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Episode 90 - Andrea DiMella - Atlas Venture · The BioHub - by Avetix

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This episode of the Bio Hub podcast, we're delighted to be
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joined by Andrea D'mella, who heads up the talent function
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Atlas venture. Andrea and the team are that's a
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building some of the most interesting bias companies out
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there. And yeah, she calls upon I think
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20 odd years at executive recruiting experience less than
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a. Capital number of years.
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Yeah. So, yeah, really looking forward
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to getting your insights, Andrew, on this on this call.
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And yeah, I'm sure they'll have some interesting take homes for
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the audience as well, so. Fantastic.
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Thanks for having. Me no awesome to get into it.
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I guess I'm going to rewind the clock.
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Sorry you started out actually on on the bench right.
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You started out in the head and then.
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Yes, I was as an undergrad, studied molecular biology and
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and had yet to figure out if I wanted to go the PhD or the MD
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track. And when I graduated I thought
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getting experience at the bench would help me answer those
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questions. I was particularly interested in
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research and moved up to San Francisco and, and got a
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position at UCSF, actually in Stan Prusner's lab.
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And this was prior to him winning the Nobel.
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And so, you know, I was doing the thing.
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I was studying disease and being around professors and doctors
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and postdocs and graduate students.
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And I'd like to say that it enhanced my interest in science,
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and I do think it did. But I also witnessed, you know,
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the competition in academia and, you know, the striving for
2:00
funding. And there were a lot of kind of
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forces at play that ultimately led me to getting a bench job in
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industry. And I think that was 1 kind of
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inflection point where I enjoyed being around people other than
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different phenotypes than myself.
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And so obviously in industry you have an entire company of
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finance people, biology people, chemistry, marketing, regulatory
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and that diversity plus the pace of work at industry felt more my
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style. And so for a while that kind of
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kept my interest and I enjoyed doing the drug discovery
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projects and focusing on different indications and
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whatnot. And so a good seven years in of
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enjoying employment and having my nights free, I think I talked
3:03
myself out of going back to school and at the same time
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talked myself into finding something that allowed me to
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leverage my scientific background but didn't have me
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spending the whole day alone in a lab.
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I was a pool only. I wanted that personal side of
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my personality to get some action.
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And so I talked to a recruiter about maybe moving into a
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regulatory or project management and the recruiter talked me into
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recruiting and I haven't looked back since.
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So I do think that time at the bench helped me understand the,
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you know, the the diversity of acumen that you need to have to
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push science forward, especially when thinking about impact to
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patients and recruiting is all about talking to people.
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So I really did do the full switch and put on that
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relationship hat and have stayed in the recruiting for biotech
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and pharma ever since. It's all about putting yourself
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in other people's shoes. Recruiting often, Absolutely.
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That all helped. I mean, not being in exactly the
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same shoes, but similar shoes to be able to put yourself in
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people sitting. Yeah.
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Yeah, I think, you know, having an ear for active listening and
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then seeing something in action and and having your own
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experience of it hopefully enhances your ability to
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understand and translate what you're hearing from folks. 100%
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for sure. So you moved agency side first?
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I did. I think that was the easiest way
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to get started as a recruiter with no recruiting experience.
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You know, that contingency agency model always be closing,
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you know, working on probably the more junior positions where
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you only get paid as a firm if you make a placement.
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And so focused heavily on the Bay Area, which I was living in
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at the time. And any company could have been
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a client, whether they had research associate scientists or
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even, you know, manager level positions, mostly in the
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research side from biology, PK, chemistry, you know, toxicology,
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pharmacology, the breadth there. I think you know, again, if kind
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of the the themes of my personality are always I like to
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be involved in as many diverse things as possible.
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I think the agency model, contingency model limited the
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kinds of positions that clients would call out to us.
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And so from there I ended up going to boutique search firms
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that really worked on more retaining as well as research
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and mapping work. And so that got me the chance to
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go director and above and to work with I would say larger
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pharma companies wanting a more hands on intensive support from
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anybody they, you know contracted with on search.
