Latest / Gladden Longevity Podcast / Navigating Longevity and Finance - Episode 284

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Navigating Longevity and Finance - Episode 284 · Gladden Longevity Podcast

0:00
Welcome everybody to this edition of the Glide Longevity Podcast.
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I'm your host, Dr.
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Jeffrey Gladden.
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And today I'm here with financier, Kevin Gray.
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ah Kevin, welcome to the podcast.
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Well, thanks for having me.
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It's good to be here.
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I'm looking forward to conversation.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So Kevin, you're personally very interested in longevity and you work in the financial services world.
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um What do you what do you update us on your thoughts about ah some of the implications of longevity?
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Maybe we'll start there.
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Kind of paint a little picture for us when you dive in from there.
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Absolutely.
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you know, I do find a lot of the intersection when we're creating the longevity, not only for your health, but, know, in my business, it's for the wealth.
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So for our clients, just making sure the length of the portfolio goes along with you.
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You know, used to we would plan for the age of expectancy of death.
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And that was it.
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You know, when you're talking about the 80s, that's not very long.
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Now, when you're talking about even referring to your book, 100 is the new 30.
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When you're going to 100, I mean, that's a lot.
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And that where you're considering inflation.
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that changes the game quite a bit.
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So you're looking for the longevity in your portfolio dramatically.
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But what we're finding is it's not just the size of your portfolio that matters.
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It's how do you access it?
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When, when's the right time to access it?
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And it can provide you the cashflow.
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So not only for you, for your family and long-term, but for health, for me, you know, having kids at, you know, 15 and almost 14 in my fifties, you know, I've got to keep up
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with them.
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So when I come to somebody like you to say, well, how do I make sure that one I'm still around and I need to review where I'm at?
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we find that the same thing in the portfolio.
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we find pitfalls in the portfolio and how do you make that longevity happen?
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You know, it's an interesting concept, idea of deconstructing the situation, right?
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I mean, one of the things that we excel at here medically is em deconstructing across the five different circles, right?
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Life, energy, longevity, health, performance, and then the environments we reside in.
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And in essence, there's a parallel process that has to go on of deconstructing the financial resources to support the
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the exponential return that comes from investing in those five circles on the health side, let's call it.
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There's an exponential return there and you've got to match that with exponential returns, so to speak, on the financial portfolio side.
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So when you think about that, um you know, I'm not a financial planner, but uh actually my father was, but um that doesn't qualify me in any way.
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But you you talk about younger people taking more risk and older people taking more conservative investments.
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I don't know if that's right.
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And I don't know if that's really right.
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Really.
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Yeah.
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Part of the mix anymore, because you're not just going to you're not just going to glide out.
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Right.
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So talk a little bit about that.
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that's a great specific question because we spend a lot of time separating out your risk capacity versus your risk tolerance.
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And what you're referring to is truly your risk capacity.
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If you're young, you've got great income, you've got a long time horizon, your risk capacity is huge.
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But I will say one of my most conservative clients is pretty young.
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And so the risk capacity is high, but the risk tolerance is quite low.
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That's right.
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opposite, one of my oldest clients is my most aggressive client by far.
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And the risk capacity may be low, but your risk tolerance may be very, very high.
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So when you're going through, I mean, we're today's April 24th.
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So we've got lots of volatility, especially last few weeks.
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And when I'm speaking to my clients, you know, maybe your risk capacity, you're going to weather the storm because you've got the right portfolio, but it's very, very
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uncomfortable.
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So there's two separations now.
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So you can't,
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and should not invest your portfolio just based on where you are in life.
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That has some guidance, of course, but your risk tolerance really guides us along in, how do we put the pieces of the pie together in the portfolio?
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So it's not just equities and fixed income, but what are the right things and liquidity, liquidity comes into factor.
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But I think just hitting on what you talked about,
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between the risk capacity and risk tolerance is a much different story than what we would talked about 20, 30 years ago.
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Yeah, I think that's, that's an interesting point.
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And it sounds like, um, risk tolerance really sort of trumps risk capacity, if you will.
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Right.
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So that ultimately somebody's got to feel safe, right?
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They've got to have a sense of safety.
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And that's really what you're trying to provide.
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That's what we're trying to do is give them confidence and safety in their health.
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And you're trying to do the same thing for their financial resources.
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Right.
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So very parallel paths here.
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And then obviously they dovetail and, um,
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Since a lot of what we do is not covered by insurance, building in capacity, financial capacity to be able to do the things that are required to maintain that youthfulness and
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health.
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You know, we sort of feel like that there's a massive return on investment for that, right?
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Because if you can continue working another 20 years and you didn't retire, I oh my gosh, you know, if it, it costs you X number of dollars, you're going to pay that back a
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thousand times over.
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Right.
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So.
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It's a really interesting thing.
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So what do you see as...
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Let's take yourself for example.
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So as you think about yourself, you're in your 50s, you've got younger children, relatively speaking, how are you positioning yourself to live to 100 and beyond kind of
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thing?
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How are you actually framing that up for yourself?
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Yeah, so health wise, mean, the first thing, the interesting one, it wasn't my heart, it wasn't my lungs, but what I didn't know until coming to somebody like you and your team is
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it's the lining of my arteries that I've not need to improve on.
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I would have never known that I would have never done that if unless I had a very specific check in.
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And the other interesting thing is just, you know, as we do the gut test, it's what was it avocados, onions and cherries that cause inflammation on me personally.
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I've eaten those for over 50 years and never knew that the inflation was being caused.
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And how do we reduce that?
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So beyond that, you know, recognizing that eating right and working out, of course, are the easy two pillars, but what are the other things adding the right supplements to it?
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So it was the full package of now I work out more, but now I work out not just weight training, you know, as a typical guy, it's like, I'll just go lift weights and I'll be
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fine.
