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CD Projekt Red: “Nintendo’s audience is different to what it used to be” · The Game Business Show

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  We did find a new audience of people who we may not necessarily
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  reach if it wasn't
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  SPEAKER_00: for the Switch.
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  SPEAKER_00: Do not underestimate the physical edition.
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  SPEAKER_00: Nintendo players are very receptive or like,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: appreciative of physical editions of the downright.
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  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to the Game Business Show with me,
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  SPEAKER_01: Christopher Dring,
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  SPEAKER_01: your guide to what's going on in the global video game business.
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  We've been covering the Nintendo Switch 2 quite a bit on our
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  shows over the last month,
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  and we're now just over a month away from the console hitting
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  store shelves.
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  And one of the most interesting elements about the Switch 2 is
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  the sheer amount of
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  SPEAKER_01: third-party support that he's getting from AAA.
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  SPEAKER_01: Game developers,
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  SPEAKER_01: we've had Final Fantasy VII Remake,
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  SPEAKER_01: Elden Ring,
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  SPEAKER_01: Borderlands 4,
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  SPEAKER_01: Project 007,
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  SPEAKER_01: Hitman Street Fighter VI,
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  SPEAKER_01: Star Wars Outlaws.
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  SPEAKER_01: There's some really big games in there.
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  SPEAKER_01: But one game that is getting a lot of the headlines,
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  SPEAKER_01: and is one of the console launch titles actually,
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  SPEAKER_01: is CD Projekt Cyberpunk 2077.
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  SPEAKER_01: Cyberpunk was a game that is a technically challenging title.
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  The game very much struggled,
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  at least at the beginning,
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  on PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.
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  But here it is running on Switch 2,
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  and I've played it,
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  and it's doing a pretty good job.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I was very eager to chat with the developer,
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  SPEAKER_01: CD Projekt,
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  SPEAKER_01: about the game,
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  SPEAKER_01: why they wanted to do it.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I'm delighted to have with us today Jan Rosner,
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  SPEAKER_01: Hello, Jan.
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  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show.
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  SPEAKER_01: Hello, Chris.
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  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for having me.
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  SPEAKER_01: Have you been on the road with the game?
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  SPEAKER_01: Have you been one of the people that's been doing the Switch World Tour?
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  SPEAKER_00: A little bit.
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  SPEAKER_00: No, not me personally.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've only visited the Paris event, which was super cool.
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  SPEAKER_00: I also got to experience some other titles.
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  SPEAKER_00: But yes,
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  SPEAKER_00: we have been present on pretty much,
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  SPEAKER_00: I think,
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  SPEAKER_00: every show so far,
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  SPEAKER_00: which Nintendo organized at every event where,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: consumers can get their handle with the game.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I saw it in London, and I was very eager to give that one a go.
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  SPEAKER_01: Have you been paying attention to the reaction?
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  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: What have you heard?
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  SPEAKER_01: What have people been telling you?
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  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, so far so good.
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  SPEAKER_00: We are really, you know, happy with the reception so far.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm personally seeing the sentiment,
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  SPEAKER_00: which I was quite hoping for,
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  SPEAKER_00: so that it really feels like Cyberpunk on the go.
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  SPEAKER_00: And,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: people who have played it,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: outside CDPR were,
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  SPEAKER_00: I think,
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  SPEAKER_00: quite happy with what they saw.
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  SPEAKER_00: It is also a...
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  You know,
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  at first for us,
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  because we have never launched a game together with a console.
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  We're very curious how it's going to go,
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  but we remain,
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  I think,
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  optimistic,
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  so that's cool.
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  Yeah,
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  I guess that puts a bit of pressure on,
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  because you've got a deadline,
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  right?
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  SPEAKER_01: You know,
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  SPEAKER_01: the other things,
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  SPEAKER_01: you can say,
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  SPEAKER_01: we can push it back a bit,
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  SPEAKER_01: or we can work with our own timelines,
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  SPEAKER_01: but you really want to get there.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I think it is a bit of a...
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  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, the hero title was Mario Kart from Nintendo's point of view.
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  But I think from a third-party point of view and an industry
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  point of view,
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  SPEAKER_01: seeing what a game like Cyberpunk can do on that machine is,
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  SPEAKER_01: I think,
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  SPEAKER_01: crucial to the platform,
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  SPEAKER_01: even if,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: on top of that.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I guess there's a getting a game ready for launch.