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And that was great. And I think I again, ultimately
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built out that relationship network and helped it grow into
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pharma beyond those small biotech companies that may have
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had one or two positions. And it was while doing that,
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that one of the clients of the boutique search firm that I was
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supporting asked me to come on site for one to two days a week
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and spend more time with their hiring managers as they were
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doing a a big build. And so I had a little bit of the
7:14
best of both worlds, you know, doing search for any client
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that, you know, was interested in our model, but then going
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back and being inside a company and working directly with those
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firing managers and those leaders in those HR
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organizations. And it wasn't long before I
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remembered my love of being surrounded by more people that
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were different than me than being surrounded by just a bunch
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of people like me. And that's when I moved back
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into the operating side and focused on talent acquisition
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within biotechs. And I, you know, went through
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probably many years at a variety of biotech companies as a, you
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know, staffing consultant or TA leader and ultimately was really
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enjoying that degree of focus and impact in an organization's
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growth and. And that's how you came to Gene
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and Tech and then. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I mean in the, you know, Bay Area at that time, I started off
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with a few of the clients that had been of the boutique firm
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and then eventually got an offer to join Amgen and that was when
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Amgen had acquired to Lauric and it was building out its South
8:52
San Francisco presence. That time in Amgen, I ended up
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supporting all four R&D sites for PKDM and regulatory as well
9:03
as Amgen South San Francisco. And so I think that network
9:08
visibility hopefully was a part of getting my name recognized as
9:16
a credible recruiter of talent and impactful to the
9:19
organization. And I subsequently got my name
9:25
in for a role at Genentech. I think Genentech was,
9:30
especially at that time, kind of the at the center of what we all
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equated as the best science and the best place to work.
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And so when I got an offer from Genentech, it was like I
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couldn't refuse. And so I joined there, too.
9:46
Yep. Yeah.
9:47
I mean, crazy time to join that business for absolutely.
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I mean, and it was, you know, those of us who worked at
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Genentech during those times are now all across the industry and
10:00
we are all still such great friends.
10:02
But you know, it was a time when Genentech really empowered its
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staffing organization. We had less than a 3% agency
10:14
spend, so they really wanted the talent acquisition group to be
10:20
the engine for identifying and securing and attracting talent.
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We had a sourcing group. We implemented a candidate
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relationship management system. That was the first time
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Salesforce went into a biotech company.
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We changed our applicant tracking system.
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We had these two systems talking to each other.
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So it was kind of a, and this was pre the Roche acquisition,
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it, it was really Genentech being at the forefront of
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innovative talent acquisition strategies.
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We work with the HR organizations and finance.
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And so again, it couldn't have asked for more, you know, more
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of an opportunity to show off what you're capable of.
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And I think back to my desire to be a part of something diverse.
11:19
It really allowed me to integrate.
11:22
Yeah, I mean groundbreaking science, but also groundbreaking
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in terms of back office. But it sounds a bit of yeah,
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sales force some. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I guess that that would have given you your first taste of
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like that, that talent pooling like you mentioned.
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But Biogen took that a little bit further, right?
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Because you were, yeah. I did when we, when I left
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Genentech, it was a hard decision to leave, but it was a
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year after the post the Roche acquisition.
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I, I left more for personal reasons to get back to the East
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Coast. Yeah.
12:04
And so I still definitely wanted to be in organizations that were
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of the caliber that, you know, the Amgen's and Genentech's
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were. And for me, Biogen felt like a
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neuroversion of Genentech in a way.
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And when I joined, there was pretty soon after joining, there
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was a a change in the HR and TA leadership.
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And as a result the TA leader really wanted to revolutionize
12:41
talent acquisition. So I was a part of a three or
12:45
four person team to build a competitive talent landscape
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group, which wasn't necessarily held to any KTIS around how many
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recs at a time and you know, time to fill etcetera, but more
13:02
around that proactive intelligence around talent.
