Latest / Probation Behavior / 4 | Audrey Griffin: She Should Have Made It Home

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4 | Audrey Griffin: She Should Have Made It Home · Probation Behavior

0:23
You're listening to probation behavior, guys.
0:29
It's allergy season. It is.
0:34
It's also Abby and I Went to Hannah burner season comedy.
0:39
Just just for a night. Not a, not a whole.
0:42
Season. Sorry, it's definitely not a
0:43
whole season. I just wanted to keep the
0:44
pattern going. But it was great.
0:47
Did you love it? I did love it.
0:48
I was actually surprised at how much I laughed because I don't
0:52
watch Summer House. I've seen clips of her but I
0:56
don't really know anything about her and she actually left my
1:01
socks. Off she rocked my socks off.
1:04
I think I will say for her, she's been off the show for
1:08
years and she was only on it for I think three years maybe.
1:13
So she's been doing the comedy like as her main thing.
1:16
Other than that podcast with Paige with Paige for since then.
1:21
So it's been like since 2020-2021?
1:24
She was good, yeah. So that makes sense because she,
1:26
like she had the presence of somebody who has been doing it
1:29
for quite a. While yes, no, she she's doing
1:33
well and I think she's filming or she maybe she already did on
1:38
the tour because that was actually the last tour stop.
1:40
So, yeah, so she is going to be releasing a special on Netflix,
1:47
I think, of that tour. Oh, OK.
1:48
So we'll probably see similar. I mean, everything's different
1:51
though, because she did a lot of crowd work that was extremely
1:53
specific. She does do a lot of crowd work.
1:55
I think when we when it first started, my boyfriend was a
2:00
little bit like concerned that it was just going to be crowd
2:04
work. And he was like, Oh no, I'm not
2:05
going to like this, but. No, you need the stories.
2:07
Yeah, I think she, I think she was great at it.
2:10
She was great. I loved it.
2:12
Well, so the the men that she picked out at was so it was so
2:17
funny. I mean, she obviously chose
2:19
first of all, most of them were women.
2:21
I think I commented that when we walked in, it was like a Taylor
2:24
Swift concert crowd, like Pierre's tour crowd, because it
2:27
was like all women. Everybody also looked like so
2:29
cute and dressed so. Cute.
2:31
I was like, oh and. Then I had to.
2:33
Call me Where's Waldo? I had a really striped.
2:35
Shirt on. It was really, really striped.
2:39
It was really striped. I got it from newly, which I
2:42
didn't do. I did it one time years ago
2:47
because my friend had done it and I was like, this sounds like
2:49
the coolest thing ever. I have no money, let's put $100
2:52
a month to it. And I did it one month and I
2:55
bought the most expensive item in the bunch.
2:58
And I realized that I am not capable of doing newly, but I
3:02
did newly. I started it again because, you
3:06
know, people make mistakes over and over again and I'm actually
3:10
not a fan of anything that I got.
3:12
Oh, not sure. Included.
3:14
Safe. I think I'm going to need you to
3:15
go through and Abby has a much more like like edgy style.
3:20
Like, thank you. Like she'll try, you'll try
3:22
things that I'm like, I see the trends and I'm like, oh, that's
3:24
so cool. I wish I could do that.
3:25
And then like Abby will wear that.
3:27
I need you to pick things out and then force me to wear them.
3:30
OK, I, I would love, I'd love to do that.
3:33
This is sponsored by Newly. Everybody.
3:36
Oh yeah, sorry. I'll beep it out so that they
3:38
don't get free money. Anyways.
3:44
Anyways, OK, should we dive in? I think we should and I'm going
3:52
to dive first here today. I will be speaking on the murder
3:58
of Audrey Griffin and just wanted to start with a quote
4:03
here. Keep you thinking, setting the
4:07
tone, but I just knew from day one that she just didn't look at
4:11
peace. Oh.
4:14
Chills. I knew from day one, OK.
4:19
OK. Oh, no.
4:21
Is this like domestic abuse? No, sorry.
4:23
You're going to tell me, but. Ali, I can't with you.
4:26
I did. Go.
4:26
So OK, first want to say this does take place in Australia,
4:33
OK, Down Under OK. So I wasn't, as I was going
4:38
through this case, I was seeing some terms that I think are a
4:41
little bit different that they use there.
