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Gypsy Rose-Blanchard: Victim or Perpetrator? · Legally Brunette

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hi, guys. Welcome to an episode of Legally Brunette. I'll
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: be your host today, Emily Simpson and.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Shane. All right.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Today, because this has come up in the news recently,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: we are going to do an episode on Gypsy Rose Blanchard.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Have you heard of Gypsy Rose before?
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: I'm sure everybody... She's infamous. I would say infamous.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: In fact, I've heard so much about her, I thought
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: we did a podcast.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Shane was like, oh, is this an update? I
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: was like, no, we've never talked about Gypsy Rose before.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: We've talked about her a lot, just not in front
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: of these microphones. Right. All right.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: So in the city of Springfield, Missouri, Dee Dee Blanchard
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: was known as a devoted single mother. Her daughter, Gypsy Rose,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: had spent most of her life in a wheelchair, battling
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: a long list of serious illnesses. Neighbors admired them, charities
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: rallied around them, and Habitat for Humanity even built them
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: a home.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
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  Speaker 1: To the outside world, they were a story of resilience,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: a mother sacrificing everything for her fragile, sick child. Have
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: you seen photos of their house?
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: It was built by Habitat for Humanity. It's in Missouri.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: They were actually living in Louisiana for most of her
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: life when she was young, and then after Hurricane Katrina-
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: They moved. I don't know if they moved because of
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: the hurricane. There was also familial issues and things like
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: that as well, but they ended up moving to Missouri
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: and then Habitat for Humanity, who somehow knows about their story,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: ends up building them a home. It was like this
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: cute little pink house with a wheelchair ramp. So they
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: modified it. They built it, you know, specifically for her needs.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Okay. Which is what being in a wheelchair and things
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: like that, right? A lower reaching height.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Then in June of 2015, an unsettling message appeared on
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Dee Dee's Facebook page. I was telling you that Dee Dee,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: the mother.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Yes. Mother Rose.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Her name is not Mother Rose.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: What's Dee Dee stand for?
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Her name is Dee Dee. That is a name. Her
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: first name is like. D-E-E.
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  Speaker 2: Like D-E-E.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: D-E-E.
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  Speaker 2: So it's Dee Dee.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Not Dee Dee.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: It's Dee Dee.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay. Like.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Her real name's like Claudinia or something, and she goes
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: by Dee Dee.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Okay? Do you get that now? Do you understand?
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: Yes. Mother Rose.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: No, it is. She's the mother. You're killing me. All
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to tell you is that they have a
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: joint Facebook page.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: That's it. What's it called?
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: It's something like Dee Dee Gyps Rose something. Anyway, they
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: have a joint Facebook page where the mother posts a
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: lot about Gypsy Rose and her ailments and illnesses and
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: all the things that they're going through. So I think
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: it's important that you know that they have a joint
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Facebook page. Because an unsettling message appeared on it. This
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: is what started the whole thing in June of 2015.
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  Speaker 1: Worried friends called the police after they saw the unsettling
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: message and what officers found inside the little house set
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: off a frantic search for a vulnerable young woman who
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: seemed to have vanished. As investigators pierced things together, every
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: assumption about the Blanchards began to unravel. Who was Gypsy
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Rose really? Was she as ill as they claimed? And
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: what had gone on behind the closed doors of a
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: home that seemed so full of love? All right. On
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: May 3rd of 1967, Claudinia, that's her name. That's the
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: mother's name, Claudinia.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Also known as Didi.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: But she goes by Didi. Claudinia Didi Petrie is born
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: in Golden Meadow, Louisiana. Relatives later described a history of
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: troubling behavior, including check fraud in the 80s. Some family
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: members also suspected that she neglected or starved her own mother, Emma,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: before Emma died in 1997. These suspicions were never proven.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Around 1990, Didi, then in her 20s, begins a relationship
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: with Rod Blanchard, who is 17 at the time. I
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: think Either he lied about his age or she lied
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: about her age. Somebody lied about their age because it
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: was a big age difference. It's 17 and 23. But
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: they end up dating. They met at a bar at
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: a bowling alley.
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  Speaker 2: Well, then I'm going to guess that she was lying
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: about her age. Probably. Because she got into a bar
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: or she was at a bar. No, she's 23.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: He's 17.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Oh, is he the other way around? Yes.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: He's younger. And then they start dating. She becomes pregnant.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: And they get married. The way I understand it is
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: that he wanted to do the right thing. I don't
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  Speaker 1: think he was in love with her at all or
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: he just wanted to– he thought– The.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Right thing would be not to sleep with her. Well, okay.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: But we're past that.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: He did sleep with her. No, but I'm just like
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: he wanted to be a good guy. So then you
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: sleep with people you don't like and then you marry them?
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  Speaker 1: Well, he married her because she was pregnant. Well, I
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: feel like that's a story old as time when people
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: get married because somebody got pregnant and then you're like, oh,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: you're supposed to do the right thing now. You're supposed
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: to get married. I know.
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  Speaker 2: And I was just taking it a step further as
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: to what the right thing was.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Not to sleep with her in the first place.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Rod leaves the marriage quickly after. So they're not married
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: very long. And then he's like, I'm not in love
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: with this woman. He's out.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: It's all screw the right thing. Yeah.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: He later said he realized he had married for the
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: wrong reasons and he stays in contact and pays child
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: support for years. I actually like the dad. I've seen
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: several documentaries and several interviews with him. And I find him,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: and maybe I'm wrong, but I find him to be
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: like a really decent guy.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: So then what happened?
