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Crystal Renaud Day: Shocking Number Of Women Struggle With Porn? · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

• 0:00
  The 2027 Worldview Matters Conference will take place April 30th and May 1st at the Tundra Lodge Resort, Water Park and Conference Center in Green Bay, Wisconsin.
• 0:10
  Speakers include Andy Woods, Brandon Holthouse, Nathan Jones, Matthew Mayer,
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• 0:46
  Welcome to Worldview Matters.
• 0:48
  Discussing controversial issues.
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  Discerning current events.
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  Defending biblical Christianity.
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  No topic.
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  Off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Fiorazzo.
• 1:03
  Welcome, friends, family in Christ.
• 1:05
  We appreciate you guys so very much.
• 1:06
  You know, we just recorded our 600th episode of Worldview Matters.
• 1:12
  We had Ray Comfort for number 600.
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  We had Ken Ham for number 500.
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  I can go back.
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  But in all of those podcasts, we have never...
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  talked about the topic we're going to touch on today because of a brand new book.
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  And I want to introduce Crystal Renaud Day.
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  She's the CEO and founder of Living on Purpose.
• 1:34
  It's a women's telehealth counseling and coaching practice.
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  And she's also the founder of and executive director of She Recovery.
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  The website is sherecovery.com.
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  It's a virtual recovery community for women facing pornography and other unwanted sexual behaviors.
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  For nearly two decades, she and her team have helped thousands of women in more than 70 countries find healing through counseling, coaching, education, and recovery support.
• 2:07
  Such an important topic.
• 2:08
  That's why I'm so blessed to have Crystal on today.
• 2:11
  Welcome, sister.
• 2:12
  So good to see you.
• 2:12
  Thanks for your time.
• 2:15
  You too.
• 2:15
  Thanks for having me on.
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  I appreciate it.
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  And thank you for the brand new book.
• 2:19
  Congrats on the book.
• 2:21
  What drives women to pornography?
• 2:24
  So before we dive in and answer that question and get into some of the topics you cover through the chapters in your book, I want to mention your first book.
• 2:31
  You've been at this a while, and a lot of churches don't even touch on men in pornography.
• 2:39
  They don't touch on the topic at all, let alone—
• 2:43
  women because people we don't think that's a problem because you don't hear a lot of women struggling with this but back in 2011 you wrote a book called dirty girls come clean and you gave voice to a struggle that had gone largely unaddressed can you touch on that and what led you to this work that you're doing
• 3:05
  Ultimately, this work is stemmed and rooted from my own story.
• 3:09
  I was exposed to pornography at the age of just 10 years old.
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  And that carried me through my adolescence with an addiction to pornography, other unwanted expressions of that.
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  And it wasn't until I was 19 years old.
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  that I met another female who told me her story that was similar to my own.
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  And it was the first time I even knew women struggled with pornography in any kind of way.
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  And so for a while, I was happy to have been in recovery early in my life.
• 3:40
  But I know I was perfectly fine with that being the end of it.
• 3:44
  Thanks, Jesus.
• 3:45
  Got me through it.
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  But really felt like God was saying that, Crystal, you have a story to tell.
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  You've been through something that many women have gone through, and I want you to help them get through it.
• 3:58
  And that's ultimately what led to blogging and eventually writing the book.
• 4:03
  Very interesting.
• 4:04
  So you were 10 years old.
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  You know, when I'm old enough to remember, my first exposure was a Playboy magazine.
• 4:13
  That was just, you had to have it in your hand.
• 4:15
  And then came the internet years later.
• 4:18
  So how did that come about, your first exposure to pornography?
• 4:24
  Similarly, I am now 41.
• 4:26
  So this is 30 years ago, just about that.
• 4:29
  I was exposed to that pornography.
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  And it was a magazine left out by my teenage brother who also shouldn't have had it either.
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  And it was left out one afternoon when I came home from school.
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  And that was the end of it for me.
• 4:44
  That was like the best and worst day of my life.
• 4:47
  So talk to us about, you said it was nine years before you met another woman who you heard also had that problem, that struggle or that addiction.
