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Bryan Kohberger Escapes Trial Day: WHY? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece.
0:12
Speaker 2: In the last hours.
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Speaker 3: We are learning more and more about the Brian Coburger prosecution.
0:19
Speaker 3: As all of you legal eagles know now, Coburger will
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Speaker 3: face trial and the murders of four beautiful University Idaho students.
0:29
Speaker 3: I had the opportunity to meet alone with the mom
0:36
Speaker 3: of Ethan Chapin. Her resiliency is amazing after what all
0:44
Speaker 3: she and the other victims families have been through, and
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Speaker 3: on the footsteps of that meeting that I will never forget.
0:58
Speaker 3: We are learning more and more about the crime scene,
1:03
Speaker 3: and I only wonder if all the parents are privy
1:07
Speaker 3: to very very disturbing information that we are learning. For instance,
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Speaker 3: allegations that one of the victims was essentially trapped and
1:21
Speaker 3: couldn't get away that many believe Maddie Madison Mogan was
1:28
Speaker 3: the intended victim. Why this as the court is actually
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Speaker 3: considering a closed courtroom for various hearings where no one
1:40
Speaker 3: can be present, which is contrary to everything that the
1:45
Speaker 3: justice system stands for open courtrooms. That there may very
1:48
Speaker 3: well not be cameras in the courtroom so we can't
1:51
Speaker 3: see what's happening as the case unfolds. And of course,
1:55
Speaker 3: as you know, the defense has withdrawn the demand for
1:58
Speaker 3: speedy trial. This case on hold for indefinitely as the
2:03
Speaker 3: question looms, is Brian Coburger actually an incel and involuntary
2:11
Speaker 3: celibate leading to intense hatred of women? I mean, see Grace,
2:16
Speaker 3: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
2:18
Speaker 3: here at Fox Nation. In series XEM one eleven, take
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Speaker 3: a listen to Christy and Steve Gonsalvus on forty eight hours.
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Speaker 4: The bed was up against the wall, headboard was touching
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Speaker 4: the wall, and the left side of the bed was
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Speaker 4: touching the wall. And we believe that Maddy was on
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Speaker 4: the outside and Keithley was on the inside.
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Speaker 5: According to coroner Mabbitt, the killer's first victim was Mattie,
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Speaker 5: says Steve, and then from Mattie he moved on.
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Speaker 6: To your daughter.
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Speaker 5: You believe she had awakened at that point.
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Speaker 7: Yes, yeah, there's evidence a show that she awake and
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Speaker 7: didn't try to get out.
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Speaker 6: Of that situation.
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Speaker 4: The way the bed was set up is a I
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Speaker 4: was trapped.
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Speaker 8: She was trapped.
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Speaker 1: Oh my stars.
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Speaker 3: When I'm hearing this, I'm just imagining based on what
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Speaker 3: the gonsovices are saying and they are privy to information
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Speaker 3: to which we don't have access. They believe their daughter
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Speaker 3: was trapped, that Coburger did not anticipate Maddie Mogan having
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Speaker 3: anyone else in the room. Is that what they're saying?
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Speaker 3: With me an all star panel to make sense of
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Speaker 3: what we are learning? First of all, to Rachel Silkey,
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Speaker 3: breaking news reporter for the Washington Examiner. Rachel, thank you
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Speaker 3: for being with us. What is he saying? What is
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Speaker 3: mister Gonsovist saying?
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Speaker 9: Well, he's thinking that there is evidence that maybe his
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Speaker 9: daughter's best friend was the target, and that his daughter
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Speaker 9: just was an unfortunate victim of a horrible crime, and
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Speaker 9: that it's possible that he only wanted to kill one person,
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Speaker 9: and just the way events unfolded, he ended.
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Speaker 2: Up killing for I'm not sure that.
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Speaker 3: I could buy into his theory that one of the
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Speaker 3: girls was the intended victim and that finding two girls
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Speaker 3: in one room made him think he had to kill
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Speaker 3: the other person, which would have been killing. But then
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Speaker 3: why go on to other rooms and kill more people?
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Speaker 2: With me? As I said, an All Star panel right now.
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Speaker 3: To Professor Forensics Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath
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Speaker 3: My feet on Amazon and starting a hit series Body
4:34
Speaker 3: Bags with Joe Scott Morgan.
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Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan joining us. Joe Scott explained to me.
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Speaker 3: The significance of the furniture possibly being moved one bed
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Speaker 3: pushed away. The bed was set up according to mister
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Speaker 3: consolvice trapping his daughter.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, the bed is essentially cornered, if you will, so
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Speaker 6: you've got one. If you imagine the right, if you're
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Speaker 6: laying on the bed, right over your right shoulder, that
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Speaker 6: corner of the bed would be pressed against the wall.
