Latest / ICOMIA Podcast / Wade Pearce | Asia Working Group | Southeast Asia Yachting Conference

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Wade Pearce | Asia Working Group | Southeast Asia Yachting Conference · ICOMIA Podcast

• We had a really good chat about the, what the Asia Working Group is up to, and that is aligning, trying to align, uh, all the different countries.Uh, it's so fragmented in, uh, in Asia, uh, between the infrastructures, uh, being built, um, trying to raise the standards, and, but, uh, mostly, it's about the communications that we can have as a, uh, as a Asia Working Group going out.Hi, everybody, and welcome back to the ICOMIA Podcast, where we hold the industry's most important conversations.Uh, this conversation is supported by Elite Marinas, so thank you to them for allowing these conversations, or making these conversations possible, should I say.And so, today, we're focusing on the Asia Working Group, which is part of ICOMIA.We're here with, uh, Wade Pierce, who's part of that working group, to talk all about it.So welcome to the podcast.Thank you, Ben.Great to see you, Wade.Mate, glad to be on here, and, uh, thanks for having me.I look forward to having a chat.Yeah.No worries.So, um, as, uh, as, as for some context of you would be really good, and then we'll go to the Asia Working Group, what it's about, and all that good, all that good stuff.Uh, yeah.So I've been, um, organizing the Thailand and Singapore show, uh, Singapore Boat Show, uh, the conferences for the last 10 years- Yeah.um, and also built, uh, built up the Thailand shows, uh, for, a couple years ago, and, uh, yeah.So just different, um, uh, different activities inside of the yachting sector, so more on the event side, uh, and less on, like, the infrastructure and- Yeah, yeah.and doing all the, uh, the workloads.Um, but it gives me a good overall view- I was gonna say this, yeah, yeah.of what things happen inside.If you're running an event, then you're gonna, you're gonna come across all the different stakeholders.Yeah, yeah.You're gonna know all the dynamics between them all.Yeah, and it's, yeah, exactly.And you gotta manage 'em, yeah, yeah.And I think that's, that's cool.I, I li- I like that part of it, you know?Yeah.And so w- w- let's start with some context around the Asia Working Group.What is that about?What's the initiative?What's the kind of goal?Yeah, I think, um, well, what the Asia Working Group, uh, 'cause it has only been established over the last couple of years.Um, Su-Lin Chien, she helps, she runs it.She's fantastic to, to bring everyone together and, uh, and to keep this going.And, uh, I suppose what we're trying to do is r- build up, uh, it, we all know in Asia, um, it's fragmented.It's all, you know, we've got this country, and you've got an association, you've got that one.Well, we don't really all talk to each other, you know?Yeah, and it's also massive.It's very diff- it's massive.Yeah, yeah.Uh, and yeah, you're right.So you've got manufacturing up north, like, uh, in ch- like Japan and Korea and China, whereas down south, you've got these beautiful islands that have thousands of islands that are- Yeah, with tourism and things like that They're big.that are tourism.Yeah, yeah.So, you know, you've got these big spectrums.And then that's what the Asia Working Group's trying to break down or, or trying to bring so we have like a, uh, an- an area to talk, uh, amongst and support each other.Mm-hmm.Um, and that's been, uh, every time we have a meeting every 3 months, you know, we walk out of the meeting going, "We need another meeting next week.Talk about what we just talked about."Yeah.Because there's so much that, you know, we could be collaborating and supporting each other on, um, but it's hard to do that, so And then, uh, let's be quite specific.What kind of things come up?So, uh, in terms of kind of policy or regulation, like, what would be an example of the type of topic that would kind of be surfaced through that working group?And then why does one re- region benefit from that-compared to another?So I- I'll give you an example.You've got, um, associations get funded by their governments and, and by the, the members that are in there, and them, uh, them associates, and then they can do campaigns to help build their, their, uh, industry.A lot of the time in Asia and Southeast Asia, we don't have that funding.So, for, you, you use Australia