Latest / Like a Virgin / Shoshanna Rising

Transcript

Shoshanna Rising · Like a Virgin

0:03
Speaker 1: Dreamline rotation me Brandon Adina Menzel, could you imagine? Oh
0:09
Speaker 1: my god. Also, I mean Michelle Fiper, Viola Davis and
0:12
Speaker 1: Jillian Anderson are also very dreamline rotations. Okay, I'm in
0:21
Speaker 1: the middle of a pretty disgusting experience that I also
0:25
Speaker 1: am completely in love with, which is I'm rewatching Girls.
0:30
Speaker 1: And this was inspired by the fact that I've been
0:32
Speaker 1: seeing Hunter Harris watching it and she's been tweeting about it.
0:36
Speaker 1: It was just the tenth anniversary of the show's premiere,
0:40
Speaker 1: and I realized I hadn't watched Girls in years, and
0:45
Speaker 1: I did. Bully Fran also into rewatching. Well, here's here's
0:49
Speaker 1: what here's what actually happened, because I mean, obviously Hunter Harris,
0:53
Speaker 1: you know the impact. And so when she rewatches something,
0:56
Speaker 1: now the culture is rewatching something, and when we're seeing
0:59
Speaker 1: her tweet about Marnie's music video and like, I want
1:01
Speaker 1: to watch Marty's music and when the culture is rewatching things,
1:04
Speaker 1: that's when I want to rewatch. But I will say,
1:06
Speaker 1: when I started to see the Girls tweets from you,
1:09
Speaker 1: I was like, as your friend, I don't support this.
1:12
Speaker 1: It's literally gotten in the way of me consuming any
1:15
Speaker 1: other kind of culture like the Flight Attendants season two premiered,
1:19
Speaker 1: which I was so excited for and I haven't watched
1:21
Speaker 1: it yet because I've just been rewatching Girls. We need
1:25
Speaker 1: to watch that together. Actually we should watch it tomorrow.
1:27
Speaker 1: We do. Um. Basically, I judged was very hard and
1:30
Speaker 1: I said I don't support this, and within twenty four
1:32
Speaker 1: hours I was like, actually I'm gonna We were we
1:35
Speaker 1: were we were texting about it and you were and
1:38
Speaker 1: I was saying, Fran, we should do an episode on Girls,
1:40
Speaker 1: and I said no, And then the next text and
1:43
Speaker 1: then the next things I got from you was I
1:45
Speaker 1: wish I was this cool when I was twenty three.
1:50
Speaker 1: Well it was also like I think the biggest motivator
1:52
Speaker 1: for me was Adam Givers sex scenes. But anyways, we'll
1:54
Speaker 1: get into it. Well, yes, because today we're talking about Girls,
1:57
Speaker 1: the HBO series created by Lena Them and we're going
2:01
Speaker 1: to you know, look at it throughout lens ten years
2:06
Speaker 1: and so much has changed. Because this is like a
2:09
Speaker 1: virgin the show where we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes.
2:12
Speaker 1: I'm ros Damo and I'm Fran Grato. Um, we have
2:15
Speaker 1: like slightly less topical stuff to talk about today because
2:18
Speaker 1: we are recording this all at once, and the reason
2:21
Speaker 1: we're doing that is because tomorrow is Fran's birthday. It
2:26
Speaker 1: is tomorrow upon this record, not tomorrow when this podcast. Yes,
2:29
Speaker 1: so by the time you all listen to it, she
2:31
Speaker 1: will be forty five sited, yes, years young. Unfortunately for you,
2:43
Speaker 1: we probably have not consumed a lot of the pop
2:45
Speaker 1: culture you would expect us to be talking about, as
2:48
Speaker 1: in we we have not watched the Drag Race finale. Yeah,
2:52
Speaker 1: I mean I have. I have watched half of it,
2:54
Speaker 1: but I don't know who wins yet. And I know
2:57
Speaker 1: who wins, but I haven't watched it yet. And you
3:00
Speaker 1: haven't spoiled it for me, which doesn't mean I have not. Yeah,
3:03
Speaker 1: I don't know how the internet hasn't spoiled it for you.
3:05
Speaker 1: Um well, I've been staying. We're at a party full
3:08
Speaker 1: of queer people. Last night. No one like shouted out
3:11
Speaker 1: yeah so last yeah, okay, so last night was gorgeous, gorgeous,
3:14
Speaker 1: some a little. It was like a pre birthday party,
3:16
Speaker 1: but a monthly like kind of queer party. I'm trying
3:19
Speaker 1: to do here in Los Angeles, raging success. Everyone had
3:22
Speaker 1: so much fun. The girls that did the drag Laurel
3:24
Speaker 1: Charleston and Mother Teresa were like, unreal, Teresa did this
3:28
Speaker 1: version of Um Britney spears hit Me, Bade Me one
3:31
Speaker 1: More Time that like starts out like slow acapella, and
3:33
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, someone's going to do like an acapella Britney.
3:36
Speaker 1: That's like interesting as like a drag piece. And then
3:38
Speaker 1: this song gets like progressively like slower and like kind
3:43
Speaker 1: of like moody warped like dark um and everyone was
3:47
Speaker 1: losing their goddamn minds. But yeah, shockingly, did not get
3:51
Speaker 1: drag Race spoiled for me last night. Wow, I'm so
3:54
Speaker 1: happy that you haven't. And let me tell you, I
3:57
Speaker 1: don't really care someone spoiler. I don't think I would care,
4:01
Speaker 1: Like it's there was nothing. So I've watched the first
4:04
Speaker 1: half and all of the performances are kind of like
4:09
Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, I hate the fact that
4:11
Speaker 1: they're going back to original song. So if you don't know,
4:13
Speaker 1: they are like allah season six, seven and eight, the
4:17
Speaker 1: girls are doing like drag Race written songs out there
4:21
Speaker 1: like I did I did hear? I did hear my
4:24
Speaker 1: friend who spoiled the ending for me? Um who was
4:27
Speaker 1: talking me through a sort of emotional unraveling I was
4:30
Speaker 1: happening last night. Um did walk me through how the
4:34
Speaker 1: finale unfold and it sounds very boring. I don't think
4:37
Speaker 1: the return to this format was really the move. I
4:41
Speaker 1: think it was nice to try and shake it up,
4:43
Speaker 1: but I just hate the song. Well. I also think
4:46
Speaker 1: this is an interesting take. Anythink fran Uni should cover
4:49
Speaker 1: your ears for this? Okay? Okay, I think that the
4:52
Speaker 1: finale was engineered in a way to set up the
4:56
Speaker 1: person who won to win. And that's all I'll say
5:00
Speaker 1: about that. Okay, you can. You can uncover your ears. Now.
5:04
Speaker 1: Is there anything else happening in the world we should
5:06
Speaker 1: talk about? I mean, like, um, what do we What
5:10
Speaker 1: did you watch this week? Just girls? That's it. That's
5:13
Speaker 1: what I did. Read a book in one day last weekend. Um.
5:18
Speaker 1: I read this book that I'm pretty sure is One
5:21
Speaker 1: Direction fan fiction. How did that happen? Um? It's because
5:25
Speaker 1: I saw it on book Talk and I know my
5:28
Speaker 1: sisters who are like current Harry Style stands and used
5:31
Speaker 1: to be one direction ars. You used to read Harry
5:35
Speaker 1: Styles fan fiction. And there's this book called If This
5:38
Speaker 1: Comes Out, and it's about two boy band members who
5:41
Speaker 1: fall in love. That sounds kind of great. And I
5:44
Speaker 1: read it in a day because no, it's not good.
5:52
Speaker 1: I rated it three stars on good Reads. It was
5:55
Speaker 1: definitely very easy to get through. It was a diverting
5:59
Speaker 1: way to spend an afternoon. Um, but no, it's not good.
6:03
Speaker 1: You know what else is not great? The pilot of
6:07
Speaker 1: First Lady. Have you? Oh no, I haven't watched it
6:10
Speaker 1: because I've heard it's bad, babe. I So here's the thing.
6:14
Speaker 1: I am going to watch the rest of the show
6:16
Speaker 1: because from like all the previews, it looks like it's
6:19
Speaker 1: going to get better and juicier, like good melodrama. And
6:23
Speaker 1: I do actually think that the portraits of these three
6:25
Speaker 1: women are stunning because the actresses doing it are stunning.
6:30
Speaker 1: Viola Davis's impression of Michelle Obama is getting a little
6:33
Speaker 1: flak right now because, um, she's kind of overdoing a
6:38
Speaker 1: very specific lip. Person. Have you seen the memes about this?
6:43
Speaker 1: I saw the me I saw the meme that she
6:45
Speaker 1: liked of like the fast food workers sitting on side
6:48
Speaker 1: after their shift, and it was like Vio Davis's lips
6:53
Speaker 1: between takes, and she liked it on Twitter. She liked it,
7:02
Speaker 1: I have to like, Okay, so an even though you
7:07
Speaker 1: can't see it, so I have to say that she's
7:10
Speaker 1: getting a lot of flak I personal from watching the show.
