Latest / Legally Brunette / Killer Thriller: Kato Kaelin: O.J.'s strange behavior right before Nicole Brown Simpson was murdered

Transcript

Killer Thriller: Kato Kaelin: O.J.'s strange behavior right before Nicole Brown Simpson was murdered · Legally Brunette

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Amy roboc and TJ.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Alisa Donovan. Hey everyone,
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Elisa Donovan here and this is Killer Thriller. Today. We
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: are talking about one of the most famous true crime
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: stories ever, but from the point of view of someone
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: people think they know because they remember the hair, the tabloids,
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: the jokes, and the quote HouseGuest label. But Kato Kalin
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: was right there on Rockingham the Knight Nicole Brown, Simpson
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: and Ron Goldman were murdered. He heard the thumps, He
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: went on that late night McDonald's run with OJ Simpson.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: He testified in the Trial of the Century. Years later,
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: after the People v OJ American Crime Story brought this
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: case back into the spotlight, people are still obsessed with it.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: So we wanted to talk to the real Cato about
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: what the show got right, what it got wrong, and
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: what still shocks him about the case. Kato, thank you
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: so much for being here today and for being here
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: in person.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: It makes a difference.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: It makes a really, really big difference.
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: When you said, Cato, we got a couch and it's
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: a pull out, I was like, Lisa, thanks, Look, I'm
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: not I can afford my own couch.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Now, I was like, listen, listen, listen, I can help
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: you out out. So I do want to share with everyone.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: We just discussed that when I first moved. First of all,
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I visited Los Angeles for the first time when I
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: was in New York the week of June twelfth, nineteen
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: ninety four, the Bronco Chase interrupting the Knicks game all
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: of this, and I went, what is wrong with this city?
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: This is crazy. Then I moved to LA several months later,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: and the gym that I belonged to, better known as
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Butts on Beverly, was on Beverly and sweet Sir. And
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: I walk in the door and who is working out
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: in the gym but Kato Caitlin. And I'm like, what
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: is going on?
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: That's so funny. I think I asked you to get
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: a spot.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And it was like Bruce Springsteen Dave Navarro
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: that I had a huge crush on. I think he
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: knew and he sort of would like milk it and
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: say hi to me all the time, and I was embarrassed.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: It was like quite a scene.
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: Everybody worked out there and it was the like the
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: cheap place to go. You remember when you'd work out there.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: You'd be in the bottom and you'd hear all the
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: crooking starts of the way you go this and it's
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: an old building, you're going, I know it's going to collapse.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Felt that way.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's so funny. And I was there for
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: I was there way before the trial, even during it. Yeah,
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: and it's uh it really everybody was there and everybody
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: kind of mind their own business.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, you David Spade, I tell
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: a story call oh yeah, David Spade made fun of it,
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: SNL because you do mean the trial and the StairMaster
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: going on higher speed, that's all. I would do that
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: at the high level. But that was back and a
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: lot of aggressions, So you.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Get it out.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: I'm sure I didn't really, So Okay, let's other than
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: working out at the gym, what was a regular day
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: like for you at that point before all.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: This, I had a casting business. I had a day
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: casting with a Grant Kramer. If you know, Grant was
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: on General Hospital. He did the movie Heart Parties. He
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: was a big, big heart throb. So Grant and Grant's moms,
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: Terry Moore, who was with Howard Hughes and so Grant
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: and I started a business to casting, so it was
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: more of the like extras casting, although we did day
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: parts for SAG so it kept our insurance going. And
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: I'd get myself a part in, you know, in a
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: film like the a lot of the lower budget but
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: SEG films like Lorenzo Lamis and whoever that Don Wilson,
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: like the Karate films that are were huge back at
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: the Y.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: So I would do that. I'd be on sets.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: Until four in the morning and just wrangling people. So
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: I was always kind of in the business doing that.
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: And I, you know, I had a few commercials and
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: just the same actor's life, trying to.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Survive, right, right. And so you met if I if
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: I correct me, if I'm wrong, you met Nicole in
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: Aspen on a trip and like, tell me how you
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: wound up living with her.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: Grant and I would do really well in the business,
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: and he said he was, uh, you know, in that
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: celebrity group, and I sure wasn't. But he and I
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: became buddies and we said let's drive. He said, let's
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: drive to Aspen and we actually drove his Bronco. So anyways,
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: but it was it was not white so we drove
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: drove his car from LA to Aspen. He said, everybody
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: goes there the day after Christmas and spend the New
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: Year's Uh.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: So he did.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: And he used to do those ski like cointrop all
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: the celebrity ski tournaments. So when he was an Aspen,
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: he said, I think that's Nicole at one of the
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: parties and they made eye contact. They knew each other,
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: and she was divorced from og at the time, and
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: they immediately kind of locked eyes. And the trip it
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: was just those guys together and I was the third wheel.