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  SPEAKER_01: It has certain challenges to it that are...
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  SPEAKER_00: It absolutely did.
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  SPEAKER_00: To some extent,
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  SPEAKER_00: of course,
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  SPEAKER_00: we were very much aware of the timeline when the game has to be ready.
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  SPEAKER_00: Of course,
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  we wanted to make sure that it feels and plays right and it
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  feels also organic to
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  SPEAKER_00: the platform.
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  So when pretty much everything was checked,
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  then we just decided to give it a go.
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  And then we're very happy that it's actually going to ship put
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  together with the console.
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  SPEAKER_01: Certainly going to be one of my launch games.
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  But let's go back a little bit because Nintendo's audience is a
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  different one,
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  right?
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  It's not necessarily the ones that you get on PlayStation or
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  Xbox or Steam,
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  SPEAKER_01: which is where your games typically do best.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's sort of the home for Witcher and Cyberpunk.
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  SPEAKER_01: So what attracted you to Switch 2?
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  SPEAKER_01: Why were you keen to get on board so early?
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  Well,
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  I would dare to say that,
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  you know,
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  Nintendo audience is growing and it's broadening.
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  And I think it's quite a bit different from what it used to be
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  even a few years ago.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I think Nintendo is also realizing that.
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  And we have seen like a big number of titles being announced on
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  the Nintendo Switch
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  SPEAKER_00: 2 Direct,
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  SPEAKER_00: which you would maybe not initially,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: immediately think of when it comes to like,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: shipping on a platform like Switch.
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  SPEAKER_00: But with that said,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  we have also had a very cool experience with The Witcher 3 or
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  The Switcher on
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  SPEAKER_00: Nintendo Switch,
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  SPEAKER_00: the original one.
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  SPEAKER_00: And there is absolutely,
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  SPEAKER_00: we do feel there is,
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  SPEAKER_00: and we actually do know,
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  SPEAKER_00: that there is an appetite for big open world AAA,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: RPGs,
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  SPEAKER_00: which you would normally expect to be released on PC and consoles.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it very much fulfills,
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  SPEAKER_00: like,
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  SPEAKER_00: even to me personally,
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  SPEAKER_00: it really fulfills the fantasy of playing such a game on the go.
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  SPEAKER_00: You are not tied to,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: big PC rig,
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  SPEAKER_00: but you can actually take it on the go without any,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: major compromises to the game itself.
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  SPEAKER_00: I personally can't wait to play,
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  SPEAKER_00: like,
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  SPEAKER_00: Cyberpunk and many other games,
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  SPEAKER_00: which I already managed to play a little bit on the Paris event.
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  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm jumping a little bit ahead in what I was planning.
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  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about The Witcher 3, because here's a question.
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  SPEAKER_01: Did you find the audience on Switch,
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  SPEAKER_01: the first Switch,
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  was it a completely new audience that you were reaching players
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  you weren't
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  SPEAKER_01: reaching before,
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  SPEAKER_01: who hadn't even touched a Witcher game before?
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  Or did you find it with actually existing Witcher players who
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  just liked the idea
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  SPEAKER_01: of having a version of the game that they could just play on the go?
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  SPEAKER_00: Of course,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: we were,
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  SPEAKER_00: I remember,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  those conversations back in like a series back that we're
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  actually wondering,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: if there will be like an audience for this kind of game on the platform,
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  SPEAKER_00: which is Nintendo Switch back then,
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  SPEAKER_00: which we then consider like a typical,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: Nintendo,
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  SPEAKER_00: Nintendo audience.
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  Luckily,
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  like the idea was,
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  you know,
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  playing the game on the go like that.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then I remember that,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: even holding it for the first time,
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  SPEAKER_00: like both The Witcher and Cyberpunk.
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  It really made us,
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  I think,
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  realize that there is absolutely should be an audience like this.
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  Even back then,
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  I think,
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  see that the Nintendo audience is growing as a whole.
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  And there are more,
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  you know,
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  mature gamers also,
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  you know,
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  entering the Nintendo ecosystem.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it's proven to be successful.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
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  SPEAKER_00: there's The Witcher 3 back in the day was one of the first,
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  SPEAKER_00: I think,
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  SPEAKER_00: games of this kind to be released on Switch 1.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it's,
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  SPEAKER_00: for us at least,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's like sort of,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  precedent that there's absolutely an appetite in the world for
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  games like this on
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  SPEAKER_00: the platform.