4:43
So I did a little bit some light research into that.
4:46
So if I say anything wrong, I apologize.
4:49
But to start off, Audrey Griffin was a 19 year old university
4:55
student from NSW, known for her close knit group of friends, and
5:00
she was also a rugby and water polo player and she was the
5:06
former vice captain of Central Coast Sports College, which I
5:11
think is where she was attending at the time.
5:14
So again, she's 19, she's into sports, very active, social, all
5:21
that. So in 2025, March 23rd, so about
5:26
a year ago at this point, yeah. Audrey had gone out with some
5:31
friends and stayed the night with them at the Gosford Hotel,
5:35
where she was until around 2:00 AM.
5:38
The next morning. Her mom, Kathleen, woke up to
5:42
check her location. And that's something she always
5:44
did, just making sure her daughter was OK.
5:47
Very 202525. Exactly.
5:49
And it's kind of funny because we were just talking about
5:52
location checking and just like how.
5:56
Yeah, quick sidebar, just to give our fans a little, our
6:02
listeners a little context. I was dying laughing at myself
6:08
driving to this comedy show because I was texting Abby like,
6:13
OK, leaving in 15, leaving my house, in my car on my way, 10
6:18
minutes out in the parking lot, parked, walking in, sitting,
6:23
standing up front. I also have her location and she
6:25
has my location. There is no need for all of
6:28
that. And yet the play by play, I am a
6:30
play by play kind of girl like. And it's crazy for me to think
6:34
that there was a time which like going to the airport, that was
6:38
my first example, was what you just told them a time that the
6:43
airplane was supposed to come. No clue if it got delayed, if
6:46
it's on time, if they have a bag and baggage claims taking a
6:49
while, they just got to wait. How anyways?
6:53
OK. It's almost like life was just
6:55
the days were longer then because I'm like, how did they
6:57
have the time? No, seriously, but OK anyways,
7:01
continue. Yeah.
7:01
So that's, you know, kind of that's common nowadays is
7:04
location checking. And I, I know my parents have my
7:08
location, but they do not even look at it.
7:09
I don't think they even know they have it.
7:11
I've told them several times but they're just not used to it so.
7:15
But I feel like maybe if I was in college at the time my mom
7:18
would have been checking it more.
7:20
So anyways, her mom Kathleen wakes up to check the location
7:24
and she's immediately worried because she sees that she did
7:29
not make it home and the location showed her at Irina
7:35
Creek, which immediately alarmed her.
7:39
This was not some place that she would have just been, you know?
7:44
Oh my God, no. My stomach would have jogged.
7:46
Sorry. You said how old she was. 19
7:49
yeah, continue. And her friend that she was with
7:53
the night before had also at this point reported her missing
7:57
to the. Police already and your mom
7:59
didn't know? Because from what I understand,
8:02
she was with her friends and I think at that hotel and then was
8:08
going back to her place where she lived with her friend.
8:11
And then she didn't show back up.
8:13
So her parents, Kathleen and Trevor, immediately rushed to
8:19
get over to Arena Creek. And even before then, a family
8:24
friend called Kathleen and told her that her husband decided to
8:29
go down there on foot and look for himself.
8:32
Because I think they might have lived a little closer.
8:34
And it was like all hands on deck.
8:36
And very quickly he found her bag, which was a very worrying
8:42
development for the family, obviously.
8:45
And they found that out as they're on the way.
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And once they arrived, the police were already on the
8:51
scene. Her father, Trevor, pretty
8:55
immediately spotted her body in the water.
8:58
And he said, like, I immediately knew it was her.
9:02
And unfortunately, like, I have to think part of them knew that
9:07
they were going to see something like that once the bag was
9:11
found. And the first assumption by the
9:15
police was that it was an accidental drowning.
9:19
They think that she might have just fallen, but there must have
9:24
been like, cuts all over her arm.
9:26
But again, if she would have fallen, I guess that they
9:29
thought that still could be consistent with that.
9:32
But her mom was not buying this and not accepting it because of
9:36
her daughter's swimming capabilities.
9:38
As I mentioned, she was like, yeah, really athletic.
9:42
Her mom said she was always in the ocean swimming.
