next time you guys check in.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: Does did she do it or not?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it might be like where do you even do it?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we debate, we have debates.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: My friend is a debate class in Buddhist debate.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: But like, is there like uh do you sign up for like uh there's courses?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: There's the there they have debate ground where they just talk and zoom, it's all there for you.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: I maybe I don't know what I'm getting into, but I kind of do uh so yeah, Buddhism's played a huge role.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love the core concepts, which is it just it's very empowering and it it makes people responsible.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: And there's part of life that science basically doesn't really take into account, and that's like your whole inner world.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: So Buddhism basically says what you think, how you treat people, how you act, then goes on to create what you see.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: So that means every thought is valuable, and uh and maybe that's even a little scary in a certain way, but uh through meditation and therapy and different kinds of practices, you can change how you think and how you feel.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then in my experience, your life changes rapidly from there.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, like if I was to say, like, okay, let me just change my thinking, what would be the missing piece there if I was just gonna change my thinking without addressing anything else?
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: What's the missing piece?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is the thing that like why is it hard to just change your thinking?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because your thinking is driven by what?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because your thinking is driven by habits that are very old.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: Some people would say from past lives, but even if you say from birth, that's fine.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so those habits kind of have an inertia.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, why is it hard to stop a train with your bare hands?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's like even if you take your foot off the gas, you know, or as it were, it still takes a while for it to stop and it weighs hundreds of tons.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Your mind has that kind of inertia, so you have to do things that help to stop that flow, and that there's practices, you know, there's all kinds of options.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was getting more at like why it's hard to just focus on like your thinking because there's like feelings behind it.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, yeah, they all go together.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the thoughts, the feelings, and the body, I don't think should be separated if you're trying to change your life, change your world.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: And if you do, that's I think that's how a lot of people fail.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you just try to do like, I don't know, like something like affirmations.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I've had my time, my run with affirmations, it's been a little while.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think we all have, yeah.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: At least the affirmations a lot at some point, and they're great, but then people feel like, oh, they don't work, or it's only one like layer.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's like the tip of the iceberg kind of thing.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you see the ice.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the icebergs, I don't why did they say tip of the iceberg?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: The iceberg is the tip, anyway.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so the iceberg is the tip of like the glacier, right?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's just trying to address the iceberg or something without addressing what's under it and expecting like exactly the certain results.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because usually the feelings or the unconscious feelings are what's driving the thoughts, which is creating, yeah, and vice versa.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: The thoughts then create unconscious feelings, and it's a cycle.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, if you put the body in there too, like how you move, what your how you hold yourself, all those things then contribute to how you feel and how you think.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I mean, Buddhism is wonderful.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think you asked me some challenges I've had too.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the challenge I've had is how the way Buddhism, in my experience, and I've read a lot of Buddhist texts at this point, and most of them are quite old.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the Buddhist 2500 years ago, the founder of Galupa, Tibetan Buddhism, is about 600 years ago.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like 600 years ago is like the more recent stuff, right?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so I don't know, I guess it's a way different world, right?
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: No internet and such.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: But in my experience, yeah, it's kind of it feels depersonalized, which I think has some benefits.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: But when it comes to your personal practice, I personally feel like therapy, energy work, coaching, all those sorts of things has been a great addendum.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I would have had a hard time without those options.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I also feel like everyone has to find their own path.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was talking to somebody the other day about some like lineage she was like teacher she was learning from, whatever.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: And like one of the things was if you want to learn from this person, you have to like that can be the only person you like learn from.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I just feel like that is like fundamentally flawed because A, it's like giving up your power, right?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: And B, it's saying that like, okay, now you can't find your own way, like you can't, you only have to do this, but what if there's aspects of that that don't work for you?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and you have to be able to extract what's gonna work for you from all the things that you learn.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's hard.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, some people think like it reflects like an older way of being in a world where there was a lot less options in a way.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: But there's different perspectives on it.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: Some people think if you really think your teacher is enlightened or something like that, then that is all you need.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: But again, yeah, I agree.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: But it's different for everybody, it's different for everybody, yeah.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think like the other thing that I think is important is when we look at the ancient teachings, we have to be able to apply them for like today, like the energy of the world today, which is like different than whatever 2,500 years ago or whatever.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like a different, there's a different energy on the planet.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that we can't expect it to be like apples to apples, right?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think there's a lot of things that are really valuable about Buddhism that I only know because of you, because or else I wouldn't have learned it.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, there's tons of amazing stuff there.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think my favorite thing actually is the seed planting.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, seed planting.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's my favorite thing.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a lot of people love that, and it's it's just the concept of karma, but that word has gotten so like overused and misunderstood that you know, my teacher just calls it seeds, and it's Jesus called them seeds, and other people, I think Confucius and such.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it's it's a great analogy, and it's like your you know, your life as a garden, and like whatever you uh cultivate is what springs up.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't pull out certain weeds, you it ends up choking out the good stuff.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, and also it's more like if you want to create something, then you help someone create it, or you put you know, like that whole concept.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think is really I just think it works.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: I know it works.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean it's worked for me.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's up to everyone to try to try it on their own.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: The basic idea she's saying is step one, figure out something you want.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: Step two, find someone else that also wants that.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: Step three, help them get it.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: Step four, sit back and feel happy that that's what you did.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: And especially before bed at night and before going into dreams.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that process is supposed to be an expedited conscious version of what we do all the time, which is you know, take actions and then feel a way about it.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: But this is supposed to be on purpose and specific, and then allow you to, you know, see the results in your life quickly.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things I think is important too is like the idea of karma or the seeds, but the way you feel about it, you know, because I think like you, it's not like mechanical, like that's all how I talk about my process too, is like you can't just be like say, like, it's okay to your inner child and think that that's gonna like solve the problem.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: It has to have like an energy or a feeling behind it.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we can't just be like, okay, I'm gonna like mechanically help this person or whatever.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: If you're doing it just so you can get something, or you're doing it, you have to be doing it for the joy of it to a degree, right?
