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Episode 252: Echoes (SG-A 3.12) · Get Into Gate: A Stargate Podcast

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Get in Agate episode two hundred and fifty two. We're talking Stargate Atlantis,
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the Gate team here in. My name is Mitchell. If we're going to
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go full name, which I don't think I've ever done on the podcast before
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and maybe not ever again, Matthew, Happy birthday for last week, mat
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Hey, thanks so much. Happy birthday for the week before. Brendan,
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thank you. You call me dig face Dick. Also you gonna say call
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me come pig. That's taken. That name is trademark. We apologize to
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the proper ownA of Tim Dilloney. Bustle can come peg a Season three Restargate
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Atlantis episode number You know what, this doesn't really help because my bloody but
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hasn't a booklet. I brought this, I brought this unlucky. That's why
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I don't bring mining because it doesn't have a doesn't have it. You know
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what's been that long since I brought my own DVD that I've forgotten about it.
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Yeah, we just learned to bring his in every week. No,
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it's would be fine. Well do you have the same deal? Do you
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have the same I got that? Yeah, No, one's good. But
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we've we've c only came out and that as far as I'm aware, But
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we've read a booklet this season from Atlantis, haven't we. I'm sure I
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don't know that we have. You're relying on me to do it, and
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so no, Jacob good Jacob, Jacob with a K. He's he sends
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me messages all the time where he's like, just sends me a message from
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a podcast from season two and just adds to it like like, I remember
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what we said. I love that, and I have to defend myself what
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we said exactly. Yeah, I love that about Jacob and those stories he
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eat. The line between being a good friend of yours and a big fan
2:04
of the podcast is almost invisible, that line, like it's just yeah,
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friendly banter into yeah. But it's like in season three, episode you know,
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twenty seven, when you actually said that and this happened and you're like,
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oh, man, like no that. I mean all my closes decades
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are obsessed with me. So just just like Mitch when he just like,
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you know, at nine o'clock on Wednesday night, he sends a message,
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do you do into a podcast with me? Biddy? You want to talk
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about X men you X minence double of course, And then we don't do
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it. Yeah. Episode thirteen of season three Irresponsible. The team here of
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a great warrior with stories of defeating both the Janni and Raith, and seek
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him out in hopes of making a new ally. But when they learned that
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this great warrior is none other than Lucius, they believe he's up to his
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old tricks again. This is a Joe and Paul episode, yeah, because
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I've got that episode in front of you, But I believe that that was
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That was one of the first things I noticed about this episode and when I
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love it. Obviously that off Earth in almost every episode of Stargate Atlantis,
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but when they do right in Atlanta's episode, they can't get off the base
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enough SG one. They love being on Earth Atlantis, they love getting away
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from Atlantis. I'd love to get away from this episode. This episode is
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so bad. Even my DVD player and PC didn't want to play this episode.
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Literally, it would play the first the first bit, yeah, up
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to like where Lucius is like getting the the injection where Beckett is like testing
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his blood, and then it would freeze. My whole computer would freeze,
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so I have no audio for this episode. And then I went and put
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it down into my DVD player and exact same thing. I would have to
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skip to about halfway through the episode for it to then actually kick in.
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So there's sorry three Starkacre. There's literally a whole like, no way,
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there's a whole Like six minutes in this episode. I literally could not watch
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because every device in my house that has a DVD player function was like absolutely
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the not yeah all right, well, I mean on the first time.
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But I'm the only one that's been able to actually watch this in full.
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But because I didn't, I didn't how long since we've seen Lucius, like
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four episodes, Like it's been nothing really episode three of this season, so
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ten literally been ten waits and that's like, that's twenty of our weeks in
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the podcast. Really, I mean it's giving a couple of doubles here and
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there or whatever, but realistically, well, it's not long enough that I've
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forgotten him. Yeah, I didn't remember his name, so when when the
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synopsis I read before I watched the episode, So yeah, Lucy's and I'm
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like, I don't even know who that is. That the idea of me
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as a reader reading that going oh they see him again, I'm like,
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I don't know, and there's a time where you need the bracket, saying
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Richard Kink, Yes, it really did. But then it was its own
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surprise when that happened, and I was like, oh it Tim, oh
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really, like we're already catching up with him again, and then being told
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who was coming up in the episode was ruined for me by the credit because
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like, I didn't feel the need. I didn't feel like I was going
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to have it. Col Cup pops up and says Robert Darvey as COLI.
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I'm like, damn it. I would have loved to have found that out
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by John Sheppard yelling out the window. That would have been amazing, but
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that that didn't happen, So yeah, it felt like a weird character to
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revisit. Even if we would have seen him in like episode two of season
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two and then we don't see him again until like the third last episode of
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maybe season three or even season four, you'd be like, really we going
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back to this guy? Like we didn't. We didn't get closure on him
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as a character. I feel like the most irresponsible part of this episode was
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committing it to film. That was like I love Richard kind love Roberdrvy,
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but this was just a miss on so many levels. Yeah, I mean,
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you know, the village felt, you know, very genero. I
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mean a lot of these Well that's the village from Revisions. Yeah, that's
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so we've seen. Actually, it's funny in the Auto Country because Martin would
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directed this, which you wouldn't expect because he normally directs some really good stuff.