as anThe BIA is fantastic at doing promotion, and then also in America, the Discover Boating programs.These are, like, funded by the associations because they've got members on board.Um, they do these programs.They get more people into boating.Yeah.It's a big life cy- There's a- Yeah, but they're-c- there's ecosystem.But they can do that 'cause they're an established market.This is a little bitYeah.new, le- not new, a less mature marketYeah.where actually that first step in getting people boating is- Yeah, yeah.one of the biggest challenges to then grow into a flourishing industry that does a lot of business.Yeah.Yeah, and I think that's it.Like, we, we just struggle a little bit with the, the e- s- uh, connecting the ecosystem of our, of our whole industry.Uh, and I think this is what has been benefiting, uh, everybody when, since the Asian Working Group, uh, is because we're putting this at the front now.We're talking about this stuff.We're having these podcasts.Mm-hmm.We're, like, you know, discussing it openly.We need support.We need help.We need to work together, uh, because if not, you know, things are just gonna plateau.You know, things are just gonna keep li- You- Whereas you look at all of, like, uh, coun- countries that have done this type of, uh, progress, you know, they've got standard operating procedures.Um, it's, uh, people have got more confidence in the marketplace, you know, the, and, uh, you've got more customers buying stuff.Mm-hmm.It's what everyone wants.Yeah.And so the, who, who is in the working group?What kind of players are involved?Mm.Just to, just to give people an idea of who is chipping into this conversation, who is at that table, and- Yeah.and why are they there?Yeah, so it's a, it's a formation of the, uh, of the associations around, um, s- around Asia, um, particularly the ones that are ICOMIA members.Uh, they do have some members or, or non-members who come in to, you know, might discuss things or bring something to the table, but their goal is to bring everyone onto the ICOMIA platform or, like, ICOMIA Association to be part of that because then the conversation is a stronger conversation.It's more international, right?Yeah.Yeah, and then we can then start to, uh, Joe Lynch, who's done a, uh, had a really good, um, comment that, you know, you, like, as Asia Working Group, you know, ask, use the ICOMIA, uh-uh, expertise and what's been done before from all over the world ask us about it, how we do that, how we get that done, how we do the marinas.Um, uh, you know, give good, uh, example, like The Marinas World Conference is coming up in Shanghai, uh- Yes.in 20-, in 2000- Yeah.and 27, next year.Um, I think th- and that's gonna be a really good step in the direction for- for the whole Asia Working Group.Yeah.Great opportunities for Asia, here's how everything works- Yeah.here's what the market's like- Yeah.here's some local players.Like, go on, let's- let's support the industry, support the region, and- Yeah.do business there, yeah.And that's it.And I think, um, what we need to do is have more conversations like this- Mm-hmm.and- and have more people talking about Asia, asking the questions, vice versa, we have to be, uh, the ones also saying, "We need- we need your help, we need some support, we need, you know, this."Uh, yeah.Yeah.And so y- you're pretty knowledgeable about marina infrastructure and- and various ongoings with marinas in Southeast Asia, but let's have a little overview, what's- what's the infrastructure like?Yeah.Look, um, uh, just like I was saying before, as far as the ecosystem, obviously you need a marina to put boats in, and you need boats to, people selling boats to, you know.So we've always sort of had, okay, we- we could, if we had more marinas, we could have more boats, but- Yeah, you've got-then we-like hubs of where the activity can actually- Yeah.take place.So marinas are often the kinda pioneers of saying- That's it."Boating is going to happen here."Yeah.And unfortunately- 'Cause- 'cause there's berths- Yeah.there's facilities.Yeah, yeah.Yeah.And then I, you know, just to, just to point- point on that is that all of the infrastructure is privately owned, there's no, there's no government, um, funded ones.Where, uh, you'll- you'll have more established countries, uh, Australia, or any pla-, whereas they have more public, uh, facilities, uh, you know, that, uh, every day everyone can sort of use.Whereas once