7:13
Speaker 1: I actually still think that the Obama portrayal is stunning.
7:18
Speaker 1: I think that she looks and sounds and feels exactly
7:22
Speaker 1: like Michelle Obama. But the script is just not good,
7:25
Speaker 1: and I feel like Viola Davis is having a hard
7:27
Speaker 1: time doing what she needs to do because the script
7:29
Speaker 1: is so bad. And then on top of that, I
7:31
Speaker 1: do think the lip person thing is like a little
7:34
Speaker 1: and ol even though Michelle Obama does do that. We
7:44
Speaker 1: are laughing at a tweet. We'll post it on the Burner.
7:48
Speaker 1: I gotta wait. We need to tell the Virgins about
7:50
Speaker 1: our burner. So we have a we have a burner
7:53
Speaker 1: Instagram that you should follow it. No, no, not should.
7:56
Speaker 1: You must listen to this. You will follow it and
8:00
Speaker 1: share things from it because it's at like a virgin
8:03
Speaker 1: for that's at like a virgin for on Instagram. Yes,
8:10
Speaker 1: and it is Fran myself and our producer Phoebe just
8:14
Speaker 1: ship posting our little asses off. Yeah, and we'll do
8:17
Speaker 1: memes of the week. The account only follows for people,
8:21
Speaker 1: Fran myself, Phoebe, and Adida Mentell. And so right now
8:26
Speaker 1: I'm looking at the home page and it has like
8:29
Speaker 1: the people's stories at top, and it's just Fran Rose
8:32
Speaker 1: and Indiana Love the Idina makes stories. That's so nice. Um,
8:37
Speaker 1: well she's talking about Earth Day, yeah, oh lovely love
8:40
Speaker 1: that from you know, climate change frozen. So anyways, just
8:44
Speaker 1: to tell you the rest about this, Michelle Peiffer plays
8:47
Speaker 1: Betty Ford, which like someone I never paid attention to,
8:50
Speaker 1: someone I don't know as like a American figure. That's Betty.
8:56
Speaker 1: Betty Ford is the one with the clinic, you know.
8:58
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she's the one with the clinic. Is it
9:01
Speaker 1: for eating disorders or drugs? I don't know. I actually
9:05
Speaker 1: don't know. I haven't done even a cursory google on
9:07
Speaker 1: Betty for it. Um, but because I will either way,
9:10
Speaker 1: I hope they get the help they need. I will say,
9:11
Speaker 1: I'd be curious to know what the virgins think. But
9:13
Speaker 1: the pilot is not good. Literally, nothing happens. The script
9:18
Speaker 1: is so boring. There's no like engine or real steaks
9:22
Speaker 1: established in these three women's lives, and it's like what
9:26
Speaker 1: like it was just such a bad beginning to what
9:29
Speaker 1: a show that has so much potential but I don't know.
9:32
Speaker 1: I've hoped for the previous. So when you watch it,
9:34
Speaker 1: I would love to hear your opinions, and as well,
9:36
Speaker 1: I think we should try and watch it. Oh, I
9:39
Speaker 1: did you know what? We talked about this a few
9:41
Speaker 1: weeks ago, So I do want to give an update.
9:43
Speaker 1: I finished Our Flag Means Death what? Yeah? It and
9:47
Speaker 1: it did get better and so much gayer, Like everything
9:51
Speaker 1: is gay on it, everyone is gay. I'm probably not
9:54
Speaker 1: going to watch it. So what was like a highlight
9:55
Speaker 1: from the end? Um So the show ends with Steed
10:01
Speaker 1: the main guy, so he and black Beard they get
10:04
Speaker 1: captured essentially, and they declare their love for each other
10:08
Speaker 1: and kiss. Also the non binary pirate there's a non
10:12
Speaker 1: binary non binary pirate and everyone uses they then pronouns
10:16
Speaker 1: for them. Okay, um pis written. Yeah, I'm so glad
10:21
Speaker 1: that we have a slow news week because this means
10:23
Speaker 1: I can finally talk about the Omar Apollo album that
10:26
Speaker 1: I Oh, you have really been wanting to talk about this? Okay,
10:31
Speaker 1: here's the thing. I have not been wanting to talk
10:33
Speaker 1: about it. But um, but like so many fagots are
10:36
Speaker 1: posting about the new Omar album on social or they
10:39
Speaker 1: were rather because it was kind of a very temporal
10:42
Speaker 1: moment um not seeing a word about it, just just
10:46
Speaker 1: so you know, I think that's the difference between our feeds. Unfortunately,
10:50
Speaker 1: Um so omar Apollo, which I had kept calling him
10:52
Speaker 1: omar Apo and that's not correct at all. Um is
10:58
Speaker 1: like this like kind of gay acoustic e vibe, like
11:02
Speaker 1: sad boy music person. And I listened to his new
11:06
Speaker 1: album Ivory, and um, you know, it was it was
11:09
Speaker 1: like I had it on repeat for like a day
11:12
Speaker 1: or two, but it's like it was very slow vibes
11:14
Speaker 1: and like very like I think. After I listened to
11:17
Speaker 1: it a few more times, I was like, this sounds
11:18
Speaker 1: so much like Frank Ocean. Were you ever a Frank
11:21
Speaker 1: Ocean fan? Okay, so I'm a diehard Frank Ocean fan,
11:25
Speaker 1: like since like college pre Channel Orange, have seen him
11:29
Speaker 1: a concert many times back in the Tumbler days, literally
11:33
Speaker 1: like the nostalgia ultra like mix tave days. So I
11:37
Speaker 1: was like disoriented by how alarming lye similar. Some of
11:41
Speaker 1: the songs were, like there's a song that he does
11:43
Speaker 1: with Calucus that like is so similar to Nikes I
11:48
Speaker 1: had to check my like phone to see that I
11:51
Speaker 1: hadn't accidentally switched to like a Frank Ocean remix of something.
11:54
Speaker 1: I wonder if it will be the kind of thing
11:55
Speaker 1: where he like retroactively has to like pay royalties like
11:59
Speaker 1: Olivia Drigo had to do with Taylor Swift. Dave. Guess
12:02
Speaker 1: what I found out. I've been doing some reporting for
12:04
Speaker 1: the podcast when I was thank God, let me tell
12:06
Speaker 1: you original reporting. So when I was driving late at night,
12:10
Speaker 1: I'm back from a Coachella party. I was driving home
12:14
Speaker 1: like two friends of friends that are from Mexico and
12:17
Speaker 1: they work in the music industry, and one of them
12:20
Speaker 1: were friends with Omar Apollo, and so we're talking about
12:23
Speaker 1: this new album and this, and I was saying, like,
12:25
Speaker 1: you know, it feels really Frank oceany to me, like
12:28
Speaker 1: or not all of it? And I should say, like
12:29
Speaker 1: half of it is very like acoustic eat kind of
12:31
Speaker 1: like John Mayer ish like feel good vibes, and then
12:35
Speaker 1: and then some of it gets a little like you know,
12:38
Speaker 1: Latin ra music, and then the rest sounds like Frank Ocean.
12:42
Speaker 1: And I was like, well, it sounds a lot like
12:44
Speaker 1: Frank Ocean, and the guy looks at me and he goes,
12:45
Speaker 1: you know they used to date, right, oh twist say
12:49
Speaker 1: dated for three years and they broke up. And this
12:54
Speaker 1: album Ivory is all about Frank, both in both in
12:58
Speaker 1: terms of the content and the musical style that he
13:02
Speaker 1: stole from him. And so I don't I don't have
13:04
Speaker 1: like a ton of intel on like the inner workings
13:06
Speaker 1: of their relationship, but I do know that there's drama
13:11
Speaker 1: in the fact that this album sounds like Frank a
13:14
Speaker 1: little bit, because can you imagine if you broke up
13:16
Speaker 1: with your ex and your ex release an album that
13:18
Speaker 1: sounded like your art, Like I would go whack, but
13:22
Speaker 1: I would go deserve I would. But I also feel
13:24
Speaker 1: like that that also feels alarmingly common in celebrity culture,
13:29
Speaker 1: Like I think when celebrities date, they influence each other's art.
13:32
Speaker 1: So I don't know, like you know, what they're actual
13:36
Speaker 1: kind of vibe is. But I was like, oh my god,
13:38
Speaker 1: they dated, Like that's so juicy. Can you imagine dating
13:42
Speaker 1: Frank Ocean and be horrible? Like he must be the
13:44
Speaker 1: most emotionally avoidable. I just wouldn't want to date anyone
13:47
Speaker 1: who I knew would make art about our breakup. Oh,
13:51
Speaker 1: are you kidding me? I feel like I exclusively date
13:53
Speaker 1: people that make art about it. Break now, that is
13:55
Speaker 1: the difference between you and I. It is only and
13:57
Speaker 1: this is not an exaggeration. It is only a man
14:00
Speaker 1: ter of time before an off Broadway play debuts about me.
