Latest / Arrivals: A Birth Story Podcast / The dance of labor, separation trauma, hypnobirthing and the beauty of a postpartum doula

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The dance of labor, separation trauma, hypnobirthing and the beauty of a postpartum doula · Arrivals: A Birth Story Podcast

• Merelise Wilson: Seems to be fine. Give it just a few seconds. Do see like it says actual recording is higher quality? And do you see there's like an uploading bar at the top? Okay. Okay. Sarah: Yeah, it seems like it's recording. I don't. ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah, I do see that. 6468. Merelise Wilson: Yeah, okay, seems to be okay. Okay. Sarah: Okay. Do you want me to hit record on my like my phone or something and just in case? Merelise Wilson: Just in case of backup. mean, ⁓ I mean, it should be, it should be okay. Knock on wood. It'll tell me if it kicks us off, but if worst case scenario, we'll have to hop back on. Sarah: Okay, I'm going to close this a little bit. It's a little hot. a little better. Is that one or that Merelise Wilson: Okay. Okay, so I will just do like, you're good, you're good. I'll just kind of do like a quick intro, say welcome to the Rivals podcast. And then I'll say like today, I'm so excited to have Sarah Brower with me. You might also know her as Sarah Morris. And, and then like, you know, really, we'll just kind of like jump in and, you know, it's really like your time to Sarah: Sorry, I'm here. Merelise Wilson: tell your birth stories and give me all the details. I know we like went through it quickly yesterday, but please, you know, ⁓ fill in all the details, spend as much time as you want. And then let's definitely save a little bit time at the end to talk about your doula work. And I'll weave in questions as we go if I have them, but yeah, does that sound good? Sarah: Okay. Okay. Yeah, totally. do you like, when I was thinking about it too, I was thinking about like what could be valuable to your listeners. And I was thinking how, like we didn't really talk about the part leading up to the birth. Do you want to hear some of that? Like, you know, what the few days before kind of thing. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Yes, definitely. That's a great call out. ⁓ I should have said that. Yes, I should have said that. I always ask my guests, like, you tell me where you want to start in the story. Because sometimes there's a part, ⁓ like, there's sometimes there are aspects of like pregnancy or even like, you know, fertility or whatever that are relevant and add color and context to the birth story. yes, absolutely. It's like wherever you want to start in the process, it works great for me. Sarah: Okay. Uh-huh. Okay. Okay. Okay. Merelise Wilson: Okay. And then remind me how old is your oldest? 16. And then your youngest is? Sarah: 16. Yeah, this guy. Actually, yeah, this guy. He's 16 now. I know. Merelise Wilson: I can't even think about that. can't, I, know, I know we got, we got, we got, got to get into it in a second, but I was talking to someone the other day and they were saying how their son has like BO and stuff now. And I was like, I can't picture my little, cause I have two little boys. I was like, I can't picture my little nuggets smelling. Sarah: I know, it's so wild. And then when they start getting into like naughty stuff, it's like, ugh, it's, I know, I know. Merelise Wilson: No, no blinders, blinders. ⁓ Anyways, we're jumping ahead though. go back to the beginning. All right, here we go. Hello and welcome to the Arrivals podcast. I'm your host, Marylis Wilson. I'm so excited. You're good, you're good. People do that all the time. ⁓ Okay. All right. Sarah: Yeah. Bye. Do you want try that again? This is not a way to start over, sorry. Okay, they do, okay. Is there a way to, sorry before we get going, going, is there a way to take my face out of this? Merelise Wilson: Yeah. I was just investigating that as well. The best I've been able to find is like you can minimize yours. Sarah: ⁓ wait, let's see if I can, no, how I minimize me? don't like, I feel like I tend to want to look at myself and that, ⁓ you know what I can do? I think I can pin you. Merelise Wilson: Same. Or actually you can do, does that work? Okay, perfect. I know, I hate that. I do the same thing. I'm always like, don't look at myself, don't look at myself. Yes. I see you, yes. And you can see me. Okay, perfect. Okay, let's do it. Sarah: Yeah, ⁓ yeah, there there I'm gone now. think yeah Yeah, I hid myself Yeah, it's weird and I don't need to look at myself. It's fine. You still see me, right? Okay. Yep. Okay. Okay. Merelise Wilson: Hello and welcome to the Arrivals podcast. I'm your host, Merelise Wilson And today I'm so excited to have Sarah Brower with me. You might also know her as Sarah Morris. She's a wonderful actress, has been in a lot of things over the years. And I'm just so excited that you're joining me today, Sarah, welcome. Sarah: Thank you. I'm excited to be here. Merelise Wilson: So our connection is so random, but your husband works with one of my good friends. And yes, and he intro'd us and ⁓ that's how we got connected and it's through the music world. And so, yeah. Sarah: right. Yeah, totally. It's, and it's funny because we know Drew through the most random of ways we met him on vacation in Grenada. Did he tell you that? Merelise Wilson: That's right. Yes, he did tell me that. I was like, what are the odds? But like, if it would be anyone, it'd be Drew who would make some random friends on vacation. Sarah: And Ned, my husband Ned is the same way. Like make friends and actually stay friends with them years later. So it's cool. Yeah, they brought us together. Yeah, for sure. Merelise Wilson: I love it. I know, I know, I love it. Hopefully a new friendship too. It's okay. So you have two kids who are now teenagers. Sarah: Queen and teen. Yes. I have a 16 year old and a 12 year old. My son is the 16 year old and he's over, he's like six feet tall now. And then my 12 year old is my daughter. She's sixth grade. She's like little petite little thing, total tomboy. Like not the little girl that I thought I was gonna have. Yeah, it's funny. Merelise Wilson: Queen and Teen, which is wild. ⁓ my God. No. Ugh. Yeah. Isn't it funny how that happens? I always thought I would have girls because I'm like kind of a girly girl. And then I ended up with two boys and I can't imagine having anything but boys now. yeah. Sarah: Yes. Yeah, I mean, I remember when I found out I was having a boy. He knows this so I can say this, but I cried for like two days. was like, what am going to do with a boy? And it was like, it was just felt like I don't, I can't be a boy mom. And then, you know, of course, like I remember telling my husband, I was like, I mean, who am I going to like go see musical theater with? And he's like, I like musical theater. I was like, Merelise Wilson: ⁓ I know! Hahaha Sarah: I know, what about shopping? He's like, I like shopping. Okay, I'm putting all these stereotypes on my boy that was funny. And then I didn't find out what I was having my second and a girl popped out and I was like, very excited. But now she's not, she does like musical theater, but she hates shopping and she's not girly and could care less about all the dolls I saved for her. like, yeah. Merelise Wilson: Hahaha I know. Right? ⁓ man, that's devastating. We, I love that you guys did a surprise. We did surprises with both of our boys and similar to you, had a boy first and then we were both convinced that we were going to have a girl next. Like my first pregnancy, didn't have a strong sense, but my second pregnancy, thought like, it's definitely a girl. It's definitely a girl. And then a boy popped out. Yeah. Sarah: ⁓ funny. Yeah, see, we found out with the first, but I had no feeling one or the other before. And then it was like, ⁓ it's a boy. And then decided the second time it killed my husband. He was like, I can't believe you're not finding out. And I was like, there's so few surprises in life. And so we didn't the whole pregnancy. And I thought I was having a boy the whole time. And then like a few days before she was born, I had like a little Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Okay. Sarah: sprinkle with my girlfriends, like a tiny little shower. And ⁓ we did one of those, the silly like, tests where you hold the ring over your belly and, and it kept saying girl. And I was like, I don't think that's right. And then it was right. And yeah, my husband was, he was really shocked too. And he was like, later, you know, really glad he told me, I'm so glad that you made us wait because that was fun. Not. Merelise Wilson: Hmm. Yeah. ⁓ Sure enough. Sarah: not knowing, getting surprised, you know, it's a girl. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Merelise Wilson: I loved it. I know. We're jumping way ahead though in the story. ⁓ So I guess let's start with your son. So where in the story would you like to start? Sarah: I guess, well, I was thinking about this and it's kind of, it's fun doing this because it gets your mind, you know, thinking, reminiscing about these big moments in life that I don't know. I think about like once a year on their birthday, feel like, you know, they always want to hear the story. so, you know, I guess kind of the story that I tell that starts with a few, my son was, was due in January, January 19th. ⁓ I knew that I could go late. Like I'd been doing all this research throughout my pregnancy. ⁓ But every night we were like, we should probably stay in. Tonight could be the night. And after like five days, we were both just like, ⁓ my God, we're so fucking bored. Can we please go out? And so we went out to dinner with some friends. It was pouring rain. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Sarah: I remember during the day I'd been like walking at the mall because it was so rainy, which is so unusual for LA. There was this huge hail storm and like, it was, it was crazy, but I just, needed to walk and in hindsight, I was probably like in pre labor and didn't really know it, but I kept having to like sit down in the mall. My husband's like trying on clothes and stuff, of course. And ⁓ Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Sarah: And then, we went out to dinner with some friends that night and then a friend, another friend of mine was having a birthday party at a bowling alley. So we went, I did not bowl. Ned bowled and I remember he like had a drink and then he got a second drink and I just had this, somebody was saying to me, they were like, your pupils are huge. And I was like, really? And they were like, yeah, you're, you're, they're like saucers. And Merelise Wilson: Hahaha Sarah: And I'd had this moment like from dinner to the drive to the bowling alley where I was like, I felt just this kind of wave of like, whoa, like a drug hitting me or something kind of. And, and then I remember that friend said, my, my pupils are really big. And then my husband like had another drink in his hand and I was like, I don't think he should drink that. And he was like, ⁓ okay. And he like gave it to someone else. And like a little bit later we left, we came home and Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sarah: I remember like people always saying like, what you know, you want to know what a contraction feels like. But everyone just goes, you'll just you'll know. And I was like, you know, you can and you're having these Brax and Hicks and you're like, well, is that it? I don't know. I mean, it feels like something. And then we were sitting on the couch, like watching TV, eating ice cream. And all of a sudden, I was just like, ⁓ yep. That was a contraction like in my head, was Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Bye. That's different. Sarah: Yep. I was like, ⁓ that's what they mean. You'll know. And then I wait, didn't say anything and then waited like, you know, whatever five minutes and then another one happened. And then I think I waited for one more. And then I was like, I think I'm in labor. And he was like, what? I like, I've, I've definitely like these feel like different. This feels like a different, and he was like, okay. And so we, were, you know, moved into like starting timing them and all that. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: business. I think like around, I can't remember, that was probably like 11, I think around like one we called our doula. had a birth doula for that pregnancy. And she was like, you know, asking questions and she was like, well, let me talk to Sarah, my husband, called her and I was talking to her I would be like, hang on, you know, like in the middle of the conversation, I'd be like talking and then have to stop and she was like, you know, I think I think we better meet at the hospital. And I was like, really? Okay. So we went to the hospital and, ⁓ you know, Merelise Wilson: Yeah. And did you have a like, so you said you had a doula. So I'm guessing you had done some research prior to actually going into labor about what sort of birth you wanted to have. That may be an assumption I'm making. Sarah: No, it's true. ⁓ had definitely, I'd done tons of research because you do that, especially with your first baby when you have all the time to do that. And my sister-in-law, she and her husband, Ned's brother, ⁓ they had had a baby like nine months before us, their first or their only, ⁓ and she had had a home birth. And so like, Merelise Wilson: Yes. Mmm. Sarah: I had seen her exploring that whole thing and then she would give me books and I knew I didn't want to have a home birth. She's the kind of person that hospitals scare her, she doesn't feel safe. I'm the kind of person where hospitals make me feel safe. And so I knew I didn't want that journey but ⁓ even though she did it, everything went fine, it was great for them. They had their baby in their apartment on Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sarah: off Melrose, you know, it's just so funny to think about. But I knew I wanted to have it in hospital, but I was like, as I'm doing all this research, I was like, I feel like I should be able to do this, like a natural birth, people say, which is really just like an unmedicated or how I feel like you said, when we talked, you said something low intervention. Yeah, yeah. Merelise Wilson: Hahaha Sarah: I can do this, like women have been doing this forever, for centuries and centuries and thousands and thousands of years. So, ⁓ and at some point during, I did get a birth doula, because I thought that would help me, you know, I didn't know how my husband was going to be. that was like my big question mark was like, I want someone there that's like, I don't know, I just didn't know how he was going to be. It turns out he's like, yeah. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. that you can like rely on. And not that you can't rely on Ned, but you just don't know, he's never witnessed birth. You don't know how he's gonna act. Sarah: Right. Yeah. Yeah. And so, um, and so she was awesome. And then at some point I was talking to my OB GYN and I was like telling her I really wanted to try for unmedicated birth. And it's kind like towards the, it was late in my pregnancy and she was like, you know, you should think about the midwives at UCLA has a midwife practice. And she was like, I think that would actually be a really good fit for you. And I was like, okay. And so I like went and met with them and, The way it works is like you meet with all the midwives at your appointment. each appointment you go to, you just get whatever midwife is there. So that by the time, hopefully that you go to the hospital, you've met all the midwives. Now I was like not because I'd started so late in my pregnancy seeing them. I had not met all of them, but I did end up switching over. And so I knew that like I was going to get to the hospital and there was going to be a midwife. And so. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Sarah: Yeah, is that so now kind of back to like, go to the hospital. And I was like, fully, you know, in labor, having contractions and stuff. I remember like the girl checking man was like, Oh, my God, are you on brothers and sisters? And I was like, Merelise Wilson: Yes. Yeah. Sarah: right now, please. I know I was like, yes, can you you know, and everything was just like her. Yeah, right. I know. I was so funny. And also backing up. just also remember like my husband driving to the hospital in the middle of the night. And I'm like, why now? Do you choose to go the speed limit? Like he was driving so slow. So slowly. He was like, Merelise Wilson: You're like, come on, I've got bigger things on my mind. You're like, please don't ask for a picture right now. Sarah: I guess being careful, I don't know, there's always that part that's like, I don't want to go there, you know, and that's probably, that was probably his way of like, I'm not ready yet, you know, but I was like, just hurry. Merelise Wilson: I know. subconscious. I feel like usually you hear about dads speeding, driving like bats out of hell to the hospital, but that's funny. Sarah: Yeah. I was like, yeah, why now? Are you all of sudden a perfect driver? Yeah. But ⁓ anyway, so then I got to the hospital and, ⁓ you know, they immediately started getting me checked in and stuff. it turned out it was the midwife that I like really connected with that was the super like kind of a little more like Merelise Wilson: Precious cargo. Sarah: Hippy dippy, like she had a nose ring and like woo woo. Like I knew she was like down for me to like dig into this, you know, and wasn't gonna like, I wasn't gonna need someone advocating not to get a epidural or whatever. She was just like, yeah, let's do this, you know. Merelise Wilson: Woo woo, yeah. Yes. right. connect to your inner birth goddess sorta. Sarah: Yeah, totally, totally. so yeah, got into a room and I just I remember my birth doula had like, there was stuff like she had like a 10s unit, which was really helpful for the contractions. Like, I don't know, I was I don't know exactly what they do. Because I don't, I'm not a birth doula. But she had like, you know, yoga ball and she had like, tools in her magic carpet bag. we, yeah, labored for like, I think it was maybe, it was pretty long. Like it was into the next day, it, like the sun came out, it was like pretty. And I was like, I can't do this anymore. I'd been in and out of the shower. And I remember like both. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: her and the midwife were like, you're doing it, you're doing it, you can, because you're doing it. And I was like, ⁓ okay. Like I wanna, I know, but it did kind of keep me going. ⁓ And so then at one point, like, so I remember like, do you want me to get into like the gory details or how much do people like to hear? Merelise Wilson: Yeah. I know it's not exactly what you want to hear in that moment. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Like all the fluids, all the great details, absolutely, yes. Sarah: Okay. ⁓ so I just remember like, couldn't, needed to pee. Like I felt like I needed to pee and I couldn't because everything was just like so mush pressed, compressed down there. And so, and I was like, I'm just so uncomfortable because I need to pee and I can't every time I would go and try to go to the bathroom, nothing would come out. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: And so they were like, why don't we put a catheter in and that way we can just empty your bladder for you. And I was like, okay. And they did that I was like, ⁓ thank you. That's so much better. And so a little bit later, like not that much later, I was like sitting on the, just for some reason, remember I had like gotten to a new position. I was sitting kind of on the edge of the bed. I actually think my husband has a picture of this, like right before this, the moment right before this thing happened. I will. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. You'll have to send it. Yeah. Sarah: I think it's pretty, yeah, I don't think anything weird showing that I'm making like this crazy expression on my face, but all of a sudden I was just like, oh, I'm like, oh, I'm peeing, I'm peeing on the bed, I'm sorry. like, I feel like just wet, warm, like all over the bed. was like, I'm sorry, I peed on the bed. And they were like, oh no, we just emptied your bladder. That's not pee, your amniotic sack broke, your water broke. And I was like, Merelise Wilson: Yeah Yeah. Yes. Sarah: ⁓ duh. Okay. I'm like, I feel so much better now. Like that was really what all that pressure was. And, and so ⁓ then right after that, like they're starting to, you know, clean up the, what I thought was P but was the amniotic fluid. And there was like this kind of yellowish brownish like stuff. It was, it was like clear. Merelise Wilson: Ha ha! Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sarah: And then like kind of in the middle of it on the sheet and stuff, there was like all this stuff, which I had no idea what it was, of course, but they were like, yeah, so you're, he, the meconium, ⁓ he already like pooped his meconium. And I was like, ⁓ and I had read about that. So I kind of knew that was like not great, like not supposed to happen. They're supposed to have the meconium supposed to come out outside of. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Sarah: the body, while they're in utero. And so I also just had a flash of like another funny memory of like, every time I would have a contraction, I'd be like, buddy, oh buddy, come on. Like I kept calling my son buddy. And I remember the nurse at one point was like, is that his name, buddy? I was like, no. I mean, no offense to buddies, but like out there, it's a cute name, but it was, no, it was not our name. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yes. ⁓ Hahaha What a character, what, right. What am I thinking of? What movie is it where there's a character with where there's a buddy? I think that's probably what I'm thinking of. Okay, yeah, so you're like, no, his name is not buddy. Sarah: a name yet, I was it was really funny. like, no, that's not his name. But ⁓ anyway, and so at that point, after the, the, that we'd realized the whole meconium thing, ⁓ the vibe shifted a little bit in the room. Like they were very calm, but there was like, Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Sarah: discussions of like, let's get the birthing stool. And then the midwife being like, ⁓ I think we need, or let's get her on like different positions. The doula would suggest. And then the midwife was like, well, I think we probably should avoid that. Like it was this kind of, and I was like, I got this vibe that like something was not totally okay. And so, ⁓ they kind of gave me a heads up, like as I'm getting pretty close, they were like, Merelise Wilson: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: there's gonna be a pediatric team coming in just to, you know, make sure that, check them out, make sure everything's cool, cause the meconium I mean, I think they would do that maybe anyway, I'm not sure. I don't remember what they do. Cause it was my first time, so. Merelise Wilson: Mm-hmm. ⁓ I'm trying to think there's always a baby team. Yeah. There's always, there's usually always a baby team in the delivery room ready. I think sometimes the baby team is specifically like a NICU team if they think that there's going to be something. Okay. Sarah: I think it must've been that because like when I had my daughter, none of it, don't like, remember there being so few people in the room. Like it was a little scary. It was the total opposite. So like, when I talk about they're like, people are going to come in. was like 10 people. Cause also UCLA is a teaching hospital. So there are all these like students and stuff too. And, and like they're over there kind of dealing with the baby station. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah, the reverse. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ gosh. Yeah. Sarah: And I'm like, you know, pushing, had, they gave me oxygen. ⁓ cause I, I, I was pushing for like, I think it was actually only like an hour, but it felt like it was, I mean, it was, there was, there were definitely like hard part of the labor, but then the pushing was like a different kind of pain. was like, yeah, it was more like searing pain kind of. Merelise Wilson: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's so interesting. I agree. Like I think when I think back My my labor pain It's just like a preference thing. I feel like labor was harder for me It wasn't as much of that sharp searing pain But I think it was that mental aspect of not knowing when it was gonna end. So like that was harder for me So even though pushing was more painful technically, I just Sarah: You knew you were at the end? Merelise Wilson: Yeah, so I was like, okay, I can handle this. It was like the unknown of how much more of the labor pain that like drove me crazy. But yeah. Sarah: Yeah. mean, and it was funny, the pushing, like there's a learning curve, right? Like, you know, the first few times it was like, it's, it's almost like now as a doula, like when I'm helping breast with breastfeeding or like there's this dance kind of that's going on and like the timing of the contraction and your breathing and the pushing and all that stuff. Like it takes a couple, there are a few attempts where it's like, Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Sarah: It's not working kind of. And then it will, yeah, then it just starts to come together. It's like you kind of learn the choreography and then you get it and make it more to make it more effective. Each push. Merelise Wilson: Yeah, well it's almost like... Go ahead. Yes, was gonna say almost exactly that. I was gonna say it's like a dance move or anything physical. You have to practice it a couple of times before you get like the rhythm, you know, and like the hang of it. And I feel like pushing is like the same way. If you've never done it, you don't know like where to connect from, where to push from, like what is actually going to be productive. And so I totally get what you're saying. Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Or I'm thinking of like, like when I'm, I've started like weight training in the gym or like in the last and like, we'll get a new move. And it's like, with, you know, a barbell and like weights. And it's like, if you lift with the wrong muscles, it feels really hard. And then when you like do the exercise, right, you're like, ⁓ this is not that hard, you know, it's, it's yeah. ⁓ but also I was like, Merelise Wilson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yes, totally. Yes, it like clicks. Yeah. Sarah: working my ass off, I've got oxygen and all these doctors in there. I'm like, no one's even looking at me. Does no one see what I'm doing over here? Which meanwhile, they're just trying to get ready for my baby who, spoiler alert, is not gonna look good when he comes out. I mean, I felt like in this moment, it was more like... Merelise Wilson: Yeah. and where is Ned throughout all this? Is he like sticking up close to your head or? Sarah: the doula and the midwife were really like involved and oh, the midwife, had had a, there was a shift change. So, cause I came in, you know, in the middle of the night, like 7 a.m. there's a new midwife on and it ended up being like the total opposite of the midwife that was there. The young woo woo one. was like the one that was like the most seasoned. I think she was head of the midwifery department at UCLA. Like she was like. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ wow. Sarah: has delivered a gazillion babies and she was very like, doctorly, you know, like, I mean, she was there to like, she wasn't trying to talk me out of anything. She was totally supportive of my birth preferences and everything, but she was like, she was definitely making sure that baby was coming out safe and not that the other one would have been, she would have been that way too, I'm sure, but. Merelise Wilson: Matter of fact. Right. Sarah: Anyway, it was just funny. was like, felt like I had the right midwives at the right times. You know, I like totally trusted this woman that she knew what she was doing. ⁓ And so then, ⁓ yeah, he came out and they like immediately, like I said, like they weren't, they wanted me to like be on my back because they needed him to come out, like not agitated. They didn't want him to cry because apparently, Merelise Wilson: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Hmm. Sarah: then they can aspirate more of the meconium. So they like took him out like very gently almost like set him down and I'm just kind of laying there like what's going on. think Ned was like, Ned was taking pictures because I didn't have a photographer. He was the photographer and he was like, I mean all these pictures of like docked all these people in the room and stuff. don't know. Anyway, that's my memory of him in that moment kind of. Merelise Wilson: Okay. Yeah. Hey. Yeah. Did they tell you? Sorry. Sarah: I mean, he was excited, I guess. I don't know. I don't really remember what he was doing. It's funny. Did they tell me what? Merelise Wilson: Did they tell you that when he was born, when the baby was born, that they weren't gonna place them on your chest? Were they like, okay, as soon as he's born, we're going to take him and check him? was it just kind of, mm-hmm. Sarah: I think, I think they did. I think they kind of prepped me with that, that they were going to have to do that. But I was not expecting what happened next, which was them wrapping him up and then coming over and going, like holding them right by my face, going, here's your baby. And I was like, ⁓ and I went and I tried to kiss him and they took him away. And I was like, and then Ned kind of looks at me and I was like, Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: He's like, what do do? was like, go, go, go with the baby. And so, ⁓ God, it makes me, every time I talk about this, I tell this story, I get choked up. Sorry. It's crazy how 16 years later can still be upsetting, but it was so upsetting. It's like the most unnatural thing in the world to like, for your baby. that was, that was what was funny with the Sally I was saying earlier. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah, no, don't apologize. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: ⁓ I've been listening to Sally Fields, ⁓ autobiography. It's called in pieces. And she taught she just this morning, I was listening to her describe telling her birth story of her first child. And she said, she was describing like, that's what they used to do. Like back in the sixties and you know, prior to that, like, and she was, she said, you know, I didn't say anything and I wanted to say, give me my damn baby. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Sarah: But that's how I felt. You're supposed to be holding your baby. I had done all this research. I was prepared for any kind of birth. I was like, I'm so open. I'll do whatever. But every birth video ends with a mom holding their baby. The mom and the birthing partner. mean, sometimes it's just a mom, but it's usually a mom and a dad or two moms. Merelise Wilson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sarah: Even two dads with the surrogate, there's always a baby in someone's arms. And I was like, where's my baby? Why is my baby not my arms? And so, they took them away. And then I remember, you know, being having to lie there and I just stunned waiting, like immediately like pain and stuff has kind of gone away. They still have to deliver my placenta. And I remember like, Merelise Wilson: Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sarah: the midwife starts like that, think that was kind of not that big of a deal. It was kind of like compared to delivering a baby, was like, didn't really feel like much. But she had, she was like, you have some tearing, like I had tearing like inside, which I didn't even know could happen. Like that was another, and that was what that searing pain was. I think was like the walls were kind of like. Merelise Wilson: Yeah, right, it just kind of slides out. Hmm... Yeah. Mmm, that makes sense. Sarah: the skin, the tissue inside the walls was tearing. And so she was like, I'm gonna sew that up. But she starts poking me and I was like, I do not have an epidural. And she was like, Oh, right, gosh, sorry. I was like, like, Oh, right, let me give you some light again. I know. I mean, she didn't get very far. But I was like, ow. She was like, yeah. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Ugh. ⁓ my god, that's awful. ⁓ jeez. Pause, pause! Sarah: Yeah, so she, they numbed me up and then sewed me up a little bit. ⁓ But yeah, so he had had meconium aspiration. His Apgar scores, which is like the tests, you know, they do for the newborn were really low. can't remember what they were, but it was like two threes, like bad. And ⁓ I remember like seeing a picture of him. He was just like flopped on the table. Like he wasn't like. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: scrunched up like moving around at all. He was just like flopped out and they ⁓ decided to intubate him because he wasn't breathing well and they intubated him and he was in the NICU. I didn't get to go down there until that was like 2 p.m. and I think they let me go down there like that night but I couldn't hold him. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Sarah: Cause I still, think by then they maybe had, he had like ripped out his breathing tube. So I don't think he was on anymore. Can you still hear me? Okay. I thought I was, yeah, I was just worried. batteries were dying in my headphones or something because you got quiet, but okay. Yeah. And so they, ⁓ yeah, I didn't, I, saw him. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Can you hear me? ⁓ no, you're good. I'm just listening. Sarah: And it was so sad. Like, I mean, it should be a happy moment. It was just like, so sad when I think about it, which I hate. But, ⁓ and then I guess, you know, I went, I slept in my, in my labor and delivery room, by myself, my husband stayed with me. I just like cried all night long. It was terrible. And then the next morning I went down there. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. No. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sarah: Like as soon as I woke up, they were like, let me go down to see him. And I remember one of the NICU nurses, they are amazing. Big shout out to those NICU nurses. Yeah. I mean, truly, like that was the initial inspiration for my husband becoming a nurse later was, was the, NICU nurses ⁓ because they were so incredible. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Angels. Yeah. Hmm. Ugh. Sarah: ⁓ this nurse, we came in, she was holding him and she was like, there you are. She was like, this baby just needs to be held. And she was like, come on, you know, like gave him over right away, gave him to me. She had been like, I think she'd been holding him all night long, which is so sweet. ⁓ but it's true. It's like what they need. They just, they just need to be held, you know, and he needed to be with his mom. so. Merelise Wilson: ⁓ ⁓ my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: After that, like we had a little scare. I think like the next day he kind of spiked a temperature and they were worried that he maybe had, had gotten meningitis. Cause a lot of times the meconium aspiration can then cause a secondary infection. And this, this was after the second night. I remember the nurse was like, he's got a really high pitched cry and that, you know, might just be his cry, but that's also an indicator of pain. Merelise Wilson: Mm. Hmm. Sarah: And it's all we have to go off because they can't talk. So yeah. And so she was like, um, the doctors, you know, were explaining like, so we want to do a spinal tap to make sure he doesn't have meningitis, which was horrible. thankfully they did it like at five in the morning when I wasn't even there, which makes me sad, but also like, I don't know if I could have watched that or taken that. Yeah. Um, Merelise Wilson: can't talk, yeah. ⁓ my god. Mmm. seen that. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: And they started him on a different antibiotic. and then after that, like he, he was kind of doing fine. And like, you know, it was, it was, it would gotten sort of into this rhythm. I was like pumping all the time. would breastfeed at the hospital and then pump. I feel like maybe at first I was, there was some pumping because I remember pumping at the hospital, which is weird. Maybe I was doing that before I could. Merelise Wilson: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: Maybe that was like the overnights when I wasn't with him. was in the NICU and I was still in labor and delivery or something. I don't know. I can't remember. um, and then, but, you know, they discharged me from the hospital to the NICU and we stay with them all day. And then we went home at night and it was God, like, again, like the most unnatural thing leaving the hospital without your baby. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. It truly is. It is. Sarah: is it's, it's just, yeah, it's wrong. And then I remember like two days later, my like best friend who lived down the street from me had a baby two days after mine. And going down to her house to meet her baby, she was already coming home from the hospital and my son was still in the NICU. It was just like tragic. But anyway, he was fine. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: towards the end it was like, just get this baby out of here. He was like the healthiest baby in the NICU, which was such a like blessing. Cause you see these babies in the NICU that are so tiny. mean, tiny. He was an eight pound, two ounce baby. looked, he was, he looked, he looked enormous and he was, you know, he was great. He was doing great. So, ⁓ yeah, we, yeah. Like once he, they kind of Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Right? Yeah, he's probably the biggest baby there. Was it just his breathing that kind of kept him there for a while? Sarah: switched the antibiotic and he seemed to turn a corner. And so they were like, we just want to keep them on that full course of antibiotics. And it was like IV antibiotics. So they had to keep them there for 10 more days. So he was there for 12 days total. and, ⁓ yeah. So, but I remember like, you know, when he came home, like it was just such this like blurry of like craziness when he was in the hospital. And one night we were, we were like, he seemed out of the woods. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: We were there and the nurses, the NICU nurses are like, you know, you guys can like go out to dinner, go have a drink. Like he's fine. He's here. He's safe. He's fine. I remember we went, yeah. And there, and so they, my husband and I left and we went to Chili's and I had one margarita and I was like, woo. And yeah. And then the next day, Merelise Wilson: Hmm. Yeah. He's got the most qualified babysitters you could find. Hahaha Yeah. Sarah: I mean, not the next day, then, you know, a few days later we took him home and, know, I was able to like heal and rest and there were like definitely benefits to it, but it was very hard. ⁓ Speaking of, there's my, my nurse husband coming home from a house call. So, ⁓ thank you. ⁓ Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Aww. Sarah: feel like I'm taking so long on this birth, but this was definitely the more exciting one. ⁓ And then, you know, I feel like there's just been constant healing from that whole thing. It's a birth story, to me, felt like, because I had a good ending, it's not really like birth trauma. But clearly, I still have. Merelise Wilson: No. Yeah. Yeah. No, I know. I talk about that a lot with people that I think so often we are trained to say, healthy baby, healthy mom, you everything's good. Like, I don't have anything to be sad about or to complain about. And we sweep things under the rug if it's not like, you know, horrible. And the reality is like, you can very much have a healthy baby, healthy mom and still have trauma. you know, tied to it. And I felt the same way. It took me a long time to realize after my first birth that I had some trauma tied to it as well for similar reasons being separated and having to go home without him. And yeah, it's so real. It's so real and it's so raw. And I related so much to you when you got teary. It made me teary because it's just, it's the most unnatural thing. It's exactly what you said. Yeah. Sarah: Mm-hmm. Yeah, which then on the flip side, I can now jump ahead to my second birth, which will be a shorter story, but I remember ⁓ my daughter, I didn't know his daughter as we've discussed, ⁓ I've seen the midwives from the beginning of that time. I had said, I mean, I wanna do unmedicated if I can, like know I can, I've done it once, but also like, whatever, I've done it. I was like, I just wanna- Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, right. Check that box. Yeah. Sarah: I just wanna hold my baby. I just wanna hold my baby in the end. That's all I care about. And so. Merelise Wilson: It's interesting how your priorities change based on your prior birth experiences. So your order of operations was different going into this one. Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, and also, you know, was like, no, there was no parade. I didn't get a medal like no one. Merelise Wilson: I know. I agree, although my husband does like to brag on me for having, ⁓ yeah, so that's the closest thing I've gotten to a medal is he likes to tell everyone. Sarah: Yes, yeah, that's true. It is true. Yeah. And also I just, I mean, I have that constant reminder, like, and passing on my children of like, we can do hard things. Like I know, like I, that was probably one of the hardest things and hard things happen and like, we can do hard things. So yeah. Um, but, uh, and so I had gone to the midwife and I was measuring really small, like, you know, they measure your, the bundle measurement or whatever it's called. Merelise Wilson: Yes. I say that to my kids all the time. I love that we can do hard things, yes. The Fondle height, yeah. Sarah: Yeah, funnel height. And my husband's cousin is an OBGYN and she would check in like, how's your appointment? And she knew all the midwives and stuff. And I was like, well, it was good. was like, I'm measuring really small though. And I kind of was telling her and she was like, you're measuring whatever it was and you're this many weeks. And I was like, no, I'm measuring this and I'm this many weeks. And she was like, and she kind of like, can I look at your chart? Do you mind if I go? Merelise Wilson: Mm-hmm. Sarah: She worked at UCLA. was like, sure. And she goes in, she was like, do you want to go see my friend Erica? She's, she's the, be GYN. Like you can just pop in. I'll, I'll see if she'll just do a quick ultrasound. And I was like, okay. Like it seemed kind of like she wanted me to do that. Yeah. And so I went to see Erica again, ultrasound. And she was like, yeah, your, your amniotic fluid is really low. And. Merelise Wilson: Do I need to? Yeah, yeah. Sarah: I think I had an appointment like the next day with the midwives. I like it. I was like 30 at that point. think I was like 39 weeks. Yeah, I was very close and I was like, okay, so what's that mean? And she was like, we need to get this baby out. And I was like, well, I'm like, I'm seeing the midwives tomorrow. Can we just, you know, see what they say? And she was like, no, we need to like this baby will Merelise Wilson: Yeah. And how many weeks were you? Okay, it's pretty close. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: just do better on the outside than the inside at this point. And I'm like, okay, well, do we need to do it like, when do we need to do this? Like soon? And she was like, like right now. I was like today? She was like, yeah, like right now. And I was like, what? Yeah. And I remember like Ned happened to be nearby. He didn't go with me, but he happened to be on campus at UCLA. Cause he was visiting like some, his old EMT professor. Merelise Wilson: Mm. Right. You're like, am I having a C-section? Like, what do you mean? Like, yeah. Yeah. Sarah: And he was, and I called him and he, so he was able to like come right over and we talked to the, the OB was like, do you want to call the midwives on call at labor and delivery and just see what they say? And I was like, I kind of do. Like I wasn't questioning them, but I kind of wanted to make sure like the midwives would have to make the same call. And they, and so I called and it was one of the midwives that I had seen a bunch and she was like, yeah, you need to. Merelise Wilson: Right, right. Sarah: come in. I was like, I mean, is this what you would have done? She was like, ⁓ yeah. Like, ⁓ yeah. I'm like, okay. So I was like, do I have to come right now? Like I wasn't planning to go to hospital. And they were like, you can go home and pack a bag, but like, come right back. Yes, yes, I had Yeah, exactly. And luckily, my mother-in-law, like was in Palm Springs. So she drove in. He was at school. So she was able to like, we worked all that out. And I came home and Merelise Wilson: figure out childcare, like for your older. Sarah: like took a shower and spent like forever trying to pick out my outfit I was gonna wear to the hospital. I was gonna immediately take off and put on a gown. It was ridiculous, but it was like my husband driving slow. That was my version of it. Like, I'm not ready. I don't wanna go. Yeah. Yeah. And on the way to the hospital, I remember we got a flat tire and I know like flat, like could not drive. And we happened to be like right next, there was like a Porsche dealership. We did not have a Porsche, but we. Merelise Wilson: Yeah Yes, trying to slow things down. Yeah. ⁓ god. ⁓ Sarah: pulled in the Porsche dealership and I had to like pretend I was in labor so that they would, we were like, we're on the way to the hospital and I'm like faking, like doing some of my worst acting, I'm sure, trying to pretend like I was in labor so that they, and they were like, ⁓ my gosh, yeah, so they changed our tire real quick and we went to the hospital. like, as I was saying, leaving the hospital without your baby is so unnatural. is equally unnatural. Merelise Wilson: I love it. Sarah: arriving at the hospital, not in labor. It was so weird. was just like, this is really like, no, we're going to have a baby. I'm, it was very strange checking in like totally different experience of just like very casually signing things and you know, yeah, kind of, but it was scary and it was, it was, it was different. ⁓ but, ⁓ they did like, ⁓ Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Right? Right, like you're checking in for a hotel stay, you know? Yeah. Sarah: got me kind of situated, we decided to do Cervidil which is like the suppository that just to kind of like jumpstart, because I was