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: I believe he tried to have a relationship with her.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: From the interviews that I've seen with him, he always
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: wanted to have a relationship with her. But Dee Dee
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: was very controlling. And I think she only allowed him
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: to see her kind of on her own terms. She
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: also moved a lot with Gypsy. So they started out
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: being pretty close in proximity, and I believe he saw Gypsy.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Then they ended up moving like two hours away. He
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: saw her less. Then they ended up moving like four
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: hours away. And then they ended up moving to Missouri,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: and he was in Louisiana.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Was it like your dad's asking too many questions? We
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: got to move further away? Maybe.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, that could have been it. My takeaway from
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: listening to him talk and watching his interviews– he just,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: he thought Dee Dee was an amazing mom and he
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: let her just take the lead.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: I also believe that when he was working, he also did,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: I think he went to Alaska to work on like
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: oil rigs and things like that.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Okay, so he thought Dee Dee, he saw it as
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: the mother was taking care of the daughter.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: And he also said that he was afraid to rock
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: the boat too much with her because he was afraid
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  Speaker 1: she would just disappear with, the daughter.
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  Speaker 2: So I think.
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  Speaker 1: He felt like she was a good mom, but she
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: was also very controlling of everything. And so he didn't
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: want to push too hard.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Is the way you think now about her.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, all right. Then in July 27th, 1991,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: gypsy Rose Blanchard is born in Lake Charles, Louisiana. By
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: all accounts, she is a healthy baby at around, um,
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: about three months old. DD becomes convinced that gypsy has
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: sleep apnea and takes her to doctors. Tests find nothing wrong.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: This is usually cited as the first sign of the
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Munchausen syndrome by proxy. Yeah.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: Well, looking back, it's the first sign. At the time,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: they didn't see it that way, right? How old was
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: the daughter the first time she brings her in for
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: sleep apnea?
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  Speaker 1: Around three months old.
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  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: She also had a legitimate eye issue because if you
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: see pictures of Gypsy Rose, she has a lazy eye,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: but she's had surgery to fix it. But when she
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: was very young. Her eyes were very, it was noticeable
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: that she had. So I was thinking, because she did
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: have surgery when she was very young to fix the
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: eye issues. And I thought, is that what started the Munchausen?
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  Speaker 1: Like maybe when.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: She took her- Or if that was just a freebie.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Like she took her legitimately to get a surgery and then,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe she got a bunch of attention
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: from it or people were rallying around or they were
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: bringing her gifts or they were You know, what it
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: is that like incites a mother to all of a sudden.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Well, what I was saying, well, if it started back
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: with her own mother, then the fact that Gypsy needed
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: some medical attention for reals was probably just she got lucky.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: She's like, oh, great. She really does need help. And
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: then she took her. Yeah. And then, you know, exaggerates
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: everything else.
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  Speaker 1: So Munchausen syndrome by proxy is a mental illness and
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  Speaker 1: a form of child abuse. The caretaker of a child,
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  Speaker 1: most often the mother, either makes up fake symptoms or
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: causes real symptoms themselves to make it look like the
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: child is sick. You know, I had never heard of
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: it or knew much about Munchausen by proxy. The first
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: time I remember ever seeing any kind of– anything that had– Oh.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Let me guess. What? Sixth Sense. Yes. I knew it. Yes.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: And I tell you, the first time I saw The
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Sixth Sense, I didn't even understand it because this was,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know, when did it come out.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: In the 90s? Because you're probably thinking, why would a
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: mother want to poison the child, like inflict illness on
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: the child?
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: And in the movie, she inflicted illness until the daughter died.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, because it was her ghost that came back
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: and was, you know.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, she died.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: Right, because... Well, okay, the movie is it's a funeral.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: This scene is a funeral for this daughter, this young girl. Right.
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  Speaker 2: And then this kid that has this sixth sense is
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: directed to kind of go there because her spirit tells
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: him to go there. And he goes and he finds
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: the cassette tape or the videotape that she made. Was
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: secretly planted in a room showing what the mom was,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: how the mom was poisoning her. Right. And then he
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: gets it and he gives it to the dad, I think,
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: and the dad plays it. And then he's watching in
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: front of everyone at this, it's not the funeral, it's
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: the service after in the home, right? The gathering. And
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: they're all watching this video of this mom putting like
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: lead poisoning or whatever it was in their soup.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I was just saying when I saw that
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: the first time in the 90s, I didn't know what
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Munchausen by proxy was. And I just remember not even
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: understanding really. I remember questioning like, what is she doing?
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: It made no sense to me. Now, as an adult,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: and now we've talked about Munchausen by proxy at other times,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: it's interesting that it really is a disorder that's mostly
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: mothers doing it to their children.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: I learned from the documentary that a lot of mothers
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: that do this, that they start out doing it, they're
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: all kind of start out by asking for a feeding plan.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: I thought that was interesting.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Oh, what? A feeding tube?
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Yes. That that's one of the things that they, that
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: mothers that do this, they usually all kind of do
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: the same thing.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Is that because it's a visual like thing to gain sympathy?
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: No, it's because I learned this. It's because they can
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: control how much food a child gets, and they can
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: control medication going in and out. So they can control
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: whether they want to make the kid sick or not
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: or feed them or not. It's a way to control
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: their symptoms.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: So only they can kind of funnel whatever the child takes. Right. Wow,
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: do they all go on Reddit and learn this or something?
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: Is there like a group with like first step and
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: if you want to inflict pain on your kid?