14:03
Speaker 1: It's gonna be by me. It's gonna be called they
14:08
Speaker 1: Them No, They Them scares No. Unfortunately, it's gonna be
14:14
Speaker 1: written by one of my they them x is that
14:16
Speaker 1: works in theater. So you all can't see us right now.
14:33
Speaker 1: But Frand and I just finished dancing and hugging each
14:35
Speaker 1: other while um Dancing on My Own by Robin played.
14:40
Speaker 1: Because as we said today, we are talking about Girls,
14:44
Speaker 1: the HBO series created and often written and directed by Ms.
14:49
Speaker 1: Lena Dunham and her creative partner Jenny Cohner Yes Um
14:53
Speaker 1: and executive produced by Judd Apatow, Famous Girls. I think
14:57
Speaker 1: we should set the stage of the culture in which
15:01
Speaker 1: it premiered into. So it came out in two thousand twelve,
15:05
Speaker 1: and it's very obviously in a post Sex in the
15:09
Speaker 1: City legacy. It is filling that hole on HBO, which
15:14
Speaker 1: I think is it is directly referenced because in the
15:18
Speaker 1: first episode Showshana, the character played by sajammm It has
15:22
Speaker 1: a sex in the City poster in her bedroom, so
15:25
Speaker 1: like it was very aware of the fact that it
15:28
Speaker 1: was a show about four women living in New York City.
15:31
Speaker 1: Definitely on HBO, and I think even Showshana asks Jessa
15:36
Speaker 1: in the first episode like who which which one of
15:39
Speaker 1: the girls are you? And Jesse's like, I've never seen
15:41
Speaker 1: that that movie that the one. Okay. One of the
15:44
Speaker 1: things that this show does amazingly upon my rewatch is
15:48
Speaker 1: encapsulate people that you know so exactly. And when Zoja said,
15:53
Speaker 1: when Zaja sorry says um, when she asked that question,
15:58
Speaker 1: she kind of does the thing that she does where
16:00
Speaker 1: she asked you a question and then immediately answers it herself.
16:02
Speaker 1: And she and then she goes, she goes, you know,
16:05
Speaker 1: I'm like Samantha, but also like sometimes like I'm like
16:07
Speaker 1: a carry. And she basically says that she's like three
16:10
Speaker 1: of them, you know, she says, she says, like, no,
16:12
Speaker 1: I think I'm a carry, but you know, like sometimes
16:14
Speaker 1: Samantha comes out and like she could not be more
16:17
Speaker 1: of a Charlotte. But the exactly I know, And that's
16:20
Speaker 1: the other thing is that people that say I'm Carrie
16:23
Speaker 1: but also Samantha but also like Miranda don't know who
16:26
Speaker 1: they carry's son, Samantha Rising, you know, but it's so
16:30
Speaker 1: like like Lena Dunham's or rather whoever wrote that likely
16:32
Speaker 1: like the ability to like um just encapsulate like someone
16:37
Speaker 1: who so totally does not know themselves at all, Like
16:40
Speaker 1: just in one line, you're like know everything about them
16:43
Speaker 1: And I think that like I don't know, well that's
16:44
Speaker 1: what and you know, and like we were texting about
16:47
Speaker 1: this as you were watching it is I think the
16:51
Speaker 1: post the post industrial girls complex, which is which is
16:55
Speaker 1: a real thing, like there was literally a girl's think
16:58
Speaker 1: piece economy that started in the first season was paying
17:02
Speaker 1: its light belt with that. Yes, absolutely, But the thing
17:05
Speaker 1: that you forget and the thing that Fran and I
17:07
Speaker 1: were texting about, is just how well the show is written.
17:12
Speaker 1: The writing is so the writing in the comedy and
17:16
Speaker 1: the character work is so specific. Each the show has
17:20
Speaker 1: a very defined voice, and then within that, each of
17:24
Speaker 1: the characters has a very defined voice, and nothing they
17:28
Speaker 1: say like I'm sure there was you know, like maybe
17:31
Speaker 1: some improv and some people like brought their own selves
17:33
Speaker 1: to their characters, but the things that they say, the
17:37
Speaker 1: jokes that they make, even the little asides and like
17:40
Speaker 1: one liners are so specific and so funny and inform
17:45
Speaker 1: who these people are. Like, it is a show that
17:48
Speaker 1: I think does really well showing and not telling. Yeah,
17:52
Speaker 1: I mean even also like um, not just with the
17:55
Speaker 1: main characters, like with characters that have two lines, you know,
17:59
Speaker 1: like I'm thinking about them. I think it's the Bush
18:01
Speaker 1: Wake Warehouse episode where they meet one of the best episodes.
18:06
Speaker 1: It's I I haven't rewatched yet, but I remember in
18:09
Speaker 1: the episode there's a girl named Taco and she says, no,
18:13
Speaker 1: my name is Taco. And she's like, that's what I said, Taco.
18:15
Speaker 1: And she's like, no, you're saying it talk like Taco.
18:17
Speaker 1: She said no, she says, um, it's it's spelled with
18:20
Speaker 1: a K. By the way, I can just tell when
18:22
Speaker 1: people think it's at the City and that that like
18:26
Speaker 1: things like that, that single line, it's like I know
18:28
Speaker 1: that person, I've met that person. I know exactly what
18:30
Speaker 1: that person is like. And I think that um, Lena
18:33
Speaker 1: Dunham's like ability to capture those archetypes much like how
18:37
Speaker 1: Sex and the City did, and it's era much how
18:40
Speaker 1: like Broad City does did in its era, like they
18:44
Speaker 1: really and also I think Insecure, like Insecure, like they're
18:48
Speaker 1: kind of I think those four shows, I would say,
18:52
Speaker 1: especially Sex in the City, Girls and Insecure because they're
18:56
Speaker 1: all on HBO, And then like especially Broad City, Insecure
19:00
Speaker 1: in Girls because they're all like post Sex in the
19:03
Speaker 1: City and in New York Like they're all in their
19:05
Speaker 1: own ways reacting to the things that Sex and the
19:08
Speaker 1: City lacked in different ways. Well, but I think that
19:11
Speaker 1: when you think about the triot of Broad City, Sex
19:14
Speaker 1: in the City, and Girls, in between those two, you
19:18
Speaker 1: kind of have a spectrum of I was gonna say realism,
19:22
Speaker 1: but it's more of a spectrum of like how they
19:24
Speaker 1: authenticated like New York girlhood, you know what I mean.
19:28
Speaker 1: And on the Broad City and you have absurdism that's
19:31
Speaker 1: still that relies on how broke they are and how
19:35
Speaker 1: fucked up and chaotic they are in order to create
19:38
Speaker 1: that relatability, and Girls is like hyper realism mumble core.
19:42
Speaker 1: And then you have Sex and City on the other
19:44
Speaker 1: end that's like relies more in like archetype and kind
19:47
Speaker 1: of more sitcom. But they're all they all do like
19:51
Speaker 1: play with some level of fantasy. Obviously, like in Sex
19:54
Speaker 1: and the City, the fantasy is like the wealth um
19:57
Speaker 1: and in Girls, I think the fantasy almost as like
20:00
Speaker 1: the honesty and like the way that people talk to
20:03
Speaker 1: each other, and like the like the dysfunctionality of the
20:08
Speaker 1: relationships is so heightened, like I don't think people I
20:12
Speaker 1: think some people are that honest with their friends, but
20:14
Speaker 1: I don't think most people are. And then in Broad City,
20:18
Speaker 1: like the fantasy isn't like in the absurdness. In the Absurdism,
20:21
Speaker 1: I almost feel like Girls doesn't necessarily have as much
20:26
Speaker 1: a fantasy as it had, as it took components of
20:30
Speaker 1: like Sex in the City and was like, oh, this
20:32
Speaker 1: is how we actually are able to pay for our lives,
20:35
Speaker 1: wherein Sex in the City it's like never acknowledge that
20:38
Speaker 1: they're all independently wealthy, where with with Girls, it's like
20:41
Speaker 1: the first scene is like my parents were footing my bill,
20:44
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And I think that and
20:46
Speaker 1: here's the thing which is so like it's just such
20:49
Speaker 1: good writing like that that is I think as someone
20:54
Speaker 1: who I mean, it does not like I have not
20:57
Speaker 1: ever like studied screenwriting, but obviously like we you know,
21:00
Speaker 1: we both work in media, like literally in Hollywood, so
21:03
Speaker 1: I know what a good pilot episode looks like. And
21:06
Speaker 1: the pilot of Girls is incredible. And I also like
21:10
Speaker 1: read the pilot recently, like on paper, and it is
21:13
Speaker 1: like I'm not surprised by like how people might have
21:17
Speaker 1: responded to the script in the beginning, like it's it
21:20
Speaker 1: has a magnetic kind of presence that you've never read before.