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Well, Joe and Paul write some great episodes too, So through the
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one from the like they had the link right, yes, yeah, Martin
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Wood through this whole audio commentary was like, I'm so sorry, really,
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I'm so sorry because apparently this originally when it was written, it was meant
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to be shot in border Town, which is the set they use for like
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one hundred days, and like Beast of Burden back in the day, where
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it's more like a Western muddy thing. That's why there was the like the
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Gunslinger thing at the end between John and and Collier that was supposed to be
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like in a big long like Western Star, which would have been so like
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so on the nose obviously, because I mean when that happened, I'm like,
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well, yeah, this whole episode has been a cliche Western story,
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like just the wrong setting. Yeah, well, you know these people they
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show up, there's this guy who's got all these stories, and then other
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people come into the town to take over, and it's up to this sort
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of small ragtag of people to the bar. Needed the swinging saloon doors,
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yeah, and stuff like that, so Richard kind of walk in. I'm
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glad that didn't work out because I don't think we needed it to be as
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obvious that we're having a Western inspired just none of the stuff made sense that
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like, even yeah, Martin Wood was like, well, you know,
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like he was pointing out some he was like, well, this doesn't make
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sense because it's like they're talking in the bar at the start. Lucius gets
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up walks away like Lee's. Then Beckett walks in and says, oh,
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no, he doesn't have the drug in his system anymore. So then they
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walk out to find him, and that's when like the quote unquote air quote
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raiders come in, yeah and do the thing. And even Martin Wood's like,
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well, that doesn't make sense. He couldn't have set that up in
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that amount of time. But because we had so little set to shoot on,
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we couldn't make it look like like that thing where they're attacked by the
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raiders. They're supposed to be halfway back to the gate by that point,
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so it would have given some like offscreen time for Lucius to have set that
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up. But everything just kind of just bang bangming because it's like you're shooting
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inside the building, you shooting outside the building in the courtyard. The first
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raiders that like were the ponytail guy. Yeah, right, see. I
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actually didn't mind that because I would have I've sort of taken that as that
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was something that he had organized prior to the scene with with the with the
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SGA. Yeah, I thought that media and because you get that scene or
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sorry, it was the scene with the woman in the bar, that same
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scene that pre preceded the raatest scene because he obviously had that woman come up.
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He's like, hey, why don't you come over to my place?
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She's like no, no, no thanks, Yeah, why on the town
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here? Yeah, but that was ages ago, so I've almost like that
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or he's got it in his in his in his diary like this is going
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to happen, like every four months, something's gonna happen. Or the bar
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Wench said no, he's organized it, and then he's had that scene with
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Yeah, I believe that's how it was written. But then obviously Martin would
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still being a very good director, was obviously yeah, I would have filled
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both you and I were It was like Brendan's watching the episode now on his
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phone. Yeah, so it's like I had the same idea as you with
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it. Oh that's something that loose had set up before, like Shepherd's team
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even got there. Yeah, but apparently the way it was written, it
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was like no because of like what the bar maid was saying, so that
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he went it was like, oh, it's time for another one. Yes.
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It was quite funny listening to Martin Wood just like shit canning his own
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his own work. The whole episode just going and here's another reason why this
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doesn't work. This doesn't work. It's like, and this is the same
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room as this, this is We've literally shot every square inch of this set.
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But apparently, yeah, the border Town set was like in such a
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state of disrepair that they couldn't even really film on it without like putting them
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over budget. So they just had to pivot and shows went back to the
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Revisions Town because it was sort of shootable. I just love how high and
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mighty. Most of the of the SGA team were around Lucius like you had.
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He had Beckett sort of standing behind him at times, just giggling like
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at how ludicrous he Isn't like, let's not pretend you weren't ready to suck
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him off at any given moment that he would have requested it ten episodes ago,
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he did. You know, at least Ronan was angry at him and
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just wanted to hit him because of what he'd done. And no, no
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wonder, you know, Ronan, God knows what he was made to do.
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But you know, Beckett was just sitting there like a co't believe people
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fall for this, you know, And then you've got I mean, at
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least were to move on from that. Okay, what else are you doing?
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And yeah, yeah, because the end of the day, they didn't
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leave him, let him go last time, So it's like they can't really
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hold onto any of those emotions from last time because it's like, well,
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the drug war off and they let him go. Yeah, and then he's
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banished from his village. Yeah, so it's not like he got the raw
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end of the deal in the end. Yeah, although now he's got two
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chicks fondling his feet. Well, he had he had more than that.
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In the first one, he had like three wives or whatever in the first
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one. Yeah, so I did like, and does he have a foot
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fit fetish or maybe they would maybe whatether was it? Like freaking Tarantina?
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He doesn't say. See Cooper thinks that he's Kubrick, Martin Wood thinks he's
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Tarantino. So he's got to put feet in all the shots. It was
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funny that who's just kept he kept using like he said it. I think
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at least twice in the episode where he's like, oh, so I said
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to the Wraith Queen, if you were twenty pound seventy, you look like
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my ex wife. And then like later on he says, obviously my wives
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were stunning. I just had to correct himself with that last monk, just
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like telling fat jokes. And then he's he's referring to the bloke the gimpy
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wrist. He's got the gimpy wrist. And I almost like there was just
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a couple of like real set of key moments and key words in there that
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I'm like, you know, you're not getting away with writing that into a
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script today, like having fun it like you a fat joke or you know,
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not the ability reference, but just the last episode he was in when
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they hid the drowning boy. Oh, that's lady behind the hard r behind
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it. Speaking of hard h is that ponytail guy like the raider guy with
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the ponia. You guys might not get this reference, but if you remember
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from Goodwill Hunting there's that iconic scene where Matt daaneples the apples. I got
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a number. How do you like their apples? Well? In one of
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the Jay and Silent Bob movies, I think it might have been Jane Bob's
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strike back. Yes, they'd make a joke where Goodwill Hunting two is being
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remade like twenty years later, and like Affleck and Damon and they're doing it
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and they bring the apple guy back and he's got this dodgy ponytail, and
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it looks exactly like this guy, to the point where I had to look
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up IMDb to make sure that it wasn't the same actor. I was so
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convinced it was the same guy who was the guy and Jay and someone above
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the ponytail guy? Was he your name? I feel like it doesn't matter.
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I don't know, Yeah, Eric Stalta, it doesn't look like Eric
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stars I think Eric Stealts in Butterfly fact had that same ponytail. Yeah,
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I was ye in pulp fiction. Yes, of course, imagine that's his
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whole career. He could have been in Back to the Future, the most
12:54
popular trilogy. Know, he's like a really really good he's a pretty prolific
12:58
director and stuf. Now. Yeah, but he thinks about it he's doing.
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But he did Mask, he was He was in Mask with Share.
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He was the guy with the mounted face in Mask in the eighties. He's
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had a great creer. He played tailor on his brother in Madame's Secretary in
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Bloody. What did you say before that Butterfly Butterfly effect? He is awesome?