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: It's interesting though, isn't it, that they said in the
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: documentary that it starts out usually.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: With a- You mentioned the sleep apnea and I asked
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: how old. You said three months. If you had a
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: kid that wasn't sleeping at three months, would we think
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: sleep apnea or would we think- Colic. Yeah, colicky or
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: difficulty getting to sleep, try different things. I wouldn't be like,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: there's a disorder here.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: All right, so in Gypsy's early childhood, Dee Dee claims
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: that Gypsy has a chromosomal disorder and a growing list
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: of other conditions. They move between relatives' homes in Louisiana,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: including her father's home near Sladell. About age seven to eight,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Gypsy has a minor motorbike accident with her grandfather and
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: scrapes her knee. Dee Dee insists that the injury needs
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: repeated surgeries and puts Gypsy in a wheelchair. Gypsy could
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: walk normally but would use the wheelchair in public for
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: approximately 15 years.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Man, that's crazy that you can walk but you're using
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: a wheelchair for 15 years.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know what? And it doesn't make sense
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: because I'm like, if this child knows that she can
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: walk but she continues to use the wheelchair, but really
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: when you're that young and you just live with your mom,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: that's it.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: It also becomes normal. Maybe the mom told her, like, no,
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: it's better if you don't walk. Right. Like you need
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: to sit down.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: And the mother's the only access really she has to,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: you know, she doesn't really have many other people around her.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: She doesn't go to school. She keeps her from school.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: I assume she tries to homeschool her or something, or
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: she says she can't go to school because she has
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: so many ailments or illnesses or whatever. So basically Dee
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Dee's the only one in her life controlling every aspect
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: of her life. And when you're a young child like that,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: like we were talking about earlier, if I just told
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Keller from day one that he can't walk and he
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: needs to use a wheelchair and I mean, he would
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: believe us and he would do that. And if I
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: told him he was sick and he needed a feeding tube,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: he would, you know, kids aren't going to.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: And the other way too, if you told them they're
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: wonderful and loving and like a child of God and
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: all these great things, they would grow up thinking that too.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying it goes both ways. Just as you're
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: supposed to instill in them the confidence and this and that,
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: she was doing the opposite.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: So Dee Dee takes Gypsy out of school after about
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: second grade, citing her illnesses, which include she claimed that
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: she had learning disabilities from brain damage. So Gypsy is homeschooled,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: and she largely taught herself to read using things like
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Harry Potter books. She claims that Gypsy had leukemia, muscular dystrophy, epilepsy,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: vision and hearing impairment, asthma, and severe allergies to sugar.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Dee Dee also claims Gypsy is cognitively impaired at the
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: level of a young child. I know she would say
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: things to people like she only has the mental capacity of,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: you know, like a seven or eight year old or something,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: even as she got older.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Because I stopped taking her to school after the third grade.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Well, also, I think it's because if you tell everyone
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: that cognitively she's, you know... the age of like seven
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: or eight or something, then people don't ask a lot
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: of questions. They don't inquire. And if she says something
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: that doesn't make sense, like I can walk, they're like, oh, well,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: she doesn't know what.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: She's talking about. Let's not remember. She has cognitive difficulties.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: So Gypsy had a feeding tube placed in her in
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: the early 2000s. Gypsy could eat normally and secretly did
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: eat normally. Also, my question is, and I guess this
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: is just because the medical industry just is what the
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: medical industry is. Like in the documentary, they talk about
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: how really the medical industry is a business. So if
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: you have a mother that's pushing and saying she has
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: an eating disorder, she doesn't eat at home, I'm having
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: trouble with her, she's malnourished, she needs a feeding tube.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess a doctor says, okay, you must
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: know because you're the mother.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: And so there's not a lot of pushback. Right.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: And if there was pushback, she'd probably just go to
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: another doctor anyway. Right.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: She would doctor shop. So- She also had Botox injections
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: to treat supposed excessive drooling and later the removal of
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: those glands altogether. She had ear tube surgeries because her
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: mom claimed that she had hearing problems. She did have
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: eye muscle surgeries. She did have trouble with the eyes.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: That's the only thing that ever seemed legitimate to me.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: She had tooth extractions because her teeth rotted and her
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: teeth were rotten, likely because of the cocktail of medication
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: that she was given and side effects, poor care. Many
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: of her teeth were pulled and she had heavy medication,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: including anti-seizure drugs and painkillers that caused real side effects.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: Dee Dee also would shave Gypsy's head, saying it would
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: fall out anyway from cancer treatment. So Gypsy always looked
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: like a cancer patient. You know, also she was saying,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: and I thought this was sad, she didn't really have
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: any normal clothes. She said she really only had princess
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: dresses and she would wear wigs a lot. But she
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: didn't have normal play clothes like a kid. I think
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: her mom just kept her in this perpetual state of like.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: To keep her looking like.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: To keep her looking young and childlike. And so she
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: just always had princess dresses and wigs on, you know?
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: And I think that makes people just not question anything
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: if she just continually looks.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: young and incapable of growing.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: I do know that the mother also, when Gypsy started
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: to get older, her mother started changing her birth date
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: because she didn't want her to be older. She wanted
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: to keep her young. So when she was like, 12,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: she was saying she was nine. And then when she
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: was 15, she was saying that she was 12. And
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: I think she was even confused about how old that
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: she actually.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: She kind of forgot how old she was. Well, she probably...
