Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BPS 393: David Fincher & The Art of Cinematography with Oscar Nominee Jeff Cronenweth

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BPS 393: David Fincher & The Art of Cinematography with Oscar Nominee Jeff Cronenweth · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the IFAH podcast Network. For more
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  Speaker 1: amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifagpodcastnetwork dot com.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number three ninety three.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: If I could be anyone, it would be Brad Pitt David.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Fincher broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: we really should be working on that next draft. It's
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and business
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: I am your.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Humble host, Alex Ferrari. Now, today's show is sponsored by
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  Speaker 2: Bulletproof Script Coverage. Now. Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof
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  Speaker 2: Script Coverage actually focuses on the kind of project you
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  Speaker 2: head on over to covermiscreenplay dot Com. Well guys, Today
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: on the show we have Oscar nominated cinematographer Jeff Kronaweth,
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: and Jeff just happens to be the DP of one
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  Speaker 2: of my top three films of all time, Fight Club.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: He has also worked on some other films you might
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: have heard of, Catherine Bigelow's K nineteen, The Widow Maker,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: One Hour Photo with the late great Robin Williams, The
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Social Network which is in my opinion asterpiece, The Girl
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: with the Dragon Tattoo, Hitchcock Gone Girl, and the new
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  Speaker 2: film by writer director Aaron Sorkin being the ricardos. I
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  Speaker 2: cannot tell you what a thrill it was to geek
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: out with Jeff about how he lit these some iconic films,
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  Speaker 2: how he was working with Fincher and Sorkin and so
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: many other of his amazing collaborators and how he got
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: his start in the business kind of meant being mentored
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  Speaker 2: by his father, John Coronoweth, who happens to be the
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  Speaker 2: cinematographer of Blade Runner, just to name a few. Jeff
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: tells the stories of how he was on the set
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: of Blade Runner as a teenager trying to absorb as
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: much as he could. He has lit some iconic music
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  Speaker 2: videos for Mariah Carey, George Michael, and so much more.
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  Speaker 2: And I also wanted to give a shout out to
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  Speaker 2: indie film Hustle Tribe member Jimmy Mattlos who was able
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: to connect me and Jeff for this episode, So thank you, Jimmy.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: I have an absolute ball talking to Jeff on this episode.
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  Speaker 2: So without any further ado, please enjoy my conversation with
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  Speaker 2: Jeff Coronerweth. I like to welcome to the show, Jeff
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Coroner with how you doing, Jeff.
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: I'm excellent, Alex, thanks for having me on.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for being on the show.
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: Man.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: I've I've been a fan of yours for a long
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: time because I am a lens geek. I'm a DP
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: geek in the sense of out look things look and
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: stuff like that and I've studied your work as a
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: director and as a colorist for a long, long, long time,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: especially the work you've done with music videos, your stuff
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: with Fincher, your stuff with Romanick, Romanic Race is Mark Rouminick,
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: I pronounce it right, all that kind of stuff. So
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: before we jump in the weeds with you, man, how
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: did you get started the business?
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: Well, true nepotism if you will, But longer story than that.
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  Speaker 3: My great grandfather owned a camera store in Pittsburgh. My
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: grandfather was a portrait still photographer for the studios on
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: staff at Columbia well throughout his career various studios, But
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: they used to have an Oscar category for still photography.
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: You know, you have to put yourself in.
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: That era and realize, like the technology prevented him to
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  Speaker 3: from taking pictures next to us on set like people
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: do nowadays. And so they had their own sets and
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: directed the talent and built the sets, and that was
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: the sole source of publicity for you know, the entire movie.
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: So there was more weight on that, and so he
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: won an Oscar for the action still photographer. He a
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: picture of Judy Garland and Mickey Rooney in nineteen forty
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: one and then my father, who is Jordan Croney Weth
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: shot Blade Runner amongst blad Runner, Peggy's who got my
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: altered state state of grace, you know, and then including
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: Oh Father music video with Fincher and Rattle on Hum
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: with Philo Juuanu. And so I always had been around
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: it from early age, you know, visiting the set and
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: just loved the camaraderie and the kind of common goal
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: of accomplishing or overcoming that day's complications.
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: And it just seemed like a great team creative sport
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: to me.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: And I didn't know what I wanted to do, but
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: I knew I wanted to do something in it. You know.
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: It's like every morning they went to war, and every
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: day at the end of the day they came back
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: and kind of celebrated the victory of that day. So
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: it was intriguing to me, and so I followed in
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: his footsteps, you know. I went to I started junior college,
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: and there was an opportunity with the goal of going
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: to USC Film School, and there was an opportunity to
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: get into the Union. So my dad called and said,
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: stop going to school right now, I'll come join. It
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: was very difficult in those days to get in, and
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: so I went and worked for about two years as
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: a staff loader at a commercial company in Hollywood. The
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: debate at the moment in our family at that time
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: was he was about to start Blade Runner. I was
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: nineteen years old. It was a very high scrutinized movie.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: It was the only going on in town, really Scott's
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: first movie in the United States.
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: There was all kinds of tensions on the set.
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: It was a lot of nights wet, you know, and
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: he thought that it was a crapshoot if I went.
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: For that, that I would get into the IA.
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: Instead, he said, your better chances are of going working
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: at this staff as a staff loader at this company,
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  Speaker 3: and if no one's available in thirty days, you get
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: in and then you learn all about camera gear and
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: that stuff. So I didn't do Blade Runner, but quite honestly,
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: you know, at nineteen that movie was really a handful,
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  Speaker 3: and I think I instead, I ended up like prepping
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  Speaker 3: five camera shows a day for commercials of different packages and.
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  Speaker 4: Different gear and EPs.
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  Speaker 3: And you know, of course, what I would love to
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: have had a later run around my resume. Instead, I
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: just went after work every day and watched until I
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  Speaker 3: got tired and went home.
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  Speaker 2: So you actually were you were on the set, You
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: were actually hanging out watching you father work.
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: I was on SEC as much as I could.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was working in Studio City and they were
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: a Warner run on the back lot, so it was
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: quite close. And then and then after I got in
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: and after worked for a year, I went back to
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: college and graduated from film school at USC and in
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: my class was Phil Juanna, Robert Brinkman, John Schwartzman. You
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: can go on, but there was a few of us
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: that all stayed friends. Three of us became dps. Phil
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: went on to direct and he directed a movie that
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: you know, my dad shot State of Grace, amazing looking,
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: authentic looking movie for that period. And then I worked
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: for Phil for years after that, you know, shooting commercials
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: and music videos and all kinds of things. So I
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: kind of went that, and then I went the craftsman route,
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: you know, like it's a great segue, because Robert and
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: Robert Brankman and John Schwartzman came out and music videos
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: just starting to materialize, and so they shot a lot
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: of corporate movie industrial as we called them, sure and
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: learned learned by making their own mistakes, but actually shooting,
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: I did it the other way. I was a film loader,
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: and then I was a second assistant, and then I
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: was a first assistant.
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  Speaker 4: Then I was a camera operator. But the sets I
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: was working.
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  Speaker 3: On were the biggest sets going on at the time,
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: you know, So I watched or the idea was that
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: I would watch masters solve problems. I wish I paid
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: more attention later.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: But ain't that Ain't that the truth?
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  Speaker 3: I was like, oh man, how would he have solved
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: this problem? Uh? And, so you know, I had a
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: had a great I worked with with my dad, of course,
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: and John Tole uh and and Laslow and Gordon Willis
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: and Haskell and and Vilmosh and I did eight movies
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  Speaker 3: with sen Nyquist and uh and they all they all
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: had different styles and different personalities, but they all had
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: the same kind of low key, not insecure listen to
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: anybody that had a good idea, wasn't threatened, great camaraderie
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: on the set, great control and set management. And so
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  Speaker 3: I was very fortunate to learn and watch all of them.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: Ironically, Schwartzman and Brinkman probably beat me by a couple
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: of years until I was shooting the same size movies
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: that they were shooting. But we all got to the
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: same place. So, you know, I guess at the end
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: of that long story, there's not really one way better
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: than the other way. For me, I think we're individuals.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: For me, I needed to mature more and watch and
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: learn slowly, But there is no replacement for hands on
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: doing it yourself.
