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Recognizing God's Voice: Conversation · Beyond the Sermon

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  You're listening to Beyond the Sermon Podcast, a First
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  Methodist Church in Collingswood, NJ.
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  On our podcast, the goal is not just to share the sermons we've
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  preached, but to go beyond the sermon and talk about what we're
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  learning and what God is doing in US and in our community.
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  Definitely a unique one. Believe in cancelling church for
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  a snowstorm. Yeah.
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  Spoiler alert, there's another one predicted for next weekend.
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  You mean like this coming weekend?
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  Yeah. Because apparently winter
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  decided it's only good to snow on the weekends.
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  Great, but. We'll cross that bridge when we
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  get there. I can't wait to go to Cuba so I
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  was wondering because this was a very unique Sunday for that
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  reason. Do you have any church services
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  or church functions growing up or while in ministry that stand
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  out? Maybe not because of what
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  happened within it, but the circumstances revolving around
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  it. And you can't cop out and say
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  COVID it's. Going to make me sound really
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  old but. Too late.
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  You know, growing up, it was just so different.
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  If we had a snowstorm like this, we just canceled church and
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  everybody stay at home. You know, pastor got to preach
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  that sermon the next week or whatever.
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  And how did you tell people that?
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  Church was kept. Oh yeah.
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  Through the phone chain. Yeah.
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  One person would call 6 people, then each of those people would
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  call 6 people. And you know the good old day?
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  Yeah, back in the day. No emails, text message blasts.
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  No Facebook announcement. Was great because it also like
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  connects more. Can you not just like charges
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  cancelled and hang up on a brother or sister in Christ?
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  Like it would stimulate some minor talking.
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  Yeah, I don't know. I never had to do it.
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  Oh no, it was great. But other than that.
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  I can't really think of anything specific.
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  I go peak millennial and, you know, talk about the Blizzard of
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  96. Either and say Y2K.
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  Oh yeah, that that was an interesting time.
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  Yeah. Yeah.
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  No I was thinking I don't remember snow, bad snowstorms
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  affecting church but also could just be my memory.
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  I was thinking like post church fire figuring out that for
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  Sunday and what was available, how do we meet, where do we
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  meet? And if I remember correctly, I
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  can't remember if the Baptist Church hosted us for like a
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  special, all the churches in town coming together kind of
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  service. I don't know if that was like a
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  Sunday morning, but I remember very shortly after our Sunday
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  mornings for a little bit was in the Pitman Theatre.
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  And we met in the Pitman Theatre for church.
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  And that was neat because they kind of gave us full reign of
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  the building and so like got to go backstage and see the
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  downstairs and kind of the booth and all that kind of stuff.
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  But now that's neat. For those that don't understand
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  movie magic, we did not meet on Sunday morning to live stream
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  you a service. Correct.
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  Can you describe the? Making.
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  Of. The making the.
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  Scenes of Sunday service. Yeah.
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  So I think it was on Wednesday that I, I began to keep closer
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  tabs on what was happening with the weather and sent an e-mail
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  out to Will and Aaron and, and you Jeremy, and just said, hey,
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  I'm thinking we might be looking at canceling our in person
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  gatherings on Sunday. Permanently.
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  No, just for this week and and asked what kind of availability
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  you guys had on Saturday to be able to record something.
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  And so that's what we ended up doing.
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  As you know, by Thursday morning we had made the decision to full
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  stop to just, you know, pivot there.
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  And so we gathered on Saturday night and ran through a couple
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  things and then sat down and just ran it like we were running
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  the live service. Anyway, we had a small handful
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  of people there who were connected with, you know, people
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  who were helping in the service and stuff.
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  So I wasn't preaching to a completely empty sanctuary.
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  Which is why I never looked at the camera.
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  Did I not? Rarely.
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  Rarely. Yeah, that's OK.
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  It's so far away. It is, and I never know which
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  one we're looking at because we have the 2.
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  It's always the one on our left when we're standing on the
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  stage. Yeah.
