Latest / The Long Burn / Episode 21 - Generalists, Specialists, and Burnout

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Episode 21 - Generalists, Specialists, and Burnout · The Long Burn

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Long Burn Podcast.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: This is Dr.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Jonathan Wade here with my best buddy Joel Mallon.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Joel said.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Joel.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: There's Joel.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, we're back for this episode, and today we've got a really unique show.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's kind of interesting because we're going to take a little bit different perspective on things from both sides of the fence, but we're kind of titling this sort of uh people management generalists versus specialists, and and kind of how do we work through that as a business owner and what is it like on the other side of that from the employee standpoint?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, Joel, I want to let you kind of kind of rock and roll with this to begin with, and and I'll throw in my input from that owner standpoint.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I mean, we talked a little bit just for us to kind of orient on our topic today.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I'm I'm kind of addressing this more from the employee side, and Jonathan's taking more of a viewpoint from the employer side.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've never had employees.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've definitely been like team leads and worked in those different capacities, but never was I responsible for the person hiring, paying somebody else, stuff like that.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, just recently um I ended up uh uh get looking at changing, changing jobs and everything else.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so um I had an exit interview, and so you know, my manager did the the nice thing, did an exit interview and said, you know, hey, what are we doing well?
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Where do we still need to improve and stuff like that?
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it kind of was the same story that I've had during my uh employment experience, you know, for the past 20 plus years or whatever it might be.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I started working when I was like 14, so um uh over, I guess, 36 or 26 years of employment.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I work for a lot of organizations and I see different types of people in the workforce.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of what I see is the people who just want to show up, do a job, and go home.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of businesses need that because a lot of times those people do get a job and they stay there for a long period of time.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: You've got some knowledge, continuity, and different things like that.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a good thing.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: But then you've got other people that want to be innovative.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: They want to find ways of having self-expression in what they do, they want to leverage their different skill sets in what they do.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: But the problem is, and so this is kind of reflecting back on the conversation we had last week with Adam, you know, that that, you know, he didn't like the uniformity that was in the corporate model.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't like um kind of some of the policy and everything else that was more limiting than it was helpful.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's a specific type of person that's looking for the opportunity to break out of that model versus some people like the safety that the model provides.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you think about it, you know, we talk about in whether it's the workforce and society and community, whatever it is, is diversity is celebrated.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that we want to have a diverse workforce, uh, different cultures and races and backgrounds and experiences and families and everything else until it comes to the job description.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then we expect that everybody can do exactly the same thing at the same speed with the same outcome and output.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that doesn't make any sense to me.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that does not make any sense to think that people are gonna operate on the same wavelength coming from these different aspects of diversity.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so, kind of what the I think of it is is when you have a someone that comes on as a generalist, you know, this is the idea of like a cog mindset.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like you were just a cog and a wheel, you know, and and again, so there's some people that they like that.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: They like that there's not a lot of stress involved with it.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's not a lot of um onus, so to speak.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the problem with that is that not everybody feels that way, you know, and so then you have the person who is the specialist that maybe they bring a lot to the table in these other areas that are outside of the generalist perspective, but they're the ones that are the force multipliers.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: They're the ones that are bringing this innovation into the business and bringing new ideas that having to be kind of corralled into the cog mindset, it thwarts creativity, it creates burnout, they lose passion, they use productivity.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the last time that I looked at the average that anyone stays at um any job in today's workforce is roughly two years.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I've heard the phrase before that they say people don't quit jobs, they quit managers.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so, with that being the case, you know, I know that there's a lot of companies that have, you know, policies, uniformity, and stuff like that.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: But from a managerial perspective, you know, are you able to lean into the strengths of the individual?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've had the opportunity, um, you know, years ago when I was working in Chattanooga, Tennessee, I was working for a company called Unum and we were doing uh family medical leave.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was one of the fastest processors that they had, but what I enjoyed doing was being a mentor and a trainer.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so even though like I may have been a great performer, producer, whatever you want to call it, I'm still never gonna be as productive as three new people that I've trained.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can't potentially do the work of three, four, five people.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so, in my opinion, what was a better fit for me in a specialist role was to be a trainer.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've already proven that I had the skill set to do those things.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so, you know, but I still had to have a caseload to sell how to do those things, but I was limited in how much I could teach and train and empower because I was pushed into that generalist role.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so, you know, I did, I enjoyed my job the most whenever I could lean fully into the mentoring and training specialty.