Latest / The Christian Podcast Community / Finding the Right Church: When Should Christians Stay, Leave, or Stop Church Hopping?

Transcript

Finding the Right Church: When Should Christians Stay, Leave, or Stop Church Hopping? · The Christian Podcast Community

• 0:00
  What's going on, everybody?
• 0:01
  What's up, everybody?
• 0:02
  Hey, how you doing?
• 0:03
  I am Derek.
• 0:05
  And I am Matt.
• 0:06
  And I am Dave.
• 0:08
  Okay.
• 0:09
  Now that we got the IMs out,.
• 0:12
  Hopefully the I am will stay.
• 0:15
  Oh, man.
• 0:18
  So today we are going to talk about church hopping.
• 0:21
  All right.
• 0:22
  Church hopping.
• 0:23
  Shopping.
• 0:24
  Yeah, Hopping and shopping.
• 0:26
  Putting it.
• 0:27
  You do so.
• 0:27
  But if you're in that phase of life right now.
• 0:30
  Yeah, we're gonna talk about it.
• 0:32
  Putting a bunch of churches in your Amazon cart and being like, we'll review these later.
• 0:37
  Looking at the Google reviews.
• 0:39
  Yeah.
• 0:39
  Where should we start?
• 0:40
  The Google reviews.
• 0:41
  You know a funny story about that.
• 0:44
  Who?
• 0:45
  Was it you?
• 0:46
  Or was it.
• 0:46
  Was it Will that preached on sex and he usually got a one star review.
• 0:53
  He.
• 0:54
  He didn't preach.
• 0:55
  Like the whole sermon wasn't on.
• 0:56
  No, but it got mentioned.
• 0:57
  Yeah.
• 0:58
  In the sermon.
• 0:59
  And we got a one star review that we talked about such things from the pulpit.
• 1:04
  That's where you should be talking about, you know what?
• 1:07
  But there are younger ears in the room.
• 1:10
  And so.
• 1:10
  And it's like, wow.
• 1:12
  Well, there was, there's, there's.
• 1:13
  We have facilities.
• 1:15
  We have programs for that.
• 1:17
  Yep.
• 1:17
  And like we have.
• 1:18
  Dude, in the 1900s, a 10 year old would be scouting his wife.
• 1:26
  You know, so.
• 1:27
  Yeah, I mean.
• 1:29
  Okay, that got off topic real quick.
• 1:31
  We're going to talk about what it is to, you know, if you're looking for a church versus are you looking.
• 1:38
  Are you thinking you might have to leave your church?
• 1:42
  Is there such thing as a better church?
• 1:45
  Is the grass truly greener on the other side?
• 1:48
  You know.
• 1:49
  Yeah.
• 1:50
  Those are all wonderful questions.
• 1:52
  And you know, there's a lot of people that struggle through a lot of that.
• 1:55
  A lot of things to think about and when choosing a church.
• 2:00
  Yep.
• 2:01
  And sometimes, sometimes there's sacrifice when it comes to choosing a church.
• 2:07
  Yeah.
• 2:07
  And maybe when and if you should stay or when and if you should leave.
• 2:11
  Yeah, it's great.
• 2:13
  Okay, cool.
• 2:15
  That's what we're talking about today is church shopping.
• 2:19
  Church hopping, hopping, shopping.
• 2:23
  He got stuck again.
• 2:26
  Okay.
• 2:27
  Yeah.
• 2:27
  So buckle up.
• 2:29
  Welcome to the treat response.
• 2:52
  In the noise, in the fire we seek the truth we climb higher not just echoes, not just talk we walk the path, we walk the wall Truth in the battle Light in the loss what we see Clarity and
• 3:16
  chaos.
• 3:23
  Matt, can you pray for us today?
• 3:26
  Yes, I will.
• 3:29
  All right.
• 3:29
  Father, thank you for just today another day to come in and be your light in the world.
• 3:36
  Thank you for choosing us to be here and for calling us into your light and help thank you for calling everyone who hears your voice, who hears even this podcast, who's in this world to your light.
• 3:52
  Help them all answer.
• 3:54
  Let them all turn to it, not be afraid of it, be willing to step into it.
• 4:00
  Let them be cleaned of the things they're afraid to hide, that to be seen so that they can stand firm and reflect only you in Jesus name.
• 4:11
  Amen.
• 4:11
  Amen.
• 4:13
  So church hopping.
• 4:16
  Let's address church hopping.
• 4:17
  Church hopping.
• 4:18
  Well, first, I gotta.
• 4:19
  I gotta.
• 4:19
  I gotta.
• 4:20
  I got a story.
• 4:20
  You got a thing.
• 4:21
  Okay, yeah.
• 4:22
  So, like.
• 4:22
  All right, so there's this.
• 4:23
  Is this an announcement?
• 4:24
  Are you leaving us?
• 4:25
  No, no, it's a story.
• 4:26
  I didn't say an announcement.
• 4:26
  We have a little drop and it goes like.
• 4:28
  Did you just say oh?
• 4:30
  I go, oh, dang.
• 4:33
  We're gonna have a conversation later.
• 4:36
  I'm just teasing.
• 4:37
  Okay, sir, is this.
• 4:38
  If anything happens to either one of us in the future, just.
• 4:41
  There's a ship captain.
• 4:43
  Let me get my story.
• 4:44
  So the captain of a ship.
• 4:45
  There's a ship captain's traveling down a waterway, and he looks over and he sees a small island.
• 4:48
  And on this small island, he notices three little huts.
• 4:51
  He's like, oh, my goodness.
• 4:52
  There's people who have probably been stuck on this island for a long time.
• 4:54
  So he pulls the ship over and he gets on the island and this one guy comes walking up to him.
• 4:58
  Oh, my gosh, I've been here for so long.
• 5:00
  Yep.
• 5:01
  He's like, is it just you?
• 5:02
  And he's like, yeah, it's just me.
• 5:03
  He's like, but there's three huts.
• 5:04
  He goes, well, that one's my house.
• 5:06
  He's like, okay, but there's two other huts.
• 5:08
  He goes, yeah, the one in the middle, that's my church.
• 5:11
  That's where I worship.
• 5:12
  And he's like, oh, okay, but there's three huts.
• 5:15
  And he goes, yeah, that's the church I used to go to.
• 5:17
  And so.
• 5:20
  And that is the point, like, I gotta tell you guys, first off, let's realize that every church, okay, every one of the churches that are around nowadays, I think every single one of them, unless it started today, and
• 5:31
  maybe even it works for today.
• 5:33
  It's always a church that someone used to go to.
• 5:36
  So for whatever reason.
• 5:37
  That's so funny.
• 5:38
  Yeah, I love it because it's just an empty building.
• 5:41
  I love preacher stories.
• 5:42
  You're welcome.
• 5:44
  That's probably the best one I've heard.
• 5:46
  That is the best way to describe it.
• 5:48
  And that.
• 5:48
  That hits to the core, though.
• 5:50
  That hits to the Core of the problem.
• 5:52
  Yeah.
• 5:52
  A lot of times, whenever you're so fed up with what's going on at the church, it's you.
• 5:58
  Usually.
• 5:58
  Well, not you.
• 5:59
  Not even usually.
• 6:00
  But I'm saying, like, a lot of the times it's you because it's your perspective.
• 6:04
  Perspective is big.
• 6:06
  Yeah, it's your perspective.
• 6:07
  And sometimes, like, even through church splits, because I've been through several.
• 6:11
  Right.
• 6:12
  Through major church splits.
• 6:13
  Have you caused them?
• 6:14
  I have not.
• 6:15
  I have not been the one causing them.
• 6:16
  Like, I've split so many.
• 6:18
  No, no, no, no.
• 6:19
  But I've been through several church splits.
• 6:21
  And the biggest thing is people want to just pack up and go.
• 6:26
  They do.
• 6:27
  And it's like you are part of the problem because you aren't willing to stay and help fix this.
• 6:34
  You don't.
• 6:34
  You're not willing to.
• 6:36
  To work through the hard stuff.
• 6:37
  You don't have the endurance.
• 6:39
  You want somewhere where you're just going to get stuff handed to you.
• 6:45
  And to those people, some people, some of you have to go.
• 6:50
  I get that.
• 6:50
  Don't hear me say that all of you are the problem.
• 6:53
  I am saying I understand that some of you need to leave in order to heal.
• 6:57
  I get that.
• 6:59
  But I would really, really deeply think about whether you are leaving for the right reasons or if staying could actually help fix things.
• 7:10
  Because I've always been one who stayed and seen the.
• 7:15
  The other side of that and the rebuilding and, and the fixing.
• 7:20
  Because most of the time a church split happens and the church stays.
• 7:28
  I mean, like, the church is there still, you know, it's not like the church closes doors every time a church mess happens, you know, And I know, like, Victories had one.
• 7:39
  Um, in the not too distant future, my home church had two.
• 7:43
  Did you say they had one?
• 7:44
  In the not too distant future.
• 7:45
  Are you predicting something?
• 7:46
  History, Whatever.
• 7:47
  Past.
• 7:47
  What?
• 7:48
  You know what I meant.
• 7:49
  I'm not always good with words.
• 7:51
  I've been through two in.
• 7:52
  In one church.
• 7:54
  Yep.
• 7:54
  You know, when I was growing, when I was younger.
• 7:57
  Can't say when I was growing up, it was after I was in college and whatnot.
• 8:00
  But sure.
• 8:01
  So I would say that, like, perspective check, perspective is the biggest thing to start with.
• 8:07
  With when it comes to anything like that.
• 8:09
  But church hopping.
• 8:10
  Yeah, that's one way.
• 8:12
  That's one reason a church hopping happens.
• 8:13
  What else?
• 8:14
  Well, everybody's trying to find.
• 8:17
  And I got a poem for it as I've been saving this.
• 8:20
  But everybody's trying.
• 8:21
  I'm serious.
• 8:23
  Wait till we talk about church hopping.
• 8:25
  This is just a Perfect poem for.
• 8:27
  A pastor keeps these kind of things in a folder.
• 8:29
  Okay.
• 8:30
  So anyway, reason for.
• 8:32
  So some people are looking for the perfect.
• 8:34
  I'm looking for the perfect church.
• 8:36
  Right.
• 8:36
  I'm looking for the place that's just perfect for me.
• 8:39
  Me, perfect church.
• 8:40
  And here's.
• 8:41
  Here's.
