Latest / San Joaquin Sound / Willie Cantu Part 2: On the Road with Buck Owens and the Buckaroos

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Willie Cantu Part 2: On the Road with Buck Owens and the Buckaroos · San Joaquin Sound

0:06
If you listen to records or you listen to the
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radio, that is a very familiar sound. That happens
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to be the number one country record in the whole
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United States of America. This guy has had nine
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straight number one songs, and it's always a
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pleasure to have him back. Buck Owens and the
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Buckaroos. Go! Go! This is the San Joaquin Sound
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Podcast. the podcast about music in Bakersfield
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and the surrounding San Joaquin Valley. I'm your
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host, AJ Rodriguez. This is part two in a series
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of three episodes. They were all recorded over
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the past couple months over the phone with Willie
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Cantu, the drummer in Buck Owens and the Buckaroos'
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classic lineup in the 1960s. Part one covers
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his time growing up in Corpus Christi, Texas,
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and eventually joining the Buckaroos and some
1:02
of his first experiences as he moved to Bakersfield.
1:05
Part two covers his time with Buck Owens and
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the Buckaroos, touring the world and recording
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hit after hit. Part three covers his exit from
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the band and his subsequent journey in studying
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a bunch of other types of music, like Ghanian
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drumming and Scottish pipe band drumming, and
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even opening for Alice Cooper. So... In 1965,
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so I read in Buck Owen's autobiography that he
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was 302 days on the road that year, that it was
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the busiest year for the Buckaroos. You remember
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how crazy that was? 64 was the year. Oh, it would
1:44
have been 64? Okay. Because he told me on the
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phone when he called to ask me to join the band,
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he said that we would be out of town. At least,
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you know, something over 300 days a year. So
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he said, don't even bother getting an apartment.
2:05
You know, you'll be wasting your money. Just
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come stay out at the ranch, you know. Yeah. That's
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how it was. So, you know, we were out on the
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road, like he said, you know, a lot. And pretty
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well, all the jobs, say like 99 % of the jobs
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were clubs. He was still doing a lot of clubs
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then. Then after he had success with Together
2:30
Again and My Heart Skips a Beat, things changed
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for him. And probably 65 might have been a year
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that we started doing auditorium shows and bigger
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venues than the small club. But we still did
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a lot of clubs. Maybe by the second year, he
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started flying to jobs, meeting us at the venue,
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you know, and we would just drive there and catch
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up with him, you know, at the show. And then
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the third year, I mean, by then he was already
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pretty well established and really hit the big
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time. And so the whole band started flying as
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well as him. The more popular he got, The less
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enjoyment, musically, it became. Because he had
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more hits, and so he wouldn't do the complete
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songs. A lot of medleys? A lot of medleys, exactly.
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It became like a 45 to maybe an hour show, you
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know. And I was used to playing four or five
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hours, and that's what I enjoyed playing, you
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know. And I just wasn't, by the time I left,
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I was unhappy because I wasn't doing as much
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playing as I would want to. We should talk about
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some more about what it was like really living
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on the road for you. Because I know you went
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from being in a camper to a motorhome to a bus.
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Well, actually, no, we started with a motorhome.
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Oh, you started with the motorhome. Yeah, we
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started on the, it was a Dodge motorhome that
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he had. Within a couple of months or so, we were
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up north and it was already winter where we were
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in Western Canada, blizzard type weather. And
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somehow Don was driving. Somehow he made a mistake
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and we ended up off the road a bit. And so it
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did something to the suspension system of the
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motorhome. Someone in the area that knew us transported
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us to an airport or something, and we left the
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motorhome behind, and we went on to Aggie or
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something, or maybe we went back to Bakersfield.
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I can't really remember. But that was pretty
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well the end of the motorhome, and so Buck had
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the two... pickup trucks with campers on them.
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And so the band rode in the camper and Buck started
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flying. And I think we did that for maybe a couple
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of years until we finally got a bus. That's the
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sequence that I remember. But, you know, it was
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no big deal riding in the camper. You know, it
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was usually one of us had to be sleeping in the
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back while the rest of us were up front. You
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know, we made it work. We had no choice. Yeah.
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And you were driving it, right? Yeah, I drove
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too. I had my turn. They realized that I was
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a safe driver. I never drove the Dodge Motorhome.
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I drove the bus because the bus was really easy
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to drive because, first of all, it was a custom
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-made bus for the band. Cool. What you meant?
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It had like four bunks. It was an airporter.
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It was a smaller bus than like Trailways or Greyhound.
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It was used by airports mainly for transporting
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people. The engine was in the rear. Flexible
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was the name of the company that made this. And
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I remember Tom and Don flying out there. Once
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we had decided how we wanted the inside to be,
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they flew out to kind of make sure that things
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ran as we want them, you know. It was being custom
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built for us to our specifications. They drove
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it back. When the bus was just about ready, that's
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when they flew out there, you know. That's cool.
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To drive it back to Bakersfield. And the thing
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different about it mainly was it had a Ford.
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automatic transmission, which that made it possible
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for all of us to drive it. Because all we had
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to do is just put her on drive and take off.
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As opposed to having to gear down and shifting
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and all this like a regular bus would have been
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at that time. Yeah. Even I drove it quite often.
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And it was a fairly light bus that even if at
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one time we ran out of gas. Dole Holly was driving,
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and this is in L .A., which is just south of
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Bakersfield, 125 miles. We were doing a show
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maybe that night or the following night, I forget.
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And we were all down there, and he ran out of
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gas like about two blocks from a gas station.
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And so we all just got out. And two of us got
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out and we were able to push the bus. It was
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that light, easy to move because it was completely
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flat. So I remember getting out and we pushed
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it. We weren't huffing or puffing. We just put
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a little muscle behind it and it got rolling.
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But that's the only incident something like that
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happened. But I can't, I think one time, and
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I'm just remembering things here as we speak.
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Yeah. We were crossing Arizona, yeah, Arizona
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into New Mexico. I forget which state it's which,
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right next to Texas. It was late at night, and
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all of a sudden, Tom was driving, and all of
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a sudden we heard a big thump. And then we felt
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the bus braking come to a halt. And what happened
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was Tom hit a horse. Oh, no. What they called
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an Indian pony. And we were probably close to
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a reservation or something like that. And I guess
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this horse was just wild and somehow close to
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a highway and running across the highway. That
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was the end of the poor horse, and I think it
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might have done some minor damage to the side
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of the bus. We had a very strong bumper, I think,
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that kept us from having any real major damage
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to the front of the bus. Okay, so let's see.