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so of course, you know, moving on to into other areas.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, even before that, uh, whenever I was in the army, um, my job was to be a chaplain's assistant.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I had a very uh trusting chaplain that he knew that if he gave me something, that I would run with it until there was success, that it would be a good positive outcome.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so that included event organizing organizing, that it was um planning, which some of the contracts that I had to plan for.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we were the first unit ministry team that did a um a pre-deployment retreat.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: We actually did it in Canada.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so we had to work out the logistics of how do we get across the border with you know roughly a hundred people and um to work out all the logistics of that.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so I loved the challenge associated with that.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, this is something no one has done yet.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so when we went to contracting, they're like, you can't do that.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, well, why not?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, well, we've never done it before.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, well, that doesn't mean we can't.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so they were like, well, you're right.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so we we stuck with it long enough that finally we were able to work that out.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: And we went to Niagara Falls on the Canadian side because if nobody's ever been, the Canadian side's way better.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, you know, I love these opportunities to specialize, to find a challenge to do something that hasn't been done that way before.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's what really motivates me.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so if he would just said, no, we've got this this place here in town that we've already got a contract worked up with them, and that's easy.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want easy.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: I want new, I want challenging, I want exciting, I want innovative, you know, and and that's me personally.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so that means that because of that mindset, I'm not always a good fit for specific jobs.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I recognize that, you know, I I don't necessarily see that as a flaw in me, but it's something where I have to recognize when I have become, you know, a poor fit for specific generalist positions.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I've I've I've endured that in a bunch of different aspects in um in my career.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so most recently, you know, working in um doing clinical counseling and things like that, having to do social work.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um my education is not in social work or case management.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, sometimes it feels like you are a professional parent to adults working in that capacity.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Not saying it's not necessary, not saying it's not needed, and not saying that there aren't people who do a wonderful job at it.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: But for me personally, it's draining.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it has to slow everything so much down that I end up feeling that cog mindset.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like I had plenty of bandwidth uh in my previous job doing videos and pictures and hosting events and you know, running sound and doing all this other stuff, as well as you know, doing group trainings and lectures and briefs and all this other stuff.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I love to do.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: But once these other generalist roles um came up on me, all that went out the door.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I didn't have the bandwidth to continue doing that, and my desire to remain there really waned over time.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, looking at your your business, I recognize that each industry is different.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: But what are some of the needed uh principles or needed uh aspects that contribute to the success?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is the force multiplier idea.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, is there someone on your workforce that does their job well but has an interest in marketing, that has an interest in photography, videography, that enjoys public speaking and would represent the company well?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, are are these people empowered to have these roles or are they thwarted and compressed into that generalist role?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think this looks in a lot of different ways, but so just to check in with you, Jonathan, so so so far, like um, how have you seen that play out in some of the experiences you've had working in the hospital system as a doctor with whether it be nurses, different things like that?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I I think when you get into a a big system like that, like Adam and I were in within that hospital, I mean, you almost feel like you are forced into that that cog position because you don't necessarily have a say.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we would do medical staff meetings, we would do protocol reviews, and it we always would say at the end of the meeting, well, they've already done, they've already set this at the big house.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: We were a little small, you know, ancillary hospital, so it didn't matter really what we decided because it already been decided for us.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: So um you know, so I I I think in in big, big business like that, yeah, everybody, at least that's not in the C-suite area, probably turns into a cog.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I know that that when we started Orchard Health and got big enough to where we needed to hire employees, um I think we really started in those early phases as generalists.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: We needed people that could come in and cross-cover, we could cross-train them, they could work the pharmacy, they could work the front, they could take blood pressures, they could put stuff in the EMR.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: And and then as we've gotten bigger and grown, we're able to take more of that specialist approach.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: When we hire somebody, we look for certain characteristics.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: We want them to fit the culture like we've talked about, but they need to to fit a specific job that they can be super at, um you know, versus just just a little bit of everything.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: But but I also think there's something here uh that that we look for.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's called the sort of the T-shape model.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and Joel, I think you don't give yourself enough credit because I think you are a force multiplier, and I do think you are this T-shaped model, and that's somebody that can can you know work broad enough across all the things you can do the social work, you can do some of these things.