you start making it private, then the pricing's, you know, a bit, a little bit more expensive, or, you know, it's a, it's a more of a luxury, uh, thing, rather than getting people out and using the boats, umAnd would- would you say the- the standards of marinas vary quite a lot because of this independent ownership?It's not necessarily a group who has a- a series of marinas in a certain region, because they're all independent.1, say family-run or private entity with a marina could be completely different from the 13 miles down the road, the policies, the practices, everything could be quite vastly different.Yeah.So that's the, that's the, that's pretty much what we face all the time is that, uh, you'll have a- a different standard.And- and when that happens, and one of the things, uh, just to bring back to the Asia Working Group, is and, uh, is trying to align these standard operating procedures in every different country to, you know, so we're all on the same path.We're all doing the MIA training for the s- for the staff, uh, for, um, for the staff working in the marina, for instance, you know.So that then you know, okay, if this guy goes to this place, he's got that exper- he's went from that marina, okay, he's- he's good, he knows what he's doing.Yeah.He's gone from that marina, whoa, they're not part of MIA, they're not part of ICOMIA, or they're not- Right.part of the association.So it's potentially less reputable, potentially less trustworthy- Well, yeah.and the experience may- may differ.Yeah, yeah.And I think that this is not like a- a knock on that, it's actually just that we have this g- like, this i- this exists, you know, these frameworks exist, let's start, you know- Yeah, use them.let's start using them because- Yeah.no, you know, we're all gonna just s- like not progress, you know, without- Yeah.So just a little bit of why- why create their own if one that is proven, that works- Correct.in a different region is at least, you know, a good 80% of the way?Okay, there might be some- Mm-hmm.refinements for the particular region, but actually to help marinas operate well- Yeah.these kind of resources and the Asia Working Group, wider ICOMIA knowledge, is- Mm.very useful, it's very valuable.Yeah, absolutely.Yeah.And, uh, you know, I was at, um, the congress, ICOMIA congress in Palma de Mallorca, uh, this year, and, well, 2000, you know, last year, 2025, uh, I was shocked about how much I thought I knew, but then when I sat in the table with everybody, wow, I got so much more- Mm.information, uh, from- from everyone that I- I- I- I took a step back and went, "Okay, that's how we could be doing things differently in Asia."You know, and this is the standard.This is how to approach the governments.You know, this is how to talk to other members in the asso- or non-members of the associations to, to get them on board, you know?And the- So yes, it's, uh, uh, it, like I said, like, we, we, we really hope that Asia Working group, um, can start to, to have that standardized, uh, thing, so that we know how to approach things in the future.And the government is a big one that we will, that we need to be, uh, as an industry, we need to be better at engaging with the, with the Asia governments.Right.A bit more advocacy, a bit more representation- Yeah.to say, "Well, this is what the boat, boating industry would benefit from.Here's the market.Here's the economic potential."And just have a voice there to make sure it's supported.Yeah.Yeah.And I think this comes along, you know, you've got the charter license in Thailand, for instance, you know, and, uh, but that's the only, like, you know, they could do, really have that in Indonesia as well.But do they?Because there's a different taxes and different systems, uh, so close together, uh, all part of Southeast Asia, all part of ASEAN.And I think, uh, what we're tr- obviously with the, uh, Southeast Asia Yachting Conference, um, that happens in April, that is, you know, a place that really should be coming together.We have them conversations as well.Asia Working group, uh, will be there, has a, has a meeting.And we try to bring in some new players so that they understand more about working together, it'll make your job easier.Yeah.And this is, uh, this is where we, we've gotta get to as well in Asia, uh, is, is this one +1 equals 3 situation, where we actually support, like, you know, working together, we'll, you know, build