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Can the Cardinals commit to their youth movement plans? · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: Hello. We are recording this on Thursday, January ninth, but
0:08
Speaker 1: you are listening to it on Friday, January tenth. My
0:11
Speaker 1: name is Katie. We welcome to Cardinal Territory, part of
0:15
Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network. I am so thrilled to have
0:18
Speaker 1: a guest who needs no introduction today, but I'm going
0:21
Speaker 1: to give him one anyway. Bernie Nicholas joins the show.
0:24
Speaker 1: Someone I've looked up to for a very long time,
0:26
Speaker 1: just an absolute staple in Saint Louis Cardinals coverage. Bernie,
0:29
Speaker 1: and thrilled that you are here. Welcome.
0:31
Speaker 2: I am so flattered by that.
0:33
Speaker 3: I am a huge fan of yours and when the
0:36
Speaker 3: Athletic hired you, it didn't take me long to realize
0:40
Speaker 3: you were something special and it was something that would
0:44
Speaker 3: only take time for you to show that to everybody,
0:46
Speaker 3: and you get better and better and better. And I
0:50
Speaker 3: am thrilled that you asked me to be on today.
0:52
Speaker 2: So thank you very much.
0:54
Speaker 1: Well, thank you. That's very kind of you. And you
0:56
Speaker 1: know it says something every time I walk into the
0:58
Speaker 1: Bush Stadium Press. Your stories are the ones that are
1:02
Speaker 1: printed and framed all throughout and for good reasons. So obviously.
1:06
Speaker 1: I think when you just think about the Saint Louis
1:08
Speaker 1: baseball writers, the history of that, just a long line
1:12
Speaker 1: of exceptional journalism for me to try to live up too.
1:15
Speaker 3: So well, you're so high, you're doing great, you're doing great,
1:19
Speaker 3: and the best is yet to come.
1:21
Speaker 1: Well, thanks, I hope. So can we say that about
1:24
Speaker 1: the Saint Louis Cardinals. How about let's jump right into
1:28
Speaker 1: it right. Oh, it's your intro. Welcome to Cardinals territory.
1:32
Speaker 1: Every day or every time we record, I forget to
1:34
Speaker 1: do something along with the banners, but here we go.
1:36
Speaker 1: It's up. Let's go right into it. Today with MLB's
1:40
Speaker 1: arbitration deadline and Cardinals, they went three for six. That's
1:44
Speaker 1: a great batting average for your day. It's not so
1:47
Speaker 1: good when you're talking about twenty twenty five contracts. So
1:50
Speaker 1: quick recap for those of you who missed it. The
1:54
Speaker 1: Cardinals agreed to twenty twenty five contracts with Ryan Helsley,
1:59
Speaker 1: Jojo Romero, John King. They did not with Bars new
2:03
Speaker 1: bar Brendan Donovan and Andre Polante. For a team that
2:07
Speaker 1: is so focused on the youth movement of twenty twenty five,
2:10
Speaker 1: it was a little surprising for me to see these
2:12
Speaker 1: three names not able to settle on contract terms for
2:16
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. Bernie, what are you thinking?
2:18
Speaker 3: Well, I'm with you, and this is kind of a
2:20
Speaker 3: Cardinal thing. I mean, I can't have surprised just from
2:24
Speaker 3: an overview, but with these three guys in particular, I've
2:30
Speaker 3: never understood why they want to go to the mat
2:32
Speaker 3: as often as they do in arbitration hearings. I know
2:36
Speaker 3: the Cardinals are going to do their Cardinals thing, but
2:39
Speaker 3: you would think that in an off season where nothing's
2:42
Speaker 3: basically happened. I mean, nothing has happened, and they're on
2:46
Speaker 3: hold because of Nolan Aarnado and everything's like on freeze,
2:49
Speaker 3: and the fans are disappointed or anxious or angry, whatever
2:54
Speaker 3: you want to call it. It just seems weird to
2:57
Speaker 3: me that you would take this particular time and in
3:00
Speaker 3: effect like start a fight with three of your players
3:03
Speaker 3: that's not really a fight, but you know what I mean,
3:05
Speaker 3: you were around. I mean that arbitration hearing and all
3:09
Speaker 3: the drama that went with that really really affected impacted
3:13
Speaker 3: Tyler O'Neil.
3:14
Speaker 2: I mean it really really did.
3:16
Speaker 3: And I don't know what kind of money we're talking
3:19
Speaker 3: about the difference between what the Cardinals are offering and
3:22
Speaker 3: what the players want.
3:24
Speaker 2: It just always seems to me that, you know, why
3:27
Speaker 2: not have a.
3:28
Speaker 3: Happy team and a fully motivated team and send a
3:31
Speaker 3: signal to your fans that you're not going to quibble
3:35
Speaker 3: over relatively small amounts of money.
3:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely agree, and you think that would be
3:39
Speaker 1: a somewhat easy concept. But it wasn't. It didn't. It
3:43
Speaker 1: did not shake out that way. Now, I do want
3:45
Speaker 1: to say that the Cardinals, like you said, are kind
3:47
Speaker 1: of in a holding pattern with Nolan or not. I
3:50
Speaker 1: think they planned to have been rid of that seventy
3:53
Speaker 1: four million dollar salary by now, which have made the
3:55
Speaker 1: arbitration process and the whole off season a lot easier. However,
3:59
Speaker 1: it's been the theme of the offseason, and I'm sure
4:01
Speaker 1: we'll get into it. They haven't traded him. They're unsure
4:03
Speaker 1: if they're going to be able to most still has
4:06
Speaker 1: to cut payroll. The Cardinals also knew that Brian Helsley
4:09
Speaker 1: was due for a major raise in arbitration, and he
4:11
Speaker 1: got it. He settled for eight point two million dollars,
4:14
Speaker 1: a raise of almost four point five million dollars from
4:17
Speaker 1: last year very well deserved. He was one of the best,
4:19
Speaker 1: if not the best believers in baseball last year let
4:22
Speaker 1: MLB with forty nine saves, and the Cardinals did not
4:25
Speaker 1: want to take him to a hearing. Like Tyler O'Neill
4:28
Speaker 1: that you mentioned, Brian Helsley did not love the arbitration
4:30
Speaker 1: hearing process two years ago and was very candid on
4:33
Speaker 1: how it negatively impacted him as well. That meant a
4:37
Speaker 1: little bit more difficulty because again Moe does still have
4:40
Speaker 1: to trim some payroll and he has to get creative
4:42
Speaker 1: and how to do it. So, your first year in arbitration,
4:46
Speaker 1: commonly referred to as a player's platform year, is often
4:49
Speaker 1: considered the most important, and when you think about why,
4:52
Speaker 1: it makes sense. These are the years the first time
4:54
Speaker 1: that players can really see a substantial raise at you know,
4:57
Speaker 1: unless you are a Super two player under polant Is
5:00
Speaker 1: in this case, you don't get arbitration until three years
5:04
Speaker 1: of major league service time, where you're often making the
5:06
Speaker 1: major league minimum. Now, when you get to arbitration and
5:09
Speaker 1: you have that first year to start bargaining for yourself, really,
5:13
Speaker 1: if you settle for something that's low, that's going to
5:16
Speaker 1: impact your raise in year two and in year three,
5:20
Speaker 1: so I can understand why maybe the representatives of these
5:23
Speaker 1: players new Bar and Polante are represented by Wasserman, Brendan
5:28
Speaker 1: Donovan is represented by the Bloodsoe Agency are pushing a
5:31
Speaker 1: little bit stronger for higher floors. And it also makes
5:35
Speaker 1: sense because when you think about the big theme of
5:37
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, it's the youth movement, and Brendan Donovan,
5:41
Speaker 1: Lars Newpar and Andre Polante have all been actively promoted
5:45
Speaker 1: as key players in that youth movement. So I saw
5:49
Speaker 1: something on Twitter. I can't credit the account because I
5:51
Speaker 1: can't remember the name, but it did make me laugh.
