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Pandemic Response, Part One · System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Over:
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to long time listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: We were in quarantine for, I think, twelve days by ourselves after our trip to California. So after twelve days of quarantine on our own, it is now week two of quarantine with our family. Our daughter's surgery has been canceled. All of the schools have been closed until next year. And now no one is to leave their homes, even to play in their yards.
• 1:35
  We can go out on decks and patios, but we're not to go further than that. We are permitted to go to the grocery store and the pharmacy. We've had to homeschool the children in the past, so the children are used to that, and we are used to that. The difference this time is that we have to follow the online school curriculum for the children, which means all six children have five different logins for math and for reading and for turning in assignments and for Zoom meetings. And so that's 30 logins, and it's like a whole class of trying to track everything.
• 2:18
  And teachers will just email and say, we're having a meeting tomorrow at two, which doesn't actually take into account very much warning for us or our plans, which I know we can't go anywhere, but we still are trying to organize our days. And we have six children. So six children with one laptop. And so it's been kind of hectic. We're also trying to work on our computer.
• 2:45
  Both the husband and I both have to work online for our work anyway, but sharing the laptop with eight people has gotten intense and is difficult and means always one of us is working somewhere, which makes it hard to just enjoy our time together as a family. But we're rotating activities as best we can and just trying really hard to be flexible with everything. We did last week get to enjoy some time in our yard working on spring cleanup before we couldn't be in our yards. So we got the lawn mowed and we got the gardens prepared for spring and trying to grow our food. We always do, but now it feels more imperative somehow if this is really a long term thing.
• 3:37
  I know we have lost more than half of our clients online because of people losing their jobs and so even though we work online, we've lost a great deal of our income and that feels super difficult. And so that's scary because we have a big family and I know the whole world is feeling the same pressure and worried about the economy secondary to keeping everyone as healthy as possible and protecting the hospitals. The impact on the hospitals for us was the cancellation of our daughter's surgery. They have officially moved her to the there's nothing we can do list because of her quality of life and long term prognosis and them having to prioritize caring for those who will be able to live well and longer. So it's scary frustrating and so many big feelings we can't even think about right now.
• 4:44
  But we're now a week away from when she would have surgery. It feels like the closer we get to that, the bigger those feelings are and the shifting and settling of it. The other piece that's just difficult is balancing being present and dissociating and trying to function in the roles required of us in this season. Obviously, a lot of parenting and a lot of caring for the children is now suddenly on our shoulders for a great deal of the time without any sort of respite from that. And we are doing fine.
• 5:29
  Everyone has stayed calm. The children are happy and well. They bicker sometimes, but it actually hasn't been that bad yet. They're doing alright, and we're really proud of how they're handling everything. But it does mean that we don't have as much downtime.
• 5:49
  There's not time to write for therapy. There's not time to process things for therapy. There's not time to take a break. We still have to get up at two or three in the morning to work as much as we can before the children are awake. But now because they don't go to school there's no downtime to just play in the hammock or meet games.
• 6:12
  There are some things that we can do with them, but it's not the same. And there's more and more shifting and changing and adapting those experiences to our new routine of being home together all the time. And so we're doing that alright and functioning well, but it's becoming more difficult to connect with our friends or to find ways to stay grounded in some ways. I think that the more we try to brick things up inside also the more access we lost some of those things like I can't draw, I can't paint, I can't write. But I'm trying to write in chunks and then too much comes out and so there's some flooding I know now from the new therapist that it's called flooding and so we're trying to work on containing that but it's very difficult.
• 7:32
  There's also several different issues that have come up where we either need to change the structure of how we're organized in some way that I don't understand how to do or I'm just gonna lose my grip. I don't know how to explain it but I feel myself slipping away. I try to focus on the things that we can do and how our needs are being met. Like we have some food anxiety only because the children being hungry is a trigger for us and losing money makes it harder to buy food. We actually have what we need right now.
• 8:11
  I don't know how long we're going to be in this situation so that makes it scary. Also, people have dropped off food at our house for which we're very grateful. But also the children still so far get lunch and breakfast at school. We walk to the school each day for a no contact delivery of a sack that has their breakfast and their lunch in it. And so that's really, really helping a lot.