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  The other one, yeah. But it was interesting like even
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  just like it being dark and not being like one of the annual
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  night services that we have. It was interesting having the
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  lights and going through it, but with seven people in the pews or
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  something like that. And yeah, the one thing I felt
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  bad because the podium mic or whatever it's called didn't get
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  put on as I went up to do scripture.
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  So I said you may be seated, you may stand if you want, or
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  continue cooking, whatever you're doing.
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  And the mic didn't turn on until it says cooking or whatever.
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  I was just like, Oh my gosh. You can hear just a little bit.
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  Man, I figured, you know, what are the unique things that this
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  service kind of brings to the table?
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  But also trying to have people focus in on the important parts
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  of what it means instead of just background noise in the house.
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  But yeah, you know, to lock into.
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  Yeah, always doing and so. Yeah.
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  It definitely took me back to COVID though, and and it was an
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  intentional choice not to say that in the midst of the service
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  because I felt like that would have derailed us a little bit,
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  but. But it wasn't nearly as bad for
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  me as recording stuff for COVID because A, it was in the
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  sanctuary and B, the camera so far away you don't think about
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  it. And I've practiced my sermons in
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  the sanctuary empty before. So it just felt like almost like
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  practicing instead of it being the final product because I
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  don't we've probably mentioned at some point and the archives
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  of this podcast that during COVID when we were doing like a
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  pre made service and we had like.
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  At the previous church we served at the.
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  Previous church we served and like a camera in your face and
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  you went in and you recorded your section.
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  Yeah, I am not meant to be in front of a camera.
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  A voice or a face for radio? Oh my gosh.
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  Thanks. Yeah, it was.
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  Just reading scripture would take me 3045 minutes to get
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  through a single take. Not because I was picking
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  passages that were that long. Oh no, no, they were, they were
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  normal size passages. I just was going to throw up
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  heart rate at 140 beats per minute.
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  Just full panic. It was one of my least favorite
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  things in ministry. Yeah, my my least favorite part
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  of that was having to sit on the couch with my family on Sunday
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  mornings and watch it. Watch me.
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  No, Watch me watch. Me on my final.
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  Because pretty quick into that that COVID time I I took on the
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  lead preaching. Oh yeah, I forgot about that.
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  Yeah, and so to sit there and watch myself preach as to a
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  camera in an office room a lot like IS.
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  It's rough. Is not ideal.
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  Yeah, I know. So, So I, I enjoyed those unique
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  aspects to it because my first reaction, I didn't know the
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  storm was going to happen. And you were like, I think we're
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  going to cancel church on Sunday.
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  I was like, awesome. Why?
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  Like I didn't even know. For me, in my head, I was like,
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  God's doing something. He's moving.
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  We're switching it up from the status quo.
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  Like where is he leading us this Sunday?
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  And you're like, we might get 1 to 15 inches of snow.
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  And I was like, oh, OK, sounds good.
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  Yeah. Yeah, I, I like it when things
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  switch up. I think it opens up
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  opportunities for us to either appreciate the norm or be more
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  open up to different things God might want to do.
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  And so, you know, even just having, like, some youth that
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  are in the neighborhood walk over and help shovel the snow
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  and bond in that way and play some games in the parlor room
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  and whatever to serve the church but also gain some fellowship, I
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  think is really fun. And so, yeah, just opens up some
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  unique opportunities. And for those that completely
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  ignored your sermon and skips on a service because they didn't
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  want to do it online, but they missed the podcast and they're
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  joining us now, could you give us either like a minute summary
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  or like 3 main points you want to get across?
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  You can't have all 5. Go back and listen to that that
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  episode of the podcast. So here is my summary at the end
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  of the the sermon that I think kind of sums it up.