• 8:41
  Here's a poem I found, and it's so good.
• 8:44
  It's called the Perfect Church.
• 8:45
  And it says, if you should find the perfect church, one with without fault or smear, for goodness sake, don't join that church.
• 8:54
  You spoil the atmosphere.
• 8:55
  If you should find the perfect church, where all anxieties cease, then pass by, lest joining it, you spoil the masterpiece.
• 9:03
  If you should find the perfect church, then don't you ever dare to tread upon such holy ground.
• 9:09
  You'd be a misfit there.
• 9:11
  But since no perfect church exists made of perfect men, let's cease looking for that church and love the church we're in.
• 9:19
  Of course it's not a perfect church.
• 9:21
  That's simple to discern.
• 9:23
  But you and I and all of us could cause the tide to turn.
• 9:27
  Yeah, that's good.
• 9:29
  That's real good.
• 9:30
  Yeah, so I've had that one.
• 9:32
  So, yeah, people are always looking for this thing as if, like.
• 9:36
  And the problem is, is like, I think part of the problem is they're looking for their preferences.
• 9:42
  They're looking for their.
• 9:43
  I want people to agree with me, which is dangerous.
• 9:46
  It's almost as dangerous as trying to go it on yourself.
• 9:49
  Yeah.
• 9:49
  You know, the proverbs tell us that a man who only listens to himself is going to folly.
• 9:53
  Like, it's this bad advice.
• 9:56
  If you're looking for people that just agree with you, that's not necessarily a good thing.
• 10:00
  You know, you.
• 10:01
  You got to find a place where you can be challenged.
• 10:03
  Challenged spiritually.
• 10:04
  You need to be growing in your faith.
• 10:07
  And I.
• 10:07
  I think that's a part of a word that people don't like to hear, and that's accountability.
• 10:13
  Right.
• 10:13
  Like you need accountability.
• 10:14
  And the pushback, the, the growing, the.
• 10:18
  The differing opinions on things that aren't like the major things, you know.
• 10:23
  Yeah.
• 10:23
  To make you think, to make you dig.
• 10:25
  Because you're not going to grow unless you're thinking and digging.
• 10:28
  Yes.
• 10:28
  So, yeah, it definitely needs to be a place that you are accountable, but it is needed to just be a place that you feed.
• 10:34
  Because, I mean, that's what.
• 10:36
  We feed off each other, we grow off each other.
• 10:38
  But it also needs to be a place that you serve.
• 10:42
  Yeah.
• 10:43
  Yeah.
• 10:43
  Because the place that you said feed so not a place that you feed on, a place that you feed both, right?
• 10:49
  Yeah, right.
• 10:49
  You're getting fed, you're feeding others.
• 10:51
  Like that's the whole point.
• 10:52
  We're serving each other.
• 10:54
  You know, when you think about church and what the church is supposed to be, right?
• 10:59
  It is, it's for Jesus, right.
• 11:04
  He designed it so that we would come along and assemble together, right.
• 11:09
  For one purpose and that is him.
• 11:11
  And so if we're assembling for Jesus, that's actually why I like, like ag churches, assembly of God.
• 11:20
  I like the name like it's, it's a good name.
• 11:22
  Assembly is actually a proper name for it.
• 11:25
  Doesn't mean that every church needs to change their name or anything, but it's, it's, it works because it, that's what it says.
• 11:30
  We're supposed to assemble together for a purpose and that is Jesus.
• 11:34
  And so if we're doing that and anybody that comes to the doors is going to assemble with us, we're pointing to the same thing.
• 11:39
  Yeah, yeah.
• 11:40
  The one thing that everything is built on and based on, you know, and so if you're looking for a church, what you.
• 11:46
  I would say we should look at the forefront.
• 11:49
  Look for a place that you can go in that you're gonna, that's Bible based obviously, and points at Jesus.
• 11:57
  A place that you can come in, you're getting fed, but then you can feed others, not just consume.
• 12:02
  There's, there's an important distinction between two things though.
• 12:05
  And one is preferences which can come and go.
• 12:09
  Right?
• 12:09
  Preferences, your preferences, if you get preferences that you like.
• 12:13
  Sweet.
• 12:14
  But preferences shouldn't be the thing that deters you from going somewhere.
• 12:18
  However, convictions are another thing and I think that that's important to distinguish because things like when you say, you know, Bible based.
• 12:28
  Right.
• 12:29
  That's kind of a catch all and I think we should talk a little bit more about what that means when we're talking about this because does that mean they have communion?
• 12:43
  A Bible, A Bible based church?
• 12:44
  Will every Bible based church serve communion?
• 12:47
  Well, I mean I think every church should church depending.
• 12:51
  I mean there's difference opinions on how often.
• 12:54
  Right, okay, right.
• 12:55
  But that's that and even sometimes the method.
• 12:57
  But the nuances, that's the preference.
• 13:00
  That's the preference.
• 13:00
  Communion is something that we are told to do.
• 13:03
  Right.
• 13:03
  Therefore in assembly.
• 13:05
  In assembly, mind you, we were supposed to do this.
• 13:07
  So therefore, yeah, any church should be a communion church.
• 13:11
  But do you see how that can be an easy like confusion point?
• 13:15
  It could be.
• 13:16
  Well, I mean, like, okay, so you said like preferences.
• 13:18
  So, like, sometimes it's like, well, I like the traditional style music and liturgy.
• 13:23
  Okay, first off, we've mentioned this before.
• 13:27
  Just remember that if you don't necessarily love one worship song, it's okay because they're not worshiping you, they're worshiping Jesus.
• 13:33
  So that's at the forefront, I would say.
• 13:37
  I mean, the biggest preference is that you can see that God is in that place and it's moving.
• 13:44
  Something is happening.
• 13:45
  You know, you can see that God is in a church.
• 13:48
  When you can see people coming to faith, you can see people growing.
• 13:51
  You know, there's.
• 13:52
  There's telltale signs that some people are taking it the wrong way, but that's not necessarily a reason to leave.
• 13:56
  Sometimes they need somebody to show them that it's not about their.
• 14:00
  Their ways, that they've become complacent in certain things.
• 14:06
  So.
• 14:07
  But yeah, so you want to place.
• 14:08
  You can see God in it.
• 14:09
  God's working.
• 14:10
  That's what you want to be a part of.
• 14:11
  You want to be a part of what God's doing.
• 14:13
  Yeah.
• 14:13
  And so.
• 14:15
  And a biblical based church is one that's actually preaching the scriptures, you know, that's actually going in and giving you sermons and messages and scripture.
• 14:25
  That's.
• 14:25
  I mean, we're feeding on the number one thing, which is God's word.
• 14:30
  I don't get me wrong, a great topical sermon can be great.
• 14:35
  But if.
• 14:36
  If it doesn't have scripture in it, if it's not helping you understand scripture, if it's not helping scripture get into you at all, then that would be a cause for possible alarm.
• 14:47
  Can I play devil's advocate just a little bit?
• 14:50
  100 and I have a story.
• 14:51
  I want to go, but you'd go play devil's advocate.
• 14:53
  What about Dolstein's church?
• 14:55
  He uses Bible.
• 14:57
  You also want to make sure it's.
• 14:58
  Used the proper way.
• 14:59
  Well, okay, that's important.
• 15:02
  But what does that mean?
• 15:03
  Because I think that we got to think about the audience.
• 15:06
  Right?
• 15:06
  Okay.
• 15:07
  And some of you out there understand the difference, but others may not.
• 15:11
  I mean, we do have someone who's like 12 listening, you know, on a regular basis.
• 15:17
  He may not know what it means to have all of that stuff.
• 15:21
  There's some people who use the Bible to teach, and then other people use the Bible to step a little bit higher than everybody else.
• 15:27
  All right.
• 15:27
  Okay.
• 15:28
  Yeah, we gotta be checking.
• 15:29
  We got even to be checking our messages to the Bible, which, you know, it's one of those things like we're Gonna have to do the episode on.
• 15:35
  On how to study the Bible, how to read the Bible and enjoy it and get a lot out of it and all that stuff.
• 15:41
  Maybe that needs to be our next episode.
• 15:43
  Maybe.
• 15:43
  But look at that, guys.
• 15:47
  But that just happened organically.
• 15:49
  You want to be able to read the first off, a Bible reading should be a habit that we do.
• 15:53
  And therefore when we do hear preacher, we can look at the Bible.
• 15:56
  And the more you understand the Bible as you go, you'll be able to understand and discern if it is.
• 16:03
  Goes within what the Bible is giving you or if it's not.
• 16:07
  And there are some, that.
• 16:08
  There are some.
• 16:09
  You know, Jo is a good one that sometimes like, you reached a bit.
• 16:14
  Yeah, a lot.
• 16:16
  I actually have an example of it.
• 16:18
  You want.
• 16:18
  Do you have something that's an example of that or something that's.
• 16:21
  You do the, you do the thing first.
• 16:22
  I have a way I would like to take us, but you go, I want to hear what you have to say.
• 16:26
  So even my daughter, right.
• 16:30
  She has studied the Bible enough to catch things, right?
• 16:34
  Yeah.
• 16:35
  So I watch a lot of videos that are like, you know, back and forth between two different viewpoints or whatever.
• 16:42
  And I was listening to a preacher not too long ago, and he brought up Cain and Abel and that Cain, his.
• 16:54
  His.
• 16:55
  His sacrifice, his.
• 16:57
  His.
• 16:58
  His offering was rejected and that Abel's was accepted.
• 17:03
  And his response to why was that?
• 17:08
  Because Keynes was rejected because he had grain and the ground had been cursed in the garden from us sinning.
• 17:16
  And therefore his offering was rejected because it was a grain for.
• 17:20
  From the ground.
• 17:21
  And my daughter goes, nope.
• 17:24
  She's like.
• 17:26
  She's like, nope, that's not true.
• 17:28
  She was like, that's.
• 17:29
  It's because he, he didn't give his best.
• 17:33
  He didn't give it from his heart and his first.
• 17:35
  And your daughter's awesome.
• 17:37
  It was like.
• 17:37
  It was like, yep, yep, yep.
• 17:40
  Good on you.
• 17:41
  So that's wonderful.
• 17:42
  You know?
• 17:43
  You know, I mean, that's.
• 17:44
  That's what he's talking about is like, is.
• 17:46
  Is being able to be like, that's not true.
• 17:49
  Like to be able to catch those things and to be able to do that, you have to be studying your word on a regular basis too.