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: Or she forgot her lies, right? She couldn't keep up
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: with her lies. Well, yeah.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're told that you have leukemia. You're told
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: that you have cancer. You're head shaved. You're using a wheelchair.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: And she's told consistently that she's younger than she really is.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: The family also received lots of donations, free trips, and
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: help from charities that These included Make-A-Wish. She received a
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Disney World trip.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: You know, that took them, although I guess it would
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: be good for Gypsy because at least she had some
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: moment of entertainment and joy. But that took a Make-A-Wish
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: from a kid that really was struggling and a family
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: that really was caring for their child.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: They also met celebrities, including country singer Miranda Lambert backstage.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: I bet you Miranda Lambert is for the mom. I
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: bet that was really more for the mom.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sure.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: I doubt Gypsy was... Actually, everything was for the mom.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: What are we thinking? Yeah.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Gypsy later described being hit, being restrained to her bed,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: and being threatened if she contradicted her mother in front
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: of doctors or others. Dee Dee kept her isolated from
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: her father's side of the family. You know, her father remarried,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: and she had a... I think when she got older,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: she ended up having a pretty close relationship with her stepmother.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: But I do.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: i just i feel badly because the dad every time
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: he's in an interview i really just get the con
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: i just feel like he's just a good guy he
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: just didn't know what to do and he was just
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: afraid to push too hard and he just thought she
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: was a good mom and he just believed everything that
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: she said and he said that he had sent around
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars and to the mother and and medical
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: bill like repayment like to help her with medical.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Bills with the fake medical with the fake medical.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Bills right Then in August of 2005, Hurricane Katrina hits Louisiana.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Dee Dee and Gypsy are evacuated and present themselves as
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: storm victims. Dee Dee claims that Gypsy's medical records were
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: destroyed in the flooding and this made it much harder
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: for new doctors to check her history. That really worked
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: out well for her because then when she moves to
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Missouri and she's seeing new doctors and she's telling them
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: all about the history of Gypsy and that she has
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: leukemia and that she can't walk and she has muscular
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: dystrophy and all these things and they asked to review
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: her medical records.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Now they just look over everything well she.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Says we there aren't any because we just came from
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: louisiana because they were a part of hurricane katrina right
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: she used that as an excuse to say it was
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: all destroyed which maybe it was i don't know if.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: I go to a doctor and be like oh my
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: kid has you know x y and z any medication
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: oh i don't have any records you just have to
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: go off my word Yeah.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: And I think that's crappy. I think they did. That's
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: why they explain in this, a lot of these documentaries
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: that I watched where they say the medical industry is
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: a business.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. That's why I was saying, I thought maybe
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: they'd take it like, okay, let's do some tests. Let's
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: like start over. And then they would start to be suspicious,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: but they didn't even do that. So it's even worse.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: In 2008, Habitat for Humanity builds the pair wheelchair accessible
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: house with a ramp and a hot tub. This is
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: in Springfield, Missouri. They also receive local media coverage and
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: community support. In 2007, Springfield pediatric neurologist Dr. Bernardo Flasterstein
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: examines Gypsy. Muscle tests and records he obtained gave no
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: basis for a muscular dystrophy diagnosis.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: No.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: And he believed that she could stand and bear weight.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: There we go.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: He suspected Munchausen by proxy and confronted Dee Dee. Dee
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Dee stopped taking Gypsy to him, and he did not
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: report it, partly because other doctors had accepted the diagnosis.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: You know, they told Gypsy on the phone when she
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: was in prison that a doctor had said in front
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: of her during a medical exam that you can walk,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: stand up, and the mom got really mad and said,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: we're leaving. And Gypsy said she didn't remember that ever happening.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: So I don't know if the doctor being interviewed was
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: like a CYA, like he was trying to cover himself
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: by saying I did I did notice that, you know,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: she could probably walk. And I did say that she
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: should stand up. And then the mom got mad and
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: stormed out. I don't know if he was saying that
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: to kind of cover himself or if that really happened.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Gypsy claims that she doesn't remember that ever happening. Right.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: And that she feels like if that did happen, she
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: would have remembered something.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, she said that part too? Like, that's something I
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: would remember? Yeah.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: So now we get to 2009. An anonymous caller asked
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: police to do a welfare check suggesting that Gypsy might
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: not be as sick as claimed. Dee Dee persuades the
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: officers that everything is fine and nothing comes of it.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: You know, my takeaway of Dee Dee is that she's
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: been a con artist most of her life. And, you know,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: we talked about earlier she got in trouble for check
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: fraud and things like that when she was early on
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: in her life. I just think that this woman was
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: a con artist from day one. And she was good
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: at it. And she was good at playing the part.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: She was good at manipulating doctors.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: That was her thing.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: That was her thing.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: That's just how she lived.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Right. That's how she excelled. She never had a job.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: And she probably didn't have any other interests other than
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: kind of fueling this. Right.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: And that's why she had to consistently keep Gypsy under
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: her control, young-looking, immature, not educated, so that she never
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: questioned anything. Right? She can't allow her to go out
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: there and talk to people and start questioning things. She
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: has to keep her... Yeah. young and ignorant through all
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: of this. In 2010, Gypsy, then 19, but presented as
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: much younger, tries to escape. She met a man online
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: at a sci-fi fantasy fan fest and went to a
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: local hotel with him. Dee Dee finds her, drags her home,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: and claims to the man and others that Gypsy is
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: a minor, even though at that time she was 19.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: So she would have been perfectly within her rights to
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: leave and go.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but she may not have felt that she could
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: do so.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: All right, then Gypsy goes online in secret. So Gypsy
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: creates a Facebook that her mom doesn't know about. So
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: you know, she and her mom have a joint Facebook
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: that her mom posts on. But Gypsy goes and makes
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: her own Facebook that her mom doesn't know about. So
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: now she has like a secret Facebook account. And she
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: uses the secret Facebook account to talk to a friend
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: of hers. It's like a neighbor. It's a girl. She's
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: a little bit older than Gypsy. I don't remember her name,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: but they interview her. But Gypsy was always reaching out
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: to her saying, I think of you as like a
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: big sister. I've never kissed a guy before. How do
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: I kiss? She starts telling her things that like a
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: normal teenage girl of that mind would talk about. Boys
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: and kissing and dates and things like that. Between 2012
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: and 2015, Gypsy... meets Nicholas. This is in 2012. Gypsy
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: meets Nicholas Godejohn from Big Ben, Wisconsin. The ironic thing
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: is that they, to me, is that they met on
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: a Christian singles dating site. He is about two years
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: older than her. He has autism and a history of
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: mental health problems. In 2013, he was charged with indecent
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: exposure for viewing pornography in a McDonald's for nine hours
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: and Nine hours? And he was fondling himself. I don't know.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: I can't walk in a McDonald's and walk out without
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: feeling like I smell like McDonald's. This guy was there
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: for nine hours?