13:22
Yeah, great? But you you assume that Back to the Future would
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have been as big a hit as it is. No, it's just more
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than That's why he got. It's just like I imagine if I did Get,
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if that was all the success was the same, except that shaky boy.
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I was gonna say, well, at least Eric s. Dolls could
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go well, at least I can sign my own name, wipe my own
13:46
ask Jesus Michael can Shakey's own dick? I reckon. If he hadn't Reckon.
13:54
It's Scott William Winter. So I'm back on ponent. I was going
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to like top three or top five even people that have like still had.
14:01
Will Smith had an amazing career. Coudally slapped Chris, but he turned the
14:05
role of Neo down to the Matrix at the time because he was an upward
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like the late nineties, you know what he wanted to do instead Wild Wild
14:13
West. That's right. Oh yep, that's really does look like the guy
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from this. I thought that was a CSI guy. Scott William Winters is
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the is the Apple guy Vegas? Oh yeah, Caruso does look a little
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Caruso is, Yeah, from this. Look at his credits. His credits
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Goodwill, Hunting the People versus Larry Frint Flint and Jane Bag Bullship Clark Clark
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was his character name. That's hilarious. Oh not the guy from Atlantis.
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Oh okay, it's such a like we're talking the last couple of episodes.
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I have people showing up for the last time. Now we took a big
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characters and whatnot. Colier he's been a recurring character and like I like the
14:54
actor. He's appeared in some some big films. My chonic sort of performances
14:56
for me, especially as a Bond fan. He's one of my great on
15:00
villains. And then he pops up in this A License to Kill the Second
15:05
Timothy Dalton one. I might even I'll play my favorite line, I love
15:11
the music. He finds his girlfriend having an affair with a bloke and he
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goes and sits on the bed next to them, both naked, and he
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says to the girl, whether he promise you he's hurt, give her hid
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No, I didn't mean any harm. Not. The preple person snakes.
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The rescorpez are getting more created. That's nice. It's cold. It doesn't
15:58
even sound like a Bond film. It's the cold open. That's the first
16:02
scene of the film. Man and he's aug he's a drug guy and so
16:04
he's not even like a bloke with aspirations of you know, world domination or
16:07
crippling governments. He's a drug cartel leader like and he just happens to kill
16:11
the friend of all, you know, attempt to kill the friend of Bond,
16:15
and Bond takes personally. And I saw that scene. That scene I
16:19
saw when I was eight. I'd watched like Beethoven or some shit on TV,
16:25
and then in my room and the guys haven't seen the first two.
16:30
But then next to it License to Kill, and I'm like, oh,
16:33
watch this. Never seen a Bond film, obviously I'm eight. And then
16:34
I watched that and I was horrified. So I've always been scar scarred by
16:41
the the acne scarred man of Robert Darvey. And you know, then he
16:45
shows up as one of the Johnson's and die Hard and he's a bit of
16:48
fun, but you know he played Mitchell loves You gotta get it. That's
16:52
one for that which one die heard a Bond take you peek? Okay,
16:56
well I haven't got a I haven't got a sound effects of Bond, so
16:59
I'll just give myself fair enough. What I Love You insert here is the
17:03
only Bond reference I know, which is I think I've sent it to you
17:06
probably six times over the last ten years. Is the is the three Nerds
17:08
from Buffy, which is the best Bond? And then someone the the third
17:14
like the really really lame one, like he's like the the curly of the
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curly. I like Timothy Dalton just gets smacked over the back. See I
17:22
love Timothy Dalton doesn't get enough respect obviously running over Roger Moore and Roger he's
17:26
playing for the longest sandwich your push chair. That must have been dreaming.
17:36
So like, yeah, him coming back and this is Colier's goodbye from the
17:40
show. Seems like it's like we're going to tape you on to the second
17:42
Lucious Lovin episode. Really he felt like a tertiary character. Yeah, it
17:48
wasn't a Colier episode with lucias in it. It was a Loucius episode with
17:52
Colie. Yeah, and the tone was all over the place, like given
17:55
how like you look at Colier's last episode was when John was being fed by
18:00
a wraith and we like that was a that was the first time in Atlantis.
18:03
I was like, how the fuck are we going to get out of
18:07
this? Like how is John going to get his get his life back?
18:11
And you know, there was a serious episode and then this was just all
18:14
like frothy and light and he was just like, oh, this is weird.
18:18
Yeah, because when Collier comes in, you're like, there's a serious
18:21
series. But what I did like the banter between Lucius and him though,
18:26
like yeah, it wasn't like a grade comedy, but it was just it's
18:30
just fun to see Colier who's so serious and so confident, and Lucius is
18:36
just like, yeah, I do want around here just like what I do.
18:41
I do kind of wish there was a little more. I don't know
18:45
if depth is the right word, but just like Colia is always so calm
18:48
and calculated enoughing phases him so even like I would have loved for him to
18:53
be really perturbed by Lucius or find Lucious fascinating, Like I wanted something different,
19:02
because Lucius is someone that Collie would just like he tried to do with
19:06
Ponytail guy, would just murder him straight up. He's like, I don't
19:10
have time for you. But he couldn't. I mean he could have,
19:12
you know, he could have just buried him or dround him like they were
19:15
like they were planning to do. But he could He did try. As
19:18
he walked out, he's like, get out of here. These people are
19:21
under my protection, see and it's like bang, like no words. I
19:23
love that. He I'm like, I want coll you to be that.
19:26
Yeah, so I would have wanted I almost wanted to be kind of a
19:30
Collier retrospective. It's like Collier's never never been challenged this way before, Like
19:37
he respects John as an adversary, even though they want to kill each other,
19:41
they respect each other as like, you know, quote unquote warriors,
19:44
where it's like Collier would never ever see Lucius as a warrior and the only
19:49
reason Lucius is this obstruction is because of the personal shield. So I would
19:53
love I would have loved for Collier to have like tried to do some kind
19:57
of alternate approach, but there was Yeah, he would find that fascinating him.