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  SPEAKER_00: And this Switch is so much more, you know, than just about, yeah,
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  or spark diggals so did you find that actually some i said the
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  reason why i asked
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  this question is i interviewed the civilization team last year
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  sure and i talked
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  about civilization seven and they said civilization six their
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  previous game they
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  found that a lot of people that were playing it on switch were
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  people that already
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  had the game on pc yeah they had this scenario where they said
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  oh people just want
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  to play this game on the go that's right and so i was wondering
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  if you had that
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  SPEAKER_01: same phenomena with with which yes
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  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I do believe.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean, absolutely, yes.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know, especially with cross-progression.
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  I mean,
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  you can pretty much pick the game where you left off on a PC
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  and console.
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  SPEAKER_00: But it is absolutely,
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  we did find a new audience of people who we may not necessarily
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  reach if it wasn't
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  SPEAKER_00: for the Switch.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_00: So people, you know, who are looking forward to play the games on the go.
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  SPEAKER_00: Those are absolutely a new audience for The Witcher as well.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I guess,
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  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
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  SPEAKER_01: this is all hypothetical right now,
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  SPEAKER_01: but obviously because there's Steam Deck,
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  SPEAKER_01: right?
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  So I guess if you are somebody that had the game on PC and you
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  want to play it on
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  SPEAKER_01: the go,
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  SPEAKER_01: you've already got an option there.
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  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
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  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that might change what you've got with Cyberpunk?
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  I'd say that I'm not sure if I would consider Steam Deck like
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  even almost a
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  SPEAKER_00: separate platform like Switch 2,
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  SPEAKER_00: right?
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  Switch 2 is an entirely platform on its own,
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  which is not an extension to anything else.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then Steam Deck,
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  SPEAKER_00: as much as I know,
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  SPEAKER_00: I love the device,
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  SPEAKER_00: but it feels sometimes like an extension to,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: to existing PC audience and like the PC enthusiasts.
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  SPEAKER_00: While Switch 2 has a sold audience, it's very big.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's super successful.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the Switch 1 has, you know, sold
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  SPEAKER_00: in many, many, many millions of copies worldwide.
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  And I think this allows developers like us to tap into that
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  audience and then to
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  SPEAKER_00: pretty much reach the entire linear base.
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  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, the appeal is definitely reaching new audiences.
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  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
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  SPEAKER_01: Rather than just satisfying them, giving your existing audience.
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  SPEAKER_01: I know that's part of the benefit, but it's maybe not the focus.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's talk about Switch 2 a little bit.
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  SPEAKER_01: What excites you most about what it's capable of doing?
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  SPEAKER_00: I would generally say that I would maybe start with the performance.
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  I mean,
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  it really felt like a really big performance leap when it
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  compared to Switch 1.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then what this will allow to many,
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  many developers out there is to bring their games to the
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  platforms and maybe also
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  consider their usually AAA games to be released they want on
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  Switch 2 as well.
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  And I think that we're going to see more and more third-party
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  titles to be released
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  SPEAKER_00: on the platform,
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  SPEAKER_00: which we may not necessarily expect on Switch 1 even back in the day.
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  SPEAKER_00: The previous generation has proven to be so successful,
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  SPEAKER_00: and then there are so many more players to be reached with that,
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  SPEAKER_00: that I think that performance will surely allow it.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I think that Cyberpunk 2077 is a nice example of that,
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  SPEAKER_00: that you can shift the game,
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  SPEAKER_00: which is considered to be super demanding on PC and consoles,
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  SPEAKER_00: which plays very well on the go and using that hardware.
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  SPEAKER_00: On a personal level, I really liked all the platform-specific features.
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  SPEAKER_00: Mask control, for example, is something I was quite blown away with.
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  SPEAKER_00: It is a smaller device,
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  SPEAKER_00: and it's a smaller mouse,
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  SPEAKER_00: but it really struck me how accurate it is,
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  SPEAKER_00: and I can actually use it on any surface.
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  I've played a bunch of games using that piece of hardware,
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  and that was super cool.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I think even with Cyberpunk 2077,
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  we decided that we want to take advantage of as many
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  platform-specific features as possible.
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  SPEAKER_01: You don't have any Mario hats though, do you?
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  SPEAKER_00: No.