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Don drove the motor home. Off the road in the
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snow, Doyle ran out of gas. Oh, there was another
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incident with Don. We were signed into a motel,
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and he was taking us around to the bank for us
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to unload. And as he turned, he made a turn too
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close to the edge of the motel, you know, like
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on the second floor. You have, you know, like,
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I don't know how many floors there was, maybe
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just two. But the upper tier that you walk on,
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on the second floor, right there corner, it's
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a sharp corner. And so he drove the bus, one
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part of the bus, into. Oh, yeah. And so that
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was another strike for him, you know. So that,
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and then Tom, okay, he hit that Indian pony.
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And so nothing happened to me. I never had. Fortunately,
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I never had any accidents. Wow. You know, these
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are just things that happen while you're out
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there. Yeah. And you never know what's going
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to happen, you know. But running out of gas is
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kind of inexcusable. So Doyle never heard the
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end of that song. That's about as much as I can
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tell you. You know, I mean, on the road, it's
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not like funny stuff was happening all the time
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or nothing like that. It was just life on the
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road, you know? Yeah. What about all your friendship
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with the Buckaroos? I'm sure you got a lot closer
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as you toured together so much. The more we toured
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together, the more we hated each other. Oh, no.
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No, no, no. I'm just joking about that. You know.
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You get on each other's nerves. Yeah. That I
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got on their nerves, I'm sure, as well as they
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got on my nerves for different things. You know,
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we were all very different from each other. Yeah.
11:56
So therefore, stuff like that is bound to happen.
11:59
I heard sometimes they like to play pranks. Well,
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yeah, it's part of being out there on the road.
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Yeah. And of course they did that on me, especially
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in the beginning. I was very young and didn't
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know what to believe. And so it happened for
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a while. So we can move on to other things. Yeah.
12:23
You know, we had Bakersfield, sometimes people
12:26
call it Nashville West, making all these records,
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all these hits. And doing that outside of Nashville
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was pretty much for the first time. And so I
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was wondering, did you ever hear Buck Owens talk
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about what he felt about Nashville? As far as
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not the place, you know, the industry -wise.
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Not really. Nothing really comes to mind. It's
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just, well, you know, the voices, the overproduction,
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a lot of songs that... made Nashville sound more
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pop -oriented. You know what I'm saying? Oh,
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yeah. You know, everybody had to have voices
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behind them. You know, Jim Reese, Ray Price,
13:19
George Jones, you name them. You know, some of
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the most straight -ahead country singers had
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voices. And so it made the music syrupy, so to
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speak. I don't know if... Buck ever used that
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expression, but I've heard it, and that's what
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it reminds me of. It's sweetened. It's softened.
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It took the edge out of the music, whereas Buck
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Owens' music always had that edge. You know,
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there was no BS, you know, this is what I got,
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this is what you get kind of attitude. And that's
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what made him stand out in my mind. And not belittering
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anything that ever came out of Nashville, but
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it was just a totally different sound. And it
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was very acceptable. But it wasn't what the Bakersfield
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sound was, what it offered. And I don't think
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the Nashville, except for, I might be cutting
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my own throat by saying this. But it doesn't
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matter now. I think Buck Owens and Merle Haggard
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are the only really two voices that came out
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of that whole thing that really will stand up
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to anyone else. And that's just my opinion. I
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had a question about a song, I Don't Care. That's
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the first song that was in the shuffle? That's
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right. And how did that happen? I don't know.
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I didn't write it. All I know is I played it
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at the session. It was probably one of the very
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first recording sessions that I did. I don't
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know if it was recorded at the same session as
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Crying Time. I think Crying Time was the first
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number one song that I played on. And I'm not
15:12
sure if that was recorded first before. I don't
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care. But I'll have to listen to I Don't Care.
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But I'm pretty sure. that on the intro of it,
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the way Don phrases it, the intro, is just like
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it was a shuffle, okay? And I don't know how
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it came about that I started playing eighth notes.
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I do not recall anybody saying, this song will
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be different than the other songs. Don't play
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a shuffle. I don't recall Buck saying anything
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or Don. or anybody else, the bass player. I think
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the way Buck operated, he or someone would come,
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I'm thinking he might sing us a little bit about
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the song, and then let us decide what we were
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going to play. And I'm thinking that's the way
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it happened. It was just one of those things
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that rhythmically, it felt like something different
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than what Don was doing. You know, once I heard
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the song, that's... Because I know I probably
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heard, we all heard the song before we actually
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attempted to play it, okay? That's the only logical
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thing that I can think of. And somehow I decided
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to play what I played, just like in Buckaroo.
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Nobody told me to play a Latin beat or come up
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with something, you know? We listened to Bob
16:43
Morris, the bass player on the session, that
16:46
was our regular bass player. on all the sessions.
16:50
He wrote it. He played it on guitar for us. I
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decided what it should feel like, what I was
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hearing, and that's what I played. Nobody told
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me to play a sort of quasi -Latin beat, which
17:06
is what it is, because it's not a true Latin
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rhythm, the way I played it. But it sounds Latin
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because I took the basic elements. of Latin rhythms
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and applied it to that song. And it worked. That's
17:23
all, in the end, that's all that matters. So
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the same thing I think happened with, and would
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happen with other songs. It all depends on what
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the song suggested to me when I first heard it.
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And Buck was relying on us. to come up with something
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that, if it was different and it felt and it
17:45
sounded good, that's what he would go with. And
17:48
he was looking for that, especially in me and
17:52
in Don. So that was kind of like the untalked
17:58
-about thinking in the group. But, like I told
18:02
you in the beginning, I asked him the very first
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night, Is there anything I need to know? Because
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we hadn't rehearsed, meaning we hadn't rehearsed
18:11
before that first job. And of course I was nervous
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because I had no clue. You know, I'd never played
18:17
with that band before. He said, two things that
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I want you to remember, he said to me. We play
18:24
on top of the beat, which I did not understand
18:27
at first what he meant. And then the second thing
18:31
he says, if I don't like what you're doing, I
18:33
will always tell you. which never happened. He
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never said anything to me. Hey, Willie, you know,
18:40
can he change this or don't do that? Never. I
18:43
think he learned to trust the way I played that
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I would do what was the right thing, that I would
18:51
find what I felt was the right thing. And fortunately,
18:55
it turned out to be the right thing for him.
18:58
Yeah. But I never thought about it. You know,
19:00
well, am I doing the right thing or this or do
19:03
I need to change? It never entered my mind. I
19:05
just played. You know, that's the kind of freedom
19:07
we all had. I think of this video I saw on YouTube
19:13
of you playing Sam's Place on the Mike Douglas
19:16
show. And you're really going for all the fills.