• 17:55
  So I love that she was like, nope, because I do that same thing, but I do it with everything.
• 17:59
  Like, if the Bible is even mentioned in the wrong way in a movie or anything, I'm like, no, no, no, that's not it.
• 18:05
  Do we need to do another movie night?
• 18:07
  We used to do this thing.
• 18:08
  Yeah.
• 18:08
  Where we would watch Bible based movies.
• 18:12
  And pick them apart and just rip.
• 18:14
  Them to shreds and it is so much fun.
• 18:16
  Well, we.
• 18:17
  Do we get one.
• 18:18
  Oh, we should try to play one soon.
• 18:20
  Actually.
• 18:20
  This is a good time of year because it's just cooling down a little bit.
• 18:23
  I think my, I think my favorite one was the, the scene in Facing the Giants where he like going through something and then he runs to his truck and pulls out a Bible and just starts reading.
• 18:31
  I'm like, yes, because that's what we do.
• 18:34
  That's why the scriptures say hide his word in our heart.
• 18:37
  Yeah.
• 18:38
  Yeah.
• 18:39
  Well, so that we know it when it's time.
• 18:41
  We, we shredded some things anyways.
• 18:44
  It sounds like fun.
• 18:45
  We won't get into that.
• 18:46
  That's why you got to read your Bible.
• 18:47
  Yeah, you got to read your Bible so you can.
• 18:49
  Well, I mean that's, that's one of our best defenses against not just what culture is going to try to tell us because the culture's oftentimes is going to get it wrong and present it to us.
• 18:59
  And if you're not careful, you're going to believe what it tells you.
• 19:02
  But you can do the same thing if you, if you don't know that you're being led by someone who is not properly doing, reading his Bible, doing and studying it the right way and really trying to be obedient
• 19:17
  to God in it, then you're going to find messages that are telling.
• 19:21
  Tell you the wrong things and we got to be careful about that.
• 19:24
  So luckily there's a, there's so many good ones out there.
• 19:29
  So.
• 19:29
  But yeah, trying to find the right one is important.
• 19:33
  Okay, but, but, but if the messages are good and let's say the songs aren't bad, you can get into it, you can sing it and you made a couple friends there.
• 19:48
  Let's ask about why you might want to leave a church versus why you should probably just hang out.
• 19:56
  Okay.
• 19:56
  So if I can walk you through my journey, I feel like a lot of people are going to go like, oh, I see where he's going.
• 20:02
  Or maybe you identify with it.
• 20:04
  We'll find out.
• 20:04
  So I grew up in an evangelical church, which I've always said is kind of like a diet Baptist church.
• 20:09
  For those who don't know, we still sing out of hymnals, but the ladies can wear pants.
• 20:14
  So we, So I.
• 20:15
  Great.
• 20:16
  So I grew up under the, my, my understanding of the church culture where I grew up.
• 20:22
  And this is not to knock the church where I Grew up.
• 20:24
  So if anybody's actually listening, I'm not, like, slamming you.
• 20:27
  This is just my experience.
• 20:28
  My high school experience is I always felt like everyone around me would use the Bible to beat people up and we're all better than you and that kind of stuff.
• 20:37
  So as soon as I turned 18 and my mom said, you now have the choice to go, I said, well, then I don't want to go.
• 20:42
  I'm done experiencing that culture.
• 20:44
  So I just stayed home.
• 20:46
  I didn't do anything nefarious.
• 20:47
  Just for six years, I didn't go to church.
• 20:49
  Then when I met my wife, who was so deeply ingrained in church, I knew that going back to church was going to have to be a sacrifice that I made.
• 20:56
  So I always joke around that it worked.
• 20:58
  And she was so beautiful.
• 20:59
  I followed her back into church.
• 21:01
  Pretty girl.
• 21:01
  Evangelism.
• 21:02
  That's right.
• 21:03
  It works sometimes.
• 21:04
  Sometimes.
• 21:04
  Most of the time does not.
• 21:06
  It works.
• 21:06
  So then when she came, when she moved out to Minnesota, we started church shopping.
• 21:12
  I even went to Alice Jabeg's church for a month.
• 21:14
  You went to Alistair's church?
• 21:15
  Yeah.
• 21:15
  I love that dude.
• 21:17
  I've listened.
• 21:18
  Okay, going.
• 21:18
  Yep.
• 21:19
  So he was brilliant.
• 21:20
  Got to meet him twice.
• 21:21
  Super cool dude.
• 21:22
  But the worship was not that.
• 21:25
  The worship was lacking.
• 21:26
  So I'm not saying, hey, Alistair Beck's church.
• 21:28
  The worship sucks.
• 21:29
  But for some reason, my wife was just having a hard time getting plugged into the worship.
• 21:33
  She's like, I just don't get anything out of this.
• 21:35
  And this is the most important part for me.
• 21:37
  So as amazing as the preaching was, we were like, okay, well, we both want to feel comfortable here.
• 21:42
  So we decided, let's check somewhere else.
• 21:45
  We bounced around to a few places, tried one for a couple weeks, tried one for a couple weeks.
• 21:48
  And then one day, I remember I was so annoyed after two years of church shopping that I.
• 21:55
  I remember we woke up on a Sunday.
• 21:56
  She had found a church called Celebration Church in Lakeville.
• 21:59
  And I said, this is the last one.
• 22:01
  I'm so tired of doing shopping.
• 22:02
  If we can't find it, then you can keep shopping on your own.
• 22:05
  But I'm done.
• 22:06
  And I remember walking to the church.
• 22:07
  There was us and one other car in the parking lot.
• 22:09
  So, like, nobody was there.
• 22:10
  We must have showed up mad early.
• 22:12
  So go in.
• 22:13
  And we open the door.
• 22:14
  The lights aren't even, like, fully on.
• 22:16
  There's a few lights on.
• 22:17
  But I remember walking in the door and nobody's there.
• 22:20
  But the minute I walked through the door, I felt this Rush of, like, I just walked into my own house, like, and there's no explanation.
• 22:26
  I have no idea why that's how I felt, but I was like, okay, maybe this is okay.
• 22:30
  And just that feeling helped me open up a little bit to that group.
• 22:34
  And that's where I found a group that showed me what Christianity was really like.
• 22:38
  Oh, you guys are all as broken as I am.
• 22:40
  Oh, that's cool.
• 22:41
  I had never experienced this before.
• 22:44
  So I think.
• 22:45
  I think what happens is most people are looking for and curious out of your opinion on this.
• 22:50
  I feel like when people are looking.
• 22:51
  When they're looking for a church, they are looking for a home.
• 22:55
  Right.
• 22:55
  They're looking for a home where I can just keep growing.
• 22:58
  What's your opinion on?
• 22:59
  Because, I mean, obviously our.
• 23:01
  The church was created as a place to equip the saints.
• 23:04
  And so, to a degree, it's almost more like a gym than it is a home.
• 23:08
  Right.
• 23:09
  You're supposed to come in, get trained, and go out and be, you know, be strong.
• 23:12
  So what's your opinion on, like, where we should.
• 23:15
  How we should be viewing church as your home base and your home and where you're going to learn and grow for however many years versus I'm coming in to learn so I can be stronger to go back out
• 23:26
  and do God.
• 23:26
  Can I answer format?
• 23:29
  I mean, are you going to.
• 23:30
  Yeah, I'm going to answer for you.
• 23:32
  All right.
• 23:33
  It's like.
• 23:34
  It's like the home remedy, medicine stuff, like his wife does.
• 23:39
  It's that it's a home, but it's also a hospital.
• 23:43
  Right.
• 23:44
  Like, it.
• 23:44
  Is it.
• 23:45
  Is that.
• 23:46
  That.
• 23:48
  You know what I'm talking about?
• 23:49
  Yeah.
• 23:49
  Yeah.
• 23:50
  No.
• 23:51
  Okay, go ahead.
• 23:52
  Oh, that was.
• 23:52
  That was adorable.
• 23:53
  Did you see him really try?
• 23:55
  Anyway, so listen.
• 24:00
  Yeah.
• 24:01
  Comfort is something that can be a little tricky because sometimes we need to be uncomfortable.
• 24:05
  Sure.
• 24:08
  It's already uncomfortable enough, though, if you're hopping churches.
• 24:11
  Well, hopping churches.
• 24:12
  It's funny, you start, you got to ask yourself, what.
• 24:14
  What do you use it that you're actually looking for?
• 24:16
  And you got to be careful with that.
• 24:18
  But I love that you felt like at home.
• 24:20
  And I love.
• 24:21
  I love the part of the story where you said that you didn't know Christianity could be like this.
• 24:25
  Yep.
• 24:26
  There's something so amazing about that is when you can walk in and people are just real genuine.
• 24:32
  You don't feel like they're just putting on an act or putting on fake faces and they're willing to talk about their own struggles.
• 24:38
  But in a way, it's like, it's not about, hey, I'm gonna stay there.
• 24:41
  It's about, hey, this is where we're coming from.
• 24:44
  And you're coming from something too.
• 24:46
  Cool.
• 24:46
  Let's go together.
• 24:47
  And that's wonderful, that kind of home feeling.
• 24:50
  Like, as I hear people say that a lot, you know, this is my home, church.
• 24:55
  And I think that's wonderful.
• 24:58
  But oftentimes when we're in our houses, we're trying to find the comfort, comfortable spot.
• 25:05
  This is a place that.
• 25:06
  Yeah, it's the home where you're trying to find the uncomfortable spot.
• 25:09
  This is the place you should be coming in, going, all right, now make me nervous.
• 25:14
  Make me uncomfortable.
• 25:15
  Make me realize that there's something else that I should be working on right now.
• 25:19
  And it's.
• 25:19
  So it's a.
• 25:20
  It's similar, but it's not the same.
• 25:22
  Where you were going with this holistic approach, I guess when you talk with the.
• 25:26
  It's a house in a hospital.
• 25:28
  Yes.
• 25:29
  I mean, I will say I've said it before.
• 25:31
  I was just teasing you, but, I.
• 25:32
  Mean, I know you.
• 25:33
  It's a good mix.
• 25:34
  It is a hospital in a way, but it's run by the patients.
• 25:37
  Like, we're all trying to get better constantly.
• 25:41
  You know what I mean?
• 25:41
  Like, that's a beautiful.
• 25:42
  It is.
• 25:43
  That's wonderful.
• 25:44
  That's what it is.
