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Steph Wagner: The Bold Wealth Reset- When Money Gets Personal · The Bold Lounge

0:07
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
0:09
SPEAKER_01: My name is Lee Burgess and I will be your host.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: Every week we'll hear from someone who has taken the leap or embarked on an extraordinary journey.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold growth mindset that they use to make things happen.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: Whether they faced challenges or doubts along the way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: These impactful stories will leave you feeling motivated and inspired to pursue your own bold journey.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be free.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: Tune in and get ready to be inspired.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: Today I have Steph Wagner.
1:02
SPEAKER_01: Steph is a nationally recognized thought leader in women's wealth and financial empowerment.
1:06
SPEAKER_01: Today she serves as the National Director of Women in Wealth at Northern Trust, where she leads the firm's advisory practice for women and its Elevating Women platform, a national program focused on building financial literacy and helping women use their wealth to create meaningful impact in their families, businesses, and communities.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: Before joining Northern Trust, Steph spent many years advising high-net worth women navigating major life transitions.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: She also built a national consulting practice for wealth management firms seeking to better serve female clients and founded Women Wealthy Wise, a platform dedicated to advancing financial literacy and empowerment for women.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks for having me.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to be here today.
1:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we're we're gonna jump right into being bold.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: We were talking just a little bit about it in the green room, but I'm excited to hear what your definition of bold looks like.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love it, and what a great way to kick this off.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: To me, bold is thinking big, right?
2:02
SPEAKER_00: And really pushing ourselves beyond our primarily self-defined limitations and ultimately getting really comfortable in the uncomfortable.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: And that's where magic can happen.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: Right?
2:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because often, you know, when we do something new or have a change in our life that we either chose or did not choose, we have to get uncomfortable because it most likely is not something that we plan to do at a certain time.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: Or I think I hear a lot of women ask, I just want it to be guaranteed, and there's not much that is.
2:33
SPEAKER_00: Nope, nope.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: The only thing guaranteed is playing it really, really safe and small.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: So, and that no one wants to live that way.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: Right.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: So when you think about your life, when you've basically embraced being uncomfortable, you you've thought big and you've really pushed beyond maybe it was either your own limitations that you placed on yourself, or maybe even what society places on women potentially.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: When's a time in your life that you lived aligned to that definition?
2:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, my life blew up about you know 14 years ago.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, literally blew up.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: I was blindsided.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: My marriage ended.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: My husband at the time, I had no idea he'd been having an affair for two and a half years.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: I literally one day learned, I went to bed with my best friend, and the next day he was my adversary.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: And it was heartbreaking, mind-blowing, you know, at what point did my life become a lie?
3:23
SPEAKER_00: And I think as I navigated through that, where I got really bold was realizing that I have an opportunity here, you know, and I gotta take it.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: I got to use my story and my journey, and frankly, my finance background, which I think we'll get into a little bit of my background and my story more.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: I got to use it in a powerful way, not only to heal myself and give all this purpose, but to give back and to help other women that are going through a similar circumstance.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: And that took a lot of guts because you got to get really raw and vulnerable to do it.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes, you know, that vulnerability gets scary, but so grateful I did.
4:04
SPEAKER_00: I'm so grateful I thought really big.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: I didn't just want to do it a little.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to go all in and really develop a career around it.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: And I'm so blessed to have been able to do that.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so something extremely unexpected and out of left field.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: I mean, even with, you know, the way your book reads, it's like a memoir and the guide as you start off.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: And it's heartbreak, honestly, on the first page.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you were watching a movie, and that's really like how it how you found out turning and like asking the question, and then it was, you know, a bit of a roller coaster, and then you knew where you were gonna go.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: How did you decide what to share or what not to share when it comes to helping others?
4:45
SPEAKER_01: Because I think one of the things we have challenges with today, whether it be social media or you know, how we organize or how we we talk with others about what's happening in our life, was people talk about authenticity, but I think sometimes people don't share the stuff that's not the sparkly and the rainbows, you know, we we don't see a lot of that.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: So you shared that right off the bat.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: How did you decide that?
5:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I shared it in prior to writing a book, and writing the book was a huge goal, you know, way back then, as well as trying to create a career out of this and businesses out of this.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I grew up in a family that didn't share anything.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm from, I have German roots.
5:25
SPEAKER_00: We don't talk about anything, right?
5:27
SPEAKER_00: Everything's perfect.
5:28
SPEAKER_00: You sweep everything under the rug, nothing leaves the family.