5:53
Speaker 1: Someone said the Cardinals had promised opportunities for all of
5:56
Speaker 1: their young players. I guess that also includes the opportunity
5:59
Speaker 1: to go through arbitration hearings. Got a good laugh out
6:02
Speaker 1: of me.
6:03
Speaker 2: I like that.
6:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a very you know, just because a team
6:08
Speaker 1: does not come to terms with a player before the
6:11
Speaker 1: deadline doesn't mean that they can't continue trading numbers. However,
6:15
Speaker 1: this has not really been the Cardinals approach. They are
6:18
Speaker 1: usually a file trial club, so we'll see how this
6:20
Speaker 1: shakes out. I believe hearings are scheduled for early in March.
6:24
Speaker 3: Well, we'll see how it shakes out, but those are
6:27
Speaker 3: three really important guys for twenty twenty five. I just
6:30
Speaker 3: kind of prefer clear the head, you know, before you
6:35
Speaker 3: go to spring training and.
6:37
Speaker 2: Get ready for the regular season. All players are wired differently.
6:41
Speaker 3: As you know, so maybe in the case of these
6:44
Speaker 3: three guys, it won't bother them. They kind of know
6:48
Speaker 3: what's up. And they're not exactly real young kids either.
6:51
Speaker 3: They've been around a.
6:51
Speaker 1: While for sure, and you know it's again, it's arbitration.
6:56
Speaker 1: Everyone handles it differently. I do wonder though, if you're
7:00
Speaker 1: looking at next year. This is something that we saw
7:04
Speaker 1: with Tommy Edman last year. Right The Cardinals did not
7:07
Speaker 1: settle with him before the deadline, but they went on
7:09
Speaker 1: to negotiate a two year contract through his remaining our bears.
7:13
Speaker 1: I know there's been some floats about that out there.
7:16
Speaker 1: It does not look like any of these players, whether
7:19
Speaker 1: it's Donnie new or Blaze, ever got close with extension talks.
7:24
Speaker 1: That would really surprise me if they did, because there
7:27
Speaker 1: is such big uncertainty over the front office next year. Right, Look,
7:30
Speaker 1: we know that Moe is going to step down him
7:32
Speaker 1: bloom is taking over. We don't know what players him
7:35
Speaker 1: wants to build around. We don't know what his plans
7:37
Speaker 1: for twenty twenty six and beyond our So while yes,
7:40
Speaker 1: there is a chance that the Cardinals could leave the
7:42
Speaker 1: door open and negotiate and M'll tell your deals, I
7:44
Speaker 1: personally don't see that very likely because I think the
7:47
Speaker 1: front office turnover just leaves too much out there. There's
7:51
Speaker 1: nothing definitive out there to plan past twenty twenty five.
7:53
Speaker 1: That's the whole reason they're doing this, right, They don't
7:56
Speaker 1: know what they have. They want to figure it out
7:58
Speaker 1: so they can plan for twenty twenty six. Well, I,
8:01
Speaker 1: for one, am in the in the camp of if
8:03
Speaker 1: you think a player is going to be part of
8:04
Speaker 1: your long term future, why not lock him down. I
8:08
Speaker 1: don't see that happening right now, just because we don't
8:10
Speaker 1: really know what this front office change.
8:13
Speaker 3: And it's just it's a it's certainly a compelling situation
8:16
Speaker 3: because I like the idea of heim Bloom starting fresh
8:21
Speaker 3: and with a clean slate, and there's no leftover business
8:25
Speaker 3: that maybe John Moselek had wanted to do, whether it
8:28
Speaker 3: was a couple of years ago or now, that would
8:31
Speaker 3: somehow make it more difficult for heim Bloom to sort
8:33
Speaker 3: of get off to the kind of start that he
8:35
Speaker 3: wants to. I got to assume, and you know better
8:38
Speaker 3: than I do, obviously, I got to assume that they're
8:40
Speaker 3: they're in regular contact and you know, are probably generally
8:45
Speaker 3: on the same page. But that's one of the most
8:48
Speaker 3: fascinating things to me about the Cardinals. And I am
8:51
Speaker 3: looking ahead a little bit. You know, it's Mozillic's final year,
8:55
Speaker 3: and he's got a tough job in that regard because
8:58
Speaker 3: of all the things that they're trying to do for
9:01
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, and you know, so many fans are
9:04
Speaker 3: disillusioned or whatever. But you know, on top of that,
9:08
Speaker 3: it's like, I don't know exactly what to expect from
9:10
Speaker 3: heim Bloom. I mean, we know a lot from his background,
9:14
Speaker 3: especially with Tampa Bay Rob Sorfolio to his background with
9:19
Speaker 3: the Cleveland Guardians, and we know that they're both really
9:22
Speaker 3: really highly educated in drafting and player development and having
9:28
Speaker 3: all the cutting edge technology and facilities and tools that
9:32
Speaker 3: young players need to succeed. So I think I think
9:35
Speaker 3: Heim Bloom and Rob Sfolio and some of the recruits
9:39
Speaker 3: that are bringing in are really going to make and no,
9:42
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but it'll really get
9:45
Speaker 3: the Cardinals up to speed. It'll modernize them. It'll be
9:48
Speaker 3: given more forward thinking approach to things. They'll be more
9:52
Speaker 3: efficient with payroll. They'll certainly it'll take time. They'll certainly
9:56
Speaker 3: have a pipeline flowing to Saint Louis, which.