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It's more cardio.
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How do you get the heart healthy?
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How do you get the arteries healthy?
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So that was my first aspect.
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I continue to plateau in my life, you know, when I'm interacting with my 15 year old, it's full of testosterone is almost about the size of me.
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You know, I've got to step up my game to keep going for that longevity and for the family.
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So that was where I personally had to come from and recognizing, gosh, what else can I possibly do?
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Cause frankly, I got to be here a while.
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And as you think about that, and I appreciate you sharing some of the things that we picked up, ah there are certainly other things that we look at as well.
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But as you think about that, has it shifted your own sense of how you're planning your finances going forward?
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You know, it has and some of the other topics because again, the portfolio is only a piece of it.
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So one of your biggest bills in the portfolio is taxes.
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So tax planning is huge.
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So now we focus a lot more on taxes when you hit the higher tax brackets.
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How can you avoid some of those in planning the right way and taking the income the right way, whether you, you own a business and you're a business owner or you're an executive or
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you're just a real estate professional.
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So how are you taking your money in the right way for taxes?
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But the other one that's more interesting, I feel like most of our conversations in that longevity is your estate plan or planning of some sort long-term, whether it's for you,
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whether it's for the family and having the right situation for you, whether it's trust, whether it's partnerships.
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So I believe outside of just the portfolio, I'm an aggressive investor because I understand the market.
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I'll go, I'll look at crypto.
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I will look at private investments.
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I will look at interesting and more.
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aggressive items because one, I'm an aggressive investor and I've got some risk capacity along with that.
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But I also do have small kids and I need to provide income for a long time for us in retirement as well.
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So as that frames and I kind of revisit what's me, it's building the team for that matter.
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I mean, I think it's really just building the team all around.
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Let me interrupt you on that point for a second.
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So has it reframed your concept of retirement?
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Because the way that I reframe it for myself is that, you know, I did cardiology for 25 years and I quote unquote retired from cardiology.
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But really what I did was I transitioned into the next phase of what I'm passionate about, where I feel like my gifts lie and from a loving place where I can create joy, not only
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for the clients I serve, but
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you know, for myself at the same time simultaneously.
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So this concept of retirement, um you know, it sort of sticks out there like a hurdle.
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Like we have to kind of somehow plan for what happens prior and after.
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Like it's a waterfall moment.
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And yet I tend to think of it um that I'll probably never retire.
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I'll never retire in the sense of never be involved.
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And for me, I will...
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continue to do what I'm doing or transitioned into other elements or whatever it is, but there's this ongoing desire to stay engaged.
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for me, that provides meaning and purpose also, right?
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And I think that if we're going to live a long time, I think having meaning and purpose and then aligning our activities along that meaning and purpose, and it could be
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philanthropic for all that matter, if that's the position you're in.
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But for other people that aren't at a place where it can be purely philanthropic, ah maybe they rethink it in terms of, oh well, I've always wanted to do this.
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Now, how do I make a living at that while I allow these assets to grow?
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So I don't know if you're thinking about that with your clients or whatever.
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is because lots of experience.
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I've taken so many clients to that retirement point.
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uh one, if you build this nest egg and you at some point, some clients get afraid of touching that nest egg.
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It's a baby.
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Now you've grown the baby and now you're afraid to touch the baby in retirement.
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But it becomes this, as you said, the waterfall, the magic moment that you hit retire and then you're done.
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So I'll talk about me in a second.
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But in relation to my clients, I've seen it go many different directions.
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You hit retirement.
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you really put it on pause or you really go uh lethargic essentially where you're not doing anything.
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Well, goodness, people pass away pretty quick at that point.
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And we see it all the time is if you don't keep busy and keep entertained, keep keep pressing along, things don't go well if you don't keep your mind going.
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And so you're right, as we now have longevity, I agree.
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I think retirement has changed dramatically.
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So as
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me going from a uh wire house and being essentially an employee to a business owner, you know, my eyes have changed dramatically.
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I truly think if I'm not doing this in 30 years, I am doing something.
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So I don't agree.
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I don't think that it, you have to, uh, you have to continue to engage.
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And I think that goes along with the longevity and just creating that you can, you don't come to a point where you just come to a stop and go sit on the couch and start watching
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TV.
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That's not going to work well.
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No, it's not going to work well from a health perspective to your point as well, which is interesting.
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People that retire, they have a much shorter life expectancy than people that stay aged.
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Right.
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So yeah, I think, I think that people that look forward to retirement are the people that are quote unquote, working in a job that they don't really enjoy.
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Right.
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think that retirement is held is sort of held out as, my God, it's the promised land.
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It's the Holy grail.
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I'm going to finally not have to wake up and go do this thing that I really don't like.
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So I think one of the key things in life as you're thinking about this and in this conference room I'm in right here at Gladden Longevity, we've had people sell companies,
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change jobs, do all kinds of things because they're not really aligned with what they're doing.
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And we can figure that out through some of the testing we do and the conversations we have.
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And it's not even conducive to their current health.
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let alone this concept of, I'll tolerate this until I retire and then it'll be okay.
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Because that's another, that's kind of a lose lose scenario as opposed to a continual winning scenario of always doing what you're passionate and drawn to do.
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So yeah.
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Yeah, and I think me personally, so when I'm successful as an employee somewhere else, I really became a salesperson.
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I'm selling products and I'm trying to squeeze that in and build something for a client.
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And one of the thing that's now absolutely fulfilling is I understand my clients dramatically.
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I have an actual relationship and we go find solutions.
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So it's now it's like, let me sit on the same time, same side of the table as you and go figure out what you need.
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And a lot of our clients don't even know what the solution or what the long-term plan even looks like in their mind yet.