• 8:43
  I don't know how we would feed them without that. Really part of it is that it's hard to not just compare ourselves that we have more than most and we're safer than most and even when we were sick it was very mild and our daughter's surgery was cancelled but she's doing okay. So it's hard to complain about anything. It's hard to not compare to anything. But it's also getting harder to remember anything.
• 9:25
  Like everything except for what's happening right now feels further and further away. Like I can literally feel it fading. It's harder to remember before. It's harder to remember. It's harder to remember.
• 9:43
  I don't know how to explain it. It's definitely an active processing of what's happening right now and just being very present with the children. But we don't have m the way we had m before, and so everything is different, and we can't can't do things the same as we did before which in many ways is good and healthier. But also I don't know how to do this well and hold on to before And I know that doesn't make sense. The other thing I noticed is I was driving to an appointment which we had permission because it was a doctor's appointment and I was watching as we drove past one of the charities that does food for the community and the line was all the way down the street.
• 10:36
  Like so many people need food and there's not any food on the grocery stores here and the line was just all the way down the street. And I was thinking about that and being grateful that we were prepared in the ways we were, that people have helped us in the way that they have, and trying to just focus on what else we can do to help. We mailed a tiny bit of food to some of our friends. We like nothing even significant. It was just literally all we had to share.
• 11:15
  And one time someone dropped off bread and milk and then someone else dropped off bread and milk. We took some of the bread and milk to our neighbor who also has four children. So like we're trying to help in the ways that we can, but it's just really hard to function. When I was driving to that appointment, I was behind a police car and it was a black SUV of some kind And that doesn't matter except that on the bottom on the bumper, it had big yellow stickers for the number of the police car. So it's at 5089.
• 11:58
  And I just kept staring at it. And even after the car turned, the numbers just kept playing in my head. 5089. 5 0 8 9. Like, I was so hyper focused on that.
• 12:10
  It wasn't a trigger. It didn't remind me of anything. It didn't mean anything. But I couldn't stop thinking about that to the same degree. Like, I was such a sharp focus to the same degree as I can't remember other things that are so so fuzzy that I should know better.
• 12:31
  Like, it's like everything is opposite. I don't know how to explain it. Like, the things that don't matter are super specific, and the things that I want to hang on to are getting fuzzier and fuzzier. Like, it's all slipping through my fingers. And then I was thinking about this all day, and then finally I realized it wasn't the numbers.
• 12:56
  It's that they were yellow. And my best friend loves yellow, and it reminded me of her. And it was like, oh, yeah. I need to get my phone, and I need to text her and I need to connect with her and not lose that. I don't wanna ruin that and I don't want to let go of that, but I I don't know how to hold on to myself.
• 13:22
  I don't even feel like I'm in my own skin. And I'm trying to do all the things. Like, I'm getting up, and I'm getting dressed every day. I'm eating. I am exercising with the children every day.
• 13:38
  I'm making sure that they have what they need. We're cleaning our home. We're cleaning the yard while we could still be outside. Like, we're doing all these things that are functioning things. And so really in the moment with my family, everything's fine.
• 13:55
  Everything is okay. And we're not actually in crisis at all, not yet other than the whole pandemic context. But also at the same time, that's like become the whole world. Like, as that becomes the new world, then it's like everything before like, I can't remember the therapist. The therapist released a video which she actually said I could share about like, our therapist therapist from Oklahoma released a video which she said was public, and we asked her specifically about sharing, and she said we could share it.
• 14:42
  And so I might play it in a minute. Although I don't think I wanna share the link directly only because of my own privacy, which seems moot at this point, but it doesn't bother her. But just for me, I don't know that I'm comfortable with that. I don't know. But, anyway, she shared this video and was just talking to people in general about how to handle the pandemic emotionally, but I couldn't look at her.
• 15:23
  Like, it hurt me to look at her. I had to turn it around. I could listen to it. I could hear it, but I couldn't see her. And I don't know if it's because I didn't look at her enough when I had the chance or if it's because the grief is still raw or if it's because now everybody sees her online and I didn't and don't.