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: You may not want to, but there are certain things that you can go vertical and deep on too.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: So not only can you do a lot of things, there are certain things that you can do super, super well.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and so that's where I view you as a force uh you know multiplier to where you can you may have to do things occasionally that are that are not your favorite thing, but the more we can specialize and grow the business, then I can keep you on the deep.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: I can keep you on the vertical, not the horizontal aspect, you know, uh of the T.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then the last part of that too is when you start hiring specialists, it's trying to find somebody that can do it better than you as the owner.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that's that's my job.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Is as the founder, as the owner, the most important job that I do in that role is to hire correctly.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you were with us years ago when when we we were trying to expand and we've talked about this Valda office story.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't hire very well.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Those people didn't meet the culture, they didn't last, and so we've changed the way we do this and and try to find people.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: We can teach them the job, we can teach them how to change the medical record, we can teach them how direct primary care works, but they've got to have that cultural fit and and be able to find it.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And and I I think we've done a great job at that.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think even the people that we brought on as generalists were actually these T-shaped people because uh we got a pharmacy tech that is fantastic at running our our in-house pharmacy.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: She can also answer clinical questions, check people in, schedule appointments, and and do things from a from a front desk nursing perspective, even that that you know she shouldn't necessarily have to do, but at this point she can do it.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, and then we've got nurses that can fill meds, but they they're very good at drawing blood, starting IVs, answering clinical questions from a telehealth standpoint.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I I think we all should aspire to have a team of specialists, but it's also important to realize there are, like you said, there's a place in there for the generalists or hopefully these T-shaped folks, so that people can take time off.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: People, if they're out, if they're sick, you know, your business doesn't suffer.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I think that a way of thinking about it is the generalist aspect or idea is the foundation.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think every organization needs people to have a similar skill set.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's normal.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: But what if you have someone who has owned that that foundation?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't allow some room for them to specialize, you're essentially telling them, hey, you've peaked.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's as far as you can go.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where that burnout occurs.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think they say it takes anywhere from six months to a year to become comfortable in any new job or any new role.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then what?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like is that it?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, is that the last challenge I'm gonna have while I work here?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because the idea is that dragging employees through any tasks that they hate or a skill that they lack or that they don't even want to develop, you think that it builds character.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: But what it actually does is it builds friction.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that friction that that employee then experiences, it generates heat.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Heat leads to uh that burnout, you know, that that they are now fired up, that they're they're frustrated, they're annoyed.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, someone that was for a while, let's say for the first year or two, two years even, that they were a productive, excited employee, but all of a sudden that starts to drift, it starts to go away because they're not content with that foundation.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they want to grow, they want to go somewhere else.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so, especially in like job positions where let's say that you're um you're you know, working as like a lot of times, either you're working as a clinician or you're a supervisor.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's only so many supervisor positions available.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't have the opportunity to move up in a position, well, then you're stuck.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: So then what's the likelihood you stay with the organization?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, super low.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: And in today's market, people have to leave a job um to go find something else for a time and can come back to the same job, even sometimes the same position, to actually finally get a pay bump.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and that's to me, that's that is not recognizing the skill set of the individual.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of it is like there's a frustration of incompetence that happens.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: So for someone who has no problem being the generalist and doing all the foundational stuff, and they have the aspiration, the opportunity, and the bandwidth to do more, and they're doing that.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then there's a frustration where it's like, well, hold on, because I'm doing all this extra stuff, and this other person over here that's barely, you know, doing their job makes the same money that I do.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, so why am I trying?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like what's the incentive?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this isn't benefiting me or my family.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, sure, I'm accomplishing my values, but we don't get a job just to accomplish our values.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: We do that to to boost our family, to boost our future.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so someone who has that energy and that drive that is then thwarted and corraled into that position, they leave.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want it anymore.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I I think it even uh it's a trajectory thing.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: It it supersedes, I think, even a compensation type issue.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: If if they view that they've hit their ceiling uh from a growth perspective, from a specialization perspective, or that the business has, that the business has sort of lost direction.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: They they thrive off of that.