• 4:58
  Nine years.
• 5:00
  So you must have felt like you were struggling with this secret sin, this addiction that you couldn't tell anyone about.
• 5:07
  Talk to us about those nine years.
• 5:09
  That's very interesting.
• 5:11
  Yeah, so I had heard conversations, maybe a sermon or two, but mostly it was just guys talking about porn.
• 5:20
  You see it in sitcoms where it's made light of and it's men talking about pornography.
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  So what happens with that is that's a messaging that a young woman receives, right?
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  That this is a man's struggle.
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  This is something that only men do.
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  And so if you're living with a struggle that you believe is...
• 5:39
  isolated to you as a woman, then that just compounds that shame, the shame you're already experiencing.
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  Because as a young believer, I also was like, had a lot of shame about knowing what I was doing with sinful.
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  But then to add on the fact that I didn't think women struggled in this way, because of the messaging that I was receiving, that that shame was only compounded and exponentially worse.
• 6:03
  Wow.
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  This is really so good that we're talking about this.
• 6:07
  I'm so thankful for your book.
• 6:09
  Over on the Amazon page, and friends, this just came out a couple days ago, weeks ago, nearly 40% of online pornography is consumed by women.
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  Here now we're into the internet age, Crystal, and young people today, wow, they're dealing with stuff that maybe you and I didn't have to deal with growing up.
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  You've got it at the convenience of your phone and gadgets that are right in front of you.
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  Parents have a hard time keeping up with what their kids are doing, but talk to us about that 40% problem.
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  number because that is really high for a lot of people to understand.
• 6:47
  40% is it?
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  Did I hear that right?
• 6:50
  40% of online porn consumed by women.
• 6:54
  Yes.
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  And that's from the horse's mouth.
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  Really?
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  That is the information we get directly from a website called Pornhub, largest porn site in the world.
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  They love to release their annual statistics to brag about what, you know, who's coming to their site and how often and what they're looking up.
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  But they break it down by gender.
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  And so they said that about 39% to 20, 25 was the number of women.
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  And that's registered accounts, which is something to think about, too.
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  We did a survey ourselves asking women about their porn experiences.
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  We actually asked them, have you ever created an account on a site like Pornhub?
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  86% said no.
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  And so there's something to be considered there where maybe it's actually more than 39% worldwide.
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  Maybe it's actually more women than that.
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  We just don't have the accounts to prove it.
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  So let's talk about a few other numbers.
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  I'm a stat guy.
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  I like research and surveys, and it gives you a better idea.
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  But like you said, the numbers might not be fully accurate.
• 7:55
  But this, out of the notes on your book, it says nearly 60% were first exposed before the age of 13.
• 8:04
  Well, you were exposed at 10 years old when you're a teenager, so nearly 60%.
• 8:11
  And then here's another one, Crystal, and you can respond to either one of these.
• 8:15
  In a study a few years ago, 93% of women had never attended a recovery meeting, meaning they struggled with pornography, but maybe they didn't know how to go about finding a cure, a solution, or getting help.
• 8:30
  I'm sure that's probably consistent with the church not wanting to go and talk to a pastor or open up or share.
• 8:37
  Talk to us a little bit about that or whatever you'd like.
• 8:39
  Yeah.
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  I think it's interesting to look at those numbers, especially the exposure numbers, because we might think that pornography or these sexual behaviors are something that begins in adulthood.
• 8:50
  It's something that we make a conscious choice to enter into or seek out.
• 8:55
  But in reality, you're talking 60% of those we surveyed were exposed to porn or were shown porn or saw porn before the age of 13.
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  Before you have any language for it, understanding of it,
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  Many of those women didn't even know, it didn't have the sex talk yet.
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  And suddenly they're being inundated with something that is really a counterfeit to what we actually know the good design of sex to be.
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  And so it changes your sexual palette, your appetite, how you see humanity, how you see others, how you see, you don't see them as image bearers of God, you see them as a commodity.
• 9:31
  And so it really changes all of that in the mind and in the heart.
