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Sometimes There's Side Eye - Episode 15: Responsible Rescue · Sometimes There's Side Eye

0:13
Welcome to Sometimes There's Side Eye, a podcast about two
0:17
friends having real and unfiltered conversations about
0:20
dogs. And people listen as we talk
0:23
about our lives with dogs, training behavior, share some
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laughs and a whole lot of banter.
0:29
I'm Heather and I'm Christy. And what are we talking about
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today, Christy? This week we're going to talk
0:35
about Responsible Rescue, and let me tell you all, Christy is
0:39
so excited about this topic. I am.
0:43
I am. Oh man.
0:47
Already, to be fair, I poke fun at Christy about this because
0:53
it's a really difficult topic and it's emotionally charged.
0:57
Yeah. And so we'll just put the caveat
1:00
out right at the beginning that this is a difficult topic.
1:04
We are not saying we're experts in it.
1:07
These are our ideas about responsible rescue based on what
1:11
we've seen and experienced and our beliefs of what's right and
1:15
wrong. And I will say we've discussed
1:19
this, we've discussed it. Oh my God, Time ad nauseam.
1:22
Yeah, we've we've discussed it over the last four years.
1:27
Well, probably since we were friends, honestly.
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And even recently as we were discussing doing this episode, I
1:36
wouldn't say we are aligned perfectly, but that's what makes
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this podcast different and and I feel like more fun.
1:45
Maybe. I don't know.
1:46
We hope so. We don't always have the same
1:50
exact views. And that's Okay.
1:52
And that's why we want to have these discussions, because being
1:56
friends with Heather makes me think in a different way, and I
1:59
hope her being friends with me makes her think through things
2:02
differently as well. I think we challenge each other,
2:05
and that was part of why we wanted to start the podcast was
2:08
to challenge how people think and to give them differing
2:12
perspectives and to hear us maybe have differing
2:15
perspectives but still be able to be friends.
2:19
Absolutely, yeah. And so you might have different
2:21
perspectives than us, but we hope that we challenge some of
2:24
your ideas and just make you think through this topic.
2:28
So yeah, and we're not flying blind here.
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I mean, I adopted my first dog from a municipal shelter in
2:36
2004. And I've been a rescue volunteer
2:41
for private nonprofit rescues. I've been a county shelter
2:45
volunteer. I've been deployed by HS US,
2:49
Christy. You can, you know, talk about
2:51
some of your experience. So we aren't people who are
2:54
flying blind here. These are, these are experiences
2:57
that we've had and watched and kind of how we've started to
3:01
think about things over the years and then just reading and
3:04
learning and, you know, all that over time.
3:07
Yes, yeah, our experiences definitely shape us.
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And yes, and shape. How we see things so definitely
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not playing blind here So first of all let's define so we'll
3:20
we'll talk about two different things sheltering or shelters
3:24
when we say shelters we're talking about open intake
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shelters so your county animal care and control those types of
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large municipal municipal. Shelters and then rescue is a
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little different in that rescues are typically a nonprofit,
3:40
private nonprofit, and often times they're linked together.
3:43
Rescues often pull from the shelter.
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But know that there is a difference.
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And so as we're talking about that, I just want to kind of
3:50
define that right up front for absolutely.
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So that there's no confusion. If and we'll try to be clear.
3:57
And if we're talking about rescue, private rescue, we'll
4:00
talk we'll say rescue. And if we're talking about a
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shelter, we will say shelter. So let's dive in.
4:08
We wanna start out by saying not all rescues are the same, and
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that's why we felt like it was important to do this episode.
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We feel that there are ethical rescues and then we feel like
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there are some rescues that are not needing the mark of.
4:25
Taking care of dogs in the way that we would expect a rescue
4:29
too. So we wanted to kind of address
4:32
those issues well. And we also to me I think it's
4:37
really important that we support rescues who are doing a good
4:42
job. We want rescues who are trying
4:46
their best and setting the bar really high to be the rescues
4:50
who are getting the funding and are able to continue to do what
4:53
is the good work they're doing. We want everyone to to know that
4:59
there is a difference between ethical and unethical rescue and
5:03
when you're looking for a new dog and you're you're like, I'm
5:07
set on rescuing and that's the route you're going to go.
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We want people to understand that it is important that you do
5:15
research and that you're supporting the rescues that are
5:18
trying their best so that they can continue to do a really good
5:22
job. Yeah, And I know a lot of people
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say, I mean, as long as a dog is getting saved, why doesn't
5:28
matter. But it does because it does.
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We want morality, yes, to be hand in hand with rescue, and we
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want ethics to be hand in hand with rescue.
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And if you support a rescue that's not ethical and not doing
5:42
things right, then you're putting your money where it
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could help more dogs. And the dogs are suffering.
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The dogs are suffering. Because if a rescue is
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continuing to make money and they're not ethical, then the
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level of care that we expect to see and how those dogs are
6:00
treated and taken care of is not acceptable by any means.
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And if that rescue continues to get funds, then guess what?
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They get to continue to take in more and more dogs.
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And those dogs, I do believe in many situations truly are
6:13
suffering. And that's a problem.
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Just like everybody is against puppy mills, we need to band
6:20
together and be against irresponsible rescuing as well.
6:24
Yeah, do we want to jump in with what our thoughts are on
6:30
Cornerstones of Ethical Rescue? Absolutely, yeah.
6:35
Start us out. Oh my goodness, I get to start.
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Oh, I feel so special. OK, so it was you or me.
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I'm going to use an example to start off.
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OK. I'm going to use the example of
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when we adopted cash. When we adopted cash, it was
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from a rescue in Arizona. We had lived in Arizona for
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about 6 weeks. We still had Pennsylvania
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driver's licenses and had not even turned over everything.
7:03
And that may sound like a random point, but it'll make sense
7:06
later. So we cruise in to this rescue.
7:10
We found him on Pet Finder and his description and bio really
7:15
struck an emotional chord with me and my husband.
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So we contacted the group and I said we would really love to
7:22
come and meet him. Can we make an appointment?
7:25
We went to see him about 24 hours later.
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We drove up to the private home and everything was nice.
7:34
It was clean, everything looked great.
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We met Cash and my husband played with him and he was
7:41
interacting with other dogs and everything looked good.
7:44
But we also had a situation in our home as everyone knows where
7:48
we had two dogs that didn't get along so we didn't want to rush
7:53
into a scenario, right? We had not planned to take him
7:57
home that day. We had driven our little car and
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he was a Rottweiler. We meet him.
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We love him. We tell her that we would like
8:05
to go home. We would like to think about it.
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He had been in rescue for 24 hours at that point.
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He had come in, They put him on Pet Finder.
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I reached out right away. He had not been to a
8:16
veterinarian. He had had no testing
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whatsoever. OKI tell her that we want to go
8:24
home and think about it. And she told me that there was
8:27
someone else coming tomorrow, and if we wanted him, we had to
8:30
decide right now. So I felt pressured and we said,
8:36
OK, we're going to do it. We filled out.
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I mean, I'm going to call it an application, but it was a piece
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of paper. She takes our information, which
8:48
was a Pennsylvania driver's license did not have.
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We had no documentation that showed our current address that
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we were even residents of the state.
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OK, we fill out this sad little piece of paper.
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I pay her the money. We make arrangements to pick him
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up the next day and we leave. And that was it.
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I came the next day. I picked him up.
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I took him home. That was it.
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So he was not neutered when you received, he was.
9:15
He was not. He did not have.
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He had no veterinary care. Yep, he had been in their
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program. He was a puppy.