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: So it's a combination of both.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's also there's a lost art of
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: the apprentice. I mean the apprentice. I mean that's the
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: only way when I was coming up in the nineties,
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: I mean that's how I learned. I was on set.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: I was learning behind someone who had done it before.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: And there is still that obviously in the camera department specifically,
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: but it's not as is not the apprenticeship is not
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: something that is as done as much as it used
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: to be. It's it's kind of like a lost art
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: almost like all this. I mean you just laid out
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: years of work, you know, working a couple of years
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: in a camera shop. The amount of knowledge you got
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: about those film cameras back then, I mean when you
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: finally got on set, you were like, yeah, I know that,
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: I know that, I know how to do that. And
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: because you've done it all but so many dps nowadays,
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: it just like, well, I got a red camera, I'm
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: a DP.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: And there is truth to that, but I fear there's
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: no history behind the choices being made.
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: Do you need it?
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: No? I suppose you can just make pretty pictures and
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: that's fine, but there's a lot of logic about where
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: where the industry came from, why we compose or photograph
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: things a certain way in continuity, which is a hard
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: thing to learn because it's really easy to shoot a
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: pretty master. It's really hard to do two days of
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: coverage of that master to make it look like that's
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: saying two minutes of time, but make each shot stand
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: out and be beautiful. And that's what separates the men
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: from the boys, or from the adults from the children,
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: if you will. And so that's something that that's harder
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: to deal with. And then you know, managing a crew
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: is a lot of being successful on the set and
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: dealing with studios and figuring out how to navigate through
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: the complexity of that and egos and personalities and and
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: and you know, getting what you need to get to
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: visually support the.
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: Movie the way you want to support it.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: So those are all things that I would not trade
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: for anything, and that I see could be something that's
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: more challenging for young filmmakers that don't go that route.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah said that said when I was when I went
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: to USC there was no internet and there was no
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: downloading cable, and there was no DVDs, and there was
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: no VHS's. I don't think.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: I mean there had to be vre they just started.
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: But what I'm what my point is, you had to
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: go to a place like that in order to see
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: all the classic movies and review them and talk about
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: them and dissect them. You couldn't just click on something
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: and watch a scene. It didn't exist. If you were lucky,
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: there might be a midnight show at some off off
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: you know, small theater in Hollywood and you can go
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: watch a classic film. And so learning that and that
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: history and that knowledge was something that today.
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: You can click on a movie, you can dissect that movie.
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: You can look at a particular scene that you want,
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: you can count the frames, you can analyze each train,
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: and usually there's a whole lot of discussion from either
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: the director or somebody else on the on the on
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: the show that describes what happened or why it happened
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: in those things. So in a way, you know, it
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: doesn't replace doing it yourself. That's the thing. Like, no
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: matter what you read or write or learn or watch,
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: you still got to make films, and you still got
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: a photograph, and you still got to try to cut
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: things together and find.
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: Out why it works and doesn't.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: But that was the reason that it was so important
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: at that time, and nowadays I think there's such a
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: enormous amount of resources available to filmmakers that it does
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: shortcut it some degree, right, Yeah.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Because I mean, yeah, I remember in the eighties there's
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: like there was nothing about filmmaking, like nothing. You couldn't
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: even you had the occasional Star Wars making of or
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: Raiders of the Lost Art making of vhs, and then
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: you had Criterion laser discs and that.
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: Was that was later the laser disc I'm talking.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: About like eighty eight to ninety two in that world
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: is when those came out. But in the early eighties,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: there was you got to go to libraries and go
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: like find books about what you or you apprenticed or
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: you apprenticed.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: And if you remember, there was like one bookstore in Hollywood.
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: I think it's ed bookstore Abe.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Oh god, yeah, yeah, French, French, French something French. Yeah,
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: it was over in Studio City. They just shut they
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: shut down a little while ago.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: It was an old one in Hollywood as well. There
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: was the one in Studio City off of Lankershon, which
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: is the one your Laurel Cannon, which you're.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Talking about exactly.
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And those had a plethora of of of dusty
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: film books that you can go and and learn about
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: you know a director that you you.
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: Know Fellini or like that.
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: Right right now now, you either just you download the
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: book on your iPad or you order the book on
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: Amazon or.
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: Whatever you do. And it's all right there your fingertips.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: So it's different, but still doing it, getting a camera
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: in your hand and doing.
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: It is ultimately what it is.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: It doesn't matter what the camera is, whether it's your
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: iPhone or a camera, it's still telling stories.
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: Starts there, and that's what.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: You gotta do now.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: One of your great collaborators of your career is mister
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: David Fincher, who I'm a huge, huge, huge fan of
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: mister Fincher and uh, yeah, he's he's Uh, he's our
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: generation's Kubrick in my opinion, and the way he makes
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: his films, specifically fight Club is anytime anyone asks me
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: my top three, fight Club's always on the on the
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: top of that list. I've had Jim Oole's on the
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: show who wrote fight Club? And I got to find out,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: first of all, how did you meet David? And you've
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: done a few things prior to your music, you did
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: a bunch of music videos as well, How did you
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: meet him? And what is the working relationship? Like how
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: do you work with David Fincher in nineteen ninety five
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: versus David Fincher gone girl?
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, those are all great questions. I met him fortunately
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: through my dad. We did we did a music video
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: called Oh Father with Madonna. It was the last video
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: on that album, and it was a black and white video.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: I remember it kind of alluded to a not great
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: relationship with a celebrity actor that we all knew, and
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: we met on that and then we did a couple
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: of commercials and one of them was at and t
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: all about what to expect in the future, and.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: I remember that. I remember that campaign.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and they just had like a twenty year or
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: thirty years Yeah. Yeah, I remember that relaunching of it
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: because it was so accurate. You know, it had an iPad,
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: a pad which we had never seen before. It wouldn't
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: come to fruition for another twenty years or fifteen years,
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: but we had a guy on an I with an
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: iPad on a beach in Saint Yes and a toll
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: booths that were operator list. You just had a censor and.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: I remember all these.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a shot of a baby monitor with a dad
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: somewhere else looking at the baby, and a classroom with
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: a computer and a projector that had the kids are
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: all working off of laptops. And it was really clever,
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: as you would expect with David. And they wanted to
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: shoot they could only afford to shoot it here in
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: Santa Monica at the beach scene, and he just felt
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: like it didn't have the waight to support the concept.
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: So he took me and then Ad and his producer
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: and we went to Saint John and and you know
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: he told me, well, let me go back one step
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: after the Madonna video. He gives he gives me a
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: call and goes, I need to shoot an insert of
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: Madonna's teeth with stitches and pearls dropping on the floor,
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: and Panavision said, they let us do it, and I
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: go great, and he goes meet me at Panavision at two.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: I go good, and he goes, bring your meters. I'm like,
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: what meters? I'm a focus buller, and so he goes,
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: this is what I want to do. Match your dad's light.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: And he left and I'm like, oh God, and I
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: lit it and it all cut in.
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: You know, it was great the way it all fit together.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: And then he asked me to shoot this thing in
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: Saint John with him. Then I shot a second union
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: on the game. I shot second Union on seven. I
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: was in London with my dad and him when we
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: started Aliens three, but the studio my dad had Parkinson's
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: disease and.
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: It was working right through it.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: And you know, truth be told, there was a lot
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: of animosity about foreigner being there at the time.
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: You know, the film industry was dead.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: They wanted it all, you know, crew from from London,
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: not just the not just the Brits. The production company
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: wanted it, Fox wanted it. Everybody wanted it all to
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: be local and so we went, and they felt as
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: the scale the movie got bigger, uh, he wouldn't be
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: able to keep up. So we got let go, and
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: David heartbroke and said, listen, if you guys aren't here,
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: it's just me. It's an easier arm wrestling match for
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: me because they don't have you to hold over my
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: head and.