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Speaker 2: Right, Say that again very slowly so we can all envision.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, sure, sure, no problem. So if you're laying in
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Speaker 6: your own bed at home, just imagine you're laying in
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Speaker 6: your bed and if you imagine over your right shoulder,
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Speaker 6: the head of the bed is cornered in the right
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Speaker 6: corner of the room. Okay. That what happens is that
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Speaker 6: creates a barrier where you have a wall immediate to
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Speaker 6: your right. Then you'll have the wall behind your head.
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Speaker 6: So there's only two ways to actually escape out of
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Speaker 6: that bed. Either you go over the foot of the bed,
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Speaker 6: which I believe is adjacent to the doorway, or or
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Speaker 6: you go off of the left side of the bed.
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Speaker 6: And if there is unfortunately in this case, what they
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Speaker 6: are saying, at least allegedly is that you have one
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Speaker 6: victim that is to cease to the left or the
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Speaker 6: outer aspect of the bed.
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Speaker 10: Uh.
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Speaker 6: And if you have some savage that is on top
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Speaker 6: of you in this environment, he's pressing you down. He
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Speaker 6: may be leaning over the body of an individual that's
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Speaker 6: already deceased, and he's attacking you. There's no where to go, Nancy.
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Speaker 11: Uh.
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Speaker 6: These are they're they're not big, robust, muscular women. These
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Speaker 6: are you know, kind of diminutive ladies that are in
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Speaker 6: this bed. The attacker is probably rather large. Uh. And
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Speaker 6: he's wielding a knife. And just imagine the thing that's
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Speaker 6: always come to mind with me with this knife attack
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Speaker 6: is almost like a classic sewing machine where the needle
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Speaker 6: goes up and down, up and down. And this this
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Speaker 6: is what you have where you have this attack that's
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Speaker 6: going on simultaneously between the two individuals. You're gonna have
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Speaker 6: somebody in this particular case, well refer who referred to
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Speaker 6: as Kayley, She's gonna have an awareness that she's being attacked. Nancy.
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Speaker 6: Her paint centers are firing. She's trying to get away. Maybe,
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Speaker 6: and this is only a maybe, she has this awareness
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Speaker 6: that evidence is is perhaps that she's raising her arms
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Speaker 6: up to try to get away, to find him off,
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Speaker 6: and I would imagine she has some pretty ghastly defensive angers.
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Speaker 3: I want to hear that sound again, if you don't mind, Jackie.
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Speaker 3: This is mister and missus Goldsalves. This is of course
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Speaker 3: Keale Gondsoalve is his parents speaking to forty eight hours
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Speaker 3: and I want to take in everything they're saying.
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Speaker 4: Listen, the bed was up against the wall, edboard was
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Speaker 4: touching the wall, and the left side of the bed
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Speaker 4: was touching the wall. And we believe that Maddie was
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Speaker 4: on the outside and Kelley was on the inside.
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Speaker 5: According to Corener Mabbitt, the killer's first victim was Mattie,
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Speaker 5: says Steve, and then from Mattie he moved on.
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Speaker 6: To your daughter.
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Speaker 5: You believe she had awakened at that point, yes.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, there's evidence to show that she awake and didn't
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Speaker 7: try to get out.
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Speaker 6: Of that situation.
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Speaker 4: The way the bed was set up is what I
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Speaker 4: was trapped.
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Speaker 2: She was trapped.
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Speaker 3: Maddie is being identified by Corner Mabbott as the first victim.
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Speaker 3: When there are multiple stabbings of multiple victims, it's very
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Speaker 3: hard to determine based on the injuries to the bodies alone,
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Speaker 3: who's the first victim chronologically With me Cheryl McCollum joining us,
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Speaker 3: founder director of the Cold Case Research Institute, you can
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Speaker 3: find her at coldcasecrimes dot org. For expert and host
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Speaker 3: of a new hit series, Zone seven podcast, Cheryl, there
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Speaker 3: are extrinsic ways, not just the injuries to the body,
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Speaker 3: not just those injuries themselves, to determine his common sensical
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Speaker 3: who was the first victim?
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Speaker 2: Explained well, Number.
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Speaker 12: One, it was her bedroom that he enterchurched.
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Speaker 3: That's assuming he knew and had identified who would be
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Speaker 3: his first victim and knew which one was their bedroom.
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Speaker 12: Correct. But again, when you've got somebody that enters on
9:01
Speaker 12: the second floor and goes to the third floor first,
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Speaker 12: that was his target. He went where he wanted to
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Speaker 12: go first for a reason, that's the order he chose.
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Speaker 12: The other thing is she's probably not going to have
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Speaker 12: any defensive wounds because she was asleep, whereas you know
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Speaker 12: Kaylee would probably have some because she did wake up.
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Speaker 12: But there's another factor not just the wall where the
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Speaker 12: bed was up against the wall. But keep in mind
9:29
Speaker 12: she was under covers, so if he put his knees
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Speaker 12: on that bed at all, those covers also helped trap her.