so close, they were like, let's see, you you may just your body may take over and just you'll go into labor yourself. And I think I was like around 4pm or so in the afternoon when we got to the hospital by like eight was when they put the servadil in. And so we were just like hanging out watching TV and Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: Eventually like went to sleep and I had been like, had been studying hypnobirthing through that whole pregnancy, which yeah, someone had told me about it and I was like, ⁓ that's cool. I kind of want to try that. And so, I mean, I didn't think it was working. I would put these things, these headsets on and listen to these CDs or whatever they were at the time and like immediately fall asleep. So I didn't feel like, I didn't know how it was, what it was doing, but Merelise Wilson: Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: when I was in actually in the hospital, I would like, you know, kind of use what was that first part of the, what I remembered before I fell asleep of the hypnobirthing. And it's sort of like, it's a lot of visualization and like, so I'd feel like these contractions coming on, they weren't crazy, but like, I would feel them coming on. And that's like on a couch snoozing away. And I'm like, yeah. And. Merelise Wilson: Right. Right, oblivious. Sarah: And I would picture myself like walking down this long hallway, like as the pain was like kind of, or the contraction was like coming on. And then I get to the like end of the hallway and open a door and there was a room. They kind of tell you to visualize this stuff. And then, and there was this couch, which in the room, and it was like one of my best friends who was also having a baby. Her baby came like two weeks before mine. We were pregnant, but same time. Merelise Wilson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sarah: And she'd had this couch forever. And it was this huge leather couch. And that was the couch in the room. And I would go to the couch and I'd sit on the couch and just like sink in the couch. And I look up and it was like all my girlfriends. Like I kept seeing their faces throughout the whole night. Like every time I'd have a contract, it was so weird. It was like all my women like around me. ⁓ yeah, it was cool. And I got through the night and Merelise Wilson: Uh-huh. Aww. That's so cool. I love that. Sarah: You know, I like went in the shower and I was just like doing it by myself, I felt like at that time. We had no doula, no birth doula. And ⁓ the next morning the nurse came on and it was the same labor and delivery nurse that I'd had with my first pregnancy, which was wild. And she was pregnant, ⁓ like pretty pregnant with her first baby when I was having my son. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. So cool. Sarah: So this time around, know, there was like, ⁓ my gosh, yeah, she's almost four. Like my son was four and she was almost, her child was almost four. And it was really comforting. Like she was so sweet. I wish I could remember her name, which I hate. I'm sure it's written down somewhere, but anyway. ⁓ And so like there was again, a shift change, a new midwife came in and she was the one midwife that I had not met, which was. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sarah: kind of unfortunate, she was not, I know, and she was not around because she was like delivering babies in the outback, literally. She's like from Australia, New Zealand or something. she was like this hardcore. And she was like, okay, so here's what we're gonna do. You're gonna go back in the shower and we're gonna, know, whatever. She's like, we're gonna break your waters. It was terrible. Merelise Wilson: It always happens like that. Yeah. That was a great Australian accent you just slipped into. I'm very impressed. No, that was great. No. Sarah: She'd be like, we're going to break your waters. She kept calling me your waters. It's like, um, and I was like, Oh my God, I cannot go back in the shower. I've been in the shower for 12 hours. Like, so I'm like, we're in a drought. It's California. What are you? can't go in the shower again. Um, she was like, have some lunch, go in the shower. We'll break your water. Like whatever, like this whole plan. And then after you do all that, if things still haven't kicked back in. Merelise Wilson: waters, Yeah. Hahaha Mm-hmm. Sarah: Cause it kind of like slowed down. Like stuff was not really happening. She was like, well, break your water. If things pick up great. If not, you know, we'll give you an epidural and give you some Pitocin and get the baby out. And she left the room. I think I was like, there was some, there was movement. Like I was not like, they weren't going to send me home there. I remember there was a little bit of discussion of like, they weren't going to send me home. And there was kind of some tension between Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Do remember how dilated you were? Mm-hmm. Mmm. Sarah: the OB and the midwife, because the OB was sort of like, she's here for a reason. I remember her being like, we need to get this baby out. And the midwife is sort of like, yeah, but like, she's fine. Like give her some time, you know? So she's like trying to advocate for me, I felt like. But then she leaves and I was like, and the nurse who I knew, she was like, if you want to get your epidural, if you want to get an epidural now, Merelise Wilson: Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: you can totally do that. And I was like, I kind of do. I just want to get this baby out. I'm so tired. It's been like almost 24 hours at this point that I've been awake because like I woke up the morning before not knowing I was going to hospital. So I'd been up the whole day before and now it's like, you know, it's been over 24 hours. And so I go to, um, she was like, fine. So she went and told her and they were like, okay, great. So the next thing I know, it's like, I think I, Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Ugh. Right. Yeah. the next day. Sarah: I don't know. Anyway, they, they got that going pretty soon after I got the epidural, like four. No, I think that was around four, maybe when they decided to do that. And then it takes forever. Like once you decide you're going to epidural to get it anesthesiology, like it was like hours before anyone actually came in to do anything. But, ⁓ I think it was like around eight when it finally, like, was really like, okay. Merelise Wilson: Ugh. Right. Sarah: the turn the water spigot on or whatever. And I was like, ⁓ my gosh, this is crazy. you just, it just stops. Like you don't feel anything. And I just like was able to go to sleep. Yeah. They, they started getting the Pitocin So I was starting to have contractions and you could see them. And I, I, remember like when I had, when I was laboring with my first, this is like one those weird things that nobody told me. And maybe it doesn't happen to everyone, but Merelise Wilson: Yeah. so wild. Yeah. Uh-huh. Sarah: Every time I was going to have a contraction, my body would start like shaking violently. And then I would, and I would, and I would say to Ned, I was like, okay, Ned, there's another one. Cause I was like shaking. And then he would like come to me and we had this like ritual. This was with the first one. And the second time that started happening after I got the epidural and the game into pitocin and things were really kicking in, was shaking, but then it was not painful. I couldn't. Merelise Wilson: Wow. Wow. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm. but you couldn't feel weird. ⁓ my gosh. Sarah: It was really weird and I was like, I wasn't expecting like the epidural takes the pain away, but I would still have like waves of nausea and I'd have the shaking and like, it doesn't take away all the things. Merelise Wilson: right. Right. It just isolates the single symptom of pain, but you have all the other symptoms still. Interesting. Yeah. Sarah: Right. Yeah, it was weird. ⁓ So I would still like know a contraction was coming because I was, mean, that went on ⁓ for hours, you know, and then, it progressed. They like bumped it up again. I remember the nurse that time she was like, I only do like half like of the pitocin. She, she was like conservative with how much and then it was like, nah, we need to bump it up. I'm like, I just want to, I finally was like, I just want to hold my baby. I don't care. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: how this happens, can we just get this baby out? And they're like, ⁓ yeah. They're like, ⁓ we can get this baby out. crank up the pitocin. And then like four hours later, the, like from the beginning of the epidural to, and the pitocin to, it was now like almost midnight. And they're like, okay, you're ready to push. And it was like dark. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. You're like, me full of whatever it takes. Like, let's do this. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: It was total opposite for when my son was born. was like dark. They just had like one little light on. It was me, my husband, this, we had like the hippiest L and D nurse this time, cause we had another shift change. So now it was a new person. She was like, you're going to be dancing with your baby in no time. She was so cute. But, ⁓ and the, and the midwife and I came time to push. think I, I, Merelise Wilson: Yeah. So nice. Yeah. I love it. Sarah: push like four times maybe, like it was 10 minutes, it was really quick. And like the baby was coming out and the midwife knew that my husband was, he was an EMT, he wasn't a nurse yet at this point, but she knew he was in the EMT and she was like, dad, you wanna catch a baby? And so he got in there and he got to catch her and they put her right on me, they let him cut the umbilical cord. Merelise Wilson: Mm-hmm. ⁓ that's so cool. ⁓ Sarah: I remember my husband was trying to call his mom and he accidentally FaceTimed her. Merelise Wilson: ⁓ You're like legs wide open like just had a baby. Sarah: I'm FaceTiming my mother-in-law like at midnight, which is not what I wanted to be doing in that moment I was like, well, ⁓ but anyway, and then, yeah, we have like no pictures. It's like the total opposite. It's so funny. Like there's one picture and it's like of my chin and the baby's face like right here. ⁓ It was just, it was just so It was like total opposite. And Merelise Wilson: ⁓ Yeah. Really? ⁓ Yeah. Sarah: you know, they sent me, they sent me the labor and delivery with my baby. And I remember being like, so I'm sure these nurses are like, you are an idiot. was like, so I, do I just like change her and feed her and like do everything myself, like feed her whenever. And they were like, yeah, it's your baby. And I was like, Merelise Wilson: Right? Yeah, she's yours! Sarah: Yeah. And I was like, I didn't have my baby. Like I didn't come to labor and delivery with my baby last time. So I have no idea what, what is supposed to happen here. I was literally in labor and delivery the whole time with no baby. So they were like, ⁓ gosh, right. Yeah. Like they kind of, but I remember she was a little like bristly about that. Like, yeah, you feed your baby. Merelise Wilson: Right. Yeah, no, it's valid. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: At one point I think I was just I would not put her down my baby. ⁓ and it was girl which we we jumped ahead but I was like just holding her and then of course falling asleep and so I remember someone coming in and being like Like right here and they put her in the little safe, you know isolate or whatever they call that bassinet thingy and and Yeah, we took her home. It was like to you whatever normal that one was like Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Bassadet. Yeah. Sarah: totally normal and very different. ⁓ But yeah, that's kind of the conclusion, I think, of those long rambling stories. Merelise Wilson: No, I love it. It sounds like the second one. It's interesting because I feel like a lot of times you hear, we talked about this ⁓ when we spoke before, but a lot of times I hear about people who have an epidural with their first birth and then they don't like that experience and so they decide to kind of go the low intervention route with the second and you were flip-flopped. And I love that you had an amazing experience like with the epidural. Sarah: Yeah. Merelise Wilson: And it sounds like it was a really, it was, well, it was, feel like it was an informed decision that you made, like, and you had your reasons for wanting to do it and get it. And then you ended up having what sounds like a very like healing, redemptive birth experience. Sarah: Yeah, I did. And it was, mean, I think for the same reasons that people, like you said, flip-flop and kind of want to try it with, without the second time I was like, I kind of want to try it with, like I want to see. Yeah. Like, it, you know, and ⁓ I mean, I think that overall it was easier and an easier birth just because. Merelise Wilson: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, what all the fuss is about. Sarah: I mean, she was a pound smaller. She was like a week earlier. He was like almost a week late. She was almost a week earlier. So, you know, there were diff, there were, there were a lot of factors weighing into like why the whole thing just was kind of smooth. It was a little long as hell. thought for sure, like, oh, my second baby, it'll go fast. And it was, yeah, but it was like, you know, 30 hours, I think from, yeah. And the first one was like 14. So. Merelise Wilson: Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Right, they always say. to you. Sarah: It was, it was long, but, um, but yeah, I mean, everything else, everything just, it's like your body just kind of remembers in a way to, think like the pushing, like we were saying, even with the epidural, like I was able to immediately my body remembered like how to effectively push. Yeah. Whereas like I didn't have that learning curve that I'd had the first time. Merelise Wilson: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Right, like muscle memory almost. Yeah. Sarah: I was just like, oh yeah, I know how to do this. Yeah. Yeah. Merelise Wilson: That makes sense. Yeah. And then what was postpartum like for you? With both of them, I guess. Sarah: Um, really hard with my firsts. I did not know what I was doing. I thought like, I have all this experience babysitting nieces and nephews and everything. And, but I did not, and I'd read so much about, you know, pregnancy and births and what size fruit my baby was and all this stuff. And I had like not read anything about what to do with the baby after. Um, Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: And you think like, ⁓ it's just changing diapers and giving them a bath and feeding them. And it's like, there's so much more, right? There's so much more to it than that, which I think is what like led me to the work that I'm doing now as a postpartum doula, because I, I, I just think, you know, surely I'm not the only one that didn't realize how hard it is to take care of a newborn. Merelise Wilson: Right. Yeah. Yes, no, it's a perfect transition. I'd love to talk about that. I mentioned that you are an actress, but you're also a postpartum doula. And I've had one other postpartum doula on the podcast before. But I would love if you could kind of just give everyone, I guess, a job description for lack of a better word. Like, what is the role of a postpartum doula for those that don't know? Sarah: ⁓ so a postpartum, think the word doula actually means like servant or teacher. and, which I love that. ⁓ but I, and I was aware of birth doulas, but I didn't realize that postpartum doulas were even like a thing until not that long ago. ⁓ but I start with families from the moment the baby's Merelise Wilson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sarah: born. Some families I start with like the day they come home from the hospital. Sometimes I'm joining the family when the baby's like four to six weeks old, but it's within the first three months, like that fourth trimester. ⁓ And I'm there to support the mom and the family and ⁓ it, our training encompasses like lactation, Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Sarah: screening for peri-mental mood disorders, ⁓ and then basic newborn care, which it's interesting because a lot of people that hire me, it's their second baby. ⁓ so it changes every job. If I've got a ⁓ first-time parent, I'm spending a lot more time with things like the first bath or ⁓ answering a lot of questions about everything. Merelise Wilson: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Yes. Sarah: Second time moms, a lot of times they've like got a toddler at home, they had a C-section or, know, and so, you know, with those families, I might spend more, a lot more time like cooking and, you know, doing laundry and tidying up and lot of dishes, washing bottles and pump parts and, and that sort of thing. And, ⁓ but just really like, I want to be there so that the mom and the dad or the Merelise Wilson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sarah: you know, the birthing parents can support, can bond with the baby. And I just try to eliminate, make that as easy as possible for them. So it covers a lot of things, you know, some, uh-oh, my headphones might be dying. Sometimes I just see the parent and I'm like, you need to go take a nap. Give me the baby, go take a nap. Merelise Wilson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sarah: and you know, shower if they need a shower or whatever and make sure they have their just fed and nourished, supported, can heal. And then, you know, by the end of the three months, like a lot of times the job in the beginning is very baby facing and I mean very mom facing or not even like I might just not even I'm in the kitchen a lot. And then by the end, I'm like with the baby a lot because mom's starting to, you know, get back to life. So Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sarah: And usually by then, like, you can just feel this natural, like, okay, I've done my job. It's time for me to move on. Yeah, yeah. Merelise Wilson: Yeah, time to exit. Yeah, it's so amazing. I agree. You mentioned that you were familiar with birth doulas and not as much postpartum and I was the same. And I think that's very common. think most people, think a lot of people don't know that postpartum doulas exist and it's such an incredible resource. I told you that I had the same postpartum doula with both of my kids and I adore her. She became like a close friend and ⁓ I always tell people whenever I have a friend or someone gets pregnant and they say, you know, what should I put on my registry? I'm like a postpartum doula. That's what you need. Like you don't need a bajillion onesies. I