10:00
Speaker 2: It's been really really hard for them.
10:01
Speaker 3: I mean, the Cardinals of that have not had a
10:03
Speaker 3: homegrown position player make an All Star team since Paul
10:07
Speaker 3: de Young, and I think that was only because they
10:11
Speaker 3: needed to have a representative to Saint Louis and they
10:14
Speaker 3: had their last starting pitcher who was a homegrown guy
10:18
Speaker 3: in the All Star Game was Carlos Martinez. But even
10:20
Speaker 3: that one's kind of weird because the Cardinals only got
10:23
Speaker 3: him after Boston kind of screwed up their attempt to
10:26
Speaker 3: sign him and MLB voided the contract. So you know,
10:31
Speaker 3: I I've been around so long, I'm so used to
10:34
Speaker 3: and I don't live in the past. But I'm just saying, man,
10:36
Speaker 3: it's you go back in contrast all of these excellent
10:41
Speaker 3: homegrown players and starting pitchers especially, and you can see
10:46
Speaker 3: how this finally caught up to the Cardinals, and I
10:49
Speaker 3: know that Hein Bloom is going to remedy to that,
10:52
Speaker 3: but beyond that, I don't know, like will he want
10:56
Speaker 3: to be more aggressive about spending money. I mean, you know,
10:59
Speaker 3: in Boston, I don't blame him for the Mookie Bets thing.
11:01
Speaker 3: And I'm sorry if I'm wandering off topic. Illogize.
11:04
Speaker 1: I love that there are rules.
11:07
Speaker 2: Okay, cool, No, I don't know that. I don't blame
11:11
Speaker 2: him for Mookie Betts.
11:13
Speaker 3: But you know a couple of friends of mine who
11:15
Speaker 3: know Hein Bloom really well, I believe them. You know,
11:18
Speaker 3: he was pretty much forced into trading bets. You could
11:21
Speaker 3: make the case maybe he should have got more for bets.
11:24
Speaker 3: I would argue that the ownership told him once they
11:27
Speaker 3: told him to trade bets, and that word got out.
11:30
Speaker 3: Heim Bloom's leverage was really compromised, So I really don't
11:33
Speaker 3: hold that against him too much. However, his one big
11:36
Speaker 3: move in terms of spending money was to give a
11:38
Speaker 3: lot of money to Trevor's story and that hasn't worked out.
11:41
Speaker 3: So I don't know what kind of aggressiveness he'll he'll
11:45
Speaker 3: be allowed to have in terms of raising the pay roll,
11:48
Speaker 3: going hard after premium free agents or at least upper
11:53
Speaker 3: level free agents, because the Tampa Bay model and the
11:57
Speaker 3: Cleveland model will work. Really, the Cardinals really neat that
12:00
Speaker 3: to re establish their foundation of internally produced talent. But
12:06
Speaker 3: after that, it's somewhere down the line. If the Cardinals
12:08
Speaker 3: are flowing, the pipeline's flowing, they'll have to separate themselves
12:13
Speaker 3: from the Tampa Bay and the Cleveland model because those
12:16
Speaker 3: teams are very limited financially. The Cardinals really aren't. They're
12:19
Speaker 3: not going to spend with the Dodgers or the Mets.
12:22
Speaker 3: But the beauty of the Tampa Bay and the Cleveland system,
12:26
Speaker 3: if you put that in Saint Louis, is that rather
12:29
Speaker 3: than let their own players get away because oh we
12:31
Speaker 3: don't have the money, or rather than say, oh well,
12:34
Speaker 3: we can't really go out and do that, the Cardinals
12:37
Speaker 3: will have the financial cloud to be able to do
12:39
Speaker 3: those things. And so when I talk to fans about this,
12:42
Speaker 3: I said, listen, don't get too hung up on the
12:45
Speaker 3: fact that Tampa Bay hasn't won a World Series or
12:47
Speaker 3: Cleveland hasn't won a World Series. I mean those two teams,
12:50
Speaker 3: given their payroll spot sizes and given them meager resources,
12:54
Speaker 3: they can only get to things so high, and they've
12:58
Speaker 3: out punched their weight class repeatedly. But to be a
13:02
Speaker 3: World Series contender or a champion, the Cardinals can sort
13:07
Speaker 3: of finish that off. You have the Tampa Bay and
13:09
Speaker 3: Cleveland model and it gets you so far and it's
13:11
Speaker 3: really good, it's really impressive. That's when the ownership and
13:15
Speaker 3: the front office comes in. Okay, where do they take
13:17
Speaker 3: it from there? Because then you have to finish off
13:19
Speaker 3: this nice thing you're building.
13:22
Speaker 1: No, I think you are spot on. And when we're
13:24
Speaker 1: thinking about the High and Bloom era, we're thinking about
13:27
Speaker 1: the youth movement a little bit right. And look, I
13:29
Speaker 1: understand why the Cardinals went out and are revamping their
13:33
Speaker 1: player development system. They have desperately needed to do that
13:36
Speaker 1: for years. And you know, they had a relatively unsatisfying
13:40
Speaker 1: press conference at the end of the year in which
13:42
Speaker 1: they kind of admitted why they were doing it, but
13:44
Speaker 1: really wanted to say everything was fine. Don't worry. We're
13:47
Speaker 1: only revamping our entire player development system and doing a
13:50
Speaker 1: ton of additional hires, but don't worry. Everything's fine. And
13:54
Speaker 1: the reason that they're going out and they put hind
13:56
Speaker 1: Bloom in front of this is for exactly what you
13:58
Speaker 1: just said. He's very good at this. He's built a career,
14:00
Speaker 1: He's established himself in Major League Baseball as a pioneer
14:03
Speaker 1: in modern player development. Rob'sortfolio is seen as like a
14:06
Speaker 1: rising star right under him the Cleveland Guardians great player
14:10
Speaker 1: development system, the Tampa Bay Rays powerhouse, the new director
14:13
Speaker 1: of pitching him from the Seattle Mariners. Have you seen
14:15
Speaker 1: that rotation? One of the best in baseball? So I'm
14:18
Speaker 1: on board with it. Again, I've never once really been
14:20
Speaker 1: against what the Cardinals are doing this year. Is it
14:22
Speaker 1: disappointing that they're going to, you know, flat out saying, hey,
14:26
Speaker 1: this is probably not going to be our best season ever. Yeah,
14:28
Speaker 1: of course, it's the same it was Cardinals. You can
14:30
Speaker 1: afford to do both at the same time. However, at
14:33
Speaker 1: this little gaff year, which is what they're planning it
14:35
Speaker 1: to be, brings the Cardinals back to what they were
14:38
Speaker 1: always so good at, which was drafting and developing home
14:41
Speaker 1: grown players and then utilizing those players, not letting them walk,
14:45
Speaker 1: but utilizing those players to be competitive and be that
14:49
Speaker 1: core so that they could go out and smartly spend
14:52
Speaker 1: free agent supplementary pieces, not going out and building an
14:55
Speaker 1: entire rotation out of free agency and hoping it works.