20:04
Fascinating, Yeah, And it's like, how would Collier react to someone
20:07
as absolutely grating as Lucius love and but he can't just put a bullet in
20:12
him and move on his vendetta against John. So I would have almost liked
20:17
to have seen more of that, But I guess there just wasn't enough time,
20:21
wasn't enough meeting the script where Robert Darvey just had to play Collier as
20:25
normal yeah, you know, and we didn't and then got a really lame
20:27
death at the end. It was very antilicaimactic and also and even Martin would
20:34
realize very very terribly shot because they have their little you know, standoff you
20:40
know, in the in the their wild Ware shootout where they shoot from the
20:42
hip who's behind Colliery the entire Atlantis team. John John's shooting from the hip,
20:51
so his AIM's not very good. If he his gun was just like
20:53
a centimeter either way, he would have shot Taylor or Ronan even like while
21:02
they were sitting there like do I do I not, sort of sit there
21:03
hovering over the gun. He was like, if I do do it,
21:07
I've I've got to not miss, otherwise I'm killing one of my four teammates.
21:11
And he was still like, yeah, I can get this done.
21:12
And like you said, shooting from the hip, turt, I'm like,
21:15
that's a badass moment from from Shepherd. Yeah, a few snap zooms would
21:21
have been nice. Yeah, I reckon there was a part where they were
21:27
tying his feet up. Don't you reckon that this Like he wouldn't be able
21:30
to get tied up with the shield. There was a lot of inconsistencies there,
21:36
like at one point the shield's active and he reaches into his jacket pocket
21:40
to pull out the money bag to give to Ponytail guy and things like that.
21:45
He couldn't get away with that. Yeah. The only time it was
21:48
I think cleverly done was when all the Raiders and Colier had Lucius in the
21:53
bar, like in that scene before you realize that there's just the campiest stick
21:59
of dynamite with the fumes, you know, under the table. Everyone's being
22:03
served drinks. They're all being serve steins of beer. There's one served to
22:07
Lucius, and Richard kind at no point picks it up and drinks it because
22:11
he couldn't because this shield was active, because otherwise the guys would have killed
22:15
him. Yeah. See, I I took it as like the even the
22:18
taking out of his pocket, like as you know, what's reaching into his
22:22
jacket or his own hands, his hands got the protection on it. It's
22:25
sort of like like I didn't have a problem with that. And even with
22:27
a drink like him holding that drink, would that have not put the protection
22:30
thing around? Rodney couldn't do it, And yeah, Ronnie had that personal
22:34
shield. Yeah, you'd have to watch like episode two or three or whatever
22:37
it is. And there was a lot of like Rodney was worried about not
22:40
being able to wipe his own ass or take a ship, you know what
22:42
I mean. Back to He's like I don't even want to think about other
22:47
bodily functions, talking about how his ship would just fill up to his knees.
22:51
Yeah that's right. Yeah, poop planet, you gotta wear a pool
22:55
suit. Yeah, walking around like you get some brown pet It smells Jane
23:02
so Bob from Dogma when there's that that ship demon that comes out of But
23:07
like, yeah, I think to your point, both of you that when
23:11
no were walking back from the gate that was taken over by Colia's men and
23:15
they were trying to come up with a plan, and it's like, why
23:19
don't you jump on my back? And that's not going to work, Like,
23:22
it's not going to protect you if you just sort of attach yourself to
23:25
me. So it's like, well then yeah, that would rule the beer
23:29
Stein out just being able to touch something else. But then even the jacket,
23:32
I thought, Okay, They're like, clearly the women were giving him
23:36
a foot rub that was working. That was fine, But was that active
23:40
then well no, because that was before Colia showed up our team and l
23:44
but I just took it as like something I took the whole thing is something
23:48
he never switched off. Yeah, well yeah, apparent in the audio commentary,
23:52
Yeah, because Rodney couldn't take his off, right, did they explain
23:55
that in this, Yeah, Lucius was in more control of his. He
23:57
could because remember because it's a bad plot because you to remember at the end
24:03
he gives it to John. Yeah, and John survives, you know,
24:06
being shot by everybody. So you know, Lucius has more control over his.
24:10
I guess maybe because it's filled with more energy or he knows a bit
24:14
more or better, like does he have the he got the gene, he
24:18
got the gene therapy, that's right, yeah, last episode, yeah,
24:21
oh yeah. In the in the commentary, Martin Wood said something about they
24:26
actually had a conversation about like at certain points they were going to not have
24:30
the light on on his thing to show you that, yeah, it wasn't
24:34
on, but they didn't want to have to telegraph it too much where it
24:37
would power up, power up, power down, so they kind of just
24:41
let it do its own thing. Yeah, okay, So, which I
24:42
think, yeah, confuse the plot even more. I would have liked it
24:45
if Collier, after realizing he couldn't shoot Richard kind is that they did bury
24:51
him in a grave. Yeah, and then but like I feel like if
24:55
you had that shield, it leads air in, so I think it's still
24:59
let in, like you wouldn't get obviously you wouldn't get choked in your mouth.
25:03
Yeah, their would still come in. And then he climbs out.
25:07
Well you know what I mean. It comes back as like a because it
25:12
was clever though, because because Coli you did have that lime where he goes,
25:15
well, you would survive, like the weight. The weight wouldn't crush
25:22
you like the weight of of you know, six feet of soil wouldn't crush
25:25
your body, but you would you would suffocate. Yeah, but he doesn't
25:30
know that. Yeah, that's true. He's just you know, and then
25:33
he just goes kill bill it. Yeah, I mean it. And if
25:37
Uma Thurman can climb out of a six foot yeah, it's just such a
25:42
cold threat to like he's like, you know, we're going to bury you,
25:47
and you know, the weight drowning was cool. I like the drowning.
25:52
Yeah, the weight didn't he push him in the water though, to
25:59
him being brought out of the well the first time, the barrels barrel water.