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  SPEAKER_00: But I did try the Metroid game, which plays extremely well.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's really something else.
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  What amazed me about the mouse aiming was the fact that I could
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  switch between normal controls.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
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  SPEAKER_01: It was seamless.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it was seamless.
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  SPEAKER_00: Very cool.
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  So this was really something I wish more games would bring in
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  the future to the platform.
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  I think there's definitely room for an accessory company to
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  create like a cradle
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  for it because it did work very well but it could do with being
• 9:23
  a little junkier so
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  I think just a little bit of plastic to stick over the top
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  would make the difference.
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  I mean I probably play in handheld mode so I probably won't
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  experience it quite
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  SPEAKER_01: that often but I was also quite impressed with that functionality.
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  So has getting the game working effectively on Switch 2,
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  how easy was that?
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  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, it's never easy.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
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  SPEAKER_00: of course,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: it is a...
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  SPEAKER_00: I want to say,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: we did major compromise,
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  SPEAKER_00: God forbid,
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  SPEAKER_00: but first of all,
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  SPEAKER_00: we wanted to make sure that the game feels organic to the platform,
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: and then,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's not just,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: simple one-to-one port from PC or console.
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  SPEAKER_00: We did have to put some optimization to it,
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  SPEAKER_00: of course,
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  SPEAKER_00: and then make sure that it also plays well on a smaller screen,
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  SPEAKER_00: but I dare to say it...
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  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was not a gigantic effort whatsoever.
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  SPEAKER_00: Thanks to the increased performance,
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  we actually managed to play the game fairly soon after we
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  decided to give it a go.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: the rest was like history,
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  and then we spent a fair amount of time on making sure that it
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  plays very well,
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  SPEAKER_00: developing platform-specific features again,
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  which hopefully will arise as a very good experience for the
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  players they want.
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  I was sort of expecting it to be more like maybe a port of the
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  PS4 or the Xbox One version,
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  SPEAKER_01: but the fact that the expansion's in there,
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  SPEAKER_01: because that was never on the old machine.
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  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
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  It was clearly a much bigger job than I had necessarily assumed
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  it would be before
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  SPEAKER_01: going to play the thing.
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  SPEAKER_00: the part of the game in Phantom Liberty already,
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  SPEAKER_00: because I think that was a part of the London experience as well,
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  SPEAKER_00: that you can already say that it's playing nicely.
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  SPEAKER_00: So,
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  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
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  but putting everything in one package and providing as much
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  value as possible,
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  SPEAKER_00: like,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: 300 cloud hours,
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  SPEAKER_00: hopefully,
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  SPEAKER_00: experience for many players was the goal from the get-go.
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  SPEAKER_01: When Cyberpunk first launched,
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  I think it's fair to say that CD Projekt took a reputational
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  hit at the time
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: because it didn't work as great on consoles.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: You've since iterated, you've updated the game countless times.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: It works very well today on all platforms.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: You've turned the situation around.
• 11:13
  I'd argue that you'd be reputationally sort of back on a much
• 11:17
  stronger footing.
• 11:19
  So were you wary of the potential risk you were taking of
• 11:22
  trying to get Cyberpunk
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: running on less powerful hardware again?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'd say that we are absolutely looking at it.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Again, we wanted to make sure that it plays right.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think it would be apparent from very early on that it,
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: for example,
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: is not capable of running the game of this scale.
• 11:45
  But then,
• 11:45
  of course,
• 11:45
  there is also a matter of doing some compromises here and there.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: But we would never,
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: at this point,
• 11:50
  we would never make a compromise which would hurt the artistic
• 11:54
  vision behind the game.
• 11:55
  just has to feel right so that's why you know we've upon some
• 11:58
  fine tuning on the on
• 11:59
  the dev side and making sure that it runs well i think there's
• 12:02
  always a thing in
• 12:03
  the back of their head that you know these people are going to
• 12:05
  really compare to
• 12:06
  and expect the pc level of performance but i think it's also
• 12:10
  again with with our
• 12:11
  even with our wisher 3 experience players in general are uh i
• 12:13
  don't want to say
• 12:14
  quite forgiving but understanding of platforms performance
• 12:17
  limitations and they
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: tend to not maybe expect like you know pc rig
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: path tracing kind of experience,
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: which they are used to on the most capable platforms out there.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: It is a big AAA RPG on the go.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: We want to make sure that,
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: we can play it from start to finish,
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: like without making any major compromises.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we've managed to do just that.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: But of course, the players will judge in the end.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: It seems like you learned a lot,
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: though,
• 12:40
  from that Witcher 3 experience in terms of what works and what
• 12:45
  players are willing
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: to accept and also what they like about it.