9:44
Like, this girl was very fit and specifically good at swimming.
9:50
Yeah. But she was presumably drinking.
9:53
Yeah, they actually didn't mention that, but it was a night
9:56
out with friends. That's why I'm just assuming
9:58
like a 19 year old out with friends.
10:00
Not necessarily, but again, I feel like that always my first
10:03
thought when it like a young kid drowns and they think it's like
10:07
accidental is was there alcohol involved?
10:09
Yes. I think what's interesting is
10:12
that really doesn't get brought up later when you see things
10:16
will start to change. But I'll go back to that.
10:19
So anyways, Kathleen noticed that her daughter's nails were
10:24
full of mud. And she said that she just knew
10:28
by looking at her that she had been through something
10:32
stressful. And that's when she makes makes
10:37
the comment of like she did not look at peace and her husband
10:41
like agrees with her. And it felt the same thing.
10:45
So three days after her death, one of her friends had actually
10:50
gone back to the Creek, had found her phone because that had
10:54
not been found yet. And part of the reason it wasn't
10:56
found is because the tides changing, it was most likely
11:01
like in mud and the water level had been up when they were
11:05
looking at the scene. And again, at this time, the
11:08
police are going with the theory of it was an accident,
11:12
accidental drowning. So they're not really
11:15
investigating further, right, So.
11:19
Question did is the accidental drowning coming from also like
11:24
an autopsy or was it truly just like the police investigating
11:27
the scene as it was? So I think it was just the
11:31
police investigating the scene as it was.
11:35
I watched the 60 minute episode on this actually 60 minute
11:38
Australia, and they didn't talk about the autopsy at all.
11:43
I think it hadn't been performed yet because of that time frame,
11:50
and from what I understand that can take more than like a couple
11:53
days sometimes. So obviously like during those
11:57
couple of days, if they think it's accidental, then that's how
12:00
they're going to treat it. And that's exactly what we've
12:03
like seen so many times, right? So they find the phone and her
12:09
parents were getting extremely frustrated with the police and
12:13
the lack of media coverage because at this point, the
12:16
parents are fully like, somebody killed our daughter and there's
12:20
nothing being said about it. This killer is still on the
12:23
loose. And it wasn't until four days
12:27
later when it finally was announced to the public.
12:30
And it's interesting because her mom, Kathleen, in the meantime,
12:34
started doing her own investigation to try and see if
12:37
anybody had heard anything, seen anything.
12:40
She was going around to homes and businesses in the area.
12:44
And she said that she talked to neighbors and they said they
12:49
hadn't heard anything. They didn't know that that
12:52
happened like, which is pretty crazy, right?
12:56
So. Wait, is she?
12:58
A person of color? No.
13:00
No, OK. No, she's not.
13:02
Well, So what I'm going to talk about now is a slight transition
13:12
to a different person who is a key player in this story.
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OK, so I'm going to speak on Michelle Torin.
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Michelle was married to a man named Adrian Torin.
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Michelle at the time of this murder, was separated from
13:33
Adrian, and it had been a very tumultuous separation.
13:38
They were married in 20/22. And again, this happened in
13:42
2025. And it sounds like for the first
13:45
year of their marriage, like, everything was great, super
13:49
charming. He was described as funny, she
13:52
said loving like. She felt very safe with him and
13:56
she said like as if a finger just snapped.
14:00
Like his personality completely changed overnight and it took a
14:06
very violent turn and it his personality was super like
14:12
temperamental. That's how she described it.
14:14
And it would let that like switch would flip And she was
14:18
like, I, I had no idea when it would come and like, it was just
14:22
something I never expected to be dealing with with him because
14:25
the person that she met and married was not this person.
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OK, pause here. Will you hear that story over
14:35
and over and over again? And it's absolutely terrifying
14:38
as, you know, like young women. And then, you know, we have
14:41
friends dating and we were dating and all of that.
14:45
Like, the idea of thinking, you know, a person, like, getting
14:49
married to them or being with them for, like, many years and
14:52
then a switch goes off. Yeah.
14:54
Like, how is that even? How do you hide it so well?
14:58
It's it's crazy. I think as I was when I was
15:01
younger. I don't I probably because I was
15:04
watching and listening to a lot of true crime.