5:31
SPEAKER_00: I grew up, as you've read, with and not a very healthy family, even with my mother and father.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of abuse, and um, I was to be seen and not heard.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it wasn't healthy at all.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't like a family full of conversations.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: So being authentic, raw, vulnerable was the first big, it wasn't, it was getting comfortable in the uncomfortable.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: But what happened was is I started to write.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: You know, I didn't know what I was gonna do, but uh one day, this is this was a massive turning point.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: I had the amazing opportunity to write for at the time, this was way back when the Huffington Post was even different.
6:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean, Ariana Huffington had it's it's a crazy big bold move of even being able to write and asking her if I could.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: But I wrote this piece called My Wake Up Call of Financial Independence.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: And it's a tiny snapshot of what was expanded in the book.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: But it was published on a Friday, which means it sat on the front page and it was picked to be the front story.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: I was so humbled.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: It sat there all weekend, which meant a lot of eyeballs got on this, and I was very raw with it, and it was scary, like you can't imagine.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: But the comments and the feedback and the thank yous and gratitude for being willing to share and be that taught me the greatest lesson.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: And from that point, I just made a commitment that if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna get really naked with the truth.
6:59
SPEAKER_00: And if people judge, let them, you know.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: And but we need more of that, I think, in the world because to your point, everyone looks perfect.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: And when our worlds are falling apart, we feel very alone.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: Only way we're gonna change that and how others feel is we really get out there and tell the truth.
7:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:15
SPEAKER_01: You're right about moving from fear and avoidance to having agency in your life, which is something I talk about, fear and how it impacts us from moving forward.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: It's one of the biggest things that I think that becomes a barrier for someone to take their first bold step, tiny, you know, or large.
7:32
SPEAKER_01: And that fear, I think people sometimes feel it's the stop sign.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: It's the, oh, I need to stay safe.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: But they don't really, I think, realize it's also the indicator that it's an action you're taking or potentially making that is important.
7:45
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean always stop.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: So did you have to manage any of that internal dialogue when you were starting off and claim your space?
7:53
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: In fact, so many people, because I had always tackled life, you know, given my childhood and being an only child in a very, very unhealthy um situation.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: I kind of put a cocoon around me and I had this inner strength that I'm not quite sure where it came from, to be honest.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: But I don't remember a time when I didn't have it.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: And when my life fell apart, that strength was gone.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: I remember people like, where is Steph?
8:16
SPEAKER_00: Who are you?
8:17
SPEAKER_00: Like, this doesn't look anything like that my mom, you know, where's my daughter?
8:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was really living in scarcity and fear with a ton of self-doubt and a ton of imposter syndrome, particularly as I'm really trying to put a stake in the ground and develop an expertise around women and wealth given my journey.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: But then I learned that that fear that you're talking about is a really good thing.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: And if I used it as a superpower to say, you know, discomfort means I'm growing, right?
8:48
SPEAKER_00: And if I embrace that fear and kind of unpack where's the source of it, why is it there?
8:54
SPEAKER_00: And how can I push through it?
8:56
SPEAKER_00: I could be productive with it versus let it cripple me and keep me playing it small.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: And also, I will tell you, I got some really amazing advice along the way.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: And I think that is a reminder that everyone around us has their own thing going on, you know, behind their smiles or behind their sadness, you know, depending on what their face is projecting.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: Everyone has something going on or a story behind.
9:17
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, we can serve as a real change agent for them, right?
9:23
SPEAKER_00: By even just smiling at them, right?
9:26
SPEAKER_00: Even just talking to them.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: And I remember when I was, I had a here I was like building several businesses, raising three kids completely alone.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: You know, I was a single mom.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: Not only did my life blow up, and I was left with very little money to rebuild, I had no career.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: I'd been out of the workforce for 14 years.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: So I had absolutely no financial agency.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: I'd given all that up, um, unconsciously, I might add, and that's a big thing.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: No one wakes up and says, I think I'll lose my financial independence today, right?
9:55
SPEAKER_00: It happens over time.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: I had all this stuff, so overwhelmed.
9:59
SPEAKER_00: How I was gonna pay bills, how I was gonna take care of these kids.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the voices were so loud and there were so many moments of giving up.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: And I remember I got a text and it was from a friend, and she said, Steph, those voices inside your head are lying.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: How she knew I was experiencing that at the moment, I don't know to this day, but it was unbelievable.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, and I and I think we got to be gentle on ourselves.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
10:25
SPEAKER_00: Like it's normal to feel that way, but also remember that others are feeling it too.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: And so when you happen to be on a on the other side of it, we got to pay it back.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think oftentimes we don't realize that some of the smaller, what I call ordinary moments of our life become these turning points for us, whether it's sharing like you did openly and vulnerably in the article and everyone seeing it.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: And that's truly what it's all about.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: It's about connection, it's about knowing I'm not alone.
