Latest / Big Dog Lukie Boxing Podcast / Boxing Podcast: Canelo Alvarez vs. Christian Mbilli Fight Week

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Boxing Podcast: Canelo Alvarez vs. Christian Mbilli Fight Week · Big Dog Lukie Boxing Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now my second guest, George Jakovic.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: He's a great,
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: great boxing mind,
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: and we're going to try to get him on more and more as we move forward on
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: the program.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get George's thoughts on this just very, very strange fight week.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, everybody.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: It is your man, Lukie, and I am back with an emergency podcast.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: We know you love the emergency podcast, and we had to get a boxing expert.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: He's got his own Substack.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: He's got his own YouTube channel.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: George Jakovic.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: I hope I said your name right.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: Nailed it.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Nailed it.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: And like I've always respected George a ton.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, he's done various different works in boxing, in the boxing community.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure if you want to get into that or we can just start talking boxing.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's up.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Listen, we can jump in anywhere.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: But for people that don't know, I was with HBO for about 15 years.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's where I got my start.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I got my start in boxing when I first saw Sugar Ray Leonard.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: That was my real start.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: I was with HBO for 15 years and I've been In the industry, doing stories on fighters.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: And look, that's why we're both here, because we love boxing and we love talking about boxing.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of why I wanted to get you on because this is the ultimate,
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: if you love boxing, we're going to talk about it, but what the heck?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because Canelo's fighting in Billy in Saudi Arabia and it has contexts
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: that I don't love,
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: which means adult stuff like unrest and all these things I go to boxing to escape
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: from.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to propose a question to you is,
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: how do you look at this fight week and are you able to separate it as just a fight
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: or do you have to look at the situation surrounding it?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: You can't separate it.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: You really can.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: And as much as boxing gets hammered because of,
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: bad decisions,
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: bad refs,
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: whatever,
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: the fact that this is taking place in a war zone,
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: the level of ignorance that's on display, even for boxing, it's major.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: They're having a war.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: The airport was bombed.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean...
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: Most people know the facts that are following this fight.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Can you imagine the Super Bowl this year being in the Ukraine or Russia?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: It would never happen.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: And the NFL would get hammered.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: But boxing, they're having a fight in a war zone.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, OK, no big deal.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: It is a big deal.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: And, Lukie, it's hard to separate it.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think much attention has been paid to the fight
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: because all you're hearing about is This fighter's not going.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: Robert Garcia's not going.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: How are fighters going to get there?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Is the broadcast team going to be there,
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: which now I think they're going to be in the UK calling the fight, which is...
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: Listen, I can't separate it unless asked,
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: which we're going to do, unless I'm asked a question on the fight itself.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's really...
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's not even about being a bad look.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's just...
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: People have gotten killed in that country recently at that airport,
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: and they're having a fight there.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Why?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm having a hard time separating what's happening and the fight as an event.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think that my co-host for my Sunday show,
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Dakota, it kind of spoke to the repulsive greed in boxing right now.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it just feels like this is going on strictly because of money.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Canelo wants to get a really big payday.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: And if not, this fight probably wouldn't happen.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: And we're kind of setting a weird precedent in boxing where...
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Anything is on the table for boxing because money seems to be the golden standard.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: We're getting to a place where we just saw Shakur Stevenson.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: He obviously didn't take a fight with Zufa.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: I assume that was over money.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Everything seems to be so much about money and less about legacy.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what drove you and me to the sport and were passionate was legacy was
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: as much a part as money.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm kind of torn because...
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: I grew up in boxing in the 80s and 90s when you could see it on free TV.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: I was a kid.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: I made boxing scrapbooks.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: But I look in those scrapbooks now and a lot of those fighters,
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: they gave everything,
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: Frank the Animal Fletcher who just died,
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Matthew Saad Muhammad,
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: guys like that,
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: Bobby Chacon who gave everything and they were thrilling and they fought everyone
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: and they died broke and they died broken.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't, Matthew Saad Muhammad has an amazing legacy.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: And Trish Dixon can tell you he died penniless and he was injured.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't blame the fighters for trying to get the money.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: I don't.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: But you're right.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Legacy, it's like it no longer means anything.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: So it's swayed from one way where fighters, some weren't well paid back in the day to now.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: These guys are getting so much money.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: Lukie, if you,
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: the way it is now,
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: it's like if you and I are fighters,
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the middleweight champ,
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: you're the number one contender, you've knocked out everyone.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, hmm,
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: I can make five million to fight Lukie,
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: but man, I can fight this guy who I know I can beat for four million.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: Why should I fight Lukie?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to fight this other guy.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's Unfortunately, that's the way it is.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: And Shakur, I'm from Jersey.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm from New Jersey.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm very partial to New Jersey fighters.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: But Shakur was throwing around the four kings.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: You can't do that.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: You can't do that.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: Not only a different era, but they all fought each other.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: The four kings he's proposed, those four names, they haven't all fought each other.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't look like they will because Shakur and Haney, they're not fighting now.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: So...
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's like swung the other way.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think all fighters are like that.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think fighters are scared of each other,
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: but fighters were severely underpaid in the past,
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: and now a lot of them are really overpaid,
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: and everyone wants to blame Mayweather,
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: but I don't think it's only Mayweather's fault.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's a It's just how it is,
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: and that's why we don't see the biggest fights, the fights that fans want to see.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's why they don't get made, for the most part.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: They were when Turkey came around,
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: but now,
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, it doesn't seem like they're long for the game, so it's how it is now.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: Sadly, that's how it is.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe a market correction, sadly.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's in the chat.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: They said it's a timeless tales.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: A year was not for the faint of hearted.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good point, possibly.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you think boxing isn't unionized?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to take?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, my gosh.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, because it's because of greed and money.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's everyone.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many different.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: This is this is elementary stuff.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: There's the NBA.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: There's the NFL.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: There's MLB.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's all unionized.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's one league in boxing.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's the Wild Wild West, and everyone's getting paid.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: The WB, all the organizations are getting paid.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's a free-for-all.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: So Zufa, look, PBC came in, I don't know how long, 10 years ago, whenever it was.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and they were going to take over.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: They threw all this money in,
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: and I worked a lot of shows,
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: and they had these big sets,
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: and they were going to take over boxing,
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: have their own titles, You see how that worked out.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: Zufa apparently wants to make it like the UFC.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: If that's going to happen, it won't be for decades.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: Because how are we going to get rid of the WBA and the WBC and the IBF?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: They all want to keep getting paid.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: So it's all money and greed.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: And there's nothing and nothing is, it's all chaos, man.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's all chaos.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone who Knows boxing, knows it.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone knows the problem.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: And they know how to solve it.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, make it like MLB.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: How do you do that?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's the how do you do that?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think the other problem, too,
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: is like you look at unions and it tends to go with civil rights issues
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: or humanitarians and the people that might have the leverage of.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's another thing is...
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's that the people associated with boxing for unions tend to be older fighters,
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: guys that are perceived as down and out losers because the guys who are up at
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: the top,
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: it doesn't always benefit them because they're reaping the rewards and they're kind
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: of like, hey, I made it.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: I want to get as much money as possible.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that creates this cycle of like there's never leverage for a collective bargaining.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: It is what it is now.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: I just don't.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: See how it's going to change.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: I really don't.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I know I see what Zufa wants to do, but,
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: they signed the arguably the best fighter in the sport one month and
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: then three months later he leaves without even fighting for them.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: So.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's not easy being a boxing.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know what's tough, Lukie?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: When you try to explain boxing to the non-boxing fan, which you probably have.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: You've got friends who aren't huge boxing fans.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: And when you try to explain it to them, you sound like an idiot.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: And you sound like you're not making sense.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: And you sound dumb.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: But that's boxing.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: You have to explain, oh no, well, there's four champions, but he's the best champion.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: No, these guys haven't fought.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: Why haven't they fought?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, they can't come to terms with money.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: It hasn't changed.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: It has not, not since I've been alive.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: And since I've been alive, when I first got into boxing, there was the WBA and WBC.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: And now it's up to four and five and...