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Speaker 12: So there would be injuries to the sheets, to the comforter,
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Speaker 12: to her you know, pajamas in some way. So those
9:45
Speaker 12: are the kind of things we're looking for that he
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Speaker 12: enters the home on the second floor, goes up the stairs.
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Speaker 12: There's no reason if he's just entering that house to
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Speaker 12: kill people, then he would go up those stairs. That
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Speaker 12: to me is for a target. He enters her room first,
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Speaker 12: that's the target.
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Speaker 1: Prime stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 3: To you, Joe Scott Morgan, I agree with everything Cheryl
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Speaker 3: McCollum has just said. The medical examiner in the corner
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Speaker 3: has stated to him is clear Mattie was the first victim.
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Speaker 3: I'm thinking in addition to what Cheryl said, that we
10:37
Speaker 3: see other clues such as, let's hypothesize if Mattie was
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Speaker 3: the first victim, that would make Kelly Glensavas the second victim.
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Speaker 3: They were in the same bed together, their DNA could
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Speaker 3: be on the knife as it stabbed the other victims,
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Speaker 3: so that would indicate they were stabbed first, their DNA
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Speaker 3: on that knife would absolutely be transferred to victims three
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Speaker 3: and four, and of course that's Xana Crenodle and Ethan
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Speaker 3: Chapin wait. I had another thought. I wanted to run
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Speaker 3: by you, yes, ma'am. Of course, the other two victims
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Speaker 3: could very well still be asleep. They may not have
11:21
Speaker 3: heard the first two victims be killed. There may not
11:24
Speaker 3: have been any crying or screaming because it was at night.
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Speaker 3: Everybody was sleepy in bed. But thinking of the order
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Speaker 3: of the victims. Also, where was the knife found Joe
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Speaker 3: Scott under which victim.
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Speaker 6: Well, sheath was found I think adjacent to Maddie's leg
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Speaker 6: in the bed, so that would put the sheath itself
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Speaker 6: at the foot of the.
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Speaker 2: Bed when it was first unsheathed. Maybe yeah.
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Speaker 6: And you know that's my big contention here, Nancy. I
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Speaker 6: bought one of these knives, just FYI in one of
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Speaker 6: these cave are USMC combat and eyes. I bought it.
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Speaker 6: I just I wanted to feel what it felt like,
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Speaker 6: to see what the ability are, what the potential might be.
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Speaker 6: And you know, everybody goes on and on about the
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Speaker 6: snap and about the DNA and what was really fascinating
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Speaker 6: to me, Nancy was the fact that this seems kind
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Speaker 6: of gigantic and belt loop on it, and I'm thinking,
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Speaker 6: why the heck are you holding a knife sheet? Why
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Speaker 6: is it? If you're being so very careful? First off,
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Speaker 6: did you forget your belt when you walked out of
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Speaker 6: the house. Are you wearing clothing perhaps that doesn't have
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Speaker 6: belt loose, like I don't know, a jump suit, you know,
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Speaker 6: like if you go buy at a big box store
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Speaker 6: just to throw on over your clothing. Remember what we're hearing,
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Speaker 6: we've heard dark clothing. That has been repeated. But why
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Speaker 6: would you just leave the knife sheet there on the bed?
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Speaker 6: You've gone to all of this trouble, as Mac and mentioned,
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Speaker 6: to creep up to that third story, you know, under
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Speaker 6: the cover of darkness here you've waited for the lights
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Speaker 6: to go out, and then dramatically you go to the
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Speaker 6: end of the bed and you know, unsheath this knife
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Speaker 6: and then drop it and leave it behind. Why don't
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Speaker 6: you have the same fastintee?
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Speaker 3: Well, I wonder if when he sat down wearing the
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Speaker 3: knife sheath, if he had it misplaced on his belt,
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Speaker 3: it would have you know, come forward when you have
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Speaker 3: a knife sheath on and the wrong it's going to
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Speaker 3: be in the right place on your belt. If you
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Speaker 3: have it, for instance, right in front of you and
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Speaker 3: you sit down, it's going to poke straight out.
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Speaker 2: I don't know.
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Speaker 6: No, no, no, no, no.
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Speaker 9: It's not a clip.
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Speaker 6: It's this is something that a leather loop that you
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Speaker 6: run your belt through. This thing is robust, Nancy. This
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Speaker 6: thing is made for combat. Marines are issued these things.
13:46
Speaker 6: There are a lot of Marine buddies that still have
13:49
Speaker 6: theirs that they were issued these, and these things are robust.
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Speaker 6: They're meant to go into jungle environments.
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Speaker 3: You're right, why did he take off the knife sheath?
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Speaker 3: And it is knife sheath, not the knife itself. I
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Speaker 3: was thinking knife earlier. It's the knife sheath left behind
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Speaker 3: with Coburger's DNA on the snap take to listen to
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Speaker 3: more of what mister and missus Gonsolvas have to say
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Speaker 3: to forty eight hours.
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Speaker 7: He had to know when people are coming, people are going.