14:58
Speaker 1: Then you know, I think that's what you do.
15:00
Speaker 3: Right now, I'm very much I'm very much in approval
15:05
Speaker 3: of what the Cardinals approach is going to be. Could
15:07
Speaker 3: I and this is relevant. I'm not just like throwing
15:09
Speaker 3: out a random stat you know me, I'm a numbers nerd.
15:13
Speaker 2: But I did.
15:14
Speaker 3: I did a video on my YouTube channel where I
15:16
Speaker 3: was talking about the Cardinals really are smart to emulate
15:18
Speaker 3: the Tampa Bay and the Cleveland model. Now, a lot
15:20
Speaker 3: of Cardinals fans were pushed back on that. They were
15:23
Speaker 3: almost offended, like it's like, well, when do they won
15:26
Speaker 3: a World Series? Cardinals won eleven World Series. Well, listen,
15:28
Speaker 3: I think we were sort of past this time where
15:32
Speaker 3: like Bill DeWitt, the chairman of the team, can like
15:35
Speaker 3: stand up at a press conference and say, you know,
15:38
Speaker 3: to the fans who are disappointed and just say, well,
15:41
Speaker 3: I know everyone's mad, but we won three World Series
15:44
Speaker 3: in the nineteen forties. I Mean there comes a time
15:47
Speaker 3: where you can't just you know, hide behind your trophies, right,
15:51
Speaker 3: CKT correct, And here's the stat. So I had to
15:54
Speaker 3: set that up. And this is why they should emulate
15:56
Speaker 3: Tampa Bay in Cleveland. Right, the last ten years, the
16:00
Speaker 3: Cardinals have outspent the Tampa Bay Rays by three hundred
16:07
Speaker 3: and fifty million dollars, and they've outspent Cleveland by one
16:11
Speaker 3: hundred and forty five million dollars. Right, pretty large sums
16:14
Speaker 3: of money in terms of a spending advantage. Over the
16:19
Speaker 3: ten years, the Rays and the Guardians have won more
16:23
Speaker 3: regular season games in Saint Louis, They've won more postseason
16:26
Speaker 3: games in Saint Louis, they have a lower ra than
16:30
Speaker 3: Saint Louis, They've scored more runs than Saint Louis, and
16:34
Speaker 3: unlike Saint Louis, they've each been in a World Series
16:37
Speaker 3: over that time. So I'm thinking, well, why would anyone
16:42
Speaker 3: and I really mean this and I don't really get
16:43
Speaker 3: like salty, sorry, but why would any Cardinals fan be
16:47
Speaker 3: opposed to having a smart player development operation that gives
16:51
Speaker 3: them a tactical advantage when they're trying to, you know,
16:56
Speaker 3: sort of win the IQ battle with an organization like Milwaukee,
17:00
Speaker 3: Like if you know when you when you are spending
17:03
Speaker 3: that much more money than Cleveland and Tampa Bay, but
17:06
Speaker 3: you're not winning as much as they are. Over ten years.
17:10
Speaker 3: I mean, hello, I think that's a wake up call.
17:13
Speaker 3: I don't know why there are Cardinals fans, and I
17:15
Speaker 3: don't know how many I just happen to hear from
17:17
Speaker 3: them who were resistant to this, you know, like looking.
17:20
Speaker 2: Down on Tampa Bay and Cleveland.
17:22
Speaker 3: I mean, to me, that's a little cuckoo quite frankly
17:25
Speaker 3: pretty branding.
17:26
Speaker 1: With those numbers. That's spending. You crush this because if
17:31
Speaker 1: you're spending that much money and teams and you know,
17:34
Speaker 1: I think the Cardinals are claiming a little bit of
17:36
Speaker 1: frugality here with their cutting payroll for all of their
17:39
Speaker 1: various reasons, and you're overspending that much to see minimal
17:44
Speaker 1: results compared to what the very high expectations are in
17:47
Speaker 1: the city, and they are deserved. You can't can't claim
17:50
Speaker 1: the trophies and flun out the history and then next
17:53
Speaker 1: done when fans all of a sudden are like, what's
17:56
Speaker 1: going on, That's not how this works. I just it
18:00
Speaker 1: rubs me the wrong way. Sometimes when I think the
18:04
Speaker 1: Saint Louis Cardinals, whoever's representing them at the time, will say, well, yeah,
18:09
Speaker 1: we've had a really good run they had. Cardinals ownership
18:12
Speaker 1: has had an insane run. I think John mozaylock because
18:15
Speaker 1: this is what have you done for me?
18:16
Speaker 3: Now?
18:17
Speaker 1: Business people have forgotten just how great that first half was.
18:21
Speaker 1: But you can't hide behind that. And more and more
18:25
Speaker 1: we're seeing the Cardinals get exposed on just not only
18:28
Speaker 1: falling behind, but really getting lapped, especially in areas that
18:32
Speaker 1: they used to be so good at. And if you
18:35
Speaker 1: want the Cardinals to go back to winning World Series
18:38
Speaker 1: and being a powerhouse, they're never going to spend like
18:40
Speaker 1: the Dodgers. They're never going to spend like the Mets.