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He was about 8 months old. Basically.
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He was with them for 48 hours. All said and done.
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So let's think about this. I am whoever.
9:34
I could have made-up anything. You are now adopting out an
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intact male Rottweiler to somebody, handing them over and
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sending them on their way. Now for me, I'm an educated
9:54
person on the breed, so I have specific reasons why I actually
9:58
wanted to leave him intact for health reasons.
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So to me it was a huge plus. I was like, this is amazing.
10:04
I am a responsible person. I would never in a million years
10:07
breed him. But the fact that they did it is
10:11
unbelievable to me. And then we ended up finding out
10:16
because of course we took him to the vet that he had Giardia.
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So now we had exposed our other dogs to Giardia unknowingly, and
10:27
that was the next time I had communication with her.
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I emailed her to let her know that he had tested positive for
10:32
Giardia and that she needed to be aware because she had other
10:36
dogs he was interacting with. And absolutely it's an exposure
10:39
problem. And the correspondence was
10:42
essentially like, oh, that sucks.
10:44
Definitely didn't come from here.
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Good luck. Where would it have come from
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then? I mean, I guess like if your
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other house, Christy. Magically, yeah.
10:54
Had Giardia that nobody knew about.
10:56
Yeah, Yeah. And these the other things that
10:59
had occurred, I'm going to say that the likelihood of it coming
11:04
from that side versus my side, yeah, I relate this O and we
11:09
paid a $375 adoption fee and we had they had him for less than
11:14
48 hours, I would absolutely qualify them as flippers.
11:19
Absolutely. So just to define a flipper is
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somebody typically in rescue, although they don't have to be
11:27
who takes in puppies because puppies are easy to get adopted
11:31
back out and they sell the puppies and so there are some
11:35
pluses and minuses to this. There's downfalls and and plus
11:39
sides for rescue. The plus side is it's an easy
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turnover for rescues, which is why it's done and.
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They can get a puppy for next to nothing, or or maybe half the
11:53
puppy surrendered free of charge and then they flip it and sell
11:57
it to someone. So they make, you know, 100%
12:01
profit. Whatever they get in is just all
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profit. Responsible.
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Rescue is instead going to take that dog, that puppy, vet it,
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and then make sure that it's healthy, spay and neuter.
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So you should be getting a lot of.
12:18
Bang for your buck. Honestly, with a puppy, I know
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my one friend was like, well, it's like a $400.00 adoption
12:25
fee. I was like, OK, let's lay this
12:27
out. How much is it for you to spay
12:30
your dog? And so then we researched that
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and she was like, oh, it's $250 for me just to spay my dog.
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And I was like, OK and then how much are the shots?
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Ohh, well those are another hundred.
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And I was like, OK, so you're basically donating $50.00 to the
12:44
yeah and the rescue, okay. With that, the rescue has to
12:47
house the dogs, the mom and the puppies, and they have to take
12:51
care of everybody. And there are many rescues that
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we personally know who are doing socialization protocols.
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And they're going above and beyond to make sure that the
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moms aren't stressed, the puppies aren't stressed, even
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though they're in a rescue type of environment.
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So people are doing it ethically.
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They're going above and beyond. That is not what we're talking
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about when we're talking about a rescue.
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Who's flipping this rescue? And I use that in air quotes
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that cash came from. They are literally flipping dogs
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to make a profit. Now let's think about what they
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actually have invested in Cash's adoption.
13:29
They had the time and gas that it took them to go and pick him
13:33
up. Actually, I believe he was
13:34
surrendered. So I don't even think they went
13:36
anywhere for him now that I'm thinking about it.
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So they had like 2 meals. So they had like 2 meals in him.
13:43
Yep. And a little terrorism to get
13:47
him adopted by me. And that was their investment.
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And it worked because he came to us and he had a fantastic home.
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But what if I hadn't been who I am?
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What if the supposed person, I don't even know if that was
14:04
real, that was supposed to come and see him the next day had
14:07
been. Oh, and by the way, he came in
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with his sister and she was getting adopted out intact as
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well. Just forgot about that.
14:14
What if I had not been responsible?
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Cash was a nice looking dog. You could have gone and taken
14:19
and bred him and made some money off those puppies.
14:23
That is not an example of anything ethical or responsible,
14:27
no? No contributing to further
14:31
rescue needs, like further dogs needing rescued.
14:35
Just everything is is just an all situation.
14:38
It's all all bad. Yeah.
14:40
Yeah. Now that we gave that little
14:43
scenario, here are some things that I expect to see from an
14:47
ethical or responsible rescue. And again, we're talking about a
14:50
private rescue group that's a nonprofit or five O 1C3.
14:54
Well, I expect them to have a nonprofit status.
14:57
To have a 5O1C3 status. I would not unless it's a
15:01
rehoming, private rehoming situation that we already
15:05
discussed in a previous episode. I would not go to a person who
15:11
is continuously adopting and rehoming or adopting out dogs
15:17
and adopt A dog from them unless they have a 5O1C3 status.
15:22
Do you want to talk further about that?
15:23
You're shaking your head. Yeah, I agree.
15:27
I think the five O 1C3 status is so important.
15:30
I am thinking of 1 rescue in Arizona that started out as a
15:35
middleman. He's a radio DJ and so he had a
15:40
lot of connections. And so he started with just,
15:44
hey, my friend really wants a golden retriever puppy.
15:47
And this person has reached out and said, hey, I know you love
15:50
dogs. We have this golden retriever
15:52
puppy that we cannot handle. And he was like, hey, let me
15:55
make this connection. That's making a connection.
15:57
That's. Right.
15:58
Once he did it a few times, then everyone.
16:01
So then at one point he was like.
16:03
We're not a 501C3 yet, but we are working through because it
16:07
takes time. It does take time, so there are
16:10
some exceptions. If they could explain why, maybe
16:13
they're working through that. But for the most part, they
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should be a nonprofit status, which goes to the next point,
16:21
which is transparency. If you are going somewhere to
16:25
potentially adopt A dog and age doesn't matter.
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I'm just going to say dog ranging from any age.
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If you're going to a group to adopt A dog and you feel like
16:36
they're hiding something or they don't want to answer your
16:39
questions directly or you just get the vibe that they're not
16:43
transparent. Their social media isn't
16:45
transparent. Anything like that.
16:47
That's a red flag for me. I just what are you trying to
16:51
hide? And for me, if I'm going to
16:54
adopt A dog, I want to get a good match for my family so it
16:58
can be a lifelong companionship. And so I want to feel like the
17:02
group that I'm going to understands the dog and
17:05
understands everything about what I'm going for.
17:08
And if they're being shady and I feel like they're not answering
17:14
my questions directly, that makes me feel bad about the
17:18
whole thing. Because if they can't even
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answer about their nonprofit status with an open dialogue,
17:24
then what else are they hiding? Yeah, definitely.
17:29
So there are some rescues and I'll put that in quotation
17:34
purchase from puppy Mill auctions.
17:37
So there are there's auctions for dogs.
17:42
And I understand their thought process.
17:45
It like let me say I am pretty good at trying to connect the
17:51
dots because I think people are typically rational.
17:54
And so I try to connect the dots of what are they thinking and
17:57
what were their intentions. You are very good at that.
18:00
The intentions behind it, in their mind they are rescuing
18:05
these puppy mill dogs typically not even puppies, typically full
18:09
grown dogs that are bred out or. The puppy mill no longer wants
18:13
stuff or it might not even be a puppy mill, but it's typically
18:16
puppy mill type dogs. So all that to say there are
18:19
rescues that go and bid on these dogs and bring them into rescue.