19:21
Like, it sounds a lot more energetic than...
19:26
like the original recording because of drum playing.
19:29
Yeah, and the record, they wanted everything
19:33
to be clean. And I never used cymbals other than
19:38
the hi -hat. I never used a crash. Maybe on an
19:42
instrumental I might have used a crash and maybe
19:44
a rhyme cymbal, but I never used on any of the
19:49
early buck stuff. And the bass drum was never
19:52
mic'd. It wasn't until... We did Tiger by the
19:58
Tail. They actually recorded the bass drum. Wow.
20:03
Because you can hear it. So by the time of Sam's
20:09
place, things started changing. And I would play
20:14
as cleanly as possible on the record, not to
20:20
detract from the vocal. And then live, I was
20:26
free to do whatever I wanted with it. That's
20:30
how it started. And that's why on the Mike Douglas
20:33
show, I played the way I did because that's how
20:37
I played when we were playing for an audience.
20:41
Nice. You know, you're known for your fast shuffle
20:45
hi -hat patterns. And your hi -hat patterns are
20:49
faster and more complex than the previous Bucko
20:52
and Strummers. And I was wondering, my friend
20:55
wanted me to ask, my friend Kyle, he wanted to
20:57
know what type of hi -hat cymbals you were using
21:00
in those earlier days. Like from the Tiger, from
21:03
the Tail era. Uh -huh. Nothing. First of all,
21:07
there were no hi -hat. I didn't play hi -hat
21:10
cymbals. on Tiger by the Tail or that whole album,
21:14
where it was the top of a stool from the studio.
21:20
On that session, I think after the first song,
21:24
first take, something wasn't clicking for the
21:29
sound they wanted to hear from the drums. And
21:33
so I remember distinctly possibly the A &R man
21:37
who was in charge of the recording. said something
21:41
about, what have you got that can give us a cleaner
21:45
sound? And so they just kind of left it with
21:49
me. And I went around tapping and asking them,
21:52
how did this sound? How does that sound? And
21:55
I finally went over to a stool that, one of those
22:00
tall stools that Frank Sinatra and Buck used
22:03
to sit on while they're singing, you know. And
22:06
I'm pretty sure it was a metal top. as opposed
22:11
to our wooden top. It had too much ring on it,
22:13
so I kind of dampened it with a towel or something.
22:16
I forget what all I did. And I said, well, how
22:19
about this? And they said, that's it. That's
22:22
the sound we want to hear. Wow. And so I did
22:28
Tiger by the Tail with that, and that was the
22:32
sound they liked. And they said, leave it like
22:34
that for the whole album. And so I'm pretty sure
22:37
I recorded the whole album. with all the songs
22:42
that are, we might have done that album all in
22:45
one day. And so you'll find out by the dates
22:49
whether it is true or not. But I'm thinking all
22:54
the recording that we did that particular day
22:56
was all using that stool. Wow. And it's the cleanest
23:01
hi -hat sound you'll ever hear from any of the
23:05
other Buck Owens records. And it's not even a
23:08
hi -hat. Wow. No. And my hi -hat cymbals were
23:13
nothing special. They were just like regular.
23:16
I only had one set of hi -hats. When I bought
23:19
them, they were to match my Zildjian cymbals.
23:23
They were considered jazz cymbals. Nothing special
23:27
about them. But since then, I gradually started
23:32
trying to get more definition out of the hi -hat
23:36
sound. And I finally came up to using a heavier
23:42
cymbal on the bottom, like a marching band weight.
23:46
And that's what I use to this day, a real heavy
23:50
bottom. And, well, actually, one of my cymbals
23:53
were, there was a time about 20 years or so ago
23:57
where Zildjian was making these, started making
24:01
these really heavy cymbals for, you know, bands
24:05
like Kiss. all the real heavy rock bands. So
24:09
I found a pair of those. I forget what the designation
24:15
is, but I'll text you what it is. But they're
24:21
like for playing in a heavy metal band. They're
24:26
really heavy cymbals. I remembered years ago
24:32
that one of the local drummers that had studied
24:36
with my teacher at that time in Corpus, played
24:39
the strange sounding set of hi -hats. And I remember
24:45
asking him, they were 15s and they were heavy
24:49
band cymbals. He said, with these cymbals, you're
24:54
not going to miss the sound of the hi -hat because
24:57
it's very clear. It was a very dry and very distinct.
25:03
clear sound that I, that I recall. And I always
25:06
remember that. And so I think that's how I decided
25:10
to experiment with a heavier bottom rather than
25:13
the double heavy, you know, cause I still wanted
25:17
to have a regular sounding top symbol. Yeah.
25:22
You know, so that's the combination that's worked
25:25
for me all these years, you know, find the heaviest
25:28
low, especially low pitch. is important for a
25:32
bottom cymbal. And they all, you know, Sabian
25:35
and Zildjian, everybody makes them. You know,
25:38
they make heavy cymbals. So find you something
25:42
that's a contrast from the top cymbal and kind
25:46
of experiment with cymbals over the heavy one
25:50
until you get the sound that you want. You know,
25:52
that's all I can tell you. Yeah. So now that
25:55
we're talking about... Drums. You had three drum
25:58
sets that I know of when you're playing with
26:00
the Buckaroos. The Slingerland set, the Gresham,
26:03
the Rogers, right? What was your favorite? Well,
26:06
each of them was. That's why I had them at the
26:10
time. So my first drum set was the Slingerland.
26:14
You got that? Is that one you got in Corpus Christi?
26:17
Yeah, yeah. And I still owed money on it. And
26:22
I think that... That first year with Buck, I
26:25
finished paying for it. And I used to send money
26:32
home to finish paying for those drums. And then
26:37
after I finished paying for them, I traded them
26:42
in on a set of Gretsch. And the Gretsch did not
26:47
turn out to be what I... had hoped i had problems
26:52
tuning with them tuning them and that was the
26:56
biggest downfall it was just the way gretch drums
26:59
were made at that time the uh like the late 50s
27:02
early 60s the shells were still a little bit
27:06
oversized and you could you could fit calfskin
27:11
heads on them but plastics plastic heads especially
27:15
like weather king heads which is the main drumhead
27:20
at that time that was popular, they wouldn't
27:23
always fit. And so I had to kind of just really
27:27
squeeze them on there. And so they didn't tune
27:30
up easily because there was too much pressure
27:33
from the shell. And 67, when I got the Rogers,
27:38
it was like day and night compared to the Gretsch.