• 15:59
  Or I I I I don't know what it was I was feeling. I think I didn't talk to her about this, and I need to focus on my own therapy, but it's really, really hard. And I think that part of dissociating, even when you're trying to stay present with your family or with your little world wherever you are stuck right now, why we all can't go outside and connect in your own apartment, whether you have a family or not, I think part of protecting ourselves is that because we can't turn to those normal places for comfort, and, like, I'm trying to think about all the things we've learned in the last year with the podcast and the interviews and everything people have taught us about mammals turning towards their caregivers and the reptilian part of your brain turning away from danger. When you can't turn toward because literally the pandemic, you can't connect with people in traditional ways, I mean. I can't go visit.
• 17:18
  I can't go there. I think the pain of that is such a rupture and hurt so much that there's this running away from the pain internally that it's too overwhelming. And so there's just this disconnect happening that I'm scrambling and trying really hard to fight and trying really hard to stay, but I don't know that I can. I don't know that I'm strong enough. And without the feedback or without that connection, my friend has been so good to keep trying and keep trying.
• 18:00
  And and so I've I I'm holding on. And I think that's probably why we were able to become friends in the first place because she just stayed present without overwhelming me and stayed present without pressuring me and stayed present without being intrusive, which is a really hard balance. But I think it's why I've been able to stay connected with her, but I'm not able to talk to her all day like I used to. It's not the same as before because it's like fighting through a fog to get there. This is actually one of the problems with being more out as a system or more overt as a system because traditionally we could use the system internally to sort of handle that and mitigate that and navigate that.
• 18:56
  But when everybody knows everything, then you're seen all the time and there's nowhere to hide. And that doesn't feel good even though no one means anything bad. Like there's nowhere to retreat that I don't know how to process connecting when we can't connect, and I don't know how to process the fear of losing connection just because my capacity is limited right now. I'm not even sure how to express what's happening but I can say that I feel myself fading. I can feel things changing.
• 19:41
  I know that we're struggling, but also at home with the family everything's going just fine. It really is. And we're safe and well. And through miracles and the gifts of others we have what we need for today and we're just taking it one day at a time like everyone else. I know that as America follows the numbers and how many weeks we are behind what's happening in Italy, that where I live we're about a week behind New York City and California.
• 20:23
  And here, the hospitals are already full, and Kansas and Oklahoma and Texas are already out of ventilators, and our daughter's surgery has already been canceled. And so we know that even as hard as the last three weeks in isolation have been, that it's still going to be more weeks of it being difficult. It's starting to turn to spring here, and usually that brings a great deal of hope. I know people are still waiting to see if summer helps with the virus or not. And maybe by time this airs, if I even edit it and let it get released, maybe by then we'll know things differently.
• 21:15
  But everyone is trying their best and doing what they can. So I'll share with you what the therapist has said on her public page, with her permission. I don't want to show the videos. I don't think that right now I'm comfortable putting the link on our Facebook page, but I'll play the audio. And there's two separate videos that she did so far, and so I'll put those on in case it's helpful to anyone.
• 21:51
  I will edit just the very first sentence because she says her name and her credentials and where she's at. And so I'm going to delete just that part, but the rest of it I'll play for you. The first video and then there's a second video.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Hi. I just wanted to get on here very quickly and try to help some people who are experiencing some symptoms of the coronavirus that are not physical. This is affecting us mentally and emotionally, and I wanted to address that. Some of you are having some feelings that are concerning to you, some feelings that are probably pretty normal, feelings of fear, anxiety, panic, depression, and I want you to know that it's okay to be feeling that. That's normal.
• 22:40
  But I also want to encourage you to embrace those feelings. Let those feelings happen because when we deny feelings, it actually creates a whole another set of problems. We sit around and we eat ice cream. We shop on Amazon all day. We're short with our children.