18:42
Speaker 1: They never have. They need to get back to drafting
18:45
Speaker 1: and developing players. It's how they've been good. It's how
18:48
Speaker 1: they created an entire identity. They should have the model
18:51
Speaker 1: of the Rays and the Guardians because they have the
18:54
Speaker 1: ability and the resources to do it even better if
18:57
Speaker 1: they hire the right people. And I at least am
18:59
Speaker 1: under depression that they're off to a good start.
19:01
Speaker 3: In that regard, I think they're off to a great start.
19:03
Speaker 3: And to bring it closer to home, and I've used
19:05
Speaker 3: this stat a lot, so you know, pardon me if
19:08
Speaker 3: I'm you know, doing it again, but I think it's relevant. Okay,
19:12
Speaker 3: since twenty seventeen, the Brewers have pretty much owned the Cardinals.
19:17
Speaker 3: I mean, they've won more division championships, they've made the
19:20
Speaker 3: playoffs more times, and they've won more regular season games,
19:25
Speaker 3: and right on down the line, right they've they've kind
19:29
Speaker 3: of embarrassed the Cardinals, considering that since twenty seventeen, the
19:33
Speaker 3: Cardinals have outspent the Brewers by over four hundred million dollars.
19:38
Speaker 3: So I don't throw that out there to take a
19:41
Speaker 3: shot at John Mozleak.
19:42
Speaker 2: I'd throw that out there in an.
19:44
Speaker 3: Attempt to kind of maybe helped some fans understand that
19:51
Speaker 3: what the Cardinals are doing now with this initiative to renovate,
19:55
Speaker 3: rehabilitate their player development system what used to be builded
19:58
Speaker 3: with Baby. By the way, it's absolutely necessary because when
20:02
Speaker 3: you're out spending the Brewers by four hundred, four hundred
20:05
Speaker 3: and twenty five million dollars since twenty seventeen, you're constantly
20:09
Speaker 3: chasing them, Doesn't that tell you know.
20:13
Speaker 2: Something went wrong here?
20:14
Speaker 3: Maybe you need to kind of start from the roots
20:18
Speaker 3: on up and quit worrying about chasing medium level free
20:22
Speaker 3: agents who aren't going to like move the needle for
20:24
Speaker 3: you that much.
20:25
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up the Brewers because it reminds
20:27
Speaker 1: me of one of the last conversations I have with
20:29
Speaker 1: Nolan Arnatto at the end of the twenty twenty four season.
20:31
Speaker 1: I was talking to him and Paul Goldschmidt, and to
20:33
Speaker 1: their credit, I sprang this on them last minute, and
20:36
Speaker 1: they were more than willing to do it, and they
20:38
Speaker 1: were more willing to be candid about it. And Nolan said,
20:41
Speaker 1: you know, talking about his four years in Saint Louis,
20:44
Speaker 1: the Brewers had won the division three out of four times,
20:46
Speaker 1: And I remember how he said it, and I remember
20:48
Speaker 1: the quote exactly. He said, that's really tough, and his
20:51
Speaker 1: voice trailed off for a second and he kind of shrugged,
20:53
Speaker 1: and he said, because I thought that would have been us,
20:56
Speaker 1: and I too, when I joined the Cardinals in twenty
20:58
Speaker 1: twenty one, did not envision them a Hockey Brewers going
21:00
Speaker 1: three for four in division titles. And I think it
21:03
Speaker 1: just goes to show where the Cardinals are currently and
21:06
Speaker 1: where they need to be. But speaking of Nolan Arnado,
21:10
Speaker 1: h surprise that time on the show, no new updates,
21:14
Speaker 1: so we're going to skip that. But I was thinking,
21:17
Speaker 1: as we get closer and closer to pitchers and catchers
21:20
Speaker 1: reporting there's a growing likelihood, at least for now, that
21:24
Speaker 1: Nolan remains with the club. How will that impact this
21:28
Speaker 1: youth movement that has been so pivotal for the Cardinals.
21:32
Speaker 1: I mean, they've been so adamant that this is what
21:34
Speaker 1: they're going to do. They're going to create new opportunities
21:36
Speaker 1: for the players. And something again I agree with, how
21:39
Speaker 1: does that work with Nolan Arnada playing third base? Because
21:41
Speaker 1: he's not coming here and not playing third base every day.
21:44
Speaker 1: That's just not how this works.
21:46
Speaker 3: You've done a fantastic job at the athletic of just
21:48
Speaker 3: kind of susten all this out, and certainly on Cardinals
21:51
Speaker 3: territory you've done the same. I enjoy watching you with
21:54
Speaker 3: Trevor Rosenthal, who's such a great guy, and you've pointed
21:58
Speaker 3: out some of the ramifications. I mean, first of all,
22:00
Speaker 3: what they really want Nolan Gorman is to be, you know,
22:03
Speaker 3: to get six hundred plate appearances or so at third base,
22:06
Speaker 3: see if his natural position, he'll be a good solid
22:09
Speaker 3: third basement there. And then by then by doing that,
22:13
Speaker 3: you know, you could you could do a number of things.
22:16
Speaker 3: You could have Brendan Donovan as your primary second basement.
22:19
Speaker 2: You can still move them around.
22:21
Speaker 3: Thomas A jac would have more of a prominent role
22:25
Speaker 3: rather than maybe no role at all. You you, you,
22:29
Speaker 3: there's so many there's so many different ripple effects to this. Uh,
22:34
Speaker 3: if you have Gorman at third base, you you don't
22:37
Speaker 3: have to necessarily or feel is perhaps as much of
22:42
Speaker 3: a pressing need to slash slash slash moor payroll because
22:45
Speaker 3: you've gotten gotten uh uh, you've rid yourself of a
22:48
Speaker 3: lot of the Aronato money. I mean, it just goes
22:52
Speaker 3: right on down the line. And I didn't even you know,
22:54
Speaker 3: talk about some other stuff like if if Ironado's here,
22:58
Speaker 3: And I'm gonna defer to you on that because I
23:01
Speaker 3: heard what you told Trevor Rosenthal in the most recent video,
23:04
Speaker 3: and I agree with what you said. You know, iron Otto,
23:08
Speaker 3: Like I always wonder, okay, is he really going to
23:10
Speaker 3: be happy here? Can he just shake all this off
23:13
Speaker 3: if he comes back? Will this just be something that
23:17
Speaker 3: just eats at him? And you you believe and you listen,
23:21
Speaker 3: you've interviewed him a lot and written a lot about
23:24
Speaker 3: him where he has been a very cooperative interviewee, right,
23:28
Speaker 3: so I trust what you say about him you say
23:30
Speaker 3: he's a pro. He'll come to work and he'll try
23:34
Speaker 3: to do his best, and I got to think that
23:37
Speaker 3: that's correct.