27:40
They were easier to tune because the shells were
27:43
undersized. It allowed the heads to vibrate freely
27:48
because... there was no pressure from the shell
27:50
onto the hoop of the drum head. Do you follow
27:54
me? Yeah. Okay, so I never did endorse Rodgers,
27:59
but I got a set of Rodgers because CBS had taken
28:04
over Fender and Rodgers drums at that time, and
28:08
so that's how I ended up with a set of Rodgers
28:11
because the band played Fender, and so it made
28:15
sense for me to play Rodgers. Because it was
28:18
part of the same conglomerate. And I was happier,
28:23
especially with the snare drum, the Dinosonic.
28:25
It's basically my favorite snare drum, even to
28:28
this day. Nice. And now that we're talking about
28:32
the sounds of all the drums, let's talk about
28:34
the Bakersfield sound. I love to ask people,
28:38
what is the Bakersfield sound to you? The Telecasters.
28:43
That's the main, that's number one. the bright
28:46
Telecaster sound, the bright bass sound, the
28:50
bright steel guitar, and the voice of Buck Owens.
28:54
Without the voice of Buck Owens, it never happened.
28:58
He's the one that fabricated that sound, according
29:01
to his idea of what he wanted to hear. And I'm
29:07
sure there's interviews with him where he talks
29:10
about it, so you might want to look into that.
29:12
To me, in my mind... That's how you identify
29:16
the Bakersfield sound is hearing Buck's voice
29:19
and the twangy guitars and the crystal clear
29:23
bass. You know, nobody else was using that type
29:27
of bass sound at that point. They were all really
29:31
boomy, you know. So that's what it is. And it's
29:34
not, if it has to be a drum sound, it's the hi
29:39
-hat and the cross stick. Not any particular
29:43
brand of anything. It's just the way. If you
29:47
listen to the drummers before me, listen to the
29:51
records a year or two years before me, and you'll
29:55
hear Buck's drummers at that particular time
29:59
play that way. And we each had our own sound,
30:04
so to speak. Yeah. So that's about as much as
30:08
I can tell you. There's no magic. secret formula
30:13
oh yeah drum sound drum sound you know a lot
30:18
and a lot had to do with the individual you know
30:22
yeah i had a question do you remember when you
30:26
were in the band buck owens made a pledge to
30:29
only sing country songs and it just seems funny
30:34
what do you think about it well people used to
30:39
make fun of it because What they used to say
30:42
is, we shall record no song that isn't country
30:46
except Memphis. You know, because, you know,
30:51
it wasn't a shuffle and it was more rock oriented
30:55
than, you know, what can I tell you? Yeah. They
30:59
started to want to do instrumental albums of
31:02
just the Buckaroos. How did that start? Well,
31:07
what happened was. at Buck's recording sessions,
31:15
a lot of times he would record extra songs, maybe
31:19
featuring Don on fiddle or maybe a steel guitar
31:24
instrumental, you know, something like that.
31:27
So there was an accumulation of instrumental,
31:31
non -vocals by Buck, in other words. Yeah. Or
31:36
maybe a vocal by Don or Doyle or... somebody
31:40
that was in the band previously, and they used
31:43
cuts like that as fillers for upcoming albums.
31:48
If they didn't have enough songs, well, they'd
31:50
take something from the past that hadn't been
31:53
on an album and put it on a more current album,
31:56
you know, stuff like that. As time passed, say
31:59
a couple of years after I was in the band, that
32:03
sort of ended. I don't know how it happened,
32:07
but I just remember that Bob Morris, the bass
32:10
player, that was on all our recording sessions,
32:15
he was like the fifth buckaroo, but only just
32:19
on the records, you know? Yeah. Because he is
32:22
the one that played bass, and he never played
32:25
in the band on the road. Okay, and so like Dole
32:30
Holly would maybe play acoustic rhythm, you know,
32:33
rhythm guitar. And so that's just the way it
32:36
was. I don't know why, but when I got there,
32:39
that's how things were. So he came in with this
32:43
tune that he wanted Buck to listen to. The guys
32:46
kind of learned it real quick. I don't know if
32:49
anybody told me to come up with a beat, a different
32:52
beat for it. I don't recall anything like that.
32:55
But anyway, once we were running it down, I just
32:59
came up with the idea of doing this kind of a
33:02
quasi. Latin beat. Quasi means almost, but not
33:07
quite. And it wasn't a traditional rhythm that
33:11
I was playing. I was playing a combination of
33:14
rhythms, maybe a bell, a cowbell pattern that
33:18
you hear in Latin music combined, or maybe half
33:22
of the clave pattern, and also partly what maybe
33:27
a conga drummer would do. with a slap and then
33:31
open tones. The slap being imitated by the cross
33:34
stick and the open tones would be on the tom
33:37
-tom or the snare drum with no snares on. You
33:40
know, it was a combination of those sounds. And
33:42
I just went with what I heard. And it was acceptable
33:46
to him. And the next step was coming up with
33:50
a name for the tour that Bob had written. So
33:53
we were all told to try and come up with a name.
33:57
My idea was, because it had a Latin kind of twist
34:03
to it, the rhythm, it fit the melody so well,
34:07
I came up with El Buckaroo. You know, since we
34:14
were the Buckaroos playing this tune, and that
34:18
name was kind of fitting for that tune. And so
34:22
that was my idea. El Buckaroo. Well, they didn't
34:28
like the idea of the L in it. I don't know why.
34:33
Maybe it was because it was country music. But
34:36
anyway, so they, I don't remember what anyone
34:41
else had said, but they decided to drop El Buckaroo
34:46
and just go with Buckaroo. I'm not laying claim
34:51
to the title, but it was partially. From the
34:56
title that I came up with, Buckaroo was in that
35:00
title. So I don't know if anyone else has ever
35:05
done an interview and said, well, I came up with
35:08
a name or Bob. I don't think Bob didn't have
35:12
a name for it. Yeah, I think they said the title
35:14
was Paris before they changed it. Okay. I don't
35:18
know. I don't recall that. So that must have
35:20
been what Bob Morris called it then. Paris. Yeah,
35:24
but Paris didn't fit, they said, so then, yeah.
35:28
So what else did they say about it? That's about
35:30
it. In one of the biographies, it said that Bob
35:35
brought in a song called Paris, and then they
35:38
renamed it, but they didn't say specific, but
35:40
now we know who. I really do like that album
35:45
cover where you're all dressed as Westerns. Well,
35:49
let me tell you about that. So this is what happened.
35:52
on those little 45 covers are some of the pictures
35:56
that were taken for that first Buckaroo album.