21:23
Speaker 1: That's actually something I would be really interested in because
21:25
Speaker 1: I would love to see how much of what is
21:28
Speaker 1: on the screen was on the page. It's fascinating. I'll
21:31
Speaker 1: send it to you. Um, But I um was going
21:34
Speaker 1: to say, I think that, um, we're going to get
21:37
Speaker 1: into the Lena donot of all, and like, I think
21:40
Speaker 1: that there are a lot of reasons as to why
21:41
Speaker 1: people you know, don't like her or don't like the
21:43
Speaker 1: shower whatever, But you have to I think that, especially
21:48
Speaker 1: in this day and age, despite the fact that there
21:50
Speaker 1: were no people out of coloring in like season one,
21:53
Speaker 1: and no queer people except for Elijah, who was one
21:55
Speaker 1: of the best TV characters, we do not give Lena enough.
22:00
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, we do not give lean enough credit.
22:01
Speaker 1: She's given enough credit. Um, we I think that um
22:04
Speaker 1: to me, my response to the show and how much
22:07
Speaker 1: I loved upon Rewatch was um, Lena's interest in investigating
22:14
Speaker 1: whiteness and she is I felt like she was so
22:18
Speaker 1: adamant was it or was it just her interest in
22:20
Speaker 1: investigating herself but making fun of herself in that And
22:25
Speaker 1: I think understanding that that self is a very privileged self.
22:28
Speaker 1: So she must in her head she's probably not thinking,
22:31
Speaker 1: like I'm writing about whiteness right now, you know, I
22:33
Speaker 1: don't think that's it. But she knows that the things
22:37
Speaker 1: the way this character is inhabited and the way this
22:40
Speaker 1: character is like set up in her life, and she's
22:42
Speaker 1: obviously a really deplorable character, and and never and Lena
22:46
Speaker 1: has never written the character. I mean, like, this is
22:48
Speaker 1: the most likable character ever, Like she always knows that
22:51
Speaker 1: Hannah is horrible. She's definitely she's definitely investigating her own privilege.
22:56
Speaker 1: I think what she's not doing, and then what a
22:58
Speaker 1: show today look like is she is not juxtaposing her
23:03
Speaker 1: privilege with someone else's lack of Yeah, there's no other
23:08
Speaker 1: kind of there's nothing else to be counterpoint because the
23:11
Speaker 1: other three girls also have some kind of privilege, both
23:14
Speaker 1: on and and well, we do need to talk about
23:17
Speaker 1: the fact that all four of the main characters. Well,
23:20
Speaker 1: first of all, they're all white, all sis that we
23:23
Speaker 1: know of UM and all our nepotism babies. Lena Dunham
23:27
Speaker 1: has a famous artist for a mother. Zaja Maamma is
23:30
Speaker 1: the daughter of the famous player right David Mammot, who
23:33
Speaker 1: is like super canceled and problematic UM. Alison Williams is
23:36
Speaker 1: the daughter of Brian Williams, the legendary UM like news
23:40
Speaker 1: Post and then UM Jemima Kirk's day it was in
23:47
Speaker 1: a rock band. So they all are like extremely privileged. Yeah,
23:51
Speaker 1: and and it's funny, I mean the I think obviously
23:58
Speaker 1: the character has leaned on their real life selves in
24:01
Speaker 1: order to portray these characters, even though they're obviously characters.
24:05
Speaker 1: It's like they're written with the actresses in mind, and
24:09
Speaker 1: you think that's imputed in a lot of the script,
24:11
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It kind of reminds me
24:13
Speaker 1: of like what are shows that like UM, I mean,
24:16
Speaker 1: maybe not a Lana and Abby in Broad City, because
24:18
Speaker 1: they always talk about how they're very different from their characters.
24:21
Speaker 1: There are other shows where like the maybe even like
24:23
Speaker 1: Euphoria or something where the characters are like lifted from
24:28
Speaker 1: the actors that play them and leans on their actual
24:31
Speaker 1: real life personalities. I don't know, because those are all
24:34
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's different for something like
24:38
Speaker 1: Euphoria because it's being written by by a man for
24:44
Speaker 1: a bunch of actors. I think the difference with what
24:46
Speaker 1: sets Girls apart and why I think Insecure is like
24:50
Speaker 1: why Insecure and Broad City are like almost better, better
24:53
Speaker 1: like parallels to it than even Sex in the City
24:56
Speaker 1: is because it's a it's a writer, creator star, like
25:00
Speaker 1: I think you know Sa Ray like obviously, so much
25:04
Speaker 1: of her is in her character because she is the
25:08
Speaker 1: one writing it, the same way that like Broad City,
25:11
Speaker 1: Abbey and Alana, like they created it as a web series,
25:14
Speaker 1: so I'm sure those characters are really informed by them.
25:17
Speaker 1: In Girls, I think that really shows up in Hannah
25:21
Speaker 1: and Jessa because, um, Lena Dunham and Jemima Kirk are
25:26
Speaker 1: like childhood friends. Um, they like the the short the
25:31
Speaker 1: film that Lena Dunnam made that is what got her
25:34
Speaker 1: the Hollywood attention that led to Girls with Tiny Furniture
25:37
Speaker 1: with jemam m Kirk is also in I think probably
25:42
Speaker 1: Marnie and Showshanna are less informed by their actors than
25:46
Speaker 1: Hannah and Jessa, because like, how could you have be
25:50
Speaker 1: that level of psychotic? I r L. But I mean
25:52
Speaker 1: that's not to say that Alison Williams does not kind
25:54
Speaker 1: of get typecasts in those kind of roles. I mean,
25:56
Speaker 1: just look at like get Out, which is her best work,
25:59
Speaker 1: her best I mean, here's the thing. She's so her
26:02
Speaker 1: acting is like so flat that it works in some places.
26:07
Speaker 1: I don't know that it's flat. I think in Girls,
26:09
Speaker 1: she's like she and Shoshana, Marnie and Trashanna are levels
26:13
Speaker 1: of hysterical on different ends of the spectrum, and Marnie
26:17
Speaker 1: is like this this such a specific type of of
26:21
Speaker 1: white womanhood dialed up to like a twenty five. Yeah
26:26
Speaker 1: it is, And I okay, so real quickly, I haven't
26:29
Speaker 1: I didn't finish Insecure. Um it's like a little too
26:34
Speaker 1: I haven't watched the final season. Yeah, it's a little
26:36
Speaker 1: too heterosexual for me to muscle through. But I know that,
26:38
Speaker 1: like the next time I get like the flu, I'll
26:40
Speaker 1: finish it, you know what I mean, because it is
26:42
Speaker 1: it's the kind of show you need. Yeah, but um,
26:45
Speaker 1: I was gonna say I think here's what I'm trying
26:47
Speaker 1: to say actually about the character to actress thing um,
26:52
Speaker 1: because Lena was already friends with these other three girls.
26:55
Speaker 1: She There's a lot that happened I feel like before
26:59
Speaker 1: the production and started and off camera in order to
27:03
Speaker 1: like cultivate these characters and see I think it felt
27:06
Speaker 1: like a group project to have the four of these
27:09
Speaker 1: women feel so lived in, you know what I mean,
27:13
Speaker 1: and the and the best, And I think Euphorias that too,
27:17
Speaker 1: where the creator really is friends with a lot of
27:19
Speaker 1: the stars of that show and and the show benefits
27:23
Speaker 1: from that the relationship earned between the director slash showrunner
27:27
Speaker 1: and the stars. And I guess, and I guess Euphoria
27:29
Speaker 1: is the latest in this legacy of HBO shows. But
27:33
Speaker 1: now they're teenagers like doing drugs, and like I mean,
27:36
Speaker 1: Euphorian girls obviously don't have anything to do with that
27:39
Speaker 1: with each other. I was just trying to, like, you know,
27:40
Speaker 1: talking about like that there is there is like a
27:44
Speaker 1: cultural legacy, like it is like the HBO Sunday Night show,
27:48
Speaker 1: Like there's I do think something about all of these
27:51
Speaker 1: shows like links them together, even if it's just like
27:54
Speaker 1: the specific context of like where they are like where
27:57
Speaker 1: they are given to people. Um, it's just interesting to
28:01
Speaker 1: see like the way the culture has progressed and almost
28:03
Speaker 1: like the lives that we want to see depicted on
28:08
Speaker 1: screen have gotten younger. Because it started with Sex and
28:11
Speaker 1: the City these women who were in their thirties. Then
28:14
Speaker 1: it was girls who are like immediately post collegiate, and
28:17
Speaker 1: now it's literal teenagers. We're only watching teen soaps? Were
28:20
Speaker 1: all they watching like that? I mean, I guess it's
28:23
Speaker 1: like what other teen soaps are out right now? Like, yeah,
28:28
Speaker 1: what is it about our culture that like, is it
28:31
Speaker 1: the escapism? Is it like the fact that gen z
28:34
Speaker 1: rules culture? But but but then I do think that
28:37
Speaker 1: these teen shows are largely being watched by millennials. Yeah,
28:40
Speaker 1: well I mentioned this briefly when we were recapping when
28:43
Speaker 1: when we did our weekly recap event just like that.