23:38
Speaker 2: I do. But we'll find out. I guess.
23:40
Speaker 3: I don't know whether to say I hope we'll find out,
23:43
Speaker 3: or maybe we'll find out, because it's still very much
23:46
Speaker 3: up in the air.
23:47
Speaker 1: It is it is, and you know, I can't speak
23:49
Speaker 1: for Nolan, but if he comes back to Saint Louis
23:52
Speaker 1: and he's unhappy about it, you I don't think fans
23:54
Speaker 1: are going to be able to tell, you know, if anything,
23:56
Speaker 1: I think he'll be pretty motivated as it, Like, Hey,
23:58
Speaker 1: you know, I used to be a superstar and all
24:01
Speaker 1: of a sudden, nobody wants to trade for me. I'm
24:02
Speaker 1: going to take that personally. But it is kind of
24:06
Speaker 1: an interesting scenario because no matter what happens, it's going
24:09
Speaker 1: to be chaotic. Right, he either gets traded at the
24:11
Speaker 1: last second or he stays. And again, I think the
24:15
Speaker 1: likelihood him staying is growing stronger each week we get
24:18
Speaker 1: closer to spring training. If he stays, there's no room
24:22
Speaker 1: for Nolan Gorman at third base, at least because again
24:25
Speaker 1: Arnato was going to play there every day. Donovan couldn't
24:27
Speaker 1: go back to being the super utility. We know that
24:29
Speaker 1: about him, but I you know, I think it would
24:31
Speaker 1: be nice for a player to have a home for once.
24:34
Speaker 1: You know, if he's going and bouncing back between the
24:35
Speaker 1: infield and the outfield, that's logjamming the outfield. We know
24:38
Speaker 1: that they want to see a new bar out there
24:40
Speaker 1: every day. They have to see Jordan Walker out there
24:42
Speaker 1: every day. They have to get Jordan Walker, right. What's
24:44
Speaker 1: that going to mean for the center field spot with
24:47
Speaker 1: Michael Sianni Victor Scott the second what's that going to
24:49
Speaker 1: mean for Alec Burlson. We don't know. He's already relatively
24:51
Speaker 1: blocked with Caturis at first base. So I think what
24:54
Speaker 1: I'm watching as we get closer to spring is if
24:58
Speaker 1: the Cardinals can pull off this youth movement that they
25:01
Speaker 1: have tried so hard to sell the fans on. And
25:04
Speaker 1: I think it would be very messy if the Cardinals
25:09
Speaker 1: are all of a sudden rolling out a very similar
25:11
Speaker 1: roster to last year, Because right now I'm looking at it,
25:14
Speaker 1: the twenty six man roster minus a couple of key
25:17
Speaker 1: pictures looks exactly the same.
25:21
Speaker 3: You're so right, and I've been a little bit of
25:23
Speaker 3: a skeptic about the youth movement because I want to
25:26
Speaker 3: believe in it, and I think that they're going to
25:28
Speaker 3: try that, but I don't know that they're going to
25:31
Speaker 3: go all the way with it, and I would kind
25:32
Speaker 3: of like to see them go all the way with it.
25:34
Speaker 3: They're kind of hedging a little bit, and I know
25:37
Speaker 3: they also have to sort of strike a tone where
25:40
Speaker 3: they're not They don't want the fans to think they're
25:42
Speaker 3: throwing away the season. But for where I sit, and
25:44
Speaker 3: I think you and I agree on this, they're not
25:47
Speaker 3: throwing away a season because this must be done right now.
25:51
Speaker 3: It's far to find out everything you need to learn
25:54
Speaker 3: about guys that could be a big part of your
25:56
Speaker 3: future or not. So the Car's actually started playing a
26:01
Speaker 3: lot of young players last season, you know, so this
26:04
Speaker 3: is almost kind of like year two of this. But
26:07
Speaker 3: it's just that they've declared it as such, which they
26:09
Speaker 3: didn't do last year. So I just don't know, you know,
26:16
Speaker 3: you know, I believe that, you know, you go all
26:19
Speaker 3: in with this movement, and I'm a little cold hearted,
26:23
Speaker 3: I guess. But if you have assets and they're entering
26:26
Speaker 3: their walk, ear trade them. If there's good offers for them,
26:29
Speaker 3: you know, move that I kind of think that something
26:32
Speaker 3: heim Bloom might be inclined to do. But that's not
26:35
Speaker 3: fair because I don't know for sure.
26:37
Speaker 2: But let me throw the question at you.
26:40
Speaker 3: Do you think they're going far enough with the youth movement?
26:45
Speaker 3: Will they go far enough? And I know if iron
26:47
Speaker 3: Ido comes back, well it changes a lot of the plans,
26:50
Speaker 3: But I just wonder about how far they go we're
26:53
Speaker 3: going to go with the plans even with him gone?
26:55
Speaker 2: What educate me on that? I really would like to
26:58
Speaker 2: hear your opinion.
27:00
Speaker 1: So when they first did their ill fated end of
27:03
Speaker 1: VIRA press conference, I was kind of on board because I,
27:06
Speaker 1: for one, did not envision Sonny gray Stain and I
27:09
Speaker 1: did not envision Wilson Contras accepting the move to first base.
27:13
Speaker 1: So I thought there would be much better openings right
27:17
Speaker 1: without contraras you could probably slide some people in different
27:21
Speaker 1: positions without Sunny Gray, more opportunity for some of the
27:24
Speaker 1: young pictures. I did assume, maybe incorrectly, that Nolan Arnatto
27:28
Speaker 1: would be traded and Ryan Helsley as well does not
27:32
Speaker 1: look likely for either. Again, so knowing that they have
27:36
Speaker 1: some some stipulations, right, Miles Michaelis, he can't trade him,
27:39
Speaker 1: he has a no trade I don't know if they're
27:41
Speaker 1: going to be able to trade Steven Matt I don't
27:42
Speaker 1: know what his value is. There are some contracts that
27:44
Speaker 1: they've locked themselves into, so I'm going to eliminate that
27:47
Speaker 1: part because there's not really much they can do about it. Right,
27:50
Speaker 1: I'm not sure and I think this goes too And
27:52
Speaker 1: I'm not saying whether this is not, you know, a
27:54
Speaker 1: right or wrong decision. You think John Mozelac wants to
27:57
Speaker 1: lose in his lat in general, but in his life
28:00
Speaker 1: last year, after what he's done for this organization, for
28:02
Speaker 1: this city, for Major League Baseball. Look, I know that
28:05
Speaker 1: he's not immune from criticism, but he's had a heck
28:07
Speaker 1: of a tenure at top of the Saint Louis Cardinals.