18:25
I understand in their mind they are saving these dogs from a
18:29
worse fate. They are also funding puppy
18:34
mills. Like, let's not.
18:36
Lead around the Bush. That's what your money is going
18:39
to. So if we're fighting against
18:42
them and yet we are funding them, to me that's that's not
18:48
OK. And what I found is because I
18:52
have I have some friends who did adopt A dog that we are pretty
18:57
sure but we know she came from a puppy mill and she was a breeder
19:00
but when they asked about. How they've got the dog and
19:05
where she came from and the rescue, even though they're well
19:09
known and well respected, was very dodgy with their questions.
19:14
Wouldn't answer what kind of conditions or how they received
19:18
the dog or what the agreement was with the breeder or
19:22
anything. And the more they tried to dig
19:25
the last information they got and it was like, well, all you
19:28
need to know is we took this dog from.
19:31
A puppy mill situation and now she's not in that.
19:34
And we brought several dogs in from that situation and that's
19:39
all they would say. Now other rescues will say
19:41
things like we got this dog, we know the Breeders in the area,
19:46
we've some, hey, if you ever have a situation you can't take
19:50
care of a breeder or you no longer want them in your
19:53
breeding program. Will you surrender them to us?
19:56
So just because it's coming from a breeding situation doesn't
19:59
mean the rescue has done anything wrong.
20:01
And because. Surrendering is very different
20:05
than the rescue purchasing dogs. And just to be clear, when
20:10
Christy's saying breeder, she's referring to a female dog who is
20:13
used to breed other dogs. She doesn't mean breeder.
20:17
Yeah, to be clear on that. But I see this happen.
20:23
Well, I haven't personally seen it, but I've done enough
20:25
research and reading about it. But it does happen.
20:28
And it's not just puppy mills. It'll happen with commercial
20:30
breeders as well when they're auctioning off.
20:34
And I know we're in the West Coast, but this is a very real
20:36
situation in the Midwest. And then also on the East Coast
20:40
where puppy mills and commercial breeding operations are more
20:44
prominent. I just want you guys to know
20:46
that. I know on the West Coast this
20:48
might be a little bit of a foreign concept for people, but
20:52
here's the thing that I want people to remember supply and
20:57
demand. If commercial breeders and puppy
21:03
mills are continuing to make money, they are going to
21:08
continue to exist. That is reality.
21:12
So if a rescue is going to their auctions and handing over cash,
21:18
they are saving that dog on the backs of every other dog that
21:25
comes through that operation and I have a major problem with
21:29
that. Yeah, yeah.
21:31
Commercial breeding facilities and puppy mills do not care
21:35
where they get their money from. They just care that they get
21:40
their money. Yeah, So.
21:43
When it comes from rescue, they don't care.
21:45
It just funds their operation, and that's not OK.
21:49
And the reason that they're auctioning off these Mamas is
21:52
because they can't make money off of them anymore.
21:55
So for them, it's like, oh, we already made all the money off
21:58
of them and that we can. Let's just see what we can get
22:01
for them, hence why they're auctioned and they'll get every
22:04
last red cent out of them that they can.
22:07
But guess where that money goes? To buy another mom and start
22:11
producing? Or to use another dog that they
22:14
already have and build another wire cage on top of another one
22:18
and make another breeder. So it's so much bigger than just
22:25
saving that one dog who's in front of you.
22:27
And that idea absolutely trickles down to these unethical
22:34
rescues that are flipping dogs, that are keeping dogs in
22:38
terrible situations, that are not evaluating dogs, that don't
22:43
have an understanding of behavior, that have the dogs in
22:47
hoarding situations that all trickles down in my book.
22:51
They're all on the same blacklist, definitely, yeah.
22:57
And the more we support them, the more they can continue to do
22:59
it. Yes, absolutely.
23:02
And so I would say maybe the next thing is you mentioned
23:05
quite a few like flipping and hoarding.
23:07
So I I would like to go to hoarding because again, the
23:12
heart probably started in the right place.
23:15
I'm going to help this dog and these dogs and just one more and
23:20
just one more and just one more. Even though I don't have space
23:24
and it is hard to look at rescues who say we do not have
23:28
room. But we'd really like to rescue
23:31
this dog and then they take the dog without the room.
23:36
Unfortunately, if you don't have room, it's not ethical for you
23:39
to take on another dog. If you don't have funding to do
23:44
the vet care, it's not ethical to take that on as a rescue.
23:49
And I and I get it. It's such a tightrope that you.
23:53
You Walk and rescue of Can we do one more?
23:57
Do we have the funding for one more?
23:59
Do we have the resources? Yeah.
24:01
Do we have the manpower? You're walking a fine line here,
24:06
Christy. You're walking a lot fine line.
24:09
I know. It's walking a fine.
24:11
I wish you guys could see Christy's face right now because
24:13
she's struggling, because we. Here's the thing, we know so
24:19
many people who are in rescue and their heart is bleeding
24:24
every single moment of the day. And what we know that it is not
24:32
as simple as just, oh, you don't have the resources, Don't take
24:38
that dog. Because I know and Christy knows
24:41
that you're getting 75 emails and 62 text messages and 13
24:46
phone calls to take that one dog and you are stretching yourself
24:52
to the absolute brink. We get it, we understand it.
24:57
But I still say that there have to be ethical standards when it
25:02
comes to knowing where your line is and when you have exhausted
25:06
your resources and you have to take a pause.
25:09
Yeah, Otherwise the dogs suffer. Yeah.
25:13
Heather and I both know several rescues that are warehousing
25:18
dogs. That's a term we use in rescue
25:21
to warehouse dogs, where dogs are just being kept but nothing
25:27
more. They're being kept and they're
25:28
being kept alive, but they're not being adopted out.
25:30
They're not. Rotating through and they're not
25:33
getting the veterinary care, the socialization, the mental
25:38
stimulation that they need to live healthy lives.
25:43
Sometimes it's, sometimes it's crueler.
25:50
My vet one time told me there are fates far worse than death.
25:55
When I had a when I had a Hospice foster, when my Hospice
26:00
fosters. And I was trying to decide if it
26:03
was time and and think and she when she said that, I thought
26:06
wow, this so applies to warehousing with dogs and
26:11
hoarding situations and and so many things.
26:15
So we know it's not black and white, but also if you go and
26:19
there's dogs stacked on top of each other or there's fifty dogs
26:23
in a residential home, that's that's a hoarding situation like
26:27
that should be a red flag. The Humane Society is not
26:32
looking kindly on you, OK? And if you are in the situation
26:38
where you are that overwhelmed, there is no way that those dogs
26:42
are getting everything that they need.
26:44
And absolutely neglect is on the table.
26:47
So now we've gone from oh, you're a rescue to oh, you're an
26:52
unethical rescue to wow, you need to be looked at for.
26:58
Abuse for abuse, yeah. I think one important
27:02
cornerstone is cleanliness too. Yes, that's a good one.
27:07
If you walk into a rescue and there is poop and kennels and
27:12
there is things smeared and just look around at the cleanliness
27:19
of the situation, yeah, I mean that's.
27:22
Gonna tell you a lot. It is.
27:24
Or if the group does not allow you indoors at their facility,
27:31
if they have a facility or a main foster home or something
27:34
like that. Okay can I just like give a
27:37
little a little story. So there is a local person who
27:44
is not a 5O1C3 because her status was revoked and she
27:50
continues to do. I think even saying that she's a
27:55
rescue is not even fair. She continues to privately
27:59
rehome dogs and people continue to take dogs from her and her
28:04
home is such a travesty. The smell alone.
