Latest / Do Small Business Like a Big Boss Podcast / PR for Small Business: Why Hyperlocal Beats Forbes
Transcript
- Aisha Massengill: You need to be able to show that you have value and there are benefits to working with your brand. Welcome to Do Small Business Like a Big Boss, where we explore the real stories, hard-earned lessons, and game changing strategies of entrepreneurs who've moved beyond the side hustle and build businesses that scale with confidence. This show is proudly sponsored by Project Icon. I'm your host, Aisha Jorge Massingill, your Small Business Legal Guide. Let's dive in. What's up, bosses? Welcome to the latest episode of Do Small Business Like a Big Boss. I am your host, Aisha Jorge Massingill, your Small Business Legal Guide. And today I'm really pleased to welcome Nicole Blake Baxter to the show. Nicole is the founder and managing director of the Blake Agency, a full-service public relations firm based in Atlanta, Georgia. With clients nationwide. A veteran communicator with 20 plus years in the PR industry, Nicole built her career from the ground up. Publicity at Island Def Jam group to senior sales at Stan Communications and Kramer Castlet Public Relations before ultimately launching her own boutique agency. Welcome, Nicole. Hey, Aisha. Thanks for having me. Thanks for being on the show. I thought it would be helpful before we begin and get into deep. To set the stage for listeners, how would you differentiate your role in PR versus a marketing agency? So PR is really specialized. and it's, you know, I like to tell everyone, even though I'm biased clearly, that PR should be the foundation of any marketing campaign because it really informs how you communicate with your clients, your customers. even your you know internal audiences. So PR is, you know, a specialized area that focuses more on communications, how you communicate, where you communicate, as opposed to marketing that can entail, you know, marketing is considered the overall umbrella and PR falls under it, but I do believe that PR should be the foundation. I don't think you can have a successful marketing campaign if you do not have a solid PR foundation. Cause all I keep thinking is Olivia Pope running through my head or something like that. Like I I think of like I spent too much time in corporate America, so we dealt more with like crisis PR. Crisis communications. Hey, you know like the cleanup, the cleanup person, the person who's trying to make things, you know, that that is you know, and a lot of people think of you know public relations as such, right? crisis communications or media, right? Media relations, which is more aligned with publicity. But public relations can encompass so many different things, from social media marketing to digital marketing, speak and engagements, media relations, of course, and overall strategic planning, you know, just that foundation, that overall strategy of how you communicate. Awesome. So You know, you've gone through a number of kind of corporate jobs before going out on your own. Can you just walk us through like a couple of things that you did leading up to the past before the big pivot? Yeah. So I I've been in the PR industry for over 20 years, which I always pinch myself because I'm like, How did it how is it possible that it's been over 20 years? I still remember my first internship. I interned with Universal Music Group. and then landed my first PR assistant position at Island F Jam Music Group. So that kind of, you know, that was kind of my dream job, you know, went into being entertainment. I I loved hip hop. and I just it was a dream. Right. I still remember just, you know, my first day at Island Def Jam. and I have a very interesting story. my first day on the job, I was a publicity assistant and I was all over the place. Crazy. I was just thrown in. It was chaotic, and there was a lot going on. And Ludacris's mom was visiting the office that day. She had a meeting with my boss. And she walked over to me and she was like, it's gonna be okay. How nice. And that woman was just so sweet. And she sent me flowers. wow. And that was the sweetest thing. So, you know, I have a lot of, you know, it was certainly you know, chaotic being thrown into the music industry. And it was definitely something that, you know, having a passion for. PR and music, it it was a dream come true. And then again, you know, I realized sooner than later that I wanted a more structured approach at the start of my career. And I also wanted to really explore agency PR and working across different clients, you know, not wanting to get pigeonholed really, you know, too early. so I left. so I did a stint at Def Jam and went on to Stanton Communications. my professor at my old professor was you know my mentor at the time and she she got me my first job in agency PR. and that was where it all started to develop for me and you know I could see myself. really just building a career. I loved working with different clients. I got the opportunity to work with, you know, retailers, tech clients. Party City was one of, you know, one of my main accounts that I started working on as a PR coordinator and then went on to work with them as a senior account executive at another agency. It there's some some parallels, I think, between what we call in house counsel working for one company versus when you're outside counsel and you work for a law firm and you represent a whole host of clients. Is that a fair comparison? Well, absolutely. Absolutely. Also, I I always say I went to law school because I wanted to be a sports and entertainment lawyer and life took me in another direction. But when I finally kind of had a full circle moment, I went to Under Armour. And I remember like within my first few months of starting