• 9:36
  But then if you think about,
• 9:38
  those women who are feeling stuck in it, that 93% who didn't go to a support group, that to me is obviously really sad.
• 9:45
  I've been offering support groups for 20 years, but I'm just one person, which means there just isn't either the opportunity to find, to have a small group, to go to a small group, to go to a support group, or they are still too afraid and too full of shame to go.
• 10:00
  So why do you think, and I know you read about this in the book, why do you think that women's stories or experiences about pornography have gone largely unheard or unshared for so long?
• 10:12
  I think in general, especially if you're looking at it from the church view, from a Christian view, unfortunately, a lot of Christian teaching is that women aren't sexual beings.
• 10:22
  Like we are too pleased, we aren't to be pleasured.
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  And so I think that's a part of it, is that kind of that belief that women aren't visual, aren't necessarily interested sexually, and maybe are the ones who are the tempter, not the temptee.
• 10:40
  And so I think that some of that language, some of that narrative is added to that, which is to me, it's kind of ridiculous because, you know, we are made in the image of God.
• 10:51
  And if man is sexual, so is woman because of that.
• 10:55
  And you can look at how we were made and how our bodies are designed and how it isn't just for procreation.
• 11:00
  It's for pleasure for both.
• 11:09
  That's kept women's issues and struggles overlooked because you aren't, if you can't even admit that they are sexual, then how do you admit that they have, they may have sexual brokenness too.
• 11:22
  I'm so glad you read about this.
• 11:24
  The subtitle of your book, which I didn't mention, says why women struggle sexually and how to heal.
• 11:31
  There's the important part, Crystal.
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  Thank you for covering that as well.
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  You came up with the SCARS model, a practical framework for long term change.
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  S-C-A-R-S. Talk to us a little bit about that.
• 11:46
  Yeah, the SCARS model was actually something that was devised in the first book, 30 Girls Come Clean.
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  And it is, it's an acronym, spells the word SCARS.
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  I was as prayerful, you know, writing that book originally, figuring out, you know, how does this all fit together?
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  How do these steps that have come together, work together?
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  And I was reminded of Thomas in scripture where he is, you know,
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  doubting and questioning even Christ's scars.
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  But what I think is really important is that scars in and of themselves aren't a bad thing.
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  Scars tell a story.
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  It means we have a wounding, but it also means that we have been healed.
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  And so it begins with surrender.
• 12:25
  That's the S is to surrender.
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  It is to say you've become powerless, much like a 12-step program.
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  But not just surrendering to the powerlessness of your struggle, but surrendering to why you reach forward in the first place and coming to understanding of what that might look like.
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  And also surrendering to the one who can truly save you, which is the Lord.
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  And then we go into confession, which is...
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  to be known, to actually share your story with someone, someone who is safe to hear your story.
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  It can be a counselor, it can be a friend, it can be a family member, a church staff member, but being able to bring your story from isolation and darkness into light is that second step.
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  And then accountability is third.
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  That is what it sounds like.
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  It's being accountable, not just to your behavior, not just to have you looked at porn today, but how is your heart doing?
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  being accountable to your own healing.
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  Are you doing the hard work that it takes to recover and to heal?
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  And then responsibility is again, kind of restitution, making amends for how your behavior has affected others and taking responsibility for your own healing.
• 13:31
  But also understanding that many women, our own survey found that 46% of these women were sexually abused.
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  And so while we may not be responsible for what happened to us, we are responsible to heal.
• 13:46
  We were responsible to find that healing.
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  But we also need to relinquish some responsibility because many who experience abuse also carry a lot of guilt and shame and self-blame for those types of things.
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  So we have to relinquish that responsibility as well.
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  And then that last step is to share, is to use your story.
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  It's to allow God to take what happened and redeem it.
• 14:09
  I'm not saying you all have to go on a talk show and do it, but there's going to be women in your life eventually that are going to need you to hear your story and God will lead you to those right women.
• 14:21
  So you just went through part four in your book, Scars, right?
• 14:25
  And there's part five, and then there's much more information here.
• 14:31
  But I love, I'm going back through the table of contents.