28:46
Speaker 1: But like but like, um, you know, culturally we like
28:49
Speaker 1: to digest things above our age, right, you know, like
28:52
Speaker 1: we're always like aspirational. So when we were teens, we
28:55
Speaker 1: were watching Sex in the City, you know, um, or
28:58
Speaker 1: when you're like in um, when we were in middle
29:01
Speaker 1: school watching shows about being in high school, you know
29:04
Speaker 1: what I mean? And so I feel like we always
29:06
Speaker 1: watch up but like as we reach our like thirties
29:09
Speaker 1: and forties, we're less interested in watching like our own experiences,
29:14
Speaker 1: and so we're looking for the escapism of a teen
29:17
Speaker 1: world that feels relatable because we've lived through it, but
29:20
Speaker 1: still like escapist, you know what I mean. Yeah, And
29:23
Speaker 1: I guess like when you think about the fact that
29:25
Speaker 1: gen Z is like the dominant you know, cultural class
29:28
Speaker 1: right now, and like I guess you know, we were
29:30
Speaker 1: talking last week about representation and like wanting to see
29:33
Speaker 1: yourself on screen like that they they do, and so
29:37
Speaker 1: like they are making this decree that like we will
29:39
Speaker 1: only watch teen shows which we'd like see ourselves are picted.
29:44
Speaker 1: I um, I think that rewatching Girls right now is
29:48
Speaker 1: also a very specific experience because I mean, one, um,
29:52
Speaker 1: watching them all get along and like the first like
29:56
Speaker 1: season is like harrowing. Like this when I watched like
30:00
Speaker 1: dancing in my own like dance thing, which is like
30:02
Speaker 1: kind of an iconic scene from the show, but you
30:04
Speaker 1: watch it watching it retroactively is so harrowing because of
30:07
Speaker 1: how they end up. Right. Well, I just watched So
30:09
Speaker 1: I'm on season three now, and I watched the episode
30:12
Speaker 1: where they go to the Hampton. That is the it is.
30:16
Speaker 1: It's like kind of in a way, it's peak girls.
30:19
Speaker 1: Um that and like Marnie's wedding. Um, it's really the
30:23
Speaker 1: episodes where all four of them were together, because you're
30:26
Speaker 1: reminded that the the foundations of their friendship are so
30:30
Speaker 1: flimsy and rooted in mania, rooted in mania. They all
30:35
Speaker 1: hate each other. They hate each other secretly and then
30:38
Speaker 1: eventually overtly. Yeah, and um, that is very like, that's
30:44
Speaker 1: very real. Well, you know, one of the fantasy aspects
30:47
Speaker 1: of Sex in the City was always like how are
30:49
Speaker 1: they such good friends? Like? How do these people like
30:51
Speaker 1: each other when they're so different? And I think Girls
30:54
Speaker 1: Like is really good at showing like sometimes your friends
30:58
Speaker 1: are people that you have nothing in common with than
31:00
Speaker 1: don't even really like and just feel like you have
31:03
Speaker 1: to keep hanging out with them, or because all you're
31:06
Speaker 1: doing is encouraging and enabling each other's horrible behavior, and
31:09
Speaker 1: because all four of these women are narcissists, sometimes to
31:13
Speaker 1: the point of sociopathy, because they have someone to just
31:17
Speaker 1: enable that all the time, Like, of course they're going
31:19
Speaker 1: to stick together even though they hate each other. You
31:20
Speaker 1: know what I mean, one of the most I think
31:23
Speaker 1: one of the hardest parts to watch, not not because
31:26
Speaker 1: it brought up anything for me, but like literally hardest
31:28
Speaker 1: to watch is the end of season two when Hannah
31:31
Speaker 1: is like when her O C. D comes back. One
31:34
Speaker 1: of the I think most poignant scenes was when Marnie
31:37
Speaker 1: has been thinking she's dating this artist and Hannah has
31:40
Speaker 1: just gotten her book deal but like can't write, and
31:44
Speaker 1: Marnie finds out that this guy is not her boyfriend,
31:48
Speaker 1: and she calls Hannah, and Hannah is like a home
31:50
Speaker 1: dealing with the fact that she can't write, and they're
31:52
Speaker 1: both on the phone like wanting to reach out and
31:56
Speaker 1: ask their friend for help and like not being able
31:59
Speaker 1: to do it, and so lie to each other and
32:01
Speaker 1: saying that their lives are fine, and that to me
32:03
Speaker 1: is like it's so some of these things are so
32:06
Speaker 1: hard to watch because of how real they were to
32:08
Speaker 1: the ways we are with our friends, and like, I'm
32:11
Speaker 1: I feel very lucky that the friends of my life
32:15
Speaker 1: are only people who I could actually call and be like,
32:19
Speaker 1: I mean, as I have with you at least twice
32:22
Speaker 1: this week, call and be like I'm going through it,
32:25
Speaker 1: Like I need to talk about it. I need your
32:27
Speaker 1: support right now. And I guess these women, just like I,
32:30
Speaker 1: didn't have the language to do that with each other
32:33
Speaker 1: until it exploded out of them in ways that we're
32:36
Speaker 1: not productive. But one of the things I love about
32:38
Speaker 1: that Hampton's episode that I watched last night is that
32:42
Speaker 1: they have this whole blow up and then at the
32:44
Speaker 1: end they're like all sitting and waiting for the jitney
32:46
Speaker 1: together and then they start like doing the dance that
32:49
Speaker 1: they all learned, and it's like again, It's like again,
32:52
Speaker 1: it's like showing rather than telling that like this is
32:55
Speaker 1: just another like the thing that has cemented their friendship,
33:00
Speaker 1: but that they're going to hold on to forever, and
33:02
Speaker 1: you know, like twenty years from now, they're gonna be like,
33:04
Speaker 1: oh my god. Like the thing they're going to remember
33:06
Speaker 1: about that trip is not necessarily like the nasty things
33:08
Speaker 1: they said to each other. It's like, remember that dance
33:11
Speaker 1: we learned but we all know and it's so I
33:14
Speaker 1: don't know. It's like it's so sweet and perfect but
33:17
Speaker 1: also like fucked up. I have two remarks. First of all,
33:20
Speaker 1: that episode is Zaha's best work period. Yes, period. Second
33:24
Speaker 1: of all, have you ever had a trip with a
33:26
Speaker 1: friend or friends that turned that took a turn that
33:29
Speaker 1: all got a little nasty. Yes, I've had several because
33:32
Speaker 1: I I feel like I have been on it. I
33:34
Speaker 1: had a trip to Province Town once where I got
33:36
Speaker 1: in like the one and only fight with one of
33:38
Speaker 1: my best friends, and I just remember like we said
33:41
Speaker 1: mortifying things to each other, like like you know, black out,
33:45
Speaker 1: drunk and um, like one night after like leaving a
33:48
Speaker 1: gay bar, and the next morning it was just like
33:52
Speaker 1: what like just like this sobering like just like and
33:58
Speaker 1: just like shamefully walking to the cop, be shopping, apologizing
34:01
Speaker 1: to each other, but like, you know, it was similar
34:04
Speaker 1: to that, like at the end of the day, you
34:05
Speaker 1: just like shake it off and you're like, if we're friends,
34:08
Speaker 1: none of that matters. Obviously, the end of Girls is
34:11
Speaker 1: different because they all figured out that they're not supposed
34:15
Speaker 1: to be friends, kind of like they're not good for
34:17
Speaker 1: each other, which I think is actually such an honest
34:20
Speaker 1: and great way to end the show and it's like
34:22
Speaker 1: so true to life. Yeah, I've had I've had um
34:25
Speaker 1: similar experience as mine. Mine were maybe like a bit
34:28
Speaker 1: more dramatic, Like there was a trip I had on
34:31
Speaker 1: fire Island in which a good friend of mine had
34:32
Speaker 1: like a friend of mine at the time, had like
34:34
Speaker 1: a drug fueled manic episode and like almost like jumped
34:37
Speaker 1: off the boardwalk. Um. So it's like different, like slightly different. Um,
34:44
Speaker 1: but yeah, we've all had those moments like when you're
34:47
Speaker 1: when you it's it's always interesting when you take a
34:51
Speaker 1: relationship out of its normal context and like heighten the stakes.
34:55
Speaker 1: Like I think whenever you go on a trip with someone,
34:58
Speaker 1: it's just like it's just it's just like we house. Well,
35:01
Speaker 1: there's everything. In the Hampton's episode, the first thing they
35:04
Speaker 1: do when they get to the house is fight over
35:06
Speaker 1: which room they're gonna have. This real house was to
35:09
Speaker 1: a t. But that's the thing. You take a bunch
35:11
Speaker 1: of women, especially wealthy women, and you put them in
35:13
Speaker 1: a Petrie dish that is a you know, vacation rental,
35:17
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden it goes, you know, viral.