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: Oh wow, but that trip trip.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Was Oh did they date? Did they wind up dating?
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, After the trip they had a few dates.
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: You know, they hung out and while we're in that
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: third wheel that we went out. I'd go out too
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: with them sometimes because I was comic relief, I guess,
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: and she had Faye Resnick with her what I didn't
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: hang out with.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: But I ended up meeting the name prop.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: This is before the trial now, so I ended up
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: meeting Catherine Oxenburg at the time was on Dynasty, and
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: we started dating me and I was like, oh my god,
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: this girl is uh you know, my tax records doughnuts
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: and princess and she was Danish, Danish donuts and Danish everything.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: So we we dated and then we started hanging out
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: and Nicole had would throw a little git togethers at
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: Gretona Green not Bundy. But then I was in her
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: Moosa beach. I said, hey, she was taking a liking
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: to me with the kids, liking like this guy's Wisconsin
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: and trust. And then she said, I said, who lives
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: in your guest house? Can I rent it? And then
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: I rented it and that was it. That's the story.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: And then her and.
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: Grant broke up a Yeah, he's a great guy and
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: she's a wonderful woman.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Did you think in any So, I mean, I have
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: so many questions, and I really appreciate I can't imagine
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: how much you have had to speak about this, so
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. And I also know.
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: You've an interest and it's it's something it's sort of cathartic,
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: but it's also Yeah, it's questions that you have. And
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: I have no problem with people with the stuff, because
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: you're right, I've done so much, but it's so good
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: that I can put a voice to things and make it.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: More human and have The thing about this kind of
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: platform too, that I really love is that you get
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: to have like longer conversations where you don't just have
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: to give a SoundBite and then like move on, you know.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: So it's a nice so to that end, so many
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: and a couple of our producers are like, we need
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: to understand this. I'm like, okay, the night of the murders,
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: you went to McDonald's with OJ. What I need to
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: understand was this before the murders after? Like what was
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: the context and what was he like? Was was he
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: acting stream?
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll answer all that. So back in the day,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: I used to run.
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: I did a few marathons, and I played basketball, so
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: I would got I was working out and it was June.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: It was you know hot that it stays light longer,
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: so I was worn out.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: I came back. I said.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: I was always kind of this person like should I
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: use the prop you know, the jacuzzi?
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: I used the jacuzzie and then later and I'm always
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: aware that I would if I do something, I make it.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: I make sure I would turn off or whatever.
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: But he came to my door and he is, yeah,
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: a very good house guest, and he never really came
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: to my never, so he came to my door and
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: asked him if I could break a hundred dollars bill
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: and I couldn't, but I said, I have forty.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: I can give you this forty that I have and.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: He said, oh okay, and and it was he was
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: just like even back then, I was going strings he
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: came to my door, but I wasn't.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Do you think I see you for change or one hundred.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Of Yeah, so that's but for what.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: Well then he's he said he's going to eat, and
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: I didn't know McDonald's. Now I thought, oh my god,
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: I'm starving, So I said, can I go?
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Can I eat with you?
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: And he did this, I said, before he does this pause,
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: and I knew right when he's pausing that I over
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: saved my welcome sort of thing like you're not invited.
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: And it was really uncomfortable and it was like a
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: five second chick and he just went, yeah, sure. And
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: then it made me feel like the whole time I'm
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: driving there now, I have no idea what we're going.
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: I don't eat McDonald's, and if I did, I just
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: I didn't did the meat thing, but not that.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: So yeah, regretting your decision immediately.
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: So I'm being quiet in the car he's driving, and
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: it ends up that he goes to the McDonald's drive
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: through in Santa Monica. And then I didn't know the
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: McDonald McDonald's were, but the detectives when they were questioning me,
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: it was fun. They go, why do you go to
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: that McDonald's and not the one right on Wilshaw.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: I I had no idea.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: I had no idea.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: Ye, and that was you know, that's the whole McDonald's
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: drive And so he got that. I got a chicken
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: sandwich and he took this. I think he got two quarters,
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: but he ate the first one and like in two bites.
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: And I then, you see my testimony, I said, I'd
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: wait for the entree head home and I go.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: We parked.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: He goes in the car in the driveway, and I
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: get out of the driveway and walk towards his house,
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: not my guest house. And I go and I opened
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: like the screen door before you open the main door.