28:09
Speaker 1: Do you think he's happy about this? Of course not. No,
28:12
Speaker 1: he wants to win. Still, I don't blame him. It's
28:14
Speaker 1: the Saint Louis Cardinals. You should be trying to win
28:16
Speaker 1: every single year. At the same time, if you're trying
28:20
Speaker 1: to find a youth movement, I don't really know how
28:22
Speaker 1: going half in, half out helps. I think from fans.
28:26
Speaker 1: They just want to see the organization commit to a direction,
28:28
Speaker 1: and I thought in October I thought they were committing
28:31
Speaker 1: to it. Something's happened out of their control. I don't
28:34
Speaker 1: think you can fault the organization for players electing to
28:36
Speaker 1: use their right that they've burned the no trade clauses
28:39
Speaker 1: right like they burn that right. You can't hold it
28:41
Speaker 1: against an organization or a player. But that's why I
28:45
Speaker 1: think Arnato Stain, if he does end up doing so,
28:47
Speaker 1: makes this so much more interesting because now, all of
28:50
Speaker 1: a sudden, they don't really have a clear path anywhere,
28:53
Speaker 1: with the exception of Mason Wynn, who you already knew,
28:56
Speaker 1: and your catchers, who you know are still going to
28:59
Speaker 1: be splitting time with Aymon Herrera and Pedro Pajez. So no,
29:02
Speaker 1: I don't think they've done enough for the youth movement,
29:04
Speaker 1: and I think that's been hampered by the organization and
29:07
Speaker 1: Moe's desire to win, because again, it's the Saint Louis Cardinals.
29:11
Speaker 1: You should be trying to win.
29:13
Speaker 3: Every now and then, though, reality hits home and you
29:16
Speaker 3: just have to kind of take absorb the blows and
29:20
Speaker 3: take it on the chin and all that cliche stuff.
29:23
Speaker 3: But you said something that resonates so much with me
29:27
Speaker 3: because on my videos and even in some of my writing,
29:30
Speaker 3: I use this phrase now more and more, and I
29:34
Speaker 3: can I can speak for myself, but I think I
29:36
Speaker 3: am speaking for a lot of fans where I just
29:39
Speaker 3: want them to get out of the miss I call
29:41
Speaker 3: it the mosaic middle. Just get out of the middle,
29:45
Speaker 3: because they're just in the middle all the time. It's like, well,
29:48
Speaker 3: they go a little bit over here, a little bit
29:50
Speaker 3: over there, we're going to do this. Then they kind
29:52
Speaker 3: of go back to the middle. We're going to do that,
29:54
Speaker 3: and they come back to the middle. I mean, they got
29:57
Speaker 3: to get out of the middle. And see my old review,
30:00
Speaker 3: look at this is like, listen, if you get out
30:04
Speaker 3: of the middle and you're not gonna have a good
30:07
Speaker 3: season in terms of your record in twenty twenty five,
30:11
Speaker 3: but if you truly are getting out of the middle
30:14
Speaker 3: because you're committing to another plan, I am totally good
30:17
Speaker 3: with that. The thing that I don't like is that
30:19
Speaker 3: they're going to stay in the middle, and it seems
30:23
Speaker 3: it seems like that's where it's headed.
30:25
Speaker 2: Listen, we know they're not going to spend.
30:26
Speaker 3: Money along the lines of the Mets and the Dodgers
30:29
Speaker 3: and some other teams.
30:30
Speaker 2: We can mention. We know that.
30:32
Speaker 3: So it's got to be a youth movement. It's got
30:35
Speaker 3: to be a strong pharm system. It's got to be
30:37
Speaker 3: like state of the art player development and that stuff.
30:40
Speaker 3: Time takes time, and it takes money. But it's like, man,
30:44
Speaker 3: you gotta get out of the center lane.
30:46
Speaker 2: You know which way are you gonna go here?
30:48
Speaker 1: Exactly? And that's I think is the biggest frustration for fans.
30:51
Speaker 1: And that's why you've seen such why you've seen the
30:55
Speaker 1: totals that the Apostadium in the second half start to drop.
30:58
Speaker 1: You're just seen in different I Like he's said, disillusioned
31:01
Speaker 1: earlier in the episode, that's exactly what this fan base is,
31:04
Speaker 1: the same Louis Cardinals fan base. They do not need
31:06
Speaker 1: us to say it. They know it. One of the
31:07
Speaker 1: most passionate fan bases in sports. If you put together
31:11
Speaker 1: a compelling club or an idea for them to get behind,
31:14
Speaker 1: they will show up and they will support. And if
31:16
Speaker 1: the Cardinals youth movement goes out there, if they fully
31:19
Speaker 1: committed and they've won seventy five games, very underwhelming season,
31:24
Speaker 1: I still think that the fan base would be like,
31:26
Speaker 1: you know what, this is what they had to do
31:28
Speaker 1: to figure it out. This is a terrible baseball to watch,
31:30
Speaker 1: but we're behind it because they committed to an idea.
31:33
Speaker 1: I don't think the Cardinals have fully committed to their
31:35
Speaker 1: self proclaimed youth movement, reset, retool, whatever word you don't
31:38
Speaker 1: want to use. It's not rebuilding. And I think they're
31:42
Speaker 1: running out of time to figure that out. And that's
31:44
Speaker 1: why we've been talking so much about Arnatto, because it
31:46
Speaker 1: really hinges on all of that, and I don't think
31:48
Speaker 1: that's fair to put on the player. He didn't ask
31:50
Speaker 1: for this, He didn't ask you to put in this decision.
31:52
Speaker 1: He had actually asked to stay. You know, he didn't
31:55
Speaker 1: use his off down twenty one and twenty two. He
31:57
Speaker 1: stuck with the team in twenty twenty three after an
31:59
Speaker 1: all around horrific performance from everyone involved, and twenty twenty
32:03
Speaker 1: four was not much better. But you know, he didn't
32:05
Speaker 1: ever demand the trade to Mo. Even this year, it
32:09
Speaker 1: was Mo coming to Nolan. So I do feel a
32:12
Speaker 1: little bit unfair that the way this is folding out
32:14
Speaker 1: is all about like, oh, what's what's Nolan going to do?