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was watching porn, though. And playing with himself.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: The relationship is entirely online and secret. The two exchange
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: thousands of messages, often sexual and violent role play. Go
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: To John uses a dark alter ego called Victor. Gypsy
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: would later tell the court and documentaries that she pressed
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: him for years to kill her mother because she saw
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: no other way out. Go to John's defense argued that
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Gypsy manipulated him and that he lacked the capacity to deliberate.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: So then around the March of 2015 timeframe, go to
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: John travels to Springfield, Missouri. He and Gypsy go to
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: a movie theater and they see Cinderella. She sneaks away
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: from her mother to meet him and they have sex
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: in a bathroom. I don't know how she snuck away
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: from her mom, though.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: Her mom must have been asleep. Was that a theater bathroom?
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a theater bathroom.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Was it a theater bathroom? Was it a McDonald's bathroom?
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: Wait, what?
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know. The nine hours in a McDonald's, I
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: can already smell it.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: You can't.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: I know, you can't. I'm sorry.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: You can't get away from that.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: No, I can't. I know. I walk into, and I
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: eat Subway, but I can't leave without smelling like Subway. Okay,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: here is my- And then you go to Pete's Coffee,
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: and you come home, and you smell like Pete's. Yes.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: I know, it just, those aromas.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Sorry. Okay, I- I feel like you should, instead of
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: the smell.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: I don't understand. I know, I know, but that's what
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: comes to mind.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: I don't understand the smell because he's sat there for
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: nine hours.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: And watched porn. I know, I know.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: You're not even on the porn thing. You're just on
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: the smell. June of 2015. So June 9th of 2015,
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: this is the murder. Go to John comes back to Springfield, Missouri.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: And that night gypsy waited until her mother had fallen
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: asleep to invite go to John over. Gypsy had prepared gloves,
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: duct tape, and she had a knife for him. Go
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: to John stabs DD 17 times in the back while
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: she is sleeping. Gypsy hides in the bathroom with her
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: hands over her ears and Her hands are over her
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: ears because I don't know if I read it or what,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: but they said that she screamed a lot when she
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: was being stabbed 17 times.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: I think most people do.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: The two then have sex in Gypsy's room.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Did he wash his hands?
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: I doubt it.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: Did he keep the gloves on?
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Probably.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: What happened? That's weird. But it also shows their level
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: of kind of their mentality, right?
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Well, he's autistic and has mental disorders.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: He already has....
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Been arrested for watching porn for nine hours in McDonald's.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: So he clearly has.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Why did it take him nine hours to report it?
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, right?
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Like, you know, one more hour and we're calling the police.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: At hour eight, they're like, I don't know, give him
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: a little more time.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Like, wasn't it loitering at the beginning?
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: And wasn't it like inappropriate in the beginning?
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know why it took nine hours before someone.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: That's like multiple shifts. Like people were coming and going
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: and clocking in and out and they're refilling like Yeah.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Fixing the soft serve machine. Like there's all kinds of
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: things happening while this guy is. Yeah. They're for nine hours. Yeah.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: So they take about $ 4, 000 in cash that DeeDee kept
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: in the house and they stay briefly at a motel
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: in Springfield and then traveled by bus to go to
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: John's home in Wisconsin.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: I wonder if that was like the most freedom she had.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Like she felt so free. Oh, I'm sure. Her mom
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: is out of the picture.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: They have some cash and they're like, and they're on
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: the run, so to speak, meaning they're just out wherever
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: they wish.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: This is interesting though. They didn't want to leave the
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: murder weapon behind and they also didn't want to travel
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: with the murder weapon. So they actually put the knife
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: in an envelope and they mail it to his house.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: I found that so fascinating.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Like, ground? USPS or FedEx?
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure what carrier they used or if it
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: was like overnighted.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: But they wanted to hold on to it or they
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: were trying to hide it?
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: They mailed it to his house though. And then when
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: the police searched his house, they found it. I don't know.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: I didn't understand the thing.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Did he insure it?
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: They're like, what are the contents of the package, sir?
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: It's a murder weapon.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: I just murdered someone, but I didn't want to leave
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: it at the scene. I don't understand why they didn't
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: just hide it or throw it in a dumpster somewhere.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: But he mailed it to his house. June 14th of 2015.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: So this is five days later after the murder. So
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: she's murdered in the bedroom. On June 14th, 2015, a
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: post appears on Dee Dee's Facebook account crudely announcing that
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: she was dead. That's where that post says the bitch
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: is dead. So they have the joint Facebook account.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: It all comes clear to me now.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: So they have the Facebook account where she's posting things
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: about the loving relationship between the mom and the daughter
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: and the medical things and all the photos of them.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: Which is really all the mom.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: Or in the mom's direction.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine like you're used to looking at this
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: joint Facebook account and then all of a sudden it's
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: just a post that says the bitch is dead.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Which is then like, well, who posted that? Was it
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: the mom or the daughter at that time? People were
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: probably wondering. Because then they're like, if it's the daughter...
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: Because the daughter had a lot of ailments.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Well, let me read. So there's a post that says,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: the bitch is dead. But then there's also a comment
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: left below. And it says, I effing slashed that fat
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: pig and raped her sweet, innocent daughter. Her scream was
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: so effing loud, LOL. So that was another comment that
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: was made by either Gypsy or the boyfriend on the account.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it was Gypsy that did it.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: Or if it was the boyfriend. I don't know either.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: But if I were to guess, it would be him
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: because she– The scream was loud or something like that. Yeah.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: Then you're telling me she plugged her ears because she
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: probably didn't want to hear anything. Not that she couldn't
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: hear it, but.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Well, she would have had to given him access to
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: that Facebook account because she's the one that could get
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: on it.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: But I don't know if it's.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Friends and neighbors call the police because. obviously they're like, what?