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: But I looked and he was still at the door
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: of his car. It's about a twenty twenty five yards away,
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, okay, I'll see uh, I'll
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: eat my room.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Wow, that was it?
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: So did you? I mean, this is like this becomes
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Do you feel like you were disrupting his alibi? Like
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: you were giving him an alibi essentially?
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: I have nightmares. And I actually told asked, told Kim
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: Goldman on a show many years ago. I said, I
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: feel like I ruined his timeline. But and she goes,
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: you can't think that way, and so whatever it was,
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: so it kind of affects me even today. But I
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: went back the room and ate, and I make a
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: phone call to my buddy. I'm from Wisconsin, a very
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: close relationship all my friends still.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: To this day. And his name's Tom and he was
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: a DA in San Diego.
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: And I was like, hey, I guess you know you're saying, buddy,
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: you know, acting cocky, but in a funny way.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: And then the rest is sort.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Of what is that when you heard the Now.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: It's after so I'm talking the phone and I'm on,
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: I call this girl up.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: It's different different times.
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: And then I heard, uh, the pictures it's a wall
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: just like this on your set and there's a picture
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: and the picture went kind of like this, and I
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: heard the uh, uh this noise.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: I thought the picture move. I thought maybe we had
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: an earthquake.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: I said, hey, I think we had an earthquake, and
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: she said no, I don't think so I said, oh,
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: my picture moved.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: And this is relevant because that timing means that he
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: was there, right, Is that.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: What that they're saying that probably now it's a wall.
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: It's like sort of, that's this much space in between
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: the two houses, the like a little sideway full of cowboys.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: No one goes back there.
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: Yes, and that's where detectives hindsight thought maybe he hit
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: his head and dropped the glove, said the glove. And
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: they could because I have an air conditioning unit. Yes,
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: and they think maybe that's what happened. We'll never know,
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: but it would make sense of my gosh.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: But you, of course have no idea of this at
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: the time.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: No, nothing, nothing until that morning. And I was you
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: know that it was a June gloom. It was one
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: of those those nights where everything has felt off.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: You can't explain.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: You don't think murder anything, but you feel like, what
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: a strange night. And at like two thirty am, I
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: heard like these footsteps going by it on heels. I
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: thought Okay, that's Arnell's daughter. She was in the bungalow
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: next to mine. I go, oh, she's just getting in
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: or whatever it is. But I heard everything. And the
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: girl I'm talking to, I say, why don't you come
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: by here? And she goes, no, come to my place,
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: and we're going no, I'm going to try to get
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: some work, you know, that type of her to do
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: a resume. And even then I'm thinking, Uh, this window
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: that I had with the gloom, you know, you think
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: you hear things, and I was.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: It was just aw. I can't explain it.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Isn't that funny how it's like there is You're like,
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: something's not something is.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Just one of the persons.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Why am I so conscious of everything that's happening right
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: now or something?
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Percent It was if June Gloom times one thousand that night?
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Did you well, first of all, were you ever afraid
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: of Oj?
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: No?
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: Never, I was never afraid of oj because first of all,
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: he was working, I think, Notre Dame Games.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: He was gone a lot.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: So I was there for six and a half months,
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: and I was stayed with her for six and a
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: half months, so I lived in both and I thought
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: I had this great room with a view on both
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: sides of how people live.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: And that's why they thought I was a valuable witness.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: I saw how they lived, sure, But he was this
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: charismatic man that he loved being adulated, but he loved
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: people recognizing.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Me and doing an article. He lived for that.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: And then you saw the sort of the downfall when
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: the trial was going on and the more evidence came out,
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: it was it was just a lost soul. But no,
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: he never I didn't did hang out with him because
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: I had my own friends. I did see him at
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: the house a few times.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Did you ever see him like yelling at Nicole? Did
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: you did you miss any of that sort of thing?
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: The only thing is there's a nine on one call,
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: but I wasn't there for it. I came after the
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: fact with the police and he at the Gretna Greenhouse. Yeah,
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: And he ripped the door of the French doors. And
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: then Nicole was telling we I hammered it shut after
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: the fact that he had gone. So I think my
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: voice she's talking to the police, and she says, no,
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: it's okay, that's Cato.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: I'm on that now.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: So and then she said he's crazy, and and I
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: just know, I come from this, my parents passed away.