32:16
Speaker 1: I don't think that's fair to him. Again though, it's
32:19
Speaker 1: it's almost remarkable how the Cardinals have all these plans
32:22
Speaker 1: and lately just have not been able to execute them.
32:26
Speaker 2: No, that's right.
32:27
Speaker 3: And by the way, I totally supported Nolan aron Outo's
32:30
Speaker 3: decision to veto the Houston trade. I mean, that's why
32:32
Speaker 3: he has it in his contract. That's why the Cardinals said, yeah,
32:35
Speaker 3: that's in your contract, but we want you, so we'll
32:37
Speaker 3: honor that. Of course, they have any choice but from us.
32:42
Speaker 3: But the thing about it, and this is not a
32:45
Speaker 3: criticism of him or his agent, it really isn't, because
32:48
Speaker 3: it's really hard to read these markets, and they're probably
32:51
Speaker 3: the agent's probably told some things. It gives them an
32:54
Speaker 3: idea that maybe this team's really interested. The only thing
32:57
Speaker 3: about Houston scratch them off the list. They pivoted very
33:01
Speaker 3: quickly to Christian Walker, and that took one team that
33:04
Speaker 3: we know for sure wanted Nolan Aarnado.
33:08
Speaker 2: And so I don't know how many other.
33:10
Speaker 3: Teams, and I know everybody plays a little bit of possum.
33:14
Speaker 3: I don't know how many other teams. I don't know
33:16
Speaker 3: what his market is. How many teams actually have a
33:19
Speaker 3: yearning to trade for him.
33:21
Speaker 2: Oh, they would do it.
33:23
Speaker 3: If the Cardinals are willing to just just eat a
33:27
Speaker 3: huge slice of.
33:28
Speaker 2: His contract, they would do it.
33:30
Speaker 3: If they did well, we're not going to give you
33:32
Speaker 3: anything though, you know, if it's all on their terms,
33:35
Speaker 3: they'll do it. They'll take the gamble on his offense there.
33:38
Speaker 3: But from your reporting has been it doesn't sound like
33:43
Speaker 3: the Cardinals are inclined to take on a huge chunk
33:47
Speaker 3: of that contract. And they still do hope to get
33:51
Speaker 3: I don't know what kind of return, but maybe a
33:53
Speaker 3: prospect or two that may not be acclaim now but
33:57
Speaker 3: could be a lottery ticket, so to speak. Maybe someone
33:59
Speaker 3: that Tim Bloom and robs Ortfolio are aware of.
34:02
Speaker 1: You know, if that player development system turns out the way,
34:06
Speaker 1: it's fascinating, Bernie. I can't believe how fast the time
34:09
Speaker 1: when time does fly when you're having fun. This is great.
34:13
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining. I know that you've
34:15
Speaker 1: been a very popular ask from the show. So here
34:18
Speaker 1: our Cardinal Territory. We try to give to people what
34:20
Speaker 1: they want. Obviously, you can follow us on Twitter. You
34:24
Speaker 1: can like and subscribe to car Territory on YouTube, on Spotify, Apple,
34:29
Speaker 1: and don't forget to give Bernie Show a follow, but
34:31
Speaker 1: she already are all are following. How could you not.
34:34
Speaker 1: He's available on YouTube's and must listen to on KMOX
34:38
Speaker 1: at noon sometimes and just all around if you've been
34:41
Speaker 1: following Cardinals baseball. Bernie doesn't need me to speak for him.
34:44
Speaker 1: He's just fantastic. So thank you again for joining. This
34:48
Speaker 1: has been great. I can't wait to hopefully continue to
34:51
Speaker 1: do this more.
34:52
Speaker 2: It was my pleasure.
34:53
Speaker 3: And I'm going to say what we were talking about
34:55
Speaker 3: before we started, so listen.
34:57
Speaker 2: I what I do every day of the week.
35:00
Speaker 3: Weekdays, I sit in my home office and I turn
35:04
Speaker 3: it into a content farm.
35:05
Speaker 2: I never leave my house.
35:06
Speaker 3: I'm basically trapped in here, right, I'm just kidding, but
35:10
Speaker 3: I do spend all day in my office. My point
35:15
Speaker 3: being is if you're always planning something and plans tend
35:18
Speaker 3: to fall through, I'm your emergency help if you need
35:22
Speaker 3: someone at the last minute, because I'm all right. So
35:25
Speaker 3: you know, if your closer Trevor Rosenthal can't.
35:28
Speaker 2: Make it, you have to go.
35:31
Speaker 3: You have to go down to it like the maybe
35:33
Speaker 3: the weaker part of the bullpen, but at least I'll
35:35
Speaker 3: take the ball.
35:35
Speaker 1: So yeah, you know, he's pitched five or seven. You're
35:37
Speaker 1: not available today, so we got to call him the
35:39
Speaker 1: big guns. You got to call him Bernie.
35:41
Speaker 2: I love him just so.
35:42
Speaker 3: No, it's really a pleasure to be on there with
35:44
Speaker 3: you with a great conversation.
35:46
Speaker 2: I'm fired up. That was wonderful. Thank you, we do.
35:48
Speaker 1: I'm ready to go. If arbitration didn't fire me up?
35:51
Speaker 1: How what a world we are where arbitration deadline is
35:54
Speaker 1: like big news for the month. I can't wait to
35:56
Speaker 1: see how the rest of this January goes win or
35:59
Speaker 1: warm up next weekend? Yay? And baseball, Yes, the same
36:05
Speaker 1: with baseball. Writer's Dinner is coming up. You've heard me
36:08
Speaker 1: talk about it, You're going to hear me talk about
36:09
Speaker 1: it again. Limited tickets still available both for the dinner
36:12
Speaker 1: and our VIP event. Come join the nineteen eighty five
36:15
Speaker 1: team getting recognized for their fortieth anniversary of the NL
36:19
Speaker 1: Championship pennant. So many other guys Brendan Donovan, Ryan Helsley,
36:24
Speaker 1: Mason Winn goes down the list. It should be a
36:27
Speaker 1: wonderful time. And of course our headliner Ozzie Smith getting
36:30
Speaker 1: our Lifetime Achievement awards should be great for Bernie I'm Katie.
36:35
Speaker 1: This is Cardinal Territory. We will see you next week.
36:38
Speaker 1: Thanks for watching and listening.