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Speaker 4: I think that he at least had opened that door,
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Speaker 4: went in, tested the waters, looked around.
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Speaker 5: Steve says, the coroner told him the killer's rampage started
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Speaker 5: on the third floor, where both Maddie and Kaylee had
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Speaker 5: their bedrooms. Christy thinks he wasn't expecting to find the
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Speaker 5: two friends together in the same bed.
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Speaker 4: I do think that his planine awry. I do think that,
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Speaker 4: you know, he intended to kill one and killed four.
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Speaker 3: Let's think about that, Rachel Schilkey joining me from the
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Speaker 3: Washington Examiner. Isn't it correct that Kela Gonsolvis already had
14:49
Speaker 3: a job and she had come back that weekend to
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Speaker 3: show her former roommates her new car.
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Speaker 9: Yes, that's true. I remember. That was One of the
14:56
Speaker 9: things that shocked me and saddened me about this chase
14:59
Speaker 9: is that she wasn't even supposed to be there. I
15:02
Speaker 9: think her name was still on the leave. I think
15:04
Speaker 9: goes details are a little fissue, but her name was there
15:07
Speaker 9: so she could come and go from the house if
15:09
Speaker 9: she pleased. But she was already gone. You know, she
15:11
Speaker 9: had things going on. She just came back to see
15:13
Speaker 9: her best friend and never got to leave, which is
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Speaker 9: so incredibly sad.
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Speaker 3: Yes, well, put Rachel Shilkey, I want to hear that
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Speaker 3: one more time. What the gold solvices are saying about
15:24
Speaker 3: the order of their murders.
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Speaker 2: Does it matter?
15:27
Speaker 3: Yes, actually it does. When this finally goes to trial.
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Speaker 7: Listen, he had to know when people are coming, people
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Speaker 7: are going.
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Speaker 4: I think that he at least had opened that door,
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Speaker 4: went in, tested the waters, looked around.
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Speaker 5: Steve says the coroner told him the killers rampage started
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Speaker 5: on the third floor, where both Maddie and Kaylee had
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Speaker 5: their bedrooms. Christy thinks he wasn't expecting to find the
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Speaker 5: two friends together in the same.
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Speaker 4: Bed I do think that his Planlin awry. I do
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Speaker 4: think that you know he and need to kill one
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Speaker 4: and killed four.
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Speaker 2: Okay, does that make sense?
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Speaker 3: Part of that I agree with, But why would you
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Speaker 3: go on to kill two more people that had not
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Speaker 3: been alerted to your presence. Tara Malik is joining US
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Speaker 3: attorney co owner of Smith and Malik, former state and
16:19
Speaker 3: federal prosecutor at Smith Mallick dot com. Tara, thank you
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Speaker 3: for being with us. What would be the rationale of
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Speaker 3: killing two other people that were not alerted to your presence?
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Speaker 8: Well, we simply just don't know enough yet. I mean,
16:34
Speaker 8: they may have been alerted to the presence. He may
16:36
Speaker 8: have gone on some sort of killing spree. You know,
16:39
Speaker 8: he's got these two people that are in his clutches.
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Speaker 12: He may have.
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Speaker 8: Gotten some sort of weird adrenaline rush or you know,
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Speaker 8: high off of taking these two lives and moved on
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Speaker 8: to other people in the house. I mean, if you're
16:54
Speaker 8: a killer who's going into a house and perhaps you're
16:57
Speaker 8: caught off guard by the fact that there's more than
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Speaker 8: one person, you may have had one person as a
17:03
Speaker 8: target in mind. You may start panicking and being worried
17:07
Speaker 8: about the fact that you're going to have witnesses, other
17:10
Speaker 8: witnesses who may be present in this house that you
17:13
Speaker 8: weren't expecting, and maybe you're intended to get rid of
17:16
Speaker 8: those and really try and get away from this situation
17:20
Speaker 8: without leaving a trace. And if Coburger is and was
17:25
Speaker 8: the killer, and if he's the type of person who
17:28
Speaker 8: was obsessed with evidence and committing the perfect type of crime,
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Speaker 8: that may be been a thought that was running through
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Speaker 8: his head.
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Speaker 3: Let me ask you this, guys. Tara Malik is a
17:38
Speaker 3: veteran trial lawyer. Does it make a difference? And I
17:42
Speaker 3: believe it does. And I've got a reason for saying
17:44
Speaker 3: that that you are able to tell a jury the
17:47
Speaker 3: chronological order.
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Speaker 8: Yeah, I think it does make a difference. I mean,
17:51
Speaker 8: when you're presenting a case to a jury, they even
17:55
Speaker 8: though one of the elements isn't the chronological order of
17:59
Speaker 8: what occur the jury, the jury is going to want
18:02
Speaker 8: you to paint a picture for them of what occurred,
18:05
Speaker 8: when and where. They're going to want those types of answers.
18:09
Speaker 8: This presentation of evidence has to make sense to this jury.