35:59
That was kind of like the beginning of having,
36:02
you know, all those instrumentals. There had
36:05
been some instrumentals that had been previously
36:07
recorded that I think appear on that first Buckaroo
36:11
album. Well, that was the very beginning of the
36:15
Buckaroo records, because I think I did the first
36:18
two, and then... After I left, well, they kept
36:22
on making them. I don't know how many they did,
36:25
you know. But I know at least there was one or
36:28
maybe two more, you know. At some point, the
36:33
Buck Owens organization sent me the whole collection
36:37
of Buck's recorded output. That's from before
36:42
I was in the band to the years that I was in
36:45
the band and then after. Even though I didn't
36:48
ask for any of it, you know, they just sent it
36:51
to me. So I'm just going by memory here in terms
36:55
of what I'm remembering. And so that was the
37:01
beginning, you know. Since Buckaroo had become
37:04
such a major hit, I guess that was the stimulus
37:09
to follow in that direction, you know. Yeah,
37:12
that makes sense. Featuring the... the musicians
37:17
in the band. And so the photos and all that,
37:20
I mean, we went, I can tell you about that. One
37:23
of the recording sessions happened, and I remember
37:27
that I was still wearing the shirt that I wore
37:31
for the photo shoot, which I think happened after
37:34
the recording session. Because I remember there's,
37:37
well, there's several photographs of, I've got
37:40
probably a couple of them from the photo shoot.
37:42
And there's one. of me and Don. Well, actually,
37:48
he took the picture. We rode from Bakersfield
37:51
to Los Angeles to Hollywood in his Austin Healey
37:56
3000, which is a roadster sports car, a two -seater.
38:01
We all had our own little sports car rides that
38:05
we kind of treasured. At least Don and I did
38:09
at that time. Buck finally bought himself a Corvette.
38:13
And now did the rest of us. But anyway, fun cars
38:17
to have. But so anyway, we stopped somewhere
38:22
in uniform, not uniform, but the outfits that
38:25
we had taken our pictures in and me with the
38:28
Mexican outfit. And we stopped at a little convenience
38:32
store because I was always hungry. I was hyperglycemic
38:36
and didn't even know it. And so I used to get
38:39
hungry quite a lot. And so we stopped. and I
38:42
bought a bag of potato chips, and it happened
38:44
to be Lay's. So I'm standing right next to his
38:49
car, to his sports car, leaning on a lamppost
38:53
or something, eating potato chips, and he took
38:56
a picture of me doing that. And the reason why
38:59
we did that with the Lay's potato chips is because
39:04
there had been a commercial on TV at that time
39:07
that was very popular, and it had to— do something
39:11
with Lay's potato chips and the Old West days,
39:17
you know, with the Mexican bandits and the cowboys.
39:20
And so that was the theme. And so what the commercial
39:25
was, there's these bandits hiding behind a rock
39:29
out in the desert, and they're Mexican, okay?
39:33
And there's this cowboy riding along the trail.
39:38
And they jump him, you know, with their guns
39:40
and stuff. And he's on the horse eating potato
39:45
chips. And they were lays. That's funny. And
39:50
so the Mexican, one of them says, he said, let
39:56
me see, how did it go? Okay, so they held him
39:59
up. And he said to the bandits, you might not
40:06
believe this. But my name is Granny Goose. And
40:12
one of the Mexicans says, well, Goose, what you
40:16
got in the bag? So he proceeds to tell him potato
40:20
chips. And I think he gave him the bag of potato
40:24
chips or a bag. I don't remember any more of
40:27
that. But that was part of the reason why I did
40:30
that photo shoot like that, you know, just for
40:33
us. And I have a copy of that. I'll send you
40:35
that. And I'll send you one or two of the photos
40:39
that I have of the actual photo shoot when we
40:45
were just done out in the Beverly Hills. Yeah.
40:53
Well, actually, Hollywood Hills. Oh, Hollywood
40:55
Hills, yeah. Yeah, that's what it was. Awesome.
40:59
So that's one story. And I remember going into...
41:05
Earlier in the day, before the recording session
41:09
or anything, we had to be there early and meet
41:12
and go to a movie storage place where they had
41:19
all these different costumes for movies, for
41:23
actors to wear. And we had to find outfits for
41:28
each other. And what led to that... was Don's
41:33
the one that had the idea for that album cover.
41:38
And his idea was to dress up like outlaws. So
41:43
I decided that since I'm of Mexican heritage,
41:48
that I would dress up like a Mexican bandit.
41:52
And so that's why my outfit is totally different
41:55
from theirs. And I had the big sombrero, you
42:00
know. And so that's how that came to be. And
42:03
so anyway, I guess Don passed it on to Capitol
42:08
Records. And so they made arrangements for us
42:11
to get outfits from the movie places, you know,
42:16
the ones that furnished the actors. I was just
42:19
like about 20 years old, 19 or 20. And I couldn't
42:23
grow a mustache then, so they had phony mustaches.
42:28
The mustache that I got to paste onto my upper
42:33
lip was so long that I looked like Fu Manchu.
42:37
So what I had to do is I had to cut half of it
42:40
so that I would look more like a Mexican bandit.
42:43
What you see on the cover is what we all chose
42:48
what we wanted to be. That's cool. Okay, I got
42:53
another question about something else. So Johnny
42:55
Cash did a famous... concert at San Quentin and
42:59
made a live album. But three years before that,
43:02
you played in January 1st, 1966. You played at
43:07
San Quentin Prison. Do you remember that? Yeah.
43:10
What was that like? Yes, I do. Well, I can tell
43:13
you I'd never been in a prison before. And so
43:16
it was strange. The inmates were all going crazy
43:20
and not crazy because of us, because we had to
43:24
follow Eartha Kitt. Oh, wow. Do you know who
43:27
Eartha Kitt was? Well, yeah, yeah, I do. I doubt
43:30
that she's still alive. I could be wrong. But
43:33
she was like, I guess, a heavy sex symbol at
43:39
that time. And the way she sang, but I think
43:45
I've only seen her once in a movie. And that's
43:47
how I found out about her, being an actress and
43:52
a singer. Yeah, I know her from that Santa Baby
43:55
song. They play that every Christmas. I don't
43:58
know about that. But this is a movie that I saw
44:02
years after we had been there. So that's what
44:05
the whole row was about, was her walking on or
44:10
off stage because, you know, she did what is
44:14
considered a sexy walk, you know, moving her
44:17
hips. And those guys were locked up in prison
44:20
for a while. Yeah, yeah. And she was overly endowed
44:24
with body parts. And I'm sure that just drove
44:31
the guys crazy. And you had to follow Eartha
44:35
Kitt in a prison. I never knew she played it.