10:55
SPEAKER_01: I'm not the only one that felt that way.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: It's like those quiet moments where you're like, oh, I did do that on my own, or I was able to create, or I, you know, I still remember my first sale out of the gate, and then it took me five months on my runway.
11:07
SPEAKER_01: But I was like, wow, I gotta be all in on plan A, which is believe in yourself and keep going.
11:13
SPEAKER_01: Keep going, keep going, you know.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: So when you think about your internal talk, what were some of the things that you were saying to yourself as you got out of the gate and started making those bold moves towards your financial really independence and also then being able to help others with it at the same time?
11:30
SPEAKER_01: Because it was like almost a parallel thinking for you, correct?
11:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I, you know, I was the journey of rebuilding and regaining your financial independence is definitely a process, right?
11:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: You know, I focused first on what I could control.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: And that was I couldn't control the earning.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: I had been out of the workforce, like I said, for 14 years, and I had to go figure out how I was gonna go monetize my life again.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: And I had a really big job out of college making a lot of money as an investment banker.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: And then it was crippling to think 14 years later or whatever, it was 17 years later, I think by the time, but to start over, I would have made a fraction of that, right?
12:08
SPEAKER_00: So I had to get smart and big and bold, but in the meantime, I had to make sure that we were okay.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: So one thing, my advice is focus on what you can control because at the at one point it's very, very overwhelming to do it all.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: And also, I will say emotionally, I was a mess.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: You know, I was an absolute mess for multiple reasons.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: You know, I had a lot of work to do on myself and I didn't know where to begin.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: But at the end of the day, I had started my career in finance, right?
12:37
SPEAKER_00: And so despite the fact that I was very overwhelmed with my personal financial situation, I knew this stuff.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: I've gone to college and graduated, you know, from USC in finance.
12:47
SPEAKER_00: I built an early career around this.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: I knew finance.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: So I focused on what I could control, and that was the money.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: That was how do I start to build wealth with what I have?
12:58
SPEAKER_00: How do I start to, you know, and you got to start small.
13:02
SPEAKER_00: And that's a really important thing, too, is you can't get so overwhelmed by the big hairy goal.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: You got to set some small goals that you can be bold and big around to accomplish them, build confidence.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden you wake up and you just accomplish the big hairy goal.
13:19
SPEAKER_00: So that's that was a big part of my journey.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: And that process really began to show me I just created a roadmap on how to build financial freedom.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: Getting to financial freedom was going to take time.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: But I had built a foundation that on how I would work and lay for the money that I would eventually make.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: But in the process, I was putting to work more strategically what little money I had, again, coming out of that divorce that needed to build, be the beginning of that foundation.
13:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:49
SPEAKER_01: So again, small intentional steps.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: They become habits also.
13:54
SPEAKER_01: I think in, you know, whether how you use your money, how you spend your money, how you review your spendings, those types of things.
14:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh they become these habits that keep you healthy, you know, financially, and all the other health that I think that can can get connect to.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: Because I think financial health and emotional health and financial health and physical health, they're, you know, to me connected.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: And I don't think we talk about that enough.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I actually describe this book as it's a women's empowerment book disguised as a finance book, quite frankly.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, you can't have one without the other.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: It's all intertwined.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: You can't think big and bold if you don't have financial security.
14:34
SPEAKER_01: Right.
14:34
SPEAKER_01: And you won't take those steps because of like you talked about scarcity mindset.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: So style's like one of the first steps when you went to, you know, you know, Fly, which Fly, a women's guide to financial freedom and building a life you love, is the name of your book.
14:50
SPEAKER_01: When you started that, was the initial step believing in yourself?
14:54
SPEAKER_01: Were you looking at your beliefs?
14:55
SPEAKER_01: Because the bold framework is believe, own, learn, design.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: So it's really what I had to dig into when I quit my job without a plan, because I had to choose myself and my family.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: I had to look at my belief system because it was a little out of whack.
15:07
SPEAKER_01: I would say a lot out of whack, honestly.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: So, like I needed to work on me, like you said, you there's some things to do.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: So, where did you start?
15:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know what?
15:16
SPEAKER_00: Where I started, and one of the main reasons that this book is part memoir is I started to have to get really real with my story.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: I needed to look back and really write down and uncompartmentalize my childhood.
15:28
SPEAKER_00: I needed to uncompartmentalize what happened to me.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: And I began to write that memoir in the trenches of my health, like literally, you know, as I was navigating it, then I put it aside.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: And this book was been in the works for 12 years for a reason, right?