28:13
Her neighbors have made complaints to the HOA.
28:18
There's barking dogs. It if you see the photos that
28:23
she posts, you can see feces in the background.
28:27
I mean, seriously, it is not that difficult to get a gut read
28:35
on something like that, OK? And she is able to continue to
28:40
do this because people keep taking dogs from her and giving
28:45
her money, and she's taking that money and she's turning it into
28:51
furthering this. I don't even want to say it's
28:54
not business. It's a business.
28:56
She's continuing in business in a completely unethical way, on
29:02
every level, on the backs of these dogs.
29:06
And so if you look at a photo and the house looks like it's a
29:11
complete wreck and there's poop on the wall and it's, I mean,
29:17
seriously, stop. Just stop.
29:19
Abort. No.
29:21
If you drive up to a house to meet a dog and you can smell
29:28
from the front walk, stop. Don't do it.
29:33
Like just let's follow our gut in scenarios like this.
29:37
Yeah, and and I'm not talking about.
29:40
Let me be clear, that was an extreme example.
29:43
Puppies poop along. Oh my gosh, yes.
29:46
And so sometimes that. That tracks through like puppies
29:50
are gross, you guys puppies are so gross.
29:53
Like ohh Christie hating on puppies.
29:55
Just kidding. Just kidding.
29:57
Puppies are so cute. Use common sense.
30:00
Use common sense, Yeah. And you know something else I
30:04
wanna say? And this is like, I'm trying not
30:06
to tangent here, but I think most people assume that if
30:13
someone is doing something like this woman is that the
30:18
authorities will certainly take care of her, that the Humane
30:22
Society and animal cops are coming to her door and they're
30:25
shutting her down, that someone is watching and making sure that
30:29
this can't continue. Do not assume that there are
30:32
tons of people who are trying to shut this person down and it's
30:35
not happening. She's doing just enough to hide,
30:39
just enough to be able to continue.
30:42
So don't assume that just because of rescue or someone is
30:47
putting dogs out there that oh, the authorities are certainly
30:50
keeping tabs on these people and making sure everything is done
30:54
ethically. Not the case.
30:56
Yeah, and. If you see something that seems
31:01
off, report it. Absolutely.
31:04
If you're not, nobody else is either.
31:06
Yeah, and they might need one more report.
31:08
They might need one more person who is unrelated to the
31:12
situation to come across and say, hey, I saw something that's
31:16
really not OK. Yeah, and I think a lot of
31:21
rescues start off really well and then get in over their heads
31:27
sometimes. And then it's tough to get back
31:29
out. Yeah, because compassion fatigue
31:31
is real. We we need to.
31:33
Talk about it. Yeah, that's a very real thing.
31:37
And here's reality. I was compassion fatigue.
31:41
Yeah, it's just okay. Yeah, I was going to do it.
31:44
So compassion fatigue is essentially where if you're.
31:48
I mean it can happen to nurses, it can happen to doctors, it can
31:51
happen to anyone where you're essentially just exhausted.
31:55
You are have spent every resource that you have mentally,
31:58
physically, emotionally and you just cannot keep going.
32:03
And compassion fatigue can affect your decision making
32:06
skills. It can affect the way that you
32:10
are moving forward in your life. It can do so many things and
32:15
it's very real. So we do understand that, But I
32:19
think that's also part of, oh, I want to run and rescue oh, this
32:24
is my dream. Sit down, think about what your
32:27
ethics are. Write that shit down.
32:31
Put it up on the wall. Make sure you check in with
32:34
yourself. Follow it as you learn, Make
32:37
adjustments, but make sure you're checking in with yourself
32:40
and you're making sure that you're well as you continue
32:43
this. And my point of kind of going,
32:46
talking about that was I used to be a shelter volunteer.
32:50
I used to go to our municipal shelter and volunteer and I got
32:54
to a point where I wasn't feeling good about it and there
33:00
are a lot of reasons for that. It wasn't the shelter
33:02
specifically, it was a lot of personal reasons.
33:05
It was a lot of things I had seen over time in the shelter
33:09
and rescue in different areas of my life.
33:12
And I just got to a point where it wasn't the right thing for me
33:17
anymore and I didn't feel like I was doing the dogs or the
33:23
community justice by continuing to go and volunteer.
33:28
I had hit the wall. And we need to pay attention to
33:33
that and we need to have a support system around us to
33:38
check in on that and make sure that we continue to be well.
33:43
Because honestly, great. You run a rescue empire and you
33:47
are literally dying inside every single day.
33:51
And you're not. Well, that's a problem too.
33:58
That is one other thing that we really like to see when it comes
34:04
to ethical rescue is support. What that support looks like can
34:10
honestly be nothing. Maybe you don't need anything
34:12
from them throughout the dog's life.
34:14
Or maybe you have things like I had happen with my Lucy where we
34:18
had some behavioral issues and we really did need support.
34:22
We were new, newer owners that we needed some guidance and we
34:27
went back to her rescue and we asked for that.
34:30
And throughout her entire lifetime they offered us
34:33
support, even when we moved across the country.
34:36
And actually, when Lucy passed away at 11, I emailed them and
34:39
let them know that she had passed and we talked back and
34:42
forth. So I really do like to see
34:47
ethical rescue equals support for that dog throughout its
34:52
lifetime and for their family, because in addition to, it just
34:57
seems like the way things should go.
35:00
If that group is supporting the family and what they need, that
35:05
also means that it could be something really small.
35:08
But that dog stays with their family.
35:10
And if that dog's staying with their family, they're not coming
35:12
back to the rescue, they're not going back into the shelter
35:15
system. And it could be something super
35:17
small that that family needs advice on, and that support
35:22
makes the difference in that dog's lifetime.
35:25
And I will say, we always hope that.
35:29
Whoever this dog gets adopted to, that's their forever family,
35:33
yes, but rescues who stick behind their dog like who stick
35:39
with their dog and are a safe place to land.
35:42
That's important. And I know in Arizona we have
35:46
some rescues that are well known and bigger rescues who will take
35:52
dogs that seem great and then? If they come back, they'll ship
35:56
them right back over to the municipal shelter rather than
36:01
dealing with behavioral issues or health issues, things like
36:04
that. They put that back on the
36:06
community to try to deal with, and I don't think that's.
36:09
I don't agree with that. I don't agree with it either and
36:14
their take is. Well, we adopted this dog out as
36:17
a puppy and now you can expect us to take every behavior issue
36:21
back with, yes, all the dogs we adopt out, but I do think that's
36:25
a pillar of being a responsible rescue is standing behind your
36:30
dogs and standing behind them, even if it means saying this
36:36
dog's no longer safe for the community.
36:38
Yes, maybe at no fault of of anyone.
36:42
Maybe it was just wired wrong or what, but making those difficult
36:46
calls instead of transferring them to the municipal shelter to
36:51
land on them. And when you've gotten the
36:55
adoption fee for that dog and there are absolutely rescues
36:59
within our community that we personally know that adopt out
37:04
puppies that even if they at three years old come back and
37:10
they have some sort of issue or no issue at all, no fault of
37:14
their own, they end up not being able to stay with their family.
37:17
They take them back. That's it.
37:19
It's their responsibility through the lifetime of the dog.