26:02
Sorry, yeah, the well barrels. And then he's like, oh
26:04
yeah, see that protects you, but you still need to breathe, and
26:07
I'm like, oh, yeah, you can't. It's kind of useless now
26:10
because maybe they're just yeah, because I felt like if you have a personal
26:14
shield like that and a bullet doesn't deflect, why with someone's hand pushing you
26:18
move the shield? Well yeah, I mean the same way. Interesting point
26:23
when people come up with punch him in the face and that wouldn't that wouldn't
26:26
move him. So like if he didn't want to be moved, why would
26:29
he be moved? I like, the water is fine, it's like,
26:33
yeah, okay, I get that that might escape through with like if it's
26:36
designed that the elements will like you got your water, like obviously the air's
26:38
got to come in for him to breathe. But yeah, surely if he
26:41
didn't want to be moved, because otherwise once that happened, and then if
26:44
you're if you're suffocating from the water, then you can't drink. He wasn't.
26:51
I don't know. Yeah, he wasn't stuffoating from the water. It
26:52
was just there was no air. He wasn't he wasn't actively taking in any
26:56
water while he was being drowned. There was just no oxygen for him to
27:00
breathe in. But there is oxygen water, that's how fish survive, right.
27:03
It filtrated. This shield was for fish because of seconds. That's a
27:10
bad design. If you fall into a puddle and you die, you suffocate.
27:17
Yeah yeah, you can pass out from one too many beers and pass
27:18
out in it and drown an inch of water. Yeah exactly. Yeah,
27:22
you don't need a field for that. I like, you can drown.
27:26
He could get like weighted boots and fall into the ocean and he wouldn't drown
27:30
on the ocean. He would just suffocate from no air, which is like
27:33
crazy, And that's what That's what I loved like about that threat was that
27:37
it wasn't even like I'm going to bury you and you're going to die.
27:40
It was like I could bury you and the weight wouldn't kill you, but
27:44
your lack of oxy it's a very fascinating device you're wearing like he was.
27:47
He was threatening him with that. He's actually more interest in it from science.
27:51
And then it like at the end where that was the fire and he
27:55
comes out sort of like as if he was cooking, but he wasn't smoking.
27:57
He's like, this device fascinates me more and more every time. And
28:02
I like that You're not menacing when you're saying that, But I'm actually more
28:04
scared of you at the fact that you're just fascinated by the yaird at Yeah,
28:10
yeah, weirdly, at no point did call you go I want that,
28:14
you think once he encountered Lucius, given that for the longest time,
28:18
like he's like, I know John's here on the planet somewhere, but I
28:22
don't know where he's eluding me. So if I was Lucius, wouldn't sorry,
28:26
if I was Collier would be like, I'm gonna do whatever I can.
28:30
I'm going to commit every resource I have to try and figuring out how
28:33
to take this thing off this guy so that I can wear it, and
28:37
then I will absolutely win against John. You know what I mean, considering
28:41
that every time we've met Collier, it's, oh, he wants Jumpers,
28:42
he wants Atlantis, he wants you know, he's he wants the upper hand
28:47
on all these things. Here's this, you know, this ancient shield staring
28:52
at him with this annoying fucker in, you know, and he did nothing
28:56
about it. I wonder if he could go through the eye IRUs. Probably
29:00
not, but the shield Iris Atlantis, Yeah, probably not, but it
29:08
would be yeah, like you would think, Okay, maybe those both of
29:12
those shields are on, Like the same frequency, so you could like his
29:17
shield would disrupt that shield and he could just walk through it. Yeah,
29:21
but then he's still in molecules, so yeah, yeah, there would be
29:25
enough re integrate. Yeah, because the shield and the Actually that's interesting.
29:30
If you're wearing a personal shield and you walk through the puddle, would you
29:33
actually be demateialized or would you just walk through the other side of the Oh
29:36
my god, and you just fly through that. We fixed origins. She
29:45
was wearing an ancient shield the time, Catherine, you did it. I
29:55
love that you played that audio because that leads into the one piece of audio
29:59
was able to g for this episode that I figured we really need to discuss
30:03
Joe and Paul know better than this. No, at least, my hero
30:07
is human. McKay's is Batman? You selling them a bitch? Batman's human?
30:11
Is he just one of those people? I mean, you should know,
30:15
he absolutely should know. But I think he means a real life person.
30:18
That's yeah, because John was saying his his hero was evil evil.
30:22
Yeah, yeah, okay, but it's like, you're a writer, you
30:26
should know, you should know semantics, and my hero is real, real
30:32
Yeah, he's a real, personal person, not human. Like you don't
30:36
say you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't like that you
30:40
were pull up like the other that mutual friend of ours. It used to
30:42
work here at the station, James, and he he was a big Superman
30:47
guy and he couldn't understand that he's Batman's on a superhero. I'm like,
30:51
well he is. He he hasn't got super bowers and if you're going to
30:52
get start like that, but yeah, I don't know if I mean we
30:56
should we should reach out him and see what he thought about that line from
31:00
was it BVS or was it the flash where the flash was like watch Superpower
31:03
and he's like, I'm rich Justice League Justice Yeah. We should ask him
31:07
about yeah yeah, and he'd be like, not his superpower said something.
31:15
He has a two hundred IQ or something and he's the greatest detective in the
31:18
world and also super rich. Right, this is where this is like for
31:22
me, Pete Rodney, I don't know what it is. Everything everything he
31:27
says, I'm like, I love this, especially next week we'll talk about
31:33
that. Oh yeah, or even like the idea that a guy that's so
31:37
reality based, you know, right, it's tangible stuff. You know.
31:41
He doesn't like any of the I can't. I can't imagine you'd be able
31:45
to sit down and really talk to him about faith in God and things.
31:47
It's like, no, what can I reach out and touch? You know,
31:49
be on the SG one stuff, of course, but what can you
31:52
reach out and touch what's real base? And he doesn't have time for anything
31:55
else that's a distraction from achieving a goal and making himself better and more famous
32:00
and more well known and loved. And that his hero is Batman. Like
32:04
I get that he loves him because he's a smart guy, but that he
32:07
would devote enough of his time even as a child, but then retain it
32:10
as an adult to go, yeah, Batman's my hero. And also he
32:14
yeah, and he's here and superpowers his genius. Yeah. If anything,
32:17
you think McKay would be more of a fan of Lex Luthor. Yeah yeah,
32:22
yeah, who wasn't allowed to allow someone I wasn't about to allow someone
32:27
like Superman. Yeah, and his abilities to get in the way of a
32:30
guy whose superpower was his brain. Yeah yeah. Yeah, Like Lex Luthor
32:35
is to McKay as like Superman is to Shepherd, you know what I mean?