35:37
Speaker 1: So I will say the main motivator for me doing
35:41
Speaker 1: the Girls Watch outside of you doing a girl's Watch
35:44
Speaker 1: was to see Adam Driver in his prime, because Adam
35:48
Speaker 1: Driver is top three celebrity crushes for me. I don't
35:51
Speaker 1: know if you know that. I didn't know that it
35:54
Speaker 1: really when I tell you that this like weird shovel
35:57
Speaker 1: faced man with like arms the size of like semi
36:00
Speaker 1: trucks has like hit the weirdest point of like all
36:05
Speaker 1: of kind of like I don't know my pleasure centers.
36:08
Speaker 1: I really because I watched the show in college, and
36:11
Speaker 1: because I also I don't know when you watch this,
36:14
Speaker 1: but like I watched the show before I moved to
36:16
Speaker 1: New York. I watched the show before I experienced any
36:19
Speaker 1: of the adulty things that they experienced in the show.
36:22
Speaker 1: And I also feel like I watched this show around
36:25
Speaker 1: the time I was trying to figure out like what
36:27
Speaker 1: my what I was, what I liked during sex, like
36:30
Speaker 1: what my sexual what my sexuality and my sexuality mean,
36:33
Speaker 1: what I like in bed, which takes a long time
36:35
Speaker 1: to cultivate was And so to see Adam Driver and
36:39
Speaker 1: Lena have what is an extremely sexually specific dynamic retroactively,
36:46
Speaker 1: I was like, that is how I like to funk, now,
36:48
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And I don't think it's
36:50
Speaker 1: because of Adam Driver, but I didn't realize it upon
36:53
Speaker 1: first watch that like I love like, you know, weird
36:57
Speaker 1: rough fox and random role play and like giggling, and
37:00
Speaker 1: when guys treat me like ship, it's like kind of
37:02
Speaker 1: hot sometimes, you know what I mean. And I think
37:04
Speaker 1: that they're dynamic is so good and so believable. And
37:10
Speaker 1: and Lena is like, you know, as someone who discovered
37:15
Speaker 1: Adam Driver basically like was so smart to cast someone
37:18
Speaker 1: that you wouldn't expect in that role. Um, but I
37:22
Speaker 1: have you ever had like a a side piece or
37:26
Speaker 1: a funk buddy that was just weird that you never
37:28
Speaker 1: told anyone about? Uh many were you? Like you you
37:33
Speaker 1: you have sex with them regularly, and none of your
37:35
Speaker 1: friends have ever met that. But I think I think
37:37
Speaker 1: what I responded to, like even more so with their
37:42
Speaker 1: dynamic is like the person who, like you, bully your
37:48
Speaker 1: way into their lives, like you know, and that's what
37:51
Speaker 1: as their relationship like falls apart and gets back together again,
37:55
Speaker 1: I you know, like the hook up who becomes a
37:58
Speaker 1: relationship through kind of sheer force of will. Like there's
38:01
Speaker 1: one point in which Adam said, like Adam says to
38:04
Speaker 1: someone like she just wouldn't stop coming around, And eventually
38:08
Speaker 1: I realized, like I wanted to have her there, and
38:11
Speaker 1: like I would rather be with her than be alone um,
38:16
Speaker 1: but also relatable. I've got so many of my relationships
38:20
Speaker 1: have been exactly that thing. Yeah, And I think that
38:23
Speaker 1: there's also something to be said about how murky it
38:27
Speaker 1: is through a lot of these seasons because they don't
38:29
Speaker 1: label what they're going through. And I find that, again
38:33
Speaker 1: very relatable. And yet they kind of play house, you know,
38:36
Speaker 1: they call together, and yet they refused to label a
38:41
Speaker 1: lot I don't I don't remember while they say their partners.
38:43
Speaker 1: I am one of those sick people who do think that,
38:46
Speaker 1: like Adam and Hannah belong together and then and then
38:49
Speaker 1: as we know, but I think that that is kind
38:53
Speaker 1: of paid service to and the fact that so you know,
38:56
Speaker 1: Jesse and Adam get together, Hannah feels in the and
38:59
Speaker 1: I think the final season, Hannah feels incredibly betrayed by
39:03
Speaker 1: it and then finds out she's pregnant, and she and
39:06
Speaker 1: Adam have one episode where they get back together and
39:09
Speaker 1: like see what their lives could be like if they
39:12
Speaker 1: were end game, and ultimately decide like they're not meant
39:16
Speaker 1: for each other, which is I think that they're more
39:19
Speaker 1: meant for each other than she's meant for any of
39:22
Speaker 1: her other three friends. You know what, I mean, like,
39:24
Speaker 1: I think that there's a chemistry that works between her
39:26
Speaker 1: and Adam Driver, but you it's kind of whack. How
39:29
Speaker 1: from episode one of when You Meet Adam Driver to
39:32
Speaker 1: the end of the show where Adam is essentially deciding
39:36
Speaker 1: or rather realizing, that he deserves better than Hannah, you
39:40
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like Hannah is so verruled, le
39:43
Speaker 1: selfish and does he does deserve better than Hannah. But also,
39:47
Speaker 1: like you know, in the end of season two, he
39:50
Speaker 1: starts dating that girl who's played by Sharia Holby, and
39:54
Speaker 1: he like, at first they have this kind of like
39:58
Speaker 1: perfect relationship that he's like, oh my god, this is
40:01
Speaker 1: what a good relationship is supposed to be. Like even
40:04
Speaker 1: during sex, she like tells him exactly what she wants
40:08
Speaker 1: and he's like so mystified by that, and he's like
40:11
Speaker 1: and she's like she literally says like, why wouldn't I
40:13
Speaker 1: tell you what I want? Because he's so used to
40:15
Speaker 1: Hannah not saying what she actually thinks. He's the laziest
40:19
Speaker 1: bottom ever. She's literally like does nothing, Yeah, And he
40:24
Speaker 1: can't wrap his head around that, and then he like
40:26
Speaker 1: falls off the wagon and like treats Sherry Appleby's character
40:30
Speaker 1: like dogshit because that's what he thinks is like what
40:34
Speaker 1: a relationship is, which is kind of amazing, Like that
40:37
Speaker 1: is that is relationship commentary that needs to have you
40:42
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like I felt I feel so
40:44
Speaker 1: reflected in moments like that. But it is so but
40:47
Speaker 1: like Adam does become more and more adult as the
40:49
Speaker 1: show goes on, and it's so like all of the
40:52
Speaker 1: characters have arcs and like pretty big transformation, but Adam
40:56
Speaker 1: Adams is my favorite, like he's my favorite character. Who
40:59
Speaker 1: which girl are you? Um? Oh god, I hate that question.
41:04
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I'm Saja. You think you're I actually
41:08
Speaker 1: think that's true, yeah, because I think I would like
41:11
Speaker 1: to think I no, no, no, no, no no no, I'm
41:14
Speaker 1: Alison Williams. I'm Alison Blames. Do you think? No, I'm
41:19
Speaker 1: not a Martie Rose. I am the girl that brings
41:22
Speaker 1: everyone on vacation. And I say, we are having fun
41:26
Speaker 1: now because this is when we schedule are I was like,
41:30
Speaker 1: if everybody, we have this at seven o'clock and this
41:35
Speaker 1: at nine o'clock and y'all better be ready because you
41:37
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Okay, So you think you think
41:39
Speaker 1: you're a Martie I do not think I know, And
41:44
Speaker 1: I am ashamed by that realization because I am someone
41:48
Speaker 1: who is constantly I am so anal retentive, and I
41:52
Speaker 1: really don't think I am, you know what I mean,
41:55
Speaker 1: Like I think I'm so chill, I think I'm so cool.
41:57
Speaker 1: I'm like I think i'm really you know, when I'm
41:59
Speaker 1: right all the time, Like I always think I'm right,
42:02
Speaker 1: and a lot of times I'm actually trying too hard
42:05
Speaker 1: or I'm making things worse because of that. But you also,
42:08
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think like so much of Marnie's
42:10
Speaker 1: journey in the show is like her realizing that she
42:13
Speaker 1: has no idea what she wants. And you're very You're
42:15
Speaker 1: a very driven person. Yeah. That that's something I don't
42:18
Speaker 1: have in common with Marnie, like she and that's why
42:21
Speaker 1: that's why I think you're more of a Shoshana. Yeah Shoshanna,
42:24
Speaker 1: you know, like packing everything up and moving to Japan,
42:29
Speaker 1: like I've done that, not to Japan, but like moved
42:31
Speaker 1: to like another place, like I've done that multiple times.
42:33
Speaker 1: Um So that is relatable. But I do think at
42:35
Speaker 1: the end of the day, I'm most like Marnie. Um
42:38
Speaker 1: and you are Jemima Kirk, I'm not Jessa. No, I'm Hannah.