15:43
SPEAKER_00: But getting raw and uncomfortable with my story, me personally, and getting it down on paper, it then was I could bridge over and begin to do the work.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: And so when you talk about that first step, particularly when it comes to money, I had to really understand my current relationship with money.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: Who was I today when it came to money?
16:03
SPEAKER_00: I had so so the first step is evaluating internally, right?
16:07
SPEAKER_00: Really understanding your current relationship with money.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: Why?
16:11
SPEAKER_00: Why are the behaviors that I've had, why did I lean out?
16:15
SPEAKER_00: Why did I avoid any conversation with my ex-husband, my husband at the time about money, despite the fact that I was pretty good at finance.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, why did I advocate?
16:25
SPEAKER_00: A lot of that had to do with how I was raised and the conflicts and the fighting.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: And I didn't want that in my marriage.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: So unpacking your current relationship with money by having honest conversations about where you've been, what was modeled for you or not modeled for you, the behaviors or money messages you picked up, the mindset that you adopted, which again, as we talked about, isn't just about money.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: It it trickles into all aspects of your life.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: And then I think the next part was okay, great, but I can rewrite this script.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: This doesn't have to be my story.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: What do I want for the future?
17:02
SPEAKER_00: And that's where the dreaming big and being bold came.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: Because it was like, all right, I acknowledge where I am, I acknowledge the why, I acknowledge some pretty bad maybe conversations.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm not so productive even with my own children, right?
17:16
SPEAKER_00: That I need to change because I'm impacting their money story.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: But where do I want to go?
17:21
SPEAKER_00: And once all that was done, now I could really begin to do the work with more of the tactical things when it comes to uh to personal finance.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:33
SPEAKER_01: You talk about six kinds of money personalities.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: Can you tell us a little bit about that?
17:37
SPEAKER_01: Uh maybe a few of them or their definition how we understand.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of where you are today, right?
17:44
SPEAKER_00: And it's important to note that when you think about your money personality, your habits, things that you're doing every single day, whether, you know, I've got penny pincher, maybe that's someone who overly saves, is very risk adverse.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: They dream about doing something, but they never pull the trigger because God, it's too painful to spend, right?
18:03
SPEAKER_00: The giver that maybe gives and gives and gives and almost feels guilty that if they have money, but sometimes begins to build resentment, right?
18:12
SPEAKER_00: Because they're giving it all and helping others, and yet it's hurting them, right?
18:17
SPEAKER_00: The trailblazer.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just giving you a few examples.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: There's multiple personalities.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, I I kind of I'll be honest, like I was living as a penny pincher out of my divorce because I was living with this scarcity mindset, thinking I'm one step away from financial disaster.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: And no matter what I do, I will always be one step away because look what just happened to me, it could happen again, right?
18:41
SPEAKER_00: But I was also a trailblazer, which is interesting, right?
18:44
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's important to know that when you do your money personality, number one, isn't set in stone.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: It changes all the time, whether consciously or unconsciously.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: And there's good and bad in each uh trait, in each personality type, to be honest, because being a trailblazer is great.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: But thinking you don't need any help and that you're an expert in everything because you're just a go-getter isn't necessarily great, right?
19:09
SPEAKER_00: We all need help.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: Being a saver is great, but doing it in a way that sabotages your money's ability to grow and build wealth for you isn't productive.
19:19
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I think again, if I could it's not set in stone.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: We have more control over it than we think.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: And the reality is, is we're a little of a couple of them.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but once we build awareness around these behaviors and personality traits as it result as it relates to money, we can then begin to consciously shift those behaviors, right?
19:42
SPEAKER_00: We can then begin to recondition ourselves to go, I see that's not healthy.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: Let me tweak that, let me get into a more healthier habits around that.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: One of the things, and we were talking about this just recently in my family of like what we were taught in school really isn't relative to actually how you live your life.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's still the same.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm, you know, I'm in my early 50s, so like I don't really have a connect into kind of the K through 12 environment.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: But, you know, we never talked about savings and to with a length uh investing, what's a Roth IRA?
20:14
SPEAKER_01: I mean, these are things I wish I would have known more about, right?
20:17
SPEAKER_01: So I think one of the things that's missing, too, at least for me, like it feels like I'm learning it now in my 50s versus maybe or my 40s versus when I, you know, could have started out of the gate, maybe doing something.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: In your opinion, has that changed?
20:31
SPEAKER_00: Is it getting worse?
20:32
SPEAKER_00: Not enough.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: And in some ways it's getting worse because money's getting more complicated, wealth is getting more complicated, right?
20:39
SPEAKER_00: We used to have just a couple of different types of assets, a retirement, right?