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  God is speaking and he wants you to recognize his voice speaking
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  to you in whatever way it comes because he wants you to know him
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  and to walk with him in a relationship of conversational
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  intimacy. But that doesn't just happen on
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  its own. Just like any skill, we have to
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  learn to recognize God's voice among the various voices that
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  are competing for our attention. And so in the sermon, I, I went
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  on to give some different points about how that story from First
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  Samuel helps us, gives us a case study kind of of, yeah, of some
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  things we can learn that help us recognize the voice of God.
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  But I think that's the most important part, is that God
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  wants us to recognize his voice and he wants to shape us and
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  mold us through it. Yeah.
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  And in that relationship. That was a wild part to me that
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  I didn't click, even though I've read through the story where
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  Samuel grew up literally in the church.
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  Yeah, like, not, oh, I go to church every day, but like, live
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  there. I was raised in it.
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  And yet, how old was he when he heard God's voice?
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  We don't know exactly but. Applied like what?
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  Teen years. Yeah, maybe 1213, pretty early.
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  Yeah. And so growing up in the church,
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  and it says that he didn't know the Lord's word.
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  Yeah, the word of the Lord had not yet been revealed to him.
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  And so it's not that he hadn't heard it, not that he hadn't
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  been around his entire life. Yeah.
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  Can you touch on that? Can you explain the difference
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  for the people? Because that struck me I think
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  the most out of the whole serum because I feel like that is a
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  large part of our big sea church culture.
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  And people aren't even aware that that's an issue or a hurdle
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  or that they that they haven't had it revealed to them, but
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  they think because they are familiar with the text that it
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  has been. Yeah.
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  Well, I, I think there's a couple things going on there
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  because first of all, like we hear the word of the Lord and
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  our mind automatically goes to Scripture.
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  I don't know that that's exactly what the writer of, of First
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  Samuel was getting at. I think Scripture played less of
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  a role at that stage in Israel's history because, you know, at
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  most they had the Pentateuch, the first five books of the
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  Bible that Moses wrote. They didn't have the Psalms,
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  they didn't have the history, but they were, they were living
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  those books right as we go on. The prophets didn't come until
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  hundreds of years later. And so I think we have to make
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  the distinction that the primary way God was speaking to his
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  people in those days wasn't necessarily through Scripture.
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  And so that's the first second thing is the way the the story
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  frames it is that this was a period of time in which they
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  weren't even the people of Israel weren't even getting that
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  many visions and revelations from God.
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  All right. There's one that's talked about
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  in the chapter before this that I think plays a key role there.
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  But it's not like everyone was hearing from God at that time,
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  except for Samuel. It was the the exception at that
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  point. And part of the dynamic there
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  is, you know, this is clearly Old Testament period.
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  So it's before Jesus, it's well before Pentecost.
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  And so the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, operated in a different
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  way in those days. We can read all through
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  Scripture about how the Spirit would come and rest on someone
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  for a specific time or task or to fill a certain role.
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  But then even, you know, after that task was done, the Spirit's
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  presence would leave. In a sense, it wasn't that same
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  indwelling presence that we talked about after Pentecost as
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  Christians. And so you get stories in like
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  Judges where, for instance, like Samuel or not Samuel, Samson,
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  the Holy Spirit would come on Samson, he'd deliver the people
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  from the Israelites, and then the Spirit would leave until the
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  next time. And there would be this kind of
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  episodic anointing that would come on Samson to be able to do
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  what God was calling him to do in that moment.
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  And so I think that shifts things as well.
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  But I think with Samuel here, we begin to see more of what God
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  desired and God intended for his relationship with people as
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  Samuel grew to know the voice of God and walk with him.
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  What did the process look like for you to get to know the voice
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  of God? I think through my teen years,
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  there were some very specific instances where God spoke very
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  clearly to me that were kind of life shifting kind of moments.
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  It's not that I was necessarily expecting it or seeking it even
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  in those moments, but there were, you know, very specific
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  times I, I can remember where God said something very clearly
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  and we had a little bit of a back and forth.
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  I wouldn't say at that point it was the norm.
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  It wasn't the the normal way that I related with God.