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But we've now done this so long.
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I can share the expertise of the other clients that have done it well and say, this may be a great path and this is what you could look forward to or you rule that one out.
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But now for me personally to stay engaged, the world's changed for me.
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I'm a business owner.
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I get to do now what I think is right for clients long-term.
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rather than I've got a few things that I can put on your table.
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Yeah, exactly.
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So that's for you, that's much more intellectually stimulating.
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It's also more personally satisfying, right?
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And I think those are the keys.
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You know, one of the, well, before I get to that, let me ask you this.
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So as you do that, um intuitively, what I'm thinking is I'm going to continue to work, continue to have income from the work that I do.
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And I'm going to continue to invest in things personally that I understand or
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are connected to or have some insight about or something like that and continue to grow wealth, if you will, through those channels.
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um And that I'm thinking is going to be the answer.
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um That being said, there are two big things that pop in.
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One is the evaluation of the currency.
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mean, all fiat currencies are...
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We're at a moment of transit, massive transition here, I think, from in all of this.
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I think fiat currencies are being phased out and the dollar is going to be devalued and all these other things.
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Right.
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So that's one big thing.
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The other thing is that AI is coming along and it's going to actually replace a lot of people.
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And I think, you know, I don't know if you have super AI, super intelligent, not just,
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Equal to humans, uh AI, but if you have super intelligent AI, not just AGI, um I don't know how many jobs actually get left, right?
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I think it's really going to come down to people that are creating.
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um I think AI is going to be able to create equally well, if not better.
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So I think even in the creation, you're going to end up teaming up with AI to do the work that you do.
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Right?
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So I think people will.
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team up with AI to do that.
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Why not?
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um If you've got a great assistant or a great colleague, why not team up?
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um But it is going to change reality for a lot of people in terms of job and work and things like that too.
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And I don't know, I don't know if you've been trying to crystal ball that in any way to kind of figure out, okay, well, how do I take care of people if their jobs go away or if,
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or if they, you know, I mean, I almost see that you're almost in a job counseling job as much as you are.
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Counselors have my job for sure.
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Whether it's today's market or whether it's long-term, but yeah, counseling is absolutely there.
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So you were talking a minute ago about, building your wealth for retirement and a lot of people say, you know,
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my wealth, building my wealth in general, because there is no retirement for me, right?
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right.
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And some folks will refer it to as, you know, mailbox money.
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You know, how do I create a denuity stream?
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And I just have that income for long, long term as well.
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And that's a lot of, know, whether it's real estate, whether it's a portfolio of just straight investments.
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But again, of course, invest in what you know, and understand, of course, as you specifically mentioned.
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But yeah, we do have those conversations, we have to plan for the worst.
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What happens if
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All of these things happen.
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One, you make sure to have the liquidity for paying your expenses, but making sure that the money lasts longterm.
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And now that we're of course talking about the longevity and now your, your health span is longer.
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So your wealth span has to go along with that.
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So again, I think more about what is that income flow tied to the wealth.
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You have to have longterm wealth overall, but I also have to tie it to that risk tolerance.
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So let's,
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let's take the right amount of risk to get there as well.
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You can go off the charts, but you're going to ride the roller coaster to get there as well.
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Yes, long-term over a 10 year period.
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Yes, you should come out of head, but it may be more uncomfortable.
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But as you build that annuity stream or you pay that, you know, have an mailbox money later or it's either income now or income later.
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That's really what you're trying to build.
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Mm-hmm.
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we do have to plan for the worst.
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People will change, people will turn in businesses, people will take a risk and take their whole fortune and try to go start something new.
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Maybe that's not appropriate, but at least set something aside for protection.
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That's just considered risk management.
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So you got to consider risk management associated with it.
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absolutely.
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think that's a key factor.
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If you're playing a game and you can certainly gamify this, then it's going to be, how much risk am I going to take?
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What's my capacity for risk?
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what's my capacity?
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We all know we have an infinite capacity for gain, but we have a very finite capacity for loss, both psychologically and also financially, if you will.
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You've got to really, really, think one of the best ways to think about this is to start with the downsides, right?
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What's, what's my capacity to lose here?
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Right.
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And, and what's my, um, what's my capacity to psychologically tolerate that loss?
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Right.
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So numbers on a page, that's fine.
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It's I can lose 10 % and I'm fine, but psychologically can I deal with that?
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Right.
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So yeah.
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Yeah, and we specifically hit that.
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So we just recorded our quarterly outlook yesterday.
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And one of the things we hit on, we talk about a normal volatility.
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So whether you're an aggressive investor down the middle of the road or a super conservative investor, there's a difference in your targeted volatility, meaning how much
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are you expected to swing in your portfolio?
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However, recently we've had to focus on what's that hundred year flood look like when things go, when things happen, when we have
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when we have a COVID hit, when we have a terror for when we have a recession of some sort, knowing that this may happen only once every hundred years, but this could happen.
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This absolutely could happen.
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Now, if you think long-term, yes, we should overcome that.
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And then we can actually measure what's that hole, how long does it take to dig out of that hole?
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But we truly have to focus on that because many clients or just about anybody, when things are great, you don't think about the bad times.
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But when things are bad, it's like, how do you manage that risk to the downside?
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You do that ahead of time.
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You don't do that while you're in the in the moment.
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That's right.
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My thought about that is, you know, I've gotten to a point in my life, my personal life where I have no sense of failure on any front.
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um I'm never failing.
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I'm only learning.
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I'm only growing.
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I'm only getting better.
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Right.
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And so when you think about it in terms of financial things, what I see is when the markets take a turn, let's just call the markets, you know, globally across all the
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different investment opportunities.
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You know, when those, when those turn south,
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my gosh, what a great opportunity because it's not going to stay South forever.