• 25:45
  You know, so.
• 25:46
  But it's run by Jesus.
• 25:48
  Like, I mean, it's him, but, like, we're all the ones doing the work.
• 25:51
  Like, he's like, all right, he is the owner.
• 25:53
  He is the owner.
• 25:54
  But, yeah, so it's something that you get.
• 25:58
  Just kind of watch yourself.
• 25:59
  Are you going in because you just want to feel hot, nice and cozy all the time, or the messages to something just makes you feel super good all the time, or are you going in there and it's challenging
• 26:08
  you a little bit?
• 26:09
  And you.
• 26:10
  I'm the.
• 26:11
  I'm the kind of person that when I read the Bible, especially when I'm reading it for my.
• 26:14
  Well, not only when I read it for myself, because I'm looking for lessons, I'm looking for teachings.
• 26:18
  I'm looking for God to show me something, to bring a message to someone else.
• 26:21
  So basically, I'm doing this all the time, but when I read the Bible, I am looking for it to convict me.
• 26:26
  And I will hold myself up and go, okay, here's my heart.
• 26:30
  How does it match up to this?
• 26:33
  Where am I when it comes to this?
• 26:35
  And if this is saying you're not there yet, I'm like, okay, well, obviously you're telling me I got work to do.
• 26:40
  If it sells me, if I'm getting a message or lesson or something together that they're not going to be there yet either.
• 26:45
  Okay.
• 26:46
  Though now I know what to bring to them.
• 26:47
  Like, we got to work on this, guys.
• 26:48
  This is an in kind of thing.
• 26:50
  And.
• 26:51
  Or there's a reality that you're not thinking about, and here's a reality that you need to be thinking about.
• 26:55
  And so church should make us uncomfortable just as it is.
• 26:59
  Like, I.
• 27:01
  Nobody really wants to get sick.
• 27:03
  Right.
• 27:04
  Nobody wants to find a reason to go to a hospital.
• 27:06
  I mean, most normal people don't anyway.
• 27:08
  So, I mean.
• 27:09
  But you should go to church just to see what it is that you do need healing.
• 27:13
  You know, it's a little different in that, you know, you go in there, you're like, okay, so this is what I'm working on.
• 27:18
  Okay, I need to work on that too.
• 27:20
  Okay, I guess that's true.
• 27:22
  Or help sort out the mess.
• 27:24
  I feel like I'm a mess.
• 27:26
  Great start here.
• 27:27
  I think it's also fair to say that we oftentimes are both doctor and patient, not necessarily that the patients are all running the hospital.
• 27:39
  Because I don't struggle with all the same stuff you do, you know, And I think that it.
• 27:44
  It's.
• 27:45
  If I've been through it or I'm.
• 27:47
  I don't struggle with it, it's easier for me to be like, all right, hey, try this.
• 27:51
  And that's what we need in a church.
• 27:53
  Yeah.
• 27:53
  But at the same time, you can do the same thing, even if you are struggling with the same thing.
• 27:57
  Yeah.
• 27:58
  Think about our recovery.
• 27:59
  We have a.
• 27:59
  You have to approach it a little different, though.
• 28:02
  I mean, yes and no.
• 28:04
  Because recognizing like, hey, yeah, this is something that you struggle with.
• 28:09
  If you struggle with the same thing someone else does, and maybe you team up, let's hold each other accountable.
• 28:16
  Let's encourage each other past this.
• 28:17
  Let's know that this isn't the end.
• 28:19
  Let's keep our eyes fixed not on the problem, but on Jesus.
• 28:22
  Then we're going to get through it.
• 28:23
  And then you can minister to each other.
• 28:26
  And ministering at that point goes almost to the medical side of it, where it's like, we're going to help each other heal.
• 28:32
  We're going to help each other get better.
• 28:34
  It's the very much.
• 28:34
  The whole idea is that we're the salt of the earth.
• 28:36
  Salt helps persevere, preserve things, helps things better be better, and it helps Things to heal.
• 28:43
  That's what salt does.
• 28:44
  I have a hard time suggesting that someone go to someone who is struggling with the same thing for help.
• 28:56
  That's only if you, I mean, look, there's ways that you shouldn't, but you're, you're looking at it from a certain perspective.
• 29:02
  If someone's actively doing something they shouldn't be doing and thinks there's no problem with that, they should not be mentoring someone who is struggling with the same thing.
• 29:10
  What I'm trying to say, that's what I mean.
• 29:12
  Yeah, okay, but if.
• 29:13
  So we're saying the same thing, just a different Yesello.
• 29:16
  If you tried, okay, they could.
• 29:17
  But, but like I was saying earlier, if they are recognizing that I'm struggling with this, you're also struggling with this.
• 29:24
  We'd both like to not be struggling with this.
• 29:25
  Okay, let's go find someone and help.
• 29:27
  That's the problem.
• 29:28
  The problem then lies in, in that if you're struggling with this, I'm struggling this.
• 29:33
  We both don't want to be struggling in this.
• 29:35
  Neither of us know how to get out of this.
• 29:37
  So now we have to go to a third party who has, has dealt with that.
• 29:41
  And I'm not saying you can't.
• 29:42
  I'm just saying it's probably not the healthiest way of dealing with it.
• 29:45
  Is it perfect?
• 29:47
  Maybe not.
• 29:47
  But you know what?
• 29:49
  At the very least, if you have two people in a Bible, if you have two people in Jesus, there's a lot of work that can be done there.
• 29:55
  Sure.
• 29:55
  I don't disagree with that at all.
• 29:57
  We should be careful not to discount things.
• 29:59
  Are there better methods?
• 30:01
  Sometimes, sure, sure, sure.
• 30:04
  Usually, you know, maybe not every time.
• 30:07
  We're people, but sure.
• 30:08
  And so we need, I mean, but that's what the church is for.
• 30:11
  The church is to give us other people who are trying to be better.
• 30:15
  Yeah.
• 30:15
  I want to get us back to the home analogy because I think that we should look at it more as a first time new home buyer perspective.
• 30:29
  Right.
• 30:30
  Like it feels like home, but there's things that you've got to own.
• 30:36
  Right.
• 30:37
  You've got to own it.
• 30:37
  You've got to.
• 30:38
  There's.
• 30:39
  When things break, you got to help fix.
• 30:42
  When it's stressful being a new, a new homeowner.
• 30:46
  Right.
• 30:47
  Like you're like, I don't know.
• 30:48
  I didn't know these things were this.
• 30:50
  And I didn't know that was there.
• 30:51
  And I didn't know, you know, like, it can be stressful in that.
• 30:54
  In that as well.
• 30:55
  So the the needing to grow through things is more like that, where it's like, you know, I didn't know how to change out a faucet.
• 31:06
  Yeah.
• 31:06
  Or for me.
• 31:08
  Right.
• 31:08
  I.
• 31:10
  My toilet was leaking out from underneath of the thing.
• 31:13
  Yep.
• 31:13
  And I looked up some videos real quick and was like, oh, I can fix this.
• 31:17
  Right.
• 31:18
  It's just the little wax seal.
• 31:20
  I can do that, no problem.
• 31:21
  And then I swapped out the wax seal and got it all right back down on there, and it was gushing water out even worse.
• 31:28
  And I'm like, I don't know how to fix this.
• 31:29
  And so.
• 31:31
  You know what I mean?
• 31:32
  Yeah.
• 31:32
  I like that analogy because.
• 31:33
  Especially because I think about people who, when they're looking for a new house, as you were kind of saying, like, they often eat.
• 31:40
  Whether they're looking at it online or if they go see it in person at a showing, you know, they're trying to see.
• 31:44
  Do I see myself in here?
• 31:46
  Yeah.
• 31:46
  Yeah.
• 31:47
  Can I see us living in this house?
• 31:49
  Oh, I can see it because you can hear people going, oh, man, we could do that over there and we can do this over here.
• 31:55
  And then you hear them say the things, which is really funny to me when they're buying a house.
• 31:59
  And we can knock that wall out and say, because, like, we like it.
• 32:02
  But this is going to have to change, which is somehow, sometimes how people come into a church.
• 32:06
  We like this church, but we'd like to change some things.
• 32:09
  Exactly.
• 32:10
  I love this church.
• 32:10
  But your worship has to get better.
• 32:12
  The analogy can go even, even further with the fact that you walk into some houses and just the smell alone does not pass the test.
• 32:21
  Smells funky.
• 32:21
  No, my favorite was.
• 32:23
  I remember I went to this person's house.
• 32:24
  They had been living there for a year and two months.
• 32:26
  I walked in and I was like, it's kind of stuffy in here.
• 32:29
  They're like, yeah, our AC kind of sucks.
• 32:30
  We're having it looked at.
• 32:32
  And I was sitting there, and a few minutes later, I happened to look up, and I was like, dude, when have you.
• 32:35
  When was the last time you changed your AC filter?
• 32:37
  And he goes, what's an AC filter?
• 32:39
  So I looked up.
• 32:39
  I'm like, it's black.
• 32:41
  Like, I have an idea.
• 32:42
  So I think.
• 32:44
  Actually, you know what I got.
• 32:45
  I got.
• 32:46
  Let's see if we can expand this.
• 32:47
  I got this idea.
• 32:47
  Let's just.
• 32:48
  Let's just talk about this.
• 32:49
  All right, so maybe it's not going home in the sense of your house.
• 32:54
  Maybe it's like going back home for Thanksgiving Right.
• 32:58
  Where there's going to be some.
• 32:59
  No, no, no, no.
• 33:00
  Listen, listen, listen, listen.
• 33:02
  See where I'm going with this?
• 33:03
  Well, run the analysis.
• 33:05
  Let me run it through.
• 33:06
  Go through.
• 33:07
  So maybe it's like going home for the holidays or going home for Thanksgiving.
• 33:09
  I like Thanksgiving because, like, you're going to be praising and you're supposed to be saying thankful things on Thanksgiving.
• 33:13
  That's why I use that one.
• 33:14
  But let's say it's going home for the holidays, right?
• 33:16
  You're going home.
• 33:17
  It's someplace familiar, someplace you're supposed to feel good in.
• 33:19
  Is there going to be some uncomfortable conversations?
• 33:21
  Yes, there are.
• 33:22
  Is there going to be some times you're like, man, I could leave right now?
• 33:24
  Yes, there are.
• 33:25
  Or are there going to be times where you can be embraced and hugged and you're going to have somebody come alongside you and go, you know, we just love you right now?