15:07
My biggest fear was like marrying somebody that would
15:10
turn out to be like a psychopath and just abusive.
15:15
And like that was as a child, like I thought about that like
15:19
in the future. So obviously in the beginning
15:23
you did bring up domestic violence.
15:25
So that does come into play here.
15:29
After a while of this very violent, unconsolable, angry
15:37
personality within the relationship, they ended up
15:42
splitting. And that was due to a specific
15:46
incident where things got physical with his rage.
15:49
And he was like, I think he threw something, he threw
15:53
something at her and was like slamming the walls and she was
15:57
trying to like, bring him down and like nothing was working.
16:02
And so at this point, Michelle went to the police and it was,
16:08
it's called an AVO, an apprehended violence order, I
16:12
think similar to what we would say her restraining order.
16:16
So this was put into place to protect her.
16:21
And according to, I forget what the source is, I'll, I'll put in
16:26
the, the details below. Yes, in Australia, the AVO is a
16:32
court order that protects you from someone you fear may cause
16:36
you harm. So OK, restraining order
16:38
exactly. And they say you may be eligible
16:43
for this if you've experienced been threatened with physical or
16:46
sexual violence. OK, so just a few weeks later,
16:50
after the AVO is put into place for Michelle, Torrance breached
16:57
it by leaving his wife 24 threatening voicemails.
17:02
He called her 35 * 24 voicemails and was saying things like, I'm
17:08
going to end your fucking reign. Your time is over Michelle, I
17:13
told you like I'm going to end you very threatening statements
17:19
and 24 voicemails. Like who knows how much you was
17:21
even saying? And every single one of them, Oh
17:23
my God. So at this point, she's
17:25
terrified and I know she has dogs that live with her.
17:29
And she said she was just like always keeping the dogs inside
17:32
and hoping like obviously her security guards and she just was
17:37
constantly fearing that he was going to be in her house when
17:39
she got home from work. And at this point also, police
17:44
didn't know where he was. They could not locate him, which
17:49
was God, another layer of fear. How do you get I could never.
17:54
Any sleep? I could never.
17:56
Giving like Steven from Tell Me Lies.
17:59
Although, yeah. Yeah, but.
18:02
But the whole like the threatening voicemails and
18:04
everything. And I mean the fear of not
18:08
knowing where they are and potentially them being in your
18:10
house. I got home the other day, my
18:13
door was cracked open. I had no a heart attack.
18:16
And the way that I handled it is comical.
18:19
I come inside, it's all dark in there.
18:23
Nemo's kissing me and saying, hey, how are you?
18:25
Nice. Of course, come home.
18:27
Of course. Also it's like 1:30 in the
18:30
morning. Crazy.
18:31
I know. Oh my gosh.
18:32
I know I was literally watching Temptation Island with Sabrina
18:36
and I put my phone flashlight on and I just like creep around the
18:40
house like flashlighting into every room seeing if anyone's
18:42
there. Then I like run into my room,
18:45
scoop Nemo and then lock the door behind me.
18:48
And that's I don't know what I thought was going to happen if I
18:52
like actually encountered anybody.
18:54
I've done the same thing like where I've like kind of crept
18:58
around and then get into a room and like a lock myself and.
19:01
Yes, yeah, yeah. And like, OK, then the next
19:05
question is, OK, so you just locked yourself in a room.
19:08
You can't escape your own house now.
19:11
But I figured it would give me enough time to call.
19:13
I, I have like a whole plan in my head.
19:15
You know how like your phone has the SOS you can like if you go
19:18
to the lock screen, I'd like literally practice because I'm
19:21
I'm crazy, but like in a, in a pinch because I feel like in
19:26
those situations, you don't know what to do.
19:29
Like, obviously she had, you know, security guard, somebody
19:32
out there. It was her dogs.
19:35
I thought you said she had somebody.
19:36
No, like her dogs were her security.
19:39
I totally missed that. Never mind, sorry.
19:43
I thought she had somebody, you know, stationed outside.
19:46
That would have been nice. Yeah, it would have.
19:49
Oh my God. OK, sorry I'm scared.
19:52
Please continue. OK, so like I said, the police
19:57
didn't know where he was for a long time, and it took five
20:01
months for them to track him down.