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How do you think about your own internal design and the talent
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requirements of it? How do you determine what is
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best in class for your various phenotypes of leaders?
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What's your succession planning? What are other companies doing?
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And so the whole lens of intelligence and analysis around
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talent, we got that group started and supported after
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presenting to the HR leadership. And not surprisingly, that
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evolved to include an executive search, and so VP on up for
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Biogen was done through that CTL and executive search group.
13:58
Yeah, I guess I can see what you talked about there, how that
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leads into your next roles at Third Rock and now.
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Yeah, yeah. I would love to say that that
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was purposeful and deliberate, but I would instead be more
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honest to say that after having these really pivotal experiences
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at Amgen, Genentech and Biogen, more started to feel familiar
14:28
rather than different. And I didn't want to have my own
14:34
Groundhog Day every day. And so I think my departure from
14:40
operating was more around how do I do what I do in a way that
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still brings something new to the table.
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And so I wasn't sure what that looked like.
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And I, I started having conversations.
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I was having conversations with folks at the Broad.
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There were some Biogen people there.
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Samantha Singer was running the Broad.
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And then I also was connected with people at Third Rock in
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various ways. Many Genentech folks had made it
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into Third Rock companies. And you know, Third Rock at that
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time it was Fund 3 for Third Rock was super busy.
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And so I got to know the recruiters there, and they
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encouraged me to, you know, talk to the partners and meet people.
15:28
And I will tell you the decision I made was based solely on, do I
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enjoy these conversations? And I think I've told many
15:40
candidates this. I laughed in every interview.
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In my third Rock conversations, be it the recruiting director,
15:48
be it an associate, A venture partner or even, you know,
15:52
Marker Bob or Kevin Starr. At the time, I laughed.
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And that felt like a signal I needed to pay attention to.
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And so that was really the impetus around moving into
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Venture. And I'm happy to say it was the
16:07
right intuition. I have thoroughly enjoyed what I
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could never have described as a transition, but it is something
16:20
that continue to to allow me to focus on people and listening to
16:27
what people are really describing for themselves and
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trying to extract that in ways that help make the right
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combinations of people when building young companies.
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I mean, it's hard every time. So that's what brought me to to
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venture. I mean, it sounds like it ticks
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a box of needing to be around a lot of different people all the
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time, right at what you do. Obviously the role at the moment
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for those who don't know, like what your responsibilities are
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like, can you walk us through what your group are responsible
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for? Obviously it's a lot on the New
17:06
Coast side I imagine. And so I made the difficult
17:11
decision to leave Third Rock to join Atlas as the head of
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talent. They had not had a permanent
17:18
head of talent with the phenotype that I brought to the
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table. And so when I got here, it was
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really to create anything more than, you know, what had maybe
17:30
been farmed out through a few different types of solutions in
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the past. So my first steps were creating
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order. You know, what is talent
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management, what is, you know, search?
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Is there an opportunity from the firm side to have an approach
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that's consistent? And I have to air quote around
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consistent because the model at Atlas was and is very different
18:01
than the model at Third Rock as well as other venture models.
18:04
And so learning what is right for Atlas, I had to deconstruct,
18:11
you know, maybe some assumptions I had and instead watch and
18:17
listen and pay attention to what mattered most beyond creating
18:25
order. It was eventually ensuring that
18:29
the relationship knowledge that Atlas has through the years of
18:36
it being in business and the entire wealth of the portfolio
18:41
builds that is done in the past is capitalized on and enhanced.
18:47
And so that could mean supporting C-Suite searches.
18:53
It could mean, you know, interacting with the boards.
18:56
It's definitely being in front of the partners and the
19:00
investment team as they're thinking of funding and creating
19:03
something new and doing that talent brainstorming.