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's one of the uh Candace and I'm when we first hired folks, people management is the most difficult part of running a business because everybody's different, everybody's motivations are different, everybody's you know, reward system, love language, whatever you want to call it, is different.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so you have to manage their successes and their failures in different ways.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Some people respond better by by stern, you know, no pulling no strings, this is what you did wrong, and they're great.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: You do that to somebody else, and they're gonna go home and cry or or or they're gonna feel feel threatened.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, so so it's learning that about your employees, but then I think also challenging them to meet that growth opportunity, and that's where they have to feel like they've got some kind of of ownership versus telling them what to do.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Say, here's the goal I want you to accomplish.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care how you get there, you know, but but but get there.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the time frame I need it in.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: You give them strict instructions on on the things that you need, but let them figure out the process.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I think fuels a force multiplier.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, versus just the the torpedo.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: And people want to be seen, they want to be heard, and they'll be valued for what they bring to the table.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that it could be the play of the point that an employee outgrows an organization because they can't, they can't do, you know, to the level that they want to.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like let's say if me accomplishing my 100% or at least 80% is where I feel satisfied, but what the baseline or the foundation of the generalist role is is only 50 or 60% of my capacity, I'm never gonna feel fulfilled doing that.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna feel frustrated.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna feel bored, I'm gonna feel annoyed with it.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, working with certain populations, sometimes your scope is limited.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: So you end up having the same conversation over and over and over to the point that you're just like, man, I'm not even sure I'm who I'm talking to.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that sounds terrible from a clinician standpoint, but it's like when you see this the same story and circumstances so many times, it's hard not to have that glazed over uh effect or of approaching the situation.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a burnout, that's a burnout aspect for sure.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever you start to paint everybody into the same outcome or the same picture.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, a way of working with this is, you know, do people know what their strengths are?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, sometimes people do, sometimes people aren't sure.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes, you know, you need that uh outside observation in order to help them identify that.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: But if you conduct like a, let's say, an energy and a strengths audit of your um your population, your employee population, say what is your what is something that is a high skill that builds high energy?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's this that's the superpower of that individual.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like for me, I always love doing um trainings.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: I love speaking in groups.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: I've got no problem.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, you know, get you know, performance anxiety or anything like that.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: I love the energy in the room whenever you're teaching a group of people something.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is something that that you know, if you focus on that superpower, that employee then has new passion, renewed passion for what they're doing.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: So what if something is high skill um but brings low energy?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like, hey, they're really good at it, but they don't get you know any satisfaction from its draining.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: That should be something delegated.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: That should go to somebody else who maybe feels indifferent about it.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, I can do it, it's fine.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what about something that is requires very little skill, but brings high energy?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they are like so maybe they need to, that's a growth area.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to train the individual to you know develop this low skill area into something that could be very energizing, you know.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then the last one is low skill, low energy.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is the burnout zone.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: This is something that you're not good at, you don't want to do, it gives you no job satisfaction.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: This is a clear area that needs to be eliminated, you know, or automated somehow, or reassign it to another person that does not feel the same way.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but here's the issue.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Is so pop quiz, Jonathan.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: Why do why do employ or employers, managers not do these things?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because it takes time.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: It takes time.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: And every good business owner knows that your people are your biggest investment.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: That your your staff, your team that you're developing, hopefully intentionally developing, is your greatest asset.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so it takes too much time to identify what is the skill point of this individual.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Are they satisfied here and everything else?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we just keep pushing tasks onto people without getting that feedback.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes people aren't assertive enough to actually say, hey, I really don't want to do this.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: I really, this uh this really drains me and everything else.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: So there's there's assertiveness that needs to happen on both sides.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: You need an intentional, assertive manager who asks the questions, but you also need an intentional, assertive employee that gives, you know, honest feedback.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Not just, yeah, love working here, man.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll see you tomorrow.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Have a good weekend, happy Monday, you know, all this other stuff.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, instead of you know, just fixing the weakness of the individual, you know, find out like why is this such a pain point for you?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what is it about this that you're resistant to it?