• 33:35
  Yes.
• 33:35
  Those kings can happen, too.
• 33:37
  That's what it's like to go home sometimes, especially when you come from, you know, your whole family starts to come to one place.
• 33:42
  Maybe that's what it's like.
• 33:43
  It's like what it should feel like to come home for the holidays.
• 33:46
  And every Sunday is a holiday.
• 33:47
  Every Wednesday night's a holiday where you get to come in and go, I.
• 33:51
  Can get on board with you.
• 33:52
  Family's together for this holiday, and it could be a little comfortable tonight.
• 33:55
  But you know what?
• 33:56
  You're not going to regret that you came because I was with family.
• 33:58
  Look, and.
• 33:59
  And honestly, I was wondering how you're gonna end that one.
• 34:02
  Okay, go ahead.
• 34:02
  That.
• 34:03
  That could.
• 34:03
  That could track.
• 34:04
  Because sometimes you just want to not actually do it, but sometimes you want to, like, kill somebody.
• 34:10
  You want to take a frying pan.
• 34:12
  I am so tired of you doing this thing.
• 34:14
  And then you've got to.
• 34:16
  You've got to catch yourself and be like, yo, mom, why do you butter.
• 34:19
  Both sides of the bread?
• 34:20
  This is delicious.
• 34:21
  But I love this person and I need to change my behavior.
• 34:25
  Right?
• 34:25
  Like, yeah, that's what I'm saying is like, yeah, the whole church split thing, right?
• 34:31
  It goes back to that.
• 34:32
  Where it's like, is that your home?
• 34:34
  Because if it is, you, you should stick around.
• 34:37
  Okay.
• 34:37
  You should stick around and.
• 34:38
  And figure out how to love people through the fix.
• 34:42
  Yeah.
• 34:42
  So here's a go ahead.
• 34:44
  No, no, that's your turn.
• 34:46
  It's my turn.
• 34:47
  Okay.
• 34:47
  We like this speaking.
• 34:48
  We've been talking a lot.
• 34:49
  That's fair.
• 34:51
  No, when you were talking, you were talking about.
• 34:54
  Got over the head and it's the.
• 34:55
  The.
• 34:55
  The hospital and we're all taking care of ourselves.
• 34:58
  I just got this vision of Gru and all the minions, and it was like, oh, Dave, Dave, stop.
• 35:02
  Stop.
• 35:03
  Oh, my gosh.
• 35:03
  Put down the bug.
• 35:04
  So that's got to be how God feels about us sometimes.
• 35:07
  I love that analogy.
• 35:08
  As if we're all the minions and God is actually a competent crew going, what are you doing?
• 35:14
  But here's.
• 35:15
  Okay, so here's a serious question.
• 35:17
  How often do you think it actually happens that God will call you out of a church?
• 35:22
  Like, I don't want you going to Rise Church anymore.
• 35:24
  Now I want you going to Ocean's Church.
• 35:26
  I think that happens a lot, but.
• 35:28
  Okay.
• 35:28
  But not necessarily across town.
• 35:30
  Sometimes across states, maybe, I think.
• 35:32
  Well, I mean, God calls people out of an area for ways that we can't even really understand until later.
• 35:41
  Sometimes a family just suddenly moves, Suddenly a job change, whatever it is, and they're gone.
• 35:46
  And it's.
• 35:46
  It's hard.
• 35:47
  You know, if you've ever had to leave a church that you loved, then you kind of know what I'm talking about.
• 35:53
  It's like, I don't want to leave this church, and now I got to find another one.
• 35:56
  And it's not going to be the same.
• 35:58
  Be careful with that, too, because comparison is.
• 36:00
  I actually have a story about that, but.
• 36:01
  You finished your thought.
• 36:02
  But, yeah, but, like, so I think God does pull us away for different reasons.
• 36:05
  I mean, we have.
• 36:06
  I have.
• 36:06
  There was a lady that is in our church, and I.
• 36:09
  I absolutely love her, and she's amazing, and she's got great faith and she worships her heart out.
• 36:15
  And then I stopped seeing her for a while, and I was like, oh, I wonder what happened?
• 36:19
  And what I found out was that her fam.
• 36:21
  Some of her family started going to church.
• 36:25
  Not necessarily close to here, a different part of the county.
• 36:28
  And because she wanted to worship with her family, she started going there.
• 36:32
  And she still comes here from time to time, but started going there.
• 36:35
  And I thought, oh, but that's, you know, for.
• 36:39
  I liked that reason.
• 36:39
  Yep.
• 36:40
  It wasn't about rejecting the church at all.
• 36:42
  In fact, she even mentioned that she missed being here.
• 36:45
  But yet she gets to go and worship with her family.
• 36:47
  How special with that.
• 36:48
  And I think that support in their journey is.
• 36:51
  Is good.
• 36:52
  So sometimes we don't even realize that the things that we're doing in the right ways.
• 36:56
  I think sometimes we have to.
• 36:57
  And then, of course, like, when you get trained up, God often sends you out.
• 37:02
  And we should be okay with that.
• 37:04
  Yeah.
• 37:04
  And it's.
• 37:05
  I tell you what, we.
• 37:05
  There was a time where.
• 37:07
  And I don't know if I've said it on the podcast before, I was working with this guy, and we did these men's ministries.
• 37:13
  Sure.
• 37:13
  And we starting to grow these big groups, and it was awesome.
• 37:17
  Don't get me wrong.
• 37:18
  I mean, we had tables and tables of men, and it felt great.
• 37:20
  It felt like we were really making an impact.
• 37:23
  And, like, you almost got that spiritual high five every time, you know?
• 37:27
  And then look what I've done.
• 37:29
  Then we did a study that kind of challenged everyone a little bit, which was great.
• 37:34
  And then we went to start a new study, and a lot of the guys had left, and I talked to some of the guys, and what I found out was this guy now has to go do a group
• 37:41
  with his wife, and this one wants to do a different study now.
• 37:46
  And this.
• 37:46
  You know.
• 37:47
  And so you birthed new study groups.
• 37:49
  Oh, absolutely.
• 37:50
  And I was like, this is great, actually.
• 37:52
  You know, because at first you're like, oh, our numbers are down.
• 37:54
  But then you're like, oh, wait, no, they're doing other things.
• 37:55
  This is great.
• 37:56
  And I remember the guy that I was doing it with was like, you know, kind of getting kind of down on it.
• 38:00
  Like, oh, man, we used to be this.
• 38:02
  And like, no, but we did what we were supposed to do.
• 38:04
  Mm.
• 38:05
  We were given some.
• 38:06
  We train them up, and now they're going out and doing more, you know, And I pointed out this guy's with his wife now, and this is.
• 38:11
  These are amazing things that are happening.
• 38:13
  We should be proud.
• 38:14
  We should be happy that this is happening.
• 38:16
  Let's ask God to send us some more to do this with.
• 38:18
  Yeah.
• 38:19
  You know, if this was.
• 38:19
  What.
• 38:20
  If this is the cycle, let's go.
• 38:22
  You know, I have no problem.
• 38:23
  And.
• 38:25
  And so that's what we should be like.
• 38:26
  We should.
• 38:27
  Once you get people in your church and sometimes we get excited when a new convert comes in, and we're like, yes.
• 38:31
  And you just want to pour into them, and you get excited, and they're part of the family, and it feels.
• 38:36
  Then God's like, all right, great.
• 38:37
  You did a great job.
• 38:38
  Now I got to send them over there because they need to be an integral parts what's going on over there.
• 38:41
  And it's hard for us.
• 38:42
  It's hard for them.
• 38:44
  Yep.
• 38:44
  And if you've ever been in that situation and I know you got a story, like, it's a difficult thing to understand sometimes.
• 38:49
  But our faith in God then has to take over above our understanding.
• 38:53
  Yes, sir.
• 38:54
  You know that somehow he can still use us whether we're here or there.
• 38:58
  Yep, that's true.
• 39:00
  So we had had a situ.
• 39:02
  Whoa.
• 39:03
  We had a.
• 39:03
  I know.
• 39:04
  Don't be beating up my head.
• 39:05
  We had had a situation where the culture at the church was getting toxic.
• 39:10
  We were having a hard time with the person who was in charge at the time.
• 39:13
  And my wife and I started praying, like, should we push through this?
• 39:15
  Should we push through this?
• 39:16
  And at some point, we both were like, I don't feel like God wants us here anymore.
• 39:20
  Like, I don't know what it is, but I feel like our time here is over.
• 39:23
  Right.
• 39:24
  And so we went to the pastor, we said, hey, we feel like our time here is over and God wants us to move.
• 39:29
  And he was not super happy, but he's like, I understand.
• 39:32
  You know, it's your journey.
• 39:33
  If God's talking to you, who am I going to argue with you?
• 39:35
  That kind of thing.
• 39:36
  So for a year and a half, we wound up going to another church.
• 39:40
  And then while we were at that church, we were struggling to get connected.
• 39:45
  The preaching was on was fire.
• 39:47
  The worship was absolute fire, but we just had a hard time getting connected.
• 39:50
  One day we come back for the.
• 39:52
  The other church's fourth big Fourth of July event.
• 39:55
  And I remember we stepped foot on the property, and all four of us looked at each other and said, so we're coming back, right?
• 40:00
  Like, it was just the feeling of, oh, my gosh, I just came home for the holidays, right?
• 40:04
  Why did I leave this?
• 40:05
  This is awesome.
• 40:05
  But we had not felt that until we stepped foot back on the property.
• 40:08
  Then I come to find out that the person that I had trouble with had.
• 40:13
  There was a whole thing that went down, and he wound up moving to a different state and starting a different church.
• 40:18
  So that was now gone.
• 40:19
  It just so happened that I was related to this person, so it would have made things.
• 40:25
  So the.
• 40:26
  At first we were like, well, this is weird.
• 40:27
  Why did.
• 40:28
  Why do we feel like God pulled us away?
• 40:29
  And I firmly believe that God said, I need you out of that situation because I need to save you from the muck you're about to step through.
• 40:36
  So let's put you over here for a little bit and keep you serving, and we're going to bring you back in a better.
• 40:41
  In a greater capacity.
• 40:43
  I think that can happen for sure.
• 40:44
  I think Mark had a similar.
• 40:47
  Similar thing that he had went through.
• 40:50
  I know some of you know Mark really well.
• 40:52
  And he's.