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: When I come from a family where my mom and
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: dad never argued that they did they kissed. So I said,
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: why do you guys ever? You got everything in the world,
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: beautiful kids, and so I never could in my mind
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: think what problems there? But there's everybody's problems, big, yeah.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Big problems. I also interviewed Keith Slam Keith.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: I knew Keith. Keith did the show that I did too.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: You were very open about it, and he told stories
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: that were, you know, pretty amazing with OJ and.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's what I was so shocked and just thinking
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: about that. You know, it was all the things that
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: people forget, you know, and I appreciate when I've heard
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: you speak on this and you you know, always come
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: back to these are two people that lost their lives,
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: and we can't ever forget that. You know, there's so
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: much that surrounds all of it, the celebrity and the
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: extreme nature of all the things, and the lies and
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: the trial, and you know, but it's really these two people,
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: these innocent people.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was.
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: It was completely It never was about them in the
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: trial because the media, the media, all these shows at
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: that time the Current Affairs, the hard copies, they went
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: for different stories and you know, I wasn't the media
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: kind of controls anything that they want to make for ratings.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: And the story was the dream Team.
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: The story was they've lost focus of the two young
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: people losing their lives and uh, you know, and Nicole
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: was really incredible mom. And every morning, every morning, uh,
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: she take the kids to school and go running with
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: Chris Jenner and two or three of her other friends
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: every morning.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: So right, that was it.
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: And I, you know, I grew up when that guest.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: I was in Gretna Green where all the Kardashian sisters
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: are small girls, and they were, you know, jumping on
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: my bed, so, you know, with Justin and Sydney always
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: waking up Cato. And then they named the dog Cato,
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: and I thought that was an act of the Cato.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: The Akita was named because the kids wanted to be Cato.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: And I'm not saying that cocky evenything. I thought.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, that's yes.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: So it was really endearing.
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: And I think the biggest thing is living in Brentwood
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: is when you can find someone you can trust with
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: your kids, then then it's sort of a grand slam
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: for them, because you know, if I wasn't the babysitter,
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: I was labeled babysitter pool boy.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: I was never that.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: But if ever they needed help and I was available,
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: I always was there.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Now do you ever do you keep in touch with
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: them at all? Do you ever see them or talk?
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Nothing? No one at all?
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: It?
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: Uh, you know what that's like. I always think that's
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: like a dark I'm all about light. But not by
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: choice or anything. We just it just touch was lost
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: And I don't know what is going around in the lives,
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: but I they're wonderful, the best you.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Know for them.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's hard to be the Brown family and Kim
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: Goldan and fredk There. There are such good people right right.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: At what point did you realize that you you might
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: actually become a part of the case, like and not
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: just did you know immediately that this was like? How
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: did also how did you find out?
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Well?
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: I was there.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: That was the morning that all the detectives came to
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: my door.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: It was like five o five am and there was
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: a knock at my door and I just saw I
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: just opened the door and didn't even ask who they were.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: It was kind of dream State.
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: I said hey, and then they walked in and said,
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: we're la PD detectives, and they just immediately did their
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: business and they took flashlights, check if I drugs or anything,
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: and asked what I wore last night and checked my shoes.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: So the whole time, honestly, I was going, oh, my god,
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: did his plane crash because I knew we went to Chicago.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: Is there a plane crash?
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: And then the two of them stayed in the room
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: of an Etter and I believe Furman, and they just said,
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: asked me about my entire night, and then I said,
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: you know, I thought there was an earthquake.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: I heard this noise.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: And then they went back there and found the glove
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: and then they took me and Arnell into the main
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: house on the couch and I'm sitting on the couch
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: and our Nell's sort of where you are, and we
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: hear detective laying Tom Lang. He's on the phone and
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: he said, your daughter has been as he wanted to
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: tell the before the media found out, to let them
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: know this Seempsons is the Brown family, oh Nicole.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: So that's how I heard it.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: That didn't know anything until that overhearing that conversation and
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: then I knew immediately that this is going to be gigantic, obviously.
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: And the whole time I was thinking, oh my god,
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: Oh Jason, does he know he's in Chicago. You don't
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: associate that until they walked me out. And this is
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: after talking to me all morning and took me to
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: the police station. So they walked me out, and I'll
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: never forget to see had this wooden floor, so those
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: little pegs that are like dark pegs and a wooden
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: for really really nice. And they say, oh, when they're
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: walking out, be careful, watch off of the blood. And
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: then I looked down and I saw these blood drops
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: and then I was like, oh my god. And that
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: was the blood they found in the house.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Oh my god.
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: And I think in hindsight because I'm so addicted to
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: true crime, and I mean, how a detective would do
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: a question like that to see if you're aware of
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: stepping over but you look like, oh my god, and
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: then you know.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: It's like like, Okay, he doesn't know that.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, they're smart people.