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I will tell you that my mind uh purges information that has no utility to me.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if I have no application for information, it's gone.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: It does not get retained whatsoever.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so there were some processes that we had on some of the documentation, and I realized that for six months I forgot to do this certain process.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: How many times do you think that came up on an audit?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, a lot, I'm sure.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Over six months.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Never, never, never.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: This was a process that they were told that I was told it was had to be done.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: But in my mind, this did not impact the outcome whatsoever, did not benefit me as a clinician, did not benefit the client.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Clearly was not even being monitored by management.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that explains why this is something I didn't want to do because it created burnout, because it was completely unnecessary and benefited nobody.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Now busy work.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not trying to be like, oh, uh you're just not a team player or you're a resistant employee.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm telling you, if this doesn't make sense, My brain is going to get rid of it.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and so a lot of like I'm a big question question guy.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a why person.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not challenging you when I ask why.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: I want to know the information that you have that's that made it seem like this was a good choice because then that's growth and learning and knowledge that I now have.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: If I can understand your point of logic on that.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but a lot of times that questioning is seen as challenging, and and a lot of times that is not the intention behind it.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I'm trying to find a reason that I want to do this.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm trying to find a reason that this is something that I should be better at.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can't give me one, then my brain just wants to throw it out the window.
• 22:39
  unknown: Yeah.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, when you when you talk about those kind of four different components of things that, you know, either are high value or light you up or get you excited.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: I I think back about Dan Martell's perfect week, and I think Dan Sullivan had something else in one of the books and podcasts I've listened to, where you kind of take 15-minute increments of your entire week and and write down what you've done, and then kind of go back and you you highlight in green the things that you know really kind of brought you energy and were high value.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yellow were kind of in the middle, and red were things that like you just despise doing.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because ultimately, if you can take those red things and then find somebody in your organization, there's bound to be somebody that that lights them up.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they they like to go through emails, they like to organize you know, whatever.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think we've seen that here recently at the office.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: I've been trying to create some systems, do some SOPs, and we've used a computerized system to kind of do that.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I've I've sort of divvied up different tasks to different employees based off of kind of what they do with the different systems or different different uh uh tech platforms.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I can tell there's some folks that like that by the end of the day, they're like, I'm done.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: I got all I got all 10 of those done.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, then at the end of the week, I've got some, oh, I haven't I don't even know where my sheet is, I've lost it.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and and so then I I ask the person who got it done in a day, hey, can can you help out with this?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: But then I find something to to push back onto the person.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: It clearly didn't light them up.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't, it didn't excite them to do that.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think it's something you're right.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: You our employees are our biggest investment, and we always have to try to find ways to challenge them, encourage them, and and feed, feed them things in the work environment that that excite them, get get them excited to do something.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I've I mean, as a I'm a I love being around people.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: I love meeting new people, I love hearing people's story, I love meeting new clients and kind of you know, finding out what we're gonna work on and stuff like that.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: I've got I've got colleagues that they're like, I don't really want to do one-on-one therapy anymore.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, wow, well, what the heck did you go into this line of work for?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: But there's still viable ways they can be utilized.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know what they want to do?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: They want to do QAs.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they want to go through and they want to write policy, you know, that makes sense.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they want to do all that.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: But because they're in this mandated generalist perspective, they're becoming burned out doing something that does not motivate them when it would offload tasks from management because then the people who love to be around others that get really like me, they get jazzed seeing a lot of clients and stuff like that.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we could be free to go do that stuff because then we're not bogged down in the muck and the mire of the QAs, the documentation, the paperwork.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of this is on obviously managers don't write the SOPs.