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It's going to, it's going to climb back to the North or whatever direction want to call it, but it's going to go back up.
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Right.
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And so when I see things cratering, I'm like, my gosh, what an amazing opportunity.
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Right.
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And sometimes when, when things are going really well, it's like, what an amazing opportunity to take some marbles off the table so that I'm in a position.
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mean, I think Warren Buffett does this really well.
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Right?
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Like he sold a bunch of stuff early in the year, Apple and a bunch of his other stuff.
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Everybody saw that.
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think that paid any attention and he was sitting on like, I don't know, $350 billion in cash or $320 billion in cash, something like that, waiting for this to happen.
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Right?
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So that he could, and I don't know if he swooped back in yet or not, but, waiting for this to happen at the same time that despite economic trends, there are technological advances.
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that continue regardless of social, world wars, depressions, recessions.
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There's technology that continues to march forward unabated, quite honestly unabated.
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And so there's some certainly some trends here in AI, quantum computing, things like that, that are clearly continuing to march forward and at a very rapid rate.
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And I think when you have markets that are cratering and you have technologies that are clear winners over the
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long term.
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my gosh, what an incredible opportunity, right?
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So that's how I look at it.
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I don't know.
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You know, I absolutely this and it's interesting just because of the last few weeks of the conversations.
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It's like the what side of the fence are you on?
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And I that's most of my questions right now is like, where is the opportunity?
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It is the right way to think about it.
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If you think of the long term and the markets to recover and when we zoom out and we take it back to World War Two or even the Great Depression much long ago, it continually go for
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it.
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It's amazing how it looks.
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The dips look very, very small when you zoom out.
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It feels very uncomfortable while you're in it.
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So we have to recognize that, of course.
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So what we do, and then you plan for that.
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So you look at that risk and yes, if you continue to think everything will be positive eventually, yeah, this is absolutely a buying opportunity.
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So whether it's domestic equities or international equities, that's interesting.
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The other one to warn about though is private investments also come up.
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Those can go to zero.
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everything could go to zero, but that one is, and you know, there's groups that we're involved in and we see opportunities and it's, you're pinpointed towards one company, the
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company may not work.
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That's a risk that you take, but you're also looking for that giant reward.
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But in perspective of the general market, yes, uh having that positive outlook, uh everything is truly on sale.
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Now, if you look in history, you can actually see on paper, the most money is made when it's a pessimistic environment.
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Exactly.
23:15
when you were saying when Warren Buffett and you know, he sells out when he's at the top creating dry power for when there's opera dry powder, when there's opportunities that
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there's not as much money, uh, you know, when the market's going great and then you dump a bunch of money into the market when it's already going great, it's already showing that
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you don't get a greatest return and compared to when it's a pessimistic, when we're more at the bottom somewhat kind of, you know, where we are now floundering around.
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Yeah, that's right.
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And this is where the whole concept of dollar cost averaging comes in, right?
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If people are like every month shipping away at it, right?
23:47
They uh sort of been a better position.
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Although it's, uh you know, everybody sort of tries to time the markets in their own way, right?
23:56
More than dollar cost averaging, although he's dollar cost averaging according to his uh perceptions, right?
24:03
So, but I think
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I relate to market timing is emotional trading and that I try to avoid it at all costs.
24:11
That's a lot of the conversations, but, market timing does get tough cause we can also show it.
24:16
If you miss just the five best days of an up market, that you give up a third of the return.
24:23
If you just go to the sideline and say, I can't hold it, I'm just going to wait until things get better.
24:27
If you miss that, market timing doesn't necessarily work.
24:31
Mm hmm.
24:32
Yeah.
24:33
it's tricky.
24:34
It's very tricky.
24:35
So in all of this, are you now starting to actually remove retirement from your lexicon?
24:43
Are you actually starting to talk about as you transition into the next phase of your life?
24:48
And let's think about how you maintain meaning, purpose, uh engagement, have revenue that comes to you from that while your portfolio continues to, you know, offset other things or
25:00
whatever else.
25:00
that is
25:02
It is.
25:02
So I still have to relate it.
25:03
It's more of a newer concept.
25:05
So, but to relate it because everybody truly just builds up in their head this retirement mental.
25:11
What the rate, I guess the way we would list it as is really the option to retire.
25:15
So it's now your option to switch to something else of your next phase.
25:19
But that is most of our conversation now.
25:21
Yes.
25:22
So even if you're selling a business, you have a liquidity event.
25:25
I have seen where a lot are so nervous to take that chunk of money.
25:29
They don't know what to do with it.
25:30
So they go buy another business and then try to run it and then doesn't always go as well.
25:35
So there is this trends.
25:37
It's an absolute transition.
25:38
All of your income came from one pocket.
25:41
And now what do you do with that?
25:43
So we talk about this is the way to transition.
25:46
You've got the team associated with that.
25:48
And now you kind of ease into your next phase.
25:51
So it is just to answer, you know, your question of
25:54
that retirement, yes, it goes away because I think more and more clients, people are similar to what you and I are talking about.
26:02
That retirement mentality is going away.
26:04
I plan to do something essentially forever just to stay engaged, but it becomes that option to say, all right, if I just don't go to work every day, am I still going to get
26:13
the right paycheck?
26:14
And that's what we do.
26:15
We create the paycheck out of a uh portfolio going through your next phase to allow you to either create income somewhere else.
26:23
Um, or, or not at all.
26:25
And you're enjoying, and maybe it is philanthropic is where you're spending your time.
26:30
There's maybe not any income associated with that, but you're providing something good and engaging yourself.
26:37
Yeah, I think that's right.
26:38
I think the other thing that happens in some of these transitions is that, you know, there's this concept of people have a bucket list, right?
26:45
Of things they, they want, they always wanted to do, right?