• 14:33
  I'm looking at this.
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  What if we're asking the wrong question, chapter one?
• 14:39
  Talk to us a little bit about that, because I think if it's not talked about, maybe we are asking the wrong question.
• 14:45
  Yeah, I think there's two ways to interpret the wrong question.
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  The wrong question, as far as how I've been doing this work for so long, has been do women even struggle with porn?
• 14:55
  That's the wrong question.
• 14:56
  We know now that they do, and the right question is to ask why.
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  And of course, figuring out what drives you, what drives her to pornography.
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  But the other wrong question is, what's wrong with me?
• 15:09
  Or why can't I stop?
• 15:11
  The real question is, why do you reach for it in the first place?
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  And how do you heal?
• 15:17
  Okay, now I know you get into these in depth in the book, but you talk about five primary drivers that commonly underlie women's pornography use.
• 15:28
  And this is the book title, What Drives Women to Porn?
• 15:31
  Again, friends, each of these is a chapter.
• 15:34
  But can you just touch on briefly each one of them?
• 15:38
  Yes.
• 15:38
  So we, really it's, it's been well informed by our survey that we did, well informed by the women that I have worked with for two decades, but also informed by my own experience and my own stories, own story.
• 15:50
  And so we found basically five drivers of female porn use, which really we could also translate into men's experiences as well.
• 15:58
  But you can, you have emotional reasons.
• 16:01
  You have emotions.
• 16:02
  relational drivers, you have identity drivers, you have traumatic drivers, and you have spiritual drivers.
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  And it's not that one woman has one of these, she could actually have a combination of all five going on that are keeping her going back to pornography or other acting out behaviors again and again and again as part of that addiction cycle.
• 16:25
  So let's talk about what we touched on briefly, and that is women have a hard time maybe approaching a pastor or a brother or a sister in Christ when the church should be a safe place.
• 16:38
  We should be able to share our struggles.
• 16:40
  I think a lot of people don't.
• 16:43
  So as far as women in pornography, why do you think it's so hard for women to get help at church?
• 16:51
  I don't think they see their experience presented to them.
• 16:55
  Like going back to my conversation about you're, you're not hearing the right sermons.
• 16:59
  You're hearing it from a very male centric perspective.
• 17:03
  And so if she's not seeing her experience being shown as, as a safe place to take it, like, cause if she, if she doesn't know that, that, you know, she, she isn't alone in the struggle, I think it was like 69% of our ladies thought they were alone too.
• 17:16
  So it's,
• 17:18
  if she doesn't see her experience presented in front of her as a path to help, then she's going to continue to kind of, you know, isolate, enter back into herself, experience that shame and that isolation.
• 17:31
  And honestly, again, I'll just say this truthfully, like when you're in addiction, there's some selfishness going on.
• 17:37
  There's a little bit of like, I hate this thing, but I also know that it's doing something for me.
• 17:42
  And so it's easy to make excuses for why you can't get help.
• 17:47
  And sometimes that excuse is the lack of general awareness in your church or in your culture where it's not the path to recovery, the path to healing is not evident.
• 18:01
  Okay, so let's go back to the very beginning of the book.
• 18:05
  And I want to ask you, I mean, the title, What Drives Women to Porn?
• 18:10
  You dedicated the book to your dad.
• 18:14
  Tell us about that, Crystal.
• 18:16
  Yeah, I lost my dad last year.
• 18:18
  Sorry.
• 18:21
  He passed away suddenly in June of last year.
• 18:24
  Um, and it's, you know, um, I, and I miss him a great deal, but, uh, I dedicated the book to him, um, in part because, uh, he was a champion for me in this work.
• 18:38
  Even if he didn't understand it, even if he didn't even want to hear about it, um, he was still a champion for it because he, he laid a foundation for me to be able to go back to school, to get the training that I needed to, um, um, to, um, to, um, to, um,
• 18:51
  And live with them for much longer than anybody should live with their parents.
• 18:56
  But it was encouraging and allowed me to pursue the calling that God had on my life.
• 19:02
  Hmm.