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: It is what it is.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, it's...
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: So let's get into this fight, which is Canelo versus Zimbeli.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: I do think that it's one of the more interesting and telling Canelo bouts of his career.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not just hyperbole.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, it's not the Trout fight, the Lara fight, the Golovkin fights.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I think since the Dimitri Bivol fight, I haven't looked at Canelo the same way.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen him as a guy...
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Who doesn't have the same enthusiasm.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: He's been almost like a retired fighter who looks like he's taking fights
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: that he has some advantages in physically or with experience.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: And he's collected money.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's like Canelo the businessman at the tail end of his career.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is a fight that I think fascinates me.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because in Billy, probably in his prime would have lost to Canelo.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: But there is like a question I have that when you make enough money,
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: when you've had a 21 year long pro career,
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: you just get old and not want to work as hard against a guy who's known for volume
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: and overwhelming guys.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's my fascination is in Billy has aspects of that style that makes
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: an older fighter look old.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to throw it to you.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: What do you I agree 100%.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: When you look at it logically, Canelo, you can see his decline.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: He's still a good fighter, but he's clearly in decline.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: Hasn't fought since he was dominated by Crawford.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: This type of fighter, you have to go back to Canelo's like, Prime.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: I remember when he fought James Kirkland and James Kirkland,
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: I know it was a different stage of his career,
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: but James Kirkland was like a aggressive swarmer was just in your face and was going
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: to take you out.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: And Canelo, that's one of Canelo's best fights.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: This is a 2015, I think they fought.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it's 11 years ago.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's very intriguing when you just think about the fight.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: I've heard a lot of people talk about it and,
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: and My thoughts are,
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: and I think a lot of people agree, that Canelo has got to hurt him early.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: He's got to show some authority in there because if not,
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: if M'Billy is able to take his power and keep coming
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: and making him work like you were saying,
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: how a 35,
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: 36-year-old Canelo doesn't want to work and he's forced to,
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: then we have something else.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's good.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: We just don't know.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, and Billy has shown a good chin.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, to beat him, you're going to have to go through it.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: Does Canelo want to go through that?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: He's obviously taking the fight because he thinks he can win.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's why fighters take fights.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: And Billy,
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure and Billy thinks he can win,
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: but he's also fighting Canelo and you're getting that money.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: You have to take it.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel bad for him, Billy,
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: because he's I'm sure he didn't get to travel the way Canelo traveled over
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: the Riyadh.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe he did.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe he flew private,
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: but he's got to hope this fight goes through because he's getting,
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm assuming, the biggest purse of his career.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: But the fight itself, yeah, there's a lot of questions.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: How's Canelo going to look?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: He's on the decline.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: If he can't hurt Mbili,
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: And get that respect and back him Billy off, then it's going to be really interesting.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Canelo's been a pro since
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: 2005, which is crazy.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like 21 years, he's been a pro.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: He's closing in on 70 fights.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: So, man, the fight itself is very intriguing.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's not...
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: Who knows?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it'll be a great fight, but like those reasons you brought up, it's very intriguing.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: I want to see what happens when Mbili doesn't move.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's the fifth,
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: sixth round,
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: and Mbili is in his face,
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: and Canelo, we know Canelo's economical, and Mbili is the opposite of that.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: He just lets it flow, so it's going to be an interesting fight, I think.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the more insight from mere lack of insight,
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: I guess we could say,
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: is that to me,
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Canelo fought Mayweather, obviously becomes, quote, unquote, the Mayweather guy.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: But then he loses to Golovkin, in my opinion, labeled a draw.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then he becomes kind of the Golovkin style.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he moves away from being the elusive guy and now he's in your face.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then he loses to Bivol and he's kind of like, I can't do the Bivol thing.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like he kind of took a step back.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: And he hasn't gotten a knockout, I believe, in five years since Caleb Plant.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's an assumption to this fight that Mbilly gets hit clean and
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: that he's probably going to get dropped because Canelo's this big puncher.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Mbilly's also an Olympian.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think people are very much underestimating what Mbilly does because he's so much a motor guy.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: I just think it's a much harder fight than people think.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: Unless somehow...
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard to turn back the clock.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: It happens.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: Some fighters are able to turn back the clock for a night, but I don't know.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you have to look at the past and look at the previous fights.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: Not just the last fight, but the last few years.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: He's not the fighter he was five years ago.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then Billy does have some credentials behind him.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: He's a world-class fighter.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, he's a champion now, which that's another thing.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: He's a champion, but he never had that moment where he won the title.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: You're the interim champion.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: There's another thing I hate about boxing,
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: and maybe the fighters don't care,
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: but a lot of them now, they don't have the moment I became champ.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: You're an interim champ,
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: and then when the belt is vacant, oh, you get the email, hey, you're champ.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they don't care,
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: but as a fan,
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: you love to say, oh,
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: I remember when this guy beat that guy and became a champion,
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: and now it's like less and less.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: You're the interim champion, and then, oh, suddenly you're moved up to champ.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: So he's a champion who was given a title because this interim stuff is nonsense,
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: but I think he's a really good fighter, and he's He's got heart.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: He's got power.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: He's shown a good chin.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: Hasn't shown great defense.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: We'll see.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's a super intriguing fight.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of those fights.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: Now that I'm talking to you finally about the fight,
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm getting more amped up about it rather than thinking,
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: God, I hope no one dies or gets injured on their way there or when they're there.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think another thing I think about is like Mark Ramsey is one of
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: the best talent evaluators and he's a really good coach.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: To me, I consider him a boxing genius.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: And he's in Mbili's corner and, you know, he's got this proven track record.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: He helped Arthur Betterby have arguably become one of the best fighters in the world.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oslis Iglesias, I think, is a fighter who's criminally underrated.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: I have him as a pound for pound level fighter.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: He's looked utterly dominant.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: And him being in the corner of Mbili to me is something not a lot of people are talking about.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great point.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: And Ramsey is, I think Ramsey is a great trainer.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: And go back to David Lemieux.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: David Lemieux was a guy, he turned his career around and Lemieux became a champion.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: He lost to Golovkin, but he improved under Ramsey.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's funny, Lukie,
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: I was in Canada in August for another project and I interviewed Mark Ramsey
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: and he I think Mbili's training was starting in like three days.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I was asking him about that fight.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: He didn't say too much.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: But I did text him the other day just to say, hey, I hope you made it to Riyadh safely.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: And his response was, I made it.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: Everything's fine.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: So he didn't go into depth, but that's a great point.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: He's an excellent trainer.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: And he's another weapon for Mbili.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: And And you can't overlook that.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the trainers don't do the fighting, sure, but the guy's proven.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: He's a proven, like, world-class trainer.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: And he can only help, and Billy, fight night.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's like,
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of like,
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think I get slack sometimes because I always think Boxer of the Year,
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: like Oshaki Foster is probably Boxer of the Year.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Trainer of the Year is probably the trainer of the best boxer.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: And part of that is typically you see these long lasting relationships and they develop a path.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: They develop a routine, a consistency.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: And sure, they don't take the punches in the ring, but there's a lot of poverty.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of grinding through it.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of Kind of helping the fighter in those low moments staying focused.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that there is kind of pushback on trainers that the fighter makes the trainer.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: And for most, like,
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: if Gennady Golovkin or Terrence Crawford showed up at my house,
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: I could probably be in the conversation.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: It has nothing to do with my ability to train people.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that they can get in the ring and figure some things out.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: That being said,
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think a guy like Mark Ramsey is someone that puts all the fighters he works with
