Latest / Coconut Justice / CJP #57: Eric Jones (CA-4)
Transcript
- Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Hey everybody, as promised, Eric Jones running for California four. Hey, what's good? Eric Jones went to Yale University. Then he moved out to Northern California and helped build a business that helped other businesses grow in healthcare, education, and financial inclusion. Now he lives in Napa and he's running to be the US representative for California's fourth district. This is my conversation with the grassroots candidates for California's fourth district, Eric Jones. Eric Jones: Hey guys. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): It's nice to meet you, man. How are doing? Eric Jones: Every day in California, I wake up and I'm like, you know, this place is great. It rained today, which is a good thing. but so a little bit, you know, if we could have rain and sunshine all the time at the same time, then I'd be happy. I mean, everything going on in the world, it's complicated, but it's a day in California. That's a good thing. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Before we get into it, remember to go to coconutjustice.com to get you some clothes that I think would look good on you. Let's go. Yeah, I was talking to a group of guys. As a matter of fact, I recorded a few days ago with three guys running for office in Connecticut. And they were talking about Connecticut and Connecticut. I was like, you can keep it. I live in California. They're talking about going to no Kings and it was 35 degrees. I said not here. It was close to it was in the mid 70s close to 80 sunshine out. Eric Jones: laughter Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I couldn't do anything but protest. Eric Jones: It's good protesting weather. It does make you soft though. would say when you're when you head back east and you hit some real temperatures. I spent a little bit of time in Minneapolis recently during the pandemic. And I'll tell you man, I forgot what negative 15 feels like. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): ⁓ yeah. Hahaha And Minneapolis, I'm originally from Chicago. So I grew up in it, but Minneapolis is different. They make tunnels that you can walk from building to building. ⁓ But they're like on the second floor in Chicago, especially downtown. We have all these tunnels underground where it makes way more sense. But out there in Minneapolis, it's different. Eric Jones: I am. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): What were you out there for? Were you out there for protests and stuff? Eric Jones: I went with Congressman Ropana to see for myself. This was a few days after Alex Prady was killed, because I had to. I say that as... Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Eric Jones: There's only so much reality you can see through a screen. And particularly in this moment when I think there's a lot of information flying in all these different directions. And I wanted to see the thing that everyone was talking about and whether it was as bad or it's not as bad. ⁓ And it was terrible. And it was shocking and opened my eyes. But it also talking to the Minnesotans who are the hardiest people, know, they're like this like combination of like kind and soft spoken but like super like just adorable, you know, and. And and the thing I heard most often was, hey, we just want more support. Like we hear it online and we're getting good support from different groups across the country, but. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, they're not going anywhere anytime soon. Eric Jones: Where's the support from our political leaders? Like, no one's been here to visit. And that was crazy to me because it was the topic of every conversation in DC and in living rooms and our electeds hadn't gone and like seen the reality on the ground. So to me, that was eye opening that, you As far as we get from reality, the harder it is to actually care about people and do things on behalf of people. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. ⁓ especially something like that where you're making people straight up disappear. And I always, I always try to point out to people when we do this in the Middle East, for example, and we get someone's family member or something, we mobilize them against us. So if we're taking a community that looks like me and we're mistreating them like that. And then sometimes people like me get caught up in the net and you don't care. How are we supposed to tap back into this? Eric Jones: Yeah, you ⁓ Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): It's... It's weird. Eric Jones: Violence of all kinds tends to encourage more violence. and Look, I grew up in a military household with a father who suffered terribly from PTSD, but other other injuries as well as other injuries from war. And. It's funny, because he knows this like he knows that. bringing violence to other nations or bringing violence at home, you create more haters of our own country. Yeah, and you make a good point too, but we're gonna have, because there's so much healing that we're gonna have to do as a country once we resolve this, because you're right, like we've... Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): You begat more violence. Yeah. Eric Jones: We've terrified these communities in our own communities, our communities, and we're fighting to make it stop. And then once it stops, it's not just the ramifications will still be there. And we'll have to deal with those too. ⁓ That's why I just think, you Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Eric Jones: Our politics have shifted in America, but I think there's becoming a new left-right alignment that we just, we want the American dream, we want economic opportunity, we want peace, we don't want war at home. And that's, think younger people particularly, they're fed up. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. I know I'm older than you. And I look at you and the younger generations that are coming up that have leveraged the knowledge that comes with being on social media and the internet and all that stuff. And I love that you guys are taking the reins. I love that you guys are saying, this is not how we wanna operate. We can do things better. And I love that you guys are running for office so you could make meaningful change instead of us, like my generation, we were smacked in the mouth and told to sit down. Right? So. ⁓ So number one, before I forget, thank your father for his service and his sacrifices, both mentally and physically. I tried to explain to people, even though I didn't see war, I was definitely on lockdown when Desert Shield and Desert Storm happened. And even that, you know, that makes you a little touchy. I can only imagine actually being out there and having to deal with probably some of the stuff that your dad had to. And again, even if we want to make the world a better place, soldiering doesn't like that. Doesn't it doesn't help. It just continues to amplify the problem. Eric Jones: Thank you. put it to agree more. That's why we got to get new folks in office who share those same feelings. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Did you grow up in California? Eric Jones: I grew up in a small town in Maine. yeah, cold, small town, of ag. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): main. You might be the only person I've ever met from Maine. Yeah. Eric Jones: Yeah, I get that a bit. It's a big state, geographically, not that many people. it's a, yeah, I mean, it's an interesting place. will say what people don't quite realize is it's kind of like Northern Appalachia. I mean, the mountains keep going, actually. And also from a cultural perspective, there was, ⁓ there are a of like long standing union jobs around shipbuilding. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Eric Jones: ⁓ for a timber and those all went away. The whole state transitioned really to a service economy of tourism where people visit for the five months a year in season. And they're kind of. Refactors their life around serving that vacation community. And then in the winter figures out other things to do. But I say that because you know, that. A version of that has been felt in so many communities across America. And I felt that in my community growing up, right? The jobs and the pathways that people used to have not being there anymore. then during COVID, what was interesting is it then became everyone who had second homes decided they wanted to make those their first homes. And the more people moved there, and kicked out all the locals, and housing prices doubled. So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm. ⁓ my God. Eric Jones: It's like two step process of disenfranchisement where it's like, you took away our jobs and now you're taking away our homes. And on top of that, I believe we need to build housing in this country. It's so important. And on top of that, the Democratic Party in power over there was very, basically ended up being anti-housing and didn't build any housing, which is crazy because Maine's like 90 % trees. There's a lot of places to build housing. Growing up, all my friends and families You built your own homes, basically. So to put a moratorium on that, basically, it's kind of ridiculous. And people are like, wait, so now we can't even afford to live in our own state? ⁓ It's really wild. ⁓ And look, different versions of that have been felt all across America over the past several decades. ⁓ And both parties Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Eric Jones: Well, I'll speak to my own party. I think the Democratic Party did a poor job of meeting people where they are and just listening and asking questions and understanding like, hey, like these communities are different. Like my way of like the way I saw myself and my family and my it's all changed. And what I see for my future, for the future of my kids is all changed. And No one's recognizing that. And I think that not talking to people where they, like not actually meeting working class and young people where they are in this country has been a big failure of our party. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, that goes for. both parties. feel comfortable ⁓ chastising both parties. ⁓ I've voted for both parties in the past. I'm not, you know, I'm politically ambiguous because I want what's best for the country. And I know sometimes it's a mix. Eric Jones: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): but I think both parties have been basically hijacked by people who write big checks. I found out talking to a lot of you guys. if you, Eric Jones, you guys, he's a grassroots candidate. He's a up and comer, all this stuff. Right. So, ⁓ when I talk to the grassroots candidates, I get all of the frustrations and all of the, feelings about the establishment and how hard it is, even though you fly the Democratic banner or the Democrat banner, you still if you don't have that name recognition, if you don't have the big checks, if you don't have all this stuff going for you, it's difficult. ⁓ So, yeah, both parties are ruining it because of because of. these checks that get in the way of their vision. Eric Jones: It's amazing how often the old adage, you follow the money can be reused. It's always true. It never fails. And again, to your point, you know, people think about incumbency, right? And the biggest thing they think about is, name ID. Incumbents got name ID. But it's not just that. It's millions of dollars of guaranteed campaign financing through Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. and hookups and hookups to like phone banks and hookups to Eric Jones: ⁓ And that's all the resource activation, all the mobilization. But basically, if you want to be a party aligned politician and take in all that corporate PAC money and all that special interest money, you can take it. They'll give it to you. And then you've got a name advantage. You've got money advantage. And the critical thing is you're not talking to real people to raise that money. You're talking to the lobbyist. Right. So you're even Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Mm-hmm. Eric Jones: you're not even getting the like, you're not even doing the job of talking to your constituents or raising money from your constituents. Your campaign is being funded by special interest. And then you get utilized to your point, the apparatus, right? The endorsements, the mobilization. So you're kind of fighting as an outsider, as an anti-establishment candidate, you're fighting those three things. And I think historically that lift has been really, really hard, almost impossible. But in this moment, where everyone wants change and everyone recognizes that the establishment of both parties has not delivered and that money and politics and the checks that you're talking about have worn everything, that people are now more open-minded and realize that, wait, maybe the endorsements and the money and the name, maybe that's all part of the problem. And actually we should be looking at newer candidates and doing honestly what the work you're doing. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I appreciate that. Because yeah, we need to get the word out. You know, I've I talked to I talked to literally everyone from homeless people to MAGA to everybody. I don't care. ⁓ But everyone is very consistent in something needs to change. What we're doing is wrong. And and all the politicians are on the take. So. I love that I get to talk to you guys and then I get to go to that homeless person. I get to go to that MAGA member and say, there is a different way to do it. You just have to get your lips off his ass so he can get to work. Eric Jones: You could, you nailed it. You nailed it out. And so I've been doing a lot of door knocking, which is I a lost art. My opponent is doing, my opponent is an incumbent Democrat who is, well, I have many opponents. In our race, are six Republicans, an NPP, an incumbent Democrat, and a non- Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): What's NPP stand for? Eric Jones: non-party preference, believe. So basically, I didn't choose. Independent, I guess. But they're conservative leaning. So there are seven kind of Republicans, me as the outsider Democrat, and then the incumbent. he's been in office for, he's been in politics for over 50 years. He's been in this seat for almost 30. And yeah, he's not knocking doors, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): So, okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay, that makes sense. Eric Jones: He's not making phone calls to real people to do grassroots fundraising. He's not mobilizing that way or organizing that way. And I think when you stop doing that, you miss the real message. Like when you knock on a door and someone either through their little keyhole or, or right, brain camera, they make a determination, right? They're like looking at you, their dog's barking. They're like, how am I, what am I wearing? Like what, are the lights on? Like am I carrying a cup of coffee? Like what's going on? Like what was I watching? Is it even still on? Like all right, they like, have to like pause their world and then choose to go into it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. to do something as wonderful as talking politics. Eric Jones: Right, exactly. They're so, they're so jacked. Correct, right? Yeah, Watch it, Emma Legasse here. I was throwing that. But then when you talk to them, because of that context, they're so open. And you get the real, the real. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I was just watching Wheel of Fortune. What are you doing? Mmm. Eric Jones: the depth of what they're feeling. And the thing is, they're talking about healthcare. They're talking about, why is my local school closing? I have like a three year old and I'm thinking about where they're gonna go to school when they're five. And because I have childcare and I can't get childcare, but now the school down the block is closing, the school closures. They're talking about how have my utility rates gone up 100 % in the past four or five years? Like what's going on, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): let's jump back to real quick. I'm sorry for cutting you off going back to the school thing. Even if the days close at school, they're going to say, ⁓ you can send them to that school. Yeah, but I don't want my kid to be in a classroom with 30 other kids. The quality of education is going to be messed up. Eric Jones: Yeah. No. Yeah. to it. and potentially another like 30 minutes away, right? When you get into these, when you get into these realms. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. And gas is like a hundred dollars a tank. Eric Jones: And there's no button, there's no button, right? mean, totally, right? And to me, it's a massive problem in California. And what frustrates me is no one's talking about it, but we all know it's gonna happen because we know how many eighth graders there's gonna be because we know how many young kids there are today. So we can look a decade forward and look at enrollment. ⁓ Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, because last year we had this many seventh graders. ⁓ Eric Jones: One of the we actually predict pretty well, yeah, people will move into the state and move out, but like, you got a pretty good sense. And if you look at it, based on based on state models, we're gonna have to shut like 25 % of the schools. And, and that's, that's, that's not a good thing. Like it may be a necessary thing, but it's not a good thing. And how do we interrupt that process and stop that so that schools can stay open, that kids can stay in their communities? Because what I've seen is we need kids particularly in elementary and younger grades, they need to be safe. They need to learn to read. And they need be in the classroom. And you'll go into school every day, developing the habit as a young person that school is a permanent part of your life. It's not a choice, right? And it's hard because often these kids have to work as well. So if you're these schools farther and farther from families, and now you're getting pressure, maybe it's a farm worker family, right? Now you're getting pressure from the family like, you're really going to travel up the Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Eric Jones: 45 minutes to get to school, right? Like it really is this. And ⁓ I wish it was talked about more, because it's... It's really sad. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And let's talk about a little more because what happens is they're cutting funding to schools, they're closing down schools, the education, quality of education goes down and then you're sending us out into the workforce to compete against the best of the best of the world and all this other stuff, right? But yet... you didn't prepare United States children to be competitive in this world. And then you're going to have a dumb dumb like Elon Musk who comes up and says, you're dumb and you're lazy. Eric Jones: You're smiling because you're funny. you're in your... Unfortunately, humor is often when you highlight the thing that everyone knows, but you say it in a surprising way, right? It's like, you nail reality. You're oh yeah, he's right. But humor softens it. Look, we... And I just want, think if we're not centering the, if we're not having the conversation, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Hahaha Yeah. Yeah, it's a hard pill to swallow. Eric Jones: we're not gonna fix the problems. If we still have our head in the sand pretending everything's okay, we're not even gonna fix the problems. And to me, again, like the normal political posture right now across both parties is like, you know, stay out of trouble, don't do much, don't try to fix things. And frankly, do as much ⁓ like animate, like do as much fighting against the other side that creates so much animosity that that's our focus. And our focus should be on keeping kids in school and keeping the schools open. Because the reality is, I talk so much about the American dream because I feel like I've lived it. I was a welfare kid, teenage mom, disabled veteran father, went to college, a full scholarship, first-generation college graduate. I had all those things. Yeah, thanks, man. It's funny. I'm proud of that because, look, and I will say, the story I just told you is a, I'm a white guy. Surprise. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Nice, congratulations. Of course you should be. Eric Jones: ⁓ Now, I say that because what's different about my story is I did have to do those things. I did have to work hard. I did have to struggle. I did have to get myself, you know, into a good position academically to really, you know, succeed. I had my mom. I had my community. had a church. I had people who helped. I did have to take care of my dad. That was like a big, that was hard. ⁓ But I know that because once I got to college and things started working for me, then Then I had all the benefits of looking like I am and being a big, you know, I'm 6'3", I'm like a... And a lot of people who have my story, who are not white, and they carry... They carry those challenges for their entire life. Like even after they go to college, like they're still fighting against a perception or they're still fighting to get access to the things they need to succeed in their careers or for their families. And I was lucky that once I made that step, now I'm like playing in an open field. And I say that to people because I wanna make sure people know that I appreciate that, that like it's a reality, that I get this benefit that other people don't have. I get this privilege. ⁓ But I care so much about this because I don't know how you could have the American dream if you don't have great public education in America. That's the whole, it is. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Right. Eric Jones: It's the pillar. It's the fundamental pillar. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Eric Jones: What I see is a world where kids who grew up like me all across the country are having less and less opportunity to do what I did and go to college, build a business, be an entrepreneur, and all of them now serve my country. And the fact that, again, we're not talking about it every day. is I think the issue. I want to focus on how do we create a better future for kids in our country and how do we do that? We have to focus on education, health care. We have to focus on these core kind of blocks of the American dream, right? Like how do get people housing? How do we build more housing? Like so basic when I say it. ⁓ But education to your point is the foundation. And then it's real complicated because we got so much stuff on the horizon that's going to create a whole new world. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Eric Jones: And we better have an education system which can adapt to that so that kids are ready, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I've been saying this. Well, before we started recording, told you I'm from Chicago, went down to LA, came up here, blah, blah, blah. I was working in Silicon Valley and then I got laid off. And then, you know, you go through your little what the hell just happened. portion of the the of the the life of the timeline started doing research. And then there was a lot of a lot of people a lot of Americans that were talking about this H1B visa thing and how we don't compare with H1B visa people because they're smarter than us. But then we have a president that is taking money out of education and we're closing schools and doing all this stuff. So how Can we possibly expect our kids who are with shit schools, not all of them are shitty, I understand, but the education system is challenged and then you hit us with H-1B visas and you hit us with all these excuses as to why we're not going to invest in our people. Why is it so difficult to tell the old guard that this is a dumb way of doing things. Eric Jones: ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Why is it so hard? Sorry, I'm struggling because I'm gonna say the same thing we said before. It really is. It's again, it's follow the money, right? Like corporations, the largest corporations in America would rather Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Eric Jones: import labor, right, and make more profit, and then pass it to shareholders, then, or put it in the CO compensation package more likely, right, then they would actually create an educated and vibrant workforce. And this is the sort of, the unbundling is like, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): keep their money. Eric Jones: Corporations do not think about communities. They think about profit. to expect anything else of them is unrealistic. That is how they are set up. That is what the boards do. Yes, they have to follow the law and they have governance and regulatory frameworks. By the way, the regulation itself is often the thing that's bad for people because it keeps competition and stops small businesses from growing and thriving, right? But I say that because we have this weird expectation that they're gonna do good, but they're not, they're not. Like we have to constrain them. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): You Eric Jones: We have to invest in education so that the corporations don't take advantage of our citizens. We can't rely on the corporations to do the right thing for our communities. And I tell people all the time, like, you know. When you're corporation and you can make a choice between a computer and a person, right? You can invest in the computer to do the thing or the person to do the thing. I always pick the person because the person has a story. The person has a family. The person could become Mozart. The person could become, they could have a kid who could cure all these cancers. There's just, and that person becomes someone, a figure in their community, in their home, in their family, and they contribute. A computer's a computer. But today we actually do a lot to make it hard to help the person and easier to buy the computer. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Eric Jones: We can go to payroll taxes and how we do like all the different requirements for onboarding employees in California. All I'm saying is all back to the same idea, which is that corporations are focused on corporate profit. And therefore we need a government which balances that. That's why we have democracy. Democracy is a balance against capitalism. And what we have now is our democracy has been bought by the corporations. So they're not looking out for us, the communities. So now you just have an entire system designed to benefit corporations, which means you have a system designed to produce profit, not to think about people. And it's all gotten worse since Citizens United was decided, was ruled. It's like gotten exponentially worse. It was developing for a few decades. It wasn't an issue in the 60s or 70s, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): you Eric Jones: But it became an issue and then it sort of skyrocketed with Citizens United. And I can't say this enough, like all these problems come back to when you see a problem that government hasn't fixed or isn't trying to fix, follow the money, and there's probably a reason why that's happening or something is or isn't happening, right? And it's probably because some self-interest group has accumulated too much power and they've said no and That's the core. That we have to address that first. And if we do that, think actually Americans, can kind of, I trust Americans. I trust us to figure it out when the system is uncorrupted. Like give us a chance, right? To kind of give us a chance, but we need a clean, we need a playing field that's fair and as designed, not how it is today. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I agree. I'm sorry, sometimes I need to like, let the information go in and like find its file. ⁓ Eric Jones: ⁓ no, dude. I am. Have you ever read the book Moonwalking with Einstein? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Moonwalking with Einstein. No. Eric Jones: This will be a nice shout out for folks. Excuse me if I don't summarize it or describe it perfectly, but this reporter. got into this kind of interesting community of people who had extremely good memories, like could memorize like the order of the decks of cards, right? Like, and, or X-9 numbers of pi or just like incredible things, right? And he started, and what he learned that there's techniques and it's funny you say filing because actually that's one of the techniques to create an image of an actual infrastructure in your head, which could be a house. And you could go into a room, filing cabinet and put a memory there. And that's how they memorize so many things. They create an actual physical image in their brain and store things. And he ended up being, after a couple of years, I think he was one of the top performers in these challenges. But the things you can remember are incredible. anyway, it gave me like, it's cool to read the books, but I'm like, human brain, know? Human brain, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. I just wrote it down. I talking to you guys ⁓ I think I'm batting a thousand. Like all of you guys are so smart. I haven't yet bumped into a person that I'm like, ⁓ boy, this is going to be wild. But I keep getting these recommendations for these books. I'm halfway flirting with starting a book club and just whenever I talk to you guys, put that book on the list and then go through the list. Eric Jones: I like that. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I love talking to smart people. I love talking to smart people. Eric Jones: Don't don't don't don't Smartest person I know is my mother. ⁓ So, ⁓ did a bunch of everything to make it work, wait your saying, cetera. And then later actually went back and got her, well went for the first time and got her associate's degree to be a nurse. So she, ⁓ and she feels, she really believes that she did upon this planet by God to take care of people, my father included. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Shout out mom. What's mom do? She saw your tits. Eric Jones: but she's a, she's an incredible, incredible, incredible, incredible person. It's funny to say that, excuse me, but I'm I'm like honored to be, you know, ⁓ to be part of like my mom's lineage, just given how much she's, given who she is. I'm proud of her. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and I'm assuming she's very supportive of you and everything that you've done. Eric Jones: ⁓ yeah, I don't think she really, ⁓ She understands what I'm doing now. ⁓ Before I was ⁓ working in healthcare and creating different types of healthcare companies and doing a bunch of nonprofit work. And I think she understood that less, but ⁓ now I've actually moved her out here for the campaign. So she's both ⁓ doing a great job being a grandma, because my wife and I have a four year old and a one year old. ⁓ Thanks, man. ⁓ So she's like, her name is Jan. She goes by Grandma Jama. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): ⁓ congratulations. Eric Jones: Her grandma, grandma, grandma. And our son Owen just adores her. so that's been awesome. And also I don't think she ever thought she'd be able to live in a place. I live in Napa. It's really, I'm really fortunate. And it's awesome. And I don't think she ever thought that she would live in a place like this. So it's been really cool. My brother moved out here as well. He lived in Davis. He was in the Navy. My wife's family is actually from here. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That was beautiful. Eric Jones: her grandma went to Davis, brought her horse to college. Back when you could do that. ⁓ Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Hey, I could take you down. I can take you down to ⁓ Narco that's down by Riverside down. They it's what is it? The cowboy. Cowboy capital of the United States or house or horse horse capital, whatever. I'd be taking my nieces and nephew to school and there's like a family of horses and they're. Eric Jones: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): taking their kids to school on the horse. Eric Jones: That's cool. mean, yeah, we've got we forget there's like, yeah, we've got got some real Cowboys left. Yeah, yeah, we were talking about you said, and tell him, tell him. You grandma, grandma, grandma. I like that. I'll say like, look, like, you know, my wife and I both my wife's an architect. We're like two working parents. really in it. We cannot do this without my mom. So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): We do. Anyway, shout out Gamma, Gamma, Genma, shout out Gamma, Genma. Eric Jones: Shout out to moms everywhere, shout out to grandmas everywhere. But also to your point, people are damn smart. And that's another thing that the door knocking has revealed. There's a lot of awareness that I... Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): for real. Eric Jones: Like I'm very impressed. And I don't mean that in a way, you know, cause we hear a lot, Oh, like everyone just watches Fox news these days. Like no one reads like, know, you hear like, if you took that in, you'd be like, Oh my God, every person must just be like a rattle, at all brained. Like they can't, you know, see which way is left or right. But no people, people, people, people are, people are with it and they have consumed and they are in their, in their people's perspectives are. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): You Eric Jones: really sharp today. I think that's important. They know this moment is important and they know that things aren't right. ⁓ So, anyway, point being that like, I just love talking to people, And intelligences are all different types of things. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah, I agree. And even the ones that listen to ⁓ Fox News and stuff like that, ⁓ there's a lot of times they'll be, you know. maybe they forget that I'm a little toasty, you know, and they start sharing with me some of the things that they've watched on the news and stuff. And when I, when I remind them that I am toasted and that I have been stopped by cops, I have been pulled out of the car, I have been pulled over for making the left into the wrong neighborhood, all those things. Generally speaking, up here, they are They accept that information and they process it. And then they, for the most part, they're just like, that sucks. And then they, you know, they try to remember me when they're watching the news and they're listening to the dumb shit. Eric Jones: And again, the dumb shit is both sides, right? Or I don't wanna say sides, dumb shit's everywhere, right? There's also, and what you just said. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, right. Eric Jones: is ⁓ so powerful because you've permanently changed their points of view. that's also, you know, that's like good old fashioned political persuasion. know it's you and it's a very personal story, but ⁓ when we show real people in real situations who live the realities of our politics and people I find have a ton of compassion. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Eric Jones: But you kind of have to make it real. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Eric Jones: I do a lot of, I talk a lot about the healthcare cuts. And we talk about them, we talk about them, but then you sort of, characterize the situation for someone. And you make it real. And ⁓ to your point, you know. I mean we can have ice again. mean same situation when you when you just show people a little bit of humanity they they really I find they pick it up and they and they really listen Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. And that's why people in Florida think we're a bunch of pussies because we do take that information and we do say, you know, we can do this better. You know, not understand it. Florida, don't get it twisted. We do have some hillbillies with guns out here, boy. You better watch out. Eric Jones: Yeah. We're gonna go a little Florida. Florida. Florida. Get a little feedback on Florida. Yeah. No, no, There's good people everywhere, Florida does have a... Florida produces some wild ones. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I agree. Yeah, you said that you were building ⁓ healthcare companies, healthcare related companies. Florida's answer is Rick Scott. Eric Jones: Yeah. Yeah. No, I know. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And if you don't know you guys, Rick Scott got busted. He's a senator, I think now. He got busted for the largest healthcare scam in United States history. And he's still serving in Congress. That's crazy to me. Eric Jones: Yeah, I mean. What do you have to do to lose your seat these days, right? I mean, George Santos out, right? Okay, so that's one example, but look at all, there's, yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): the brown kid, but that's just it. Like he's a brown kid. He got kicked out because he's weird. And he's a liar and all that stuff. I know that it's way more than that. Eric Jones: You're so. No, but you're right. If he was... You're right! You're right! You're right! But yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): The other one was the little Cuban dude or was he Puerto Rican with all the gold bars? I'm like, what are you doing? You're Puerto Rican. You can turn that into a necklace. You'll be fine. Eric Jones: Yeah, exactly. We, yeah, the bar for, you know, what is, what gets you, you know, what gets you off the boat, off the Titanic, off the, I guess, Titanic, it's a bad metaphor, I guess, because it's sinking. But yeah, I, because of my family history and my father, he was, he had a 90s veteran in pain every time he went to a doctor. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Hahaha Eric Jones: He got prescribed more pills and was Vicodin, Oxy, right? So that journey, I lived that journey with him and eventually we got into a place in Florida, far enough, at the Mayo Clinic. We moved him down there. My brother was stationed there in the Navy and finally got good care and lay in life, got off a bunch of stuff and it revealed to me who my father was. Like I met him as a, basically as a 20 year old and a lot of my growing up was taking care of him. I say all that because I've seen a lot of our healthcare system in different ways ⁓ and I've wanted to help. So a lot of the work I've done is around mental health, women's health, and getting more care into rural areas because not to bring up the school thing again, but we have a similar issue with hospitals in rural parts of the country. And we have aging communities that still need healthcare. And. I'm one of the big ideas that I'm running on is Medicare expansion and bringing healthcare into people's homes. We now have the technology to do it. It's cheaper. It's better because people can stay in their communities. They get a lot more social interaction and you want to keep people out of these very expensive hospitalized environments and sort of kind of unbundle all the different stuff that happens in hospital. And This has all been tested and shows actually if you give people nursing care in their home starting age 65 and you graduate it, know, full time day one, but you have that option that you actually, you know, save money all in, spent long term because you're spending less money in hospital and they're very expensive. And again, all of the happiness factors are huge. So a lot of the work I did was around kind of readapting that care model to get people taken care of in home and also different prophylactic interventions around dental care, hearing and vision. Because if you talk about quality of life, those three things are so important. And most people don't know this, I think, unless you're on Medicare. But Medicare doesn't cover those things. So if you're going blind from cataracts, which is a super simple surgery. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Okay. Eric Jones: and you're on Medicare, doesn't pay for it. If you can't afford it, you will just go blind. Hearing aids, Medicare doesn't cover hearing aids. And now we're looking at all the links between hearing loss and early onset dementia and Parkinson's. giving someone a hearing aid can change their life. And they're so expensive now. They're thousands and thousands of dollars, right? Dental care. They've now shown all the links between dental care and heart disease, but also people need to eat and teeth, right? And so I focus a lot on these areas of healthcare where you can actually intervene and give people more and make them happier and healthier. And you can save money because you don't go blind or get heart disease or get early onset dementia, right? And that to me is a lot of the framing of healthcare in this country is how do we actually do more? such that we can be healthier long-term and actually save money. And there are some really interesting ways that you can, I think those specific areas are areas where I've found like super, super high value. ⁓ And particularly again, in rural communities where they just don't have these, lot of these things, have a lot of access. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Yeah. I've been watching The Pit. If you haven't watched that show, it's... Yeah. Eric Jones: Hmm. So, what's your life? I'm one of those annoying guys who like, I read a book and also watch half the show, right? And I'm like four episodes in, like, hey, babe, like what's going on? She's like, come on, man, like can she? I'm like, yeah, but I'm kind of like. And I. Yeah, exactly. You know what's funny? I realize. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. I read a book, I try to be smart. ⁓ Eric Jones: Yeah, it's ADHD. Like I'm doing two things at once and that is like my captivated, that's like my normal mode. Like talking to people is great because they're doing one thing. It's amazing. It really calms me down actually. It's great. ⁓ But I get with her and she's watching The Pit. Anyway, great show. Seemingly I watched half of it. I no idea what's going on. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah. The other half is really good too. ⁓ one of the, this is not any kind of, well, it can't, well, no, it's not any kind of spoiler alert. They're leveraging AI to help run the ER room. And since, you know, since, since that's the, the elephant in the room. ⁓ and, and I, it seems to be somewhat divisive because you have one part of our citizens that are excited about it, but then you have the other part that are very afraid of it. Do you have any exposure to, well, you live up here and You know, we kind of have technology people floating around everywhere. Have you been exposed to AI folks? Have you been, have you seen any data centers going in? Why the trepidation and why? Why, in your eyes, why are people nervous? then if you are for leveraging AI, why should people relax when it comes to AI? Eric Jones: Yeah. Let me start by saying that. AI is a reality. It's here. We have to regulate it. We have to tax it. And we have to work with it. And we also have to win, right? Because other countries are developing technology at significant pace. But the first two things I said about regulation and safety are so critical. And we can't be scared. But I think the reason people are scared is because we haven't given people We haven't described to people pathways of how this could play out. We haven't described to people the regulatory frameworks that we're going to use. Look, we have an SEC that monitors financial markets. We have an FEC, which monitors political markets. We have regulatory bodies. We should have a regulatory body akin just like those two for AI, 100%. We need the watchdogs. We need the police officers in this new world. We need to tax AI today. And here's how we should do it. We have a case study of Amazon, right? Amazon became a trillion dollar company never paid any tax because they never made a paper profit. used all the loophole. ⁓ Et cetera, yeah, exactly. with AI today, there's so much money flowing in, right? And it goes into one of two areas. There's the training, which is the brain. That's the like. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, too big to fail and all. Eric Jones: And each, you know, that's the model. And then there's inference. And inference is the product. So when you ask Claude or Chad GBT a question, that's an inference workload. When they're building the thing behind the scenes separately, that's a training workload. I believe we should tax inference. Like we should actually have a tax based on some fundamental law, like energy production. You can actually tax energy loss or energy cost. You could tax environmental impact, you could tax a unit of work. But the point is, you have to start taxing this and then we got to take that money. And then we got to create job creation pathways for kids today. And retraining for people in their early 20s, who frankly are graduating with degrees that may not be, that may not be useful, they are intelligent, smart, motivated young people. We got to help, right? Because the reality is America has a ton of job creation opportunities. Think about the jobs we need in healthcare. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): We can rip that bandaid off. Eric Jones: Right? Think about jobs we need in renewable energy. Like we have to onshore all of our farm manufacturing because we can't be in a situation like COVID where we can't produce our own vaccines. That can't be a thing. So that's another huge job creation category. What about the five million homes that we have to build a year? Right? All our infrastructure. There's so education. There's so many opportunities for jobs that AI will not touch. And but we need to actively utilize the resources that are going in there and redeploy them. And then The last thing, and that will give people comfort that, yeah, you're right. There's going to be job loss. There will be. And here's what we're going to do. And here's how we're going to adapt to that new reality. And the third thing is the data center itself, Going into your community, creating an environmental impact, all these things. the biggest one, utilizing energy resources and raising rates on actual consumers like us. And that, to me, is ridiculous. Like you're basically, it's basically more corporate profit, profiteering and stealing directly from consumers to corporations. So what I'm saying is that every new data center build has to have its own energy production and have its own water resourcing. That's all internalized. It's not constantly pulling, pulling water. It's all internalized. And there are several data center set data center operators and, and builders that are already doing this. And across the country, you have mixed kind of situations. Sometimes they're attached to the grid. Sometimes they're independently generated. It should all be independently generated with the cleanest form of available energy, full stop. It's not going to impact consumers. It shouldn't impact the environment ⁓ because they are going to get built. And ⁓ that's just inevitability. Now we got to make the impact to communities as minimal as possible. They shouldn't be going into communities except for places where they can create jobs. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Eric Jones: Right? I mean, there are states right now that are asking for data center investment because they create jobs and they're going to be good jobs. They're going to be high, really like high skilled technical jobs. Right? ⁓ So there is a, there is some good with the bad. So I think kind of the prongs are like, have to make AI safe. We have to think about how we tax it and create job creation pathways and the actual data centers themselves. have to make sure they're not impacting communities. not impacting energy production, actually helping with energy production by creating a generation. To me, those are the three things. If we explain that to people, we're gonna make it safe. We have to do it, but we're gonna make it safe. We did this with nuclear energy, but we've done this before. We're gonna make it safe. And we're gonna take advantage of it to make sure we create jobs and we're gonna limit the impact, we're gonna have no impact on your community. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Eric Jones: Like you're not going to see one of these things out of your window. Like you can do those three things. I think people will get on board because people get on board with technology once they understand it. I'm also for a social media. Look at everything, right? Like we have everything, right? And I don't know if our phones are good for us or not, but we've adapted. And separately from all this, I think technology usage right now is a big question. And I'm very strongly for a ban on Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Look at our phones. Yeah. Eric Jones: social media for kids under 16. And I think that we have to consider how AI is gonna be used in classrooms, both by teachers and kids. I don't have all the answers, but we have to start talking about it. ⁓ Those three things to me are the concerns and how those concerns can be met if we're talking about it appropriately. And we need people in Congress who actually understand what this is. Like, I wonder how many of us, like, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): say it again for the people in the back. Eric Jones: How many our congressional today, if you showed them a data center in an airport, I don't know if they could tell the difference. I mean, I'm joking, but one doesn't. seriously, do they know what a GPU is? Can they conceptualize what an LLM model, what it can do, and what it can't do? This is knowable stuff. This isn't voodoo. But I think to them, it's almost as voodoo science, because they're so far removed from understanding it and the comprehension of it. ⁓ Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Eric Jones: So, and we just get new people in there, like they'll be much better equipped to solve these problems. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Is there a mismatch between what these technology companies are saying is possible compared to what their AIs can actually do or can actually do for people? Eric Jones: So yes, and this is now me speaking as someone who understands enough technology and then I'm communicating it the way I kind of see it in my own brain. So I may not be, I may not be correct to be clear. I'm one man's opinion. ⁓ I think it is to their benefit to oversell their capability because like any company, right? They're trying to get, bring in more investors and grow more and produce more. they're like, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Eric Jones: the biggest evangelists are gonna be coming from the corporations themselves and probably the loftiest goals. ⁓ AI is going to do an incredible, if there's a job that is process automation, that's a service, which is a white collar process automation job, even if the process is really damn complicated, AI can do it, right? And that's a lot of admin. That's a lot of different, I don't know if go through every category that'll be impacted, but if you think about entry level engineering, which is engineering computer science, right? Where you're seeing so much of it today, that is really, really complex process automation, right? And now, like these different AI agents can operate functionally as junior software coders and do the work of real people. But there's a limit to that. with the current architecture and the current framing of what these technologies are. They don't have intent. And this is something I tell people to calm them down. I woke up this morning, had a couple meetings, then we had this awesome conversation. I had a coffee. I went through my email a couple of times. I can't open my email and decide what to do. Right. You reached out to me to have a conversation. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Eric Jones: Can AI do that? AI even think to do that? So I say that because when you frame it that way, you realize it's actually quite limited. And what I hope it does in lot of jobs is it sort of takes the process part away so that the actual human element can be really highlighted, like being a primary care doctor. There's no way AI can do the job of a primary care doc because the reality is the doctor's biggest role is to make you care about your own health. That's your job is, right? And AI is not going to be able to do that. But a human could. And if you can allow the doctor to have all the best process automation and have that doctor, I'm talking about primary care docs, have them focus on the patient and helping that patient be healthy themselves, right? Whether, and that to me is where this becomes really powerful. And you think about other, a ton of other fields, right? Like we used to, have abacuses and then we had excel you know so it's not too far from that reality it it can't it can't think on its own it needs to be guided Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah Yeah, I can give you a really good example. ⁓ I've started, ⁓ well, I told you earlier, I make films. have travel films and blah, blah, blah, blah, I do special effects and motion graphics and stuff like that to bring home the point or whatever, whatever. I used to have to open up After Effects and spend three weeks in it. I'd have to open up 3D Studio Max and spend four weeks in it just to do the thing. And I'm a writer. So now I'm learning how to describe everything. And then I'm able to with the with the skills that I have in 3D and motion and stuff like that, I can really leverage this stuff. because I really, really want to get back to drawing with charcoal and newsprint. I want to get back to doing that. You know, so again, I'd like to point this out. There was a bunch of illustrators that used to draw pictures for newspapers and magazines and then the camera came out. And again, Disney used to do hand drawn animation and then Pixar came out. I understand that there are environmental things. I'm a bit of an environmentalist. I love my trees. You'll catch me hugging them. I can see the benefit of it. I can see why people are trepidatious. Especially when you're talking about tracking people and the phones and they know who's who and the what's what's and all this other stuff. That's the part that gets me nervous. That's the... Eric Jones: That was a problem before AI. That's a problem before AI. That was a problem before AI, and AI makes it really scary. I want to, like what you just said about surveillance and even the Patriot Act and how we think about surveilling our own citizens. That's a whole conversation that we should, voters should care about this because it's happening and making it worse. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do we have time to talk about that? Or is it? Eric Jones: ⁓ I have a chat with someone. Let me give me one sec here. ⁓ Okay, cool. We just move back to noon. Yeah, let's so to finish that thread, though. You're right. I mean, so my wife I mentioned is an architect. nothing will ever replace hand drawing for her for the creative process of getting to the right. But then there's a point where you need to make a client presentation and show my all the different ways that something can be seen before it's actually built. And a lot of that is just like hit button, go, right? But it takes, it used to take so much time, right? And that cannot be sped up. And to her, again, if she can spend more time talking to clients and more time drawing, that's amazing actually, because she'll be a better architect understanding the client needs and she'll be a better architect creatively if she's able to use all the tooling but can get to the kind of the mode that is most creatively. ⁓ valuable to her, right? ⁓ So now we can go through a thousand categories, right? Like there's so many different things here. Like I'm a hopeful guy and, and. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Yeah, I used to. Yeah. Eric Jones: I'm going to do everything in my power and get a bunch of people who are like-minded to do the same to make sure this is safe, to make sure that there's benefit from it, and to make sure that we Americans come out of their side and they're proud of what we've done. And this can be a unifying moment for our country. It has to be because we're so divided, but it's a big thing. And we better have people who are ready to talk about and take on and understand this really, really, really big thing. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I think the understanding of it would be monumental. because I'm sorry if you are in your 70s and 80s and you back when VCRs used to blink 12 and you used to have to get your kid to fix that and you're still in Congress. Like it might be time. It might be time and I hate I hate because you know, I'm getting older. I'm I just turned 54 last weekend. So Eric Jones: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): ⁓ I understand. not having the energy to keep up with these folks. And what folks, the older folks in Congress don't understand is the AI folks, I used to work with those guys. They don't sleep. They don't sleep. They have their Monday morning meeting and you work, work, work, work, work. I've been there. So when you're only working 147 days last year, Eric Jones: I know. ⁓ Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Congress. I don't know if it I don't know if you have what it takes to like what you were saying democracy is that balance between capitalism and and and doing what's good for the people and if you're not tapped in the way those guys are tapped in they're gonna run you over. Eric Jones: It's even worse because what I've learned is that they're not even really ever asked to understand. It's the lobbyists who understand, but the lobbyists work for the corporations. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And they know how to sugar coat everything to make it sound so good. Eric Jones: Exactly. And then they deliver it. They literally deliver the legislation, right? Which is crazy to me to think about like, wait. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): There's a whole other group that's not part of the government who are writing these things, aka Project 2025. Great example. Eric Jones: that we don't vote for, we don't elect. Correct, we don't, correct, we don't. We don't, we don't like them exact. And it's like, wow, like, okay. How is that okay? Why should a lobbyist who pays for your vacations, who buys you dinner, who funds your campaigns, be able to functionally do your job on your behalf? I mean, that's what they're doing. Like they're being like, hey, sit this one out, big guy. Like we're gonna, we're gonna take this. We're gonna take this, right? And you can come back to us when we need your vote. We'll bring you back when we need your vote, right? And it's also why rejecting PAC money is so important because of that. Now you're going to have to read it. You're going to have to read the bill. Maybe have some input. You don't have a lobby. You don't know what to do. ⁓ It's correct. It's so funny when you often you'll hear the excuse. I there's like a second vote that comes back to the floor. ⁓ I didn't read it the first time. It's like, ⁓ that's like, OK. Really? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Didn't they just, didn't they admit that we don't read bills that are 500 pages long? Then why are you signing it? Eric Jones: And for every person who says it, there's almost like 20 people who didn't say it, right? Like, that's the thing. It's like, oh, you said the quiet thing out loud. Oh, God. Yeah, we know. Well, we knew. Now we know. We know that you know, and you're little ashamed of it. But yeah, this is whole problem. We need to fix things. We need to change things. We need to create things. We need to build things. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, Eric Jones: We don't need parties pointed fingers and BS, you know, just, I mean, not to bring up my opponent, but you know, he's in the past 15 years, he's introduced hundreds of bills, hundreds, hundreds. And he talks about all the things he's introduced. He's passed seven. And they're all, this 15 years, all ceremonial renaming of post offices and courthouses. And I'm like, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I am so tired of hearing that. I am so tired of hearing that. Eric Jones: I almost prefer you just like focused and like I'm the post office guy. I'm gonna like nail, I'm gonna get all the best post offices. Like don't do all the other performative like, you know, BS up here. Like don't need to fool around, we get it. Just be the post office guy. But yeah, like, but this is the same point is like there's all this other stuff. And then look, I don't, and then I'm an outsider. So I often get met with, yeah, but you don't know how hard or challenging it is. And like, you're absolutely right. And that's a good thing. because you need someone as naive as me and as excited and as committed and as like, like I'm a zealot to make sure this happens, right? Like my kids are on the line. I'm bringing them into this world actively. Like they are the AI generation. They will only ever know world with AI. We better get this right. And I'm going to be there making sure we do. And you're right. I don't know how hard it's going to be, but maybe taking it in from a different angle. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Eric Jones: and seeing things differently and just being forceful around things that matter will create more and better change and will be better for the American people than just being like, ⁓ yeah, the system in DC, it's, know, it's, yes, it's corrupt. Yes, it's rotten. Yes, it's rigged. It is. Change it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's why we can't keep voting for the same people. Eric Jones: Correct. Doing the same thing, and I'm missing this quote, right? It's like if you do the same thing repeatedly, expecting a different result every time, like you're insane, right? In any other competitive environment, if we were a sports team or a business or we're selling Girl Scout cookies, we would have swapped over the roster at least a couple of times to try something new. Because there's an accountability function. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): For real. Eric Jones: You're the last in the league, right? You lose 100 to zero or your business goes bankrupt or ⁓ your Girl Scout troop doesn't have enough money for your uniforms because you couldn't sell enough cookies. Like there are repercussions in accountability and there's consequences and that makes you adapt. But in government... You can kind of just sit there. Say the right things. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. And imagine having a job for 15 years and you got seven things done. And really all it was was you changed the name on that office and you put in a new name. It's effectively the same thing. Eric Jones: And look, will say like, ⁓ he has a great team that does good local constituent work that does the of the ground game of being in Congress, like the local staff here. But yeah, we also, we do send people to Washington to write laws and to make progress. So that's good. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And if it's a PAC that's doing your job, then you're doing your job. ⁓ cheating on your homework. And that goes for everybody not just you, Mike Thompson. ⁓ Eric Jones: Hey, you're being an- Yeah, you're bought out, right? And again, it's not, I'm highlighting, I know you've spoken to a bunch of folks, kind of outsiders, disruptors, you know, like me. ⁓ Disruption can be a good thing as long as it's done with like kindness and awareness of situation. ⁓ But it's not just my opponent. It's, you know, it's everybody, right? That's unfortunate part is it really is the system and it's both sides. ⁓ Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Eric Jones: I don't even, I don't have personal, I don't take personal issue with people who are doing the wrong thing, but doing it the only way they kind of know how to do it. Like that's just, again, sort of the reality of having the same people doing the same job. They do it the same way after a certain point, right? When you've been doing a job for 50 plus years, you definitely can teach an old dog new tricks. I'm not sure you can teach a 50 year old dog new tricks, right? Like it's just, it's just, it's just, that's the reality of it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. I want to talk real quick about, you know, go back to AI and all the money that's going into it. Cause I find it interesting that they would, they would basically go no bumpers on AI, but, but they don't see the benefit of educating our kids. ⁓ but when we're, when we're going whole hog on AI spending billions and billions of dollars. How are these companies going to realize all of these investments? Like what's their what's their focus? Are they trying to take over government with computers? Do they just want to make cool memes? Like what's their end goal? Eric Jones: So again, this is me, me talking and ⁓ I am going to ⁓ give these companies the benefit of the doubt. ⁓ I describe what I think their intentions are. And but also repeat what I said before. At the end of the day, there are corporations and their goal is to make profit. Right. And legally, illegally. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Eric Jones: or better for them, what they usually do is make the illegal thing legal. Right? ⁓ Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): They keep doing the illegal thing until someone turns on the light. Yeah. Eric Jones: Correct. ⁓ yeah, exactly. Keep the light switch off or just like eliminate the light switch altogether, right? ⁓ Keep defunding the IRS until there's just no one who can even go after you. What were going to say? Okay, Claude, let's go. So Anthropic and OpenAI are the big ones, right? And then, they are different. ⁓ I really think that what Anthropic, how Anthropic positioned itself against Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Eric Jones: with the Trump administration and holding its ground was incredible. And I think that's very important. They are positioning themselves as like the platform to build things. So if you wanna code something and build a product, ⁓ do something more commercially, ⁓ but that's really where they're known for today. Again, like everyone's gonna go into the comments and say things that I'm wrong. So I'm just giving a really rough, rough, rough, rough, rough, And then, rough. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Eric Jones: And then OpenAI, I see them as sort of like the Google killer. Like what everyone used to Google search as sort of kind of a first entree into the internet. I think that chatGVT is going to be that delivery mechanism for all that information and will kind of be more productized to the consumer. So those are kind of two different ones more on like the what we call B2B ones more on the CDC. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. And that's business to business versus business to consumer, you know, for those folks that are Eric Jones: But they're both, to be clear, consumer products. Yeah, that would be the typical. And again, I'm making really, yeah, business of business versus business of consumer. There's also C2C models, consumer to consumer, like marketplaces, ⁓ eBay, et cetera. So that's kind how I see both of them. Which is why so many of these computer science jobs are being questioned of how necessary are they now that AI has gotten so good, right? And that's a lot of what Cloud has done with Cloud code. And again, lot of what OPA-CHAT-UPT has done, I think, is really be that you're kind of everything, access to the information. And they charge, both companies charge subscriptions. And as of today, I don't think they either do ads. So right now they're monetizing principally through premium subscription models, which I do think are better for consumers than ad-based models. Because with a... with a subscription model, you don't have an implied consent to give all your data. Like the moment you have an advertising model, regardless of what regulation you put in place, you've functionally consented to the idea that you're allowing yourself to be sold things. And if you consent to that, they're going to try to collect your data. They're going to try to get better at selling things to you. So I do like a little bit. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. They're gonna tell you Clorox is better than blah blah blah, whatever. Eric Jones: Correct. That's obvious, right? You walked into the mall with all the perfumer people who they still do that? I don't know. You come out smelling like that. All right, we'll go ahead. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. They do. There was a place over here on Sonoma Square. got in trouble for very aggressive perfuming the public. Eric Jones: ⁓ Too much? ⁓ The perfume permits didn't come through. ⁓ but anyway, that's the way I see, I of, I see both of them. And I do think it's a good thing that they're monetizing via consumer subscriptions. ⁓ Now, the downside to that would be, you know, they're less accessible, but they certainly are offering, you know, multiple tiers that are I mean, the lowest tier is pretty darn good, think, what it does, for being free. So that's good. Now, do I trust these guys? No. Because that's, no. Again, we have to eliminate that framing. They are corporations with the intent of making profit. Yes, they're made of people who can be good or bad and... Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah. Eric Jones: have all sorts of different intentions and beliefs of what the future can hold totally. But as a structural point, they are corporations. And that's not a bad thing inherently. They just have to be treated as such. And people have to be protected. And resources have to be allocated such that we are still investing in education and communities and all that stuff. ⁓ again, I'm trying to temper some of the fear around AI and just. you know, give you a little bit of a hug and say like, you know, it is, it's, it's, like, we, can do this. ⁓ we can get this right. And I'm encouraged that. It took us a bit to figure out that cigarettes are bad for us to really believe it. For a while, they were actually healthy. ⁓ Similarly, with so Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, and that's a perfect example for what we were talking about just two minutes ago. Like doctors used to get paid to tell you that the cigarette was good for you. Eric Jones: Yup. And then we had... Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): You don't want that in your AI. Eric Jones: Nope, social media, right, also took a while for us to be like, ⁓ yeah, this probably isn't good for us. Definitely not good for kids, probably not good for adults. With AI, pretty fast out the gate. People are like, okay. there's gonna be some issues here. What are the issues? What are we concerned about? How do we address them? So that's good. Like we got to the sort of question, the problem rather like faster this time. And we're aware of it. And there are leaders in these companies who are building their careers on the idea of safety. And wanna differentiate and I believe that there's a way forward to do it. And they're powerful and they're talented. I genuinely do believe they believe that. That's great. That's really special. That's good. We're learning. People are learning. Do I think that means automatically we'll be able to create a safe regulatory environment for AI? No, we have to get the right people in place to do it. But I'm encouraged that this is, we are more aware of the potential ramifications in this cycle of disruption or whatever you want to call it than prior ones. And that's a good thing. It's a necessary thing because again, my children, well, their whole lives, Only no AI. so we better get it right. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, it helps. have on the free version of chat GPT. I have come up with business plans, budgets and all kinds of stuff for things that I am convinced will help society. Different different training facilities and stuff like that. I have a conversation with AI and I. You know. I always joke it's improved my relationship with my friends because I don't reach out to them every time I have a dumb ass idea. Now I can flesh it out and I can come out with the proper documentation and then I pitch it to them. So it's helpful. depending on, you know, where we go with it and how we regulate it and how we control it. Because, we've learned we've learned in Iran ⁓ is one of the runs that that these boys did. ⁓ I think it was the they used AI and they AI didn't recognize the school properly. And so this, you know what I mean? There's those things that are happening that definitely do need to be addressed and all the Patriot Act and all the surveillance stuff all that stuff needs to be addressed and we need folks like you in there folks that get it folks that are tapped into their their kids Because this is wild. This is, we are. Eric Jones: Yeah, this is the thing I tell people like. I am going to give everything I have to make this right. And if you can believe me for just one reason, it's my kids. And I'm not saying you have to have kids to believe what I believe at all. But for me personally, that was the, it's really, really. It's like a stake driven deep into my heart and my brain. can't get away with it. have to do this. ⁓ Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Let ask you really, let me ask you hopefully a really easy question. Do you want your kids tracked and controlled and debanked? Eric Jones: Yeah. No, I think we should not at all. Right? Like, I think that... Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Just as simple. Eric Jones: Now we're getting really now we're getting to the you led me to you asked a really easy question that was very emotional and I'm to give you a technical answer back right. the world that I want from a technology perspective is that every individual controls all of their data all of it. Only them it's a box and then they can open the box. Which you do want to give your data to folks right to do different to make your life easier to make technology work. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Let's do it. Mm-hmm. Eric Jones: Those of us who are already in the world, the box is, I mean, trying to grab everything out there and put it in the box. Good luck. Maybe we can do some of it, but it's going to be really hard. Now for our kids, look, like we can say until six, you cannot collect any data on them. There is no, they do not exist. I'm making this framework, right? Because obviously they're going to have to use this with technology. You'll have to use things in schools, sign up for accounts, emails, whatever. But I'm using this as an example. Let's keep their box empty. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Right. Right. Eric Jones: until they turn 16. And then you'll have control because you'll be starting from ground zero and they'll know about how to maintain their own data and security. And that to me is like the conceptual model. This would be hosted, this would be probably on premise. This would be actually done in a variety of different ways, right? But to me, that is like the framing of how we need to protect people online. And... And that way, like all this stuff on surveillance or ads or is my phone listening to me? Like, you'll know. And it'll be very clear when something's breached because there should be no information about you that exists outside that box. So if there is, someone did something wrong. They collected something they shouldn't have taken or they just stole a piece of data. They didn't return the information, so to speak, right? Like there's ways to do this that I think we have to start talking about because If AI agents are maneuvering through the world, we have to be able to protect places and say, right now AI can read basically all of Reddit and most of the internet and most of Google, right? But there are clearly areas where it can't go and its information is hived off. And I believe we should be able to hive off your personal information. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, I've had conversations with folks that are very, very scared of AI and their data and all that stuff. And I say, yeah, I understand that it's new, but how cool would it be if I reached out to Eric and I say, Eric, we should get together for lunch sometime. I talked to my calendar and I say, find a time for Eric to come and we can go to El Dorado kitchen for some amazing. Eric Jones: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): amazing truffle fries. And then my AI contacts your AI and says, all right, boom, this is the time that it fits for both of you. And if there's any coupons they can email us the coupon. I don't know. don't know. Eric Jones: Yes. The beauty of that is I can spend the time with you. With a real end. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Eric Jones: Again, I'm a hopeful guy. So the world I hope for is one where with everything you just said, there's a renewed appreciation for, excuse me, a renewed appreciation for everything else, right? And it can not create noise, but hopefully remove some of the background noise so that you can have lunch with someone in the seamless way. and enjoy that experience of two people being together. And in the same way that I hope that anything a human hand touches will be seen as so much more valuable than things only touched by technology. And because that intent of what they drove is what's really critical. And I know we see this in other categories. There's categories in other parts of the world, right? We see this in... ⁓ We see our turn to people wanting that connection and wanting the realness of something that's human and handmade. And whether it's architecture or it's music or it's lunch, right? Or it's making food or growing something or any of the things that can be touched. think that I hope that we renew the value there because it's so important and it gets us back out into communities and talking to each other and being with each other. And we have so much healing in our country to do around being together. The same way that... When everything can be replicated online, the stuff that's real should be even more special. Even though it's maybe exactly the same, it will be different. And it will feel different. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. No. This is why Florida hates California, because we're getting mushy. Eric Jones: Now we're all up here in the clouds, man. Now we're like talking about the NBA. ⁓ do we? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mushy men who love their moms for president. ⁓ come on. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Exactly. Shout out my mom too. I miss you. I love you. She's still with us, but she lives in Florida. That's why. Eric Jones: That's why you can take free jabs because you're a mom. By the way, this has been one of the cooler things about having these long-form conversations is you get to stuff that you otherwise wouldn't, clearly. And you can see kind of who people are. And that's part of this whole thing. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Right. Exactly. I can't get to know Eric Jones and listen to you gush over your kids in a four-minute clip. It's impossible. It's impossible. Eric Jones: That's so funny! Can I, okay. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I want people to I want people to meet you guys and to really understand where you guys are coming from. Because yeah, politicians are human. They're not all evil. They're not all for the big checks. Like there's a lot of you that are that are trying to make change because it's the right thing to do, not because anyone is paying them to do it. Eric Jones: Exactly. And by the way, there's a lot of us, well now running, and some of us in office, but a lot of us running, who are living this real, like living this world today, like today. And the median Americans, the middle, right, is the median American age is 39 years old. That that half of Americans are younger than that. Right? Who's representing them? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): He's definitely not an 85 year old. Eric Jones: Like, right, right, the 39 year old is like, ⁓ these like these big, I can't talk to these guys. And but then there's a lot of people younger than definitionally half. And, you know, and then a lot of those people who are younger, they're living the real problems of today, they're living, I can't find childcare, they're living the, why is my healthcare getting so expensive, they're living the utility rates have doubled. They're living the I can't afford a home. I want to have kids and I have a family but I can't afford a home. Do I have to move them? I'm stuck here with my job. I'm stuck with my job because my health insurance had to my job. Like, like they're living that right? And they're living like, you know, I have a family member in the military who might be deployed, right? They're living that. And I'm living as a parent for all the parent shout outs out there, you know, like, I thought that after you got your kids out of diapers and their potty trained that, you know, you were you were done on that front. I've now learned between potty training and full potty autonomy is like ⁓ a pretty significant period of time. it's a geometry problem, right? Like my son's arms are not physically long enough to properly wipe his own butt. ⁓ He can do a half good job, ⁓ but not a sufficient job. And he calls me into action pretty frequently to help out. ⁓ So I say that because for all the parents out there, no one talks about that. ⁓ that we all kind of like, yeah, potty trained. It's like, ⁓ God, but then there's that inter, you know, the other period, the limbo before full potty autonomy. And that's the limbo I'm right now as a parent. We can call him, we can call him, we can call him potty. Yeah, well, they say at some point, you know, like, man, I remember my, we took, we had a Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Sure. And depending on the kids, sometimes those responsibilities never go away. Eric Jones: I had a period of time taking care of my grandparents in a really small home. And my grandfather had a colostomy bag. And the amount of time, which is for those who don't know, ⁓ it's basically external bowels or a ⁓ repository for your bowels externally in your body. you no longer go to the bathroom the same way. And those things get broken all the time. They come off. And I say all that because I spent a lot of time cleaning up my grandfather's feces, shit, whatever word you want to use. ⁓ So it does all come back one day. Like one day, kids and the grandkids are taking care of you. And that's the way it should be. that's okay. You know what I'm like, don't do that to me. You and Jen are angels. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. I wasn't even thinking that deep. was thinking like once you get to 21 and you start drinking too much. Eric Jones: That's the other type. That's the other type. You learn, you learn pretty quickly. I think you back off and you're like, okay, I've hit the, I now know where my limit is based on how my bowels can kind of process. Man, we went places that we probably shouldn't have gone. But the reality is that you gotta potty your kids. And it is a thing, and it's funny, and it's tiring, and... Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): We're in wine country. Yeah. Eric Jones: Most kids learn how to do it eventually, so don't worry too much. But yeah, we got to live in the real world a little bit. We need politicians living in the real world. just need it. I'm excited when I'm there to meet other folks who have young families. Are there other folks who have young families? How many Congressional's have young families nowadays? Is that even a thing? I have to look at it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Well, it depends. It depends on how dirty the man is. back in the day, they would have two, three different families. You're like, what? What? ⁓ Eric Jones: Oh, come on, We've cleaned up a little bit since then. I don't know, actually. I take that back. I don't know why. Yeah, you're right. They're all terrible. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, I agree. I agree. Yeah. Eric Jones: I mean, there's still more files. I don't know who else is in those remaining files because it seems like they've got everyone. But there's more files. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): ⁓ Those files are I can't even I can't even ⁓ just anyway, there's that out there too. There's that out there too. I know you have a meeting you said at the top of the hour. Okay, take take take a couple minutes. Eric Jones: Yeah. There's that. Yeah. Yeah, I gotta hop. But I will say, if you don't mind, to give you a shout out. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): take a couple minutes to just give your final sales pitch and let people know where they can find you online. And then that way you can we can we can wrap up. Eric Jones: Thank you. www.ericjones.us. ericjones.com was gonna cost me million bucks. Didn't seem like a good investment. But .us, which is patriotic. That's also all of our different social handles. It's at ericjones.us. Email me, talk to me, DM me. And look, we hit a lot of the key points, but I am running. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): No. Eric Jones: for office because there's no other country on earth where I could be who I am. And I feel so grateful to this country, to this state, to this community, and every other member of my family has committed their life to service at some point, and this is my time to serve. And I'm doing it now because I believe that if we don't do it now, the direction of travel in our country is bad. It's pretty terrifying. And I see the American dream getting harder and harder and harder to achieve for people every day. And that's what binds us together as a nation. It's the American dream, that idea. We are all different. America is special. We are a multiracial, multicultural democracy defined by the American dream. That's our project. That's why we come here together to do shit. And when you lose that, suddenly the things that connect us start to slip away. And that's why I talk about education. That's why I talk about health care. That's why I talk about wealth and equality. Because if we're not supporting the American dream at every step, at every stage, if we're not creating more economic opportunity for the next generation, if we can't promise that the next generation will be better off than the last, if we can't make that promise, we're failing our citizens. And right now, that used to be the truth. That if you put your head down and you worked hard, You would have something to pass on. You have a better life than the prior generation. You have something to pass on to your kids, pass on to your community. And somewhere along the line that stopped. And we have to get it back. We have to invest in that promise. And we do that through education and health care and supporting families, making it easier to have kids, making it easier to get people into homes by building housing. And we can do all those things more easily. if we can get money out of politics. I'm taking a no-pack pledge. I'm taking a pledge to never turn to stock. I don't own any stocks today. ⁓ I've got the grandma portfolio. We need people doing this for the right reasons, who will not be bought out, who will not be corrupted, who, yeah, have a little bit of, maybe they're naive, such that they'll try to accomplish really hard things that no one else wants to accomplish. And then if we have a thousand people do it, only one of us needs to succeed. Right? But we need a thousand people trying. And that's why I'm doing this now. Because I have two young children. They will grow up in a very different world than I grew up in. And I'm not that old. And I want to make sure that for their generation and people older than them, that we have a future in our country that's bright. And that that's what we're talking about. That we're not trying to divide each other or hate each other. we're talking together about how to build a brighter future. Clearly that's not where we are today. So thank you. And this was a much more casual and fun conversation than many I have. I appreciate it. you've a wonderful way. I've enjoyed our chat. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): ⁓ I appreciate you. Thank you. That means a lot. ⁓ And thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule. I follow you on Instagram and you're always out there doing something. I promise I'm going to catch up to you in one of your little outings out here. If you're ever coming to Sonoma, please reach out. ⁓ But you're in Napa, so that's not that far. But yeah, I'm impressed by you. ⁓ And thank you for... explaining things to the audience. ⁓ So they see that it is an important time in history. But if we approach it and we build the right team and we build the right coalition who is going to usher in this new age, I think just that understanding is going to be immensely helpful to just normal people that just want to wake up, take care of the kids, teach the kids how to do potty and go to work and come home. Eric Jones: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): and watch the pit like. Eric Jones: Exactly. You said it. ⁓ That is, yeah, that sounds pretty good. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): So thank you so much again. Thank you, Nick. I know you're probably listening somewhere. Thank you, Nick, for helping putting this together. ⁓ Eric Jones: My team will need my solo on this one. They must really trust me at this point. ⁓ shout out to Nick, shout out to moms. We cannot shout out enough moms. There you go, everywhere. yeah, they're leading the world. ⁓ Thank you, brother. I appreciate it. Talk to you soon, okay? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): ⁓ yeah. Shout out moms. Yes. Thank you, talk to you soon. And with that everybody, we're out.