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: And it'll just be me up against them.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: And so it was his first show and stuff, so
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: all those things were building a relationship, and then of
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: course the game and then uh, and then he called
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: me to He called me when he had fight Club.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: And said come come over. And I went over to
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: his house and he's like this, you know, Brad. Brad
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: jumped the wall the other night and knocked on my
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: door and said you got to read this book and
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: then sat there while while I read it. He wouldn't
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: even til I finished it. And so I think it's uh,
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: these are his words. I think it might be the
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: best movie he gets to act, and it will probably
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: be the best movie I direct. And it may not
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: make any movie. It may it may not make any money.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: But read this and tell me what you think and
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: if you're interested in shooting him, like the answer before
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: he finished the sentence. But of course I played it
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: like you would like okay, and you know, danced all
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: the way to my car and then read it, of
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: course and was in love with it. I didn't know
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: how we were going to shoot it. It was very
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: complicated script and so much going on. It is quite
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: overwhelming at first, and I think a lot of us
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: weren't one hundred percent confident in how it would be
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: received until it got closer to being finished, you know,
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: because it was such an interesting story, and David had
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: a he really had in his mind the tempo and
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: the cadence of b and and the nuances that that
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: were pushing boundaries that we were all like kind of like,
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's what you want, of course, because you
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: want to ruffle some feathers along the way, right.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: No, no question. But it's really interesting because I mean,
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: you know, talking to Jim, I mean, that is an
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: that's an unmakeable book. That's an it's it's an unadaptable book.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: First of all, so that the script was even made
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: is remarkable. Then the script is almost unfilmable. I mean
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: you read the Fight Club script, It's like, how and
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: then that you guys actually pulled it off in the
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: way that you did. I mean, it was, it was.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: It's a master work. And I remember when it came
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: out in the theater. I saw it in the theater and
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: it wasn't is a very well it is. It was
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: not as well received, and it didn't make a whole
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: lot of cash when it came out.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: It's funny we shot all these great commercials that were
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: as irreverent as the movie was. You know, like Brad
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: standing in a movie theater going in case of emergency,
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: the lights will light up on either side of the roads.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: Here are the two exx and remember, don't let anybody
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: touch you in the bathing suit area. You know that.
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: And you know, Columbine had happened that summer before, and
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: so everybody was quite aware of violence. And so the
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: idea is not to market the film as a fighting film,
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: but because it's really not. Those are metaphors and different things.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: But they didn't do it. You know, he didn't have
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: he didn't have the publicity control at that point in
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: his career, and they, you know, they put out all
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: this fight footage and you know, my parents went to
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: see it because I made it, but they thought it
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: was a boxing movie, you know, based.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: Off it's called fight Club. Yeah, that's exactly the way
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: they barketed it.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what And that's what they showed in the
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: in the trailers and stuff, And so that was unfortunate.
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: It did not work. It was a flop.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: But ironically, in that first meeting, Fincher was like, I
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: want this to be our generation's Blade Runner, and that
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: it describes what the nineties kind of what it feels
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: like to be in the nineties, and and and Blade
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: Runner was a failure when it came out as well,
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: you know, it wasn't until ten years later, five years
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: later that it blew up. And the same thing when
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: when the DVDs for Fight Club came out, it went
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: right to the top. It was enormous, and then it
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: became a cult home and then both both both Blade
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: Runner and Fight Club are in the national Yeah.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: So to go back for a second, that moment when
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: David said, Hey, match your dad's lighting on this these
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: close ups. If you wouldn't have done a good job there,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: a lot of your career might have not gone the
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: same way. Just that one is a possibility, right, like
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: if you would have screwed up that day or didn't
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: have the knowledge base to be able to do that
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: from all those years of working hard, just for that
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: one shot and David, I think at that point David
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: David was still I mean, David was David in the
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: commercial world, like he propaganda was up and running, and
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: you know, he was a big he was a big
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: deal in the commercial world. So it was just it's
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: fascinating that that one moment, I just I just go back.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: I'm like, if he would have screwed up that, does
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: he call him again? Does he does he ask him
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: to do another video?
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: He would have called my dad, so he would have
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: worked together again. But I don't know that he would
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: have had the trust in me to to to do
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: what later came, you know, right, no, exactly can you
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: can you explain to people what it's like, what was
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: like shooting music videos and commercials in the nineties, because.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: That's my that's my sweet, that's my decade. I went
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: to film school during that decade and I actually had
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: one of my good friends was the vault operator of propaganda,
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: and he would send me VHS's of David's reels. This
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: is pre internet, you know, this is before everything was
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: so I could watch him and Michael Bay and Spike
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: Jones and Fuquan and all. So he would send me
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: these compilation reels of all this stuff. I saw it
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: like I saw the game promos before anyone saw the
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: game promos, like that with that that mckett, what is that?
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: The puppet flying in the air and all that stuff.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: So I was I was really deep into propaganda, as
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: specifically Fincher, and like, how can you explain to people
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: what it was like with those budgets? With that kind
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, it was an insane time for music videos.
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: It was fantastic because there was a bunch of very
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: young filmmakers that were unbridled, and you you each each
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: job or each song came up, someone was trying to
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: do something that hadn't been done before or a different
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: perspective on it, and you would watch them You're like,
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: oh my god, how do that? Or you know, like.
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: Jake Scott shooting.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: Entire video backwards in reverse, or shooting on cper eight
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: are shooting, you know, Harris Sabtis baking film for a
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: whole video you know, so that it all had all
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: the kind of warping textures to it and everything. So
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: it was a it was a wild West of shooting
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: and almost anything went. But there was an enormous amount
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: of competition and people, very creative people, you know, competing
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: against each other. And so the budgets at that time,
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: this is pre Napster, so the videos were generating an
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: enormous amount of income and sales, record sales, and so
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: the budgets were enormous. You know, I I Harris Sabidis
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: photograph screen, but I operated and shot Second unionon Scream.
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: The screen, you know is if it's not the top,
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: it's right there. At seven point two million, with Janet
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: and Michael together.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: It was I think the bit and was expensive at
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: the time. I think it still is.
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: It might be, yeah, I don't know.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: But the budgets were incredible, you know, a million, two million,
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: five hundred thousand and seven fifty all all were reasonable budgets.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: But the quality of the work was really really interesting,
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: and the ideas were new and fresh and interpreting different musicians,
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: and you know, rap was just coming in and and
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: so you had the hip hop.
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: You had hip hop before rap.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: And then you had you know, Janet and Michael and
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: Madonna and Bowie and George Michael, and you just had
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: a lot of interesting artists that were all blooming at
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: the same time. And the good ones like Madonna and
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: Michael and Janet, they took the videos very serious. You know.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: There was a lot of artists that were young, and
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: they'd be hungover with it show five hours late and
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: you're looking just going, you know, this isn't for me,
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: Like this.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Is going to be out there forever.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: So you do you get an amount of money if
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: you show up or don't show up today, so you know,
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: so there was a big difference between like people dedicated
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: and you know, they always had interesting concepts with good
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: stories that were that did the songs justice, but weren't
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: just like a band playing on a pedestal somewhere, you know,
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: looked it up and.
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: So it was really quite amazing and exciting.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: You know, I think I shot maybe three hundred and
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: fifty music videos or something something for that degree that's insane.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: And like when you did something like you know, Freedom
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: with George Michael, like which was a revolutionary music video
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: because he wasn't in it. Yeah, and David and you
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: put that together. I mean that's I still First of all,
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: it's an amazing song, but like the explosions of the
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: of the like the explosions on the on the bass
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: hit and things like that, with the guitars blowing up
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: and the jacket blowing up. I mean, it's just it's
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: just it's for people that weren't around during the time.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, I was working in Miami, in the Miami
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: market and you know where Gloria Stefan and all those
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: guys were, and they were getting million, million and a
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: half dollars budgets second and third tier artist. We're getting
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: two fifty to five hundred, and I was working on those.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: I was just like, can you imagine that? Today? Doesn't
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: make it?
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: I still do maybe one or two a year. Yeah,
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: I love them, but you know, I don't go out
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: and seeking it. But they come one or two a year,
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: and it's so it's like the last couple have been
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: the Taylor Swift, Ferry Maroon five uh, and they always
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: have a fair amount of money to do it right right.