26:48
It's like, I want to go to Bali.
26:49
I want to go to, you know, on the Great Wall or whatever it is.
26:52
Right.
26:52
And so, um, I think in these transitions, even though you're transitioning into something else that has, let's call it work activity associated with it.
27:04
It's possible to architect that transition in a way where you have more free time.
27:09
Like when we talk about retirement going away, it doesn't mean you, you can't sort of get to your bucket list things or spend more time with your grandkids or great grandkids or
27:18
kids or whatever it is.
27:19
It's just architecting in a different way where you stay engaged, satisfied, fill a sense of purpose, accomplishment, things that humans need to feel.
27:27
Um, and yet you still, you, you, kind of, I think as you go through life,
27:34
uh You start to actually be able to implement more work-life balance, which is something that everybody talks about, but very few people actually accomplish.
27:42
ah And even if you sell your company, you're out of balance because now there's no work and you're just hanging around, right?
27:49
So it's truly work-life balance.
27:52
And I think maybe in one sense, retirement is replaced by transitioning into a better state of work-life balance, something like that.
28:01
Yeah.
28:02
Well, see most of my, uh, the clients that are doing even better in retirement, they are definitely busier.
28:08
So whether it's philanthropic or you're back to, you know, interacting with your school or you're teaching as a professor, you're giving back because you've had this expertise or
28:17
maybe it's just family for a while.
28:18
Maybe your kids are having, now you've got the grandkids and you get to spend a tremendous time, amount of time working with them because you know, you, most of your work life, you
28:27
know, you weren't spending as much time with your own kids.
28:30
So I see it across the board, but my interactions, I do find most of my clients, once they retire, get busier than when they were working because they're actually more fulfilled
28:39
because they're doing actually what they want.
28:40
They're not having to get up, get dressed, go to work, do what they have to, to put food on the table.
28:45
Rather now it's like, I get to get up because I get to go do all of these new things now.
28:49
But that's where it becomes successful.
28:51
And you can see it physically on their face interacting, uh, whether they're traveling more, whether they're, you know, providing a better.
28:59
not feedback, but providing back to the community in some form or fashion.
29:04
You know, one of the things that comes up for us is um paying for longevity services since they're not covered by quote unquote insurance.
29:12
uh There's a way to do that with pre-tax money.
29:16
And I think as you structure as a financial person, that you help people structure their lives, so to speak, and you talk about, you know, um working the tax code in people's
29:29
favor.
29:30
Is that something that you're actively doing?
29:33
We work with an attorney slash CPA that is quite expert at helping people set up the right structures to be able to legitimately, you know, through a legitimate business, um,
29:45
deductions and things like that, that can help defray the costs.
29:48
And if you're in a 40 % bracket or a 30 % bracket is just whatever the cost is to work with us is just 40 % cheaper.
29:55
Right.
29:56
So is that a piece of what you're thinking too?
29:59
Because.
29:59
People are going to need to plan for healthcare as opposed to sick care, right?
30:04
So they have sick insurance, they've got Medicare, they've got whatever they've got, co-insurances, but they also need to be planning for healthcare if they're truly going to
30:12
maintain their vitality because that's not coming free.
30:15
And so there has to be this sense of, what's the return on investment for those dollars I'm going to spend every year also.
30:20
So I don't know if that's something you're taking in and looking at with your people.
30:24
What's the equation?
30:25
And that brings up a couple of another good point, cause I'm going to come back to asset location.
30:29
Where do you keep your assets?
30:31
Um, and how do you manage your tax bracket?
30:33
But yes, we spend a lot of time on the tax planning aspect before it was, well, I've got a mortgage and that was essential.
30:39
My only write-off.
30:40
Well, there's a whole lot more that you can do that, especially if you have a legitimate business and you're creating that, maybe you're doing some consulting.
30:47
So you're creating true income and you've got your own business, whatever that might be.
30:52
lots of things as an S corp or however you set it up correctly are, are pre-tax.
30:58
So you're writing them off as expenses and everything essentially becomes a little bit cheaper just because you're saving on those taxes.
31:06
And that's, and it ties into just the portfolio itself.
31:09
So you don't put it all into just a normal brokerage account to, because everything's taxed in one particular way.
31:15
Maybe you've got a traditional or a Roth IRA.
31:19
or maybe you're doing some other type of insurance product with tax-free loans.
31:23
similar to what you're talking about, setting it up under a business is where do you actually hold your assets when you're taking that income later, managing your own tax
31:32
bracket, because there is a way to do that.
31:34
And just like setting up your business that ties in very closely because that can hold your assets too.
31:40
So if you had a partnership or a trust or anything, just even here in the state of Texas, there's a lot of opportunity of
31:47
managing it the right way, whether it's protection, whether it's tax avoidance across the board, but you get to write off those expenses, as you say, especially through that
31:55
business.
31:56
do want to spend a lot of time focusing on that because that again, that's your biggest bill long term is taxes.
32:02
Yeah.
32:02
Yeah, exactly.
32:03
Yeah.
32:04
I spent a few years in Puerto Rico, uh, and then moved back because of opportunities back here.
32:11
But, there's, you know, Puerto Rico is an opportunity.
32:16
Of course you got to be there six months or other places, you know, there a of places where you don't have to have such a high residency thing.
32:21
It's a little tricky, in terms of the U S tax code and some stuff like that.
32:26
One thing about Puerto Rico was integrated with the IRS.
32:28
So everything there was kind of above board, right?
32:31
Mm-hmm.
32:32
Do you have people that are doing things offshore as well?
32:34
Things like that or?
32:35
oh
32:36
One that we are focusing on is something like Puerto Rico because you don't have to be there for a long time.
32:41
mean, six months out of the year for 40 years and you're avoiding some capital gains.