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: But that was when things were And then I went
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: to the police station in Santa Monica and I was
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: there I think like eight hours and just sat in
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: a room and they questioned, they just get they weren't.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: It was more an interview.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: They were thinking that you were a suspect at the time, not.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: And they kind of got after the first hour, I
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: think they and they checked me out.
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: They were like they assume that you were guys okay,
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: and then like I said, I was in there forever
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: and they it was in there's a difference to an interrogation.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Interview. Mom was interviewed.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: They go over everything, and uh, the saddest part was
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: by my late mom. There's I had no phone calls
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: to make, and I remember I've got to find in
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: my house. It's a it's the half hour tape of
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: her bawling because it's calling over and over going because
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: no one knew who died.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: And they all know they didn't.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: Makes just a guy my ate. That whole thing. Family
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: kept calling and falling police call. So that was like
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: a twenty four hour period and that that was such
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: a powerful part of my life. Also to hear Mom's
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: voice to do that I can so then I get
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: to release the I mean, they said you can go
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: and all that And to this day, Vanetta's passed away.
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: I became great friends with Tom Lang and the detective
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: and most of the people in the trial. And like
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: I said, I'm not tooting my own horn. And I,
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: by the way, I don't this experience the the what
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: has happened in my life of even while I'm talking
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: to you today, and I just think of years ago
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: a private investigator Simpson hired. I didn't know this back
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: when I was living at Gretna Green Alla, and then
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: during the trial hired him and said, Hey, I'm so
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: and so uh this it. I said, I want you
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: to know that I was I've ben following you and
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: searching and interviewing people about you. I could not find
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: one bad thing, so I just wanted you to know that.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god, that's really nice here,
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: I said, look, look harder.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: No I didn't.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh wow, I said, I didn't even
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: know that he had a private eye after me right right,
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: because I think O J was thinking I got to
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: hire someone to see who's who am I because.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: The kids and I were wanted and then he wanted
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: to know.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: If I had any relationship with her, which I never did,
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: and all the magazines said I had.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: How did your relationship with him change before and after.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't see I moved out immediately, you did.
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: The only time I saw him was at a deposition
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: for the civil trial. But I was dating a woman
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: and golfing with all people, Norm MacDonald back in the
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: day at Brookside and Pasadena. So Norman and I are
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: golfing and the girl I'm dating is with Norm's friend
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: in the clubhouse and they comes out. She takes the
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: cart and goes to see what we're golfing, and she.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: Goes, I don't believe it's here. Oh, Jay's in the.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: Clubhouse, and then her friend's going there. She was hitting
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: on the girl I was. They he didn't know, and
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: he's all over trying to, you know, make a move
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: on her, which was his mo o because another girl
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: I had that came by one time.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: He's all over. It was like, oh my god, oh
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: j please.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: Oh my god. So you didn't story, so you didn't
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: see him after after there? Do you remember in the
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: at the trial when you were on when you were
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: on the stand, do you do you remember locking eyes
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: with him and like, how tell me about that?
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: Well, the first thing they said, can you you know
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: the prosecution says, do you see the defendant here? And
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: then you have to point and go yeah. So I
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: think I was six and a half days of testifying,
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: and I probably by day for something. I was in
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: my head, I'm going, oh, Jay, if you did this,
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: just in my head, I'm going just say you're because
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: there's so much pain that's going on in the with
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: the families. Yeah, and the more and more evidence was
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: coming out that I thought, I think, you know, I
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: can't prove it. And I think I knew that jury
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: loved him. They'd wave every day to him when I
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: was there.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Wow, wave.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: But so, yeah, you know what you thought? Did you
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: think he was guilty? I think it was.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: Pointing towards the guilty. Yeah.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: And the beginning, no, when they interviewed, I thought, there's
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: no way. And then I I was the question. I
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: didn't listen to the trial during other people's testimony. When
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: I was allowed to, I did it. When they had
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: bury Shack with the DNA, I just thought, oh my god,
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: this slam dunk. And then it just it's sort of
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: changed because people were like that, you know, we're so
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: into the freeway juice, juice, juice, and you just saw
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: the whole thing with more evidence coming out with the trial, it.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Was like, it's yeah, I remember that feeling as a
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: spectator of all of this, that there was a point
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: when everything turned and it went, oh, he is unequivocally
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: going to be found guilty. Yeah, and then it turned again.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I know. There's there's certain things that happened in
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: a trial.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: With the shots of Robert Kardashian looking surprised when the
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: verder comes out, and the pain that you could see
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: on Kim and Fred Goldman's face and the Browns, it was,
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: you know, it's it's sort of that's this moment's one
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: hundred year of that. It'll be talked about and compared.