• 22:55
  So embrace those feelings that are unpleasant, and then I wanna try to teach you a couple of techniques or some things you might be able to do differently to sort of send them on their way. Our psyche sends us information, so those feelings are just information that there might be something anxious about. There might be something out there to be afraid of. There might be some things out there that are depressing or sad. And so that's real.
• 23:22
  That's congruent with what's happening in our world. So don't try to deny that. It's congruent with what's happening, so embrace it. And then learning how to send it on, all that looks like is the reality or the recognition that our brain and our psyche is capable of managing multiple emotions and multiple thoughts at the same time. And so we choose one that is simply more pleasant.
• 23:46
  So even though I'm scared that I might get sick, I can also be thankful that I'm not currently. Or I might be scared that somebody in my family is going to get ill, but I can be thankful or grateful that there are people out on the front lines every day in healthcare that are trying to combat this well. I can look at the things around me, the pastors and the volunteers that are taking care of the elderly, and those kind of things that really are things to be grateful for. And so even though it's anxiety producing, it also is motivating and it's encouraging how some of the human beings around us are responding. And so simply moving to a feeling and trying to embrace a feeling that is more pleasant for a longer length of time than the feelings that are not pleasant.
• 24:34
  Okay? Those are your feelings. So embrace them and then send them on their way and embrace a different one that you'd like to have for longer because both are real. Both are should be validated. One is more pleasant and is going to be more beneficial to your day.
• 24:51
  It's going to be more beneficial to your attitude, and it's going be more beneficial in the long run to your physical health because our feelings and our emotions affect our physical health. The next thing we have that are is kind of problematic are our thoughts. Some of you are having some runaway thoughts, some thoughts that are hard to stop. We can't always control the thoughts that come into our minds. There's so much stimulus out there, especially if you're watching the news or you're on social media, where a thought comes into our mind that is pretty negative or even scary or anxiety producing.
• 25:22
  We can't always control that. What we can control is how long we entertain those thoughts. Are we writing those scripts forward? I can have the thought that I might get sick, but then am I planning my funeral or am I planning my children being without a mother? I have control right after that initial thought.
• 25:41
  And so learning how to stop those thoughts and move to a different line of thinking is going to be really, really beneficial to you in these times. And so although we can't control those initial thoughts, we can control the movie that we play forward in our mind of thinking. And so I would encourage you to stay in the what is. Lots of those initial thoughts are what if. What if this happens?
• 26:05
  What if that happens? And then we write the script forward with more what ifs. I would encourage you to stay in the what is. What is is right now you have a lot of control over the degree to which you or your family might be contaminated. You have some control over what you're doing as a precaution.
• 26:25
  You have some control over your interactions and reactions to social media or TV. What is is much more empowering than what if because we have some control over what is. And typically what is is much better than what if. We tend to think what if in catastrophic type of way. And what is is much more empowering.
• 26:50
  I also want to encourage you all to remember that most of us, lots of us, are home right now with our children, and no matter how old your kids are, whether they're seven or 70, they take their cues from you about how to respond to the world, about how to respond to life, how to respond in crisis. We have the opportunity right now to be teaching them things like resiliency and compassion and preparedness. We can engage them in ways that are helpful to our community by writing cards to shut ins or making phone calls to grandparents, reaching out to people through FaceTime or those kind of things that can be really, really up uplifting. Or unfortunately, we also have the opportunity to be hardwiring into them lessons of depression or fear or panic or teaching them how to be anxious or shutting down. And so I would encourage to consider what we are doing emotionally, mentally, physically, relationally, and spiritually because we are multifaceted people.
• 27:53
  This is not just a physical ailment or illness. This is our opportunity to shine in a lot of those other areas. This will end. I encourage you to turn some pages on the calendar, stick a star on a date in three or four weeks, six months, I don't care where you choose, but it is going to end. And then I would encourage you to say, when I am sitting on this day in history, I'm gonna look back on this, and this is how I want to have I want to say that I managed it.
• 28:22
  This is how I want to say I handled it with my family. Because if you'll give yourself that goal, then every day you can look at your choices, your behavior, your attitude, your feelings, your thoughts, and do they line up with how I want to say I've handled this? Do they line up with the person I want to be in the future? So I would encourage you to do that. I would also encourage you to to realize that when something like this happens, all of the other stresses in your life didn't change.