• 12:48
  Was there any particular lesson from The Witcher 3 that's
• 12:51
  influenced Cyberpunk?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say they were quite at use.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 12:55
  I've already touched on the audience and how we see all the
• 12:57
  appetite for such games
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: is out there.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: There were quite a few things which we already took into consideration,
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: the cartridge being one of them.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: So very early on,
• 13:05
  we wanted to make sure that the game fits on the cartridge so
• 13:08
  that there is no
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: additional downloads required.
• 13:10
  It's just a more or less plug-and-play experience unless you
• 13:12
  have to download some
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: additional language packs from the Nintendo eShop.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: But otherwise,
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: we wanted to make sure that it actually feels,
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: again,
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: like a plug-and-play experience.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise,
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: of course,
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: like I mentioned before,
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: it's never just a one-to-one port from PS5,
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: PS4 or anything else.
• 13:28
  You have to make some additional effort to make sure that the
• 13:31
  game feels and plays
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: well on the console this size.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't just mean mouse aiming works or gyroscope aiming,
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: but also,
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: for example,
• 13:40
  making the text a little bigger so that it feels right on the
• 13:42
  smaller screen and whatnot.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, just to make sure that it feels right on the platforms.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Quite a lot of learnings from what we did on The Witcher 3.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: We've applied them here as well.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow, yeah.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: You're becoming handheld experts.
• 13:58
  I don't think we are there yet,
• 14:00
  but I think,
• 14:00
  you know,
• 14:00
  we are learning on the go,
• 14:02
  I'd say.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Again,
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: it's a first for us to launch a game together with a console,
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: but I think we're getting there.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: I guess Nintendo's put its arms around you,
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: they've taken you on tour and stuff,
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: but have you had a lot of...
• 14:15
  You must have done a lot of interaction and engagement with
• 14:17
  Nintendo on this one.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: They are awesome partners.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 14:21
  we admittedly were working with them very early on on the
• 14:24
  console and how,
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: if we can bring Cyberpunk to the platform.
• 14:28
  Of course,
• 14:29
  you know,
• 14:29
  I cannot give you specifics,
• 14:30
  but they were super supportive from the start.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: They were quite amazed with even early builds of the game.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said,
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: we are just a month away from the console's launch,
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: and they've been super supportive.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: we have been present on every event,
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: and we are super,
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: super lucky to have them as partners.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: you mentioned it yourself,
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: but one of the big conversations on 4Round Switch 2,
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: at least on social media,
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: there's lots of conversations,
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: and you shouldn't always listen to all of them,
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: but particularly when it comes to third-party developers,
• 14:59
  is using these key cards rather than putting the whole game on
• 15:01
  a cartridge.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: You are one of the exceptions,
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: one of the few exceptions,
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: actually,
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: who's managed to squeeze the game onto a physical card.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned that it was important.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: You learned that you needed to do that.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Why was that important?
• 15:14
  Well,
• 15:14
  you know,
• 15:15
  we try to look at those things as players ourselves sometimes.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Especially I think that was a big learning from Switch,
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: original Switch,
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: when,
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 15:23
  of course the memory was way lower than I think it is right now
• 15:28
  with Switch 2.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: But then again,
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: the game like Witcher 3 would,
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 15:32
  take up to 80% of your internal memory if you don't have an
• 15:35
  external memory card.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: In this case,
• 15:36
  I think the additional download is maybe an unnecessary step
• 15:41
  which you would need
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: to take.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, it's possible, but for many it's an additional hassle.
• 15:46
  Just the plug-and-play experiences,
• 15:47
  I think,
• 15:48
  is a really cool thing we wanted to do.