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: What changed, what changed a few years ago is they
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: figured out how to monetize.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: The We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: You think again and the videos and kids buy downloads
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: of the music videos, so the videos have not only
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: are they presenting the song, but they buy them to
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: watch over and over again. And so you know it'll
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: never be what it was, of course, but you know
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: it could come back to some degree where you have
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: decent budgets to make to make videos that make statements
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: and really promote an artist.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because now I mean you throw up, you throw
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: it up on YouTube and you just monetize it on
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: YouTube and you've got a billion views. That's a it's
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: a pretty nice chunk of change that's going to come
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: into your pocket or to the studio or the labels
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: pocket or whoever's beenking. So there is way, there are
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: ways still now where some of these artists that you're
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: just naming every time they drop a video, it's one
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: hundred two hundred five hundred million billion, you know watches.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: So it can't it can't happen. But but like the
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: the I mean, nobody names like second third tier acts
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: half a million dollars, Those days.
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: Are gone, those are probably gone.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: Those days are definitely gone now speaking of music videos.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: You also worked with another uh you know, Trail Brazier
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: with Mark Romanek, who I'm also a huge fan of
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: in his work with him, what is What Is the How?
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: You also shot his film One Hour Photo, which I
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: absolutely adored with with the late great Robin Williams. How
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: did you approach that film because the look of it
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: is so oh god, it just feels like there's that
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: that fluorescent light coming down on you and you just
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: feel off watching it. How did you approach that creatively?
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: With him? It was a it was a baby movie
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: in in comparison to Fight Club budget wise, you know,
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: and so there was a certain strategy and things that
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: you had to do that because you had to be
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: financially responsible and you had limited resources. But the wonderful
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: thing about that movie for me, and what I loved
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: about it is it had three worlds that he lived in.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: It had the story, which was his safe place, his
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: ethereal place where he was God and he could view
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: these people's lives and make judgments and then react. And
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: then there was their house, the family he was obsessed with,
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: which is very warm and loving and at least on
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: the surface, as as we find out, later, and then
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: his cold and industrial apartment that he lives in that
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: was void of personality except for the wall of other
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: people's lives that he made right. And so that gave
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: me three distinct worlds to light differently, you know, within
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: that budget, and that was really fun to do. And
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: the thing that I loved the most is, you know,
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: you're going to be in a store, and Mark really
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: wanted it to feel overlip in the sense that it's
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: coming from the top and it's a you know, a big, big,
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: big box store, and so I couldn't.
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: I couldn't.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: I'm not necessarily a fan of top light, just don't
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: like what it does in general to people's faces. But
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: we created these fixtures that you could look at and
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: see a little bit of light, but they weren't they
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: didn't really have any impact coming down, but they shot
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: up and we painted the ceiling white and so it
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: all was bounced soft light off the ceiling. That gave
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: this kind of ethereal glow in there and you could
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: go back and you can analyze it and that's like,
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: that's his heaven and that's his world, and this is.
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: This and the light's coming down from there.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: But it was really this beautiful I mean that all
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: fit into the story, but it was this beautiful soft light.
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: So you took this.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: Really industrial building and made it something that was prettier
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: but still had the personality that Mark Wan had reflected
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: and you know, visually to match the story.
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: And so that was you.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: Know, we bought all these old fixtures and from a
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: salvage company and then cut holes in them and put
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: them up and made those work and then shot in
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: that store.
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: You know what was rather trying.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: Was we shot in there for the first two weeks,
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: I think or three weeks, and so you want to
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: you know, it's okay to have to have you want
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: a balance in the movie. You want up and downs,
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: light and dark shadows and things that are that you
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: can see. And going to dailies for the first like
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: sixteen days, all that footage was in that store and
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: it was all this white, low contract thing. I was
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: losing my mind. I'm like, what am I shooting? This
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: is like there's nothing to balance again. But then, of course,
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: once we got out and we started getting into the
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: other worlds, and I was able to manipulate contrast and
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: light and have direction that I.
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: Was opposed to top and stuff.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: It really like, it really balanced out the movie and
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: it has a really cool look for it, and I
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: definitely served the story.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: No, you were saying, you just brought something into my
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: mind when you said contrast. I mean a movie like
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: fight Club and seven that you did second Unit. But
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: on fight Club the contrast is so beauty. I mean
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: it's just beautiful. And that was kind of like a
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: telltale Fincher esque thing. He loves blacks, he loves to
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: go deep into the blacks. How much of that was?
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Was that all in camera? And then you tweaked it
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: a little bit in the lab? Because in ninety nine
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: did they the I wasn't the I hadn't come out yet.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: Oh brother, we're at that didn't come out.
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: Yet, right?
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: That was all film that was so that was shoting,
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: that was in camera and lab work that got that
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: insanely crisp and just pristine look. Right.
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, then that was straight up. There was no
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: cross processing or any of the things that they had
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: done on seven. Right, it was straight up. It's the
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: way we shot it. It's terrifying.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because you're on the edge and that's the thing. Yeah,
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: when you work with David, I'm assuming you're always on
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: the edge on a lot of things. I mean the
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: same thing with a girl with a dragon tattoo and
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: social network.
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: I'll tell you a little story. Yeah, don't lose your
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: train thought. It was my first feature as the as
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: the main DP, right, so it's.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: A it was a big not a bad one to
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: start with, not a bad one.
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: I put more pressure on myself than than David or
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: the studio did, because I was so I didn't want
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: to fail him. I had so much respect for him
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: that I didn't want to be the one loose, like
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: you know, bolt in the entire ship. So we were
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: shooting a scene of Ed Norton with insomnia, laying in
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: bed wide awake overhead shot, and we had had the
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: sheets tea stained. In other words, they took the white,
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: some of the bright white off the sheets, but it
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: wasn't it wasn't the level we wanted it to, and
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: so we were really struggling with like making it feel
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: like nighttime, being dark enough, still seeing him, but not
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: having these glowing white sheets. And he kept going, it's
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: too bright, and I'm like, David, it's not too right anymore.
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: It's we're getting really close to it not going to
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: be an image there, and he's like, it's too right,
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: it's too right, and we shot it and it was
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: too dark, and I was like, I was already like,
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: oh okay, that's it. Well, when they come looking for
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: the guy to blame, all you know, I'm done and
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: I'm out of here and all that. And the next
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: day is like, well, you're right, we pushed too hard.
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: We'll shoot it again tomorrow. And he looked at me
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: and he goes, listen, if we're not making mistakes every
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: once in a while, then we're not pushing boundaries. Were
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: in a safe zone that nobody wants to be in,
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: and we're not. That's not what we're here to do.
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: We're here to change things and push things and break
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: boundaries and not repeat ourselves. And so it's only money.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: It's a big movie. We've scheduled time for things that
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: don't work out, and we'll shoot it again another day.
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: And that kind of has served me to this day
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: because you put it in perspective. You know, if you're
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: doing something where it doesn't have a lot of money
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: and you're risking losing a scene, then that's being irresponsible.
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: But if you're pushing the boundaries and you're taking advantage
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: of everything that you have and you are going for it, it's.
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: Okay to make a mistake.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: Now and then no question. I mean, because I mean
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: looking at Fight Club, you know, I saw it in
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: the theater and then seeing it on Blu ray and
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: four K and all that kind of stuff. I mean
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: you are on the edge because a lot of people
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: don't understand. Like they look at it, I'm like, oh,
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: they just fixed that in the computer. I'm like, no, No,
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: this is old school. This is lab work and like craft,
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: you know, because now you could shoot something down the
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: middle and gain a really crisp and crush the blacks
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: and all that stuff in d I much easier than
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: you could back back then. So you actually were you
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: were playing with stops. You were like, and I am
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: I too far gone because you can only push or
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: pull in the lab so much before the image is
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: gone and you don't have anything.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: Well, the thing that everybody has to appreciate is in
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: those days you when you went to the lab, when
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: you're when you're color correcting a movie, you had red,
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: green and blue, and you had light and dark.
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: That's it. No contrast, no other colors.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: No power windows, no power windows.
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: And no stopping it.
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: You know, there's a footage counter at the bottom of
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: the screen, and you're sitting in there with you know,
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: a guy that's been.
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: Working the lab for forty years.
