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Wisdom Under Fire: "That's Above my Pay Grade" · Unspoken Career Truths

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  Welcome to Unspoken career Truths.
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  I'm Lauren Levec Gilbert. And I'm Cara Wood.
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  And we're here to be the Co workers you can trust.
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  In just 10 minutes, we'll cover the strategies you need, the
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  mistakes to avoid, and the insider secrets no one tells you
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  so you can show up with confidence at work.
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  Welcome to another wisdom under fire.
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  I get to debate. We decided to talk about a
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  phrase that I hear pretty frequently.
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  I feel like it's a little bit of a cliche when folks say that's
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  above my pay grade. Lauren, how about you?
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  Yeah, I think I, I think as I've gotten higher up in my
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  leadership roles, I've heard it more, I would say.
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  Yeah, it's interesting, 'cause when I was reflecting on this
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  one, I was thinking about it actually comes up in a few
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  different kind of contexts. Like you hear it when people are
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  saying that they actually just don't have the qualifications.
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  Like, I'm not sure. It can mean, I'm not sure, but
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  it can also mean like I don't have information or I'm not
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  going to share that information with you.
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  Like even if you maybe were Privy to the conversation, the
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  person's not going to own the gossip, they're not going to own
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  the decision. And then other times it's almost
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  like this decision was above me and I couldn't do anything.
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  I couldn't participate in it. And then there's also a meaning
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  to it that's like it's too hot, high profile or too important.
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  Like it's above my pay grade. So I don't want to touch it.
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  Like there's like a fear around it.
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  So actually that's. The one I hear is Cara I, I
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  think it's like, oh, that's about my pay grade.
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  I'm not going to worry about. It's not kind of thing.
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  I think this phrase can be masked as boundaries.
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  So I think a lot of people use this phrase to kind of put up a
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  boundary, but it has like a negative connotation in that way
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  where they're just like, oh, it's not my problem.
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  Like not my monkeys, not my circus.
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  Like trying to say like I don't have to worry about that.
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  But I think that mentality creates silos and not a like one
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  company approach. Yes, and we are jumping ahead
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  slightly our takes. No, no, that's totally fine
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  because I actually it's that's the reason why I brought up the
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  context piece because this can come up in so many contexts and
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  it can throw so many emotions. Where I hear it often is, I
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  guess on the other side of the spectrum where people will say
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  that's above my pay grade and it's a really dismissive
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  comment. Like what you've asked me is not
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  worth my time. Either the task is not worth my
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  time or the question For more information is not worth my
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  time. And that also leaves me with,
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  like, a really bad taste in my mouth.
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  Yeah. I'll just quickly say that this
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  origin, you know, it's mid 20th century military, and it really
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  is literally referring to just what's your rank authority and
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  Intel access. So that's where the phrase first
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  came from. But obviously it's seeped into
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  corporate America. I think it's quite interesting
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  that it came from the military, because the military is very
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  hierarchical and it's built that way.
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  And I think it's what keeps the glue of all of it together
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  because it's like, I make this decision based on my superior
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  and things like that. And I think in business, there's
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  a lot of organizations that have a hierarchical approach, but
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  where the lines blur between like how we interact with
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  different things, I think that hierarchical approach gets
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  harder to actually apply in real life.
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  Well, I think it depends on the organization.
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  And you're trying to point out like the military is 1.
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  Also that there's a lot of culpability, like if you have
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  the wrong information or access to the wrong information and
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  your pay grades are public knowledge.
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  So I think of other organizations like government
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  owned like the post office or when you're at a hospital where
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  if you're the attending doctor, like it really matters.
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  Who made the decision to move forward?
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  And did you get all the paperwork aligned versus like,
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  hey, this is this is, you know, above my pay grade.
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  So I'm going to like see that decision.
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  But then to your point, if you're at a company that's
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  moving really quickly, that's in the private space where people,
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  at least on the website, it's like, we're all equals here.
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  There's good ideas come from everywhere.
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  Then to hear someone say well that's above my grade grade is
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  really jarring. Yes.
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  And I, I would say this phrase specifically, there's a way to
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  reframe it. Meaning like when I hear
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  something like that, what I'm hearing is either like, I don't
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  feel like I should be making that decision because I'm not
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  getting paid to do so and it's not in my roles and
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  responsibilities. Or like I don't want to have
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  anything to do with that because I believe that it's more of like
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  a political problem than something I need to solve.
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  So like when you hear that phrase, like to me, it's like,
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  what are you reading between the lines of what it actually means?
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  Yeah, I agree. And so, yeah, so is your take.