• 40:53
  He's been on the podcast a bunch, but he stepped away for a time because he needed to separate himself from.
• 41:04
  From the, Like, the being in charge and.
• 41:10
  And knowing what's right and that sort of thing, which is something that I recently did from just the praise team.
• 41:15
  But he.
• 41:16
  He had stepped away for, oh, man.
• 41:20
  Year, so two, and from here.
• 41:24
  And.
• 41:25
  And when he came back, he.
• 41:26
  He had the exact same feeling of, like, man, this is home.
• 41:30
  This is family.
• 41:31
  But he didn't regret, you know, stepping away and.
• 41:35
  And going where God had called him to go for that time.
• 41:40
  So I.
• 41:41
  I also want to say, like, sometimes a good church doesn't mean that it's the right church for you.
• 41:54
  Okay?
• 41:54
  Not every church is for everyone.
• 41:57
  Yes, I've had that, but in the opposite direction.
• 42:00
  So there was.
• 42:02
  I was part of a church up north that through some circumstances, one of our campuses had to close.
• 42:07
  And so a bunch of us kind of felt almost orphaned, and some people just went to other campuses.
• 42:13
  And it's funny, my family and I, we felt had a different feeling.
• 42:17
  It's like, I don't know if we're supposed to stay.
• 42:21
  I think we're supposed to do something different.
• 42:23
  And it was.
• 42:24
  It was really odd.
• 42:26
  So we did other things and did this, did that.
• 42:31
  We tried out a different church, and I.
• 42:34
  There were some things we liked about it, but just something wasn't quite right.
• 42:38
  And, you know, maybe this person liked this or that person liked that, but.
• 42:43
  And anyway, so after a few things happened, the different churches and different things, there was a period of life where we thought, oh, well, you know, that church, the other church, had been part of our lives for so
• 42:55
  long, we should just go back.
• 42:57
  And so we tried.
• 42:59
  We honestly tried.
• 43:01
  And it did not take long until we were like, we're not supposed to be here.
• 43:09
  And it was so wild because.
• 43:10
  And it wasn't like people being rude or anything like that.
• 43:13
  It was just a feeling of, we're not supposed to be here.
• 43:17
  There were so many things that had changed within us, and we didn't even realize it that.
• 43:22
  I mean, even sitting through the sermon, my wife looked at me and she's like, you're not.
• 43:27
  You're not supposed to be in here.
• 43:29
  You know, and I was having a hard time with it, but, you know, and then we ended up doing.
• 43:34
  Leaving there and doing some other things and then helping some other people out.
• 43:38
  And next thing you know, we're out of there completely, like, out of the state.
• 43:42
  I'm here now.
• 43:43
  You Know, like, but it was a wild time where like I remember before we had left, I thought this place is going to be where I'm at for so long.
• 43:49
  Sure.
• 43:50
  Who knows how long, maybe forever.
• 43:52
  And then through some circumstances that there's a lot more to it.
• 43:56
  But we just finally suddenly feel like I think we're supposed to do something different.
• 43:59
  And then when we did try to go back, like it was the same welcoming environment.
• 44:04
  It's still like it was very, we knew it all right.
• 44:07
  It was very familiar and uncomfortable to a degree.
• 44:10
  But we just weren't supposed to be there.
• 44:12
  Yep.
• 44:13
  And that was kind of difficult.
• 44:15
  Not every church is for everybody.
• 44:17
  Yeah.
• 44:17
  Even good churches.
• 44:18
  I mean it could be a solid Bible believing church with, with, I mean everybody's got their own problems but like without any major issues and it just not be the right church for you to be at.
• 44:30
  And that's okay.
• 44:31
  I think that here's a shout out to anybody who is in a church and has been in a church for a long time knowing, knowing Christ.
• 44:40
  If you're, if you meet somebody that is feeling like that, like this is a good church, but this isn't the right church for me.
• 44:48
  Help them find another.
• 44:49
  Yeah.
• 44:50
  It is on us who have been in church and, and doing the Christian walk for longer.
• 44:58
  It's on us to help those people to find another Bible believing church that does fit for them, that is the right place for them.
• 45:06
  Because that's, I mean that's, that's the very least we could do.
• 45:10
  But we also know what to look for.
• 45:12
  I mean I've seen people that all they did was criticize the church.
• 45:16
  Like they just, every time you talk to them, all they did want to do is well, this and this and this to the point where one day I just look at them, I said, I don't think you need
• 45:25
  to be there anymore.
• 45:26
  Right.
• 45:27
  I don't think church for you.
• 45:28
  Well, I mean it's just like you're, this isn't helping you.
• 45:31
  This is.
• 45:31
  All you're doing is negativity.
• 45:33
  Yep.
• 45:33
  Also don't criticize the church if you're not willing to be a part of the solution.
• 45:38
  Oh yeah.
• 45:38
  Like seriously, like, and, and if you've got a complaint.
• 45:42
  Sweet.
• 45:43
  Propose a solution.
• 45:44
  Propose a solution along with it.
• 45:46
  Or be a willing participant.
• 45:49
  Participant in that.
• 45:50
  Finding the solution.
• 45:52
  Because obviously sometimes we can see a problem or see something that doesn't look right and, and we don't know a solution.
• 46:01
  But don't just be like you need to fix this or this is A problem like, don't be like that because that's not helpful.
• 46:09
  It's, it's not helpful for anyone.
• 46:11
  And it makes those of us who are doing church leadership go, uh huh.
• 46:17
  And then walk on because that just is a part of it.
• 46:20
  Yep.
• 46:21
  I think, I think we should.
• 46:23
  Something that you should do if you're been a part of a church for a long period of time is look at those who are coming to the church for the first time.
• 46:33
  Look, especially people who are coming in and coming to faith.
• 46:37
  I want you to look at them and I want you to look at yourself and ask, watch their growth and wonder how much you've been growing and see if you've become complacent.
• 46:49
  And if you have, there's something needs to change and it might even need to be the church.
• 46:54
  And that's a scary thing to think about because we love holding on to people too much.
• 47:00
  But if you're going to a church and you're not going, but you go there because you've always gone there, or maybe you've had family go in there, you've almost inherited this church.
• 47:09
  If you're going to a church because, well, you know, well, it's just.
• 47:13
  This is what I know, this is what I like.
• 47:16
  This is comfortable again, once again, okay, you might not be going for the right reasons.
• 47:21
  This is a place we're supposed to be encountering Jesus and being challenged in our faith.
• 47:25
  Are you going in there?
• 47:26
  Are you finding ways to deepen your faith?
• 47:28
  Because listen, even and people, I hear this complaint all the time.
• 47:32
  All the time.
• 47:32
  Well, you know, the preaching is either too hard for new people or too soft for the veteran Christians.
• 47:38
  It's like, okay, most churches, most, most.
• 47:42
  Even if they have something that's a little more, we'll call it seeker friendly in their messages.
• 47:47
  They have plenty of programs and resources to help you go deeper in your faith.
• 47:51
  And maybe your challenge is that you need to group some people together and you need to lead them deeper, which will actually lead you deeper in your faith.
• 47:59
  There's no such thing as complacency.
• 48:02
  You need to keep going.
• 48:03
  If you're not working on your faith, you're in danger of starting to fall out of your faith.
• 48:06
  And that's a dangerous place to be.
• 48:08
  You want to be growing.
• 48:09
  We want to be going towards Jesus.
• 48:11
  Yeah, so I gave, I gave.
• 48:13
  I have a really close friend of mine.
• 48:15
  His name is Luke.
• 48:15
  So shout out to Luke if you're watching this.
• 48:18
  He, he's wild.
• 48:19
  His, he actually moved to Turkey.
• 48:21
  I Think it was for like 13 years.
• 48:23
  He lived in Turkey with a family of five.
• 48:25
  Must have been a big Turkey.
• 48:27
  Yeah, he's moved here.
• 48:29
  I think it was like something like 14 years.
• 48:30
  And he was helping to translate the Bible into Turkish.
• 48:33
  That was his job over there.
• 48:35
  So.
• 48:35
  But he, like, I kept seeing videos from where he's climbing mountains and he has all these really cool experiences.
• 48:40
  I'm like, I watched a movie about a mountain climbing once, but there was a period before that ever happened.
• 48:46
  He wound up going to a, he was going to a Bible college, and he had been there for six months.
• 48:50
  And I said, have you found a good church yet?
• 48:52
  He goes, dude, I've been to all of them and I can't find any good churches.
• 48:55
  I'm like, around a Bible college.
• 48:57
  That seems weird.
• 48:58
  So then I stopped for a second.
• 49:00
  I said, okay.
• 49:01
  I said, take a different approach.
• 49:03
  Because kind of what you said, things change, right?
• 49:05
  You don't like the worship.
• 49:06
  The worship is probably going to change within a couple of years because that's just what happens.
• 49:10
  The worship leader moves on or they bring in a different style or whatever.
• 49:13
  I've even seen pastors change, associate pastors change, things like that.
• 49:17
  So I said, I said, instead of looking for the thing that had the perfect worship and the perfect pastor and all that stuff, I said, go on and find the church that you say.
• 49:25
  I agree with your vision.
• 49:27
  Your vision is to plant churches.
• 49:30
  I would love to plant churches.
• 49:31
  Just walk in and say, I want to plant churches too.
• 49:34
  How can I help?
• 49:34
  So align with a vision.
• 49:37
  The rest will just take care of itself.
• 49:38
  That was my advice back, you know, back in 2006 or something.
• 49:44
  So what's your opinion on that stance?
• 49:47
  Because I've often questioned, like, is that the right approach to take?
• 49:50
  I love that approach.
• 49:51
  Okay, I, absolutely.
• 49:52
  Actually, I, that's the same approach I tell people when it comes to learning how to be generous and, and how to actually tithe and, and be more generous with their money, not to mention their other, their time and
• 50:03
  their talent.
• 50:04
  Because you're looking for a church, like I said much earlier, you're looking for somewhere where you can see God's moving.
• 50:10
  And so if you're like, hey, should I give to this ministry?
• 50:12
  What are they.
• 50:13
  Is you, can you see that God is.
• 50:15
  This is a fruitful ministry.
• 50:17
  You know, when I was up north, I, I, we were big into.
• 50:20
  One of the things we were big into was the FCA up there.
• 50:23
  Because, man, that, that in our county that we were at, when I lived up north, that FCA program was on fire and they were doing so much and we just.
• 50:32
  The.