18:13
Speaker 8: You're trying to convince them beyond a reasonable doubt that
18:17
Speaker 8: this person has committed the crime here, and so you're
18:20
Speaker 8: going to have to track this person's movement throughout this house.
18:23
Speaker 8: You're going to have to track the evidence throughout this
18:26
Speaker 8: house and paint that picture for them as gruesome as
18:29
Speaker 8: it may be here. So for all of those reasons,
18:32
Speaker 8: I think it's very essential for this jury to understand
18:36
Speaker 8: whatever jury's picked for this trial, to understand what occurred
18:40
Speaker 8: in exactly what order it occurred in and when. When
18:44
Speaker 8: you're tracing kind of the forensic evidence and details of it,
18:47
Speaker 8: you know you've got you've got a witness, a roommate
18:51
Speaker 8: who was not killed, and they're going to be part
18:54
Speaker 8: of this story as well, and they're going to be
18:56
Speaker 8: presenting what they saw purportedly in this house too.
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Speaker 2: So when you're explaining this to a jury.
19:04
Speaker 3: You have to have your story down and it has
19:08
Speaker 3: to coincide with the physical evidence or the defense will
19:11
Speaker 3: tear it up when they get the witness on cross examined.
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Speaker 2: The witnesses on cross examination.
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Speaker 3: Doctor Carla Manley joining US clinical psychologist and author of
19:20
Speaker 3: Dates Smart at doctor Carlamanley dot com, Doctor Carla, many
19:26
Speaker 3: people believe that there's a certain order and a certain
19:32
Speaker 3: method that Coburger had to the murder's weigh in.
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Speaker 11: Absolutely, and it makes sense when you look at someone
19:40
Speaker 11: like mister Coberger who has in cell tendencies where there
19:46
Speaker 11: is underlying misogyny, and one would imagine and this is
19:51
Speaker 11: the part that gets my stomach when I think about
19:53
Speaker 11: this individual that calculating cold, merciless elements, it's obvious be
20:00
Speaker 11: present where there are strong not diagnosing him, but strong,
20:04
Speaker 11: clearly strong antisocial tendencies. We can see that moving from
20:10
Speaker 11: the intended victim and then another and then another. That
20:14
Speaker 11: is part of that mindset, that pervasive mindset that arises
20:20
Speaker 11: from him wanting to have control of some sort over
20:25
Speaker 11: his environment. And if indeed he is an in cell
20:28
Speaker 11: feeling rejected, feeling unwanted, and that rage that can come
20:33
Speaker 11: with that in cell personality type. It is actually terrifying
20:37
Speaker 11: and so unfortunate pretty young women.
20:40
Speaker 3: The disturbing theory of the existence of a quote kill
20:44
Speaker 3: kit kill kit has reared its ugly head. Take a
20:49
Speaker 3: list an hour, cut five five, four gonsolvices.
20:52
Speaker 2: Again. He was there to kill. He came in with
20:55
Speaker 2: a kit. I believe he had to kill kid.
20:57
Speaker 5: And you believe that everything right down to the implement
21:01
Speaker 5: of destruction, this large marine knife, that was all planned.
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Speaker 2: All planned. This is inhumane.
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Speaker 7: You wouldn't do these type of things to any living creature,
21:12
Speaker 7: let alone an innocent human being.
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Speaker 3: We've heard of kill kits before. Take a list now,
21:18
Speaker 3: cut seventeen B from ABC. We're talking about a prolific
21:22
Speaker 3: serial killer, Istoriel Keys, who had kill kits hidden all
21:27
Speaker 3: over the country.
21:28
Speaker 10: And he told agents something they'd never heard before, that
21:32
Speaker 10: he left kill kits or caches buried in several states
21:36
Speaker 10: filled with everything he'd need to commit a murder. They
21:39
Speaker 10: were in waterproof containers or five gallon buckets and included
21:43
Speaker 10: guns and different things he could use to dispose of bodies.
21:47
Speaker 10: His strategy to grab people in remote locations like parks, campgrounds,
21:52
Speaker 10: even cemeteries. You might I get exactly what you're a
21:56
Speaker 10: non mescal juice film in a matter of speaking.
21:58
Speaker 6: But there's also no wis is really deals.
22:03
Speaker 3: Around, not just Israel keys, not potentially just Brian Koberger
22:08
Speaker 3: that has kill kits. I'm sure you all have heard
22:11
Speaker 3: of BTK buying torture kill Dennis Raider, the dogcatcher killer,
22:16
Speaker 3: who's responsible for so many murders and we're still attributing
22:21
Speaker 3: murders to him. Take a listen hour cut four nine B.
22:25
Speaker 3: This is his daughter speaking to Fox.
22:27
Speaker 13: He had hit kits, and so we're seeing with Rex
22:30
Speaker 13: Huerman like handcuffs. My father had like fannyback fanny packs
22:35
Speaker 13: with like handcuffs and rope ties like bondage scare bandanas.