20:04
I'm not sure where they ended up finding him, but they at least
20:07
had an idea of where he was so. Michelle talks about like
20:14
clearly she had no idea that she was marrying a man who had such
20:17
a violent and criminal past. He had on his record like drunk
20:22
driving, drug possession, assault causing bodily harm on
20:26
his previous partner before Michelle.
20:29
And she had also had an AVO out on him and he after he had
20:36
stomped on her chest and broke her arm while threatening to
20:40
kill her with a knife. So AVO in place for his previous
20:44
partner. And he ended up also breaching
20:48
that AVO twice. So this man was a menace.
20:53
And he was in 2020, jailed for theft, fraud, assault,
20:59
intimidation, and again, that breaching of the AVO.
21:03
And because he broke community corrections orders, he was
21:07
convicted of or, sorry, sentenced to a community
21:11
corrections order instead of jail.
21:15
That was the judge's decision. And he was after jail, I think,
21:19
sent to not jail, sorry, community corrections order,
21:23
sent to a drug and alcohol rehab program and was then released.
21:28
Then he got married to Michelle. So it's like this is where
21:32
things start getting frustrating for Audrey Griffin's parents.
21:38
Clearly, I'm going somewhere with Adrian here.
21:41
He had such a record and he was not put in jail.
21:45
And it's like, you know, the whole justice system and all of
21:49
that. It's not just here in America
21:51
like it's happening, you know, other places too.
21:55
One might say he was released on probation.
21:59
Behavior. Sorry, I had to sneak.
22:02
No, it's fine. It's fine.
22:03
Extremely. Serious, but I I had to sneak in
22:05
it. It's.
22:05
Thank you. Yes, for the call out.
22:07
Well, yeah. It's just absolutely insane to
22:11
me how many. Again, I don't know what he's
22:13
about to do. I already know he's done some
22:14
crazy shit and he's out on the streets when he literally
22:18
stomped on a girl's chest. I think I like my whole body
22:21
convulsed when you said that. Horrible, I know.
22:25
So once he was out of his drug and rehab program, he, I think
22:35
it was approximately 3 months after that, that Audrey Griffin
22:42
was killed. So three months after being
22:45
released from this program, he kills Audrey.
22:50
And like I said, her parents have been very outspoken and
22:52
critical against the justice system.
22:55
They're very upset about taking it taking so long for the
22:58
homicide team to get involved because at that point, I think
23:01
it was just the the detectives for the like local police that
23:06
were investigating it. They hadn't brought in the
23:08
homicide team. And especially after the killer
23:14
was seen at the crime scene five days after the body was found.
23:18
So I bet you're wondering like, why did he kill her?
23:21
What's the connection here? Yes, I am.
23:24
Yes, me too. So as I mentioned, he was seen
23:29
five days later at the Creek and it happened around 5:00 AM.
23:35
Kathleen's friend is driving to work and she's headed towards
23:39
Sydney and she sees a man wearing white shorts, a red tank
23:45
top, white hat and then using like, a white stick, like poking
23:50
around. And this is just five days after
23:53
Audrey's body was found, like, very strange 5:00 in the
23:56
morning, poking around looking for something.
24:01
Yeah. So her friend calls the police
24:03
and reports what she saw. So on the 17th of April, again,
24:08
this happened all in end of March.
24:12
So now we're in mid-april, there was a breakthrough and it was
24:16
due to Kathleen Audrey's mom begging investigators to show
24:22
them like every piece of CCTV that captured her daughter that
24:26
night. She's, like, wanted to go
24:28
through it all and see, like, every step of her daughter's
24:31
night that was caught, like, wanted to go through it again.
24:35
And detectives were combing through the footage that they
24:39
had collected, like, weeks and weeks prior.
24:42
And they made a realization and noticed that at one point a man
24:48
was following Audrey now. You're joking.
24:52
Yeah. So it's like what's super
24:54
frustrating is that the mom was pushing so hard for them to go
24:59
through the footage again. And it's like, if she hadn't
25:01
been pushing, would they have ever even done that?
25:04
Yeah, so. I Would they have ever, I don't
25:07
know, looked through the evidence?
25:09
Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, so they did see the man
25:13
and he turned out to be Adrian Torrance.
25:20
And the image of him had been released to the public.