44:38
At San Quentin. Wow. Well, I'm pretty sure she
44:42
was there because that's what I'm remembering.
44:44
Yeah. No, I believe you. I'm just saying, like,
44:46
what a different time, you know? Having concerts.
44:49
They don't have those anymore. Well, maybe. I
44:51
don't think they do. And when we played, they
44:56
all went crazy, too, because I think Buck was
44:58
a big smash to begin with, you know? But Eartha
45:01
Kitt was just like something else. Were you separate
45:06
from the prisoners? Yeah, we were, of course.
45:10
Of course, we were like on a stage. That's what
45:13
I'm remembering. Wow. So there was no way they
45:16
could get to us if they wanted to. Yeah. That's
45:19
all I can tell you. Yeah, yeah, that's cool.
45:22
What about when you were recording the Buck Owens
45:24
Ranch show? Was that a fun experience? I don't
45:28
think so. No? Because of the hot lights. Oh,
45:32
yeah. And the long waiting periods between takes.
45:37
At that time, to me, being in any kind of a studio
45:41
with television, they always had these really
45:47
bright lights, which I really had a problem with.
45:50
It was hard for me to smile when those lights
45:54
were on. And so I don't think it was fun. I never
45:58
saw it as fun, and I just couldn't wait for it
46:02
to end. Yeah, that makes sense. Usually we did
46:06
more than one show in one day, you know. I think
46:10
we used to go to, it was in Oklahoma City where
46:13
they were done. And the Mathis Brothers Furniture
46:18
Company were the sponsors for it. That's how
46:23
it started, the Mathis Brothers production. Yeah.
46:26
And then I think it might have changed title
46:30
because it became part of. I don't know how Buck
46:35
ended up with ownership of all of that. From
46:38
the date of one of the very first shows that
46:42
I have, they were done in 1966. And the very
46:47
first week that we were in Oklahoma City, when
46:52
we were done at the end of that week, we had
46:54
one more week before we did Carnegie Hall. If
46:57
you ever wanted to see what we sounded and looked
47:00
like, all you have to do is see that. that first
47:03
TV show. That was like a week before we actually
47:06
did Carnegie Hall. Wow. We should talk about
47:09
Carnegie Hall too. Well, shoot. All right. I
47:14
just want to point out, it must have been what,
47:16
you started playing drums and it was four years
47:19
and then you played Carnegie Hall. That's how
47:22
quick, right? Yeah. So you're... You're like
47:26
a prodigy, you know, at drums. Yes, I never thought
47:30
myself as that, but maybe I was, you know, because
47:34
I was very young and very accomplished within
47:37
that short time. Yeah. So you'd played so many
47:41
concerts before. Did it feel a lot different
47:43
playing Carnegie Hall to you? Of course. First
47:47
of all, I knew that one of my heroes had played
47:51
Carnegie Hall back in the late 30s. This is Gene
47:55
Krupa, the drummer. He's pretty well the first
47:58
drummer to really become really popular and popularize
48:04
the drum solo, okay, with the big bands that
48:07
were happening at that time. And he was with
48:10
the Benny Goodman Orchestra in the late 30s.
48:13
And I think 1938 or something like that, their
48:17
popularity really broke through when they appeared
48:21
at Carnegie Hall. And they had people dancing
48:25
in the aisles and everything just kind of just
48:28
broke loose, you know. Yeah. And it was also
48:32
the first time that they'd featured a drum solo,
48:34
which is Gene Krupa. And that had a lot to do
48:39
with it, too. You know, the crowd just went wild.
48:42
And so knowing this from history, and I hadn't
48:47
heard the original recordings yet. But I knew
48:50
about Carnegie Hall as being the place where
48:54
all this had happened. And when I was actually
48:57
there, I just remember while I was setting up
49:00
my drums, thinking that I was probably setting
49:05
up my drums very close to where Gene Krupa had
49:08
set up his. And so that just kind of just put
49:12
me into another headspace. You might say I entered
49:16
another realm in history. You know, and just,
49:20
I can't, I was so related, I can't, just the
49:24
fact that I was there. But once it was time for
49:27
us to play, I just forgot about it and just did
49:30
my thing with the band like we always did, you
49:33
know. Yeah. It's too bad that it wasn't videotaped.
49:37
It should have been videotaped. Yeah, that would
49:39
have been cool. I think maybe there wasn't enough
49:43
time to really put it all together and someone
49:46
or the management, you know, Jack McFadden, to
49:49
say, well, you know, we should, we're at Carnegie
49:52
Hall. How many chances are we going to get to
49:54
play here? We should have this videotaped. Somebody
49:58
or even Capitol Records, they should have thought
50:01
ahead what it would have been like to have that
50:03
documented, not only on a recording, but live,
50:08
you know? Yeah. Buck and I talked about that
50:11
later, years later, and he didn't understand
50:15
why no one or even him come up with the idea
50:19
of having it videotaped. That's about as much
50:24
as I can tell you. Yeah, it's known as one of
50:28
the greatest live albums ever recorded. People
50:32
really enjoy it, and it's just a great album,
50:35
and it's cool to hear. all the banter of the,
50:38
because you can listen to the songs, you know,
50:41
on the records, but hearing the live album and
50:44
hearing all the live and the banter and the jokes
50:47
of what your stage show was like is really cool.
50:51
I heard that the gunshot scared everyone there.