37:23
And to me, I completely agree with Christy that is what's
37:26
ethical and that is in my mind when you're thinking, oh, I want
37:32
to have a rescue. Not only are you taking in the
37:35
dogs that are right in front of your face today, what if three
37:40
of those dogs have to be returned to you in a month's
37:44
time for whatever reason? That responsibility falls on you
37:48
as well. So that goes back to the
37:51
resources and having a good network, and it also goes back
37:55
to why we want to make sure that the ethical rescues are the ones
37:59
that we're supporting. I will say one of the rescues
38:03
that I fostered for is no longer.
38:07
In business? No, that's not right.
38:09
Right. It's just no longer.
38:10
It is a business. A nonprofit is a business.
38:12
Yeah, so she she's no longer running a rescue.
38:16
However, she made a commitment to these dogs while she was in
38:20
rescue and she has maintained her condition.
38:24
Really. Which is really amazing.
38:28
Wow, in my opinion. In fact, last week she had two
38:31
dogs come back. In the same week, she's no
38:34
longer running a rescue, yet she has kept her connections, is
38:39
able to ask people if they would foster for her still and she
38:43
diligently works to rehome these dogs because she said in my
38:47
contracts it said you've returned the dog to me and I am
38:51
standing by that. Yes, that's a big step.
38:54
So I'm saying if an individual can do that when she has retired
39:00
from the game. And then these bigger rescues
39:04
can also do that. So she is a person who I would
39:07
be like, hey, do you can, who do you now consider ethical?
39:10
And that's who I want to support.
39:11
You're not in the game anymore. Okay.
39:14
Who do you support? Because that's that's amazing.
39:17
And that is really what things should look like.
39:22
Yeah, I just need to say again, there is a line between ethical
39:29
and unethical. And my mind is just swirling
39:32
with all of these examples of people that I have met over the
39:36
past two decades where it's like, I just sit here and I'm
39:40
like, wow, they're doing it right.
39:42
It's hard as fuck, but they're doing it right.
39:45
They are putting the animals and the humans at the top of their
39:52
priority list and they are busting their butts to do it as
39:55
well as possible. It doesn't mean it's perfect
39:57
because there is no perfect and because we're human and we make
40:01
because we're. Human Anytime there's humans
40:03
involved, there's going to be absolutely.
40:05
And that's just part of it, absolutely.
40:07
But then there's these other examples swimming around in my
40:10
head where I'm like, Oh my God, you're taking on so many dogs.
40:16
There's no way you can take care of them all.
40:18
You have them stacked up in your house.
40:20
You take the worst cases so that you can get the sob story, and
40:24
you can turn that into bringing in money to which you are taking
40:30
in even more animals, and then you're not adopting them out.
40:36
And that's the flip side of it. If you're looking at a rescue
40:40
and they're not moving dogs, they're not adopting out dogs.
40:45
Perfectly adoptable dogs. That is a question mark in my
40:50
mind, yeah. And it's not always necessarily
40:54
a bad thing because some, some rescues do move slower.
40:58
And I understand that because oh, for sure, the social media
41:02
presence. I know I started getting
41:04
questions about, well, why has Julius been in rescue for nine
41:08
months And I was able to say, you know, he probably doesn't
41:11
have the exposure on social media that other rescues do.
41:14
It's a smaller rescue and they want to make sure that the right
41:19
home is is found. Yeah, so because Julius did have
41:23
applications, it's not like it that's the thing.
41:28
It it's not. But he did and he did have meet
41:32
and greets. It's not like I'm thinking of a
41:35
rescue that I've adopted. Dogs from that.
41:41
A perfectly good dog that I owned who was absolutely amazing
41:48
and sat for years. There's no excuse for it.
41:52
Dog social, people, social, Sat in rescue for years.
41:57
There's absolutely no reason for it.
42:00
That's the type of stuff that I'm talking about.
42:03
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
42:04
And so ask those questions like why haven't, why hasn't this
42:09
star been adopted? What is preventing some of the
42:12
movement and and some rescues? Do take our dogs.
42:17
For sure. And they take more time.
42:19
And they take more time. But some rescues take perfectly,
42:24
wonderfully sociable dogs and hold on to them for years for no
42:29
reason. 2 1/2 years. So, yeah, so definitely ask
42:34
those questions. Look at the timeline, too.
42:38
And I think that goes back to the transparency point too.
42:41
Because you know, for Julius, for example, if somebody came to
42:46
you and said, hey Christy, why is Julius taking nine months?
42:48
Well, what did you answer with? Well, first of all, he was a
42:51
very large dog. Second of all, he had a couple
42:55
meet and greets. A few of them he really botched.
42:58
Sorry, Julius. And you were able to be
43:01
transparent for all the reasons why Julius took a while to get
43:06
adopted. That open transparency is all
43:09
we're talking about and all we're looking for.
43:12
Whereas if you go to somebody and you're like, hey, this dog's
43:14
been in rescue for 2 1/2 years, why?
43:17
And you're looking at the dog and she's amazing and they are
43:21
sort of dodgy and don't want to give you a good reason.
43:23
That makes me kind of question. Yeah.
43:26
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think what you said
43:30
earlier too, is a great cornerstone of putting people
43:35
and dogs as a priority. I don't think rescue should be
43:40
adopting out dangerous dogs. Agreed.
43:44
And it feels insane to have to say that, doesn't it?
43:49
Feels so stupid to say that out loud, but it's happening and
43:59
there's so many times that I've had discussions with other
44:02
volunteers and we've said I don't want that dog living next
44:06
to me. What would happen if that dog
44:09
got out? It could kill someone or it
44:11
would definitely kill my dog. I don't want these unsafe dogs
44:17
who are truly dangerous in society.
44:21
And I'm not talking about dogs. You need to manage.
44:24
Look, there are, there are wonderfully purebred dogs and
44:29
totally rescue mutt that need management.
44:45
It's tough. And I'm not talking about that.
44:35
I'm talking about truly dangerous dogs.
44:38
And I don't think, I think sometimes the rescues, man, it
44:44
is a tough subject. It is.
44:47
It really is. So I think what you're trying to
44:51
say is that. For rescues, that it's complex
44:57
and that we do understand that. But if if someone is in rescue
45:02
and they take in a dog, they have gut feelings about dogs.
45:08
If you're in rescue and you're ethical and you've been doing
45:11
this shit for a while, you you got a gut check, you got a
45:14
meter. And if you have a question about
45:17
the safety of a dog that's in your program.
45:21
Christy might make a face at me, but my perspective is gonna make
45:25
a face. You err on the side of caution.
45:27
Is that fair? Yes.
45:31
Yes it is. And.
45:32
And to be fair, what does that look like?
45:35
Maybe you take more time with the dog, Maybe you get a trainer
45:38
assessment. Maybe you try it in a different
45:41
foster setup. Maybe you test it with more
45:44
dogs. I don't.
45:45
Look, I'm not erring on the side of caution of the pink juice
45:48
every time, Christy. No, what I'm saying is you err
45:54
on the side of caution where you pause and you say, I got a
45:58
little gut check here. I wonder what that means.
46:01
I think I need to assess further and if that means that you can't
46:07
intake. Another dog.
46:09
Because this dog has to stay a little longer.
46:13
That's the right thing to do, to make sure that that dog is safe
46:18
to be in our society. It goes back to Trish Mcmillan's
46:22
The Perils of Adopting Out of Marginal.
46:26
I'm going to botch that. What is it?
46:27
The perils of adopting out marginal dogs?
46:31
Yeah, we're going to link that in the show notes.
46:33
Everybody needs to read that if you haven't read it already.
46:37
Let's talk a little bit about no kill status and the save the
46:42
mall movement, which I feel like get wrapped up all into one and
46:47
what how that can impact the shelter system and the decisions
46:51
that they make. So have you ever worked at a job
46:56
that requires you to meet a certain number?