something bigger, um, and, uh, make it, you know, uh, multiply things ar- around us, you know.Mm-hmm.Rather than, uh, everyone's doing their own little thing.And I, and I say that- Yeah.because of, 'cause you're back to what you asked before about infrastructure.We ha- you know, most of the, I'd say 115 is probably one of the, the biggest Asia-based, uh, marina developers.And the rest of them after that are individual, so they've all got their own owners.And the property that they are, they might not even be from the marina industry, you know?They're probably just a property owner, or- Yeah.and they've tur- turned it into a marina.Yeah.And I love we- of what we've discussed is, is I suppose, this, this value on local partners.It is, it is so different and so complex compared to the more established European markets or America markets, that this knowledge, this connection, and this understanding- Mm-hmm.of how different it is and how to operate there, it becomes so valuable.Because yeah, you can soon waste some resources doing the right thing.And so it kinda helps things along.Yeah.Yeah.I mean, um, another point that we bring up a lot in our Asia Working groups is, um, things about the, uh, boat shows and the conferences that happen.And I mean, almost all, and it's about grow boating.And, you know, around the world, we talk about grow boating, and that's very established.And what, what I mentioned before about discovery, uh, boating in America.And, every time in these Asia Working Groups, they say, "Yeah, well, I mean, BIA in Australia's been doing this, uh, campaign.Let's just copy that campaign."Then we start trying to do it, and then it's like, "Oh, yeah, but it takes time and effort and money and resources, and who's gonna do this work?"And, uhYeah.So the only way to achieve it is all collaborate, all get behind it.Yeah.Ultimately, you um, you all benefit, so you, so that all the members have that kind of commercial interest, that bottom line.Yeah.Yeah.Board level, they're happy.Yeah, yeah.Yeah, it's worth, worth an investment.'Cause I- But it's realistic to achieve at the end of it as well.Yeah.Yeah.And, uh, and this is it.Like, um, I mean, for all of the great marketing campaigns that boat, uh, builders will do and, and dealers areI mean, we still, as an industry, the more we could do, uh, together, um, it will multiply the reach way more than the fanciest looking marketing campaign from one brand.That is just, you know, but once we all get together and we do a campaign that we're all promoting out, uh, at the same time.And this is something I brought up in the last, you know, why can't we just put a, an Asia yacht show list or e- and, uh, Asia boating, uh, calendar, you know?So that people- Yes.Yeah.uh, who wanna get into the, in, uh, to the market, they're, they know, "Okay, I'm gonna go to Korea in, in March.I'm gonna go to Japan for the Super Yacht Summit in, uh, uh, in May.I'm gonna go to Singapore, uh, to find some dealers, uh, for my "So yeah, I suppose, I'm, I'm, uh, digressing a little bit from what, you know, question.Yeah, yeah.But, well, I'm trying to, trying to bring that connection back, uh, you know, just, just say that, um, um, why the Asia Working group, we, we wanna be able to communicate out more and get people- Yeah.you know?So, so actually, uh, a whole lot of it is, is, uh, information in one place that's reliable and right and tried and tested from proven players, and then communicating that.That, that's like most of the mission.Exactly.Uh, find the right information that's trustworthy, reliable, get it out there.That is, that is a big mission.And- It makes it sound like, you know- Yeah.our mission is 2 sentences.And I'd probably- It's, it's a difficult thing to do, but yeah.dou- I'll double down on the communication, is the data.Join, yeah.I mean, how many marinas are there?H- How many boats are there?Mm-hmm.Like, c- between Southeast Asia alone, again, and, um, I think, uh, with the Southeast Asia Yachting Conference, which will happen, is the, n- one of the first points is there's been some research going into the data, how many boats are actually-based there, how many cruising through, um, not just on the super yacht side, but on the bigger, on the, on the smaller boat side as well.Uh, because the, this type of data we should be collecting as a, you know, as a big group, not just like, "Oh, okay, yeah.He knows a little bit or she knows