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: He's got a piece of paper and a pencil, and
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: you're going, okay, five twenty four, it's two points two
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: green and one point too bright.
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: And he writes it down and two other shots go by, and.
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: Now you got to watch it over again and go okay,
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: And you had to keep doing this and keep doing this,
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: and keep doing this. You know, it's not like stop,
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: look at it, power window, this, bring up the shot
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: before it.
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: Let's look at those side by side.
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: Do that.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: And now back to the show.
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: Sad contrast.
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: Let's have a thousand shades of pink that we can
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: now add or take away. Let's do this and this
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: and this. So it's a different world now. In all fairness,
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: audiences are far more mature or educated than they were
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: then than they were eighty years ago, and so the
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: expectations and the critical eye is all that much stronger.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: So I kind of feel like the technology is kept
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: up with the audiences, and the audiences expect a certain amount,
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: and this technology affords us to go that much more
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: in that direction.
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: You know, it's really hard to get away with.
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: Something rudimentary when kids grow up watching Game of Thrones.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: Right right, like you watch that's the TV show? What
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: TV shows? Did we have different strokes.
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: Hill Street Blues and you know they were Three's Company, right.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Like we were raising television in the eighties. Uh, and
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: you they're still Game of Thrones, Like are you kidding?
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: So yeah, now now everyone's expecting so much more. So
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: the game has you have to take your game up,
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: uh to that, to that level.
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: You can stop a frame on your computer and analyze it.
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: You know, shots have to match because they can go
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: back and forth and look where before there was reciprocity,
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: which is our human brain processing the image going by that.
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: You know, you think you matched that to that shot.
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: But God forbid you ever put them side beside. I
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: bet they're you know, the Master. I bet God the
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: Father doesn't have as many shots that are perfect as
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: we all think it does.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean the Prince of Darkness, mister Willis.
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: I mean no, no disrespect.
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: I'm just saying like they didn't know.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: I mean I mean that in a good way, and
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: I mean that in a good way, like keep talking about.
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: Pushing did with that Jesus unbelievable.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: Oh my god. You look at Godfather too, and you're
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: just like, how did you have the balls to expose
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: al Pacino on a Francis for Acopola movie on the
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: sequel to Godfather? That freaking low like you could barely
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: see him, and that mastery to get to that, I mean,
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: he's literally a cough away from it not being exposed.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: It was just just it's it's a master work. It's
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: it's a master work.
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: I tell you. What's missing from that that that that
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: was so great about it and my father and Conrad
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: and all of them did it is they shot to
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: a degree where there was no turning back. So that's
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: what the movie is going to look like. There was
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: an arbitrator coming in and hey, you know what, that's
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: too too bright or too dark, and I need to
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: open it up. You can't open it up. It's it's
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: gonna go melky and it's going to look really bad.
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: So you have to live with what they did. You know.
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: And that's the drawback from the technology today is you know,
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: I can call it correct a movie for three weeks,
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: and when I walk away, there's nothing stopping someone from
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: going and dialing a knob and all of a sudden,
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: it's not what I thought it was. Now most studios
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: don't do that, But I've had occasions where I've left
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: and people have made changes, which is a problem.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and exactly, there's way And I mean like, I
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: was a colorist for fifteen years, so I, oh, I know,
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: my friend listen. I I'd sit there and I always
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: try to work with the DP, and the DP would
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: be in the room. But then when he left, the
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: producer who's paying me, He's like, Okay, I need you
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: to open this up a little bit more. It's just
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: a little too dark. I'm like, oh god, what do
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: I do? Like You're like, this is the dude that's
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: paying me, Like, what do I do? So there's this
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: weird place. But you're absolutely right. Nowadays, you as as
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: the DP, you don't have nearly the control that you
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: did back then. Like when your dad's shop laid runner,
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: it was what it was like, they weren't gonna tweak it.
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: It's like you got what you got.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: So so going back, you know, we were talking about
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: you're working on other films like Social Network and Grow
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: with a Dragon tattoo. Social Network is interesting, first of all,
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: is a master work man. Seriously, it is so beautifully shot.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: And you were using a Red one.
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: Red one, but we had the Mysterium X chip, which
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: was the new chip. You know, we had. Soderbergh had
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: talked Fincher into checking out Red. He had used them
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: on Chay and we were David and I were looking
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: at you know, we went through testing all the different
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: cameras and stuff, and Red was you know, Soderbergh said, look,
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: try these new cameras out, try this new sensor out.
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: I think you'll love it. And we went and met
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: Jim Gennard and Jared Land. You know, they were looked
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: down in Orange County at that time, and so we
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: went down there and looked at the cameras and the
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: footage and then the new sencer and it was absolutely beautiful.
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: And then they started asking what we want to change
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: on those cameras or what we need on this movie
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: that isn't available, And we had all those rowing scenes
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: you know, and those yeah, those what are they called
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: bocker boats? I think there's something like, uh, they're super
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: fragile and lightweight and you can't overload them. You know,
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: they're not meant meant to carry anything other than the
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: guys rowing and stuff. And so they made us a
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: carbon fiber camera body that weighed like six pounds, red
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: wine with the chip and they made this and they
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: made that, and it started this relationship that Fincher and
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: I have enjoyed, you know, uh since that film where
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: on Social Eric that was a that was the Mysterium
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: X on Dragon tattoo that was the epic and all
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: prototypes like you know, wires hanging out and open backs,
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: but and Gone Girl, Uh was the dragon I think,
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: so yeah, and so on, you know, and then he
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: had the xenomorphon Mindhunter, which there was was meant to
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: be handheld, but they ended.
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: Up not not utilizing that style.
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: But those were those ergonomic cameras that kind of looked
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: like a little bit like Alien.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: I saw that. Yet they made that special for him.
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: They called it the Z and everything was like the
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: motors to drive the lenses you had to pick you know.
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: It was meant for like a glass, so like a
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: similar seas all have the same size and so the
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: motors were attached and no cables and all all these
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: kind of nuances that over the years have evolved. And
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: now you know, last year they did mank and that
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: was the mono chrum, which he had asked for originally
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: for a commercial. Uh it was.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: Didn't he do the Justin Timberlake music video with that too?
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: Before that he did he did, I know, he did
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: a black and white Oh god, what's it for? He
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: did one with Rooney Mara that was for some.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: Flav Oh yeah, I remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that.
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: That Even before that there was something uh and then
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: I had shot I did these Levi spots with them
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: that were you know, all with the monochrome and so
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: he got they made Rangers, which was the newest sensor,
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: but made the monochrome for Mank And And now.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: So as a cinematographer, this is heaven. You basically go
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: into the toy shop and you go, I would like this,
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: I would like that, can you make this for me?
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: And they literally custom build what you need for your.
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: Projects, extremely supportive and helpful and so yeah, and so
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: I I the last film that I shot.
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: It was on the Ranger, but I.
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: Used the airy DNA glass and I you know, they
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: tell me that I'm the first person to do that
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: for that they because they had tried to keep it
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: mostly restricted to using with the ARIA cameras and stuff.
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: But then they opened the doors a little bit and
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: so I shot being the Ricardo's with the seventy mil
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: DNA primes that like the Joker and different things, and
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: then the Red Ranger with the full sensor AK.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: So I want to talk well, I want to talk
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: about the Ricardo's in a minute, because it was yeah, no,
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: and it's it's it's stunning. On social network, there's two
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: shots I have to ask you about. The one is
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: if you can't and they're they're pretty they're pretty well
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: known shots, so I'm sure you can get them on
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: the On the is it was it in I'm thinking,
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: is the overhead shot on top of the buildings. Is
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: that Social network? Or am I confusing that with man?
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: Is with with Jesse Eisenberg running through the harbor and it's.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: Just like stays there and that the camera fought like
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: it's attached to him almost it looks like and how
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: the hell do you do that.
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: That was a solution to the problem that Harvard generally
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: doesn't allow you to shoot movies on their campuses, especially
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: a movie that doesn't put them in great light of
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: the in fighting between all the students and then of
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: course the.
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: Chancellor or the chairman.