• 28:49
  You still have all those other things you're trying to manage, and so be kind to yourself because your threshold is different. All of our threshold are different. Take care of all of you.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: And the second video.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: I'm coming to you with another video to talk about the symptoms that we are experiencing from the coronavirus that are not physical. This is messing with us emotionally and mentally. Many of you are sitting at home feeling feelings and having thoughts that are throwing you off and that, quite frankly, you don't like. You're beginning to realize that the people that you're quarantined with, primarily yourself, you don't enjoy their company. And I'm here to encourage you that just because the numbing behaviors have been stripped away from us, the the numbing behavior of overworking or go go go to avoid ourselves, It's now giving us the opportunity to actually sit with ourselves and feel our feelings and have our thoughts.
• 29:57
  And we are not a culture who does that well because we have such fantastic numbing behaviors in America that, quite frankly, we praise people for. And now you're feeling the feelings and having the thoughts that are overwhelming to you or that you don't like, and therefore, you're not liking yourself. Some of you might be having feelings come up from childhood even, from childhood abuse or neglect, or from how you were just treated that you're unlovable or unlikable, or maybe you're having feelings from adulthood that I don't think I'm happy in my marriage, or I'm not a good parent, or I'm not as far along in life as I want to be. And those thoughts and feelings are scaring you, and so you're finding new numbing activities to try to make those thoughts and feelings go away. We're eating tubs of ice cream.
• 30:47
  We're staying on our news feed for hours at a time. We're shopping and I mean, we're just trying to find within the quarantine new numbing activities. And I would encourage you instead to stop and feel those feelings and have those thoughts because all they are is information. Those feelings and thoughts are not your identity. They're not who you are.
• 31:11
  K? Just because you think, I don't think I'm happy in my marriage, doesn't make you a bad spouse. Just because you think, I feel unlovable, doesn't mean that that's true. Just because you think, I'm I'm a bad parent, doesn't make you a bad person. Those are just information.
• 31:28
  If you think about your psyche in layers, those are just the top layer. All they are is information. They are not who you are. And so have those feelings, have those thoughts, be willing to address those, put words to them, because then you can actually peel that layer back and begin to address the things that could change those thoughts and feelings. Because underneath those feelings is empowerment.
• 31:53
  So if I think I'm not happy in my marriage and I'm willing to sit in that, then I can go, okay. What am I willing to do to be happy in my marriage? What do I need to do to get happy in my marriage? Maybe I'm having thoughts from childhood that that I'm unlovable, and I think, ugh. That that makes my company not very good company to keep because I'm spending time all day long with an unlovable person.
• 32:17
  But what if I were to tell you that thought and that that feeling is not accurate, and I challenged you to begin to realize you are lovable, and that that thought or feeling does not define you unless you allow it to define you? Those thoughts and feelings are just information, and if I don't like the information I'm getting or feeling or thinking, I get to change it. Because underneath that layer is where empowerment lives and where you'll find this amazing, unique, individually crafted person who is fantastic, who is lovable, who can do and be anything you desire to be. And so if you want a better marriage, that's where empowerment lives. If you desire to care about yourself differently, that's where changes happen.
• 33:04
  And so as you sit in the opportunity to have these thoughts and feelings, you actually can begin to change them. And it is an amazing skill. It is a beautiful skill to actually develop the ability to like the company that you keep with yourself. To like the person that you are. And so I would encourage you to use this opportunity not to acquire more numbing skills, not to get coping skills that help you avoid yourself, but I would encourage you to use this time to sit with yourself, get to know yourself, and actually care about yourself differently in a way that lines up with the person that you desire to be.