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: in the position to succeed.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's getting overlooked in the modern era a tad bit.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I can't add anything to that.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, fighters have to do the fighting.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: But when you have someone in the corner giving you good advice or motivating you,
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, Angelo Dundee, Some people don't think he was a great trainer.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think he was, but he was a great motivator.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: He knew what to say.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: When he told Sugar Ray Leonard, he was blowing it.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: Sugar Ray Leonard came out and knocked out Tommy Hearns a round or two later.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: Little things like that, Teddy Atlas.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: You want to go into a fight with every asset you can have besides being in shape
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: and being confident.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: You have to have someone in your corner that can tell you.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, how many fights have we seen where they go to the corner and
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: the trainers aren't saying anything?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: And the fighters who are broadcasting the fight,
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: they rip them apart saying, this guy's not telling them what to do.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: Or vice versa, a trainer is giving great advice and the fighter saying, I agree with everything.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like Andre Waters said, I agree with everything he said to him.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: The fighter asked the fight, but don't you want in anything someone advising you?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: And telling you how to be successful, I mean, I would.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: I would want the best trainer I could get in my corner to help me fight night.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: And he's got one of the best in boxing in his corner.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm going to go controversial here, so hopefully I don't get myself in trouble.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I learned this a while back from watching broadcasts.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think oftentimes young trainers try to be too technical and
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: And they don't know how to speak to the emotion that the fighter is experiencing in
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: that given moment.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the really good trainers can give you some technical,
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: but they also know how to speak to the fighter and the spirit that
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: that person's feeling.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: And for me,
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like bad corners are kind of giving you a lot of technical stuff and a bunch
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: of things and it's rushing at you.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: And those Ramsey, the Bobby Benton, they're like, come on, bro, you got to do this.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: And they might say something technical, but there's a little bit of like, what are you doing?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's a little bit of figuring out a way to motivate along with the technique.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's that highest level of coaching.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Bo Mack's real good at it.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: A bunch of those guys.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: You got 60 seconds.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, man, you hit it on the head.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: Some of these guys, it's like they're reading a playbook.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: And come on, talk to a fighter.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: You've interviewed many fighters and you asked them,
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: Are you listening to everything in between rounds?
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of times they'll say no, but if a trainer knows their fighter, they know what to say.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: They know how to motivate them.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: They know how to get their attention because sometimes you see
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: the fighters looking around and they know how to get their attention.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: Chris Algieri told me once,
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: and I forget his trainer's name,
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: and he's passed away, but when he fought Provodnikov.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: When Chris fought Provodnikov,
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: and I can't remember the trainer's name,
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: but Chris said he was so dialed in,
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: his trainer,
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: he and his trainer,
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: to the game plan,
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: to what to do,
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: that his trainer only had to say a few things in between rounds sometimes just
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: to get him to not do something or to do something.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: When he got his orbital bone broken, immediately, like, and Chris...
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: If you've ever heard Chris talk about that,
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: it was savage what happened to him with Provodnikov and the effects of
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: that happening in the fight, the biggest fight of his life.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: He said he got back to the corner and his trainer told him, like, you still got the lead eye.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: You still got the lead eye.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: You're good.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: And immediately he knew what that meant.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's my lead hands, my jab hand.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still OK.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to be OK. Yeah, you have.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: There's psychology involved and there's just being smart.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: What to say, what you just saw as a trainer in those three minutes.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: When I have 60 seconds where the fighter, first of all, he's tired, he's getting water.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, who knows what's going through his mind.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe he's buzzed from taking a shot.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: You just got to be smart.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: And in that 60 seconds, get across to your fighter yourself.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: What he can use.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of it, that is the relationship they have with each other.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: Some of these trainers, you're right, they just spew, they just talk.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like they give you a book, a chapter on how to fight this guy.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: And how much do you think that fighter really retained?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: But you're right, 100%.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: I call them just saying stuff,
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: trainers,
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: because the guy's more than likely has a concussion or at least like something.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, you can't be like, let me talk to you about philosophy.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Let me tell you about this deep movie I saw.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like more than likely, you got like a war traumatized guy.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: And like the good ones are like, hey, can you breathe?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: How you doing?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: And if they're like, probably shouldn't go too technical there.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been thinking a lot about that Algeria-Provodnikov fight because
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: the courage Chris showed in that fight,
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's the worst way a title fight could have started.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like he basically is down twice, his eye swells up.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if you watch it outside of Andre Ward, the broadcast was pretty favorable to Provodnikov.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then he wins the fight.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: And people were critical of the broadcast of Shock Foster versus...
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Navarrete this weekend.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of saying the broadcast doesn't fight.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the fighters fight.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: The broadcasters just call what they see.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes they get it right.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they get it wrong.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: But you watch Algeria against Provodnikov.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: He couldn't have cared that the broadcast saw it one way.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: He fought his fight and won a world title.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking about that, how,
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think as fight fans,
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: we bring a lot of emotion, whether we try to be unbiased or not.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: And when a fight doesn't go our way,
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we put some of our stuff into,
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: oh, the referee, oh, the judge, oh, the commentators.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what's been the hardest thing about me being trying to be
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: a writer or being a pundit is people bring their emotion onto you.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: And you've got to be that neutral guy.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: You can't go up and down with them because you have to...
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be a baseline for their enjoyment of the sport.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really know what my question from here is, but feel free to jump in.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: No, I agree.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we all bring biases and everything else into it,
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: but talking about the Algeria-Provodnikov fight,
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: yeah, I remember watching that fight live.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm rooting for Chris.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, I didn't know him back then.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: I know him now, but I'm rooting for Chris.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: And to have that disastrous first round,
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: I remember thinking, man, I don't think there's any way this goes past two.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: And he got up and he went back to his game plan and fought just
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, now I'm so locked into that fight now that we're talking about it.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: He fought just a great fight.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, the broadcasters don't always get it right.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: Writers bring bias into things sometimes.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: We like to all try and be objective.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: We try to be, but we're human.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're not.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: Over the years, I've...
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: Become friends with some fighters and I'm always rooting for them
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: and I'm thinking they've got a shot to win.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: Even if I looked at it analytically, they may not.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: You bring that emotion in as a person, as a writer, as a broadcaster.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it just happens.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think it also makes people care because it shows that you love it.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: I want to do two last things with you.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Historical comp, Christian and Billy, who would you compare to?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: Man, historically, he's just one of those pressure fighters.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I brought up James Kirkland.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: James Kirkland had the same sort of style.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: The guy is just simply a pressure fighter.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Joe Frazier was a pressure fighter.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm trying to think of guys like recently to compare him to.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: He's in your face.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: He's going to grind you out, and that's how he fights.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm happy he's getting a shot.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: He's a blue card guy.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: My comp would be maybe Agat Caballel, the heavyweight, that's kind of getting overlooked.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: He's getting seriously overlooked.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a good comparison.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: I like that.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I did only give you like 20 minutes or maybe five minutes to think of it.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been thinking about that question for like five weeks or something.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: So when you sit and think about things for a while, you come up with it.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Finally, this undercard isn't that great.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: We got high Jamie Munguia fighting some guy.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: Espinoza was in a good fight against Lorenzo Parra who knocked out Elijah Pierce.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now that fight's off and he's fighting some guy.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Not to be disrespectful to these guys,
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: but these are world champions in with guys that you and me are big fight fans
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: and I've never seen these guys fight.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Landolfo Delgado versus Arthur...