50:55
Yeah, it was a muzzleloader, an antique gun that
51:01
Don had that was really loud, you know. And it
51:05
kind of became part of the act. Yeah, part of
51:08
the Beatles routine, right? Yeah. And what about
51:12
in New York? Did you get to go to any jazz places
51:15
while you were there? Of course I did. I was
51:18
probably, well, anywhere I went, I just went
51:21
by myself because none of the guys had any interest
51:25
in going to a jazz club. Don, I think of all
51:29
the guys, was the only one that had a... a slight
51:34
interest in jazz, but mainly guitar jazz, you
51:38
know. But the people that I listened to, he wouldn't
51:43
have enjoyed because he was used to a different
51:46
style of that music, you know. So I just, it
51:51
didn't matter. It didn't stop me. I just was
51:53
warned to watch my back for fear that I might
51:57
get mugged. So when I took off on my own. I never
52:02
forgot that. I got on the subway and got down
52:08
to Greenwich Village, where the Village Vanguard
52:10
was, and proceeded to have a good time. That's
52:15
awesome. Who do you remember seeing play? Well,
52:18
I went mainly to see Miles Davis' band. Ooh,
52:22
wow. He had a drummer that was a year older than
52:25
me. He was 18, I was 17. His name was Anthony
52:29
Williams, Tony Williams. He was new on the scene
52:33
and making a big splash in jazz because he brought
52:39
a new sound, a new concept of playing. And he
52:44
just kind of became, within a year or two, a
52:50
very major drum artist. Somebody that took the
52:55
music, jazz drumming, to a new level. But I was
53:00
very fortunate. that I was there at that particular
53:03
time because I walked into the club and it was
53:07
empty. So I went and sat myself over right next
53:13
to the bandstand, which is all the same level
53:15
as the audience, and at almost the last table
53:20
at the end of the wall there, very close to where
53:24
Tony Williams was set up. I was just a few feet
53:27
away from him, so I could see. and hear everything
53:30
he was doing very clear, very distinctly, and
53:33
see the rest of the band. What happened that
53:36
night was that Miles Davis didn't show up. I
53:40
have no idea why. And after a while, it didn't
53:44
matter because the band was great even without
53:47
Miles. And fortunate for me, I was the only,
53:51
unfortunate for them, I was the only customer
53:54
that had the first set. And so during the break,
53:59
That first break, I went over to Tony and introduced
54:03
myself, and he was very friendly, and we got
54:07
to talking. Once he found out I was a drummer,
54:09
he invited me to follow him over to a back room
54:13
where we could just hang out and just not be
54:17
in the actual club itself. So we spent the whole
54:22
break talking about jazz and drumming. my ideas
54:27
about certain things and certain people. And
54:30
we liked some of the same players and stuff.
54:33
So we had a good time talking. So it was time
54:37
for the break to be over and they were going
54:39
to do another set. So they did another set. I
54:42
stayed there and listened again to another set.
54:45
And then a few people came in. And so... I didn't
54:49
get to hang out with him the second set because
54:52
he came over and told me that there were some
54:54
people there he needed to go and say hello to
54:57
and talk to. So I understood. So no problem.
55:01
So anyway, so I stayed for another set. When
55:05
he came back, they did another set. And then
55:09
at the end, I was getting ready to leave and
55:12
I was thanking him for being such a friendly
55:16
person. easy to talk to and this and that. And
55:19
so he said, well, what are you doing now? I says,
55:21
well, I guess just go back to my motel room.
55:24
And he said, well, listen, Herbie, Herbie Hancock,
55:28
the pianist, and I are going to go over to the
55:32
five spot where Charles Mingus and his band are
55:36
playing. They'll probably be playing until about
55:38
four or four o 'clock or five in the morning.
55:40
And so he said, you're welcome to come with us.
55:43
So I said, sure. So anyway. On the way there,
55:47
I sat in the cab that Tony flagged, and I ended
55:53
up sitting in between Tony and Herbie Hancock.
55:57
And Tony introduced me and telling him who I
56:01
was and why I was in New York City. I don't know
56:05
that they'd ever heard of Buck Owens, but Herbie
56:08
did say that in his earlier days, he was from
56:12
that part of the, from... Detroit or Chicago,
56:17
somewhere in that area, he said that he had played
56:21
a lot of country music growing up, which surprised
56:26
me. And he said he enjoyed it, and he said that
56:30
what he enjoyed about it was the singers really
56:33
sang with a lot of feeling, you know. And that
56:37
was all he said to me the whole time. And so,
56:43
you know. We got to the five spot, and I started
56:51
seeing faces. I think the band was on a break,
56:54
and I started seeing faces that I recognized
56:57
from some of my album covers. At that time, Herbie
57:01
and Tony were very popular because they were
57:05
the new generation of jazz musicians, very well
57:10
respected by the older musicians. And some of
57:15
these guys were standing outside, you know. We
57:17
walk in, and Tony said, let's sit here at the
57:20
bar. And there was a trio playing. And I had
57:25
never heard of these musicians before. But they
57:28
sounded really great. And we're sitting at the
57:30
bar. Of course, I wasn't drinking. And neither
57:33
was Tony. And plus, we were too young to be served.
57:36
So he turns over to me, and he says, would you
57:39
like to sit in with this group? And I said, what,
57:42
me? I mean, right away, I knew it would be a
57:47
disaster. So I bowed out of that, you know. And
57:53
he said, well, I'd like to play with him. So
57:55
come on with me. Let's go over to the back and
57:57
I'll talk to the drummer about sitting in. So
58:01
I followed him all the way behind the bandstand.
58:05
And in between the songs, he said something to
58:08
the drummer who right away. got off and tony
58:14
got on they started playing and it was just great
58:17
hearing him play again with different people
58:20
it was a great night you know once mingus's group
58:24
came on there and i started seeing faces in the
58:27
band that i knew of i was like in hog heaven
58:31
you might say you know getting to hear some of
58:33
these great musicians that i had heard only on
58:36
record that's awesome and uh On the way at the
58:41
end of the, well, early in the morning at the
58:43
end of the music there and going back to the
58:49
motel where I was, I rode with Herbie and Tony
58:53
again and another well -known drummer, Billy
58:56
Higgins. They dropped me off at the Lowe's Midtown
59:00
Motor Inn. That's where we were staying at. And
59:03
every time we went to New York, that's where
59:04
we stayed at. So anyway, I had gotten Tony's.
59:09
address and phone number and this and that and
59:13
he told me to call him next time I was in town
59:15
and we try to get together and that was it they
59:19
were very nice to me you know that was like a
59:22
dream night you know I never expected anything
59:25
like that to ever happen to me on my first night
59:28
in New York City yeah and if If people listen
59:32
to this, if you don't know jazz, basically a
59:36
lot of the people that Willie was talking about
59:39
are like jazz royalty, basically. Yes. And Herbie
59:44
Hancock is still alive now, and he's still producing
59:48
great music, recording. Tony Williams, unfortunately,
59:51
died a few years ago of a heart attack, I think.
59:56
Maybe it's been like 20 years since he's been
59:59
gone. Miles Davis is no longer alive. And I didn't
1:00:06
see Miles that trip, but I saw him years later
1:00:08
in California. And Ron Carter, the bass player,
1:00:14
is still alive and well and playing and still
1:00:17
playing. And the saxophone player, George Coleman,
1:00:21
I think he might still be alive, but he's quite
1:00:25
an elderly person now. I think he still records.
1:00:28
If he's still alive, he's still recording. Great
1:00:31
saxophone. So that was the group lineup in 1964.
1:00:38
Did you go to jazz clubs in all the cities that
1:00:41
you tried to go to them in multiple cities? Well,
1:00:47
the only jazz clubs that I remember ever going
1:00:52
to were New York City because I knew of them.
1:00:56
In Chicago, never did or have time to, or Detroit.