• 15:50
  We've already seen from the original Switch and The Witcher 3
• 15:53
  that the players on
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Nintendo is quite receptive to that,
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: and then it's actually resonated with them very well.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it was, again, a goal which we wanted to achieve fairly early on.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think on Switch, when it comes to at launch,
• 16:05
  anyway when a game launches up to 80% of a game sales could be
• 16:09
  the physical version
• 16:10
  of the game and I think and unlike which is the opposite on
• 16:13
  Xbox and not quite the
• 16:15
  opposite on PlayStation yes yes but a lot more significantly
• 16:18
  different but
• 16:19
  obviously those cartridges aren't cheap and they've got so many
• 16:22
  third-party
• 16:22
  developers that are not doing it yeah you're not thinking maybe
• 16:25
  you could have got
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: away with it and done a download only
• 16:28
  you know it's not a it's not a matter of you know getting away
• 16:31
  with something it's
• 16:32
  what felt right you mentioned but you know Nintendo in physical
• 16:35
  and its retail is
• 16:36
  still quite strong and I think retail is in general not maybe
• 16:39
  not going anywhere I
• 16:39
  don't think we'll we'll soon experience a reality where we're
• 16:42
  just having all games
• 16:43
  digital and then no no retail space you know we are known to
• 16:48
  deliver quite rich
• 16:50
  physical editions of our games you know we likely will include
• 16:52
  like an extra goodie
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: physical goodie or two with a
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: with the physical edition of Cyberpunk.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: But again,
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's especially important for a Nintendo audience,
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: because there are so many games also available,
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: again,
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: with Retail Edition.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, maybe we could have gone away with it, but is there a point?
• 17:07
  The right thing to do was to have it out on the cartridge with
• 17:10
  a plug-and-play experience.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: It certainly seems to have been a bit of a,
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: this makes it sound very corporate,
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: but a bit of a PR win anyway.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Fans seem to be certainly very grateful that you've done that.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so it looks like the right choice.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have too many other questions,
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: but CD Projekt is known for pushing the technical barriers for its games,
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Its games are often always on the cutting edge,
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: sometimes to its detriment,
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: but it's always sort of cutting edge visuals,
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: incredible performance.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: But younger audiences today, you know, they're into Roblox.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: They seem a little bit less bothered by that.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:41
  And then you've got things like Switch 2,
• 17:43
  which obviously isn't PlayStation 5.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: It isn't top-end PCs.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: You've got lower-end PCs, obviously.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: You've got the Xbox Series S.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: But considering all that,
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: this is more of a general,
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: broader question.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 17:53
  Has that influenced a little bit how CD Projekt thinks about
• 17:57
  games going forward?
• 17:59
  We need to be mindful of the fact that there is this now
• 18:01
  spectrum of players from...
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Our biggest titles are,
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: of course,
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: regular temperature,
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: so we are targeting,
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: we'll say,
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: broader,
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: the gym,
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: more,
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: mature audiences anyway.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: But we are absolutely mindful that,
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: players who will play our future titles are,
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: entering the gaming space right now,
• 18:16
  and they have to be sort of introduced maybe to the IPs as
• 18:19
  early as possible.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: But with that said, you know, the growth is massive.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, we, uh, we just think that
• 18:28
  i'd say that you know the the you have to make sure that for
• 18:31
  example in nintendo's
• 18:32
  case maybe it's not about just providing the open world
• 18:35
  experience but also it's
• 18:36
  putting the hardware to the limit to make sure that it doesn't
• 18:38
  feel like a
• 18:39
  compromised version of anything and then people who are used to
• 18:42
  uh play on on
• 18:43
  nintendo like their first party titles and then maybe all of a
• 18:46
  sudden they will
• 18:46
  discover cyberpunk with the witcher right because they usually
• 18:49
  would not get to do
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: that because they don't own a pc or like a bigger console
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: So to answer your question, I think that it is absolutely important.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: And even though our games are rated,
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: or like meant for mature audiences,
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: we have to be absolutely mindful that,
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 19:00
  those players in just a few short few years from now will
• 19:02
  become major players.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then we have to like,
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: push ourselves also to introduce the IP to them as early as possible.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then we don't do that with just games,
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: we try to,
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 19:13
  make additional efforts on the whole franchise and the flywheel
• 19:16
  and then how we did that,
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: for example,
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: with Cyberpunk Headrunners.