32:45
I mean, if you have a liquidity event, there's a huge opportunity there.
32:48
But long-term, if you can get it structured there, yes.
32:51
uh So I think, you're seeing that across the board, used to, we would talk about the Caymans or maybe it's Portugal or maybe it's other places where you're buying in and
33:00
you're just simply just buying real estate.
33:01
You get some residency and you're avoiding that now.
33:04
worldwide your taxes to come back to the US, but you're right, Puerto Rico is one of the few because it's already tied into the code.
33:11
You've got the, uh, the 60 act already in, and that's associated directly with the US treasury.
33:16
And so the IRS is, uh that's already an agreement that's already made now that won't be there forever, but that's a huge opportunity right now.
33:24
So I, um, that's, that's probably one of the better opportunities.
33:29
And but we continue to look at those, even if it's an offshore fund.
33:32
So a lot of the funds itself that you can avoid some of the onshore tax taxation because you're just in the right form of the investment.
33:41
A lot of these investments will get set up offshore just to avoid the taxation within a specific investment.
33:47
Doesn't have to be your whole portfolio or all of your assets.
33:51
You don't have to move essentially everything, but you can be mindful of some of those opportunities out there, how you're just investing itself.
33:58
Right, interesting, yeah, very interesting.
34:00
um I'm trying to think what questions the audience might be having here.
34:06
um I'm thinking cash flow, um continuing to work, um risk management, risk tolerance, risk um capacity, those are all good things.
34:21
Do you have any kind of a formula that lets people at least put some of that on paper where they can kind of work that out and then
34:28
get the emotional that resonates or doesn't resonate kind of thing.
34:31
We do.
34:32
mean, we take them through a process.
34:33
So one is just an intro explaining who we are because as a boutique independent RIA, it is a little bit different.
34:39
It's not just a retail firm.
34:41
So we get to walk through and say, we're not just going to talk about your investments, but let's talk about the risk management.
34:46
Do you have a will?
34:46
Do you have a trust?
34:47
What's your estate plan look like?
34:49
Because truly what we find out is your estate plan and your tax plan.
34:53
Usually there's no strategy on the tax plan.
34:55
You just have a CPA that's doing.
34:57
a reactive plan on your taxes and you're not doing any planning ahead of time.
35:01
And we've just talked about three different items that you should be just on this conversation.
35:06
So having all of those put together, that's what a true advisor, that's what we think a true advisor should be looking at.
35:12
And so we interact either with a full team.
35:15
So I think that's one of the most important is have the right team interacting.
35:19
You know, if you're to review your wills every few years, the same thing for your portfolio.
35:25
So somebody that has that expertise of where that might be.
35:29
uh One thing it does stick out is just we do because the conversations a lot lately is just prioritizing your estate plan and how does that incorporate with your portfolio?
35:38
Because really it's where your assets going because is it going to your family?
35:42
Is it going to the IRS or is it going to charity?
35:44
mean, you're it's very few places that it can go, but you do get to pick.
35:49
You just have to plan accordingly before something happens to you.
35:52
And that has to be aligned with your long term goals.
35:55
So you can have access to your assets or give up control of that.
36:00
um There's lots of ways to do that.
36:03
So your estate plan is one focus, of course, but that longevity of the portfolio, we do find that there's a lot of wealth out there, um but we find problems with access to that
36:15
wealth.
36:16
Maybe it's tied up, maybe the lack of liquidity is there.
36:19
and we were talking about Warren Buffett before he provides that dry powder.
36:23
He provides that liquidity at the right time because when the opportunities come along and you can't take advantage of that, for example, much less pay your own bills, whether
36:32
you're, know, at home or a business that cashflow and liquidity is super important.
36:37
So that's something you have to focus on and that is within your portfolio or its income from the business.
36:43
But that's a mindset of it's not just investing anymore.
36:47
It's really the whole package.
36:49
You you bring up a good point.
36:52
We know that people that are called in the ultra wealthy category will set up their own private family offices, right?
37:01
And a family office is essentially the team and the team even expands inside of a family office to have people that are out actively hunting for investment opportunities and, you
37:13
know, private equity opportunities and things like that.
37:16
Right.
37:17
So
37:17
I know in some of the startups I've been involved with, we've spoken with family offices about the opportunity we had, blah, blah, blah.
37:23
And they have their own criteria for what they want to invest in.
37:26
But the point being, there are also fractional family offices where there's a team, know, an attorney, a CPA, a financial advisor, uh you know, whoever else is on that team.
37:38
And then they sort of function uh fractionally, right?
37:42
It's almost like a net jet.
37:44
You don't want to buy the jet, but you get to fly on the jet, right?
37:46
And then.
37:47
Yeah.
37:47
your where does your firm fall in into that?
37:50
Are you are you yourself a fractional sort of family office or do you see yourself as a component of people that put together sort of their own version of a fractional or what do
38:01
you think?
38:02
It's a great question uh because family office is a big word.
38:05
means a lot of different things to a lot of people.
38:06
So, and then when you have a large chunk of money and you decide to set something up like that, that is truly a family office.
38:13
Now, one thing we don't do is something like a concierge service where, you know, if you get in a car wreck, we're going to take over and handle that and let you know when it's
38:20
done.
38:21
That's one thing that we don't do outside of something like that.
38:24
We are a multi-family office is really what we consider ourselves.
38:29
We're a personal CFO to the family itself.
38:31
because we're having all of those conversations.
38:34
do taxes within the firm.
38:36
We manage a portfolio, but we have all the discussions.
38:39
We're the ones that are doing the strategy on your tax plan.
38:42
So we may interact with your CPA.
38:45
And the same thing for the attorney.
38:46
We don't write the documents, but we have all of the conversations and all of the plan associated with it.