there, Aaron Judge of the Yankees had won the home run derby. And when I came into work the next day, he was on the landing page when I logged into work. And as a Yankee fan, I was just like, I've died and gone to heaven. Like this is my every this is my every day. I get to be in sport. but then you you have to like come out of your dream state. And it is still a business and you have to start to figure out like what works well for you and and what doesn't. And so you you started kind of in captive in house, you do agency. And then I understand and forgive me if I'm saying this wrong, Nubia Media and Marketing, you started that. Yes. Tell me about that. So, you know, after you know, working in agency, PR and managing multiple accounts. I will say that the transition to starting my own business, I'd love to say that I it was kind of planned out, but it wasn't. It was more so, it was more so, and I can't, you know, delve too much into what happened because the legality of it all, but I did leave. the the agency that I work for, you know, mutual agreement. I felt like, you know, growth for me was not possible, especially as a black or probably the only black senior account executive, or maybe one of two that that work for the agency. And you know, certainly working in public relations, especially, you know, big agency or mid sized agencies. you know, that was that was a barrier, you know, having to you know break down, you know, break the glass ceiling, so to speak, and try to climb the corporate ladder when there are so many, you know, challenges, whether it's personal or whether it's just, you know, organizational challenges. So I, you know, started my own media and marketing company. And that was something that I had planned for many years, right? So I had this business plan and it's a funny story. I created that in college, right? That was a part of that was a part of my marketing term project. And I created this great marketing plan. I had this idea. to have a media and marketing agency, a woman's focused publication. And my professor, Professor Keller, if he ever sees this, saw my graded my paper and I I I think I I got an A plus on that paper and he was like, This is a great marketing plan. This is fantastic. I want to see you do this someday. So you know, stepping away from Kramer I just knew that the next thing for me was to start my own business. And I just always had that entrepreneurial spirit, that drive. I wanted, you know, I I just never envisioned myself working for anyone. and I I I will say that that's probably something that was instilled in me very early on. My grandmother ran a hat shop in Kingston and she was a milliner. And my cousins and I would have to take inventory and help out in the shop during the summers. So for me, you know, this is how I grew up seeing my grand grandmother, you know, really, you know, earn a live in and raise her family from, you know, her her sweat and and tears. but that is something that I always wanted to do. So I started newbie media and marketing with four other women. girlfriends and we had the main focus of it was a blog. The blog sphere was starting to take off. Influencers didn't exist at the time. And I kind of got the idea you know, to go from a traditional publication to a blog because we didn't have the money to roll out a publication. That's the print magazines were expensive to run and get off the ground. So I I, you know, I went to my girlfriends and I said, hey, I've been doing a lot of work with bloggers as a you know a PR pro. And you know, they're like, what's that? You know, this is how this is how long ago this was, right? And I had I did a campaign for Burlington and it was They were just wowed. They were blown away by the campaign. they were so excited. so that's where the idea started to unfold for me. I said, Well, we're gonna start a blog. So we started Nubia as a blog, but there was also a marketing component where I still consulted with clients, small businesses. we worked with various brands, doing restaurant reviews. product reviews and it really took off. We were at I would like to say we were at the forefront of the whole influencer marketing. Right. A lot of the women that we, you know, were in the same circles with, same spaces with, are now influencers. As we, you know, as they are today. So Nubia got picked up by a vertical media company. We attended a couple fashion week events. We were getting a lot of brand deals, reviews. And then that somehow I wouldn't say fell apart, but we all kind of wanted different things. We had different goals. So everyone went their separate ways. I kept running the the blog as well as focusing on the marketing side. And then when it came down to how How was I going to plan my next five years? I went right back to what I love and know, and that was PR. So I rebranded Nubia Media and Marketing, you know, and and today we're the Blake agency. working with nonprofit clients, tech clients, and travel clients. so I want to talk about the the pivot and the rebrand. And I'm I'm gonna respect any kind of limitations that you may have to talk about the other thing, but you raised something that's really important for my listeners. when you're going into business with more than just yourself, did you feel confident that you all, number one, had you were on the same page at the beginning and was that documented? Did you have contracts and Different legal structures in place that dealt with how you were coming together and then how you would exit? We we had a plan of coming together. We did not have an exit exit plan. And that is something that I think is key and should be key when starting any business, when it comes to partnerships. Because we were friends, we're girlfriends, we all worked in