20:44
SPEAKER_00: A retirement account, our home, maybe some a brokerage account, you know, that we had on the side, and we had our bank accounts.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: And now we have so many more different types of assets.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: So there's so much more to learn.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: But also, I think one of the biggest misses is it's not just what's taught in school because it's not being taught enough at all.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I think there are many, you know, high schools, I think the majority don't teach anything about personal finance.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: And unless you, you know, have it as part of your major or minor in some way, a lot of college kids are never exposed to it.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: So I don't think we're getting better.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: However, where the biggest opportunity to learn is is from our parents.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: And that I think we don't talk enough about.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: And in most families, money is taboo, it's a taboo topic.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: We are taught it's not polite to talk about money.
21:37
SPEAKER_00: Most of us grew up.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: I know I'm we're you and I are similar in age, and it's that's how we were.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: I was raised.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: You don't talk about it.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: So how do you learn, you know, and also maybe you saw things in a dynamic within your family that one person controlled it, the other did nothing to do with it.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: That modeling carries over into how you act or or even the dynamics in your own relationship.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, A, we need to be talking about it more within families.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: We need to allow you don't have to disclose everything, right?
22:10
SPEAKER_00: I'm not suggesting that you sit down and say, hey, kids, this is everything we have.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about everything.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: But don't miss the teachable moments.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: Right.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: And also be open and honest to say, guess what?
22:20
SPEAKER_00: I don't know this stuff.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: So maybe we should sit down and learn it together.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: And that's an amazing opportunity for a parent and a child, a mother and a daughter, a mother and a son, whatever the case of father is, it doesn't matter to go and do this together and start that journey.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: That will pay dividends far beyond just, you know, their ability to wisely save and invest.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: I think the other thing is you don't have to continue the cycle.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: If it was something that was positive for you, or something that you saw, or something that you felt, you know, when money was talked about, it doesn't mean you have to choose that path or that you're destined for the same results.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: This is where agency comes in, right?
23:00
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: We have to own our power.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: We have to own our economic power and not just our ability to make money, but we have to have agency on what we do with that money once it hits our bank accounts.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: And that's where, you know, we are in a really unique environment out there.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: I am seeing women do, and young women do unbelievable things with no fear, starting these businesses right out of college.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they're amazing, right?
23:27
SPEAKER_00: And they're so inspiring to me because, you know, I was like, oh, I would never have dreamed about starting a business right out of college.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: But where we have work to do as a society, particularly around women and wealth, is on the back end, is what I call it.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: Once you earn that wealth, do you really have agency and financial independence and financial freedom?
23:47
SPEAKER_00: Are you building the tools you need to be good stewards of that?
23:51
SPEAKER_00: And frankly, if I can add, doing so and and why this book is so important to me is we as women in this society today can't afford not to.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: We are living longer than ever.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: Your stats at the like in the you know at the beginning of the book were actually very numbing.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: How many get divorced?
24:09
SPEAKER_01: How many people will be widowed by 59?
24:11
SPEAKER_01: How many people, you know, over the age of 65 that are getting divorced, you know, like I think that's like your the best time.
24:18
SPEAKER_01: Like you should be locked in.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, whoa, like over 50% of the people are getting, it's even higher, I think, getting divorced.
24:24
SPEAKER_01: So like those facts were very numbing to see.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: And and when you combine that with the fact that women are living longer today than ever, you know, they're expecting like a three, I can't remember the exact stat, but over the next 30 years, we are gonna see more people, you know, living beyond 100 in mind-blowing growth rates.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: And 70% of them are gonna be women, which all of that translates into when you think about the average age of widowhood, like you said, and the fact that we have the rise of the gray divorce, eight out of 10 women are going to be solely responsible for their financial life later in life.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: And they're not gonna be prepared.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: So that's where I'm out saying, let's be proactive.
25:07
SPEAKER_00: Let's learn about this stuff now.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: Let's have healthier relationships or partnerships around money within our marriages, within our, you know, just our partnerships, whatever that looks like, right?
25:18
SPEAKER_00: If you choose not, if you're cohabitating, whatever that looks like, let's have healthier conversations and be prepared so that we reduce our risk of A, being a burden to our kids because we run out of it, or B falling into the wrong hands of advisors and and and people who, you know, to ensure that we're set up to thrive in our later years in those chapters versus be unbelievably stressed.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: Because let's be honest, it's pretty hard to rebuild wealth when you're 90.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: Right.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
25:47
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be doing it then either.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: No, we're two aren't children, by the way.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, right.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: I remember, and I think I talk about this in the book where you know, I was sharing with the or this lack of conversation around money, right?