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, there were people commenting like.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Well, they probably thought it was the mom that posted that. No,
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: they thought it was.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: A lot of people thought it was hacked first.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Okay. But aside from it being hacked, if
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: this account is constantly giving loving updates on her health
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: conditions and their journey and the process of everything... And
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: then all of a sudden it says that she's dead.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: They're going to be like, wait, this mom was loving
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: and kind and caring. And all of a sudden now
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: she doesn't care that she's dead. I would have thought
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: it was the mom.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: You would have thought it was the mom talking about
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: the daughter.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because the daughter was the one that was more
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: likely to have health issues.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: All right. So that night, so this is June 14th.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: This is when the Facebook post appears. That night, police
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: enter the house and they find Dee Dee's body in
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: her bedroom and find Gypsy's wheelchairs left behind. So she
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: has three wheelchairs. And all of them are still there.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: Well, they were all probably donated to for free.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, of course. At first, the public believes a disabled
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: young girl has been abducted. So that's what they think, right?
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: They think she was murdered and then the girl was kidnapped, right?
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: So it's like all APB, right? We have to find
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: this girl. She's been abducted by some crazy lunatic. On
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: June 15th of 2015, police traced the Facebook post to
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: an IP address in Wisconsin that Officers arrest Gypsy and
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: go to John at go to John's home and big bend.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: The public soon learns that Gypsy can walk because they
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: show her when she walks into her first court date,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: she walks in with her hands. You know, I mean
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: the people that know them, I've never seen her walk before.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Right. And then she.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: Walks into court. So, I mean, people are just like, what?
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like it's a miracle.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: She's 23 years old. She can walk. She's not the
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: teenager everyone believed. And everyone believes that she's younger, right?
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: They believed the age that they were told. Right.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Both are extradited to Greene County, Missouri and charged with
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: first-degree murder and armed criminal action. Gypsy is held in
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Greene County Jail. Doctors and investigators confirm she has none
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: of the major illnesses that Dee Dee claimed. Prosecutors and
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: her lawyers consider her abuse history... Central to the case. Well, obviously.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's like a defense attorney's, like, you know
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: what I mean? When you find out that.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: When you find out that you're representing someone who's involved
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: in a murder.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Like, I got a whole box full of evidence here. Right?
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: And then you're like, wait, this girl doesn't have cancer,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: doesn't have muscular dystrophy.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: She just tortured her whole life. She can walk.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: Right. Right. And she's just basically been held captive by
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: this mom and told to wear princess dresses.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: And not held captive like, I don't think the school
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: system's good. You need to stay home. Yeah. Which is
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: still an issue. But it's like constantly going to all
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: the doctors, taking everyone's money, shaving her head, making her
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: be in a wheelchair. Like that's different than just an
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: overprotective parent. Right.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: July 5th of 2016, Gypsy pleads guilty to second degree
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: murder and was ordered to spend 10 years in prison.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: So she didn't go to trial. She took a plea deal.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: HBO airs the documentary Mommy Dead and Dearest. In November
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: of 2018, Go To John goes to trial. Gypsy testifies
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: against him saying she met him online and that they
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: communicated secretly for three years before he came to Springfield
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: at her request. The defense pushed go to John's mental
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: condition as a factor in the crime. But despite this,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: the jury convicted him of first degree murder. He was
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: sentenced to life without parole plus 25 years for armed
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: criminal action. The prosecutor explained that the gap between the
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: two sentences this way, the two defendants had very different
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: roles and very different backgrounds with regard to this crime.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: What do you think?
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: I got a question.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: She got 10. She got 10 years because she took
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: a plea deal. He got life in prison.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, I have a quick question. Yeah. She testified for
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: the defense or the prosecutor?
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: The prosecution. Why? She testified against him. That might have
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: been part of her plea deal.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay. I was going to say why, but it's like, well,
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: he is the one who pulled the trigger. And yeah,
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: she is trying to- Well, he's the one that used
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: the knife. She's trying to defend herself.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: The knife.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Sorry, knife. You don't pull the trigger.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: I know what you're saying.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: But yeah, you're right. It was a knife. 17 times.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: You know, though- In the back. I saw- the initial
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: interview of him when they bring him in and they,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: and the investigator interviews him, he's on the spectrum. He
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: has mental disorders. I mean, we talked about the McDonald's
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: things and we made fun of it, but clearly he's not.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Well, I made fun of the employees. Yeah.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: But I mean, as soon as they asked him, Did
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: you do it? He said, yeah. I just want to
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: be honest. I did it. And I did it because
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: I love her. And she asked me to do it.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: And we want to be together.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: Well, you got to think of his point of view.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know his level of mental ability. It sounds
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: like he genuinely thought he did the right thing. He
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: saved her. It's not like, oh, my mom's protective. She
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: won't let us date, which we've seen that a million times. Mm-hmm.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: This is like, he sees her being tortured and abused.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: And with his simple mind, he eliminated threat. I, I
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: just felt badly for him because it was evident to
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: me just in the small interview that I saw that
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: he wasn't, he wasn't a killer.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Well, He wasn't functioning at full capacity that he had
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: a legitimate mental disorder. I'm not saying that he should
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: not be punished. Obviously, someone that kills that easily by
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: someone saying.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: Hey, somebody did something wrong to me.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: But I didn't know if prison.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Would help him recover or be proper kind of restitution.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, so he was sentenced to prison?
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: For life.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: And he's serving?