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: And so we had to figure out a way that
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: we could shoot a shot without moving the camera. But
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: we wanted to do a pan and scan within the
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: camera because we had to leave the cameras locked off
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: so that we could shoot when the sky changed.
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: We could get the depth of the campus, we could.
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: Get all the detailed the buildings in the background, and
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: then we would tile that together into a move.
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: And so we put three.
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: Cameras up there, frame to frame to frame and let
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: Jesse run And it was the only it's like, the
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: only building in Cambridge that's not part owned by the university.
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: So we picked that point in the corner and had
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: him run by. He ran by the oldest arch going
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: into the campus, which is, you know, if you know
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: anything about Harvard, is a famous archway that goes into the.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: Camp We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: And it's pitch black.
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: You know, there's like I changed, like I had the
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: city fix all the street lights on both streets that
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: you see, and then I put light bulbs on the
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: back of the poles that you couldn't see that made
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: down light that he could run in and out of
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: these pools of light. And then we had this dilemma
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: of not like the arch I needed to be backlit
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: for us to see it when he runs by it.
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: And so we kept coming up with scenarios like I
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: was like, let's rent like a fake power truck go
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: on campus, like we're fixing something, and just use the
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: bright headlights and stuff and the little thing on and
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: no one will bother us because they'll think that, you know,
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: you're fixing something with the power company. Fincher came up
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: with this idea of making a battery cart light that
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: was all self contained and hiring a mine, and so
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: the mime would take the cart onto campus behind the archway,
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: turn on the light, and then start miming. The idea
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: is that anybody would come around, would think that he's
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: lighting himself. They'd watch for ten minutes. Even if the
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: cops came. He would do his whole thing where He's like,
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: I can't hear you, and uh.
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: And so we did that got the shot.
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: We you know, we lit the archway from on campus
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: with a mime and and then tiled that shot to
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: get him to run two.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: So you so, so basically you, I don't like to
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: use the wordch stole the shot, but you stole the shot.
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: Essentially, he stole the light source.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: He stole the light source, which is amazing that a
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: film and the people involved with the film, like Social
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: Network would need to pull those kind of indie moves
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: to get the shot. But that's the but that's the
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: reality of the world.
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: That's the way it works.
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: That's the great thing about.
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: Film school is you're always borrowing and stealing and trying
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: to get whatever you can you know, into it. And
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: honestly that kind of happens on commercials and music videos
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: and everything. You have to kind of like go out
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: and be aggressive to make sure you get everything that
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: all the parts that you need to make the story.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: That's amazing. Now, the other shot that I love, and
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: it's is the rowing the rowing sequence, the one with
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: Trent's amazing score. What is the technique to make everything
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: look so small? I know it's a photographic technique, but
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: can you explain it to the audience how you got
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: that shot? Because when I saw it, I was just like, Wow,
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: that's I haven't seen this in a film before.
• 52:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Two things.
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: One, we were only given like an hour and a
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: half to shoot in the area where the regatta actually happens,
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: and so we had to shoot some finish line stuff
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: and this and that, and then we had to get
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: out of there, and so we were up ever more
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: from that and it didn't look exactly the same. And
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: so to avoid any of the matching issues, the idea
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: of this shallow depth of field super dramatic. And we
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: had seen it on YouTube where they had done like
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: shipyards miniatures and you see it moving, you're like, is
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: that a model or is that Real's gorgeous. So it's
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: just a matter of lensing and shallow depth of field
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: and perspective. And so we did that and it solved
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: a lot of problems for us. And UH and and
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: super uh energetic in the in the in the sense
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: that it adds tension and kind of confusion to this race,
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: so you.
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: Don't know who's winning and when or where, and the
• 53:42
  Speaker 4: energy keeps up.
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: And I loved the notion of locking the focus and
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: letting the guys row in and out, because you know,
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: on those boats, the boat slides underneath the guy kind
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: of the guy stays and then the boat slides and
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: then he catches up and then he slops again, and
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: so that that just was so dramatic to me. It
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: really worked.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: It was so basically it was a workaround to solve
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: a problem. It was not as much of a creative decision,
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: but then it turned into a creative decision and how
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: you worked with it.
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we might have done it anyways because
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: it was such a cool effect. We had talked about
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: it before we did those scenes, but then it became
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: a solved as well.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: That's that's that's amazing. Now you've been you've been you know,
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: you've obviously been in the business for a long time.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: You've been around lot a lot of different cinematographers, Jung cinematographers.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: What are some of the biggest mistakes you see young
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: dps make when they first come out.
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: Not trusting their first thought to an image or a problem,
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: being talked out of it, letting fear debility you as
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: opposed to embracing it so that you can stay on
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: edge and fresh and push boundaries. You know. I think
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: I've seen some people so hungry to get that opportunity
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: and so focused on films that they cherished, they try
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: to emulate them on their first time out. And that's
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: risky business because you don't have the kind of support
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: on set to back up those choices if they don't
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: work out, and if you take too long and you
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: don't accomplish your day's work, then all of a sudden,
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: you know, you're you're sprinting through stuff and making mistakes
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: and dropping shots, and you not only have you not
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: achieved your goal, you've you've kind of like undermined yourself.
• 55:45
  Speaker 4: And so I think you have to keep perspective.
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: Of the task at hand and know your audience in
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: the sense of like how much money do you have,
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: how much time do I have?
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: How much sport am I going to get?
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: And sometimes you want to paint with a little rush,
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: and sometimes you want to paint with a big fat
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: brush because that's the way to get through that.
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: Right And so it's the equivalent of me trying to
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: go out and shoot a scene from Fight Club with
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: you know, five thousand dollars and in six hours for
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: a scene that took you maybe two or three days,
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: and you had a much bigger support staff than I would.
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: That's yeah, exactly so, and that is a mistake.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of I can imagine that, a lot
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: of them. They are trying like I'm gonna go shoot
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: like a blade runner. I'm like, well, it was a
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: bigger budget.
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: When I was an assistant, I saw guys light for
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: two hours and have like very specific like actor has
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: to hit here, actor has to hit here a little
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: too long. But it looked great, and the actor comes in.
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to that mark. I'm going here and here,
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: and now it's either a redo for another two hours,
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: or they're dark and not in the light or And
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: you know, that's all part of that relationship thing too.
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: If you once there's a trust, in a really relationship
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: with the with the cast and that then everybody knows
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: that everyone's on the same team, then we all help
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: each other out. But when someone feels like they're being manipulated,
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: then that's kind of you know, that can be problematic
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: for sure.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: Now let's talk about your newest film being The Ricardos,
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: which I had the pleasure of watching.
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: Man.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: I absolutely loved it. I think it's one of the
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: best films of the year. Uh is I mean beautifully lit?
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: And when I was watching and I'm like, oh my god,
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: these guys must have so much fun shooting it, because
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: you're like, you know, it's Lucy and Desi, and you
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: know it's it's obviously Aaron Sorkin directing and wrote this
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: remarkable script and you you know, you were we were
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: kind of talking about beforehand, the tightness of the script
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: and how tight you know, Aaron writes his scripts. What
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: was it like working with Aeron Szworkin on an Aeron
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: Sorkin script and playing in this, you know, the golden
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: age of television.
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that was fantastic. It's probably as much fun
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: as I've ever had on a set. And I think
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: everybody that was involved in it would would tell you that,
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: not because it was happy, go lucky, joking around, just
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: because it was a joy every day to shoot the material,
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: to shoot Javier and Nicole and JK, you know, and
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: actually the entire cast. The sets were beautiful, The atmosphere
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: is very supportive, and it just it just was the
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: chemistry was so good amongst all the departments and everybody,
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: because I think we all knew how good the script was,
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: and it's something that we all have. You know, I
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: don't care where you're from. There's everybody has a little
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: piece of I Love Lucy in them. My girlfriend is
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: Vietnamese and has been in the country for about fifteen
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: years now, and she knows every episode, you know, from Vietnam,
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: and so yeah, so you know, it's it has a
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: little something for everybody. And then it's period piece and
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: it's the fifties and and and so it was very,
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: very exciting. I had, you know, worked with Aaron in
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: a different capacity on Social Meeric right, I wrote, he
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: wrote that script and odd funny enough, the last shot
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: of that movie, I think Fincher wanted to avoid the
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: emotional goodbyes and told Aaron to shoot the last shot,
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: which was an insert of a letter coming underneath the door.