42:43
Speaker 1: No no, no, no no no, but I mean you
42:45
Speaker 1: have Hannah qualities, but you're definitely Jim. Do you think, Jess, Yeah,
42:49
Speaker 1: you're You're a cool girl in and out of the
42:51
Speaker 1: live you can like you'll disappear for months and come
42:53
Speaker 1: back and be like, do you want to go to
42:54
Speaker 1: the mall? Like you know, like manic Pixie girl. I
42:57
Speaker 1: have never been told that in these don't fuck about
43:03
Speaker 1: anybody's thoughts. Beliefs are emotions, but you understand them innately,
43:07
Speaker 1: like this is your emotional radical idea. To me, you
43:10
Speaker 1: are emotionally intelligently understand everyone's psychosis, and yet you choose
43:14
Speaker 1: to ignore them if it's like totally like if you're like,
43:17
Speaker 1: this is absolutely something that doesn't deserve my energy right now,
43:20
Speaker 1: Like Jessa is the most grounded character out of the
43:23
Speaker 1: four of them somehow, in some ways, I think I
43:27
Speaker 1: think so because she's the only one out of the
43:30
Speaker 1: four of them that knows who she is, that knows
43:32
Speaker 1: what she wants and almost never compromises that, where the
43:36
Speaker 1: other three are a little more issue Washi and I
43:39
Speaker 1: don't think really know themselves. But Jess is not ambitious,
43:42
Speaker 1: and I am very ambitious. But the thing about Jessa
43:45
Speaker 1: is like her mania and the way that manifests externally
43:48
Speaker 1: is a lot more you know, Um, it fluctuates a
43:51
Speaker 1: lot more. Well, I think I'm a ray. Um that's
43:56
Speaker 1: so funny because like I'm kind of a ray. On
44:14
Speaker 1: the hand of it all, let's just talk about Lena
44:16
Speaker 1: Dunham in the cultural moment of when it came out,
44:19
Speaker 1: everyone hated her. Hated her because, I mean, the more
44:22
Speaker 1: the industry treated her as this like wounder kind, like
44:27
Speaker 1: the more accolades girls received, and like in the first season,
44:31
Speaker 1: it really did it wasn't. I mean, we should maybe
44:33
Speaker 1: look up the stats, but like it definitely like one
44:36
Speaker 1: a ton of awards. It received so much critical praise.
44:39
Speaker 1: But then I think the sharp turn that it wasn't.
44:43
Speaker 1: It was almost more of like a parallel. The more
44:46
Speaker 1: that she was critically praised and like praised by the industry,
44:51
Speaker 1: the more the culture at large hate her, which is
44:55
Speaker 1: the case of a lot of like rising wonder kind
44:58
Speaker 1: or whatever, and it's specifically women. Yeah, well that's what
45:01
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, is I mean, all the things
45:03
Speaker 1: that we can say about Lena Dunhaman why she's problematic
45:05
Speaker 1: have already been said, so um, Like, I feel like
45:08
Speaker 1: it's hard to contribute to the conversation in terms of
45:10
Speaker 1: like their privilege and how these characters manifested, but in
45:13
Speaker 1: terms of like what I feel like, I think that's
45:17
Speaker 1: something that's often missing from the conversation of how we
45:21
Speaker 1: criticize Lena Dunham. And this show specifically was around a
45:24
Speaker 1: lexicon of white womanhood that um became a little bit
45:28
Speaker 1: of a meme around this time, because Girls as a
45:31
Speaker 1: show became a punchline about white women over and over again, right,
45:36
Speaker 1: white womanhood and Lena Dunham off screen as well as
45:39
Speaker 1: on screen, We're like modeling a version of of whiteness
45:44
Speaker 1: that is so insidious and gets away with a lot,
45:47
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, especially in how Lena was
45:50
Speaker 1: acting as a celebrity during this time. And so the
45:53
Speaker 1: way this show became a punchline about white woman head,
45:56
Speaker 1: I think reached a point that was truly misogynistic. Like
46:01
Speaker 1: I think that like when I'm I honestly I'm thinking
46:04
Speaker 1: about like men and gay men specifically, and how there
46:06
Speaker 1: are a lot there were there are a lot of
46:08
Speaker 1: jokes they're like white women, Am I right? And there is,
46:10
Speaker 1: But I think that we don't understand that when we
46:13
Speaker 1: like kind of use white women quote unquote, Like when
46:16
Speaker 1: when when men or like you know, people that benefit
46:18
Speaker 1: from that privilege, like use white woman as like a
46:22
Speaker 1: punch line over and over again. That is a kind
46:25
Speaker 1: of misogyny. And I do also feel like gay men
46:28
Speaker 1: that were criticizing this show at the time, we're using
46:30
Speaker 1: this kind of critique of white womanhood to shield themselves
46:34
Speaker 1: from their own privilege as men. And I think that
46:38
Speaker 1: that attitude is literally given a characterization in the show
46:43
Speaker 1: in the form of Elijah, who's played by Andrew Ranals,
46:46
Speaker 1: who is hilarious but like is so toxic and and
46:50
Speaker 1: it's like an an engine behind a lot of the
46:52
Speaker 1: drama between the friends because remember he fox Marini in
46:57
Speaker 1: season two and drives away between MANI um he and
47:02
Speaker 1: like Hannah kicks him out of her apartment, and he
47:06
Speaker 1: is constantly being a horrible to the girls and like
47:11
Speaker 1: excusing it with his queerness exactly, yes, using queerness as
47:16
Speaker 1: a shield. Queerness quote unquote as a shield. Um. And
47:19
Speaker 1: then there's all I think, obviously the layer on top
47:21
Speaker 1: of all of that is like that phobia, like do
47:23
Speaker 1: you I don't, do you remember? Oh my god, it
47:25
Speaker 1: was It was horrible, so hard because all of the
47:29
Speaker 1: conversation was like, there's so much nudity and girls, there's
47:32
Speaker 1: so much sex and girls, but like what wasn't being
47:35
Speaker 1: said was there shouldn't be because of what Lena Dunham
47:39
Speaker 1: looks like. And there's also less nudity in girls than
47:42
Speaker 1: there isn't sex in the City and like all these
47:45
Speaker 1: other HBO shows that have nudity all the time, like
47:47
Speaker 1: I remember. So there's an episode in season two, guest
47:50
Speaker 1: starring Patrick Wilson where Hannah meets this man through her
47:53
Speaker 1: job at the coffee shop, and the episode is like
47:55
Speaker 1: a bottle episode where she spends this whirlwind weekend with
47:59
Speaker 1: him that basically is like an entire relationship over the
48:03
Speaker 1: course of one weekend. And the conversation about it at
48:07
Speaker 1: the time was that this is so unrealistic, this is
48:10
Speaker 1: a dream sequence because he's too hot for her, he
48:13
Speaker 1: would never fuck her. As if fat women aren't having
48:17
Speaker 1: sex every day every corner of the world. It's it's
48:22
Speaker 1: very strange and like I guess for me now it's
48:25
Speaker 1: different now watching it like as some as like a
48:28
Speaker 1: fat woman, Whereas when I was like watching this when
48:32
Speaker 1: it was airing, I did not identify as a woman,
48:35
Speaker 1: and so it's like a very different experience. But like
48:38
Speaker 1: I can't imagine what it was like for her at
48:42
Speaker 1: that time. And I'm sure she's talked about it. I'm
48:44
Speaker 1: sure she's written about it, but like to have a
48:47
Speaker 1: like every day think piece about your body, like oh
48:52
Speaker 1: my god, that's horrible. And I'm not saying it excuses
48:54
Speaker 1: anything that she's done or who she is, but like
48:57
Speaker 1: it's still fucking crazy. I think a lot of the
49:00
Speaker 1: I think a lot of the reaction, in addition to
49:02
Speaker 1: fat phobia, had to do with the execution, because when
49:04
Speaker 1: you think about sex in the city or like HBO
49:07
Speaker 1: shows of that time, sex scenes still had like stunning
49:12
Speaker 1: like lighting in shadows, a lot more modesty, like mostly
49:16
Speaker 1: you only see tits and usually it's like covered up.
49:19
Speaker 1: A lot of time there was a lot more kind
49:20
Speaker 1: of like coinness around how they would do nudity in
49:24
Speaker 1: some of the raunch r HBO shows where Hannah Horvath
49:27
Speaker 1: is in you know, bad lighting, full bush full nudity
49:32
Speaker 1: like and not not in like nice positions he shot
49:37
Speaker 1: in the most like unflattering way, but not like not
49:41
Speaker 1: like gratuitously unflattering, but just like very matter of fact,
49:45
Speaker 1: which watching today still felt radical, like are you watching?