25:23
And the reason they were able to identify him is because his ex
25:28
partner, Michelle called the police to let them know.
25:31
Like, that's my ex-husband. He's been threatening my life
25:37
and he was threatening my life specifically the night that that
25:40
girl was murdered. Oh.
25:42
God. So detectives ended up tapping
25:47
Torrance's phone because now they had enough evidence to do
25:51
so. I love when they.
25:53
Do that. Yeah, so they tap his phone and
25:56
he ends up confessing to a friend.
25:58
Like on the phone, he tells them that he he did it, he committed
26:02
the crime. Does it say like how he said it
26:04
like? I no, I didn't see any details
26:07
about that. I don't know who the friend was
26:09
that he told. But it's like, it's crazy how
26:12
sometimes that happens, like right after the police tap the
26:14
phones, it's like. Like perfect timing.
26:16
Yes, right. So.
26:19
Yeah, 'cause it had been a while too like that.
26:21
Wow. Yeah.
26:22
I mean, that was the the proof that they needed at that point.
26:26
They they did have other evidence that was starting to
26:30
pile up with him. But I'd like, I think his phone
26:33
had pinged at the location. And so yeah, I think they must
26:38
have had his DNA too in the system, considering his multiple
26:42
arrests. And I think his DNA at that
26:44
point was under her fingernails. So.
26:48
April 21st he was arrested and this was after he confessed the
26:52
friend. He's finally arrested.
26:55
And Audrey's parents just talk about how that felt for them.
27:01
And they kind of just say like it was like she died all over
27:04
again. Like I think obviously there was
27:07
some type of, OK, they caught the guy and like we're, we're
27:11
glad that we knew it was more than what they thought it was.
27:17
But I think it continues to haunt them because there really
27:25
was never a why. So no.
27:29
You're really going to do this to me, this whole story, and we
27:31
don't know why. But The thing is like, we know
27:34
who did it. But guess.
27:36
So what they think happened is that Torrance was on his way to
27:43
Michelle's house because again, he had been threatening her that
27:47
night and they think she that he might have just spotted Audrey
27:52
And then like a blind fit of rage, like, just decided to
27:57
change his target. Very hard to like fully
28:01
understand, but that's where the theory comes from.
28:05
I mean, it reminds me a little bit of Annie Ross our first
28:08
episode. Like, you know, he was the, he
28:12
had divorced his wife and she looked kind of like her.
28:15
And you know, she, he sees her, and all of a sudden she's a
28:20
target. Yeah, it's, it's that whole like
28:22
psychology is very interesting. Yeah.
28:26
Like now that you say that, it is similar.
28:30
And so, like I said, he had been arrested.
28:33
He spent a total of three days behind bars before he ended up
28:38
taking his own life. Oh my God, yeah.
28:41
So that took away so many answers for the parents, like
28:46
the why, Like, I mean, obviously we're sitting here like we wish
28:49
we knew, but like, I can't imagine like for the parents.
28:53
Yeah, I mean even victims that like the whole story is
28:59
explained and it's the killer talks about why they did it and
29:02
you know, you can tie it up in a neat little boat.
29:05
Like I still I've heard so many stories where victims families
29:08
are like closure is not a thing. Closure doesn't exist.
29:12
Closure sounds like you're like closing a chapter.
29:14
And in reality, it just it never goes away and nothing really
29:18
makes it feel better. I can't even imagine though,
29:21
like, you know, cold case, you never know.
29:24
But I don't think there's I. There's no good.
29:29
Outcome right it's like and she's still dead at the end of
29:33
the day right so for. No reason, that poor girl.
29:37
I know. And Michelle had a bit of a
29:41
harder time processing her emotions because they were just
29:45
kind of all over the place. Where?
29:46
Survivor's guilt? Yes.
29:48
And I know in the 60 Minutes episode that I watched, she was
29:52
asked like, did you feel relief or was it like grief, sad,
29:57
everything in between? And she said like everything in
29:59
between. Like I honestly really struggled
30:02
and like didn't know how to feel or like how to move on from it.
30:07
Clearly like the survivors go like cannot imagine.
30:11
And something I did when I mentioned to back to the
30:14
investigation itself, Karen Webb was the NSW commissioner.