47:01
Those good old metrics, Yeah, yeah.
47:04
And there's a purpose behind the metrics.
47:05
You can see why you need to meet that number.
47:08
You understand how it helps the company, blah, blah, blah.
47:12
But sometimes you just can't meet that number, doing your job
47:16
the way it's supposed to be done.
47:18
And so you have a decision and you decide I'll cut some corners
47:22
here, I'll cut some corners. It's not gonna matter to anybody
47:25
if I cut this corner. Nope.
47:27
No. But it's gonna matter to me
47:28
because maybe my job, my raise, is based on it.
47:31
Yeah. So you you cut the corners, you
47:33
make the numbers. Regardless of if it's the best
47:37
interest of your customer, your company, you meet your numbers.
47:43
I feel like that is what's happening sometimes with that no
47:47
kill movement and Save Them All movement is there's a specific
47:52
number like release rated with live release in order to be
47:58
considered no kill, and that no kill status is important to
48:02
shelters and rescues. And it is a movement that has
48:07
been pushed so strongly by the media and it's been attached to
48:14
well, if you're meeting your live release number and you're
48:17
considered no kill status, you're doing everything
48:19
perfectly and it's been built up into this sort of pinnacle that
48:24
a shelter needs to meet and. People who learn about that but
48:30
don't dig a little deeper might not necessarily know the
48:34
intricacies and the corners that have to be cut in some
48:38
situations to make that number happen.
48:41
And I don't think that focusing on a metrics is how we do
48:48
ethical sheltering. And I know, I know, I know, it's
48:51
very complex and there's 1000 different factors, but still.
48:56
I don't think meeting this number across the board for
49:01
every area, because every region is different, every city is
49:05
different. I mean, what the hell, We're in
49:07
Phoenix and we have a major overpopulation problem.
49:10
And there are other areas in the country that are begging for
49:13
dogs to come into their shelter system so people can adopt.
49:16
So you can't even do it in a way that makes sense.
49:22
Across the board, I would just like to see some cornerstones of
49:26
ethical sheltering. Hey, these are the things that
49:30
that is important for humans and for dogs, and these are pillars
49:37
of what we are making sure that we follow so that we can do our
49:42
best to put dogs into society that are safe for everyone and
49:49
everyone that are safe. Because some situations a dog is
49:53
safe somewhere and they're not safe somewhere else.
49:54
So look, more Gray area. Yeah, it's so much Gray area.
50:01
Yeah. Every time we say something,
50:02
we're like but then there could be an exception.
50:06
Goes back to the point that we know that this is so complex,
50:10
but at the same time I don't think that we can be.
50:15
I don't think we can say, oh, this is such a complex topic,
50:18
we're afraid to talk about it because then nobody's talking
50:21
about it. And if nobody's talking about
50:23
it, then that's not good either. Which is why Christy and I had
50:27
anxiety about this, not this episode.
50:30
Yeah. Yeah.
50:31
And which is why in our discussions, we don't always see
50:35
eye to eye because it's so complex.
50:38
Like sometimes what you stand on so strongly, then you think,
50:43
ohh, but what about this exception?
50:44
Yeah. What about this dog?
50:46
You know, I do. Yeah, I do.
50:49
Though think that that no kill status is something that.
50:54
OK, I'm just gonna say personally I would like to see
50:56
it go away. Yeah.
50:58
What kind of monster are you? I know who knows.
51:01
I just and save them all, but I don't exactly you need.
51:08
I do not because there's dogs that are saying don't stop
51:12
listening, but but I just explained.
51:15
Seriously, if you're listening to this podcast, I'm going to
51:19
say that you know that not every dog is safe.
51:25
There is not a farm out there magically taking these dogs who
51:30
aren't safe to be in our regular society over and over and over
51:33
again. Because here's reality If those
51:35
dogs aren't safe to be in society, then only one of those
51:38
dogs can go to each farm every single time.
51:41
Because they're not safe. Yeah, Yeah.
51:46
There's not, there's not enough Unicorn adopters.
51:49
Like, yeah. Single female living on 100
51:52
acres. That's never going to have
51:53
children, never going to get married.
51:55
Never. No farm animals.
51:57
No other. But they just wanted one dog.
52:00
100 acres dog. Yep.
52:03
That actually has the skills to keep that dog safely contained.
52:08
Yeah. So when we say like, we're not
52:11
pro save them all. I know that sounds terrible
52:16
because like on the surface, who is not in favor of saving as
52:20
many dogs as possible? I am we are.
52:23
We are in favor of saving as many dogs as is possible safely.
52:29
Yes. When we say we're not in favor
52:32
of save them all, we mean we've run into dogs that are
52:36
legitimately dangerous. Yes, that I think Heather and I
52:39
have both handled dogs. Where we once the dog's back in
52:44
its crate or a kennel, we said a big sigh of relief that we were
52:49
not bitten or mauled by. That I just had a slideshow run
52:52
through my head of dogs that I've handled.
52:54
And I'm not a novice handler. No.
52:57
And there's been multiple dogs that I've handled that have
53:00
tried to bite other people. And thank goodness my reflexes
53:04
were good because I I was able to save a couple people from
53:09
being mauled. And I don't think that when
53:12
people think of rescue, that is not what I want them to think
53:16
of. I do not want them to think of
53:18
risky dogs. We so often in rescue say that
53:23
these are the best dogs, they just have more experiences, or
53:27
maybe their owners let them down.
53:28
But let's honestly, let's make that the truth.
53:32
Let's make the dogs that are adopted out the best dogs.
53:37
But also when they're not the best dogs.
53:40
And that's OK, not everybody has to be the best all the time.
53:43
Let's be transparent. Yeah.
53:45
About what is happening. Yeah.
53:48
In a recent podcast a a different podcast, they talked
53:53
about people going into a shelter environment and asking
53:58
for the most difficult dog and saying we would like to adopt
54:01
the most difficult dog. Unfortunately the shelter didn't
54:04
go deeper and say well what does that look like to you and what
54:07
do you have in mind and what are the resources you have.
54:10
They just took that at face value and said here's our most
54:13
difficult dog, well, it was a dangerous dog and the couple
54:16
ended up returning the dog. But after the fact when they
54:21
were asked what did you think you were going to get And they
54:25
said we thought we would get a dog with a lot of management,
54:29
but we never imagined we'd get a dangerous dog that's heavy and
54:35
that was a not punched to me. Of course, people should not
54:39
expect to get a dangerous dog. Because the people were trying
54:43
to do something really great. Because they are that Unicorn
54:47
home that is capable of managing and taking on a dog who might
54:52
need a little bit extra in the way of behavior or whatever
54:56
else. But that extra doesn't equal
55:00
dangerous in my mind. Ooh, that's heavy.
55:03
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when we're talk about
55:07
responsible rescue, those are part of the things that we mean
55:11
that the rescue is really considering the homes that these
55:14
dogs are going to making sure that they are the right fit,
55:18
that they're not putting people or dogs in danger.
55:23
And here's the thing, there is this trickle down effect because
55:28
if the shelter is doing their very best.
55:34
To and we know that's complex. We've been shelter volunteers,
55:38
but if they're doing their very best, forget the forget the
55:41
number, forget the metrics. They're just assessing each dog
55:44
and they're doing their very best and then those dogs are
55:49
going into rescue. And those ethical rescues are
55:53
going ahead and following those different guidelines and getting
55:58
the dog into foster, and they're learning about the dog, and then
56:02
they're learning the different traits of each individual, and
56:06
then they're able to transparently advertise that
56:11
dog. Then the right family is getting
56:16
the right dog and we now have a good fit.