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  I mean anything more that you want to say about your take or
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  your argument for or against? I, I'm against it because
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  because of the connotation and usually I'm a flip flopper on
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  this one, Carl, but for for for this one, like specifically, I
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  think I'm against it. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
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  I think we might be kind of aligned.
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  I feel like I'm. The first one.
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  Oh no, we have to combat there's like.
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  Well, I, I agree with you that the when I think about how this
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  phrase has been used, it's the memory for me of how many people
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  have used it to either dismiss or deflect or avoid liability.
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  And so the only thing that I can say in its on its behalf, there
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  is something there when someone someone's trying to communicate
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  their boundaries and or trying to flag that they are not paid
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  enough for the role that they are being asked.
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  And those are things that you want to communicate, like your
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  boundaries, your job description, you know what your
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  value at the company is like. All of those things are
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  important to express. This phrase is so dismissive
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  that it may undercut your argument. 100% agree.
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  Yeah. And so then I guess let's kind
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  of talk about like those good things that you might want to
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  communicate or like ways that you can, if you, if you're
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  thinking in your head, this is above my pay grade and you want
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  to say it out loud, either what should you say or what should
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  you do instead? I mean, I would flag it to my
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  supervisor and be like, hey, this was brought to me like, I'm
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  not sure how to move forward with this.
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  Can we talk it through together something like that?
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  Like I would bring it forward to like your leadership and see
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  like can they help you navigate it?
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  And so in in that case, are you bringing forward the situation
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  and the information or skills you don't have?
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  Tell me more. I think it would probably be
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  more of the situation. So like this happened and I need
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  help kind of figuring out what to do next.
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  And it's OK to be, I think vulnerable to say like, I don't
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  know what to do. That's really kind of what your
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  boss is supposed to help you with, right, to give you some of
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  that guidance. So that's how I would approach
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  it from, from that regard. And if you truly feel like say,
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  for example, I'm making this up, but say, for example, like the
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  the CMO, the chief marketing officer comes to you and says I
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  need XYZ. And in your head you're like, Oh
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  my God, that's above my pay grade.
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  The way I would respond would be like, thank you so much.
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  Like I need to discuss with a couple of our people before I
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  can come back with a solution because I'm not sure if I'm the
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  right person or I'm not sure if I have everything that I need.
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  But let me get back to you. Like that's how I would take in
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  that kind of scenario and then go have a conversation with my
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  boss or my team. Yeah.
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  And I think in that case too, that's a great opportunity for
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  you to bring up some of the things we've talked about around
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  like liability or just like your scope, your your role scope.
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  And it could even be something that surfaces like there's more
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  training needed or there's more like clear policies needed or
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  there's more understanding. Like if colleagues are coming to
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  you with something all the time that is above your pay grade,
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  why are they like, why are what's going wrong with the
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  communication around what you actually are responsible for and
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  what someone else or your boss is responsible for?
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  Another place where I feel like this comes up again and is like
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  a red flag is when if you're the manager and you're inclined to
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  think about this phrase and it's actually reflecting something
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  where you're like, that's above my pay grade.
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  I wasn't involved in the decision.
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  So I, again, I've heard this used sometimes when someone's
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  like, hey, this was not AI. Can't you know, I'm holding up
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  my hands like in protest, like I can't explain this further.
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  I'm just relaying information that's coming from above me.
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  I think that's actually like a dangerous thing to communicate
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  down to your team. Either get more information from
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  the person who's giving you the decision at the time they're
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  giving you the decision. Ask them for advice on how to
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  share that, or just frame the information in a way that you
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  can communicate it to your team without the skepticism.
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  I love that because as a manager, your team usually
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  mimics the behavior that you that you set out, right.
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  So like, if that's the approach that you take towards situation,
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  then your team is going to take that as well.
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  And it, it can be very off putting and I would almost say
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  business immature to say something like that.
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  So think about how you can handle it differently.
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  Yeah. Well, so to takeaways, Lauren
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  and I are pretty In Sync with this push back.
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  I mean, if folks are want to defend this phrase, but you
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  know, it's off putting, it's dismissive and it can come
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  across as immature. But there is a real need often
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  to communicate your boundaries, your needs, what your roll scope
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  actually is. And so if this phrase is coming
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  to mind or you're hearing it in the context of your workplace,
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  think about where it's coming from because there's a few
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  different places it could be coming from.
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  And then what's lacking in terms of communication or information
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  that you can sort of seek out instead?
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  And that's a wrap. Thanks for joining us on
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  Unspoken Career Truths. Don't forget to follow us on
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