22:39
Speaker 13: In hindsight, I actually did see my father's hit kit
22:43
Speaker 13: from the eighty five murder down the street. It was
22:45
Speaker 13: a bowling bag.
22:47
Speaker 2: It was like he didn't bowl, and.
22:48
Speaker 13: So that was weird in hindsight, But at the time,
22:50
Speaker 13: my dad.
22:51
Speaker 2: Just had a lot of weird oddity bags of grab.
23:05
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace too.
23:08
Speaker 3: Cheryl McCollum, cole Case Investigative Research Director, Cheryl what is
23:13
Speaker 3: a kill kit?
23:14
Speaker 12: It's a kid. Well, the person is prepared to do
23:18
Speaker 12: what he thinks needs to be done. At a murdercine,
23:20
Speaker 12: it's going to have a weapon and may have something
23:23
Speaker 12: to bind or hold the victim in place. It's going
23:25
Speaker 12: to have maybe a tart, a shovel, anything they want
23:29
Speaker 12: from A to B to commit this crime. There's no
23:32
Speaker 12: question that Coburger came kill ready. He had a mask,
23:38
Speaker 12: a hat, dark clothing, a knife, and a sheep. When
23:42
Speaker 12: they serve the search ward on his parents house, he
23:45
Speaker 12: had knives at a glock and again this black face
23:49
Speaker 12: mask and black gloves. He had these things. So he
23:53
Speaker 12: absolutely planned this and executed it with this kill kit.
23:58
Speaker 3: What about it, Joe Scott kit, We've seen it, we've
24:02
Speaker 3: heard of it. What would Coburger have had in such
24:05
Speaker 3: a kill kit if it did exist?
24:06
Speaker 6: If it did exist? My thought, and this is the
24:10
Speaker 6: big thing because people keep talking about DNA and all
24:12
Speaker 6: these sorts of things. What I would be very interested in, Nancy,
24:18
Speaker 6: is were there any kind of barriers, like clothing barriers
24:21
Speaker 6: he would have had in there to change to change with,
24:25
Speaker 6: something to put distance like garbage bags, for instance. If
24:28
Speaker 6: you're trying to do a quick change because I can
24:30
Speaker 6: tell you this and forgive me, because this is absolutely
24:33
Speaker 6: the stuff of nightmares. What was perpetrated within that environment,
24:39
Speaker 6: and it has been alluded to, is an absolute and
24:42
Speaker 6: total bloodbath. There is no way, and I mean no
24:45
Speaker 6: one under God's green earth that someone could have exited
24:51
Speaker 6: that dwelling without having been just effuse with blood period
24:56
Speaker 6: in the story, they would have had it all over them,
24:59
Speaker 6: because can't be in this close a contact with living
25:03
Speaker 6: victims where they are fighting against you. You're saving them repeatedly,
25:08
Speaker 6: over and over and over again, and then you're going
25:11
Speaker 6: to walk through the house down into that next landing
25:15
Speaker 6: area and repeat this again. Because those injuries on Xana
25:20
Speaker 6: and Ethan had reportedly been as equally as savage, so
25:25
Speaker 6: it I'm not going to say it's like taking a
25:27
Speaker 6: bucket of paint dumping it on yourself, but you're gonna
25:30
Speaker 6: have blood on you. What's happened to all that blood
25:32
Speaker 6: and what happened to everything that was on him? Did
25:34
Speaker 6: he have the ability to change clothes just outside the house.
25:38
Speaker 3: The idea of a kill kit is absolutely going to
25:41
Speaker 3: go to any type of premeditation. Of course, simply walking
25:45
Speaker 3: into the home with the knife sheet shows premeditation. Premeditation,
25:50
Speaker 3: of course, can be formed in the twin lego n
25:52
Speaker 3: I just like that it's not some long drawn out plan.
25:55
Speaker 3: But apparently here there was a long drawn out plan premeditation.
26:00
Speaker 3: Tara Malik, high profile lawyer. Joining of this jurisdiction is
26:06
Speaker 3: really key here. Agreat or disagree?
26:09
Speaker 8: Absolutely, agree, absolutely, I mean it goes to so many things.
26:14
Speaker 8: But again, you know, this prosecution team is going to
26:17
Speaker 8: have to pick a picture for this jury. And remember,
26:20
Speaker 8: the death penalty is on the table here. The prosecution
26:23
Speaker 8: has indicated that they are going to be seeking the
26:25
Speaker 8: death penalty, so they're going to have to be showing
26:28
Speaker 8: that this was a you know, this was a crime
26:30
Speaker 8: that was really over and beyond what we would even
26:34
Speaker 8: consider quote unquote normal into the realm of absolutely heinous.
26:39
Speaker 8: And to go in and take the lives of four
26:41
Speaker 8: of them is bad enough, but to go in with
26:45
Speaker 8: this idea that you're going to take multiple lives, to
26:48
Speaker 8: have a plan in place, to have this intent, really
26:52
Speaker 8: does catapult it into a different category of crime as well.