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  I'd say it was probably during our time in Uganda that it
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  really became a normal part of the way I interacted with God.
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  Part of that was through some of the missionaries that we were
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  serving with who kind of helped us see how God wants to have
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  that kind of relationship with us.
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  Some of those through some books we were reading that kind of
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  laid out. Here's what it can look like in
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  a normal ongoing kind of way. So that was, you know, close to
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  my early 30s, so some in seminary, but I'd say it was
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  really in Uganda where kind of took hold, became normal part I.
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  Don't have a great pivot to this question.
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  Are you familiar with Craig Groshell?
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  Yeah. Are you trying to be as ripped
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  as him from the pulpit? Absolutely not.
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  I would never make it. I know somebody your sweater
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  knows. Last night I was like, it looks
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  like he's flexing on us and that sweater.
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  See, and I looked at it, I said, well, I never realized how much
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  that sweater with it's like brown and Gray kind of yarn
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  matches my hair. And now everyone on the pod.
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  If you don't know, you can Google Craig Rochelle.
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  He's a pastor, isn't. He's a pastor of the church that
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  started the you version. Yeah, Life Church.
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  The Bible app, yeah. So you can thank him and his
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  team over there for that. That's blessed.
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  I'm sure everyone listening at some point.
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  Well, do you want to answer that last one about how you learned
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  to hear the voice got or what that process look like?
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  Yeah. I can share about that and
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  everyone already knows. I mean, I think I edited it out
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  of the last podcast, but for me, I communication with God, we'll
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  call it that because for me, I still, I still split it into
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  categories because it just feels different in my experience from
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  like what I call Holy Spirit nudges where it's like pushing
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  something and then there's like messages from God.
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  And then I guess it may be even a third, like a Holy Spirit
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  speaking through me like in the moment, not like giving me a
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  message and then I pass it on, but like almost feels like I'm
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  witnessing what I'm saying. I almost feel slightly out of
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  body. So I would say the first time I
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  experienced that was actually the first one I experienced
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  where I was at passion. Everything comes back to
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  passion. I was at either my first or
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  second passion and I, I used to go so I would drive myself and
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  either in my Civic or my Cavalier all the way down to
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  Atlanta. Sleep.
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  I couldn't afford anything. Sleep in my car when I got
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  tired, power napped and kept on trucking, Stay at my godparents
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  outside of the city. And at that point, Passion was
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  attempting to do small groups, which was great, but virtually
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  impossible to do. So they've rented out the
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  Conference Center next to the stadium.
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  And after the night session and before the morning session, we'd
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  go over there, you'd get split up into groups of 5 to 8000.
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  And then when in that room of 5 to 8000, they'd shuffle you
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  around into groups of like 6 to 8, and that would become your
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  group. And you'd get to meet people
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  from all over the country and all that kind of stuff.
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  And was in some group and The thing is like everyone would go
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  the first night or most people would go the first night and
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  then no one would go after that. No one wants to wake up super
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  early before a full day of action, all that kind.
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  So it always dwindle. And then anyway, point of the
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  story being had a group of girls and mine that just happened.
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  I think we had one guy, but he stopped showing up after the
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  first night And we were, we were praying, I think it was like the
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  last morning or something and I prayed and it just flowed.
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  I don't even remember what I said.
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  I don't think I could tell you a minute after I said it, what I
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  said in that prayer. And then at the end of it, I was
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  like thrown off and confused by my prayer because I'd never
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  experienced that before. And then like every single girl
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  was like, how did you know about that?
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  How did you know about that? And like something in the like
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  different things in that prayer was speaking into things going
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  on in their lives that I had no idea was going on.
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  And I was just like reeling, like what just happened?
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  And then I came back to my pastor and I was like, have you
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  experienced this? Like, is this normal?
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  Like what? I didn't know what that was
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  like. No one prepped me for it.
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  No one gave me the anticipation for it or experiencing or
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  yearning for it in the church. So that was the first one.
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  And then the Columbia story everyone's already heard.