30:20
So the head of of the Police Department and everything.
30:24
Know what Commissioner means for you.
30:26
So she held that position in a century, like, she's the one
30:29
that has to answer all the hard questions.
30:32
And after this whole thing, there were those pressing
30:37
questions of like, why wasn't homicide brought in sooner?
30:40
Obviously, it's like the results didn't change.
30:44
And she kind of stands on that and says, like, well, at the end
30:47
of the day, we caught a killer and is backing, you know, her
30:52
detectives. And she's kind of questioned on
30:57
like, you know, they were so adamant on it being an
31:00
accidental drowning. Like they, they ended up being
31:04
wrong. And she's like, yeah, but you
31:06
know, we got to kill her off the street.
31:08
And it's like. Did you get the killer off the
31:10
street or did her mother and that?
31:12
Was that was also brought up by the woman who was interviewing
31:16
her? She was like, if that hadn't
31:18
been pressed by the mom, would they have been?
31:22
Even if they even went back and looked, would they have been
31:25
paying as close attention as as they would have with that
31:29
pressure applied? So just wanted to say before we
31:34
close that we want to acknowledge that domestic abuse
31:38
is a serious issue and if you or someone you know is experiencing
31:42
abuse, please seek help. Support is out there.
31:45
Contact a local hotline or professional service.
31:50
Wow, wow. Yeah.
31:52
This is a classic tale of somebody who should not be out
31:57
in the world ends up doing something that is just, like,
32:01
horribly damaging. Yeah.
32:03
To other people. Oh, my God, that poor girl.
32:08
I know. So did he.
32:10
I'm going to be weird and get into the specifics here.
32:12
Did he drown her? Like, I'm still confusing, like,
32:16
the cause of death. Like how did he kill her?
32:18
I actually, again, didn't see anything specifically about what
32:24
her cause of death was. Yeah.
32:27
Yeah, 'cause we didn't get the autopsy.
32:29
Yeah. And there might have been that
32:31
released, but there was never a trial because.
32:36
So none of these details came out.
32:38
Exactly. So he because he literally took
32:40
his own life after being in jail for only three days.
32:42
So there was never any evidence presented at that point.
32:47
They had at least the confession and I think for them, like, I
32:51
mean to the public, that was all that it was going to be from
32:54
what I understand so. Yeah, well, that is terrible.
33:02
And I feel like her story needs to be known.
33:05
I've never heard of it. I know and it's it's recent,
33:08
like super recent just happened. So my heart goes out to the
33:12
family because you could just hear and see like the pain in
33:17
their eyes and it's just like that feeling of like, why was it
33:22
our daughter, you know, so. Because like, you never think
33:25
it's going to be you. You know, like, I think about
33:28
this all the time. Like, you know, I've had friends
33:31
who have lost loved ones. Like really suddenly you never
33:35
think it's going to be you, let alone murder.
33:38
Which is just like, how does one wrap their brain around that and
33:42
still believe in humanity? After it, I can't even go there.
33:46
I literally cannot go there mentally because yeah, it's it's
33:50
just absolutely tragic. My dad actually had a friend who
33:53
was murdered and it it's terrible like and he was a
33:58
friend like from college, his college roommate, but like your
34:01
daughter. Well, again, it none, it's never
34:04
good no matter what you like your relation is, but I don't
34:07
think people sometimes truly realize the the way that it can
34:11
spread the impact. The impact just spreads.
34:14
It's, it's horrible. Or like, you know how like when
34:18
people die, you have wakes and I feel like every single time
34:22
everyone is so surprised by how many people show up.
34:25
You know, at least the wakes that you know, I've been to.
34:28
And it's so meaningful because again, you don't realize like
34:32
how many lives one person can touch even when they're 19.
34:37
Not to do another one, but my my favorite teacher in high school,
34:42
his daughter died at 16 on the field hockey field.
34:46
She had a brain aneurysm. Oh my gosh.
34:49
Yeah, brain aneurysm in the middle of practice just on a
34:52
random 16 years old and Oh my God, no, I'm going to cry.
34:58
I remember like finding, I remember finding out I'm just a
35:02
student of her father and I loved, he was like my favorite
35:06
teacher and I sobbed. I had never met her.
35:11
I didn't know much about his family at all.