38:52
Now, I typically will bring the team if their team is not already set.
38:57
I bring the team.
38:57
I've already got all of those set.
38:59
So we really show up and put the whole
39:01
the whole package together.
39:03
So I list us as yes, a multifamily office, more of that fractional as you say, because it's for the long term plan.
39:11
We're not just an investment advisor, we truly become that wealth advisor interacting with all of those lines because there is a true intersection with all of those strategies and
39:22
making sure you have somebody that makes sure for the estate plan.
39:25
Most often we find out that
39:27
Your estate plan is not doing what you thought it was going to.
39:31
And that's usually because it's not tied to the portfolio correctly.
39:34
For as an example.
39:35
Yeah, No, think if you're listening to this, that's a really good take home point.
39:40
It sort of takes a village in a way to kind of get this right because there's enough different uh specialists that have unique information that kind of make this work.
39:51
It'll be interesting to see how AI kind of helps streamline that over time, right?
39:54
Even for you, right?
39:56
But nonetheless, I think being able to work with a team is...
40:01
uh
40:02
is super important and you can have all the people, but if they're not integrated, ah you know, like here we have, you know, fitness and we have nutrition, we have physicians, we
40:13
have nurse practitioners, we have regenerative medicine, we have testing, have, you know, all these different components to integrate it into a comprehensive, you know, call it a
40:22
family hospice for your health kind of thing.
40:24
um And if you're listening to this, just think because you have a CPA or you have an attorney,
40:31
especially in the context of, you know, a changing world order, changing currencies, um know, changing standards for fiat currencies.
40:41
mean, everything else, right?
40:42
Gold standards, crypto standards.
40:44
I mean, there's so many things in flux right now.
40:46
think being able to talk with somebody and figure out a strategy about, you know, how you minimize your downside and take advantage of the opportunity that's in front of us right
40:55
now.
40:56
So, yeah.
40:57
Yeah.
40:57
And you're looking for the team that spends their time looking for those.
41:01
mean, we're always continue, you know, a lot of times the business can be commoditized.
41:06
You know, if it's a large cap equity manager, that's not my expertise.
41:10
I know who to go do for that, but I'm looking at where am I providing additional value?
41:14
Where's the additional service that we're providing that makes us good?
41:18
Cause you mentioned AI, it is the adaptation.
41:21
So you continually have to get better.
41:23
You know, there's new things we talked about a personal
41:26
Trust company to set up so you have better protection or a third-party corporate corporate trustee So there's always something new that should be applied That we didn't talk about
41:36
two years ago much less five or ten and it's not necessarily just the portfolio But you know, for example, we talked about crypto just last week Is it a long-term allocation that
41:45
should be in the portfolio alongside gold and silver?
41:48
uh possibly
41:49
because is the blockchain going to be very important for protection?
41:54
you know, worldwide you see crypto being used in lots of places, not as much in the U S.
41:58
So we talk about things like that and what's on the verge of what is next, you know, where do derivatives fit in and should private lending be in my portfolio?
42:08
Those are conversations you probably don't see much less deal flow.
42:11
I mean, you and I may see a lot of deal flow ourselves, but as a retail investor, maybe you're not finding the right one.
42:18
So you do need access to that.
42:19
And there's people that that's what your advising team should look for, whether it's on the tax, on the investment or or estate planning together.
42:28
Yeah, I think, oh I think that's right.
42:30
You know, in our world, um, and the audience knows this is we're, we're married to the questions, right?
42:36
How do we, you know, how do we make a hundred to new 30, right?
42:38
How do we live well, 120, right?
42:40
How good can we be?
42:42
And, and in your case, you could vet a firm to work with, if you're listening to this by asking them what questions they're married to, right?
42:52
Because uh I think a lot of firms, a lot of attorneys, lot of CPAs, lot of firms, even family offices can get married to a particular strategy or a particular way of doing
43:01
things, right?
43:01
And I think when the world is so volatile, uh it represents opportunity for asking the right questions, but it represents chaos if you're married to your answers, right?
43:12
So again, vetting the people that you're gonna work with becomes super important too, yeah.
43:17
think for us, one thing that just sticks out is creating that strategy.
43:21
I will say most clients, all of our clients are first time wealth creators.
43:26
So they're doing it for the first time.
43:27
Very few trust fund kids where they're stepping in and taking over money.
43:32
So what that means for them is how do they do this for the first time?
43:36
And they've never had a strategy.
43:37
So we're helping putting that strategy together because we have the knowledge of how to do it, but we've also had the expertise of when to do the right strategy.
43:45
for a particular person.
43:46
And we find that that's not always the case out there.
43:49
And because of now over 25 years doing this in different capacities, again, it's not products anymore.
43:56
I will go find whatever it is under the sun that the right one that fits in the portfolio.
44:00
I do find that that's very, very different.
44:03
So if you're going to a retail shop to say, well, I've got a list of 10 things, or sometimes I'll get a new prospect to say, or well, tell me how you did last year.
44:11
I don't have one client, two clients that have the same portfolio.
44:15
So I can't say, well, you did this, but if you were this type of investor, can give you the range of what it would have done.
44:22
And I can give you some of our best solutions that we've already put in the portfolio or some of the things that we like as investments.
44:29
uh But a lot of times it's not already available and we need to go find it, go do the due diligence and bring it to the platform.
44:36
So we're continually adding to the platform because that's what's appropriate.
44:40
That's right.
44:40
So it's different than a fund where you just throw your money in and whatever they're doing, they're doing and you're along for the ride along with everybody else in the fund,
44:47
right?
44:47
this
44:48
I've done that in the past, but I don't feel no two solutions are great for each.
44:55
Everybody has their own situation and you have to understand your situation.
44:59
And that's where probably the first step is.