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't fault him for that.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then we have David Picasso versus I believe Carl James Martin.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Which could be a sneaky, fun fight.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I wanted to get your thoughts on this undercard.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: And quite simply,
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: my question to you is,
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: is Canelo making so much money that it sucks the air out of the undercard?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because you just can't make those matchups that maybe make it simpler.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: That has to be it.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because this is an underwhelming undercard.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: It really is.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: And no disrespect to any of the fights.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: There's not one fight that I'm really like,
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like, get me to the main event.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: I hope we see great fights, but get me to the main event.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's what boxing is for the most part now.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it's financial.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: Canelo's getting so much money.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: How much do you really have to get a really good undercard?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it's called Mexico versus the world.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: And you'd think it would be a lot more compelling, but it isn't.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: I really don't.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: I can't sell you something that I don't believe in.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's underwhelming.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's an underwhelming undercard.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: I hope they're good fights, but I can't really spin it and lie.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: If I work for DAZN, maybe I could really pump up.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: I could really tell you why this is so compelling, but it isn't.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: It just isn't.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: A little cross-platform analytics talk.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: You got to see about how they get into those different type of culture.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Who are you more interested in?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Espinosa, Divino, the champion, or Jaime Munguia's return?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: And what feels like a kind of Jaime Munguia has been in the same spot for about a decade now.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, Jaime Munguia, he's an exciting fighter to watch.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: And he's been through the stuff he's been through outside of the ring.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's probably the fight I'm looking forward to the most on the undercard.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: But again,
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: you can tell by my lack of energy talking about it,
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: just because two fighters are fighting in a ring doesn't make it exciting,
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: doesn't make it a fight that's must-see TV.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: And this undercard is not.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what time it's going to start.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I don't know what time the ring walks are going to be.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I still haven't, unless you've heard, I still don't know the announced team.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: They're not going to be there, I believe.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: They're in the UK calling the fight.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: Who knows if the fight will happen, Lukie?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's Wednesday.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's a weird fight week.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: I just saw the times for the press conference.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't appear that there's a televised media workout,
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: which for a pay-per-view to me,
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: it feels like you want to kind of do publicity, publicity, publicity, right?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're trying to sell something.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it seems like you should do a lot of events.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: It just feels rather anticlimactic.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: It does.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a pay-per-view.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I can't help but laugh when I think about DAZN.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: When they first came out, they were like $9 a month.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: And they were anti-pay-per-view.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: And the pay-per-view is the dinosaur boxing.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: We're not doing pay-per-views.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: Then they signed Canelo, the very guy that's fighting this week.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: They signed him to that $350 million contract, whatever it was.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: And Everything changed.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: Suddenly you got pay-per-views and it went from $9 to $18 a month.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: And now I laugh every time I see those DAZN commercials saying there is no pay-per-view.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's all pay-per-view.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know what it costs.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: What's the cost if you signed up for their whatever it is,
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: the platinum package, whatever they call it, to get all their pay-per-views?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: How much is that a year now?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's like $300 or $400.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's like something insane,
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: or you can just have it monthly and pay for the pay-per-views you want.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: But it's funny, it comes back to Canelo.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: Canelo changed the game for DAZN.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: They were never doing pay-per-views, and now they're all pay-per-view.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, anticlimactic, a weird week.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: Only the diehards are buying this fight because...
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, who else?
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_02: No, the average sports fan.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: I wish I had a microphone in New York City.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of them, a lot of the average sports fans probably know who Canelo is.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_02: They probably have no idea he's got to fight this weekend.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: They probably have no idea.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: And if you tell them where he's fighting and what's going on, they'd be like, wait, what?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: Boxing's doing a fight there?
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: Then we're back into this cycle of what we talked about when we first got on.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: So it's an anticlimactic week.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's a weird week.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of the weirder weeks.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: In boxing of a, I mean, Canelo's still the, call him what you want.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: He's arguably, inarguably the face of boxing.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: He's the most known fighter in the world.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just a weird week.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it's Wednesday.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: And who knows?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: We still have got Thursday and Friday and Saturday.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: Who knows?
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: They're going to do everything they can to make the fight happen.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: Who would be shocked if it didn't?
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a strange week, but what I will say is I'm glad we made this happen.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: George, where can people support you and get your great insights?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: YouTube, One Round with George, George Jackovic on Instagram, Facebook.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: And one quick thing before we go,
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: that poster behind you, that's a Warden Dawson poster, isn't it?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I remember we did a...
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: I was in Dawson's camp for that one because we did a one episode 24-7.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember how hard,
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: and his trainer,
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: John Scully,
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: who I'm good friends with,
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: I remember how hard it was for him to make weight in camp.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, when I say in camp, I was there for four or five days.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: I was in Connecticut, and then he went to Vegas.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: I see that, and I think about that fight.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: I like to notice what's around you, and I saw that, and I immediately thought about that fight.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you two, one round with George.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: Look, I just love talking boxing.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's why it's fun talking to you.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we'll try to get Chad Dawson on next time that we talk so we can get bad Chad on and you.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: That would be cool.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you so much for doing this and the first of many future chats.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: Appreciate it.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now we got the American hero coming on.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Abraham Gonzalez fights ATW.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: He's one of my closest friends and he's going to give us a lot
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: of different perspectives,
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: both on Canelo and Billy and on the potential of Oshaki Foster being the Boxer of
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: the Year in 2026.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: What's up,
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: my friends, family,
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: and those who are bored on the internet right now, possibly on their lunch break.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: I am here with one of my favorite people in the whole world, Abraham Gonzalez of FightsATW.com.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: Abe, how you doing?
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yo, fresh off of feeling like shit on Monday and Tuesday with a high temperature,
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: but I'm here feeling a lot better today with the big dog.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: Loving it.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: I love the energy and I love the realness.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: I always like it when people don't go, yeah, I'm great.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: I always like when I get a little bit of like some complaining and middle-aged stuff.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I really appreciate, you know, like guys go, I really appreciate that.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: I actually really do appreciate that because I get called cranky and like honoree
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: for just giving honest answers.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, every time you come on, you're a Marine.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: We want to thank you for your service to this country.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: We want to normalize that.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: Veterans should...
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: Should get honored because what you did is amazing.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I also wanted to give your insights on what's going on with Canelo versus Mbili
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: because I feel like you're someone that's more qualified to speak
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: on this subject rather than me,
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: who's just a nerd who lives on the homeland,
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: who wants people that serve this country to protect me,
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: but I have no concept of that part of the world.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: What do you see going on and talk me through what this fight week entails?
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so in regards to the location and stuff,
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: it's a little bit tough to say at times because
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: coming from that part of my life,
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: I also understand that sometimes things are blown up, no pun, on purpose, right?