56:21
Versus this dog bouncing around all over and this dog ending up
56:26
in a potentially unsafe situation because the people
56:29
weren't prepared or what have you.
56:32
And then you go back to the beginning because the dog moved
56:35
more quickly. The dog is never going to come
56:38
back and we have good healthy dogs out in the environment and
56:45
people are now seeing that. And they're saying, oh wow, you
56:49
got this perfect fit for you. And you got it from a rescue.
56:53
Oh my gosh. Can you tell me more about that?
56:55
And then the cycle continues. This to me is how we do
57:02
responsible sheltering and responsible rescue, and how
57:06
although it may feel like a lot and all these different, you
57:12
want to maybe cut some corners, you're then.
57:15
Getting the cycle to repeat by more people willing to open
57:20
their hearts to adopting a dog. Yeah, I can't tell you how many
57:25
friends I have who wanted rescue, went with rescue, got a
57:32
marginal dog who was not a good fit for their family and ended
57:38
up with a bite scenario and have told all their friends don't get
57:45
a rescue. I can't have a rescue because
57:48
this. Happened and it's marketing 101.
57:52
If I'm thinking about doing something new or I'm thinking
57:57
about making a change in my life, who?
58:00
Who are the people that I ask? Hey, I'm thinking about doing
58:02
this. What has your experience been?
58:05
I go right to my friend pool. I go right to my family and I
58:08
say, hey guys, I'm thinking about doing this.
58:11
What has your experience been and if?
58:13
Six out of 10 people come and tell me a freaking Horror Story
58:18
about adopting a dog. It's going to make me really,
58:22
really question whether or not I'm willing to do that.
58:26
Honestly, if if 3 out of 10, yeah I tell you.
58:29
Depending on how bad the story is, yeah, that's still like, ooh
58:34
man, 30% chance I'm going to get a crappy dog like.
58:39
And I just think that there are so many great dogs in rescue.
58:44
Oh my. God, there are look at all
58:45
right, I almost said. Look at Tater like I was gonna
58:47
say something nice about him and then you caught myself.
58:51
I. Felt so messed up?
58:53
No, but seriously, look at Tater and we've adopted dogs of all
58:57
ranges from 14 weeks to six months to six years to 8 years,
59:01
you know, and everything in between.
59:03
We have had so many fantastic dogs in our lives.
59:08
Yeah, yeah, so many great dogs and rescued that.
59:12
We don't have to push these dangerous or marginal dogs
59:18
because there is a plethora of. Good ones, especially in
59:23
Phoenix. In Phoenix, yes.
59:25
Yeah. Yeah.
59:27
So many in Phoenix, yeah. I think it's really interesting
59:30
too. So I was talking to someone I
59:33
know that is deep in rescue and I asked her what is the most
59:39
difficult thing about being who you are.
59:44
And she told me and I just thought the analogy was so
59:50
interesting. She said.
59:51
Well, I just had somebody reach out to me to take in a
59:55
particular dog from the shelter and.
59:58
Everyone was all over me to take this dog and I was getting
1:00:03
emails. You know, she's getting
1:00:05
volunteers. Why are you taking this dog?
1:00:07
And she's like, everyone's looking at the tip of the
1:00:10
iceberg. Everybody's just seeing that one
1:00:13
dog. And they got pissed because she
1:00:18
chose not to pull the dog because she looked at as much
1:00:21
information as she had, which was the dog had subpar behavior
1:00:25
notes and some other factors. And she chose not to pull the
1:00:30
dog, right? Oh man, did she take a serious
1:00:36
backlash. And she's like, it just
1:00:38
frustrates me because nobody looks at the big picture under
1:00:41
the surface about why I made the decision not to pull that dog.
1:00:48
It is so much bigger than that tip of the iceberg.
1:00:51
And I thought that is such a clear way to look at it and how
1:00:58
these people who are running rescues, if you're doing things
1:01:01
ethically, you're constantly balancing a particular scenario
1:01:07
with the big picture. And if you are trying to remain
1:01:12
ethical and you are trying to do this little balancing act,
1:01:18
that's what you're doing day in and day out.
1:01:20
You're looking at a particular dog and you are trying to
1:01:23
balance that with the greater good and the big picture because
1:01:28
it doesn't just mean oh I said no to this dog.
1:01:31
Maybe you pissed off 6 volunteers and they stopped
1:01:33
volunteering with you because they were attached to that dog.
1:01:35
Or maybe you had somebody who was donating to you constantly
1:01:39
and they get really pissed off because they were attached to
1:01:42
that dog and they stopped funding you.
1:01:44
It's such a such a hard balance. Yeah.
1:01:48
But that also is why I think it's important we continue to
1:01:52
talk about it because we need the average person to understand
1:01:57
that these decisions are so much bigger than that single dog
1:02:03
sitting in front of that rescuer.
1:02:07
Yeah, yeah. And I'm gonna tell you, it is
1:02:10
tough when you are attached, yeah, to a dog in the shelter
1:02:14
and you know that their time is coming up there.
1:02:18
It happened to you? Yeah.
1:02:20
I mean Julius. But there was a dog before
1:02:23
Julius that I just fell so hard for and I could see her
1:02:29
deteriorating and I knew her time was limited and thankfully
1:02:34
she got adopted. Unfortunately, we don't know
1:02:37
who, but she did get adopted. But I remember thinking, I don't
1:02:42
know if I can volunteer. I don't know that I can put my
1:02:45
heart into this if she gets put to sleep, because I don't.
1:02:50
I don't think I'm. I can recover easily from this
1:02:53
one. I just got so over attacked.
1:02:55
You got really wrapped up in it, yeah.
1:02:58
Yeah, and in fact, because you're human.
1:03:01
Here's the thing. I wasn't even that impressed
1:03:03
with her. Another bond here.
1:03:06
Not super attached to her because she looked like one of
1:03:09
his old dogs. And then when he got attacked, I
1:03:12
saw all the magic that she brought to the table.
1:03:15
And I was like, I love this dog. I just love her.
1:03:19
She couldn't come home with me, but I loved her, yeah.
1:03:23
And yeah. And I totally got attached.
1:03:26
So I understand it's tough. It's tough for everyone.
1:03:30
Yeah, and I was so thankful that AZ K9 took a chance on Julius
1:03:34
because his notes were also not great.
1:03:37
But that is why they reached out to me personally.
1:03:40
Yes, before they took him and said hey, it doesn't look like
1:03:45
his notes are fantastic. What was your experience because
1:03:48
you had spent a lot of time with him at that point and had been
1:03:51
pulling him. No, I I actually only pulled him
1:03:55
once. What the fuck, Christy?
1:03:57
You're so irresponsible. I know I only pulled him, here
1:04:00
we go, Gray area. And right after I pulled him,
1:04:04
within the week, he went on the euthanasia list.
1:04:08
And I was like, I just had a gut feeling he was a good dog.
1:04:13
And you have a lot of experience.
1:04:15
Yeah, you have a lot of. Experience.
1:04:17
But I also knew I could be wrong, because that happens.
1:04:21
But if you had been wrong, you would have stepped up and done
1:04:24
the responsible thing, whatever that I would like.
1:04:26
And that is ethics. Yeah, I would have.
1:04:29
But. And I just said, here is my
1:04:32
experience, here's what the notes say, but here's how I
1:04:37
interpreted what was happening. I said take that for what you
1:04:41
what you will. And then they had a very similar
1:04:44
experience as I did when they met him.