26:55
Speaker 3: You heard doctor Carla Many earlier refer to Brian Coburger
27:01
Speaker 3: as an inceel an involuntary celibate. Now we've heard that
27:07
Speaker 3: many many times, that phrase a phraseology. I guess the
27:13
Speaker 3: single most well known or notorious in cell would be
27:19
Speaker 3: Elliott Rogers, a so called virgin killer.
27:23
Speaker 2: Take list an hour, cut three B.
27:25
Speaker 14: On the day of retribution, I am going to enter
27:30
Speaker 14: the hottest sorority house of UCSB, and I will slaughter
27:40
Speaker 14: every single spoiled, stuck up, blonde slut. I see inside there,
27:48
Speaker 14: all those girls that I've desired so much. They would
27:52
Speaker 14: have all rejected me and looked down upon me as
27:54
Speaker 14: an inferior man if I ever made a sexual evance
27:59
Speaker 14: towards them. While they throw themselves at these obnoxious brutes,
28:08
Speaker 14: I'll take great pleasure in slaughtering all of you. You
28:12
Speaker 14: will finally see that I am, in truth, the superior one,
28:17
Speaker 14: the true alpha male. Yes, after I've annihilated every single
28:29
Speaker 14: girl in the sorority house, I'll take to the streets
28:33
Speaker 14: of Ela Vista and slay every single person I see there.
28:39
Speaker 3: Doctor Carla Maley joining a clinical psychologist and author of
28:42
Speaker 3: Date Smart, Transform Your Relationships, Love Fearlessly, Doctor Carla, what
28:48
Speaker 3: is an insult?
28:49
Speaker 11: An intel is a male who is involuntarily fell a
28:54
Speaker 11: bit and that's the key piece. It's the involuntary aspect
29:00
Speaker 11: that can make an in cell so angry and violent and.
29:05
Speaker 12: Filled with rage.
29:07
Speaker 11: And in fact, we sometimes talk about in cell rage,
29:12
Speaker 11: and there are individuals who are in cells who even
29:15
Speaker 11: claim that them being denied their sexual wants is a
29:22
Speaker 11: reverse rape. And that is how distorted their thinking can
29:27
Speaker 11: become because again of the feelings of rejection and not
29:32
Speaker 11: getting what they want, and that pursuit of being the
29:35
Speaker 11: alpha male, that man in their dreams who has every
29:39
Speaker 11: woman and has all of the sorority girls, or whatever
29:42
Speaker 11: it is in their mindset that they deserve. They can
29:45
Speaker 11: act out in such heinous ways because they feel deprived
29:51
Speaker 11: and unjustifiably so in their mind to.
29:54
Speaker 3: You, Cheryl McCollum, what evidence, if any, is there that
29:59
Speaker 3: Coburger in fact an involuntary celibate and in so well.
30:03
Speaker 12: I think some of the friends that have come forward
30:07
Speaker 12: to saying that you know, he was rejected by women.
30:10
Speaker 12: He would go to bars and stare at women and
30:12
Speaker 12: make inappropriate comments that even one of the managers at
30:16
Speaker 12: a local.
30:16
Speaker 8: Bar had to tell him, Hey, if you.
30:18
Speaker 12: Are going to say weird creepy stuff to women, we
30:21
Speaker 12: don't want you back in here, and Coburger, you know,
30:24
Speaker 12: tried to say, hey, you've got the wrong guy, but
30:26
Speaker 12: then never came back to that bar. Some people have
30:29
Speaker 12: claimed that he has reached out over social media and
30:33
Speaker 12: you know, hit people up on their dms and never
30:36
Speaker 12: got responses. So there is some evidence that he has
30:40
Speaker 12: not had a steady girlfriend. Ever, no woman has ever
30:44
Speaker 12: come forward saying that she was a former girlfriend or
30:46
Speaker 12: a current girlfriend. So there's evidence that he you know,
30:50
Speaker 12: not by his own deteam with a loan.
30:53
Speaker 3: To Rachel Shilkey joining us when they Washington Examiner or
30:57
Speaker 3: agree or disagree regarding evident that Coburger is in fact
31:02
Speaker 3: an in cel in voluntary celibate.
31:04
Speaker 9: I mean, I think there's evidence to point towards it,
31:06
Speaker 9: and just kind of what everybody has been saying that
31:09
Speaker 9: his methods of behavior, and just the interviews that people
31:12
Speaker 9: have given to multiple outlets who are voluntary voluntarily come
31:17
Speaker 9: forward and given this information, that is quite a heavy
31:23
Speaker 9: label to give somebody if you don't have the evidence
31:26
Speaker 9: to back it up.
31:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, Rachel Schulkey, You're absolutely right.