32:37
Like I just couldn't like when they got back to the gate, and
32:42
you know, Colier busts through on the mic and says, hey, the
32:45
gates, my men have taken it, so you better just come back otherwise
32:47
I start killing your friends. Now, if he believed it, that's why
32:51
he went back, great, But if he was close enough to the gate
32:53
that he could have went through grabbed a jumper like the team back under Colier's
32:59
cap too said that he would do. I in that moment, went,
33:02
oh, well, just get old mate Lucius to take off the device,
33:07
give it to Sheppard he's already carrying around his machine gun, and just walk
33:09
up and kill all Collies men. Done, go through the gate, come
33:14
back with a puddle jumper, and you know you've you've you've fixed it.
33:17
You're done. And they're like, no, we've got to go back.
33:20
And they spend all this time on the way back, I mean for the
33:23
audience's benefit, but also there was a lot of time devoted about now we
33:28
can't we build a tunnel? Can I swing from a clock tet? Can't
33:32
can I? Yeah? All the different plans and even Shepherds that's not going
33:36
to work, blah blah blah, And I'm like, what are they trying?
33:37
To divert us too, because the obvious answer is to give that thing
33:42
to Shepherd. Yeah, into the commentary, the episode was short, and
33:45
that was that was all improvised. Okay, see I took it on the
33:49
day that the scene where Lucius goes into the townspeople and like inspires them to
33:57
inspire themselves. Yeah, that it probably only went on for a minute,
34:00
but that to me really dragged on, and I was like, oh,
34:05
this is the scene that got lengthened because the episode was short. And I
34:08
don't know that I've ever felt that way before, like in any SGA or
34:13
SG one episode yet have I As I've been watching it identified and you're telling
34:17
me now I'm wrong, and I'm like, yeah, that's fine. It
34:20
was the other one that makes just as much sense. But maybe because it
34:22
was our two main, you know, two lead actors, that I didn't
34:25
really notice it as much. But well it was funny also one of them.
34:30
Yeah, it just really it just felt like I'm like, ah,
34:32
yeah, this is just I get what you're trying to go for. And
34:35
it was funny too that Lucius was like, Hey, it's not about me,
34:38
You've got to do it yourselves. Guys, you've got to do it
34:39
yourselves, and yeah, we can do it. Hang and then they done.
34:43
Sometimes you need me though, like sometimes you do need me, So
34:46
I kind of like that. He's like his ego got in the way of
34:50
him doing what he was supposed to do. But the big reveal that oh
34:52
my god, Shepherd's wearing the thing, and I'm like, cool, he
34:55
should have done it ten minutes ago. Yeah, when he was at the
34:58
gate, and he could have went through and got the whole platoon of people
35:01
and brought back three partal jumping I've got I've got written down here, I've
35:06
Good to Be King two point zero. Yeah, Like it's just the LaMeer
35:08
version of that. All it needed was that one brunette chick for Good to
35:10
Be King going oh con oh god, lucious, Lucious, Like yeah with
35:17
that top. Yeah please. You listened to the audio coming to Maddy,
35:22
Was there anything and to explain why Carson was in this episode? Ah?
35:27
Yes, So apparently that was to save time because if it was just the
35:32
four of it, yeah, I know, right, but it was just
35:36
to save the process of Okay, if the if the main team went there.
35:40
He realized that it was Lucius. Then they would have had to have
35:44
been a beat where they sent for Beckett to then come later. So they
35:47
said, I will just write it so that he comes with them. Yeah,
35:52
I know, I thought the same thing. It was just Beckett here
35:54
and that stupid line he had. We're like, we're like, yeah,
35:57
they're talking tactical stuff. And then Beckett was like, well, if you
36:00
want my heartfelt recommendation, and I'm like, shut the fuck up, go
36:04
steal some shoes, your stupid idiot, Like, oh, all we need
36:10
for the worst episode to starget ever is just Landry and Beckett just together.
36:15
Beck It's fine, Oh no, I can't Landry and we're you don't want
36:20
how dah? How annoying was we're in this episode? Bitch? She had
36:27
like one line, and you know what, I think we may may even
36:31
just have to maybe maybe we use her line, that her one line of
36:37
this episode. No, I just say we use it every time, even
36:39
if we just every time we have an Atlantics episode, we just use it
36:44
as some type of cold open, just better than just for Brendan, just
36:47
this one. Yeah, and it goes into a little stargate bed. It's
36:53
fine, So we can just have her cold the gate. Yeah, every
36:59
time, so that I can get there that every time. Every time Brendan
37:05
and I start having an argument about we up, Mitch plays that, John,
37:09
John, that's to wrap it up boys, you know, yeah,
37:12
it's this. It plays this. That's a raino in boys the Gate.
37:21
Sorry. Maybe when we go off on a tangent on non Stargate stuff and
37:24
we go the gate, it's like, okay, bring us back to stuff.
37:27
Yeah, we're being the wet blanket calling. Or it can be whoever
37:30
wins the argument in your eyes and you play that convinced you you can play
37:37
be the new version of RESHI father made you rong versus you stupid a bitch
37:39
thing? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but that was one person could
37:44
be two things. Here it's two people can only but one of them could
37:45
be one thing. I don't make a good point. It's John. I
37:51
want that kind of responsibility. Actually, I have to find it for Jacob
37:55
did recommend something other We need to bring back the Mitch bitch which we need
38:00
to use that. He said we had to use that for something too.
38:02
He gave us a great idea for that. I start going off on a
38:06
tangent no that's what we need that you're drifting. You're drifting. Trust me,
38:10
if I had control over that button, the amount of times I'll be
38:13
able to play that'd be fantastic. I noticed something weird. The guy that
38:19
was drowning Lucius had a different uniform to everybody else. It was weird that
38:23
the Jani were back in the uniforms because I feel like in the last Collie
38:29
episode, wasn't Colie rock around like a big, long, like black trench
38:31
coat and they were all just like wearing civilian gear now because they weren't officially
38:37
working with the Jani anymore. Yeah, But then this time they rock up
38:43
and they're all wearing the old school Jani uniforms for some reason. But they're
38:47
all kind of that weird green color and have kind of that that coppery brown
38:52
piping around everything, like the highlighting, like the buttons and the yeah,
38:55
you know, it's like it's like a really deep, deep navy greeny gray
38:59
color. And then like all the piping is kind of like that orange copying.