49:49
Speaker 1: Still felt radical to me. And there are shows that
49:51
Speaker 1: I think have done like I hate I hate this term,
49:55
Speaker 1: but like body positivity better, like I think Shrill is
49:58
Speaker 1: a much better explorer of like fatness and like being
50:02
Speaker 1: a fat woman such. Yes, And I also think the
50:06
Speaker 1: final season was really good too. I haven't finished yet,
50:08
Speaker 1: There'll be another flu watch. Yes. Do you remember when
50:11
Speaker 1: um Lena was on the cover of Vogue and they
50:15
Speaker 1: released like some stunning any Leviowitz photos and Jezebel was like,
50:19
Speaker 1: we will offer ten thousand dollars to the person who
50:23
Speaker 1: shows us the unretouched photos of thing that Donna is
50:27
Speaker 1: d disgusting. And do you remember when Jezebel was like
50:30
Speaker 1: the cream of the crop, like creme to la creme,
50:32
Speaker 1: like best journalism, like nothing was more exciting than Jezebel,
50:35
Speaker 1: and they had it out for her. Yes, And Jezebel
50:37
Speaker 1: was even kind of like a character on the show,
50:39
Speaker 1: like when Hannah in season two gets a job writing
50:43
Speaker 1: it blogging for like a click baity website. It's very
50:46
Speaker 1: obviously a Jezebel stand in. Yeah, and it's so I
50:48
Speaker 1: remember Lena like tweeting being like people paying ten grand
50:52
Speaker 1: for my nudes just subscribe to HBO, like it's all
50:55
Speaker 1: unretouched girl, Like what the fun? Um? Yeah, I mean
50:59
Speaker 1: that that's I think emblematic of a lot of things
51:01
Speaker 1: that were going on at the time, but just Lena
51:03
Speaker 1: hate in general. Like I used to be a Lena hater.
51:06
Speaker 1: I mean, I still don't like a lot of things
51:08
Speaker 1: about Lena, but I think I can appreciate her our
51:10
Speaker 1: own in a way that I didn't in my like
51:12
Speaker 1: early New York years, because like I don't know if
51:17
Speaker 1: I've toil do this. Um, you know, I used to
51:19
Speaker 1: date my first boyfriend in New York was this guy
51:21
Speaker 1: who like loved girls and loved Lena Dunham, and like
51:24
Speaker 1: I remember throughout our relationship really resenting that about them
51:27
Speaker 1: about him and feeling like he was basic because that
51:30
Speaker 1: was like his favorite show, you know, And I had
51:32
Speaker 1: kind of moved past that end my life, and um,
51:35
Speaker 1: when we broke up, it was like really horrible. It's
51:37
Speaker 1: like a really tough breakup for me. He was the
51:39
Speaker 1: only time I've ever been broken up with. I'm always
51:41
Speaker 1: the breaker reppert Um and um, here's not you. That
51:46
Speaker 1: was really hard for me. Um, and so I just
51:48
Speaker 1: like really really hated him post breakup. It was like
51:51
Speaker 1: a torrential kind of like drawn out thing. And Um,
51:55
Speaker 1: weeks after we broke up, he called me and I
51:57
Speaker 1: was thinking, like, oh my god, does he want to
51:59
Speaker 1: get back together there? Does he want to have to talk?
52:01
Speaker 1: Is he finally going to statiate all these outline questions
52:03
Speaker 1: that I still have about our breakup or whatever. He
52:06
Speaker 1: was like, Hi, I'm so sorry. Um, I have gon
52:10
Speaker 1: arehea and also syphilis. And I'm not sure if I
52:15
Speaker 1: got it like after we dated, or if I got
52:18
Speaker 1: it with the person that I slept with while we
52:20
Speaker 1: were dating. Oh god, it's like a girl's episode. I
52:23
Speaker 1: didn't know that he had cheated on me, it was,
52:26
Speaker 1: and so I found out on that phone call that
52:28
Speaker 1: he had slept with someone else, and I was like, cool, great, cool, cool, cool.
52:30
Speaker 1: I didn't have gnoihea syphilis. Um, but he did mail
52:34
Speaker 1: me a signed copy of Lena Dunham's book that came
52:38
Speaker 1: out at that exact time, and it literally I literally
52:41
Speaker 1: still have her memoir like two fran Love Lena as
52:46
Speaker 1: a sorry almost gave you gonaiha gift, which is honestly
52:51
Speaker 1: worse than the Gnareha because I can get rid of Gnaia,
52:54
Speaker 1: but I can't selve his book. I have it for life.
52:57
Speaker 1: You know, I don't think I like I think, and
53:00
Speaker 1: this is hard for me to say. I think I
53:03
Speaker 1: wanted to be her a little bit at the time,
53:06
Speaker 1: because you know, I mean, you're you were talking about
53:08
Speaker 1: like where you were in your life when Girls was
53:10
Speaker 1: coming out. I was in two thousand two, in two
53:14
Speaker 1: thousand twelve when the show would have come out, Like
53:16
Speaker 1: I was exactly the age of the I was almost
53:19
Speaker 1: exactly the age of the characters in the show. I
53:22
Speaker 1: like wanted to be I wanted to do what she
53:25
Speaker 1: was doing. Um, I don't think I wanted to be
53:28
Speaker 1: her specifically, but like I saw in her someone who
53:32
Speaker 1: was so ambitious and like, you know, I think at
53:35
Speaker 1: the time it was like starting to come out how
53:38
Speaker 1: like connected she was and how much of this like
53:41
Speaker 1: was about nepotism. But like obviously even with that nepotism,
53:44
Speaker 1: she none of this would have happened without her incredible
53:47
Speaker 1: talent um, and I think there was some part of
53:51
Speaker 1: me that like was kind of inspired by her. Anybody
53:55
Speaker 1: that has aspirations to make TV, which you and I
53:57
Speaker 1: both do, like will rise end. We are very free
54:01
Speaker 1: to have meetings. Yeah exactly, Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, if
54:04
Speaker 1: you want to slide into our dm s and talk
54:06
Speaker 1: about I want to talk to us about our writing projects.
54:08
Speaker 1: We definitely have them. I literally, I mean, I literally
54:10
Speaker 1: have I mean I feel like every you know, fag
54:12
Speaker 1: working in Hollywood has a four Friends leaving in Brooklyn
54:16
Speaker 1: linked pilot. But but like that five friends, yeah, but
54:19
Speaker 1: of course yes, like of course I have a pilot
54:23
Speaker 1: like that, you know what I mean. But like I
54:25
Speaker 1: think it's a testament to how that format works and
54:27
Speaker 1: how I personally will actually never g tired of that show,
54:32
Speaker 1: like I will always want to show about four Friends
54:35
Speaker 1: and whatever that era of New York is like, because
54:38
Speaker 1: New York is changing all the time, and also who
54:40
Speaker 1: those friends are, because we have only still seen very
54:45
Speaker 1: specific permutations of it. We still haven't seen the queer
54:49
Speaker 1: version of it. No, I still have not, And like, yes,
54:53
Speaker 1: I know we have things like queer as Folk, which
54:56
Speaker 1: are like the closest approximation, but we haven't. We have
54:59
Speaker 1: not had this. There has not been a version of
55:03
Speaker 1: the like young people living in New York coming of
55:07
Speaker 1: age story told about queer people. So if you want
55:09
Speaker 1: to read my Pilot sad and return about that as
55:11
Speaker 1: a kind of trans sex in the city, you just
55:13
Speaker 1: slide into my DM mama because she is already. These
55:17
Speaker 1: shows will be made until the end of time, and
55:19
Speaker 1: they will always be both referencing and deconstructing the versions
55:24
Speaker 1: of themselves that came before them, exactly exactly period. We
55:35
Speaker 1: will be back next week with a discussion on Nicole Kidman,
55:39
Speaker 1: The Woman, the Myth, the Legend, heartbreak will feel good
55:42
Speaker 1: on a podcast like this, um please um. You know,
55:46
Speaker 1: watch your favorite Nicole Kidman movie and anticipation. Um. And
55:52
Speaker 1: you know you could always like tweeted us and tell
55:55
Speaker 1: us which which Nicole Kidman properties you want us to
55:57
Speaker 1: talk about us your stories? Also Instagram our new Instagram
56:01
Speaker 1: like a virgin for nine. Also like tell us what
56:04
Speaker 1: you think about this girl's episode? What's your favorite episode
56:07
Speaker 1: of Girls? Are you a Hannah Amarti a Jessa a Showshana?
56:11
Speaker 1: Are you a Ray? Are you an Adam and um
56:15
Speaker 1: tell us what to talk about next, whether it's you know,
56:17
Speaker 1: a show, a book, a cultural phenomenon. We want to
56:19
Speaker 1: hear from you, and I think that you can call
56:22
Speaker 1: us or also like We love it when you slide
56:24
Speaker 1: into our d M, so tag our Instagram and tell
56:27
Speaker 1: us like what you want us to watch And of
56:29
Speaker 1: course you can call to confess at three two three repentance.
56:32
Speaker 1: That's three to three seven three six two three two six.
56:36
Speaker 1: Leave us a review on Apple podcasts. We love to
56:39
Speaker 1: see them. I'm your co host Rose Damn You. You
56:42
Speaker 1: can find me anywhere on social media at Rose Damn
56:45
Speaker 1: You and I'm friends Squishco. You can find me anywhere
56:48
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Speaker 1: a Virgin anywhere you listen to podcasts. Leave us a
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Speaker 1: review on Apple podcast or raining on Spotify. Like a
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Speaker 1: Virgin is an i Heeart radio production. Our producers Phoebe Unter,
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Speaker 1: with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Cranechitch and
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Speaker 1: Nikki Etour. Until next week see later. Virgins Me