a little bit."You know, like, come on guys, we gotta get this all together, this data.Then it helps you go to the governments, you know?Yeah.And, and like everyone, the economic impact of everything, you know, it tells the biggest story, so.Um, yeah, it's why we, we need toYeah, yeah, it makes sense.And so the, for, for boating in Southeast Asia, I, I believe it's quite difficult to move from one region to another.So if you go across a body of water, let's say, and you're changing country, why is that so complex compared to somewhere like changing from European countries or along the coast over in America?Yeah, look, uh, I mean, you got language barriers, cultural- Yeah, culture.yeah, cultural barriers.Yeah.Um, and, and then also obviously with the, uh, with the governments themselves, um, they're not, they've all got their own immigration policies.You haven't got something like a EU for instance, you know, when you're cruising through, um, you know, if, if you're from Southeast Asia, you're, you know, you still need to have a visa to go to another Southeast Asian country or some- You know, whereas, um, Europe, you don't, you don't have that- Yeah.you know, that, that issue, so.Um, and again back to our work, as a working group, you know, what we need to establish as far as this alignment is, okay, let's list out, okay, this is the infrastru- uh, sorry, this is the immigration policy for coming in and out of Indonesia or Malaysia orThere is not one single platform where all this information is.Wow.Why, w- wouldn't it be just be so help- helpful for, for everybody involved- Yeah.if you had one website that you, or one place, one platform you can go to to find out the immigration.And I mean, it's in places like Noonsite- Yeah.and stuff like this.Um, but as an association, as a well-organized association, I think this is something, a goal we should be aiming to, is to, to provide a platform, um, that's aligned and, and everyone knows that's the standards, and that's where, that's where they get things from.Yeah, that ma- that makes a lot of sense.Yeah, on.Yeah, no, just-'cause there is, you know, notes, it's ba- based on, um, there's some bad experiences people have, and once they have the bad experiences cruising, for instance, reg- regulation of cruising, I mean, they're not gonna come back.And then they start talking about it to someone else and someone else, and they get the wrong story, and then all of a sudden- You got misinformation-there's pirates all over the place.Yeah, yeah, yeah.You know?Yeah, yeah.It's, it's that, and uh, I think again, you know, bringing things back to one platform really would make a, a massive difference, so.Yeah.And so if you're a, if you're a player either looking to get involved in the, the ICOMIA Working Group or just generally be involved in the Asian market, wha- what would be your advice for finding the right information and forming that strategy for success?Um, yeah.I, I think, um, what we need to do with the I- uh, Asia Working Group is again communicate that a little bit more, like, the benefits of, of it happening, wha- what we're up to, collecting data.Uh, and that way I think more of the countries that aren't a member of ICOMIA, they would start to see more value in this that we can show them, you know, this is the progress we've made.Um, would love to get to a s- you know, um, try to, try to get back to your other question.But, uhI think, um, uh, the one big thing that we will, would need to be able to do is as a person coming in to understand the, how the import taxes or, you know, this type of thing coming to if I was aYeah.Build a- I'll ask you again.Yeah, you go again.So right, we need to match the frame.Are you ready?Okay.So if you're a, if you're a player looking to enter the Asian market with things considered like the Asia Working Group that as a resource, and, uh, and ICOMIA, what's kinda your words of advice of how to approach that for ultimately achieving the success in, in what they're trying to pursue?Yeah.Look, that's, uh, the good question because this is what, uh, we should be as a, as a Asia Working Group, uh, trying to make it clear and obvious.So if you're a company coming in, then I, uh, you know, uh, not that you, you could demand it, but this is something that I would be going to ICOMIA and bringing to, uh, forward to ICOMIA, uh, or, and to the Asia Working Group, um, and wanting to be part of the