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  Heard from him on balcony, turned around thinking it was
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  someone from my group, but no one, no one else was outside
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  with me. And then after that, I started
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  after that and after living in Columbia started like yearning
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  for his direction, not only in life, like big decisions, but
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  also daily decisions and daily interactions and starting to
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  pray ahead of them to be like God if you want to say or do
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  anything like I trust you with this time.
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  And yeah, there's been ebbs and flows where I feel like more
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  frequent. But also I think if I'm honest,
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  that frequency very heavily correlates with times that I am
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  in closer personal relationship with God versus like being in
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  the regular. Like the the amount of church
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  activity stays the same, but personal time with God and that
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  relationship more frequently, hearing and getting nudges and
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  all of that kind of stuff. And then you just get to see the
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  fruit of it, which I think is like my favorite part to
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  witness. And then the harder part to
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  navigate and make sure that he receives all the glory and and
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  that I don't get any or convince myself that I did it.
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  And so, yeah, that's one of the things I love is just like
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  witnessing God use someone like me to do incredible stuff and
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  push people closer to him. Yeah.
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  So that's that's been my experience thus far.
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  Without getting into all the thickets of it, how can the
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  people, if someone is yearning for what we've been talking
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  about in this series, step one, like we're going to end this
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  podcast now. They're going to skip the outro
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  part because they've heard it a million times.
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  What should they stop and do in this moment that can get them
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  one step closer? Stop and listen, you know, maybe
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  say a 10 second prayer of God. I'm not Samuel, but I'm Scott
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  and I'm here and if you would want to speak to me, your
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  servant's listening and then just give him some time.
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  Don't put on worship music. Don't you know, give up after 10
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  seconds. Give it some time and begin to
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  build that into your normal life, you know, and when you sit
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  down to read your Bible for the day, you know, God, I'm here and
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  I'm listening. I don't just want to read the
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  words on the page. I want you to speak to me and
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  read your Bible, pause on the things that kind of seem to like
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  jump out to you. And you know, if, if there's
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  something you're saying, God, what are you trying to say to me
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  through this? And then wait and listen.
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  Yeah, I think. Like say something now.
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  God, nothing. OK, moving on. 32 OK.
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  But yeah, I think it can be so easy to turn what we call maybe
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  our devotional time or a quiet time or whatever, too easy to
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  turn that into a checkbox of I pray about these things on my
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  list. I read this much of the Bible
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  each day. Say another prayer.
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  I'm good to go for the day. And that's good, right?
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  But it but if we really want to hear God, we've got to give him
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  space to speak. He's he's not always going to
• 25:45
  come in with a 2 by 4 and smack you upside the head.
• 25:49
  I don't know if you've ever had the experience of.
• 25:53
  Getting hit by two by four in the head.
• 25:57
  No. But trying to tell a story or
• 26:00
  something or tell somebody something that is really
• 26:05
  meaningful to you and getting interrupted over and over again.
• 26:10
  And eventually, at least for me, I don't know about other people,
• 26:15
  at some point after 123 times of that, I just stop like I'm
• 26:22
  shutting down. I, I'm not going to, if you want
• 26:25
  to know what I have to say, you got to give me space to say it.
• 26:30
  If not, I'm, I'm done. And God's probably not quite as
• 26:35
  petty as I am, but the principles there, right?
• 26:39
  If we're constantly trying to fill the space or we're not
• 26:44
  creating any space to hear from God, chances are we're probably
• 26:49
  not going to. So do it now.
• 26:56
  Take a few minutes, ask Him to speak, and listen.
• 27:00
  Well, that's our conversation for today, but that doesn't mean
• 27:02
  the conversation is over. We'd love to hear your thoughts
• 27:05
  on these topics as well. To ask a question about anything
• 27:09
  we've discussed in this episode or to join the conversation, you
• 27:12
  can head over to fumccollingswood.org/podcast.
• 27:17
  Thanks for being part of this conversation.