1:04:46
And we're like, yeah, we're moving forward because, yeah,
1:04:49
everything you said is what we experienced too.
1:04:52
Yeah. Yeah.
1:04:53
It's hard, guys. It's hard.
1:04:55
It is. It really is.
1:04:59
We're going to talk about some things that I think are really
1:05:02
important, and it's ways that we can support ethical rescues, OK?
1:05:07
Because we want those ethical rescues to be supported in every
1:05:11
way possible so that they can continue to do the good work,
1:05:14
right? So absolutely.
1:05:17
Number one on the list is going to be foster Homes.
1:05:20
I got to say it. We did a fostering episode with
1:05:22
Kelsey. Go back and listen to it.
1:05:26
If you've ever had a little, like, flitter through your mind,
1:05:30
like I wonder if I could foster, go listen to the Foster episode.
1:05:34
So I would say fostering is absolutely at the top of the
1:05:37
list, wouldn't you, Christy? Yeah.
1:05:40
I would say fostering is a huge one.
1:05:42
I will also say volunteering, just not every dog has to be in
1:05:47
a foster home. Yeah, Although I think that
1:05:50
gives people probably the best idea of how a dog's going to be
1:05:54
in a home. But.
1:05:56
If you can't foster, volunteer. Those dogs deserve to get out of
1:06:00
their kennel every day and have human interaction.
1:06:03
Plus, it gives the rescue a better idea of who that dog is
1:06:09
with multiple people. Yes.
1:06:11
And makes a difference, yeah. And if you're volunteering at a
1:06:14
municipal shelter, those dogs are having a rough time in
1:06:19
general, majority of dogs are not going to be doing great in
1:06:22
that environment. So every moment that they get to
1:06:25
have human interaction and every moment that they get to have
1:06:28
freedom from that kennel space is something positive that sort
1:06:33
of refills their cup. And going back to the day
1:06:36
fostering anything that you can do to volunteer at a shelter or
1:06:41
a rescue and volunteer can look like it, a lot of different
1:06:45
things. You might be transporting, you
1:06:47
might be volunteering to do laundry.
1:06:50
It doesn't just mean that you have to handle dogs.
1:06:53
There's volunteer opportunities abound.
1:06:56
It's like we talked about maybe you're good at writing copy and
1:06:59
you start asking them to help with their social media.
1:07:01
It could mean so many different things.
1:07:03
Just as long as whatever you're doing, you feel comfortable
1:07:06
doing it and you're doing it for a shelter or rescue, that is
1:07:12
ethical. That's what we want to see.
1:07:14
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
1:07:16
And the cool thing about if you volunteer for a rescue and a
1:07:21
shelter, I found as you build those relationship with
1:07:25
different rescues, I have a couple different rescues who
1:07:28
will now? Reach out to me and say, have
1:07:30
you had interactions with this dog in the shelter?
1:07:34
What was your experience with. Yeah, because they want an
1:07:37
honest opinion and they've seen me handle dogs with them and
1:07:41
they trust my evaluation that dog.
1:07:44
So not to manipulate rescues, but to be an honest person on
1:07:48
the other side and say, yeah, hey, this was my experience,
1:07:51
yeah, because you can be an ally.
1:07:53
Yeah, that's valuable information.
1:07:55
Yeah. So obviously you can always
1:07:59
donate. I mean, if you don't have the
1:08:00
time and you can't foster, but you got an extra 5 bucks at the
1:08:05
end of the week or you want to sacrifice a Starbucks, go ahead.
1:08:09
And even $5. I'm telling you that sounds
1:08:13
silly. But $5 to a rescue, if they're
1:08:17
getting that from 10 people once a week, that's a big deal.
1:08:21
That's several bags of dog food or enrichment items for those
1:08:25
dogs or a vet visit. Anything that you're capable of
1:08:30
doing when it comes to monetary contributions that makes a
1:08:34
difference. I would also say if maybe you're
1:08:39
like. I kind of want to know what my
1:08:41
money goes to. Yes, you can buy goods.
1:08:45
Absolutely too. Sometimes I buy toys or treats
1:08:48
or bones, things like that. Or sometimes my dog doesn't like
1:08:53
the bones that I bought and it's a whole bag of premium pizzle
1:08:58
stinks cow weener. I was like, is she going to
1:09:03
stay? I don't think Lucy will ever
1:09:07
turn that down, but let's say she did.
1:09:09
Then I can donate that to a rescue or a shelter in my area,
1:09:13
which is a great way to go about it too.
1:09:17
And a lot of times there are organizations that will match
1:09:21
your donation. So if you want it to go further,
1:09:24
find that I know. Can I guess CCP?
1:09:27
Yes. In Arizona, they do a driveway
1:09:30
every month. Where?
1:09:32
You order off their Amazon page and then they match every single
1:09:37
thing that is purchased. That's community canine project.
1:09:40
We'll we'll link them in our show notes because they do great
1:09:43
work. They do and so but there's also
1:09:46
other organizations that will match too.
1:09:49
So find an organization in your area that does that and make
1:09:52
your money. Go further.
1:09:54
Do a little research for that too.
1:09:56
Yeah, so. I like my money going as far as
1:09:58
possible. Yeah.
1:09:59
You don't have time, you don't have money.
1:10:02
You don't have those tangible resources that you're able to
1:10:06
offer. The last thing that I would say
1:10:09
is if there is a rescue group that you would like to promote,
1:10:16
it costs you nothing to dig a little deeper.
1:10:19
It costs you nothing to make sure that the group that you are
1:10:24
sharing on your Facebook page or promoting on Instagram, or what
1:10:29
have you telling your friends and family about, to make sure
1:10:33
that that group is actually following some ethical
1:10:37
guidelines. So if you have no tangible
1:10:40
resources to give in the way of donations, volunteer time,
1:10:43
whatever, but you are promoting and you are sharing certain
1:10:47
groups and rescues, please just make sure for the love of dogs
1:10:52
and people that they are actually an ethical group.
1:10:56
Yes, Yeah. Because you never want to know
1:10:59
that you promoted a group that is is harming dogs when your
1:11:05
whole goal is for the betterment of dogs.
1:11:08
Yeah. And honestly, I've done it in
1:11:10
the past. I've been involved where I sort
1:11:13
of got into the inner circle of a group that I thought was super
1:11:17
ethical and was doing all these amazing things.
1:11:19
And I absolutely shared that group with friends and family
1:11:23
and people I knew, dedicated time and money and everything
1:11:27
else. And then once I dug a little
1:11:29
deeper, I found out that I did not believe in this group and
1:11:33
the things that they were doing in my mind was not ethical.
1:11:36
So that was like a live and learn experience.
1:11:40
I think that's part of this episode too, is like, we've
1:11:43
lived, we've learned, we've experienced, and now we're
1:11:46
sharing that with you so that you don't have to go through all
1:11:50
that heartache and you don't have to go through all that
1:11:52
work. This is what we've seen and this
1:11:54
is what we've experienced and here's where we are in the other
1:11:58
side of it, and this is stuff that's really important.
1:12:00
To us? Absolutely.
1:12:04
If you've enjoyed this episode, feel free to.
1:12:08
Rate us, subscribe and share us on the platform of your
1:12:12
choosing. Also visit us over on Instagram
1:12:16
at Sometimes Their Side Eye. Yes.
1:12:19
And we are dropping new episodes every other Thursday and we so
1:12:23
appreciate you spending this time with us.
1:12:26
Have a great day guys. Thanks everybody.
1:12:29
Bye, bye.