19:09
But there's also a lot of, you know, foundational company
19:15
building practices that these young companies need, which is a
19:20
little different than the support you give to Atlas
19:23
proper. And so I use both parts of my
19:28
personality, the venture talent side, but also the operator
19:31
side. When I'm in touch with these
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young companies as they're getting built, as they're
19:36
thinking about their org design, as they're thinking about
19:39
shaping roles and how to have, you know, title design within
19:46
their organization. So it's turned into a lot of
19:49
advisory work beyond simple execution.
19:53
And I think that that's one of the most impactful things you
19:58
can do historically is ensure that those in decision making
20:03
positions have as much information they need,
20:06
comprehensive historical and trend relevant information so
20:13
that they can, you know, be confident about the decisions
20:17
they need to make going forward. Yeah, sure.
20:20
Interesting point that you mentioned there where how much
20:25
is the talent conversation a thing when the guys are looking
20:30
at investing in a yeah, a founder or a bit of technology?
20:33
Like at what stage are you brought in?
20:36
Is it super really doors I imagine to.
20:38
I think it is a. It is always threaded into the
20:46
disco. Now within the Atlas model, we
20:50
can start something de Novo from an idea we have where there's no
20:54
people involved from the beginning.
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And so then you're really seeking who are the right
20:59
people. But we do evaluate opportunities
21:02
from the outside and and deals that come to us from other, you
21:07
know, VCs or executives that have gotten things started.
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And so there's one of the many things being diligenced is the
21:16
people component. Is there confidence in those
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involved that they can accomplish what would be the
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goal of the potential company and and depending on the amount
21:31
of funding, would Atlas be the lead or not?
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How much would we influence that people piece?
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Because I it, there's not a single place I haven't heard
21:43
this, but you can have AB idea with an A-Team and you will
21:48
accomplish a lot more than an A idea with AB team.
21:52
And so I think we take that seriously.
21:57
And while these aren't decisions I make because the investor or
22:04
the CEO or wherever the talent discussion lies, what I try to
22:10
do again is provide as much comprehensive information.
22:15
And you know, sometimes a perspective that is more subtle
22:23
than the pedigree or the acumen or the particular, you know,
22:28
exit someone had recently. And so talking about the how
22:31
they engage, the type of people, what they're looking for, the
22:36
interactions that they should expect to have on the team and
22:40
what that could mean around team dynamic, Sometimes we forget
22:44
about the human side of it all. You know, people are
22:50
complicated. So we have to figure out how we
22:53
can help people be successful together.
22:56
For sure. I think there's, I don't know,
23:00
sometimes it feels like in the industry that you see a lot of
23:04
teams just who seem to come as part of a package, right, and as
23:09
a new venture and you can sort of predict who's going to join
23:12
to build that up. But it's an in perspective that
23:15
you bring because I guess you're not just looking for those plug
23:19
and play options, but you're looking at actually what's
23:22
what's best out there and what's not necessarily being the
23:26
thought of straight away. So, yeah, interesting.
23:30
I have a few things that I use regularly, but one is that it's
23:34
hard every time. And so, you know, you can have
23:38
teams that work together in the past, if they're doing something
23:41
new, they haven't done what they're doing, it passed.
23:45
And so, you know, there's no one way to predict outcome, but I
23:53
think that in if you encourage people to be transparent about
24:04
their personal and professional individual biases and affinities
24:11
and styles, then we might have a better chance of navigating the
24:17
challenges that always arise. They may not be the exact same,
24:21
but challenges arise no matter what, and handling challenge is
24:26
a skill. And so we need to keep looking
24:29
at ways to support and enhance the skills of people who are
24:34
highly accomplished already. But no matter what, what they
24:39
are doing today is different than what they've done in the
24:42
past. Yeah, for sure.
24:45
Interesting. I guess another question I had,
24:47
it was like, at what point are you guys sort of not letting
24:52
them sail off into the sunset and fend for themselves?
24:55
But like, you know, investors always say that they're here
24:58
throughout the full course of the investment and whatnot, but
25:02
you're obviously involved right at the start.
25:04
How are you building in that sort of ability to take care of
25:07
themselves as as well? Yeah.