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: It's the template for any trial that happens now. And
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: I you know, anytime there's like a major trial, I
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: do get calls from to get in my opinion, to say.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: You know, what's going on, And so I got it.
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: I really, at least I hated it because I was going, God,
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: I don't want to be associated until I said, I'm
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: not going to find it. I'm just going to embrace
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: true crime. And that's wh I start doing these shows.
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: And I started getting into the true crime and now
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: it's like the number one genre, and I think, I
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: really think I have a voice to talk about it.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: And of course all the stuff I'm shooting has been like,
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: oh my god, people are going they're loving it so and.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: I mean there was really something to be said. Again,
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: I say this every time. I just said it yesterday
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: in an interview that I feel like so many things
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: that we cover on this podcast are obviously about horrific
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: things that happen, and that everybody's sort of faced with
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: this issue when something happens, do you lean into your
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: life and sort of use that as a means to
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: move forward, or do you like crumble and you know,
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: cease to exist. And I'm just always really impressed when
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: people say this is the fabric of my life, Like,
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: this is what has happened, So I need to acknowledge
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: it and live with it and see give it some meaning.
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I think there's a everybody's got a blueprint
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: of their life. And the week two weeks before the
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: murders happened, you know, I had an agent and all
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: that I was going on really great readings and I
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: just read for a film the week before the murders happened,
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: and then I got called back and they test, they
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: put me on film, and I'll never get that. It
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: was for Dumb and Dumber and I was reading the
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: Harry Lloyd Parks had the long hair. But my buddy
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: Aaron Myerson produced the film and I was great friends
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: with Aaron and he was at New Line, one of
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: the executives there, and he said, you've got and I
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: hung out with the guy before we're buddies.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: He said, you've got to read the script. You're You're perfect.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: What da da da?
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: So he got me in and then after that I
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: was a caricature, and not that I would have even
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: got the part, but other stuff it was, but I.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Was getting the had a huge impact on.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: And I started getting greetings and then Cato was a
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: caricature and I was called in for things just I
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: could know when I cast and they just wanted to
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: meet me. It was nothing, you know, I was playing Cato.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: So but that was I said, there's a blueprint, and
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: now I kind of see thirty one years later that
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: it's opening.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Okay, I guess this is what I'm going to do now. Yeah,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, I really.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: Well and getting parts now like I did two films
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: I just booked, and I'm like, okay, I think people
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: can over they cannot see me as Cato because I'm
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: not putting Cato in them.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: And it took forever. Yeah, and I'm you know, what's
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: so funny.
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: I'm sure it's with you when you're doing your films
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: from Rocksbury. Everything you are the same, things around you change.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: I don't think I change. I think the things around
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: you and people change because they have the image I am.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: I love people, right, It's really interesting that people. Yeah,
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: people still want to talk to me about Clueless. Yeah,
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: and the rocks you know, like the matter of sort
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: of what you do in light, Like when you make
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: an imprint in some way, people are always going to
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: want to talk about it and you either have to
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: say okay or you're going to be sort of you know,
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: it's leading an unhappy life where you're constantly trying to
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: push something away.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: That's another connection.
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: So from Buns on Beverly, I went to the Boulevard
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: where Atlsia Silverston won't always work out. And then our
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: connection is Paul Rudd and the refrigerator scene said and
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: she says she's drinking my the the orange Juice Carton
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: and she goes, stop it Cato.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Oh that's right.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: I forgot, yes, And that was that.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: It was the it was iconic nineties thing like he's
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: the staying there, right, And that's our another connection we have.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: I really forgot about that.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: That's funny. Yep, yep.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: I mean that's we definitely were. Yeah, we are connected,
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: that's sure.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: So it's what did your what did your family think
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: about when they were watching all this unfold they were
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: still in Wisconsin. Were they just like, what are you
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: doing in that crazy y You.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: Know, I've got to really, really really I talk to
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: my family probably every other day, and very you know,
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: we're raised pretty strict Catholic, and so we had that.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: We had the connection of just always talking.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: And because in La everybody would come up to me
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: and go, hey, you really need a psychologist or a
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: psychiatrist to.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: See you must be going through stuff.
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: I said, No, I've gotten family, got My best friends
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: are still from all My best friends from high school
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: and college are very tight. They keep you humble, and
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: they also they're the best advice yep. And I'm thankful
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: because in hindsight, you kind of look at that in
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: your life. You go, God, I still have my same friends.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know a lot of people can say that, yes,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: that you it really means.