39:05
Yeah maybe, but then the one guy that was drowning Lucius, all
39:12
his piping was yellow. It was really weird, and I was like,
39:19
why just him. It didn't make it didn't make any sense to me.
39:23
It was like he was he was not probation, but he was like,
39:28
oh yeah, like a ring was that the ugly ponytail guy? No,
39:31
no, no, because he didn't wear a uniform at all of them,
39:34
because he was like they were like their own little band of mercenaries or whatever.
39:39
They did say they used to be like Cowan's elite guard or whatever.
39:44
Okay, but then when uh, he's got a gold trim. Yeah,
39:47
but then when old mate, Yeah, yeah, that does really stand out.
39:52
Now, Yeah, I guess because I was watching it on my computer
39:55
to monitor up close, you know, when I was to that way to
40:00
grab audio stuff. But yeah, it just stood out to me. I
40:01
was like, why is he wearing yellow and everyone else's kind of orange brown?
40:05
Must be the lieutenant or whatever, second in charge. Its prime he
40:10
to stargate people. It's just a weird, random sort of thing to throw
40:14
in, you know. Yes, yeah, I didn't get that one.
40:15
It was the first prime of that makes sense. On COLI, how do
40:20
we feel about like his emergence, because as he says about wanting wanting things,
40:24
whether he's wanting weapons or his endgame, is to take back control away
40:29
from Redeem Yeah and Co. He wants to take that back. It's it's
40:34
his people. He wants to take ownership and leadership again. That's his endgame,
40:39
and whenever we see him pop up, it's something to do with that.
40:43
He wants information, he wants technology, he wants to kill Redeem in
40:47
the like in the last episode handing him over or I kill one of your
40:51
people, whereas here, okay, it was kind of a means to an
40:53
end, but really the only reason that he came out of hiding was to
40:59
kill Shepherd, and I kind I like, I think, I like that,
41:01
Like I like that. There's just this one guy that just pissed so
41:06
bad it's Risks. He had it. Yeah, yeah, literally had it.
41:09
And that's the weirdest thing. The whole the whole reason we started having,
41:14
you know, battled with the Jeni is because they wanted to steal the
41:16
stuff that we had so that they could fight the Wraith in a different way
41:20
that we than we fight the Wraith. And now it's kind of just evolved
41:23
into this COLDI doesn't seem to care about it anymore. He still, like
41:27
I said, he still wants all our tech, and he wants all these
41:29
things. He wants a jumper, you know, all these things. He
41:30
still wants to kill John, but he wants to kill John so that then
41:35
he can go back to killing the Wraith. Like so I feel it's just
41:38
about power for him. He just wants as much as he can get.
41:43
But it's like when we met him in the Storm in the Eye, like
41:45
he didn't seem like the kind of guy that wanted to usurp the throne pie.
41:52
Yeah, he was doing it for his people because yeah, then native
41:57
to the galaxy when he thought they had right because they're the highest pecking order
42:01
of Yeah, it's like left in the galaxy, which in some respect I
42:07
could agree with that, Yeah, but you know then it's like sudden found
42:09
the ninth che eat Masks, Yeah exactly, And you know McKay exists in
42:16
this galaxy, so clearly he's not the smartest. But yeah, just forel
42:21
weird because it's like, Okay, he was serving Cowen when he took control
42:24
of the lands in the Storm in the Eye. I totally buy all the
42:28
you know, the axis to grind against Shepherd, but it's like, okay,
42:34
so once he kills Shepherd, then what then he's gonna go and try
42:37
and kill Redeem and then he's going to like if he does have you know,
42:43
I can't see him wanting to lead the Jani. He'd probably put another
42:47
muppet in charge, like as the you know, as the Figure had in
42:51
charge, and he'd be pulling the strings behind the scenes. But it's like,
42:53
but then he's still just go back to trying to get back to Atlantis
42:59
to steal all the the ZPMs pms and the jumpers and all these things to
43:04
give them a tactical advantage to kill the Wraith. Yeah. Yeah, so
43:07
just it's just it's very much has because remember it was, like I guess
43:10
the second time, because the first time we saw Collier was the Storm and
43:15
the Eye. Then the second time was the Brotherhood when we were like down
43:17
in the pit trying to find the zz PM and all that kind of thing.
43:22
So it's like they will they were after that as well. Episodes.
43:25
Oh, I think the last one was probably the weakest, well not this
43:30
one, but yeah, probably this one out of all of them. Yeah,
43:34
yeah, because I guess it became more about John and the Wraith,
43:37
and I guess moving forward that you know, that's a thread that they pick
43:40
up. Yeah, but it just it just sucks that he went out this
43:44
way. Even apparently Robert Darvey wasn't really happy either. He was like coming
43:49
up with the ways. He's like, well, here's here's my here's my
43:51
thing on how Collier survived. Well, it didn't. They didn't need to
43:55
kill him off. No, I don't feel no, well not especially in
43:59
that scenario. Yeah, like why like and they didn't say anything the commentary
44:04
about you know, obviously Robert Dovey still wanted to be doing this, not
44:07
he was becoming unavailable to them. So I just don't understand he as much
44:13
as I hate the JENNI he him being kind of an offshoot of the Jeni.