1:01:04
And the only other city was Los Angeles. In Hollywood,
1:01:09
there was a jazz club called Shelly's Manhole.
1:01:14
And Shelly Mann, who was the owner, was a drummer,
1:01:19
a well -known drummer. that was very popular
1:01:23
in the 50s. He was from New York City originally
1:01:27
and had come to fame in the late 40s with the
1:01:31
Stan Kenton Orchestra. And Shelly, as well as
1:01:36
a lot of musicians from the East Coast, New York
1:01:40
City being, that had been with the Stan Kenton
1:01:43
Orchestra, they all migrated to L .A. And the
1:01:48
majority of them ended up... in the studios,
1:01:53
as did Shelly Mann, not only making jazz records,
1:01:57
but also records with a lot of other people,
1:02:00
and also movies. They appeared in soundtracks
1:02:05
of a lot of movies during the 50s. So Shelly
1:02:12
Mann's club, The Manhole was the name of it,
1:02:15
is a club that I used to frequent because it
1:02:20
was... I'm just guessing here, maybe a mile away
1:02:24
from where Capitol Records was. It was in the
1:02:27
same general area in Hollywood. And I got to
1:02:32
see several of other favorite jazz musicians
1:02:35
there. That's awesome. So after the Carnegie
1:02:41
Hall concert, you did do another live album in
1:02:44
Japan, which sounds a lot different than the
1:02:48
Carnegie Hall. They both sound great, though.
1:02:51
And how was it going to Japan and bringing country
1:02:54
music to Japan? Well, it was a major event for
1:02:59
me because it was unknown. And I'd heard some
1:03:09
music before going to Japan, some instruments.
1:03:15
They were either Japanese. or chinese of origin
1:03:22
and so i always had a curiosity for music from
1:03:29
other parts of the world other than in this country
1:03:33
and like africa especially india japan china
1:03:41
and so therefore it was it was exciting going
1:03:47
there And being amongst the people, even though
1:03:54
I couldn't understand what they were saying,
1:03:56
I don't know, it was just very intriguing to
1:04:01
me. And it didn't matter to me that I didn't
1:04:05
understand. Just being there in a totally different
1:04:08
culture than what I was used to, it just opened
1:04:13
up my mind more. You know, the same thing happened.
1:04:17
When we went to Europe, to Paris or Germany,
1:04:21
you know, I had so much respect for what history
1:04:24
was in those countries and even in Japan. So
1:04:29
it was just a great experience, I can say. That's
1:04:33
cool. And you talked about Gene Krupa's drum
1:04:37
solo. You played a drum solo on that album, right?
1:04:40
Yes, I did. And I was going to mention that that
1:04:43
same stage. And Concert Hall, Cousin Incan Hall,
1:04:49
was the same hall that several great jazz musicians
1:04:54
had appeared with their bands there. And notably,
1:04:57
most notably, John Coltrane and his group recorded
1:05:01
an album or double albums there. Cool. And so
1:05:05
there again, I felt like I was in a very sacred
1:05:10
type place because of the great... musicians
1:05:15
that have played there before me. There's another
1:05:18
song that I like on there called Tokyo Polka,
1:05:21
and it's just you and Buck, right? It basically
1:05:24
featured us in the sense of I had little solo
1:05:28
sections that I played along with him, but that
1:05:32
was kind of like an impromptu decision on the
1:05:36
airplane flying to Tokyo. Buck called me over
1:05:40
and he said that he had these ideas. Once he
1:05:43
wanted to do... an instrumental tune, and Buck
1:05:46
was kind of known for, he liked to play polkas,
1:05:49
because he knew the audience enjoyed them, and
1:05:52
so he wanted to do an exchange where I would
1:05:56
have little sections where I could kind of do
1:05:59
drum solo -like things, you know. Yeah, like
1:06:02
a call and response kind of. Yeah, well, actually
1:06:06
trading fours, which is more of a jazz thing.
1:06:11
You know, I don't recall very much about it.
1:06:14
He asked me, well, he didn't ask me. He surprised
1:06:18
me at the venue by saying, while we were on stage,
1:06:26
he said, now Willie's going to do a drum solo.
1:06:29
Well, I had no idea that I was going to do a
1:06:31
drum solo until just then. Wow. And I had never
1:06:36
played a drum solo before with the band. any
1:06:41
other band that I remember. So I don't know how
1:06:46
I came up with what I did, but I just remember
1:06:52
in my mind, I didn't want it to be too long because
1:06:56
I didn't want to hog the show. And so I can't
1:07:02
believe I was so considerate because I could
1:07:04
have played as long as I wanted to. And I'm sure
1:07:07
that if it was too long, they would have cut
1:07:10
it, you know. What's the word? Slice it? So anyway,
1:07:16
it worked out. It was fine. You know, like I
1:07:18
said, it was the very first time, and I think
1:07:21
the very last time I actually played a solo with
1:07:24
Buck. Because I wasn't necessarily into being
1:07:28
featured as a soloist. I didn't see myself as
1:07:31
a soloist. I was just an accompanist. I was happy
1:07:34
just doing that. Yeah. I wasn't, and I'm still
1:07:39
not a person that enjoys the spotlight being
1:07:42
on me. Is there any other concerts that really
1:07:46
stick out in your mind that we didn't get to
1:07:48
talk about yet? Well, not concerts, but we did
1:07:52
like the Jackie Gleason show. We did the Mike
1:07:55
Douglas show. We did the, could have been the
1:08:00
Dean Martin show. I'm not sure now. But the only
1:08:04
one that really stands out is kind of like. Jackie
1:08:07
Gleason. Oh, yeah? How was that? Well, no, I
1:08:10
just remember I have a photo of us on the bandstand.
1:08:14
Oh, yeah. And so that's a reminder as much. But
1:08:19
nothing really special happened other than just
1:08:23
I had remembered seeing Jackie Gleason growing
1:08:26
up on TV, so I couldn't believe that I was actually
1:08:30
there on stage with him, you know? So... It's
1:08:35
about as much as I can tell you. And I'm thinking
1:08:37
I'm kind of talked out at this point. Yeah. Well,
1:08:43
it's great talking with you as every time is
1:08:45
so fun. Well, it is fun because you make me think
1:08:49
of, if you don't ask questions, I'm not going
1:08:52
to remember stuff. Maybe things that I had never
1:08:55
thought of or hadn't talked about in years, you
1:08:59
know, mainly because I don't live in the past.
1:09:04
Simply put, that's it. And I was going to say
1:09:10
that you're without a doubt the warmest audience
1:09:12
we ever had the opportunity to perform for, and
1:09:15
we'd like to do it again sometime.