• 59:22
  Speaker 4: So of course I'm still the DP my stuff.
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: So that was our first director DP relationship was that
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: insert on social network. And then you know, he's his
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: dialogue is so amazing and his tempo so exciting, and
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: like I said.
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: Earlier, he makes a complete story.
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: It's tight and within that it just opens the door
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: for creativity for all of us to contribute. And he's
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: very open minded about it, and he's very like embellishes
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: us to bring more to it.
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: And for me, you know, he had done a couple
• 59:58
  Speaker 4: movies as a director.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: For We'll be right back after a word from our
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: sponsor and now back to the.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: Show, including uh, you know, Faden shot Chicago seven got
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: nominated last year for it and that. But that movie
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: was like structured in it, you know, it is half
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: the movie takes place in the courtroom, which is so
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: so difficult, and so Aaron, you know, being a guy
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: that wants to progress, wanted me to bring some of
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: like the light choices and styles and stuff that Fincher
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: and I had had used over the past. Now, of course,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: this is a different kind of movie and so you
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: have to adjust your adjust your your kind of style
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: to whatever the subject matter of the story is that
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: you're telling. But it did open the door for me
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: to really play a lot and to you know, capture
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: the era, capture the romance and the magic. And then
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: I have to to play with black and white. I
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: got to play with flashbacks like in the forties, which
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: I tipped my hat to heral and some of the
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: in my grandfather to the starlight kind of lights and
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: eyelights that came through like a harter, And so that
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: was really fun. And then, you know, staying true to
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: the era but modernizing it a little bit. You know,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: it's one of those dilemmas that you don't want to
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: be a parody of an era. You want to bring
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: that era to what it is, but you also have
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: responsibility to entertain a modern audience. Right, So you know,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: if you're doing a picture in nineteen ten, you wouldn't
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: use glass from nineteen ten. They only used glass from
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: nineteen ten because they had to. They didn't have nineteen
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: eighties or twenty twenty glass, right. So I felt like
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: in exploring some of the choices and cameras and lenses
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: and light sources and all that he would stay true
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: as much as we could, but then I would I
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: would bring it to the future a little bit, you know,
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: like for example, the black and white footage of the
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: television show I Love Lucy. You know, a DP named
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: Carl Freund photographed I Love Lucy. He was a feature guy,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: He was an inventor. He was known throughout the industry
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: as a as really like a technology technological wizard and
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: a master some phatographer. He won an oscar in nineteen
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: thirty seven. He invented the incident meter, which read reads,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: you know direct light as a spot meter that you
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: know reflected light. And so Desisy and Lucy knew this,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: and so they asked him to shoot this TV show
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: with the with the idea of trying to solve this
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: dilemma of shooting a three camera show but shooting it
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: as if it were a live show, but shooting on film,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: and she in front of a live audience, so all
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: things that had not been done before, you know, in
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: that time or that era. They you know, if you
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: lived in New York, you could watch a show live.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: If you didn't live in New York, then they were
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: They filmed a TV monitor right right, and then sent
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: that around and then rebroadcast it. So the quality went
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 3: way down. And Desi and Lucy didn't want they didn't
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: want to work on the East Coast. They wanted to
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: live on the West Coast. And two they didn't want
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 3: they wanted everybody to see the same image quality at
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: the same time. So they decided to shoot on film,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: which was an extra cost which they absorbed, which they
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: also got the rights to after it aired the first time,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: which was kind of the dawning of syndication, right. So
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: h So, the idea was to light something from overhead
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: light something that create a lighting scenario where you wouldn't
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: have to move lights between setups, that you could move fast,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: and that you didn't block the audience from being able
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: to see the talent. And the idea behind that was
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: that Ricky thought that our DESI thought that Lucy performed
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: better in front of a live audience, and the rest
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: of the cast did as well when they interacted. So
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 3: those things were the kind of the task that Carl
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: Fryd was given. And then when he solved it all,
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: you know, it was such a hit show and a
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: technological kind of accomplishment that people would come from all
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: over the world to watch them do this, and then
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: more or less that's what a you know, the three
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: camera sitcoms became forever after that, you know, to this day,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: to this day, to this day, they had hadphones, they
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: had a wide shot and two close ups they had
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: they talked to each other, the superscript supervisor kind of
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: kind of regulated the cameras, you know, and so and
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: then and then.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: Desi, you know, he they would cut it. It take
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 4: a week to cut.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: And he he didn't understand why you had to watch
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: just one camera, one reel on a movieola, and so
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: he asked Moviola to make one where he could run
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: all three reels so he could see all three images
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: at the same time and know where the cuts were
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: based on the tempo and or and so like now
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: you know, you do sports screens, or you have seven monitors,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: you have whatever it is. But he had them build
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: a movie oli where you could run all three cameras
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: at the same time. And so there was a lot
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: of innovation going on on that set that show.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, people don't realize it. They just look at us like, oh,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: it's a sitcom. I'm like, but that's it kind of
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: changed so much about everything on a technological sense, on
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: the story sense, with her being pregnant for the first time,
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: they still never said the word pregnant, but you know
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: that there was a pregnant woman on a national television
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: was like a thing, you know. And even having Desi
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: as a Cuban lead, well that was a big I'm Cuban, so.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: You know I was.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: Desi was one of the only Cuban people I knew
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: that were in the business or Latinos in general when
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: I was growing up. And I just every every Cuban
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: on the planet knows who Desi Arne is, like he's
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: a patron saint of American Cubans. But it was such
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: a revolutionary and it must have just been such a
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: ball to go back in there and play. You were playing.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: It just seemed when I was watching the movie, I
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: was watching it and it seemed like everybody was playing
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: and having a good time. From from the performances, which
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: all four of the leads all all all. She get nominated,
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: there's no question about it because they were so good.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: Javier nailed in, Nicole net jk Uh and the actress
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: who plays ethel Nina, Oh my god, I love her
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: and Goliath, Uh, She's wonderful and Goliath. So when I
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: saw her pop up there, I was like, and she
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: held her.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 4: Home and Goliath together, right yeah?
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: JK No, it was a boy bill Billy Bob Billy
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: Bob's and Jeliath.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: Jk has a part in it because they're right. The
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 3: other night that's right.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: They weren't. Yeah, so and she held her own with
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: these I mean those three Oh yeah she didn't.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: She does. I'm a huge fan. And then it's a
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: funny thing because you have a built in audience per se,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: because everybody holds that show close to their but within
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: that and because of that, everybody is very critical about
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 3: how it's being done and who represents who. And so
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: I have so much admiration for Nicole to put herself
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: in that position and take that risk, because there was
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 3: a lot of animosity before it ever, you know, long
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: before we ever started shooting, when they announced two was
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: being cast in what parts and whatnot. And and I'm
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: really really pleased to see as people take in that
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: movie more and more people are just like blown away
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: by how good she is in it, how much of
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 3: Lucille's character she embraces and the true spirit of her.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 3: And that's yeah, she's going to get nominated.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: There's no there's no questions. She's gonna get nominated. She
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: almost like she was channeling Lucy.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's that's what Lucy's daughter said.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: Wow, she Lucy Arnaz was extremely extremely happy and moved
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: to tears when she finally watched the final version.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: Oh god, I can I can only imagine. Yeah, and
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: Javier was just remarkable. And I mean, I mean the
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: lighting of the film. I remember the one shot that, uh,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: it's not a spoiler, but there's a scene where Lucy
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: calls everybody in to the to the studio late at night.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: That that scene and when that door opens and it's
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: raining outside and light shafts come in, I'm like, oh,
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: they had functioning that.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: I couldn't wait to do that from the time I
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: read like, I had that in the back of my mind.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 4: And it's so fun when it comes.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: To fouition, you know, yeah, and you're like, Okay, tonight's tonight.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: So it's funny because sometimes I can watch it. I
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: can watch a movie. I'll go, that's the that's the
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: that's the one, that's the shot that got the defeat
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: to do. What do you to get on this project?