conversation.Because you could then, uh, you know, benefit from having this, like thisAnd, and totally ev- uh, the Asia Working Group's quite open to, you know, having more input and, um, more ideas.UhBut so it's the, it's kind of the sheer volume that you would learn so quickly.Mm-hmm.And so rather than, you know, trying quite sporadically to find the right information, the right partners over a period of 2 or 3 years- Yeah.get involved in a working group, or at least kind of use and leverage those resources.Save you a lot of resource, save you a lot of money, save you a lot of time, meet the right people.Yeah.Yeah, that's it.That's the way.And, uh- Yeah.and I think get clearer data, you know?Mm-hmm.And, uh, I see a lot of the time people come in and, and don't, they don't understand the whole gravity of, of things like multi- like, language and, yeah, of course people understand- It's complex, there's so many things.Yeah, complex.I mean, we covered taxation-regulation- Yeah.d- language- Immigration, language barriers.That's my favorite.You go boating for a few hours and you're like, "Suddenly I can't communicate."What a nightmare.Yeah, yeah.Yeah, exactly.Yeah, yeah.Um, and I think that's the wild part of, uh, Asia, it's why we- Mm-hmm.it's why we love it, it's why everyone- Yeah.you know, wants to see something different.Yeah, and it's exciting.And it's, and it's exciting commercially as well.It's a, it's aI, I feel like it's a, a market with huge potential, kind of ripe for capitalizing on it.Yeah.But it's gotta be done cleverly, it's gotta be done right.It's not like you're gonna be a big player there overnight.Yeah, that's it.And I think when it comes to back to if, if you're a, if you're someone trying to get into that, it's, yeah, having them expectations, um, met properly, you know, or you're, you're trying to gauge it, uh'Cause if you come in and thinking, "Wow, I'm gonna be doing so good from this, bah, bah, bah, and all I need to do is get my foot there," and then you don't have a good experience and you walk away, "Oh, there's nothing going on in Asia, it's-" Yeah.There's aBut just because you didn't have the right people to, to talk to, you didn't engage with it, you didn't, you, you sort of over ex- uh, expected too much.Yeah.Um, but saying that, yeah, it is exciting.It's opportunities, uh, you know, there's so many more opportunities I feel, um, when I'm in Asia that, you know, "Wow, I'm a bit excited."Like, I see- Huge potential, yeah.I see some development happening down on the marina, like, on the waterfront, I was like, "Wow, new marina coming in, that looks cool.""It's gonna be good."Whereas both in Europe, I don't feel that as much, you know, I feel like everything's already done, so I don't feel like, "Oh, there's no opportunity for me."You know, there's no opportunities.It's less exciting, isn't it?Yeah.It's less- So- That's right, yeah.I think it's pretty cool to be able to do, and I think, uh, you see that sparkle in everyone's eye when they see something being developed.And- Yeah.I think it's good.Okay, I've got a closing question for you.We've got the Southeast Asia Yachting Conference coming up.What is that about?What are you hoping people turn up and kind of hear, take away, to go back to base and say, "Well, this is why I went, this is what I learned"?Yeah.What's happened in the lastThis will be the third year that the Southeast Asia Yachting Conference.The first 2 years we've had, like, great, uh, good attendance, progressive attendance that we were ha- I mean, it's not biggest conferences in the world, but went from 150 to 250, we'll be expecting about 300 in the room, which is a full room.Oh, nice, wow.That's- And- Yeah, it's bigger than I thought.Yeah.You go across the room, it's like, you know, 20, 25 people coming in.Oh, yeah.It's quite big.Yeah, yeah, yeah.So, and it, and I mean that it'll have, um, we'll have a breakoutWell, sorry, we'll have a, uh, panel discussions, uh, talking about sort of the state of the industry, so more of the data-driven things.But one of the main points that we'll be taking out is, is to try to establish more alignment amongst the Southeast Asia con- countries especially.And I think I- ICOMIA will have a, a strong role in this as well, because the way that they've already structured globally, they've got frameworks in place.You know, we just, as a, as a Southeast Asia, we need to, um, be more open to, to, to