• 19:03
  Sounds like a wonderful man.
• 19:05
  Well, thank God we get to see them again.
• 19:07
  You know, just personally, two years ago, I lost my mom.
• 19:11
  That was probably, if not the hardest year in my life, one of them, one of the top.
• 19:16
  So I'm sorry to hear what you're going through, but thank God for the hope we have in Christ.
• 19:21
  So this is going by very, very fast, Crystal.
• 19:25
  You were really the first person writing about this specifically for women.
• 19:31
  So what has changed in the 20 years plus since you started writing about it?
• 19:37
  I mean, I know there's more awareness now, maybe.
• 19:39
  But what's changed?
• 19:40
  Because, my goodness, you would think...
• 19:43
  50 years ago or 25 years ago, there'd be a book or articles or something on this, but you were kind of like a groundbreaker.
• 19:50
  Go ahead.
• 19:52
  Yeah, so the very first group I ever led was in 2007, so almost 20 years ago, and there was nothing, nothing available on the shelves, whether it was Christian or secular, on female pornography use.
• 20:09
  At the time, there were two books, both by the same author, Marnie Faree, who is now retired.
• 20:15
  I call her the grandmother of female sex addiction recovery.
• 20:21
  Um, but, uh, but her books were largely rooted in sex addiction, where it was a lot of women's stories and experiences and even her own of having, um, numerous affairs and being more, more promiscuous where it wasn't necessarily pornography or pornography related behaviors, but more of that more external relationship looking, uh, struggle.
• 20:42
  And so as I was, you know,
• 20:44
  Leading this group, it was helpful, but it wasn't exactly our experiences.
• 20:49
  And so I ended up writing Dirty Girls Come Clean.
• 20:52
  Since then, yes, Dirty Girls Come Clean created awareness.
• 20:58
  She Recovery, my organization, created awareness.
• 21:00
  And awareness is good, but we needed more than awareness.
• 21:05
  We need to actually heal, right?
• 21:07
  And that's in part why I went back to school and I got my counseling degree.
• 21:12
  But there's the need for...
• 21:16
  And we've seen it where there's more women who are telling their stories.
• 21:19
  So you can go on Amazon, you can find other women writing about their stories like Jessica Harris or Joyce Garka.
• 21:25
  And they have written their experiences down and paths to healing as well.
• 21:29
  And that's something that hasn't happened or has happened in the last 15 years.
• 21:33
  And I, I will humbly say likely because of what I was able to lay the foundation for, but I also give a lot of credit to Marnie for kind of opening the gates on it.
• 21:43
  But certainly now there is more awareness, but there still is precious few resources in terms of spaces for women to heal in community.
• 21:53
  Yeah, I think just the numbers that we talked about earlier in the podcast that are coming out now, not a lot of people have heard anything close to that.
• 22:02
  And I'll go to your Amazon page again.
• 22:04
  Nearly 40% of online porn consumed by women.
• 22:09
  We have a hard time wrapping our heads around that only because we haven't heard anything.
• 22:14
  truthful reporting or testimonies or information on women and pornography.
• 22:21
  So, boy, it's going by fast.
• 22:23
  A couple more questions for you, Crystal.
• 22:27
  Why...
• 22:28
  Women struggle for years, but they pray, they try to go to church, they try to seek accountability, they keep trying harder.
• 22:36
  But why do you think some, and maybe most, I don't know, and I think this is relatable to men and pornography too, why do you think the struggle continues?
• 22:47
  Because they're not getting to the root of it.
• 22:49
  They're not getting to the reasons why they're reaching for it in the first place.
• 22:54
  There's a big difference between sobriety and healing, which is what I talk about a lot in the book.
• 23:00
  You can be sober from alcohol and drugs and sex and porn, but still be very unhealthy emotionally.
• 23:09
  And you are still gravitating towards things that maybe aren't so good for you, but maybe are a little bit more acceptable.
• 23:16
  And so if you're if you don't deal with what's underneath it, you can keep trying harder and harder and harder.
• 23:22
  But there's going to be a propensity or you're susceptible to returning to it.