26:01
SPEAKER_00: And how my son was like, Are we poor?
26:03
SPEAKER_00: Because I forgot to tell him you know, our plan of attack.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: And when I began to say, guys, no, like I'm saving to start this business, and here's what we're doing.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: And they're like, Oh, and I said, Do you want me to live with you when I'm and they're like, No, no, no, you keep going.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: You start that business, mom.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: I said, See, now you guys, you guys are invested too.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: This will help you in the future as well.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no doubt.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: Well, you are modeling, right?
26:29
SPEAKER_01: Like you're modeling like this was a pretty beyond crappy moment in my life, and I'm underseeding it, and I'm going to keep going.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: Now I'm human, I'm gonna have my ups and downs, uh, you know, to it all.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: But I think again, you're modeling to them, like I'm gonna figure it out.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: Maybe I don't know it, but I'm going to learn it, and then I'm gonna teach it because I don't think anyone, I I mean, I got the sense of you did not want anyone else to feel like you did when you first started out really understanding your relationship and then the foundation of building it.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: Like you were like, okay, I have this is bigger than me.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: Much bigger than me, much bigger than me.
27:02
SPEAKER_00: And I I want to inspire women that if listen, hey, if this can happen to me, if a finance guru in their early 20s with an amazing career could end up basically broke, you know, facing divorce, you know, in the midst of divorce and having to rebuild and giving up her career, you know, to be a stay-at-home mom and all of that.
27:25
SPEAKER_00: If I could become a financial disaster, it could happen to anyone, number one.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: And number two, but if I can rebuild, so can you.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, and I will just add that this whole journey really inspired me to really see that this isn't about divorce.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: Like divorce was my catalyst, right?
27:43
SPEAKER_00: This isn't about rebuilding, you know.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: That happened to be what I needed to do and my opportunity to learn and to develop insights and and to teach.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: But it could be anything.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: It could be job loss, it could be, you know, it could be illness, it could be anything.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: And it's not just for women later in life.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: It could be someone just fresh out of college, right?
28:08
SPEAKER_00: That wants to develop these healthy habits and then use my story.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: My hope is it's a cautionary tale.
28:15
SPEAKER_01: Right.
28:15
SPEAKER_01: I do not advise anyone to do what I did.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: I hope we learned from it, right?
28:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: And and um, it was really two young women in their 20s who I asked them to read my final draft and to get their opinions to see if it was relatable in any way.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: And they both said, We want to learn from you because you've lived life.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: And I thought, okay, maybe, maybe this is a broader audience than I thought, you know, this book.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: People gravitate to the realness in the message, right?
28:45
SPEAKER_01: Of someone who's actually lived it, being honest about how it was, and that, you know, like I said, it wasn't all, you know, butterflies and rainbows.
28:52
SPEAKER_01: And there is a realness to, I think, being able to share the story from, you know, the ground up in a way, you know, which you really were building from the ground up, it felt like you created this in the part two of the book.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: So the book's divided into three sections.
29:05
SPEAKER_01: Part two is really about establishing your foundation, and you created the 45, 20, 35 model.
29:11
SPEAKER_01: And I love the simplicity of it.
29:13
SPEAKER_01: So I would love if you could just share a little bit about that particular model.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: Well, first and foremost, I really don't believe in budgets.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: You know, I believe in the framework, right?
29:23
SPEAKER_00: That we can kind of figure out how do we essentially they're buckets, right?
29:27
SPEAKER_00: How can we allocate our net income every month into a way that actually inspires us, empowers us versus cripples us when we figure out, oh, I just busted my budget this month.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: And I think what you also show is that it's not as hard as you might think it is.
29:43
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the activities and the things that you um share in the book, and I encourage everyone to grab the book when it comes out, pre order it now.
29:51
SPEAKER_01: I think in the sense of that, it's not, I think sometimes we overcomplicate it.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean exactly.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: It's if you can add, subtract, multiply.
30:00
SPEAKER_00: Divide, you've mastered money.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: But the framework is really centered around this whole concept of we have unavoidables, right?
30:08
SPEAKER_00: These are the things to put a roof over our head to get from place to place, a car or you know, public transportation costs or whatever, utilities insurance, you know.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: But then we also have our not so avoidables, right?
30:21
SPEAKER_00: Like they're not avoidable.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: We need gas, but we can control what we spend to that.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: We need groceries, we need food, but we can control what we're allocating those not so avoidable dollars to by the choices we make.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: And then you have your complete avoidables, right?
30:39
SPEAKER_00: Like these are your this is your discretionary spending.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: These are all the extras.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: And it's first gaining the 4520 is built on this concept of we have these three different types of expenses every month.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: And every single one of them is tied to a want or a need, right?