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: It's everything I mean to this day. It's over forty
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: four years of the same friends.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: That's amazing. All right, Let's talk a little bit about
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: the Ryan Murphy series The People voj which I thought
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: was so compelling and spectacular. But I want to know,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: did you did you feel like that it was true
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: to life or it was too dramatic? Like what did
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: they get right? And what do they get wrong?
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: It wasn't true to life. No, it was a lots
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: of embellishment.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: Because I go, if you go back and you can
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: go this I wrote. They gave me the screen of
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: the New York Daily News said will you write an
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: article on the first screener? So they gave me the
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: screener when it was coming out, and I thought, God,
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: it's a chance to kind of show people that they,
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: you know, kind of Kato can can.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Write something very servant.
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: So I wrote that and they loved it, and then
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: they asked they gave me all ten screeners. I wrote
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: ten articles, and then the second one gone the USA Today,
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: and I said, and third episode, they were putting me
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: in stuff. I said, now, it's too much cato, even
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: for Kato, because they were putting they were putting me
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: in scenes that I was never part of. And there's
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: no the day after all the families that came to
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: visit the then a SWAT team members that came by.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: I was there and the Swat came by, So I
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: wasn't there at all. I wasn't the people they the Kardashians,
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: they did a lot of stuff with Kardashians, but the
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: girl Kardashians they did because at that time, the Empire
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: in real life was really taking off, and so Ryan
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: Murphy kind of genius kept putting them in and that
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: was a huge draw of the series.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: That was what it was compelling, Sarah. I watched it
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: and it's huge.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: Ray. I think it got seventeen Emmy or at least
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: eight Emmys.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: I thought it was Yeah.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: The performance, yeah, just and and Billy Maguson never wanted
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: to meet with I thought, it's kind of weird that
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: I would, no matter what, would want to meet the
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: person even if you don't want to.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Who played you, He didn't want to meet you.
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: You didn't want to meet and then I saw him
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: on an interview. He said he didn't want to meet,
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: but he said all these great things of people that
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: around me that met me, and he said it would
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: take away from performance. But I heard nothing, but like
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: I said, about these good things and I'm not once again,
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: it makes me feel so wonderful. And I said, Okay,
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: I like this guy.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, yeah, and reason yeah.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: I think he was stuck with that. He's going to
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: do Spacoli from Fast Time, just my character in matter?
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: What about Nicole? Did you think that they portrayed her?
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: She's hardly I feel like she's not even a part
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: of that. That was devastating, I would imagine.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Which is what I wondered.
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: But if he did that to show that that it
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: never really became about the people, I don't know if
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: you thought that.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: So maybe he thought, like.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously she's not alive during the trial, so
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: they can't really put it. But it did feel like
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: I wanted to hear more about her, And you know.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that one is a tough one
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: because it was more entertainment. Then you had the documentaries
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: that are sort of true to the facts that kind of.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Happened do you where were you during the Bronco chase?
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: What were you doing? Are watching like all of us?
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I was.
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: I was actually watching the Bronco chase at friend's house
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: and all my friends are watching it. We're watching the
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: Nick Houston game too, and it was interrupted.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: So I could not understand that. As a New Yorker,
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: I could not understand.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: It exactly that I was kind of saying that people
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: I was with us, I was like, Okay, that's ac
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: cow People didn't know Struggle, it's a c Cowling's driving.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: There's then they said he had a gun and I said,
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: it is no possible by this guy's going to shoot
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: himself because he loves himself.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: And I think you thought that. You were like, right,
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: this is a is yeah.
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: And then I saw when the Bronco pulled up how
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: Jason went out there and the SWAT team kind of
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: pulled him away, and I was saying, they were good,
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: who's that? I said, well, that's the son Jason and
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: you know that so and then they you're not the
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: Ryan Murphy thing. It made it really big with the
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: swat team members all with the sniper's pointing right, but
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: there were there were swat there.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: But and you know that was just from my watching it.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: But yeah, it you look at this, you go this, No,
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: this really happened, and it really happened, right people cheering
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: on the Free It's like unbelievable.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: This was kind of the beginning of not only like
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: the courtroom involved with you know, people becoming obsessed. And
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: I feel like it was one of the first trials
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: when they allowed cameras, which was probably a gigantic mistake,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: but it really just inflated all of that in this
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: which allowed the public w could Arguably most people that
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: were standing on those overpasses with their science did not
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: know O. J. Simpson personally. So it was like this
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: way of the entire nation being growing.
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: People kept watching and want to be part of it.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: They'd go down to Brentwood, they'd go down to the Free.
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: They knew exactly because it was being broadcast the Chase,
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: so they knew where they could see it.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: And it was it was. It's honestly crazy.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: And if you think about it that, like you said,
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: it did start.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: It started.