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, there's Buddhist stories that are amazing, like uh how people have been tried very hard to do these good deeds, right?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: For like good karma, good seeds, and they get some goodness comes back to them, but people who are are just bystanders who like are super happy get better virtue, good karma than them.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: So doing stuff because doing things because you have to, or with like some kind of anemone, like you know, like bad feeling or something, the results aren't as good, and you see it all the time in our work.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: If you work with people who have difficult family dynamics like codependency, or and they're they feel like they have to do things, and then they don't get the good results, they don't feel happy in those dynamics, even though they're constantly helping their children or their partner or other family members.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: The dog.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's me with the dog.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love my dog, but maybe we maybe now that you bring up codependency, maybe we should talk about that.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, let's talk about codependency.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: I have a master's in both being and studying.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm joking.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know actually.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: I've done a lot of work around codependency.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: I I feel like in the last year-ish, I've broken down most, if not all, the pattern.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: Basically, just not being able to say no to things that don't work for me.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: I guess at the the base level, and also I think codependency, too, is the element of your feelings are dependent on others, or like not knowing the difference between your feelings and someone else's feelings.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's something I'm still, as you know, uh dismantling.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a process, and you know, it's like inextricably linked to our survival mechanism in my experience.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: Basically, we became that way to survive our household growing up, our rearing process with our parents, things of that nature.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: It is a pretty good survival mechanism for a child, but as like uh to try to be a high-functioning adult, it doesn't work well, it doesn't lead to happiness.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, we you feel all these obligatory feelings and you act on those, and you're not acting on your own needs, pretty much, but also it's largely unconscious, largely, you know.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that a lot of times the way that it functions is like, especially as women, I'm just gonna speak like as a woman and mom and a wife.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't even occur to you that you have a choice in certain things, right?
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like going to your kids' baseball game or whatever.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: This is something we've talked about.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like you automatically are like, I have to do this, or else I'm a bad mom or something, or whatever it is.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: One baseball game is not the end of the world, right?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: And there's always like nuance to it.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when you're a parent, you do have to do certain things that maybe aren't on the top of your list to do because that's what being a parent is.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: However, when you compound making choices over and over and over again that are not things that you enjoy, or you make choices out of guilt or shame or self-abandonment, then you create this world within you where you are constantly self-abandoning and you feel terrible.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're like, why am I so mad at the hole in the window?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: The ventilator.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Why am I so mad that there's like aluminum tape on the window?
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like because that just pushes you over the edge when you already are not honoring or valuing how you feel.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: And this is this is like one of the biggest things that I work with a lot of my women clients on valuing yourself, like valuing your feelings and when not only when you're making a decision, but also like as a practice, like because I know for me, one of the reasons why I get at capacity or I collapse, which we talk about this a lot, is because over time I'm not honoring how I feel.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then once I get to a point where I haven't honored how I felt enough, then it's like I collapse.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's like there's having to put my kids to bed feels like it's too much, you know, because I've already gotten to the point where I wasn't honoring how I feel.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing that I've noticed is that a lot of times those feelings are not like in my conscious mind per se.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's more like a low level, like, okay, this doesn't work for me, that doesn't work for me, but I'm still doing it because I already said yes or whatever it is, and I'm not stopping to check in to say, no, this doesn't work for me.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then those things compounded, then create a collapse.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I'm like learning right now, and like gradually starting to be able to shift, even though it's hard after living this way for 44 years or whatever.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: And watching my mom do it.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think that was something we were talking about the other day when I was like, when I realized I had said yes to something from guilt and shame.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh my God, this is exactly how my mom is always operating, or what I would watch her do is like say yes to things and then like complain about that she had like all these things to do.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Well, why did you say you would like feed blah blah blah's cat or whatever the fuck she was doing, you know?