• 33:47
  So that at the end of this, you come out of it more whole, that you come out of it stronger, that you come out of it with the ability to say I cared for myself well. That I truly believe that I am uniquely wired and individually gifted. That I am precious and purposed beyond my own comprehension and probably beyond my own comfort because that is a skill that is worth having. And so I'm here today just to encourage you to take this opportunity once again to, yes, pay attention to the stuff we need to be doing physically to keep ourselves safe, but let's also use this opportunity to care for ourselves well mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. Take care of all of you.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: Now you guys know what boot camp with a therapist is like and how intense it is and there's no wallowing around. You have to get to work and you always have a choice so you're responsible for the life that you're creating and that can be pretty intense. It was interesting to have access to a video of her teaching something because I can't actually remember being in therapy with her. There are moments of things I can pull, like I can remember the room because we talked about it in therapy with EMDR with the new therapist. And there are some pieces I can remember, like the peppermints.
• 35:31
  I can remember her shoes. I can remember brushing my daughter's hair or combing or braiding her hair there one time, but I don't remember her teaching me any of those things that are in the video. And I think I just assume it is because I wasn't talking enough or doing it well or doing it right. And so I think that I wasn't getting to that point of being able to be so active is what she was saying was possible. There's a difference between it being possible and me being ready.
• 36:16
  And to even say that we always have a choice requires some capacity to be able to start choosing. And so that's one reason that we really want to work hard in therapy now, even though we have a new therapist, because we want to start choosing. And so normally, it would feel like starting all the way over with a new therapist, but instead, we are really just stepping up and trying hard to just start talking. So the new therapist is absolutely a stranger to us, except that we finally found one where our insurance is accepted and is close to home, and we feel safe there. And so we are not messing around.
• 37:14
  We have jumped straight in, and we are not worrying about even getting to know her or feeling safe there or taking time to do any of that work because now that we understand the principle of it and what we want to do to get better, we are not wasting time. We don't have time to waste. We want to be better, and we want to do it and do the work to get there even though it's uncomfortable and unpleasant most of the time. That being said, even though it's really hard work, we're actually doing well. And even in the context of this pandemic, we are safe with our family and functioning really well with them.
• 38:03
  And other than feeling a bit more separated from the past, we're really, really staying present. And I don't think that being separated from the past is necessarily a bad thing. At first, I was worried that it was just like someone new or a kind of dissociating that was different than what I'd experienced in the past. But what now I understand, I think, is that it's more about the past isn't in the present all the time. And because it's not in the present all the time, it feels further away.
• 38:47
  But I think that's how it's supposed to feel in a good and healthy way. So it's contained when we're not in therapy, and when we do go to therapy, we work really hard and talk about the hard things. And then we break it up, meaning, like, it in with EMDR to leave it until next week. And that is working for us right now. And so I'm really grateful for our improved functioning and really being okay, even though the context around us is really difficult.
• 39:28
  So it's a reminder that now time is safe, even when what's happening around us is really, really hard. And also the husband said that maybe we don't remember being with the therapist in therapy because she was with someone else. And that's not always in my head as much all the time now, and we're really trying to change some of that. And so maybe that's why I don't have access to it. I don't know.
• 40:01
  We are just adjusting, I guess. It's a lot to learn. But now we have these videos we can listen to, and I feel like there are some inside who would be really glad to hear them or see them if I would let them. But right now, for staying in control and regulating all that's going on. I've not shared it or listened or watched them, but maybe I can practice that with therapy or after therapy or using some EMDR to let that in and then process more because it's almost like there's an inside quarantine and an outside quarantine with everything bricked up inside and then being locked down with our family because of COVID nineteen.
• 41:03
  So there is a strange parallel happening externally and internally, but it was at least a voice of hope and she was trying to help people and said that we could share it in case it's helpful to you. So I'm glad you got to hear her and I hope that some of what she shared was helpful because I know she just wanted to give a voice to many and offer some hope. I know that if she were here talking to you, just you and her in a room, what she would want you to know is that now time is still safe and that you really are loved and lovable and that that would be more important to her to share than all the other things. And so I hope listening to her ideas and suggestions, things that many of us know and are trying to practice, I hope it is helpful in some way while we are all going through this together across the world. Thank you for listening.
• 42:13
  Your support of the podcast, the workbooks, and the community means so much to us as we try to create something together that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing, and you can join us on the community at www.systemsspeak.com. We'll see you there.