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: However, they have the opportunity in the ear of the person where they can push back and they can say, hey, we don't think this is a good policy.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: We we see people who are burning out, we're getting all this feedback that says this is not a good fit, you know, all this other stuff.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: What flexibility can we have within this?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and so maybe it's maintain a very, if it's if a generalist aspect is required, keep a very small one-on-one caseload and then free that person up to do the thing that that excites them.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of times you have managers that don't want to put themselves in the hot seat, that they don't want to be the one to rock the boat, they don't want to be the one to challenge status quo because it takes time.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: And also a lot of people like to stay under the radar.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Don't know me, don't know who I am, don't know what I do, just let me go to work and go home.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a cog manager is someone that should never be a manager.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like if that's all you want to do, like it's just, you know, stay under the radar.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: You've got people that want you to fight for them.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you just want to be a cog, you're selling those people short and they will leave your organization.
• 26:26
  unknown: Yeah.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think that it's something that we've talked about here with multiple um guests and just in general, it is again, it's that culture.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you know, you want that culture where you want people to thrive and and exceed.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we routinely hear uh take take comments, um, suggestions from our employees.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: They see something that's happening, good, bad, or ugly, and and they make a suggestion.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: I tell them all the time, don't come here with a problem, come here with a solution.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: And if you see something that's not going well that could be done different, let's figure it out.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that now.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now that's taken, you know, four or five years for them to realize that that's what I'm asking for.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not trying to, you know, skimp out on my job.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: I want them to take some ownership in some of the things that they're doing because then they'll do it.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: They'll do it better than me and they'll keep up with it better than me.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing that I've seen is, you know, talking about getting the feedback of employees and things like that.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, working in government sector and stuff is a lot of times they'll have like a comment box or something like that.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: So somebody will make a comment about someone else that it's an and it's anonymous, right?
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's all anonymous.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we want to keep this a safe space.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it's all anonymous.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know who's reporting this.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what the circumstance was where they were offended or bothered by whatever it was.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: And management says, well, we can't go to that individual because it was anonymous, or we can't tell you who it was because that valid that uh prevents their privacy or confidentiality and stuff like that.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, well, now you've got a problem floating out there that nobody knows where it came from or why it happened.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know who said it.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: So guess what happens?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: Is everybody gets on pins and needles.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody stays in their office, everybody stays to themselves.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they they stop being a motivated employee because they're afraid that someone is watching them or going to report on them for something that they don't even know about.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, this idea of going through the energy matrix, the high skill, high energy, high skill, low energy, low skill, high energy, and low skill low energy.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you can find that and you get all of your employees to complete something like that, well, what you've essentially done is you've just created work groups because you're finding out the different aspects that people want to develop themselves in, and you can group this thing together.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: The problem is that, you know, again, the the demand for diversity is well, we don't want clicks in the office.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you do.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: You want people, not clicks that are that are you know exclusive or something like that.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: You want people that work well as a team.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Not everybody works well as a team.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you identify people who excel in these certain areas and you find a way that you can link these people together, that's a huge force multiplier.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, versus you know, segregating everyone apart from each other, worried about who's talking about who and stuff like that, and people just stay in their lane.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: People want to be seen, people want to be effective and productive.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so that going through this and creating these cross-functional, like we'll just call them pods of people, you know, that do these things.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like now, this individual who maybe is a specialist and great in an area now has support.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: They're not just flying by themselves, you know.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: They actually have feedback, they have to other teammates, they have input and everything else.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you want that because otherwise, like let's say you've got one person who does marketing.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, guess who the face of the organization has become?