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 4: You're just so right there.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: Isn't it true that, like some when you read a
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: script you're like, Okay, I'm gonna I mean, let's obviously
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: it's just like with David or someone you've worked with before,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: but if you're working with them for the first time,
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: you look at the script and you're like, what's in this?
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: Can I?
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: First of all, can I tell the story? But what's
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: in it for me? What? Where's my challenge? Where can
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: I have some fun? Is that basically like, oh, I
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: haven't done that before.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: It's the good and bad, Like you're like, oh, this
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: is going to be amazing, like and then you get
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: to like, oh, my god, a boat in the middle
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: of the lake at night, How am I going to
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: do that? So you know, you go back and forth
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: the whole time, and then you settle down and then
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: you start to analyze it and solve all the problems
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: and then you know, make the story work.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: And being a being a cinematographer is basically solving problems
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: twenty four to seven all the time. Like you, there's
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: things that are coming up constantly that you have no
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: understanding of, Like okay, all right, git me a second here,
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: let's figure this out here, let's figure out that there
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: the oh the actor doesn't want to stand there. Okay, well,
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: let's do this again. Like it's constant with you. It's
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: constant like on a set. We'll be right back after
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: I feel yeah, I think I think it is.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 4: But it's also the same for the director.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I feel like it doesn't matter who you are,
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 3: how much money you have, or how many days you
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 3: have to shoot. Uh, problems happen, you know. Uh, rather
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 3: weather changes, things break, someone doesn't come out in time,
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 3: something's wrong with something else, and whoever makes the best
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: creative compromises at that moment wins, you know. So that's Uh,
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: watch these masters and they solve the problems. Uh, because
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 3: you have it. You don't have a choice right now.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: You have you've got to go through because there's like.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: You watch what WA's storming of normality and saving Private Ryan,
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 3: and you know they shot there for a week, two weeks.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: Obviously the weather is going to change every single day,
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 3: and that's supposed to take place in a few hours.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: And it's sunny and then it's cloudy, and then it's this,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: and then it's that. But there's enough smoke and enough action,
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: and it's color corrected so beautifully, and it's like you're
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 3: caught in the moment of the energy and another you
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: know that it doesn't matter.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's one other film that you did with
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: Sasha Gervasi Hitchcock, Sasha's Sasha is a good friend h
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: and he's Uh, we've talked a lot about I've talked
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: a lot a lot with him about Hitchcock and how
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: he did it. How fun was it to go back
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: and like tread over Hitchcock's like walk the path of
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: Hitchcock walk sometimes like recreating some of those scenes.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 4: Man, very exciting, you know. Again, it's it's not so different.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: Than than being the Ricardos go down one of the
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 3: paths of your idols and you get to capture the
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: great Anthony Hopkins playing playing Hitchcock and playing his wife
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: and uh, you know, you're you're so familiar with all
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 3: of his movies, you know all the shots. Uh, it's
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 3: a little bit like being put back in that place.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: And so it's it's it's it's like a little kid
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 3: going to Disneyland for the first time, but it's a
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 3: it's the magical movie world that we get to go visit,
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 3: you know, And so it was really really fun to
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 3: shoot that pay homage to it and then try to
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 3: you know, Hitchcock was always an innovator, and he was
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: always pushing boundaries, and he was doing the single take
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 3: movies and he was using this, and he was using that,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: and uh, we had this debate at the beginning of
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 3: the movie about whether we should shoot it on film
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 3: or whether we should shoot it digitally, and uh uh ult,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: you know, it's like, is it sacrilegious to shoot a
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 3: Hitchcock movie digitally?
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 4: And ultimately it came down a financial problem.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 3: And uh the producers uh realized the cost savings and
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 3: pushed us towards the digital world. But when you go
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 3: back and you think about it, like, if Hitchcock was
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 3: around today, he would be the first guy using the
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 3: newest technology to so in a way, you know, I
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 3: didn't have that same kind of like I feel like
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 3: I had down the world by not shooting it on film.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: No, I don't think. I don't think Hitchcock would be
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: dying on the mantle there on the on the top
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: of the hill, going film forever, like He's not that
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: he'd been, Like can I he he would have grabbed
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: an iPhone and shot. Oh god, could you imagine him
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: like grabbing I always wondered. I was like, what would
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: Kubrick do today? Oh my god? What would what would
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: Stanley do with today's technology? Oh? God, the stuff that
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: they you know, the masters. If you would have given
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: these the tools to those masters, what would have happened?
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 3: Now? Look how good the stories were that they told
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 3: already they.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: Were they were And in a time when you really
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: needed to know your stuff, like like when you shot
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: fight Club and when you shot when you shot film,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: you needed to know how to expose properly? How do
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: you need it? There's so much more knowledge you need
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: to as a cinematographer, whereas in the digital world you
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: you have a lot more leeway.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 4: There is more leeway.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: So I'm gonna ask you a few questions, ask all my guests,
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: what advice would you give a filmmaker trying to break
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: into the business today?
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: Uh, watch a lot of movies, study directors, and shoot
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 3: as much as you possibly can.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: Uh what is the lesson that took you the longest
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: to learn, whether in the film industry or in the life.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 3: Hm. That's a good question. Wow, Uh I would I
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 3: just think, Uh, you know, I kind of mentioned it earlier,
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 3: is to embrace your fears and and uh utilize that,
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 3: you know, because I look, I've done a lot of
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: a lot of films, but when you walk on that
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 3: through that elephant stage door the first time, or even
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 3: every day that morning, or even before that, when you're
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 3: driving up on a street and there's you go past
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 3: twenty two trucks before you get to the they drop
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 3: you off in front of the set. You start, you know,
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 3: the institut. You start and you're like, oh my god,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 3: this is the day that I'm going to get discovered
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 3: that I don't know what I'm doing. And you walk
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 3: through that stage door or into that set or onto
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: that house and you look around. It's all overwhelming and
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 3: people are coming up like what you know, A thousand
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 3: questions start happening, and you just got to sit in
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 3: the process and you watch the scene. You block it out.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 3: You know, obviously you've been there before and you have
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 3: a plan and stuff, but utilizing it, making it come together,
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 3: you got to trust yourself and know that it'll come
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 3: and you'll solve the problems and embrace all that, all
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: that insecurity. You know, don't let it get the best
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 3: of you, because that's when you make mistakes or you
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 3: question yourself. And again I said that before, it was
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 3: like go with what you thought the first time. It's
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 3: usually the right choice. Whatever your gut's telling you, you know,
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 3: and if it doesn't feel right, you'll you'll realize that
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 3: the first time you're watching the monitor and looking through
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 3: the eyepiece and go, you know what I got someone's
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 3: not working out here. I got to change this and stuff.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: And three of your favorite films of all time.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 3: Later Runner Godfather stuck between like No Country for Old
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 3: Men or Shawshankanka.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, nice, all good choices. And one last question
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: specifically to you, was there a lesson or what was
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: the biggest lesson you took away from your father? When
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: it comes to lighting and being a cinematographer.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: It's not what you light, it's what you don't like
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 3: that has the most impact.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: That's that's great advice, great great advice. And where can
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: people watch Being the Being?
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 3: The percardas and released number tenth in theaters? You know,
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 3: I kind of looked around and see where it was
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 3: going to be playing, so I think it's a limited release.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 3: And then on December twenty first it's on Amazon.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: That's amazing. Jeff Man, thank you so much for being
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: on the show, bro. I really appreciate it. I can
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: geek out a little bit more with you, I'm sure
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: but I appreciate your time, my friend. Thank you again
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: for being on the show and continued success, and please
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: keep making movies, my friend.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 4: Oh well, you're tea kind. Thanks Alex.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: I want to thank Jeff so much for coming on
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: the show and dropping his knowledge bombs on the drive.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: Thank you so so much, Jeff. If you want to
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: including how to watch his new film being The Ricardos,
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: which I highly highly recommend one of the best films
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: I've seen in twenty twenty one, head over to the
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv. Forward slash three
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: ninety three. Thank you so much for listening, guys, as always,
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: keep on writing no matter what. I'll talk to you soon.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: Screenwriting dot tv.