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: Regarding like news and things that happen.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, sometimes I wouldn't say it's made up, but it can be slightly made up.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and,
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: and sometimes it's,
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: it happened,
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: things happen and it might not be in the same location as they say it is,
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: but they will say it because there's reason behind it.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not saying that none of that stuff is true.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying that, um,
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: You can't believe everything you see and read when it comes to those type of things,
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: you know, talk about like world stuff.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: And you just got to take it for what it is.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean,
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: it's hard to say what it really looks like there because I can't buy 100% into what
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: the news media is providing regarding that.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: Without getting you in trouble,
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: I want to theorize,
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: is it possible that the news that makes it to the news outlets is like,
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: it's going to be filtered a bit because there is maybe unrest in the region.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: So what's exactly happening can't fully come out because,
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: it might be getting controlled to a certain extent or narratives might be painted
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: in certain ways.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I can give you a perfect example of how I can give you a perfect example.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: And this is, you know, public knowledge.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: But during the Gulf War,
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: I believe it was when they did the initial invasion,
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: they put on the news that the U.S.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: troops were at a certain location and they were pushing towards another location.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: And.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: Although the.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: The overall theme was true.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: What wasn't true was that they weren't in that location.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: But what did Saddam do?
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: He thought that was true and sent people in that area when
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: in actuality they were somewhere else moving forward on him, if that makes sense.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: So.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's it can all be tied together like that and strategically planted in certain ways.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't necessarily have to be true.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: Shout out to Mighty Brook.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: Mighty Brook, man.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: Good morning to you guys.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Mighty Brook.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, we're just saying that's war stuff and war stuff is very, very complicated.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to basically you have to overthink every single thing that's going on.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't fully feel comfortable speaking on the situations in Saudi fully.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't want people to get hurt.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: There is a part of me that's like a hippie that's like,
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, maybe if even anything has happened, maybe this isn't the best idea.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: But then there's another part of me that's like,
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: maybe I'm just a guy from the Western world
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: that doesn't really understand what's happening.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: And this could be like a really,
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: really powerful thing for a group of people to have an event coming to them.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't really understand the context.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: What I don't like in particular is boxing is my escape from this stuff.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it's coming into my boxing landscape.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where I...
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of like turn the volume down a little bit with what I'm looking at
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: and consuming and stuff, because I just I don't want to get wrapped into that.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: If if you're not physically there or if you're not like in the circle of trust,
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: so to speak,
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: of the people that are involved in the thing,
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: it's hard to really say what's exactly going on.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: So for me to comment or say anything on it, I think.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: Not that it's irresponsible, but it's just not realistic.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you just don't know.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: You just can go off of what the news media is feeding you.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes that's not always the best way to know.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: But it doesn't help that you don't get any of the information
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: through official channels or anything like that for the public to consume.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: So you're left with consuming whatever information It's provided to you
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: and that's not always good.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: My question to you is,
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: how does the way Canelo versus Mbilly impact,
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: and you're going to be impressed with me, the WWE Crown Jewel event?
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: How did these two events work together for the future of these type of future events?
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: So it's funny you should bring that up because they aren't canceling the WWE event.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: people have been saying that the two TKO events or that they're involved with are
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: the only ones that are actually going.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if that's related or not,
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: but I do find it interesting that they are having both events.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard stuff that some of the wrestlers are not wanting to go because of the risk.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: I find it interesting that they're Both tied to TKO,
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: but, you know, that they're going ahead and doing it anyway.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think that's part of the story.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now, when we go to Canelo versus M. Billy...
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: Does this impact either fighter?
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because no matter how we feel about this situation, it's not a normal fight week.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: They're not in Vegas.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: They're not going to a plush hotel.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: People are going to have feelings one way or another about this fight week.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: And does that impact Mbilly more?
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: Does it impact Canelo more?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: That there's possibly more noise and people are like, is this even going to happen?
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't think that it impacts them.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's business as usual, excuse me, when they get there.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: And not to give you another like,
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: like combat example,
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: but you know,
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: you can be in a combat zone,
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: but also be in an area where it's less kinetic than it is in another area, right?
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so where they're currently at,
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: maybe is in an area that is far away from where anything has happened, right?
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's business as usual for them.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: They might have a little bit of,
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, thoughts in the back of their minds like, oh, what if?
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: But until something happens there where they get rattled a little bit or if there's
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: a scare or if there's,
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: hey, we need to move you to another hotel, I think that's when it comes into effect.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: But right now,
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: it's probably business as usual,
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: especially if they're in an area where All the high level folks in
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: the Saudi government and businesses are at and they probably just,
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: you know, OK, it's cool.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing going on, right?
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing going on until it happens.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: So let's hope that nothing does happen.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't think that it's on their minds, you know, 100 percent.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: So you made me think of something from my vastly uninteresting life is I lived
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: in Yurvan, Armenia 16 years ago.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: And 180 miles away from Eurovan was Azerbaijan, I believe.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: And there was an ongoing conflict 180 miles from where I lived.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I never once thought of it.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like I never once... And it was like, it wasn't a little thing.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like there was stuff going on, but I was able...
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: I took car rides, trips...
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even really realize it was going on.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: But if you think about it, 180 miles for an ongoing conflict is not a small distance.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: If people want, all they got to do is get in a Durango Dodge and drive down and they're there.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you're making me think of stuff too.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's my initial thought on this too was,
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: is this just my bias to hear something,
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: to not know something and to just have a bias?
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, listen, I think that we all handle things in a certain way.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: And if I give you an example,
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: like if you're living in New York,
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: Chicago, L.A., and you're in one of them areas where Shit just happens all the time.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: You're just kind of like immune to it.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, yeah, somebody just got shot there yesterday.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: No big deal.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: Let me go to work.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: I got to take this bus or whatever.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it could be something like that.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like they just folks around.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: They're so used to things like that happening that while everybody else is like, oh,
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: my gosh,
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: they're like,
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: all right, man, well, listen,
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: I got to get to work today or I need to go do this business deal or whatever
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: and just keep it moving.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: Talk about the stuff we're good at.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: How does this fight look?
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: I know that, you know, people are making, you know, super big deal.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, look at Canelo's shape and, you know, all the aggregators and all that.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: They'll run up all that stuff and do the free promo stuff.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: But there is something to be said about NBILI.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: How he fights,
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: the motor that he uses to accomplish those things,
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: the condition he is in when he does so,
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: and what kind of mentality he's coming in with.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's really counting him out.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's almost making it seem like this is Canelo's becoming a world champion again.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's dissing in Billy.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: But deep down aside, he's not accepting all that.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like he is like, okay, everybody wants to count me out?
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is what we're going to do.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that also comes with him being backed by
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: a promoter like Camille Estefan, who's head of the Eye of the Tiger.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: They have that underdog mentality.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: They have that mentality like, we're going to show you.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's...
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: Part of the story on Saturday is how much is he going to show people who he is
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: and what is that going to look like?
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: So here's my concern for this fight is Christian and Billy is a high effort, high work rate guy.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: Canelo is a 21 year old pro who I believe is 36 years old now.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: Who at times, the criticism is he lets his foot off the gas and doesn't like to work in fights.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a chance that just stylistically,
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: if Canelo cannot hurt Mbili, which by the way, back to numbers.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: In the last five years, Canelo has not had a stoppage since Caleb Plant.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it's coincided with after Dimitri Bivel beat him.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: He's looked like a less enthusiastic fighter.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: He's looked less aggressive.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: He's looked less willing to take those risks.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: If he can't get M'Billy's respect,
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: is there a part of this that this is youth versus experience?
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that M'Billy just being the younger,
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: fresher fighter,
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: even though the ages might be a bit similar,
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: that he might just be able to physically do more than Canelo can at this point?
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I think so.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: The question is going to be whether Canelo still has the
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: The accuracy and the ability to land something accurate when he needs to.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: I still can't take out of my mind him saying my mind wanted to do something,
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: but my body couldn't from that Crawford fight.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: I can't take that out of my head.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard that countless of times through great fighters in the past when they've said that.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: And normally...