45:01
We kept talking a lot about capacity and tolerance.
45:03
You got to be honest with yourself of what is your true tolerance, much less your capacity.
45:08
And that's a true quick measurement of yourself.
45:10
And that's what we usually walk through a conversation.
45:12
You asked me, do we take you through to make it that
45:15
take that emotion out.
45:16
We do.
45:16
That's really what we walk through and talk about the hundred year floods.
45:20
And it's, is an actual process of analyzing where you are right now, seeing what's available, what's the longterm plan.
45:28
And then every few months, I will say it changes.
45:32
It's not a fire and forget either.
45:33
You don't put your portfolio together, but maybe you're having all the other conversations that affect it also.
45:38
So it's a continual conversation that frequently changes.
45:42
Yeah, it's really, it's so analogous to health, right?
45:45
It's just, it's the health of your wealth and the health of your body, mind and spirit, right?
45:50
So, but the programmatic elements of it are exactly the same, know, reassessing, uh know, adapting all the different things, rejuvenating, um you know, whatever it might be.
46:03
um when you're looking at...
46:07
As you're listening to this, when you're looking at really optimizing your health, every strategy you're using to optimize your health is something you should also just apply to
46:14
the whole wealth conversation, quite honestly.
46:17
Same categories, yeah.
46:19
And similar to you and you know, you do testing, you make some changes and you see what the results, does that put you on that strategy?
46:25
But you're putting, putting together a health strategy for that health span, making sure that you don't only just live longer, but you have that lifespan as well to be healthy in
46:35
your older age, getting up to that hundred as well.
46:38
So if you're unhealthy from 90 to a hundred, that's not fun.
46:41
That's not comfortable.
46:42
The same thing for your portfolio.
46:43
If you don't have enough, you're eating peanut butter and jelly every day.
46:46
and you're still, there's no true wealth span along with that health span if you're just uncomfortable living in a place.
46:54
So both of those, think those are probably the two most important things later in life.
46:58
I mean, you've got to have your health and you've got to be able to pay for it.
47:01
That's it.
47:02
Yeah.
47:02
Beautiful.
47:03
Any other, any other comments you want to make at this point?
47:06
It's been an interesting.
47:07
know, I think longevity is where we have focused on.
47:11
The game has changed for us because we plan for now the long term.
47:15
We've talked about, you know, it's no longer just retiring and what you either change options or you're providing that income to be able to do some different things later in
47:25
life.
47:25
So we want you to have a more fulfilling life.
47:27
We think we're changing client lives for the better.
47:30
That's what we're really set out to do.
47:32
And that's through conversation.
47:33
It's not just the portfolio anymore.
47:35
So it's really all of that packaged together as it comes to be and understanding what that relationship is for the long term.
47:42
Cause your family is important and now your family should be included with all of those thoughts as you think long term.
47:49
So a lot of our clients had advisors before, but understanding how that connection is, when we're coming to strategy with maybe for example, tax that they've never talked about
47:58
before.
47:59
We've just hit on a few items here, but there are so many interesting things to find.
48:05
as just a check in.
48:06
Yeah, perfect.
48:08
So how do people get a hold of you if they want to kind of explore further the conversation of optimizing their wealth strategy to go along with their health strategy?
48:21
The easiest one, our website's got a lot of great information, veracitycapital.com.
48:27
know, veracity means uh ultimate truth, truthfulness, seeking the truthfulness.
48:33
So veracitycapital.com, reach out to me, uh kevin.gray at veracitycapital.com or info at veracitycapital.com.
48:41
We did just record our most recent market outlook.
48:44
We do that once a quarter.
48:46
and what our feelings and our thoughts are out there and we'll play it post on the site as well.
48:51
And you can gain access to that information, but be happy to have a uh consultative discussion for any client actually looking for, you know, what's the right opportunity for
49:03
them for their long-term plan.
49:05
Yeah, exactly.
49:06
that's E R A C I T Y capital C A P I T A L veracitycapital.com.
49:14
Kevin.grey at veracitycapital.com also.
49:18
So awesome.
49:20
Well, Kevin, it's been a pleasure chatting with you.
49:24
interesting times.
49:25
Yeah.
49:26
So thanks so much.
49:27
Yeah.
49:27
always learn sitting with you and hopefully this was a value as well.
49:31
I think the intersection of this health and wealth is really what a lot of our conversations go and I speak a lot about health with my clients long term and you know it
49:41
is different now and it's a very interesting way to go about it.
49:46
Well, longevity has really made it into the vernacular, right?
49:49
It's really, you know, and, one of the interesting things is longevity is being attached to virtually everything because, uh, it's, it's interesting.
49:58
Um, but nonetheless, I'm really happy that longevity has made it into the vernacular because it's, it's going to change, how we think about things.
50:06
I'm actually going to Washington DC to speak with, um, the congressional, uh, AIDS on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday about longevity and health and, know,
50:17
changing in terms of how they think about it, what funding is and things like this and what kinds of things are they funding, right?
50:23
They're so focused on chronic disease right now, but they're not looking at the root cause of chronic disease and they're not looking at the root cause of the root cause of chronic
50:31
disease either, right?
50:32
oh So being able to actually open their eyes hopefully to that will give them a better sense of kind of where to, you know, commit dollars, so to speak.
50:43
So be interesting.
50:44
I'm anxious to hear the outcome of that as you focus on inflammation and the other some of the other causes not just, you know, taking a pill to go fix the issue.
50:53
It's what's causing the issue.
50:55
Yeah.
50:57
So should be good.
50:58
All right.
50:59
Well, thanks again, Kevin.
51:00
Really, really a pleasure.
51:01
Yeah, thanks for having me.
51:03
It was a great conversation.
51:04
Enjoyed it as always.
51:05
Beautiful.