• 29:41
  unknown: Yeah.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: The marketer.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: The one person doing the marketing, you know, and in reality, you know, it should be something that's a shared load.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so maybe someone does not like being in front of camera.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we've dealt with that before.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right, you know, and uh, but that doesn't mean you do that every time, but just say, hey, this matters for the big scheme of things, you know, that we want people want to understand everybody, you know, we want to understand a little bit about everyone.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so again, you don't force that person to be in front of the camera if that's not where they want to be.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: But part of that generalist foundation is that that's something that maybe is expected or at some point is required to a small degree.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because if that is a low skill and low energy area, if you continue to require that, burnout is on the horizon.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: So if you cannot tell, I'm very passionate about this because I I think I've seen this mismanaged in so many different areas across so many different organizations that I work for.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I understand that that not everybody is a people manager.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a lot of psychology and sociology behind that, but getting people to slow down enough to identify these areas of improvement is the real challenge.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I and I I think you've seen it from the management standpoint, the employee standpoint, and then and then certainly, you know, uh from the ownership standpoint, uh, from my my perspective, it is.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a super important and it's probably overlooked, like you said, because it takes time to invest in learning about your employees, learning more than just the job that they do, so that you can maximize their time when they're at work.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: They go home fulfilled and they want to come back to work.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's one of the biggest compliments we've ever had here from employees is they enjoy coming to work.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: They look forward to it, they look forward to Monday morning as opposed to dreading it because they want to hear about every how everybody's weekend was, they want to get back to the the that work family that we have have built from a culture standpoint here, and and that's the win.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the and then I think our our patients see that, they feel that in the way they're spoken to, they're text, they're taken care of.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it just it permeates every aspect of your business, and it either will be your biggest driver or will be the nail in the coffin.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you think about it like this, let's say someone is a three or a four out of ten on a certain skill that's part of their job function.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is it worthwhile to focus on that individual to get them to maybe a five or a six?
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Or to find the person that's already a seven or eight out of ten and get them to a ten.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because that person that's at a ten will will be leaps and bounds ahead of the person that you spent weeks or months or years to get to be a five or a six, which should be marginal.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, five out of ten is like halfway there.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so focusing on these people on these individuals and helping them hone that superpower to be that force multiplier is where you get the biggest bang for your buck out of the individual.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, you could use this, you know, just like that energy matrix, you could go through and create a list of what are the tasks roles associated with this employee's or or this employee group's job.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, list those things out.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can go uh and and create a survey, and maybe that's something we can put to task that I can work on, is you know, like this is a task that we do.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: Do you enjoy this?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes or no?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, out of 10 out of 10, how much do you, or one out of one through 10, how much do you love or hate this?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um, and so you can go through each individual task and find out, you know, where do people want to exceed?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Where do people want to excel?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can use that that demographic information and then find ways of grouping people together.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: But they always say play play to your strengths.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: I completely agree to that.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, like it takes me a whole lot longer to become good at something that I'm not good at versus me being excited about something that I can absolutely blow out of the water.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just a different perspective on that.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: But um either way, people matter.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can't figure out what matters to people on your team, then you don't have a cohesive team.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just a group of individuals, you know, that you're treating exactly the same, ignoring the aspect of diversity and ignoring the aspect of differing skill sets.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that hurts a business, that hurts an organization, and probably hurts retention.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: So don't be lazy, get to know your people.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: No, well, and and I and again, it it's work, but it it's it's well worth it down the line when you put in, I think I think your your return on investment there is astronomical compared to the time that it takes to do that.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, because how long does it take to get a new employee and get them to be at that operational level?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the amount of time not just for training, you know, and hiring process and everything else, but just the months and even year or two years that it takes to get them to be a strong member of the team, right?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, do you really want to start that over every couple years with your high performers?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, or do you want to listen to what they have to say and hopefully they stick around?