30:56
SPEAKER_00: A lot of us think, well, wait, no, I need a house.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: I need to put a roof over ahead.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but do you need to spend that much or do you need and it's understanding and building a world?
31:07
SPEAKER_00: Right.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: That you've made a choice that has caused your housing expenses to be what they are.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: It's okay, but just understand that there's a choice in there and that there's a want structure based around it.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: Well, once you develop, you know, and in the book, I kind of give a whole thing of like some exercises of how to start thinking about this differently.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: But once you have that basic context around it, I create the 45-2035 model basically is centered around 45% of all of your net income, no more, should be spent to those unavoidable.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: So that again, housing transportation.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: 20% non-negotiable should be investing in your future.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
31:53
SPEAKER_00: And what that looks like depends on your circumstance.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: If you don't have an emergency fund, you need to prioritize that.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: If you don't have, you know, a fully funded retirement account, prioritize that.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: And in the book, we dive deeper into questions to consider.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: Well, then what's left over is what I call your empowerment money.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: And that is made up of your discretionary spending, as well as your not so avoidables.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: Because what I'm trying to teach is you have more control over this than you think.
32:21
SPEAKER_00: You know, once the money is gone, it's gone.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: So you got to be really strategic and make sure that your spending is stays true to those percentages.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: Now, if I can just add real quickly, we don't live in an ideal world, right?
32:35
SPEAKER_00: The 45, 20, 35 is based upon this ideally.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: But truth be told, like there are some places in this country that your housing costs are astronomical.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: Right.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: And you need to subsidize that 45%.
32:49
SPEAKER_00: Well, unfortunately, how is that usually being subsidized?
32:53
SPEAKER_00: We overspend in other ways and we use we fall into more credit card debt, right?
32:58
SPEAKER_00: So what I'm trying to also do is say, listen, you can have less empowerment money, less discretionary money for those extras, or maybe you, you know, yeah, you need groceries, but do you really need filet mignon?
33:10
SPEAKER_00: Like you need to make some better decisions around how you spend that.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: But knowing consciously, because you need it in another area.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: And again, this isn't about depriving anyone of anything.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: The whole framework, and frankly, my whole book is really centered around becoming much more intentional around your habits and understanding the consequences of the decisions you make, which goes into a concept that's really prevalent throughout the book, which is called opportunity cost, right?
33:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that is the foundation of how do you really grow wealth is understanding that.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: As we end here, one of the things that you talk about is money, relationships, and power, right?
33:50
SPEAKER_01: And all of those, you know, the word power has a lot of, I think, uh, energy around it.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: And you specifically talk about getting smart with your love life.
33:58
SPEAKER_01: What does financial transparency look like in a healthy partnership, in your opinion?
34:04
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm glad you brought up this chapter because this is my favorite chapter, you know, chapter 10.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: I kick this chapter off with some pretty um, a lot of reflection, right?
34:14
SPEAKER_00: Of about my own marriage, looking back and the lack of like the pressures that we had.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: You know, I was doing things leaning out, and he was no one ever came together and had that transparent conversation.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: When we were going through tough times, like the recession and his sleepless nights, you know, he never asked for help, but I never said, How are you?
34:35
SPEAKER_00: Do you need help?
34:36
SPEAKER_00: You know, and so that was kind of the foundation of how do you build these healthier relationships?
34:41
SPEAKER_00: Transparency is key, you know, to your point.
34:44
SPEAKER_00: It's it's the root of it all.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: Because again, it starts with open communication.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: It also starts being transparent about your feelings, being transparent about what you don't know, being transparent about I need more help.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: This is, you know, here in good normal days, hey, here's what our money snapshot looks like.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about this.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: But what if there's a challenge, you know, a problem that a loss of a job.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: Transparency also means let's problem solve this together.
35:13
SPEAKER_00: And so, in order to have transparency, you have to have trust, you have to be vulnerable.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: And I think most importantly, you need to make the time, set dedicated time aside to have conversations within your relationships around this topic.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: And make sure you listen as much as you speak, because that's where if you don't have this in a safe place where really people can feel like we can communicate about it, it's all for nothing because someone's not going to talk because they're afraid of that it's gonna cause a fight or that's gonna cause some type of conflict.
35:48
SPEAKER_00: So understand it, you know, have grace.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't happen overnight.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: But if you set an intention of let's work towards this and and figure out what works best for you, I think you're on the road to success, you know, certainly within your within your partnerships.
36:02
SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
36:02
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so get comfortable with being uncomfortable too.