doing that, having conversation where we're working together, uh, and aligned.And they, they then can become standard operating procedures.Um, you know, if you're a marina, then you have this, that.If you're doing a, if you're selling a yacht, then you're using a MEPA contract, you know, or if you're doing, uhWhich is pretty funny that we're using a Mediterranean yacht brokers- Yeah.in Southeast Asia when we don't have anything.Yeah.So it's better we use something that's already established than try and reinvent, uh, a Southeast Asia yacht brokers.Like, uh, you know, 'cause it's just, we don't have the scale.Yeah.And, uh, yeah, it's it's big thing that's gonna come out of this conference is not just another, uh, get up there and talk about how cool your company is, um, and what you're up to, and, uh, you know, future technology you've got.Um, it's more about, okay, we've got these challenges, the solutions are there, but we don't do it all together, so we need to align as- Yeah, how does the region work?How does it?Uh, how does it work?And having a platform, let's all agree that, you know, we've got to, uh, have this one platform.Because once we have this one platform that everyone knows this is where the information is, or this is how to approach a certain region, uh, then everyone will, uh, even though you- Yeah, progress comes from that, that.People will think- That's right, yeah."Oh, yeah, I'm giving away, I'm gonna be giving away all my trade secrets."Yeah, but you're probably gonna benefit in the long run, over 5 years you'll get more of your, uh, and, and this is, uh, one of the key parts is that, uh, we've got-Um, I, I mean, s- um, one of the panels is about, uh, the anatomy of a brokerage deal.Because over the last couple years, more, more boat owners in Southeast Asia or in Asia in general are becoming, uh, first time buyers.Uh, they don't totally understand it, and a lot of the time the brokers are not always selling boats all the time, or they might've come from the car or the real estate industry.So, they don't bring the lawyers involved, they're not using the contracts properly.Uh, and then the owner has a bad experience.Or sorry, the new boat owner has a bad experience.They bought a 30-meter yacht, they're expecting everything to be done, they're expectingYou know, n- they don't wanna pay for crew, they don't wanna pay for their yacht management services or- Yeah.because it wasn't told to them in the first place.Yeah, they didn't know that one bill was gonna be there, yeah, yeah.Yeah.And so, the, uhI mean, yeah, so just because, uh, you're a broker and you do a deal, but then that boat owner doesn't everLike, they might be a wealthy individual, uh, they never wanna buy a boat again, and they're gonna tell all their wealthy- I think, yeah-friends that they shouldn't buy a boat because it's just too costly.and it's such a shame, 'cause they would've gone boating for years and now- Yeah.the, the- And I-the economic benefit there- Yeah.of what would've happened- And-doesn't happen, and so it's, yeah.And I think that's where us, as an industry, that's where we, uh, um, we could be better at sort of self-policing oursel- like, you know, stand- keeping that standards up.Not, uhAnd, and explaining to the owners and poten- potential owners, "Yeah, but if you had a yacht a- if you had a yacht manager, and they were looking after, your boat resale value is gonna be higher."You know, this is just aIf you have, uh, all your logs, and, uh, y- that the properly done servicing and things, uh, thenBecause you just hear too many stories that, um, you know, boats are being left to, you know, or they haven't been serviced to, for whatever time.Haven't been hauled out for 5 years or, you know- Mm-hmm.things that you're just like, "Whoa."Yeah.That's, that's not a good thing.So, I think that's, that's a conversa- that's where the conference, uh, will be trying to achieve, is, is to bring that alignment of everyone.Wade, thank you for coming on the podcast.Mate, thank you, Dan.I've learned a lot.Hey.Thank you for everything you do.Happy to get on another one.Thanks, yeah.Everybody, if you enjoy content like this, make sure you're following here to see plenty more of it.A big thank you to Elite Marinas for supporting these conversations.They simply would not happen without them, so thank you very much to them.All being well, we'll see you on the next one.Bye for now.See ya.