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: Okay. So with no parole.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: No parole.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: So he's in jail, in prison forever.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: Forever.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: Here's the thing. And he has a, he has a,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: there's a concern with his mentality. Yes. And that's known.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: That's not a, that's not just us kind of speculating.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: That's like.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: No, I think it's confirmed.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: That's an issue.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: That he's autistic. I don't know as to what degree
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: on the spectrum.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: But they, they acknowledged his mental challenges. And then you
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: have Clancy. who everyone is bending over backwards, trying to
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: figure out how do we handle this sensitive matter where
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: three kids were murdered by their mother and everyone's protesting
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: and understanding of, I don't understand how you can be
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: understanding of someone killing their three kids because of the post,
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: but whatever. But then this guy, it's like, screw him. Yes.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: Screw him.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: Yes. I didn't see anyone crying for him.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: And now he's in there for life. Life. Yeah. And
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: that can't be, you know how it is. You have
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: someone with autistic tendencies or is on the spectrum. You
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: think they're going to get what they need in prison
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: to get through the days? No. That's right.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: No. So she goes to prison 2016 to 2023.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: She was paroled in December of 2023.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: She earns her GED, gives media interviews, and receives therapy.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: She has also said repeatedly that prison felt more free
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: to her than the life with her mother. You know,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: I saw her give lots of interviews, and she does
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: say that when she was in prison, she said she
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: was actually happy because it's the most freedom she'd ever had.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: She got to pick what she wanted to eat, and
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: she got to walk around, and she got to talk
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: to people, and she got to let her hair grow out,
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: and all these things. So she actually felt very free
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: in prison.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Well, she was more free in prison. Right.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Around 2019 to 2020, she is briefly engaged to Ken Urker,
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: who wrote to her in prison. Their engagement ended in 2020.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: She then goes on to marry Ryan Scott Anderson, a
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: Louisiana teacher she met through letters. They have a ceremony
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: in the prison. In December of 2023, her parole is approved.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: She was set to be freed after serving about 85%
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: of her sentence as required by state law and was
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: also given time served for the year she spent in
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Greene County Jail prior to her guilty plea. 2019 to
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: present go to john after his conviction he appealed he
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: argued that the trial court had abused its discretion and
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: excluding testimony from a defense psychological expert about autism spectrum
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: disorder and its impact on go to john's ability to
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: deliberate at the time of the murder you know that's
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: sad to me that there was no evidence allowed in
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: about where he is on the spectrum and what his
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: mental capacity would have been based upon his disorder and
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: where he's at. Like, they didn't allow any expert.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: It wasn't really brought in like we had speculated.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: No, I didn't say it was.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: Wow, I just assumed it. Yeah, again, I don't see
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: anyone out there protesting at that time because he had challenges.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, no one's running around and, you know, praising
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: him and asking him to be released and understanding his
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: mental state.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: In August of 2022, a hearing is held on his
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: post-conviction motion in which his lawyers argued his trial counsel
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: had been ineffective. The judge denied the motion. Around December 2023,
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: weeks before Gypsy's release, his public defender files another appeal
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: arguing his mental state did not meet the requirement for
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: first-degree murder and the jury should have only found him
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: guilty of second-degree murder. The filing also says he had
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: been offered a life in prison plea deal but went
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: to trial hoping for a sentence closer to Gypsy's 10 years.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: He remains in prison serving life without parole. Um, again, I, I, yeah,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's interesting to me that the Clancy case
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: was all about her mental state. It wasn't about whether
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: she did it or not. It was about deciding whether
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: she acted with premeditation and that she had clear and
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: concise thinking to know what she was doing. So it
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: was all about mental state. Now you're talking about someone.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: That's confirmed that's autistic and has a mental disorder. And
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: they don't want to hear about his mental state. They
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: don't want to hear anything about it. Not allowed to
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: talk about it. Can't let any evidence in. No psychologist
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: is allowed to testify.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: And what do the jurors think? And I don't know.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: But let's say jurors come out. Then they later learn. Like, what? Like,
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: that would have changed my opinion. I know.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: So Gypsy is released on parole from the Missouri prison
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: after serving more than seven years for her role in
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: the murder. This is on December 28th of 2023. In
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: January of 2024, Lifetime airs the docu-series, The Prison Confessions
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: of Gypsy Rose Blanchard, and she releases a companion book.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: Her social media following grows rapidly and she becomes a
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: celebrity in her own right. You know, I never really
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: knew how I felt about that. Again, it's like what
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: we talk about when you talk about, you know, you're
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: not allowed to profit from your crimes, but she's obviously profiting.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: But then again, this isn't, it's kind of a gray
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: area when it comes to her because she was, she
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: took a plea deal. She did spend, you know, eight, seven,
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: eight years in prison. She was part of the murder,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: even though she didn't actually stab her mother.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: You're saying she checks all the bosques of being a criminal. Right.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: And having committed a crime. Right. And here she is,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: but she's benefiting indirectly. I mean, what if you commit
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: a crime, you go to jail, you come out, and
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: now all these women want you, right? Because you're at ex-con.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: And is he profiting off of the crime?
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just something to think about. It's
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: a very gray area.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: I think profiting off the crime is more like you
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: write a script of the crime itself and you sell it,
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: or you write a book on the crime itself and
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: you sell it.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: Well, she's writing books about what she went through.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: She's got to do something to move on.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: So she separates from Ryan Anderson, that's her first husband,
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: and reconnects with Ken Urker. She had dated Urker before
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: marrying Anderson. And after the divorce, the two reconnected. He
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: actually wrote to her because he watched that docu-series that
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: came out, Mommy Dead and Dearest.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: Dead and Dearest.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: Mommy Dead and Dearest. So he watched that. Ken watched
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: that and then wrote her a letter and said that
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: he watched it and that he sympathized with her and
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: he felt badly for her. And then that's how they
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: ended up connecting.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: Reconnecting.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: She publishes the memoir, My Time to Stand, and her
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: divorce from Anderson becomes final. Then Lifetime launches the follow-up series,
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: Gypsy Rose, Life After Lockup, in July of 2024, and
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: she announces that she is pregnant. Then in December 28th
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: of 2024, Gypsy and Ken have a daughter together named Aurora,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: and she is born exactly one year after Gypsy's release
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: from prison. Then in June 24th of 2025, Gypsy's parole
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: ends and an Instagram statement. She says she has taken
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: accountability and will take back my life. She calls go
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: to John deeply disturbed, but says he still knew right
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: from wrong and that his autism diagnosis does not excuse
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: what he did. She also acknowledges what she called unintentional
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: manipulation of him, which she attributes to trauma and fear
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: of abandonment rather than malice. I like that. I mean,
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: it is interesting how she has zero exceptions for him.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Like he was acting with a clear mind. Who cares
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: that he had autism? Like he knew exactly what he
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: was doing. I didn't know what I was doing because
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: I had been manipulated by my mother for so many years.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's probably truth to both. I mean, both
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: of these people just seem not mentally sound. You have
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: two people that are struggling that come together.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: I struggle as it is just with, like relationships, right?