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: Core TV started the shows on Seen and with the
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: burden approof like six other shows and three networks started
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: from a trial, because that was that it was going
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: to be. Trials are huge news. People love like.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: That is that people are so fascinated.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: I think it's because they look at that and they go, oh,
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: my life's not that bad and they relate to it.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: I think it's kind of the Homer Simpson, the whole
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: different Simpson.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: So it's kind of that Homer Simpson thing where you know,
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: everybody watches Homer and go they relate because the Homer's
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: got the worst life ever, and they kind of relate.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: They watch and go, my life's not that bad, right,
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: and they want to see other people. I think people
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: like to see other people in pain and to save
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: their life is better.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you were with Barbara Walters, which this was
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: news to me. I just learned this not romantically, although
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: there was this, but when the verdict was read, tell
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: me about that. What was that like and why were
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: you there?
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: And we were actually in Central City the we're sitting
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: in these chairs like in an auditorium. The I think
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: it was like the Diehard of the Noomacomie Plaza and
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: Nkotomi Plaza next to it, So people can kind of
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: relate in their head where it is so we're in
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: the central city and we're going to do an interview after.
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: But while the VERTIC's going on, I decided I don't
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: want to be interviewed live.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: She wanted to do live there.
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: I said, no, it's I do live it be And
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: then she asked me without the cameras on what I thought.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: And I said, I think they made a huge mistake.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: I whispered, and she said I do too. So that
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: was it. But I I.
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: Know, you know, the jury said one of the evidence
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: in that. But the jury they really liked him a lot.
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: And I think at the time of LA with the
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: Rodney King and everything was you know, it wasn't supposed
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: to be done in Santa Monica. It was done in downtown,
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: so I think all the elements sort of added up,
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: but it was going to be you know, the big thing.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: People were saying, it's like you could have videotaped it,
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: OJ would have got off. I mean, that's what people
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: were saying at that time, because it was.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: It was a it really does. I talked about this
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: with Keith too. How unfortunate it's like, for lack of
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: a better word, it was the timing of that because
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: they exploited a very real, horrible thing that had happened
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: with Rodney King and the racial tensions in the city
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: and the racist cops, like all those things were very real,
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: and they I feel like they exploited that for this
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: trial and made it about that once again.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: It was how you can form stuff for media, how
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: the news, the clips, and how people can go you
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: know what, OJ's going to be.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Innocent, yep.
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: And you know what's being worse is how they divided
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: when the verdict came out, how they divided black and white.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: And it just put LA fifteen fifteen, twenty years behind again,
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: right because it just divided everything. Yes, yeah it was,
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: and we're still it's.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: Still a big mess. Yeah it is. How did so
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: did you? Did you never talk to Oj again?
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Just the deposition? That was that deposition in the bathroom.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: And he Were you afraid of him after he was
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: let off?
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: I guess a little bit.
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: I just kept thinking, you know, the when it actually ended,
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: I was fearful that something could happen. I didn't know
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: where people stood, because some people loved me and then
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: some people hated me. I mean, incidents of being spit on.
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: There's incidents of putting twotsy suckers in my TUTSI pops
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: in my head and my hair. It's like from behind no,
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: I mean, weird things happened because people thought.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: It was your fault that he was let off, or
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: that they were mad that you were.
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: People thought that I didn't come say everything, that I
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: come through it all the truth, and I wasn't there.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: I didn't know. I thought I answered everything. I met
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: with Marshall Clark many times, and so I was one
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: and percent honest. But people, you know, you kind of
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: looked at it as a soap opera, and people thought
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: I was a character and I.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: Was in cato.
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: So it was I get it where they're mad, but
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: they don't know that I was one hundred percent honest
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: and that's it. So a lot of times people would say, well,
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: why did you look like a deer, you know in
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: the headlights. It's because I had so many reviews there
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: and I don't remember that question. When you say a question,
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: you think in your head, and so I'm looking, I
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: forget the cameras are there, and I'm thinking in my
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: head like that the question is this, So I get
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: I get okay.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: The cameras on mean, that's why I'm thinking. It makes
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: me look like.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: And she they referred to you as a hostile witness.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: Is that why? Like, what was that about?
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: Supposedly from finding out from other lawyers, it's that she
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: could question me in a different way.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: But from all the attorneys.
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: I met that that are very smart, smart attorneys.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: They said, the worst thing she could have done I
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: was her witness.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: This has been such a wild conversation and honestly we
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: are just getting into it. So we are going to
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: pick this right back up in our next episode.