• 50:33
  I wasn't part of being in that ministry, but I could help support that ministry from that point.
• 50:39
  And I loved being able to do that so that they could keep being the hands and feet they were being and making the difference that they were making.
• 50:45
  In the same way, if you find a church that's doing it, dude, even if you don't know how else you can do it by helping them on that mission.
• 50:53
  If it's.
• 50:53
  Whether it's your time, whether you give it to be like, hey, can I hold a door?
• 50:56
  Hey, can I make some coffee?
• 50:58
  Whether it's your talent, hey, you need that wall painted.
• 51:01
  I can do that.
• 51:02
  I'm really great at that.
• 51:03
  You need some things cleaned up, man.
• 51:05
  I'm the best cleaner like I could.
• 51:07
  Whatever it is.
• 51:08
  Or you're giving up your treasure, you're going, you know what?
• 51:10
  I may not be able to do those other things, but I've got a little extra and I can give it to you.
• 51:13
  Or you know what?
• 51:14
  I really need to discipline myself.
• 51:16
  God's been putting it on my heart and I pray.
• 51:18
  This is a controversial subject.
• 51:20
  I get it.
• 51:22
  No matter where you decide to do this, hear me, let God challenge you in your money.
• 51:30
  Okay?
• 51:30
  There.
• 51:31
  You should be challenged in your money.
• 51:32
  He actually promises us that we, we should allow him because he.
• 51:36
  There's rewarding.
• 51:37
  He will make sure that you're taken care of.
• 51:39
  Find a place to start finding a, a giving a tithing of some sign where you.
• 51:45
  You go, okay, God, this sounds crazy because this is usually my money, but.
• 51:50
  Or I think of it as my money.
• 51:51
  But if you say that this is your money and I should give you that, then I'm going to give that.
• 51:56
  And if you want to give it to your church, great, you're gonna.
• 51:59
  Especially if you, if you think God is working in church, give to that church.
• 52:02
  If you see that ministry over there, they're making a difference.
• 52:05
  They're getting kids off the streets or they're helping the homeless find homes and jobs.
• 52:09
  Whatever it is that if you see God working, support them in your like, and you can do it.
• 52:14
  It doesn't have to be money, time, time, time, talent or treasure.
• 52:18
  Give it to them.
• 52:18
  It's so important.
• 52:19
  But that's the same thing.
• 52:20
  So when we're looking, when we're looking for churches, we're looking for the same reason as what, why we're given to churches.
• 52:25
  And that's the giving of ourselves, right?
• 52:26
  We can be part of what they're doing.
• 52:28
  You never know just by being part of that congregation, how you just being in a seat could one day make a difference where someone looks over and sees you.
• 52:36
  Maybe someone recognizes you.
• 52:38
  They saw you in the grocery store.
• 52:39
  Maybe you.
• 52:40
  You happen to just say hi to someone on a day they really needed someone to say hi to them.
• 52:43
  That's it.
• 52:43
  Or.
• 52:44
  Or whatever it may be, you never know how God can use you.
• 52:47
  But what you got to do, and I've said it before, is you got to be faithful, available, and teachable.
• 52:51
  That's right.
• 52:52
  You got to be a fat Christian.
• 52:53
  You gotta be faithful, available, and teachable.
• 52:55
  You gotta be faithful to keep going and showing up.
• 52:57
  Available for him to use at any time, and teachable so that he's constantly making you better and equipping you with more stuff so that when those times come, you are the better tool for him to use to continue
• 53:07
  his purposes and glorify his name in his kingdom.
• 53:09
  It's raining.
• 53:10
  Yeah, I'm hearing it rain.
• 53:11
  And so if you found a church that you can do that in, perfect.
• 53:15
  Also, when you're.
• 53:16
  When you're looking for a church or when you're in a church, don't be a consumer, be a contributor.
• 53:24
  Absolutely.
• 53:25
  Receive.
• 53:25
  Right.
• 53:26
  Right.
• 53:27
  But when you're.
• 53:29
  When you're a consumer, you're just taking things in.
• 53:33
  Yep.
• 53:33
  When you're a contributor, you have to take things in in order to give things out.
• 53:37
  This is true.
• 53:38
  Whenever.
• 53:39
  Think.
• 53:39
  Think of.
• 53:39
  Think of any business ever.
• 53:41
  Right.
• 53:42
  You have to purchase things in order to make the things that you're then giving back to the community or selling back to the community.
• 53:49
  Like, if you're just buying things.
• 53:54
  Look at all these things I have.
• 53:55
  You know what I mean?
• 53:56
  Like, I'm just saying, like, you need to be a contributor as well.
• 54:00
  One might even say an ambassador, which is our highest tier of our podcast here on page.
• 54:06
  Our patreon for our podcast.
• 54:08
  Right.
• 54:09
  You're an ambassador of truth.
• 54:11
  But that is like, that's.
• 54:12
  That's not.
• 54:13
  That's not just an owner.
• 54:15
  Yeah.
• 54:15
  That is someone who.
• 54:16
  Who you're helping in the hospital.
• 54:18
  You say, I understand the mission, and I'm here to tell everyone else the mission as well, you know?
• 54:27
  Yep.
• 54:28
  So you think about those.
• 54:29
  Think about those, like, apocalyptic movies where, like, the guy has, like, a basement, what you call it fortress, that's stocked with food for decades, needs.
• 54:38
  Right.
• 54:39
  And then, like, the apocalypse happens, and he slams the door and locks and says, nobody's coming in.
• 54:43
  Like, you have all These resources you've consumed or gotten, and you're gonna refuse to help anybody else.
• 54:49
  You know, it's ridiculous.
• 54:51
  Yeah, I, I, I do.
• 54:52
  I like that, you know, because I, I like to call them ticket punchers because I always have this mentality and I have this image in my head of these people that come in and it's almost like they clocked
• 55:01
  in.
• 55:01
  Like, okay, I'm, I took my time.
• 55:03
  Punch my ticket.
• 55:04
  I'll just go sit.
• 55:06
  All right, cool.
• 55:06
  And then they leave.
• 55:07
  And it's crazy because when I was, the first time I was here for.
• 55:10
  The full hour, I came.
• 55:12
  Well, it's funny because you, when I was with this church up north, we did a lot of, we did mobile church, so we borrowed, we kind of borrowed a facility or we came alongside us, the facility.
• 55:23
  And so on Sundays, we had to set up church.
• 55:25
  Like, we'd have trailers and boxes and stuff, so we'd pull all this stuff out and get it all set up.
• 55:30
  And then at the end of church, of course, we have to set it up, it all back down and put it all away.
• 55:34
  And so we did that and we had amazing, amazing volunteers.
• 55:40
  Probably some of the best volunteers I've.
• 55:42
  Worked with shout out to those volunteers.
• 55:44
  They were so good.
• 55:45
  And some of you, you know who you are.
• 55:47
  But they were so awesome.
• 55:48
  And we made church work.
• 55:50
  But it was so wild to see the people come in and the, the difference.
• 55:55
  Like, you had these people that were trying to make this happen.
• 55:57
  They were so part of the hands and the feet of the church that quite literally the church didn't happen unless they were in it.
• 56:04
  Not like in a way that it was like, too prideful, but, like, they just wanted to help it happen.
• 56:09
  And then you have people that literally would just come in, get fed, walk out.
• 56:12
  Yeah.
• 56:13
  Barely sometimes even be able to talk, leave trash on this, like, and it's like, oh.
• 56:17
  As if to say.
• 56:18
  And it was so weird because you had people that were just serving their hearts out, and then you had people going, oh, thanks for doing this for me.
• 56:24
  I was like, yeah, Ah, you're coming to church for the wrong reason.
• 56:27
  This isn't supposed to be for you.
• 56:29
  This is supposed to be for him, you know, and so I was.
• 56:33
  So it drove me a little nuts.
• 56:35
  I learned to love them in a, in, in my own way.
• 56:38
  There was a period of time where I was like, I wish they just got it.
• 56:41
  But now I'm just like, how can I get reach them?
• 56:44
  How can I show them somehow?
• 56:46
  You know, when we were in topeka our pastor would actively tell people, if you just want to sit in a pew and give your tithe, I've got a list of churches down the street you can go to.
• 57:00
  Like, we.
• 57:01
  We don't do that here.
• 57:02
  Like, we.
• 57:03
  We are active in.
• 57:05
  In helping.
• 57:06
  Helping things.
• 57:08
  At least.
• 57:08
  At least they're tithing.
• 57:09
  He wasn't kidding.
• 57:10
  He had a list of churches that you'd be like, you can go here.
• 57:14
  One of them called him and said, hey, this is what this person said.
• 57:18
  Is that what you're telling people?
• 57:20
  Yes, that's exactly what I told them.
• 57:22
  You know, like, that's wild.
• 57:23
  You can take your tithe there.
• 57:25
  And I had so many people, they wouldn't do anything.
• 57:27
  They didn't give.
• 57:28
  They didn't tithe.
• 57:29
  They didn't do anything.
• 57:30
  They just came in, watch the message, and then left.
• 57:33
  Yep.
• 57:34
  And.
• 57:34
  And, you know, maybe they'd sing songs, maybe they didn't.
• 57:37
  And I'm like, man, like, is this.
• 57:39
  Like, is this a penalty for you?
• 57:41
  Like, what.
• 57:41
  What is this?
• 57:42
  Like, do you feel like by doing this, somehow you're okay?
• 57:45
  Like, where's your faith at?
• 57:46
  Like, are you.
• 57:47
  Are you genuinely being part of this consumer Christianity?
• 57:52
  Very, very tricky thing.
• 57:54
  That's not what.
• 57:54
  That's not what a church is supposed to be.
• 57:57
  It's not.
• 57:57
  It's not just someplace where they were supposed to be the servants, not just being served.
• 58:03
  Christ came to serve, not be served.
• 58:06
  And we're supposed to be little Christs, therefore we're supposed to be serving.
• 58:10
  There you go.
• 58:10
  That's a final thoughts.
• 58:11
  I was gonna say, like, I had one other.
• 58:14
  You can.
• 58:15
  I mean, you can rabbit trail if.
• 58:16
  You need to, to a degree.
• 58:18
  My final thought is.
• 58:19
  One thing that I taught on not too long ago was when we.
• 58:22
  We talk about the concept of this is my home church, have you.
• 58:26
  Our pastor tells a story of when he was first called to be a missionary.
• 58:29
  They had literally.