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: Like managing problems.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: You struggle.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: Well, I think, I don't think you struggle. I struggle.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: So no, but really, I mean, people in general struggle
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: in relationships in terms of like navigating issues and ups
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: and downs. I can't imagine she has an ability to
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: do that even remotely close to a typical adult. And
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: I don't blame her for that. Right.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: So we get to October 1st of 2026. Gypsy's fiance,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: Ken Urker, is found dead. This is why Gypsy Rose
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: is back on the news. And that's why we wanted
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: to do this episode on her because she's been, this
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: situation has been all over the news feeds.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: And the manner of death was?
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: The Lafourche Sheriff's Office confirmed that officers responded to a
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: Louisiana residence on Thursday, October 1st, after a call around
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: 6.15 p.m. came in. According to TMZ, Urker was discovered
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: by a family member named after he did not respond
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: when Blanchard texted him happy birthday. He was 34 and
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: he died on his birthday. At that time, Gypsy and
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: Ken were spending time apart when his death occurred, but
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: they were never actually broken up. They allegedly had plans
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: to move into a new home together. No official cause
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: of death has been released. Gypsy told people that she
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: believes Urker died of an overdose, but said she does
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: not know what substance he took or whether it was intentional.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: Or does she have any proof or believe that that's it?
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, she just speculated. Yeah.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: His sister Autumn confirmed his death in a TikTok live
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: on October 1st and said his last words to her were,
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: I love you. Gypsy called Urker an amazing father and
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: said she was devastated and in disbelief and said he
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: would remain her soulmate. I read in an article that
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: I think it was a family member. Someone said that
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: when they found him that there was some type of
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: drug substance found in the bathroom and that he was
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: bleeding kind of out of his arm and that it looked,
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: it looked like some type of overdose syringes or, I
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: don't know, maybe that was part of it too, but
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: there hasn't been an official toxicology report or a medical
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: examiner that's released his cause of death. So at this
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: point it's all speculation. Um, gypsy has been invited to
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: Ken's funeral in Texas and, that his family is putting together.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: She would also like to hold a service of her
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: own for those that cannot travel to Texas. You know,
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: the whole situation is just sad. It's like every time
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: she seems to move forward, it's just another step backwards
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: in her life. But you know what I will say?
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: And I, I was watching these documentaries and I was
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: listening to her interviews and her, the prison interviews and
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: then the life after lockup. And then I watched some
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: other documentary for, for someone who's spent the majority of
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: their life just being locked manipulated and controlled by their
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: mother and not allowed to go to school and not
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: allowed to grow up and not allowed to experience real
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: world situations or date or have friends. She speaks very well.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: She sounds highly intelligent. She speaks well. She has a very,
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: I would say, highly educated vocabulary. She explains herself well.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: It was interesting to me, I guess, maybe the juxtaposition
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: between how she was treated.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: Her lack of schooling and how she was treated. You're right.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: Right. And then to go to prison. But she got
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: her GED in prison, which I think is great.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: I was a part of it.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: But just the way, I have to say, I was very,
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: very impressed by the way that she held herself and
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: the way that she spoke. She was very interesting, very intelligent,
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: very articulate. And I just found that really interesting that
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: she hadn't, I don't know. I guess from all of
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: that abuse, it hadn't really affected.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: Her mind so much. If it did have an effect
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: on her, she got back on track when she went
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: and pursued her GED and things like that. Hopefully that
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: level of education and that knowledge she has will help
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: her kind of live a more normal life and maybe
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: even contribute. Yeah.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: Anyway, I thought that was interesting. I just found her
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: mannerisms and her way of speaking to be really compelling.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: She sounded very, very intelligent. So I thought that was interesting.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: You know, I just wanted to say one more thing.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: When I was watching the doc, I don't remember which
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: documentary it was, but they interviewed a lot of her
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: relatives in Louisiana. So it was Dee Dee's relatives they
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: were interviewing. They were interviewing her dad. And then Dee
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: Dee had several brothers and they were interviewing the brothers.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: So those would all be Gypsy's uncles. They were talking
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: about how at one point Dee Dee had a stepmom.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: So her dad remarried. Her mom died. Her dad remarried.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: And then all the brothers in the family were speculating
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: that Dee Dee had allegedly possibly tried to kill the
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: stepmother with Roundup. They were saying that they saw her
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: put Roundup in her food.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: And I thought, this is insane. Like this family is
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: just like she was putting Roundup in the stepmom's food.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: You know what Roundup is?
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: Well, it kills weeds. I know that.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But it comes in a little squirt bottle. Yeah.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: Is that a gallon? Yeah. Jug. And then it's got
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: the little windy cord and a little wand. Yeah. Is
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: that how she was squirting it? I guess.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: She's like. That stands out. Yeah. She would have been
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: better off just having it in a little bottle and
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: pouring it in.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: She needed arsenic. It's a little more discreet.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, you like. That's your. That's your poison of choice. Arsenic.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: I was watching East of Eden. So it made me
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: think of that. But anyway.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: All right. All right.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for listening to Legally Brunette.
• 49:13
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• 49:15
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• 49:22
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• 49:30
  Speaker 1: much for listening.