31:30
Speaker 3: There is evidence that he was removed from one particular
31:35
Speaker 3: assignment and put in another where there were fewer or
31:39
Speaker 3: no women. There is evidence from people that worked with
31:44
Speaker 3: him when he was a teaching assistant that he was
31:47
Speaker 3: very dismissive and very rude, very strict on female students,
31:53
Speaker 3: and there were actually complaints. There is also claims that
31:59
Speaker 3: he would stalk or harass women at bars.
32:07
Speaker 2: It just goes on and on and on.
32:10
Speaker 3: But you both refer to statements from friends going all
32:15
Speaker 3: the way back to middle school. Take a listen to
32:18
Speaker 3: this from our Fox Nation special on Brian Coburger, who
32:21
Speaker 3: is the I Am blank is the title? After graduated
32:25
Speaker 3: community college, Coburger moves on to to Sales University, reconnecting
32:30
Speaker 3: with his childhood friend.
32:32
Speaker 15: To me, personally, you really opened up more in his
32:34
Speaker 15: leader college years. We're talking more than we talked in
32:37
Speaker 15: high school. He called me fairly often.
32:40
Speaker 3: Billa shares private messages from around this time. One of
32:44
Speaker 3: the main topics of discussion women and more so.
32:49
Speaker 15: I think we talked about a lot the dating scene.
32:52
Speaker 15: I just got kind of really hard. You just having
32:55
Speaker 15: a time. You know, I'm getting ghosted a lot. I'm
32:58
Speaker 15: talking to a girl and then and wondering how watch
33:01
Speaker 15: chitch takes back. Ever, within austry the guy I was
33:05
Speaker 15: talking to this girl and one of this girls cue
33:08
Speaker 15: and I thought we hit it often and we didn't.
33:10
Speaker 15: I guess, so you mean about stuff like that? To me,
33:13
Speaker 15: I think you just felt frustrated is just the biggest word.
33:18
Speaker 3: Frustrated, a feeling doctor Chris Mahondi believes is common for
33:23
Speaker 3: in cells guys. The theory that Brian Coburger is an
33:29
Speaker 3: in cell partially originates from the fact that, according to
33:35
Speaker 3: multiple sources, Coburger tried to reach his victims on social
33:41
Speaker 3: media and was apparently rejected.
33:45
Speaker 2: Take a listen to our cut five to six two
33:46
Speaker 2: from crime Online.
33:48
Speaker 16: Just two weeks before four University of Idaho students were
33:51
Speaker 16: murdered last November, Brian Cooberg sent a series of messages
33:54
Speaker 16: to one of the victims on Instagram. An investigator close
33:57
Speaker 16: to the case tells people in Leidock, an account authorities
34:01
Speaker 16: believe belonged to Brian Coberger sent a greeting to one
34:04
Speaker 16: of the female victims, and when he didn't get a reply,
34:07
Speaker 16: he sent several more messages to her. The source said
34:11
Speaker 16: he slid into one of the girl's dms several times,
34:14
Speaker 16: but she didn't respond. Basically, it was just him saying, hey,
34:18
Speaker 16: how are you? But he did it again and again
34:21
Speaker 16: and again and never got a reply.
34:24
Speaker 3: On top of all of this happened, we are now
34:27
Speaker 3: learning that the judge is trying to close the courtroom.
34:30
Speaker 3: Take a listen hour cut five six y four First
34:33
Speaker 3: Amendment lawyer Jack Griner at Long Crime.
34:36
Speaker 17: The idea of closing the courtroom entirely that the public
34:39
Speaker 17: can't come in for any purpose is separate apart from
34:43
Speaker 17: having cameras in the courtroom. That there has to be
34:46
Speaker 17: a compelling need for the closure, and that there are
34:51
Speaker 17: no less restrictive means. So it's up to the state
34:55
Speaker 17: and the defense, I guess since they both want the
34:58
Speaker 17: hearing closed, to come to articulate a compelling need for
35:04
Speaker 17: the closure.
35:04
Speaker 3: To Rachel Shilkey, is this true? We know that the
35:08
Speaker 3: trial is not going forward October two. We need that
35:11
Speaker 3: as soon as the speeding trial demand was withdrawn. But
35:14
Speaker 3: do you believe that cameras will be banned from the
35:16
Speaker 3: courtroom as well?
35:17
Speaker 9: I think it's heading that way. I was listening to
35:20
Speaker 9: the debate at the court hearing recently, and the jug
35:25
Speaker 9: is bringing up a lot of different speculations from the
35:28
Speaker 9: media and kind of saying that the media is perpetuating misinformation, disinformation,
35:33
Speaker 9: so having cameras might not be helpful to the jury
35:36
Speaker 9: or to the case at all, you know, I think
35:38
Speaker 9: that's there's some truth to that, But also I think
35:41
Speaker 9: that people have a right to see what's going on,
35:43
Speaker 9: because yes, this is it hits everybody, So.
35:46
Speaker 2: We wait as justice unfals.
35:50
Speaker 1: Goodbye, sir,