• 58:30
  They had started the church in Los Angeles, and they had literally just bought their dream house.
• 58:35
  He goes literally start to finish the.
• 58:37
  From the front door to the back door, everything was perfect.
• 58:40
  Square footage, the kitchen, everything.
• 58:42
  He goes, two months later, I'm sitting in church and they're talking about going on, you know, going wherever God wants you to go.
• 58:47
  And I was like, God, wherever you want me to go, I'm.
• 58:49
  I'm on board.
• 58:50
  That kind of stuff.
• 58:50
  And he said that day, the pastor pulls him into his office, said, I feel like you should go to Fiji.
• 58:54
  And he's like, I'm not going to Fiji.
• 58:56
  I just bought my dream house.
• 58:57
  What are you talking about?
• 58:58
  Right?
• 58:59
  So he says he gets to the door, and as his hand touches the door, he feels God prompts him, saying, I thought you said you'd go wherever you want me.
• 59:05
  Where I wanted you to go, Right?
• 59:06
  So he stops, and he calls his wife, and he's.
• 59:09
  And he said when she picked up, she said, honey, I don't know what's going on, but I.
• 59:12
  I keep hearing the word Fiji.
• 59:14
  What's going on?
• 59:15
  Right?
• 59:16
  And so he's like, we're going to Fiji.
• 59:18
  And they sold their dream house and they moved.
• 59:20
  So my question would be, when we think of the concept of a home church, do we as Christians tend to find ourselves getting so comfortable that there's no way we could possibly uproot and leave?
• 59:31
  If God said, I need you to go to Uzbekistan, yeah.
• 59:34
  In fact, I would say at a lot of times, when we're so comfortable somewhere that we would never leave on our own, God allows turmoil to happen.
• 59:46
  Oh, yeah.
• 59:47
  He did that for me.
• 59:48
  Especially with a couple jobs.
• 59:50
  Yeah, man.
• 59:51
  One job I worked at, he let it get real bad until I was like, all right, I'm out.
• 59:56
  And then he's like, cool, I got you.
• 59:57
  I was like, that's all he wants.
• 1:00:00
  You could have just said it.
• 1:00:01
  He's like, I did.
• 1:00:02
  Yeah.
• 1:00:02
  I said it so many times.
• 1:00:03
  I tried to send this guy.
• 1:00:05
  I tried to send this, and then you weren't listening, so I had to make it like this.
• 1:00:09
  I had John punch you in the face.
• 1:00:10
  But in all seriousness, guys, if you're going through some stuff and you feel like God's been calling you elsewhere, but you're just like, I like it here, or just be honest with yourself about it.
• 1:00:22
  But sometimes you're going through stuff because otherwise you would never leave a situation.
• 1:00:29
  Like, I.
• 1:00:31
  I get that.
• 1:00:32
  I.
• 1:00:33
  I understand that, too.
• 1:00:34
  Like, I had to go through some stuff, and my wife actually had to be like, you should do this in order for me to.
• 1:00:44
  To wake up to the fact that I wasn't supposed to be at a job that I had.
• 1:00:48
  Like, just.
• 1:00:50
  That's the same thing with churches.
• 1:00:52
  Sometimes everything could be so good that you're just not.
• 1:00:56
  Not willing to do something different.
• 1:00:58
  So good people get comfortable.
• 1:01:00
  Yeah.
• 1:01:00
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:02
  Final thoughts?
• 1:01:07
  My final thoughts.
• 1:01:08
  Sure.
• 1:01:10
  He doesn't get a second set of five.
• 1:01:12
  Yeah, you don't get a second one.
• 1:01:13
  This is my turn, I guess.
• 1:01:16
  My talk about his.
• 1:01:17
  My final time, My final thoughts.
• 1:01:21
  I would say, look, if you found a church where you are actively being fed plug.
• 1:01:28
  And you're plugged in.
• 1:01:29
  And you're feeding others.
• 1:01:31
  You're.
• 1:01:31
  You're feeding others as well.
• 1:01:32
  And you're.
• 1:01:32
  And you're finding a place to be part of that mission.
• 1:01:35
  Man, you just keep rocking.
• 1:01:37
  But if you haven't found that place, that maybe you need to ask, number one, what is keeping me from doing that here?
• 1:01:46
  Or if you.
• 1:01:48
  Because that's a hard thing.
• 1:01:50
  Are you.
• 1:01:51
  Are you just not doing it?
• 1:01:54
  Because.
• 1:01:54
  And you're just not seeing the.
• 1:01:56
  What you need to see so that you are doing it.
• 1:01:58
  Like, you need to be part of a mission.
• 1:02:00
  So if you're not supposed to be in that mission, find a place to be part of mission.
• 1:02:03
  But sometimes you need to ask yourself, what could I be doing to be part of this mission?
• 1:02:08
  Allow yourself to be challenged by that.
• 1:02:10
  Whether it's something simple, like I said, like holding a door.
• 1:02:13
  And don't discount holding a door.
• 1:02:16
  Amen.
• 1:02:16
  It is an integral and important part of any gathering.
• 1:02:20
  I guarantee you.
• 1:02:22
  It is so important.
• 1:02:23
  Yep.
• 1:02:23
  But.
• 1:02:25
  Or it could be something more, but you need to challenge yourself to figure out where it is that you fit in.
• 1:02:30
  That's not just coming in, sitting in a seat, and leaving.
• 1:02:33
  It's good.
• 1:02:34
  Yep.
• 1:02:35
  I once preached a sermon called the guy with the truck.
• 1:02:38
  And the concept being like, we all don't want to be the guy with the truck because the guy with the truck gets called to move the furniture.
• 1:02:43
  Right.
• 1:02:44
  And like, oh, my gosh, now I have to help that person, too.
• 1:02:46
  I'm like, shift your perspective.
• 1:02:47
  Think about how much time you get to spend with that person in a dedicated tight space.
• 1:02:53
  Right.
• 1:02:53
  Which can be scary for some people, but if I get a chance to sit with you and it's like, well, I'm gonna pick your brain.
• 1:02:59
  It's like, I'm pick your brain.
• 1:03:00
  I'm gonna feed something into you, and you get to be a blessing to all of these people just because you own a truck.
• 1:03:05
  Yeah, I like that.
• 1:03:06
  Because sometimes we're like, God, I just need a truck.
• 1:03:08
  And he's like, all right, I'll give.
• 1:03:13
  You a truck and everything that comes with it.
• 1:03:14
  I can use the truck.
• 1:03:15
  And we're like, yeah, I can't wait to use the truck.
• 1:03:17
  He's like, no, no, no, you will, but I'm going to use the truck.
• 1:03:22
  I'm just thankful that he gives me people in my life that knows how to do the things with the truck.
• 1:03:29
  Right.
• 1:03:30
  I know how to drive the truck.
• 1:03:31
  I have the truck.
• 1:03:32
  I'm willing to Use the truck.
• 1:03:35
  But when it comes to moving things, it's like, I'm willing.
• 1:03:40
  Not as able as you think, but I'm willing.
• 1:03:42
  Right.
• 1:03:43
  So he's surrounded me with guys that are like, here you go.
• 1:03:47
  Which is a great analogy to wrap up with because, like, we don't all know everything.
• 1:03:53
  And.
• 1:03:53
  And God provides those in.
• 1:03:56
  In.
• 1:03:57
  In your surrounding.
• 1:03:59
  Right.
• 1:04:00
  To complement your strengths, because in your weakness, he is made strong.
• 1:04:06
  And he uses all of us to.
• 1:04:08
  To work together.
• 1:04:10
  But you won't find that until you go to a church.
• 1:04:12
  Yeah, you can't do that.
• 1:04:14
  Lone wolf.
• 1:04:15
  That does not work.
• 1:04:16
  No.
• 1:04:17
  So a lone wolf of a truck is just a sad human being.
• 1:04:22
  So I guess we're gonna pull the winner next week.
• 1:04:27
  Next.
• 1:04:27
  Next week, we're gonna pull the winner.
• 1:04:28
  Next week.
• 1:04:30
  We'll be pulling that winner.
• 1:04:32
  So stay tuned for that.
• 1:04:35
  I will have everything ready to go on the table to show you what you're winning, which will be exciting.
• 1:04:43
  And.
• 1:04:44
  And we will get that kicked off.
• 1:04:45
  Also, if you haven't followed us or subscribed, please do that.
• 1:04:50
  Like, comment.
• 1:04:52
  Tell us what we're doing right.
• 1:04:53
  Tell us what we're doing wrong.
• 1:04:54
  Tell us what you want to hear about.
• 1:04:56
  And also Patreon.
• 1:04:58
  Follow us on Patreon.
• 1:04:59
  Join us on Patreon.
• 1:05:01
  You can be a free subscriber.
• 1:05:02
  Yeah, we love new subscribers.
• 1:05:04
  Shout out to Tim.
• 1:05:05
  He's a new subscriber on the YouTubes.
• 1:05:08
  Yep.
• 1:05:09
  So wheat on.
• 1:05:10
  We love new.
• 1:05:11
  But we.
• 1:05:11
  We love new subscribers.
• 1:05:12
  But, yeah, we all share it.
• 1:05:13
  Don't forget to share this with people that you.
• 1:05:15
  I mean, if you were impacted by it, if.
• 1:05:18
  Even if.
• 1:05:18
  If it felt like, oh, man, there was something good there.
• 1:05:21
  Yeah.
• 1:05:22
  Share this on.
• 1:05:22
  And if you felt like there's something you want to argue about, comment.
• 1:05:26
  Because Derek loves arguing with people.
• 1:05:28
  I do so much.
• 1:05:29
  I love to argue.
• 1:05:30
  So make sure you put that in the comments.
• 1:05:32
  I promise I will do it.
• 1:05:33
  So tell us what we're doing right and what you love.
• 1:05:35
  We love hearing that, too.
• 1:05:36
  Too.
• 1:05:36
  Yep.
• 1:05:37
  Cool.
• 1:05:37
  Yeah, awesome.
• 1:05:39
  It's all.
• 1:05:40
  It's all about God.
• 1:05:41
  It's all about God.
• 1:05:42
  And it's all thanks to you guys.
• 1:05:44
  So we love you.
• 1:05:47
  We thank you.
• 1:05:48
  God bless.
• 1:06:01
  Ram.
• 1:06:31
  Truth.
• 1:06:31
  In the battle light in the loss, what we see, clarity and chaos.