corporate America together. it was very there was no, I I I don't think there was any legal battles involved. Well I would say I am more of a dreamer when it comes when it came to that side of you know the business. And at the very start it was my baby, right? It's you know, starting this business I thought we were all gonna just come together, make it successful, and you know, kumbaya and you know, all the good things. obviously, you know, that didn't work out, didn't pan out. we did have the business structured in a way where, you know, if everyone went their separate ways, there would be a soul, you know, soul own ownership. so there was there was you know, not a solid exit plan. But it was solid airtight enough for for me to pursue other things. Okay. So we're gonna go on with the the rebrand. And you just said that you zeroed in on kind of nonprofits to some tech, it's a B2B. how did you get focused on those particular niches? Because I think that's a struggle for a lot of folks going in. They want to try to service everyone. So was there Particular process that you follow to go towards those particular niches? That wasn't the case initially. And I I talk about this a lot. you know, when I, you know, meet with clients or new business prospects. You know, initially it is, you know, spray and pray, right? You know, I need business. I need clients. I'm starting out. I, you know, as a consultant, you know, many years ago, I I took on anyone. I took on pro bono work. I I was just happy to get a client. And, you know, after a few after a while you realize, well, I do have to have a focus and it's very important. I think in the back of my mind, you know, I recognized earlier on because I worked in agency PR, I understood structure, I understood targeting, but I really gravitated towards the clients that I was more passionate about and also clients that I had experience working with. So when I started agency PR, I worked with nonprofits like Partnership for Drug Free America, Corporate Angel Network, also tech clients like Sprint. so it was a natural route to to go with with the client focus but you know in the beginning you just you just want to stay afloat you just want to start a business and you need to make money yes so that is but but you know i always tell this small business owners you are gonna want to be more successful having a focus and really finding the clients that Not only are you looking for your services, but the clients that you can add value to, the clients that you know you can really make a difference for. So I think it's, you know, super important to understand you know, your target audience and the value that you can offer really earlier on, because you know, just servicing any and everybody. is not gonna put you where you need to be as a small business. So once you figured out your niche, how did you go about getting those clients? So I would say, you know, getting those clients and really trying to target clients in that niche depends on a lot of different things. First you have to show and proof, right? You need to be able to show that you have value and there are benefits to working with your brand. PR is a little different because it is B2B. so finding clients is a it's you know it's a different animal when it comes to B2B. You know, there's a lot more sales outreach. There is a lot more you know lead generation involved. and with any business, you know, no, if you build it they won't come. They're not just all that you're doing. They're not just gonna pop up. So, you know, initially word of mouth was really just you know by word of mouth referrals, really looking at different platforms, making sure that I was doing all the things for my business that I would do for clients, right? And also just making sure that you know, storytelling is such an important piece of you know. attracting clients, making sure that you can tell your story in a meaningful way. You're not just doing all the things, but how do you communicate that when you actually sit on a sales call? And I'll tell you, I was one of the things that scared me the most with starting this business was sales. Because I I I never considered myself a salesperson, right? And I'll I don't like that term, sales. When I worked in corporate America, we would have, you know, our managing director would handle a lot of the sales stuff and she would try to pull me in and get me involved. And I'm like, I don't want to do this stuff. I I just I don't want to do RFPs. I don't want to well, well, thank, thank God she led me down that path, right? because when I started my own agency, those were the things that I needed to do. I needed to learn how to put together, I needed to know how to put together a RFP. I needed to understand how to conduct a sales call. But, you know, very earlier on, you have, you know, this presentation and you're, you know, you're talking, you're trying to pitch yourself. But the moment I recognize that I don't have to sell anything. It's not a hard sell. I just need to tell my story. I just need to communicate. in a meaningful way, why choose me? Why, what's the why? What's the why? And what's that unique thing about the Blake agency that's gonna bring value to their business? So I stopped, you know, it it it went from being a sales pitch to just conversations with people. You know, how do we align? I, you know, more rather than how can I get your business, how can we add value? you know, for each other. How, you know, what's the mutual benefit? Yeah. I I love a lot what you what you said there. But I do want to circle back and say, I don't like the idea of sales either. What do you think that was for you back if you think put yourself back in those shoes long ago when you were just starting out? What exactly