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:51
  unknown: Yeah.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because I remember even like uh I forget what the uh the numbers were, but it was like how much it it costs for the military to bring in a new service member.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, I'm sure the numbers are a little bit different depending on the branch.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: But that's why they have obligatory service periods that you know, if somebody if the Navy trains someone to be a pilot, like you got to serve like six or eight years or something like that, because by the time that you come out with a pilot's license, I mean, they have invested so much, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars potentially in you to become, you know, a functional pilot.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now you can take that and go use that in the private sector down the road and everything else, but they want to get their money back out of you.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that employers should think that way towards employees in every business that you want to get your money out of this person, but not just for output, but in actually creating buy-in.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what all of this does.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess I need to wrap this up because I keep venting about this for a while.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: You're doing great.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: You're doing great.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're passionate.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: I get it.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm passionate, man.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very passionate.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, think about that.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe with something I can work on of getting that matrix together, getting some kind of a form or a document that at least creates a starting point for organizations to be able to survey your employee population and figure out what their strengths and weaknesses are, you know, and find a way to help create that buy-in.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: So uh Well, and I I even think you've you've got some potential to put something together for for an individual to do a personal audit on on themselves.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, again, again, whether that's that perfect week, whether it's a sort of a questionnaire or some some sort of input document to where they can kind of figure out what makes them tick or give that to a co-owner or a spouse and uh a friend that that could kind of take an outside the box look and say, look, man, this is I can tell this is what drives you versus this is what drains you, and you may not see it that way.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's the funniest thing is people think like, oh, I know me and I know what what matters to me.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: I will tell you that I would say at least eight or nine times out of ten, somebody else is a better uh litmus test for for who you are, what you love, and what matters to you than we are ourselves.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of times that is such a filtered response.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, if I tell my wife I love fishing, she goes, Well, you don't want to spend time with us.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Okay, okay.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so now I can't love fishing that much because you know, now I'm violating someone else.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: But in reality, she knows that I love that.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: And she knows she's usually pretty good at at you know making time so that I can go enjoy that.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes people are a better measure than we are ourselves.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so having that comparative information from the inside and the outside, you know, could give a better rounded approach or understanding of that perspective.
• 37:33
  unknown: Yeah.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe I'll get to working on that.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: Give myself a task.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's it for me.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Anything else that you had on that topic, Jonathan?
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I did want to throw out one last little plug.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we're close.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um beginning of September.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we've talked about it before.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: Fire health is rolling out, and you know, uh, everything we talk about on this show really comes back to sort of the same thing, right?
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you build your business, you hit your number, you buy back your time, you do all these things, but but if you lose your body, if you lose your physical health, your mental drive, uh, you know, you don't get to enjoy the fruits of your labor.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's that's really why we we came up with this this fire health is is to to provide this membership practice uh for people trying to build something, build that wealth, build that legacy, like the like the uh guests we've talked to here on the show.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they they get a doctor in their pocket, they get real access, they get you know direct direct primary care access to to myself, they get you know life coaching from from from you.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's not a waiting room, there's no two weeks out.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like we can help you in that moment, no matter where you are, you know.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and so we we really want to kind of kind of talk people um uh through how if they like what they hear on this show, like you you can have this every day in your life through through Fire Health.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh check us out at firehealth.co.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we've got a founding 50 um uh membership going on right now that if if you join in that first 50, it's a lifetime lock-in of the best price we've ever got.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: And and we just we want those folks that are willing to be early adopters um to this movement that we're looking to do to help people uh maintain their health while they're building their wealth.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um we we we want to we want them to benefit from that.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: All right, well, I think that's it for us today.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so Jonathan, thank you so much for your feedback and your input.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, we will talk to all of y'all on the next episode of The Long Burn.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Y'all have a fantastic week.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: Bye, guys.
• 39:35
  unknown: Bye.