44:17
Yeah, he's much more better than redeem He deems like boring, that's
44:23
all, Yeah, because that's all the political intrigue kind of stuff. Whereas
44:27
Collier was always just a you know, he was his own thing. He
44:30
was unpredictable, he didn't know what his his true motives were, and that
44:36
made him a really great villain. Maybe they just got sick of being like,
44:38
well, he can't get away every time. But I mean I feel
44:42
like, given the option, Yeah, yeah, exactly. They did it
44:45
for what four seas, five seasons or whatever. I just think given the
44:49
option between this episode and the last time we saw Collier, I would have
44:52
preferred that Collie got killed by the Wraith, then better. Yeah, if
45:00
it was even if John didn't get to do it, or even if John
45:01
had a chance to can't I think no, because John probably would have rescued
45:06
him. But even if it was, like what if, what if Collier
45:10
was the one that the Wraith fed on to get the energy to then put
45:15
it into old man Shepherd to give you know, yeah, like that that
45:21
would have been better. Yeah, because then you Shepherd, Yeah yeah,
45:24
and then Shepherd also would have been like, ill do I have like like
45:28
Collier STDs? Now, yeah, you got a touch of something. He
45:36
just starts getting acne and just like cars and stuff, walks there a little
45:42
bit of a beer belly. Yeah. Did that belt appear out of nowhere?
45:46
The he had a green belt in the shootout? Oh really with a
45:52
yeah, with the whole ster And I can't remember if that was earlier because
45:54
it's like very it's not it doesn't look at all like his uniform, and
46:00
like I know that when the fake Raiders first showed up and they were holding
46:05
up a gun and all that, and I'm like, okay, it's like
46:07
pistol esque, but it's not quite is it the round one? Oh?
46:12
No, that was one that Colia shot him with late or tried to shoot
46:14
him with later. Oh And that was the other thing too that didn't really
46:15
have any resolution, is col You're like when when Ponytail failed, Colie just
46:21
like pulled out his gun to shoot him and clicked as if it was empty,
46:24
and Ponytail took that as oh, thank you for sparing my life.
46:29
And then once he walks away, Collie goes, I'll get this gun fixed.
46:31
And I was like, I almost would have liked it if those other
46:36
Jeni were like turned outside or something like that, and they turned against Colier
46:42
as well when the townspeople did. Because even like you're saying before me,
46:45
like the whole the rousing thing of you know, the town standing up for
46:49
themselves didn't really go anywhere either. In the end, like they all came
46:52
out and went, we're gonna stand up for it, and they all just
46:54
point a gun to them and went put your stupid friggin pitchforks down and then
46:59
John and Colia had their They're one on one and then it was over.
47:01
So even that didn't really go anywhere either. It was still just a lot
47:05
of weird little vignettes of scenes that just didn't really all go together. So
47:08
is he carrying around like an earth gun? Is that what? Like?
47:15
No, that's the gun that he was holding in the shootout about to draw,
47:19
and that's that's like that's a that's an earth bounce. That's you can
47:22
see Daniel Jackson wearing. Yeah, and I'm just like a bit disappointed when
47:25
I see ship like that, Like it's one thing that you've got a hole.
47:28
So that's exactly the right side was wearing it the whole time. Wow,
47:32
Like SG one Green, the gun that he shot Ponytail with was almost
47:37
like a setated weapon. It was kind of had that round, the big
47:40
round thing with you know the little handguns, and that's definitely not that gun.
47:45
So, yeah, you're right, that was another lame thing. They
47:49
did great to have Richard Kine back, but I love Richard Kine. I
47:53
just think it was too soon for him. And yeah, you don't.
47:57
You don't put Collier and Richard Kine in an episode together unless you could do
48:00
it before and just have Collier become fascinated with him or you know, or
48:06
confused by him or frustrated with him. But I think Colier just he was
48:09
Robert Darvey just played Collier as Collier, yeah, and didn't really see Lucius
48:15
as I think the roadblock that he could have been. Yeah, imagine if
48:21
Lucius was the one that kept getting Imagine if there was five instances during this
48:23
whole episode where John was gonna die, like Colier had one, he had
48:30
the bullet ready to go shot it at John's and Lucius was the one that
48:34
stepped in to save it. And it's like, imagine if Lucius kept getting
48:37
the way of Colier, you know, killing John, and the frustration that
48:40
would have built up there because Colier couldn't do anything to Lucius, Like,
48:45
yeah, that would have been nothing more interesting. I think were they trying
48:47
to make him like an ergo or a come try a boy, because it
48:52
was like obviously that he doesn't come back, right, you never seen him.
48:57
No, this is it. This is it for Colier and this is
48:59
it for Lucius. Done and dusted, and it just seems like I wish
49:04
Atlantis did more of what SG one did in the early days, like fine,
49:07
because they like they have a Jen. To me, Jeni is similar
49:10
to the n I D like, just who cares bad guy. And then
49:15
they've got the Wraith, which is awesome, similar to the Gold. But
49:19
then they get the replicators. It's like, why can't you just find a
49:22
different synthetic synthetic robot people, It's a different galaxy. And then yeah,
49:28
imagine if it was a bunch of races, you know what I mean.
49:30
And when we and Reese, like the robot that Reese was, Imagine if
49:36
she originated from the Atlantis galaxy or something like that, and we found her
49:38
people and we got and we explored more of her origins versus Yeah, these
49:45
these Atlantis human form replication because it's like they feel like they they got rid
49:52
of the replicators beautifully in SG one, they didn't need to bring them back.
49:54
Yeah. Yeah, yet, I guess it's I guess the the one
49:59
thing I'll get give to all the writers and stuff. It's like, well,
50:00
they've been ending the show since like season six, you know, so
50:04
I guess they will get to a certain point They're like, we've just been
50:07
renewed for another season. What we go back to one. We've just killed
50:10
off all our bad guys. What are we you know? Is it worth
50:15
trying to create something else that might have longevity? Women still go back to
50:19
bad Guy the week like SQ one was originally. Yeah, absolutely, at
50:22
least at first use. Some of those early ones are so good man.
50:25
Yeah yeah, and they just trying just a little standalone man. Yeah,
50:30
they're amazing. I couldn't I couldn't leave without giving you guys this. I
50:37
had a look at the IDB reviews for this episode. Scathing, scathing,
50:43
so many one stars, one stars, three stars. My favorite was my
50:49
favorite. One goes one, same story over and over. My god,
50:52
these writers are horrible. That sentence covered it all, but was too short,
50:57
so I added this sentence, Hope it makes it long enough. Yeah,
51:00
did you write that? Get into Gate? Get into Gate, Stargate
51:09
podcast, Get into it now before it's too late.