was it about sales? Because I hear that a lot, right? Like I know I don't want to be salesy. I didn't want to, you know, be a salesperson. Like, what do you think? that was tapping in for you about sales and not wanting to do it. Yeah, I just always felt like it, you know, a lot of salespeople came across as gimmicky or or they were trying to or it wasn't authentic, right? They're telling you all these different reasons why you should spend money with them. But understanding that sales does not have to be that way. That you don't have to sit there and try to tell someone, you know, choose me, choose me. This is, you know, this is how much I charge. Instead of doing all of that, you know, my discovery calls with clients start with tell me about yourself, tell me about your business, tell me your why. Because what I look for clients, you know, what I what I look for in clients at this point is are you really passionate about what you are doing? Do you believe that you can truly make a difference? What is your why? What's your differentiator? Because at the end of the day, when it comes to public relations and working with clients, the most successful campaigns are gonna come from brands and businesses, business owners that really believe in their product or service. And if they don't have I cannot pitch a client who is trying to and I don't want to use, you know, I don't want to use that word, but who who's trying to get over on someone who's not authentic. They're selling something that they don't believe in. Right. I can't pitch them to media. And if I do land them, you know, one placement, how many placements can I truly get for that client? So there has to be something in that potential client that says to me, you know, this is someone I can work with. So I'm looking for, you know, I'm vetting clients as well. So it gets that point where it's not just I, you know, I want a client. I want, you know, I want to sign a new client, but I want a client that aligns with our values. So when you talk about pitching someone to a brand or company, what does that involve? I mean, I'm sure there's an exchange of money, but like what does that actually mean when you're pitching someone? Pitching a client to to media? Yeah. Well, for our agency, we are not a tactical media shop. And You know, and that that term comes for this an old term, probably dated. But you know, back in the day we had media shops where they would just pitch, you know, they they sign clients and they pitch. And those are typically what we well who what we recognize as publicists, right? PR professionals, you know, agents that people like to differentiate. We are really building a strategy around our campaigns. So if we are working with a client that's focused on media relations and, you know, at some point we're gonna pitch that client, but we definitely need to start with strategy, right? Because working with small businesses. A lot of times we get, you know, of course there are budget constraints, right? so they come in and they're hey, I want to be in Forbes. And can we do that in a month? And my my response is always like no. Right. No, we cannot. I again I I leave money on the table. I turn down clients all the time. Just last week, you know, I had someone that wanted To run a one-month campaign. I said, that's four weeks. What am I gonna do for you in four weeks? And then tell you we didn't get any results. So we start with strategy. We make sure that we understand the client's business, that we look at their competitors. What are their competitors doing in similar spaces? What type of stories can we tell about their brand, about the founder? about the product or about the service. How can we really build a strategic approach to get them the type of placements they need? And it's not just about Forbes because clients think they know where they need to be. But our role as a PR agency is really to to show them where they need to be. This is your audience. Because you might be a small business owner and I mean, Forbes is just not the place for you. If you're if you're a tech startup and you know, yeah, Forbes is great and you be all like shiny things, but if you are, for example, you know, in the ed tech space, well, maybe you need to be in education week. Maybe, maybe you need to be where your core audience is gonna see you. And that's gonna be more valuable than a Forbes write-up. So t I'd I I'm glad you mentioned that because I did see, and I don't know, it was written by one of your team members talking about whether you should be hyperlocal focused in pitching yourself or getting yourself out there. So I think you raised a really important point. Tell me about the thought process with hyperlocal versus a Forbes, which is really a national publication. Yes, absolutely. And that's that's the key. I'm you I'm impressed that you read the the blog votes. That was written by a team member, yes. But it's it's very much, you know, the the mindset and and just the you know the core of what we do because yes, there are a lot of small businesses that should be hyperlocal. especially if you're in a event space business, right? If you have a children's you know, attraction or theme park and your goal is to get kids to your theme park on Saturdays and Sundays, what do you care about, Forbes? Right. Yes, it's it's great branding, right? And it's it it's it's noise, you know, but how are you going to get people to your event? And who's gonna see it? So hyperlocal marketing is perfect for businesses that need foot traffic. You know, you have a subway franchise. You need people to come in and buy sandwiches. Right. So instead of to, you know, spending a whole month trying to pitch you to you know to Forbes, you know, who will probably, you know, they probably