mean, you do. But, you know, like you you need a postpartum doula. It's such an incredible resource. And I feel like you kind of fill the role. I mean, so if you think about like in history until like recently, we kind of used to we used to live in Sarah: Yeah. Merelise Wilson: communities, right, with like multi-generational like living and grandparents and parents and kids all living together. And, you know, in modern times we've become like kind of more isolated in our individual like family units. And so I feel like the postpartum doula kind of serves a role that like a grandmother used to serve, you know, that lived with you. ⁓ And so they just provide that like nourishment and that care and that extra like level of support that is so critical in those early days. Sarah: Yeah. Merelise Wilson: But I mean, and it's you mentioned too that you help a lot of second time moms. And I remember when I was pregnant with my second, my husband and I were discussing if we were going to have Penny, our doula come back. because she mostly had focused with our first on like teaching us all the stuff like about babies. And it was so amazing. And I thought, well, I don't know. I kind of I've done it once. Like I know how to do it again. Right. But. Sarah: Yeah. Merelise Wilson: I just loved her and I was like, well, I'm gonna have her come back anyways. And then she stayed longer with the second baby than she did with the first. It's just, it's amazing. Sarah: Uh-huh. And the thing that I love about being a ⁓ doula versus ⁓ like my sister, being a mom or a sister or a grandmother, is as doulas we're trained non-judgmental. There's no judgment. However, this is you get to decide how you want to do things with your baby today. Merelise Wilson: Yes. Mm-hmm. Sarah: And you may decide tomorrow you want to do something different and that's fine. And, know, I can impart like experience, my experience with my own children, experience I've had with the billions of other babies, not billions, I haven't worked with billions, but you know, the dozens of other babies I've worked with. Yeah. you know, I try to provide like science backed data and not, not just opinion. ⁓ if the, especially if it's something that they're kind of struggling with, like a Merelise Wilson: Yes, many other. Yeah. Sarah: to do a tongue tie, a frenula release or yeah. But I don't care if you don't want to breastfeed, I don't care. Fed is best is what I say. I mean, I care, obviously I want to support whatever you want to do. And I remember when we were training, when I was training, my doula training, she told this story, she called it the ham story. And it was like this, I'll try to talk quickly, but it was like this. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yes. Yes. Right. Mm-hmm. Sarah: mom was getting ready for, it was a holiday. She's like prepping this ham and this little child comes in and the mom like waxed the leg off of this ham and puts it in the pan and the kid's like, yeah, why are you doing that? And she was like, I don't know. It's just what you do. Like go, go ask your grandmother. She's sitting in the, that's how my mother did it. Go ask your grandmother. And so she goes and she's like, grandma, why, you know, how did you do the ham? And she's like, ⁓ we like cut. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: cut the leg off and put it in the pan and did the describing. Why do you do that? She's like, well, that's how my mother did it. And then she goes to the go ask her your great grandmother and she goes to a great grandmother. Asked her she tells the same story and the little kids like, why did you do that? She's like, well, because the pan was too small. Merelise Wilson: Right? Yeah. Sarah: And it was like, nobody knew why they were whacking the foot off of this leg and they were just doing it because that's how their mother did it. But it was actually just like some, now you can just get a bigger pan. Like you don't actually have to do that, you know? Merelise Wilson: Right. Yeah. bright. Yes, I love that. I'm going to keep that one in my back pocket. That's a really good one. Sarah: Yeah, and so it's just really empowering of like, don't have to do it the way that your mom did it or your sister or your best friend or whatever. can, what works for you, if that works for you, then do it. So I love that. Merelise Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And some people are so, yes, I love that. I think a lot of times too, people, especially new moms are sensitive to advice from family, you know? It can be like a little bit of like a sensitive subject. And so I feel like the postpartum doula also can be that really non-judgmental kind of Switzerland, you know, but also informed. And the other thing I love too about the postpartum doula resources, I mean, like how many hours do you think new moms spend on Sarah: Yeah. Merelise Wilson: Google, like when their babies are first born. It's crazy, right? Every time they sneeze or get like a dot on their skin, you're like Googling, like, what is this? And that can be such a scary place to be. Like Dr. Google is not somewhere you want to be with postpartum brain. And so I always would just text my doula and say, like, send her pictures all the time. Be like, what is this? Like, what do think this is? How is the circumcision healing? You know? And you know, she's not a doctor, but she's seen enough babies that she can be like, Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Merelise Wilson: ⁓ yeah, that's normal or ⁓ you should go see a doctor or go to the ER, you know. And it was just such a relief to have that extra level of support and postpartum. Sarah: Yeah, that's yeah. Yeah. Yeah, totally. I mean, I do, like back to the birth stories, like I always kind of start with my family's like letting them process their birth story and the dads too, I mean, they have their own experience that can be really, sometimes it's more traumatic for the dad than the mom, you know, it's really hard to see the partner in that kind of. Merelise Wilson: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. Sarah: you know, in that state. ⁓ And, you know, sometimes it's me. This has kind of been fun for me because I don't, I'm not usually telling like this much of my story, but I mean, I do a lot of, lot of my intake visits, I do, ⁓ I do like to share the story with my first child, especially because, and I've had people say like, I'm so glad you told me that story because our baby ended up in the NICU and never would have occurred to me that I wouldn't be holding my baby at the end of this. Merelise Wilson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: so, I mean, you know, try not to freak them out, but, ⁓ yeah, it is. It's a lot of just, I feel like as a doula, I'm like a nonjudgmental listener and you can vent and say whatever, and you're not going to get like, well, we didn't do it that way when I, well, when I was, yeah. So, no, thank you. I love it. I really do. Merelise Wilson: Right. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yes. Yes. ⁓ It's such a gift that you give people. That's awesome. Sarah: It's great. It's fun. Yeah. And my kids, come home from work and they're like, you have the best job. Cause I always, you know, I'm showing them pictures of these cute babies that I, you know, just, yeah, all the snuggles and, and it's so fun when I'm with a family from like days old to three months, because by the three months they're, they're smiling at me. They're cooing, they're laughing. Like they know me and it's, it's. Merelise Wilson: You get all the baby snuggles. ⁓ Yeah. Yes. Sarah: It's hard when I have to say bye, especially one that I get really connected to, you know, but yeah. Merelise Wilson: I'm sure. Yes. ⁓ that's so special. ⁓ Well, I always like to end my episodes by bringing it back around to birth. And so I like to ask my guests to describe birth in three words. Whatever comes to mind, just like top of mind. Sarah: Yeah. Gosh, okay, describe birth in three words. ⁓ Unpredictable. Merelise Wilson: Yes. Sarah: I would say like magnificent ⁓ and powerful. I guess magnificent and powerful are kind of similar, I don't know. There's just this wonderment that comes with it. I remember being, when I had my son, I was just like, he's so cool. He's so cool. Merelise Wilson: Mmm. Yeah. I feel like there's nuance. I I mean, I still feel that way. I said to my husband last night, we have an 18 month old, so he's like in that in-between between baby and toddler. But I was looking at his little face and I looked at my husband and I was like, are you ever just like amazed that we made that? Like it's, you know, it's so, it's awe inspiring. It's wonderment. It's magnificent. Absolutely. Yeah. Sarah: Yeah, I know. Yeah, it's wild. know, wait till they're teenagers and you're watching them play their first rock show at a all ages club, which is what happened on. Oh yes, yeah, my son's a drummer. Yeah, it's wild. Yeah, cool. Well, this is fun. Merelise Wilson: I can only hope, ⁓ my gosh, my husband would love that. He's a drummer. ⁓ So he would, yeah, he would love that. ⁓ Well, it was so fun. Thank you so much for doing this, spending this time with me. I really appreciate it. Sarah: Yeah, I loved it. Thank you. Merelise Wilson: all right. Well, you've been listening to the rivals podcast until next time. All right. Let's stop recording real quick. It won't kick us off though. Sarah: Okay. ⁓