• 23:27
  One, because it's familiar and just because something is familiar doesn't mean that it's wanted.
• 23:32
  It's just familiar.
• 23:33
  But also there's a nervous system in your body that has learned to cope with unwanted or uncomfortable emotions.
• 23:42
  And it's like, hey, remember that thing that we've always done that always seemed to work, that always seemed to help?
• 23:47
  Let's go back to that because we know that it works.
• 23:49
  And your nervous system is designed for that.
• 23:52
  It's designed that way.
• 23:54
  But if you don't deal with the why and give your nervous system something else to feast on, give it a new pathway, then that is going to continue to be where you go.
• 24:05
  All right, Crystal, I don't want to run out of time before I ask you this question.
• 24:09
  I would think the majority of our viewers and listeners have possibly never heard a sermon on pornography or pornography when it relates to women.
• 24:23
  What would you say to people, a lot of people in our audience from across the country and many other countries, that think, well, my pastor's never talked about this.
• 24:33
  How can we lovingly approach a pastor and maybe share this information?
• 24:39
  Yeah, I don't have the exact statistic.
• 24:41
  I know you're a stats guy, but I don't have the right one in my head right now.
• 24:45
  But there's actually a fairly big reason that pastors don't talk about porn, and it's because they're using porn themselves.
• 24:52
  I want to say it's a I think it's at least 40 percent of pastors are using pornography, too.
• 24:57
  You can actually find this information from the Barna Group.
• 25:00
  They did a church survey and they redid it two years ago.
• 25:03
  And so you can look that up yourself.
• 25:06
  But you know,
• 25:07
  I think that there's some of that is involved in it just because they don't want to expose even themselves at all in talking about it.
• 25:16
  And there could be a lot of shame involved in that as well, obviously.
• 25:20
  And so I would say like, send it anonymously if you have to, but write into your church and say, Hey, we need to be talking about porn more right on the back of your connect card and your bulletin and submit that, you know it's just important that you,
• 25:35
  Because even if your pastor is struggling, he shouldn't be struggling alone, right?
• 25:38
  So we need to be, the church needs to be a safe space for even him to confess.
• 25:44
  But so, yeah, I think it's just really important.
• 25:47
  And if there is a pastor listening, maybe you have or haven't done a sermon on porn before, but maybe if you did, it was directed towards men.
• 25:56
  It's a very simple solution for that.
• 25:58
  And it's talk about it again, and then just add two words to your sermon.
• 26:02
  And it's, and women.
• 26:05
  Men and women struggle with pornography.
• 26:09
  And what that does is it tells the girl who's like me, who is in your congregation, who feels alone, who feels invisible, she's not alone.
• 26:17
  And then you see her and that there's hope for her.
• 26:20
  Great, great answer.
• 26:21
  Thank you, friends.
• 26:23
  Take that to heart, and we need to ask our pastors about this important topic.
• 26:28
  By the way, we just had George Barna on last week, so what a blessing.
• 26:34
  I love the stats, but some of these numbers, at least to me, the way I see things, they really jump out at you, because especially if we haven't heard a lot of information or reports on this, Crystal, congrats on the very important book that...
• 26:47
  Friends, it just came out.
• 26:49
  Please check it out.
• 26:49
  Crystal Renault Day on Amazon, or you can go to her website, sherecovery.com.
• 26:57
  The book site is WDWTP.com.
• 27:02
  But go to sherecovery.com.
• 27:04
  Thank you for your time today.
• 27:05
  Hopefully we can keep in touch.
• 27:07
  Yeah, thank you so much.
• 27:09
  You're most welcome, Crystal.
• 27:10
  Very important, friends.
• 27:11
  And now we can say we covered the topic because I don't know how many other topics we haven't done in 600-plus podcasts, but now we're covering these on shows that I think are really important, and these are really things people struggle with, especially young people today, with all the things that bombard our youth at younger and younger ages.
• 27:32
  Very important.
• 27:33
  God bless you, friends, and as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.
• 27:38
  We'll see you next time.
• 27:39
  Bye.