• 19:19
  uh we know we are doing a lot on the on the board game side
• 19:21
  like you know comic
• 19:22
  books whatnot just to make sure that there's been many mediums
• 19:25
  where we can touch
• 19:26
  on those broader broader audiences uh which are maybe not even
• 19:29
  necessarily gamers
• 19:30
  right i mean those people those people will be introduced to
• 19:33
  the ips and then the
• 19:34
  video game should be at the center of it but we are not just
• 19:37
  competing with other
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: games at this point so you know
• 19:39
  It's about entertainment and your time and how those players
• 19:44
  and those people like
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: the other audiences are spending their free time.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to make sure to be there.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: with the conversation about the battle for time,
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: I often say that your competition isn't just,
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: you're launching on June 5th with a load of big Nintendo games,
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: but what's coming out of the cinema and what's on Netflix that week,
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: and you're competing on all fronts.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you talked about,
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: here's the thing for me,
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: I've got The Witcher 3 on Xbox,
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: but I'm a dad of two young children and I don't get...
• 20:11
  too much time to play these things on the screen the cyberpunk
• 20:14
  is a great example
• 20:15
  this game i've probably only done about five hours of the fact
• 20:17
  that it's now on i
• 20:18
  mean i never i don't have a steam deck the fact that it's now
• 20:21
  on switch 2 means
• 20:22
  great i loved what i played of those five hours i now will have
• 20:25
  a chance because
• 20:26
  it's flexible it fits into my life right it does i don't need
• 20:29
  tv time to play it
• 20:31
  yes it's a wonderful sort of opportunity for me to play these
• 20:34
  um things and i am a
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: hardcore game
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Same story here.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: I travel quite a lot,
• 20:38
  and then I purposely waited for the Switch 2 to come out to
• 20:43
  catch up with my Switch
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: 1 backlog,
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: because I spent quite a lot of time on the plane,
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: and then this is my,
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: plane-on-the-go fantasy,
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: and I know there will be titles which I did not,
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: for example,
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: have time to experience on a TV or,
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: a PC,
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: which I will be able to now play,
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: on a plate,
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: for example.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that's very cool.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Elden Ring,
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: all the games that they've announced,
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've played a chunk of them,
• 21:03
  but we've not finished them or certainly not played them as
• 21:06
  much as I'd like.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very exciting to me.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I'm expecting your PR person to pull you off the screen.
• 21:13
  So is it possible we might see CD Projekt again on Switch 2 in
• 21:17
  the future?
• 21:19
  well there's nothing to announce or speak to because even if
• 21:23
  and if and if we had
• 21:24
  something planned you know i cannot tell you right now but what
• 21:27
  i can tell you is
• 21:27
  that we will surely be looking at the platform i'm expecting it
• 21:31
  to share at least
• 21:31
  the similar level of success as switch one maybe at some point
• 21:34
  we'll we'll be there
• 21:35
  with with in the future again you know it's impossible to
• 21:38
  ignore what was what i
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: can tell you and then uh of course you know we have a big
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: triple-A games on the way, but there is nothing.
• 21:46
  The biggest focus right now is to develop them and make them
• 21:50
  available to the players,
• 21:51
  but of course the Switch 2 will surely remain at the center of
• 21:55
  our focus as well.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'll hold fingers crossed for Witcher 4 and Switch then.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I thought I'd at least try and ask.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's all I've got in terms of questions.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Jan, for being part of the show today.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And really good luck with the launch.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's really a pleasure to be here.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I appreciate it.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's all we have time for today.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: For those watching or listening to the show,
• 22:21
  you can see all of our Switch 2 coverage and indeed all of our
• 22:23
  feature topics and
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: interviews on thegamebusiness.com.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: If you go there and put in your email address,
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: you'll make sure you'll never miss an episode,
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: never miss a newsletter or feature or story.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And most importantly, it's all free.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: So please do that.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, thank you for tuning in.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Favorite Nintendo game?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Super Mario 64.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Can't argue with that.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: What is the Switch 2 feature that excites you the most?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: Mouse aiming.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: Do you mostly play Switch in handheld mode, dock mode or tabletop mode?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Handheld.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think anyone's going to say tabletop.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Excluding Cyberpunk and excluding Nintendo first party games,
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: which Switch 2 title are you most interested in playing?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Elden Ring.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Will Switch 2 outsell Switch 1?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: I hope so.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: What is your Mario Kart character of choice?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Wario, or Vario as we call it.
• 23:17
  If you could give one piece of advice to a developer or
• 23:19
  publisher looking to work
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: on Switch 2,
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: what would it be?
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Do not underestimate the physical edition.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Nintendo players are very receptive or like,
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: appreciative of physical editions downright.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Poetic.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Couldn't have said it better.