35:14
And you know, I went to her wake and it's just, you never know
35:19
how many people's, how many lives like somebody can touch.
35:24
I kind of brought up the what your dad like had a a friend
35:30
that had been killed. My just a little mini story
35:35
here. My mom's best friend in high
35:37
school her dad killed the mom and my Nana was best friends
35:46
with her name was Carol. They worked at the hospital
35:49
together. They were literally best friends
35:51
and my mom and the daughter were best friends.
35:54
And the guy hated my Nana because she was always telling
36:00
her like you need to get out. And she was extremely abusive
36:05
and horrible situation. And my Nana tells me like the
36:10
day that she ended up being killed, they were supposed to go
36:14
on some like bus trip. They were nurses.
36:17
And like I think like they did like a little fun bus trip to
36:20
the city or something. I think it was like to New York.
36:23
And my Nana was waiting for her and she like did not show up.
36:27
And my Nana said she like immediately knew that because
36:31
she was so excited for this trip.
36:33
And I believe she called the police.
36:36
And after I think it was my mom's friend found the mom like
36:42
rolled up in a rug and they, yeah, they went to my nana's
36:48
house and like my mom had them there.
36:50
And then my Nana like took my mom and my mom's sister to my
36:57
nana's brother's house because they he knew where she lived.
37:01
And he was like, he like hates me and was afraid for her and
37:06
the girls so took my mom and everything.
37:09
And then when he was arrested, I think he was arrested in like he
37:15
went to some hotel like I think in Atlantic City, which from
37:19
where they lived was like a three hour drive or something.
37:22
So takes her there. And then once he was arrested,
37:27
my Nana was a witness, I believe, in the, in the trial.
37:33
Yeah. And she like, I don't think
37:35
talked about it much, but one day she kind of opened up and
37:38
told me like the whole story. And it was crazy.
37:42
That is so, Yeah. God, domestic abuse is just
37:46
absolutely horrible. I was just listening to a
37:48
podcast about a similar story. You know, like, And it's, it's
37:54
so wild because you think women especially just love and love
37:59
and love and see the Gray areas of everything.
38:02
And, you know, your brain gets almost like it gets conditioned
38:06
to think that everything's OK even when you know deep down
38:09
it's not OK. And psychologically, you look at
38:11
the psychology of it, your brain.
38:13
I mean, it's the same way that like an addict's brain changes
38:16
to feel like they need a drug to survive.
38:19
Like your brain, literally. Gives you.
38:20
The signals that you need it to survive.
38:22
Is that the the same way that you feel loved?
38:25
I mean, they talk about withdrawals from love is like
38:28
almost like withdrawals from drugs.
38:30
It's very similar. And then on top of that, the
38:32
emotional highs and lows, and then also somebody just kind of
38:37
beats you down to a point where you think that that's
38:39
acceptable. You think that that's maybe not
38:42
normal, but you think that this is what you deserve.
38:45
I can't imagine trying to dig yourself out of that hole.
38:48
And I, oh, I really hope Michelle gets help to get
38:54
through this. I'm so sorry.
38:56
That was the worst timing possible.
38:58
We're at Evie's house and her boyfriend just sneezed.
39:03
So loud, like a screams. Like it was a screams that
39:06
actually just made me. Can I?
39:08
Just say it triggers me every single time.
39:11
I'm so sorry, but I think on that note.
39:14
On that note. We're going to wrap up, but
39:17
yeah, I think just one last comment about domestic abuse,
39:22
domestic violence, like you don't even know how it's going
39:25
to manifest. Like in this situation, it
39:27
manifested to hurting somebody else, like outside of situation.
39:31
So like truly, if you need the help or know of anybody who
39:36
needs the help, please like reach out.
39:39
And I know it's scary and like I, I can't even begin to under
39:43
like fully understand it, but there are resources out there,
39:48
so and we will put some in the description as well.
39:51
Description. Yeah.
39:54
Well, on that note, all right, we will talk to you guys later
40:00
like it's a phone call. We'll talk to you guys in our
40:03
next episode. Thanks for listening.
40:05
Thanks guys. Love you.
40:09
That's it for today's episode. Thank you for listening.
40:12
If you're loving the show or hating it, make sure to follow
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40:17
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40:23
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