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: Fights after that don't go so well for them.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think that with Canelo, you're right.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: It is you versus experience.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if experience is enough for him in this one because,
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: and Billy's going to keep coming.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: The question is,
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: can he take those punches,
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: those accurate punches that Canelo tends to land and be able to still move forward?
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, that's kind of the interest.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: And to me,
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: it's like,
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of leaning a little bit towards Mbili in this fight,
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: just based on how Canelo's been looking.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: But if Canelo were to have one magical performance,
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: obviously legends tend to have magical performances later in their career.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: It probably would be against Mbilly because Mbilly's going to be so aggressive,
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: he's going to force Canelo to possibly have to take chances to be
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: that counterpuncher.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think part of the problem with Canelo is he's gotten in this pace
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: with Jaime Munguia,
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: with Edgar Berlanga,
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: with some of these other guys where he's like,
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: hey man, just chill out and I'll chill out too.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it feels like the excitement, at least from us as hardcore fight fans are...
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: And Billy doesn't seem like he has the temperament that even if he's hurt,
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: that he'd be passive.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the excitement is this is the first fight since Dimitri Bivel
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_00: or Terrence Crawford where you feel as though no matter what,
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: this guy's going to put it on the line.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: Not only that, but those two examples that you said, you know what they have in common?
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: They were both intimidated by Canelo before the fight even started.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that's the case with Christian and Billy.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think he's intimidated at all.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think that he really believes that he is the best version of himself now and
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: that Canelo is right for the picking.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: He really believes that.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's not the same as what Munguia and Berlanga's mindset was,
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: especially when that first round started because they were intimidated as hell
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: and they not scared, but they were very hesitant on executing game plan.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that we see that with Christian and Billy.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think he goes after him and he forces Canelo to prove to him that he's still the guy.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: No one's going to go.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: Which is that you cut off?
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: Can we go to a place no one's going to go?
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_01: Are we talking Vada?
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's not the place we're going.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: The place no one will go is I have a sneaking suspicion that the role of
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: a cut man is going to be huge in this fight.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: And Billy is a physical fighter.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there's going to be a head clash and something we've never really dealt
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: with in a Canelo fight has been the cut man.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: He's never really done that.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: And if Canelo gets cut,
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a realistic scenario in this because of all the fights he's taken,
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: etc.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's something to monitor is who's going to be the guy working the cuts.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: If he were cut, how's the team going to handle that?
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's almost...
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: If he were to get cut, it's almost a sign that Canelo's getting older.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: That he's showing wear and tear.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it almost feels like to me with Canelo at this point, it's not just...
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: About legacy.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's about him saying, no, I've still got it.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still the man.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it seems like losing to Crawford.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that wasn't that wasn't a good look.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that was a smaller guy that kind of hand selected you to beat you.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: And Canelo took some damage to his reputation to a certain degree.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: If he were to get cut in this fight,
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious to see the body language and how the team responds.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think,
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: and Billy kind of has that style where it's like,
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: if Canelo were to get cut in a fight,
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_00: this is the guy that probably would cause a head clash.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're absolutely right.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the reason why they brought in one of the best to be the cut man for this fight.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: Canelo, according to,
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: shout out to my guy,
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: Mario Maguia,
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: who told me this and he spoke to this guy with a phone,
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: Stitch Duran is going to be in the corner of Canelo for the cuts.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that Canelo understands that.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: The style that Mbili brings and that there's potential of that.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: And because of it,
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: he's bringing in one of the best to be in the corner to make sure
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: that that's taken care of if it happens.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's a really smart move because like
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: the thing I think Reynoso is really good at coaching.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's good at doing cuts.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's hard to do cuts and coach.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think that when you're doing both of those, one is going to get impaired.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: And the one example of that I look at is when Valdez was fighting Navarrete,
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: it felt like either the coaching or the cut got out of control because it was like,
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_00: it's just too hard to balance the two.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not unlike it's hard to be a boxing trainer and be a manager
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: because they're two full-time jobs.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like...
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times you have to give away some of that control.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that hearing that,
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: that's a really big thing that Stitch is going to be in his corner.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's very important, very smart of them.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that I think that they realize that there's a lot more riding on this
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_01: than what people may see on the surface.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: Back-to-back losses by Canelo, that'll definitely bruise him.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: And hurt some of his image moving forward still,
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: you know, and how much he gets compensated moving forward.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: So very important fight for them.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_00: Let's take it a step further, too.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: Back-to-back losses, you could argue, no longer face a boxing.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: But the problem is,
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_01: is that while all this was happening,
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: no one really, like, Pushed forward to make an effort and be that next guy.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because if there was somebody waiting in the wings that had enough drive,
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_01: if this happens, it automatically switches, right?
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: It automatically turns over.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_01: But there isn't nobody near there.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_01: So he may still have some of that time to still be the guy
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_01: because there's nobody really waiting in the wings or Sped up to the point
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: where they can take over.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think the big issue I've seen is Gervonta Davis and Canelo have kind of fallen
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_00: into the back burner.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, where's that person grabbing for the ring?
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: Where's the person that wants to be the next guy?
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think what's been frustrating is we've seen some really talented fighters,
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: but they're rather inactive.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: They find ways to maybe not be consistently in the ring.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then social media has made boxing really weird
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_00: where you're maybe like there were some fighters
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_00: that would have been weird characters, but now we just have too much access to them.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: I always joke and say this, you're my age group.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_00: Rap kind of got killed by social media because like a rapper's album,
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: like a Nas album was like a picture into the life of Nas since he was gone.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like seeing him on social media, you go, eh, I don't really want to hear the album.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of know you too much.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like with some boxers,
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_00: Part of the star appeal was not using social media,
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: was being mysterious, and you saw him fight weak.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: And now, no shots at any fighters.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's just an observation I have.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_00: It just feels like we know too much about too many fighters,
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: and I think we used to think that would elevate fighters,
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: but there's nobody that's filling that void of Canelo or even Gervonta Davis
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_00: who looked to be the next one.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think also the...
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: What dictates a fighter to be the guy has changed?
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: Is it what you do in the ring or is it what you do on social media classifies you as
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_01: the man or the woman?
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: Ryan Garcia could potentially be the guy.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say he faces Teofima Lopez and beats him in February in big fashion, grand fashion.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: He could very well take over as the face of boxing.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: But it would feel like more because of what he's done outside of the ring
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_01: than he's done inside of the ring, which it can be argued, right?
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_01: But I just feel like.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: What determines that has changed throughout the years.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have to really look at that and say to ourselves,
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_01: well, you're the face because of what?
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_01: Of the things that you've done inside the ring or outside the ring.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it's tricky nowadays.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: Also, I think T.O.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_00: beats Ryan.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_00: Hot take.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_00: Hot take.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good fight.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_01: I like the fight.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think it could be a big fight.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_01: February feels like a good date because they could probably get a venue for cheap,
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_01: especially since they're going to be demanding some big purses.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: So let's see what that looks like.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: Me personally, I feel like that would be a really good summer fight with a nice buildup.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: I guess February works, but I know what that...
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like they're trying to gear towards Keini Garcia for the undisputed title.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's what it all seems like it's heading towards.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: So if they can get to that without any bumps on the road,
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: you know, I mean, there'll be popping champagne everywhere.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_00: I just think that...