25:10
I mean, again, I see it from obviously the talent perspective
25:16
Air, there is a natural evolution that companies go
25:22
through from initial seed funding through the various
25:26
raises of finances and then potentially going public.
25:30
So there's different maturity that happens or a maturation.
25:34
It is understandable that a public company that has matured
25:39
to the stage of going public has an infrastructure that can, you
25:45
know, accomplish more of what needs to be done on its own.
25:49
And so while our public portfolio may not need to rely
25:54
on us as much, we always make sure they're aware that if
25:59
there's any time they want to connect and whatever way they
26:03
might desire support to reach out.
26:08
As example, I have it, not I, Atlas has a few public companies
26:12
and there are times when either that CEO or those chief people
26:18
officers do check in with me. There's going to be a board
26:22
search, there's going to be a different C level search or
26:26
they're talking to someone and they want to know any previous
26:29
history. And so I can brainstorm with
26:31
them. I can think through the various
26:34
discussions that we've had throughout time or because I'm
26:38
always opportunistically talking with people, I can, you know,
26:43
also suggest a different connection based on a
26:47
conversation I recently had. So I would say the public
26:51
companies leverage us as much as is necessary for them and it's
26:59
also style dependent. Not every CEO or chief people
27:03
officer engages in the same way. The youngest companies may be
27:07
the most dependent because they are underbuilt and they don't
27:10
have everybody on board, especially an HR or talent
27:14
person in the beginning. And usually those seeds or young
27:21
companies try to extract as much as they can from their investor
27:26
or the community around them. And so we, we definitely are
27:30
more available. I, you know, hands on probably
27:36
wouldn't be the descriptor I would use because I would say
27:40
Atlas is more of a hands off. We'd like to have adults in the
27:45
roles that are in the companies. But we do turn it into a turn to
27:51
your neighbor and your neighbor in the Atlas world can be anyone
27:56
within Atlas or in the portfolio.
27:58
And we make that, you know, Rolodex available in whatever
28:02
way those entrepreneurs may be interested in.
28:06
So it, it, it does depend a lot on the stage of the company in
28:12
terms of how long it's been underway, how mature those
28:15
executives are in building. But then some folks really enjoy
28:21
having that safe space just to think out loud with, and others,
28:24
you know, good on them that they're off to the races and
28:28
they will check in if and when they need to.
28:31
Yeah. So it's not a case of the
28:33
support fading. It's always there.
28:35
It just changes, right? Yeah.
28:38
Got you. OK.
28:39
Yeah, often nice. Obviously talking about the
28:46
latest stage public companies, you've obviously announced a new
28:50
fund that last month or what are we Yeah, losing track of the
28:57
year already, already it's October.
29:01
What's the theme I guess for for the portfolio generally in terms
29:07
of talent like on the market, it's been a tough year for the
29:11
fuck, but you guys are problem I guess.
29:15
The great thing is Atlas is well positioned to continue doing
29:20
what it's doing. We had announced that new fund a
29:23
couple months ago and that's our, as I call it, our
29:26
reinvestment fund. We also had announced Fund 14
29:32
late last year and that's our initiation fund.
29:35
I think we're aware that many companies need more private
29:40
dollars these days than when it was the heyday, and so we're
29:44
happy to be able to make those decisions on our portfolio in
29:49
case it takes a longer time to reach those inflection points.
29:54
That said, Atlas still really believes in, I would say,
30:00
capital efficiency and rigor around that, not just in how we
30:04
raise our funds, but how we deploy it.
30:08
I would say the external audience, talent audience is
30:15
it's more of an employer's market right now than the
30:17
employee market. There's more talent available
30:21
and venture is being as rigorous as it needs to be in terms of
30:26
what it funds. And so most companies I see are
30:30
growing more slowly and trying to run as lean as they can,
30:35
which is a fine edge between underbuilt.
30:41
And so I try my best to keep external talent aware of our
30:49
progressing portfolio knowing that it's still not going to be
30:54
as active as it was in, you know, 2019, 20 and 21.