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: But that's what I learned is like how you operate as a person, woman, wife, mom.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I yeah, I was very similar for years.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: And the other thing is people tend to like it because you're saying yes to a lot of things, yeah, and you got like rewarded for that.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, you have in certain ways, a certain reward, yeah, which is people liking you or some kind of adoration or some kind of connection or like social approval, you know, things like that.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it still doesn't function to make you happy though, because it's all external and it's internally self-abandonment kind of thing.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you don't feel well, and it actually compounds.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I've a lot of the books I've read say like a lot of this stuff doesn't really hit people until they're 30s and maybe even 40s, because it is like a tank that like runs out.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's fine in your teens, you don't much responsibility usually, 20s, you just start responsibility, you know, 30s, you might have kids at that point or married, or depending.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like a tank that all of a sudden you hit like 40-ish and it's like intolerable.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then also I think with women, too, their hormones start to change with like perimenopause.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like on top of that tank running out, then also you have all these like hormonal changes where it's harder for you to like numb your feelings or black out your feelings.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why all these women in their 40s are just like, fuck this.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a process, it's a learning process.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: For me, I've just I've read a lot as well as delved a lot into my own feelings, and so that combination of things has helped me quite a bit because we're gonna make mistakes, we're gonna hurt ourselves sometimes, we're gonna hurt people, you know, and it takes some humility to apologize and admit, forgive, whatever the process is and move on.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: But the more you can learn about it through other people's experience, other people's mistakes, I feel like the better.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, and also just being able to admit, because I know for me for a long time I didn't feel like I was allowed to do things differently or say things or say I didn't want to do things or whatever.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: But once you hit this like point where you're like, okay, I'm feeling I'm gonna die unless I stop living this way, you know, it's like then you have to hit this point where you're willing to feel that uncomfortable because you can't go on the other way.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, and that's what I think most people have to get to in order to change.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's like rock bottom, whatever that looks like for each individual person.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, it helps to have good friends, you know.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: Lisa's one of my best friends, and yeah, we just tell each other if something's off or weird and I'm really open to what she says, she's open to what I say, and it helps a lot.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: I we often joke about the things that if we had listened to each other, like in years past, you know, the kind of problems we'd have avoided.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, we're supposed to go through exactly but now we just are listening to each other about everything.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, it's a better model, but yeah, you know, but yeah, you have to go through certain things, and it's what's in you that's that counts the most.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: I want to end it with this because I always talk to my clients about like our container that we have, and the parallel with like the container I have with each of them, right?
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: Where they know that it's a safe space for them to feel their feelings, but also the the reflection of having someone else like give you context for what you're experiencing or like walk you through your feelings or help you get perspective, right?
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think a lot of times if people don't have that, they either act on impulse or they act on like stories that aren't necessarily true, or they just don't act at all because they're so stuck in their own story of shame as to why they shouldn't move forward, they just don't move forward.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: So having some sort of like support or container with like somebody that can give you that space.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to grow, like you have to have that.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, wouldn't you agree?
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not exactly sure about have to, but I think it might be the single most helpful external thing.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't want to live without it.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, you got to find the right person for that job too.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: So well, yeah, I'll I'll always say, like, I'll be fine going about my day.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: But then as soon as we get on the phone, I just will like start crying because I know that it's a safe space for like my body, my mind, my energy knows it's a safe space for me to feel.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas, like, if I'm like, you know, I'm holding space for clients, I'm with my kids, I'm doing all this other stuff, there's no room for that.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't mean it's not there.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: So when you have that space, then you get to process your feelings so you're not stuck.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas, like, if you don't have that, then your feelings just keep like bottling up.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: You're not even aware of them because there's no space for them.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, having a container in whatever relationship that's specific and safe can help, you know, when you enter that, when you have that connection, then you can then you're automatically no.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like one of my clients said that to me.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: She was like, as soon as I get in Boxer, then I start feeling, I start processing because her body knows that's the space for it.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: I just think it's so important because it's kind of like that analogy I always say about if you were walking through the desert and you sprained your ankle and you had to get to the other side where there was water, you would just walk through the pain of sprained of having a sprained ankle.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: You wouldn't like think about it hurting.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: But then once you got to the water, you would be like, Oh shit, my ankle really hurts.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: And like that's how feelings are.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you don't have a place to feel them because you're just walking through the desert, you're not gonna feel them until you get to a safe space.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that's to me the most important thing because if you don't have that, you're not gonna move forward, you're not gonna process your feelings.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, safety is one of the main things.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's the most important thing for feelings.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, we're probably gonna do a retreat.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have the details yet.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: You'll hear more from us.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: I hope.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, in October.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: We'll tell more about that.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to tell people about what you do?
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: I am an uh energy worker, coach, as I said before, Buddhist scholar, um, a Chinese medicine doctor, and uh I basically combine all those things to help people, usually pretty result-based sorts of healing, helping manifestation work.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: I've been doing it for about 25 years.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really good.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's really good.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: I can help.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: It depends on the person always, but I can help people with it.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think anything.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, if you need some help, come to go to my website, Dr.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: Wordsmith Wisdom.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: We'll link it below.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: Look, look in the link in the description.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, thank you.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: Love you.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for being here.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to follow the show on Apple or Spotify.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: Leave a review and share the show with your friends who you know are yearning for this type of content.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: When you leave a review, send us a screenshot and we'll send you a$250 credit that you can apply to joining anything new in my world.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: You can stay connected with me by following me on Instagram at Elise underscore breeds.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you download my Clear Trauma Cheat Sheet at elisebreeds.com.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: See you next time.