never pick you up. You know, that reported Forbes and I just, you know, you know. So we will focus on local publications. We'll focus on, you know, the community newspapers. We'll focus on podcast interviews. We'll focus on, you know, maybe we'll do a social media marketing campaign that really focus in focuses on the messaging, right? Because we don't we're not a social media marketing agency, but we do focus on messaging. Right. Making sure that you know clients are communicating effectively and in a meaningful way across those channels. So there are different approaches, different channels. you know, with hyperlocal marketing, it is key for a lot of small businesses, but they get so focused on the bigger picture, which is great if you are at that level. If you are not concerned about foot traffic anymore and you own, you know, five or ten subways, then by all means you should be in Forbes, right? Because then you're showing, you know, how you have built your brand, how you have expanded. That's a different story. But if you're just starting out and all you need is, you know, people to come to your subway during lunchtime and spend some money with you. Hyperlocal marketing is is key. Hmm. No, that that's super good. I I often tell a story about when I transition out of corporate. I I had a very good reputation nationally amongst people in my space because I work for big companies. Well, now I'm running a law firm in my local area. Don't nobody care about that. And so I always think of this old politician named Tip O'Neill, and he used to say all politics is local. And that was like a real light bulb for me about having to flip the script and really focus locally. Are there any other gems like a a big business PR strategy that a solopreneur or early stage founder could steal right now? especially without a big budget that like you give to to your clients. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, when it comes to solopreneurs and especially in the service-based businesses, that's a that's a whole different animal, right? Yeah. You're not selling and tangible products. So it's a harder sell, right? I always in research, I'm always looking at what does your digital footprint look like? Because I see way too many solopreneurs that, you know, who start, you know, they'll start a business. And then I go to the website and there's no information about that founder. And they're like, well, I don't want it to be about me. you know, I'm I'm selling my service. And I'm like, but you are your service. You are the brand. So personal branding is super important for solopreneurs, especially in service-based businesses, because people want to know who's behind the brand. Who who am I giving my money to? They want to know about you. They want to know your background. They want to know, you know, your why, your expertise. So having a digital footprint, starting with your website, making sure that you have a proper foundation for your personal brand and just storytelling overall, you want to have a great bio. Wanna have a great buy? You want make sure that all of your social channels are updated and consistent. Cause that's another thing that I see a lot where the you know inconsistent messaging. And that's one of the the things we look at when we start working with clients. We conduct 360 audit to make sure that there's consistent messaging. Because you don't want your website communicated one thing, your social media communicated another. So we make sure those are all aligned. And, you know, you start with that. And then the next step is to get some local coverage for yourself in your market. If you're not looking at, you know, localizing and you want to overall you know, thinking about big, you know. business ideas, right? You want to pitch to publications, entrepreneur-focused publications, publications that are trade focused. If you are an attorney, you want to look at trade publications in that space, legal trades, and offer byline articles. That's something that's easy to do. And that's something that we do on behalf of clients. And we encourage clients that work with us on a short-term basis to continue the, you know, these strategies. So legal publications will have byline opportunities. They post them on their websites a lot. Editorial calendars will be there. And you offer, you know, hey, I can write a byline for you talking about legal, you know, I don't know. working in the in in in legal industry in the phase of AI or how to make sure you structure your small business as a startup. Yeah. So how to effectively structure as a startup. So we can, you know, you can you can do those things as a startup, as a solopreneur, byline articles, pitch into local media, pitch into trade publications, and that's an easy to do. But you cannot achieve that successfully unless you have that strong foundation. Because editors, reporters, they're looking to make sure that not only they're not just looking for consistency and looking to research information about you. They want to make sure they're not going to write about a startup or a a business that won't be around in another six months. Because we do see a lot of those. We see a lot of people say, hey, I have this great idea. Everyone wants to be a business owner, but it's it's not as glamorous as it, you know, as a lot of people think it is. So people do get discouraged and they do fold very quickly. Yeah. it's it's for me, it's the happiest exhaustion I've ever experienced, but it can be exhausting nonetheless. So with that, I want to pivot from asking how you help folks to how you're actually running your business day to day because I would imagine you're managing your client relationships and content creation and strategy. So what is an actual week in