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: So this is Lukie, Lukie rabbit hole.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think Teofimo arguably has the best resume of these guys.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's just his level of inconsistency and his vulnerability both in and out of
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_00: the ring have made people, I think, look at him as the lowest.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_00: But he's a dynamic boxer who's capable of doing many things.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like Ryan Garcia looked really good against Conor Benn because he comes forward.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like,
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_00: I just think that people are going to really,
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: really kind of overrate Ryan going into that fight.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a tricky, tricky thing to do.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because Teofimo,
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say the greatest attribute of Teofimo is he tends to do really well
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_00: when people count him out.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: People counted him out against Roley.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_00: People counted him out against Loma.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: And they counted him out against Josh Taylor.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_00: It just feels like he wins these fights and he struggles in the fights he should win.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and think about this.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: He could potentially be a three-division lineal champion.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_01: There's something to be said about that, bro.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_01: Not an easy thing against real guys.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned Josh Taylor.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned Vassilino Mancheco.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's not easy.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_01: And they were the guys when he fought them.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't super down the road off their prime.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_01: They were still the guys at that moment.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_01: So being able to accomplish that and then potentially being able to do it
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_01: at 147 would be very impressive.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a good thing.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_00: If Canelo were to win, I heard an interview where he said he wants to come back in February.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't see that happening.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_01: The only reason why that would happen is if they're already banking
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_01: on they being like ring selling them,
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: banking on giving the Benavidez Zerto May date to them.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_01: They're not going to try to throw Canelo in there too.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_01: So what he's probably looking at is, well, let me get this over with in February.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to say that would be his last fight under the last Turkey deal.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then he'd have to renegotiate another one.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I could see him wanting to get it out of the way early in the year so
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_01: that they can figure out a new deal.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_01: But guess what?
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_01: Ryan would be in the same predicament as well.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because that would be his last fight, too, in February.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not surprised by that.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_01: Will it happen?
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't see it happening,
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_01: but I guess we'll have to see how he looks and what kind of shape his face is
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_01: after Saturday night.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_00: Level excitement for this fight?
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's at an eight right now for me, actually.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty hyped about this fight,
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_01: even though it feels like the Twilight Zone this week,
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_01: fight week, doesn't feel like a Canelo fight week.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: As people, or Adam Abramowitz would like to say, I'm the president of the Buzz Club, right?
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_01: The No Buzz Club.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's really not that much buzz with Canelo and Belli.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_01: Will it pick up once people actually see them face off and stuff?
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's just right now, Wednesday.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_01: Just not feeling it right now.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_01: Could be a different story on Thursday and Friday and then Saturday, obviously.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: But one thing I would mention that The Zone and I tweeted this the other day,
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was driving,
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_01: you know, dropping all my kids at school and a local radio station in San Diego.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_01: They were running ads about Canelo and Billy on the radio station.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I found that interesting because I can't remember
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_01: the last time Radio stations were running ads for a fight.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you could tell me if you're any different,
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_01: but for a DAZN fight or just an international fight,
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_01: running ads on the radio and trying to get people's interest in it,
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: I thought that was interesting in a good way.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's exciting.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_00: I remember being in this room doing podcasts with you about five years ago
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_00: for Tyson Fury, Deontay Wilder.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that Wednesday,
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_00: I remember there was obviously a different timeframe,
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: but there was television programs.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of shoulder programs.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_00: The YouTube views were crazy.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it was COVID.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_00: So the YouTube analytics were a little different.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_00: There was a boom and stuff.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_00: But it just feels like As a whole,
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_00: boxing's fight weeks have gotten smaller and shorter,
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_00: but this week doesn't feel as big.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_00: Final thought, I want to go to Shockey Foster.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_00: He wins against Emmanuel Navarrete, dominant.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_00: With this victory, does he secure the 2026 Boxer of the Year?
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, it's hard to argue against that because Shockey, man, you talk about a performance.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean...
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_01: You can tell that everything was on the line for him,
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_01: which it was, but that he fought that way.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that was very impressive what he did.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_01: The only thing that I would say is this.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, yes.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_01: But there's still a fight out there left, which is Benavidez-Seaslag.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that Benavidez,
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_01: because of how he dismantled Zerto,
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_01: if he does something similar in December, he's going to have a really...
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_01: Hard argument for that spot as well.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, though, I have to say that Shaki Foster is the lead in that category for sure.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_00: What about Neo Inoue?
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like people wanted Junto Nakatani and Inoue
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_00: to have this brawling fight when it was a really, really good fight.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was actually the end of an era of Japanese boxing, arguably.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_00: Is Inoue in the conversation for you?
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, it was a fantastic fight.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_01: It has to be because two of the best fighters in and around that division fought each other.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to always consider that,
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_01: especially how he performed that night against another elite fighter.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_01: You have to consider him.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_01: So he's right there in the mix.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't see anybody else.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know Ryan put his own name into it.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_01: Look, he beat Mario Barrios and Conor Ben.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know if those don't match up to what Shock Foster did,
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_01: beating Ray Ford and beating Emmanuel Navarrete.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_01: Benavidez dismantling Zerto in a way that no one has.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then now fighting C-Slack, I just don't see that matching up.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_01: So for me right now, it's in a way Shock, and I think Benavidez has an outside chance.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_00: And being someone that's covered Oshaki Foster extensively,
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_00: obviously, you know, his manager, Keith Mills, great guy, the team as well.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think this victory meant for Foster?
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_00: And can you like, I don't know, just give your anecdote from covering him so much?
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, listen.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_01: It was...
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_01: From a from just from an outside perspective,
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_01: it was great to see someone that seemingly was counted out from a long time ago,
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_01: had a couple of losses and,
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_01: he just went through everything and anything you can go through as a fighter,
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_01: whether that's having the chip stacked up against you.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_01: Going through different promotion companies.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_01: He was in Probellum.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_01: He was with Lutabella.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_01: Having issues with your promoter,
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_01: sitting on the shelf,
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_01: then finally signing with somebody, but then having to almost start all over again.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_01: You have to appreciate and respect someone that has gone through that and been able
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_01: to reach the mountaintop, so to speak, with a win that he did on Saturday.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_01: By the way...
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Going through all the personal stuff before his boxing career.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_01: So
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_01: just have a ton of respect for him and an appreciation for him having
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_01: the mental fortitude to be able to withstand all of that and still be the guy
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_01: that he is today that hasn't changed yet.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Is the same guy you speak to that you spoken to,
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_01: you know, six, seven years ago is the same guy you speak to today.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you got to respect that.
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I always bring it up with you.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I never forget that,
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_01: you know, they counted him out against John Fernandez way back on Showbox.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_01: And look at him now.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's like the John Fernandez fight to me will always be
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_00: the ultimate shock foster fight because he was sitting in a jail cell
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_00: that fight week.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Blew private,
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_00: made weight,
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_00: and then absolutely dominated John Fernandez,
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_00: who many people were considering to be a top five prospect up there
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_00: with Teofimo Lopez.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then he moves forward.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Gets some wins, but then the Ray Vargas win, right?
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_00: At the time, Ray Vargas had just had that great performance against Mark Magsayo.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Magsayo had beaten Gary Russell Jr. and ended his long title reign.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And people were like, man,
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Ray Vargas,
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_00: you know, dominant, kind of boring, golden boy champion at 122, then wins at 126.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like looking like, okay,
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_00: this is that new Hall of Fame guy from Mexico, three-division champion, beats him.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it feels like...
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Even with Stephen Fulton,
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_00: it was like Fulton was a guy where it's like,
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_00: he had a good but maybe not great resume,
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_00: but I feel like people were aware of him more than Shock and
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_00: that he was being put up on this stage and it felt as
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_00: though Shock won these high-risk,
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_00: low-reward fights and his reward was, well, that guy wasn't that good.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that was like what he was getting.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it felt with Emmanuel Navarrete.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_00: This is the first time where people are saying,
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_00: you know what, Chuck Foster, really good fighter.