31:00
Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that actually, because I was
31:02
going to say you, you started in 2019 and then a couple of years
31:06
after that were absolutely craziness in the market.
31:09
I mean, these days it seems like the, I don't know, the the days
31:14
of, you know, huge team builds are pretty much in the rear view
31:18
mirror. Yeah, all picky.
31:23
Yeah, for sure. I think you know, again, those
31:30
that are building larger organizations typically have the
31:35
pipeline and the stage of programs to support that as well
31:40
as the capital. Now is that when they're still
31:43
private or if only when they're public, it will all, it all
31:48
needs to be supported by the amount of work the company's
31:53
doing. And so I do think that there is
31:57
pressure on these organizations to be very diligent on that
32:04
resource planning and to try to do as much as they can with as
32:10
few as they can. But growth is necessary, and
32:17
there is a lot of data and information that helps them
32:20
figure out what kind of growth they should propose as they move
32:27
forward. In the beginning, you don't
32:32
really have the need for a full C-Suite.
32:36
You know more than three. It just depends on how quickly
32:41
your science unfolds. And is your company a broad
32:45
platform? Will there be multiple programs
32:48
and an entire pipeline? You, you kind of look at what
32:52
kind of company are you going to be and that might give you a
32:57
little bit more insight into the amount of growth you should plan
33:02
for. Yeah, for sure.
33:05
I've been a question on that because I mean, we've built it
33:08
fairly recently. That's that's where I came in of
33:10
ethics to build on the fractional side.
33:12
I think you mentioned there you don't need a full C-Suite
33:16
straight away, but I don't know whether it's just heightened
33:19
awareness from our perspective, but it the word fractional seems
33:22
to be a lot more common than it was like 5-10 years ago even.
33:28
Yep, I think on that. I love words and I think that
33:37
they can sometimes Orient you as well as maybe confine you.
33:45
There are many instances these days, and I agree, where
33:49
companies recognize the need for an acumen, but yet not
33:54
necessarily a full time need. And so how do they solve that?
33:58
What format, consultant, advisor, what not fractional
34:03
interim, You know, there are so many solutions and we can use
34:08
different language to describe them.
34:11
But I do believe companies are trying to be creative so that
34:16
they can get the input that they need even if headcount is
34:22
constrained. Luckily in the Atlas ecosystem,
34:27
we have a large portfolio. We have entrepreneurs and
34:31
residents and venture partners. And so sometimes it's pretty
34:35
easy to find solutions that are bridges for these companies.
34:42
But again, what's right for one company may not be right for the
34:45
other. So I think each one is figuring
34:49
out how to move forward. But I have seen an uptick on
34:54
that interim or fractional support from a various, you
34:59
know, be it finance, clinical, HR, etcetera.
35:04
Yeah, it's an interesting point. Like when you decide to take
35:08
those in house because like, we've seen with partners before,
35:14
but yeah, they've hired fractional experts dotted around
35:18
around the country, really. I mean, over here in Europe as
35:21
well. And yeah, when they come to
35:24
bring that in house, like they realized that culture building
35:28
is a massive thing in biotech, right?
35:29
But yeah, leadership dotted around the country who'd see
35:33
each other maybe 3-4 times a year, pretty hard to build.
35:38
So actually building it in early, it does have that benefit
35:42
I guess. I do think there are.
35:45
You're pointing out that a company's organizational design
35:51
will have implications in how leaders need to comport business
36:00
in order to ensure cohesiveness, integration, culture.
36:07
Co localizing takes one of those variables of, you know,
36:13
potential inconsistency off the table.
36:17
But even Co localized companies still have to figure out how to
36:22
create sustain culture. And I think you know, culture or
36:29
identity or you know values. The North Stars aren't
36:35
determined solely by location. They have to be lived in the
36:40
day-to-day and threaded through your organization in ways that
36:44
you know leaders top down show to their employees.