36:06
SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, as you were, I was thinking about your definition there, you know, it's not always a comfortable conversation, most likely, when you first broach it or maybe when you're figuring things out.
36:13
SPEAKER_01: Again, I guess it goes back to just start, start with the step toward it of what it may be.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: So when we think about, you know, one of the things that, you know, describing how we have a relationship uh with money, just ourselves, let alone, you know, in a partnership or in a marriage, what question should a woman ask today if she hasn't even thought about that?
36:35
SPEAKER_01: Or if things are kind of like, wow, that is me.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: I don't even know what's in our IRA or what the IRA is or how many accounts we have or even what the login is.
36:43
SPEAKER_01: You know, like I'm there's some things probably happening as as people are listening.
36:46
SPEAKER_01: What question do they just need to start with today and begin to answer it as they go through the steps in the book?
36:53
SPEAKER_01: Is it, you know, what do my balances look like?
36:56
SPEAKER_01: Or uh, you know, what where do they start?
36:59
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, I'm gonna go back to that relationship with money, asking yourself why, figuring out what is my money story, what is the journey that got me where I am, and really unpacking the why behind it.
37:12
SPEAKER_00: And then with that, you know, if you want to get tactical, the best place to start beyond that, beyond the emotional part, is really take a hard look at your current situation.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, and when I say that, I don't just mean on the surface, because that's easy, right?
37:27
SPEAKER_00: It's really easy to say, oh, I figure out where all your money lives, every ounce of it, you know, and the older we get, that can become more complicated, right?
37:37
SPEAKER_00: Where are all my accounts?
37:38
SPEAKER_00: Dive deeper, read the fine print, you know.
37:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I've got this credit card.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: Well, what's the interest rate?
37:45
SPEAKER_00: You know, what all those nitty-gritty details all are part of understanding your current financial landscape.
37:52
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, breaking that down, understand where your money lives, number one.
37:57
SPEAKER_00: Then really thinking about your outflows.
37:59
SPEAKER_00: We talked a little bit about, you know, that framework and where do you fit within that framework?
38:04
SPEAKER_00: And then I think the next most important step as you're understanding this, your financial landscape, is to really take a hard look at what do you own and what do you owe?
38:14
SPEAKER_00: And again, it doesn't mean looking in the accounts that you just identified and looking at a balance, you know, really understanding the aspects of that.
38:23
SPEAKER_00: Is it good debt?
38:24
SPEAKER_00: Is it bad debt?
38:25
SPEAKER_00: And again, the book dives really deep into all of this.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: But you can't really do much if you don't know where your starting point is.
38:32
SPEAKER_00: What resources do you have to work with?
38:34
SPEAKER_00: And that's, you know, again, emotionally, what resources do I have to work on?
38:39
SPEAKER_00: And also financially, what's my starting point?
38:42
SPEAKER_01: Right.
38:42
SPEAKER_01: So know your numbers, know what you want to learn more about, and also I think identify what you don't know.
38:50
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
38:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and be honest about it.
38:52
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think for me, that's one of the things I've done my entire life is like I don't try to fake it till I make it.
38:57
SPEAKER_01: Like I literally go, I don't know that I probably should, but you know, a little embarrassed that I don't, but here you go, because it's not gonna help me to hide it.
39:05
SPEAKER_00: That's great, and I'm so glad.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: That's a that's actually such a great way to wrap this up, is is you know, I say and I mean this wholeheartedly, and I think it's gotta be a mantra for us is there is no shame in not knowing something.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: The shame is really created by not doing anything to change that.
39:23
SPEAKER_00: Doing things about yeah, exactly.
39:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love it.
39:26
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
39:27
SPEAKER_00: So there's nothing to be embarrassed about.
39:29
SPEAKER_00: You never learned it.
39:30
SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
39:31
SPEAKER_00: I don't know anything about medicine.
39:33
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
39:34
SPEAKER_01: Like we're not supposed to know everything about everything, you don't have to go it alone.
39:38
SPEAKER_00: So that's right.
39:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think one of the key things everyone needs to pick up this book is coming out in November, Fly, a woman's guide to financial freedom and building a life you love.
39:48
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for being on the bold lounge, sharing your journey, being vulnerable, and helping others learn from what you've learned.
39:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you, and thank you for really bringing this issue of being bold and needing to not play life small and having these amazing conversations around it because it's very, very inspiring to others.
40:05
SPEAKER_00: So thank you for your work too.
40:06
SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
40:09
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
40:12
SPEAKER_01: Through the continuum of bold stories, vulnerability to taking a leap, you will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important story.
40:22
SPEAKER_01: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of those with a bold mindset.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next bold journey with you.