your business look like with you at the helm? Wow, it is It's chaotic in a good way. Yeah. In a good way. I I've I I I think I love the madness and the magic of it all, right? typical week for me, I'm doing everything from sales calls, discovery calls, with potential clients to meeting with my team, you know, making sure that internally we are ahead of. of what's happening, talking to clients constantly, you know, just stay in in communication with clients. having client relationships is just super important. So I do a lot of that, you know, whether it's texting or emailing clients to check in, making sure that my team is getting everything they need from the client to get their job done. And I'm still in the day-to-day a lot more than I I I need to be over the next two years, but I'm very much involved with you know, pitching, developing strategies. So I'm doing a little bit of everything. you know, proving our social media calendar. I I now I'm pretty hands off with our social media because I find that I'm a bottleneck when it comes to that. Yes. You know, because I'm like, we shouldn't say it that way. I don't want to So I Stepped away completely from that and say, Hey, I'm not, I'm not posting anything on social media. I don't want to write a caption, just do do what I want. Yes. I think there comes a moment in every small business owner's life where you go like this and you take your hand off and you accept that it may not be perfect, but it's done. It's done. It's better than perfect. And and to your point about not being the bottleneck, get out of the way so that all the other wonderful. things can happen without you approving every detail and slowing everybody else down. Exactly. So I'm talking about myself in that moment because I'm thinking about the stuff that I need to go and approve that's been sitting there for a while. if if if there's if there's been someone who's listening right now, they've never spent a dollar on PR, like where should they start as their first move if they're thinking to engage a company like yours? If they've never spent a dollar on PR, they need to ASAP. Because you know, I and it goes back to what I said initially, PR should really be the foundation of your marketing campaign, your overall marketing campaign. Because if you don't get the messaging right, everything else could could fall apart. Or it just won't be as consistent. Because you know, PR really informs that overall market and strategy. You know, with Startups, small budgets, trying to figure out where to go. It's very important to spend that money wisely. Yep. Because too often I, you know, I hear from prospective clients that, I hired a PR agency and you know, I spent thousands of dollars and I got no results. Now that could be true for media pitching. Because we cannot guarantee earned media, right? Earned media is not something that we can't guarantee that the journalist at Forbes is gonna write a story about you. But I would say, you know, startups with small budgets should be looking at a solid mix of earned, paid, and owned media. And that's very, you know, it's not your traditional PR model. But it is something that we have adopted over time. And it's when they talk about earned media, talking about traditional media outreach, pitching to, you know, Inc., Fast Company, local newspapers, so on. That's the earn component. Then there's paid media where you are securing sponsored articles, whether it's with a small blog. or, you know, digital high traffic publication. And then there's owned media, which is your website content, your social media content, and even press releases can be considered owned media. So one of the things that every small business, every startup should be doing is making sure that they have consistent information out there about their brand. And press releases are a great way to do that. Hmm. And go ahead. It's just a press release. I'm putting it out there and I have to pay to put it on the wire. Well, think about it. This is the digital age, right? If someone wants to find information about you, they are going to Google or any other Right. And now we have AI-generated search. Where does that information come from? Well, all of that is being gathered, being collected from. Press releases, articles. So not only information that is being put out there by third parties, but also your own content and some of your paid content as well. Interesting. All right, Nicole. giving us some really good things to think about. I'm thinking about rethinking some of my strategies. But I like to ask all my guests to appear on this show the following. When you hear the phrase do small business like a big boss, what does that mean to you? Doing small business like a big boss is really for me, it's it means being intentional. It means thinking big because there is no room to think small. Because if you think small, you're always gonna be small. and resit being resilient. Being resilient knowing that listen, whatever you lost yesterday, you can get that back tenfold tomorrow. Love it. Love it. where can the people find you and the Blake Agency? Well, we are on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, the Blake Agency LLC. that is our handle. And I'm also on Instagram, Nicole Blake T R. All right. Well, I can visit our website at the blake PRAgency.com. All right. Well, I appreciate your time today. And for my fellow bosses, that's all we have for you today. If you've liked anything that you've heard, we ask that you follow, you subscribe, you just do all the things on whatever platform that you're listening to on this for this. And and just remember you can build that dream messy, build it scared, but don't build it small. We will see you next time. Thanks for having me, Aisha. Mm-hmm.