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, 100%.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that it shows that he's going to be,
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_01: if they already put it on there,
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_01: but he's on the pound for pound rankings for the Ring Magazine and The fact
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_01: that people are already putting him in the conversation for fight of
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_01: the year tells you that his long overdue
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_01: props,
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_01: respect, all of that is happening for him now.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_01: And although he might feel like it should have happened already,
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_01: sometimes when it happens,
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_01: maybe not on your time, but at the right time, it feels even better.
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go through the pound for pound and figure out where we put shock.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we both agree Usyk in a way, one and two, whichever you do.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like he's not above those guys, right?
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say three and four is probably Bam and Benavidez in some order.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Is that right for you?
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, well, they got, let me see.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you got to have Shakur in there.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I was getting to Shakur.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Shakur is probably about five, in my opinion.
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_01: I give Shakur a little more than that because of how he's been able to beat guys
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_01: that are supposed to give him somewhat competition.
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, kind of blanking out tail female was pretty impressive.
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, Shaq is sitting at six.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_00: I've got Shaq above Bibble.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 1:14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't disagree with that.
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that you can do that
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_01: when these guys aren't fighting at the rate
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_01: that they should be.
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_01: somebody will say,
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_01: wow, you know, Devin Haney, you know, how are you going to put him above him?
• 1:14:24
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, his body will work this and that.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I get that.
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_01: But shit, man, Devin Haney hasn't fought since what, last...
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_01: September, a year.
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_01: November?
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Come on, man.
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, he's not fighting until December in your neck of the woods, right?
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so...
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to be there live.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully I get an awkward interview with someone.
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so...
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's like every interview I do, it's like, they're like, ah, that sucked.
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then the interviews just end.
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, great, that's awesome.
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I just, I don't know, man.
• 1:14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's...
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's becoming a little more difficult with this because God's just not fighting enough.
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like,
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_01: how long does the resume maintain his relevancy when you have those conversations,
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Even though it should always be relevant, but...
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_01: When guys aren't fighting once a year,
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_01: once every 18 months,
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_01: it's hard to keep them in lofty positions if they are not active.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, like with Bivol, it's like Bivol could have been pound for pound number one after Canelo.
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then he didn't fight for basically a year.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like he was out of the ring for a long period of time.
• 1:15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Then he has these two great fights with better beef.
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_00: And those two are like three and four on my pound for pound
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_00: because neither fight really created a winner.
• 1:15:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then he's out of sight, out of mind.
• 1:15:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's like he might have fought once,
• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_00: but it's like, to your point, it's like he fought in 2025 February.
• 1:16:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think he came back to a guy that had a song that was like about being an astronaut.
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then he's coming back December 19th.
• 1:16:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's like he was really high on the list,
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_00: but he's like kind of irrelevant to main event boxing for a guy of his stature.
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_00: So a guy like Shock can pass him.
• 1:16:21
  SPEAKER_00: With Haney, I mean, it's the inactivity.
• 1:16:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I also feel like, yes,
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Shock's had close fights, but it's like Haney's kind of had, what do you say it?
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like the opposite path.
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_00: He's had like the Joshua path where everything's kind of worked.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that kind of dings.
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then you look, it's like, is Juto still a pound-for-pound fighter?
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe, but I wouldn't be mad if someone took Juto off.
• 1:16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because I almost feel like when you lose a fight like that,
• 1:16:48
  SPEAKER_00: maybe you should move off and then have to re-earn your spot a little bit
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_00: unless you're proven.
• 1:16:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't get why Colazo's on the pound-for-pound list.
• 1:16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Not to be weird, but he isn't doing unification fights at 105 pounds.
• 1:17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like he's the only 105 pound guy in minimum weight.
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe there's something I don't get.
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Boots Innes is obviously a pound for pound level guy.
• 1:17:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think Asli's Iglesias is a pound for pound guy.
• 1:17:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's probably a hot premature, but he passes every metric of being the number 10 guy for me.
• 1:17:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's my rant on the pound for pound with shock.
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:17:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, like for me, I think Iglesias is...
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_01: At 11, maybe 10,
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_01: he should be in there,
• 1:17:36
  SPEAKER_01: but I just need him to fight one of,
• 1:17:41
  SPEAKER_01: and it's hard because nobody wants to fight him,
• 1:17:42
  SPEAKER_01: but I need him to fight one of those guys that has that name recognition or champion
• 1:17:49
  SPEAKER_01: or whatever and get him in there.
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Callazo is,
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_01: he's mandated to fight one of the other champions,
• 1:17:56
  SPEAKER_01: I believe, and But he's going to be coming out, actually.
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, Shaqie Foster is going to be at number 10.
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, it's a
• 1:18:07
  SPEAKER_00: hot take.
• 1:18:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think Ibuki is sneaky getting close to being a pound for pound guy, the flyweight champion.
• 1:18:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's a hot take.
• 1:18:16
  SPEAKER_01: That is a hot take.
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think that.
• 1:18:21
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
• 1:18:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think that in in 2027.
• 1:18:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think that this order is going to see a major reshuffle.
• 1:18:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's a hot take.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think there's guys that just don't fight enough, right?
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then you know how these lists are, too.
• 1:18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Guys are going to be eager to get Ryan Garcia on these lists or Teofimo.
• 1:18:43
  SPEAKER_00: The winner of Teofimo and Ryan Garcia is a pound-for-pound level fighter.
• 1:18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's a really, really good win.
• 1:18:49
  SPEAKER_00: So the winner of that is Iglesias is going to be at some point on this list.
• 1:18:54
  SPEAKER_00: And there's going to be a new guy at Flyweight or around Flyweight who's going
• 1:19:00
  SPEAKER_00: to be making his way into Hipster Island on this pound for pound.
• 1:19:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that might be Yabuki because he reminds me of Victor Chinian.
• 1:19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:19:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's to be determined,
• 1:19:11
  SPEAKER_00: but it's like there's a lot of guys that are probably going to retire soon.
• 1:19:15
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't be shocked if Inouye and Usyk, their last year is next year.
• 1:19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Bivel, Betterbeev, they're probably pretty close to being done.
• 1:19:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's going to be a new wave of guys.
• 1:19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that people don't realize how soon that's coming.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're going to reshuffle.
• 1:19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And a guy like Raymond Muratala,
• 1:19:33
  SPEAKER_00: for all we know, could be a pound-for-pound level fighter sooner than people think.
• 1:19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because if he faces Stevenson and he beats Stevenson,
• 1:19:43
  SPEAKER_01: now you have to put him in that conversation, right?
• 1:19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Biffle's going to be interesting because coming off of back surgery and
• 1:19:50
  SPEAKER_01: then he had another surgery after that,
• 1:19:53
  SPEAKER_01: I really want to see what he looks like on his next fight.
• 1:19:56
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, I don't know if he has a long...
• 1:20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a long way to go.
• 1:20:05
  SPEAKER_01: He might have like one or two fights left and that's it because I think
• 1:20:09
  SPEAKER_01: that those injuries are some serious injuries to try to still come back from and be
• 1:20:14
  SPEAKER_01: and look elite.
• 1:20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of that's it, this is it because I got something to do.
• 1:20:20
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a tell people where people can follow you and we are going to promote you.
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you, man.
• 1:20:29
  SPEAKER_01: At AG718 on X, on Instagram, TikTok, FightsATW.com is the website.
• 1:20:36
  SPEAKER_01: As always, big dog, Lukie, I appreciate you for having me on, and we'll see what happens.