36:51
Absolutely not for sure. I mean, I'm putting you on the
36:54
spot here, Andrea a little bit as well.
36:56
So, yeah, I was just going to ask because obviously like,
37:04
yeah, you're in this day in day out, you're speaking to so many
37:08
people like you're pretty up to date with what's going on in the
37:12
market, right, and the current trends.
37:15
But where do you see any big changes in how we do Tai guess
37:20
in, in the next sort of five to 10 years out?
37:23
How do you see this going? Well, I, you know, I love this
37:27
question, but not because I love answering it.
37:32
I, there's part of me that really believes, you know, TA is
37:36
not rocket science. You know, relationships are
37:39
relationships. And so you always need to put
37:44
effort into the real interaction, the authentic
37:48
connection with people. Now, are there tools, AI,
37:53
machine learning, ChatGPT that can enhance the speed at which
37:59
you have information and communication?
38:03
Because there are only 24 hours in a day.
38:05
And so that limits the amount that one can do.
38:09
I do think that TA search is likely going to be technology
38:20
enabled more and more and how that factors into, you know,
38:27
narrowing in on acumen or accomplishments or particulars
38:32
of skills that you're looking for when you're doing TA, it
38:36
would definitely be helpful. But as much as that is the case,
38:42
it's not the, you know, it's not the one dimension of your CD
38:47
that ultimately determines whether or not you're successful
38:51
in a in a position. So I do think that the human
38:55
quality component can never be, you know, done solely by
39:02
technology. And so I'm of two minds there,
39:07
but. Yeah, for sure.
39:09
I there's an, another part in some conversations I've heard
39:13
recently from different talks even at our retreat from
39:18
executives outside of the portfolio is that we are
39:23
entering a, a time when innovation is happening faster
39:28
and faster and and technology and is there to support and
39:33
enhance and we have to do things differently to be more
39:40
integrated. It takes all of us to succeed,
39:44
and so finding a way from our, you know, insular ecosystems to
39:53
actually collaborate and connect so that all parties succeed is
39:58
something that I think talent will be a part of, but it's
40:02
likely going to be driven by the needs of the business and the
40:06
businesses as a global health. Awareness is is amplified.
40:13
Yeah, not for sure. You guys are building some form
40:17
of AI tools in I assume already as as most Yeah, I.
40:21
Mean So within Atlas, I think everyone has been using AI and
40:27
ChatGPT tools individually. Now I'm aware of some of our
40:33
portfolio companies have enterprise solutions that are
40:36
just tailored for them. I think Atlas is thinking about
40:39
that as well for itself just so we can have a secure platform
40:44
that is Atlas specific. My guess is the tools available
40:51
are likely under leveraged at Atlas at this point.
40:56
But we have different functions. What the investment team does is
41:00
different than what I do is different than what finance does
41:03
etcetera. So that's OK and hopefully will
41:06
it is it? I think we're in a similar
41:10
position, honestly speaking. I think similar to yourself
41:13
would believe that, yeah, the human element of networking is
41:17
what will keep us in business essentially.
41:21
So maybe we've been slow on the uptake a little bit as well
41:25
aside from new day-to-day productivity gains that you can
41:29
make from it. But yeah, it's an interesting
41:31
topic for sure. Cool, awesome, very good.
41:35
Well, interesting note to end on for sure.
41:38
I'm sure, and I'll be paying attention to the rest of your
41:42
podcasts that talk about that and trying to extract all the
41:45
little knowledge that I can so. Yeah.
41:49
We've got some interesting guests coming on in relation to
41:51
that actually. So if you post up those, but
41:55
it's been a pleasure to have you on, really appreciate.
41:57
It my pleasure too and again thank you for the invitation.
42:01
I I have enjoyed the conversation.
42:03
Hope it's interesting to folks who listen and more importantly,
42:09
keep doing the good work. Yeah, awesome.
42:12
Thank you very much, Andy. Appreciate it.
42:14
Talk soon.