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Dallas Bribers Club · Pod Save America

• 0:00
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• 1:42
  Speaker 3: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: On today's show, we recorded late.
• 1:50
  Speaker 5: So we could bring you our analysis of every single
• 1:52
  Speaker 5: minute of the unprecedented, first of its kind, world historic
• 1:58
  Speaker 5: Republican midterm convention in Dallas, where Trump bribed voters with $ 5, 000
• 2:05
  Speaker 5: checks he can't deliver.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: J.D.
• 2:08
  Speaker 5: Vance tried to both position himself as the heir to
• 2:11
  Speaker 5: Trump's legacy, but also run away from it. Republicans marked
• 2:15
  Speaker 5: the 25th anniversary of 9-11 by accusing Democrats of supporting terrorism.
• 2:20
  Speaker 5: And even John Fetterman made a cameo. Then, because this
• 2:24
  Speaker 5: episode is dedicated to Republicans trying to sell themselves, you'll
• 2:28
  Speaker 5: hear Lovett's conversation with the Republican candidate for governor.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: Of California, Steve Hilton.
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: That thing still happening?
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: Not a joke. Reached out.
• 2:38
  Speaker 5: We said, sure, we'd love to chat. Javier Becerra, if
• 2:41
  Speaker 5: you're out there, call us back maybe. We'd love to
• 2:44
  Speaker 5: talk to you too. We've been trying.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: Okay. Dan, let's get right into it.
• 2:50
  Speaker 5: On the off chance that you all weren't glued to
• 2:53
  Speaker 5: the special two-night run of Donnie Does Dallas, here's a
• 2:58
  Speaker 5: taste of what you missed.
• 3:03
  Speaker 6: And on June 14th, 1946, God looked down on his
• 3:07
  Speaker 6: planned paradise and said, I need a caretaker.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: So God gave us Trump.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: God bless Trump.
• 3:13
  Speaker 7: The greatest president in the history of this nation, Donald J.
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: Trump.
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  Speaker 8: I discovered as a self-effacing man of superior intelligence, of
• 3:27
  Speaker 8: empathy and compassion, It was an encyclopedic grasp of the
• 3:31
  Speaker 8: issues in.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Molecular detail.
• 3:35
  Speaker 6: Nobody knows that dumb has a B at the end
• 3:38
  Speaker 6: of it.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Mostly what it is. D-U-M, and that's fine. Divertrats! Extreme candidates!
• 3:43
  Speaker 9: We'll rip that heart out of our chest!
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: They hate our culture. They hate what it means to
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: be American.
• 3:51
  Speaker 6: Please, if you don't mind, don't anybody go to the bathroom.
• 3:54
  Speaker 10: The Democrat Party are advocates for evil.
• 4:01
  Speaker 6: He ran a campaign to beat meat. He called it
• 4:04
  Speaker 6: beat meat. I don't know what the hell he meant
• 4:06
  Speaker 6: by that. Mohammed Al-Fayyad. It's never Mohammed Jones. I think
• 4:12
  Speaker 6: we should call... The Hormone Strait, we should call it
• 4:16
  Speaker 6: the Trump Strait. I should get something out of it.
• 4:19
  Speaker 6: The Trump Strait. Because, you know, Lake Ontario, we're going
• 4:22
  Speaker 6: to call that now Lake America. New Mexico, we think
• 4:25
  Speaker 6: it should be called New America. Someday there'll be a
• 4:28
  Speaker 6: time when I don't get back to the original subject.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: And then you can say he's had it.
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: These people are sick!
• 4:34
  Speaker 6: So I'm asking you to pretend that I'm on the ballot.
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: I'm on the ballot.
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  Speaker 6: Please pretend that I'm running. and get out and vote
• 4:44
  Speaker 6: on November 3rd or sooner. Because in actuality, I really
• 4:48
  Speaker 6: am running.
• 4:50
  Speaker 5: Now, I'm biased, but I think that was a fantastic
• 4:53
  Speaker 5: representation of all the programming from both nights. That was
• 4:58
  Speaker 5: mostly from the first night. If you're wondering what happened
• 5:01
  Speaker 5: the second night, we watched same thing.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, same thing.
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  Speaker 3: Same messages, sometimes the same exact lines.
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: Sometimes the same people.
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  Speaker 5: You see that super cut, you watch that super cut,
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  Speaker 5: you got the gist. He got the gist of the
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  Speaker 5: two-day convention in Dallas.
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: We saved you about 18 hours of Fox News viewing.
• 5:20
  Speaker 6: Yep.
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  Speaker 5: A lot of glazing of Donald Trump. A lot of
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: scaring people about the terrorist-sympathizing commie Democrats and Hassan Piker.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: A lot of Hassan Piker. Yep.
• 5:34
  Speaker 5: And that's about it. Dan, you were telling me earlier
• 5:36
  Speaker 5: how much you loved those last couple rhetorical flourishes from
• 5:41
  Speaker 5: Donald Trump. in that super cut about how he is
• 5:44
  Speaker 5: on the ballot, pretend he's on the ballot.
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  Speaker 3: I'm on the ballot. I'm actually running. He did it.
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: He, he, again, he repeated, he, there was a refrain tonight. Uh, he,
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: he reprised that, um, uh, in his speech where we're
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: recording this Thursday night. Cause we hate ourselves. Um, but, uh, he, he,
• 5:59
  Speaker 5: he repeated that tonight many times as well. So the
• 6:02
  Speaker 5: message is clear. He wants to, he wants everyone to
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  Speaker 5: pretend he's on the ballot.
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  Speaker 4: I think it's important to set the stage here for
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  Speaker 4: how all of this happened, which is Trump gave a
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: two hour speech last night.
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  Speaker 3: Two hours.
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  Speaker 4: Which wasn't even on the schedule to begin with.
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  Speaker 3: Just shy of two hours.
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  Speaker 4: On Wednesday night. Just shy of two hours.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Tonight, J.D.
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: Vance speaks for a long time. We'll get into J.D.
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: Vance's speech. And then Trump gets up there and says,
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  Speaker 4: I'm going to be brief.
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  Speaker 2: Tired of speaking.
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  Speaker 4: I have invited this opera singer to perform for you
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  Speaker 4: and I'm going to stand here and you're going to
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  Speaker 4: listen to his music. And then he gave, I think,
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  Speaker 4: about 30 minutes of the same speech from the night before.
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  Speaker 10: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Just a condensed version in his mind. Condensed.
• 6:37
  Speaker 5: And we were watching it and we're like, Should we
• 6:40
  Speaker 5: add some clips from this to the supercut? And we're like, no,
• 6:43
  Speaker 5: because it's literally all the same shit, except for one
• 6:45
  Speaker 5: part that we may play at the end.
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: Yes, which is truly a phenomenal part. So now I
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: think we have to play it. It's hard to take
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: any of this seriously because it was so absurd and
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: so bad, but The fact that Donald Trump stood up
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: there at a time in which his approval rating is
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: in the low 30s, at a time in which we
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: are mired in a war in Iran that has caused
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: oil prices went up $ 10 today during the Republican convention.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: Diesel hit its highest price ever. At many gas stations,
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: it hit $ 9. 99 a gallon, and it can't go higher.
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  Speaker 2: They don't have another space to do it.
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  Speaker 4: I don't know why I'm laughing. They never anticipated diesel
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  Speaker 4: this expensive.
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  Speaker 2: It's awful.
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  Speaker 5: It's going to make all of our lives more expensive.
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  Speaker 5: And the Houthis are out there just about to control
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  Speaker 5: another straight.
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  Speaker 4: And that Trump would say, go out there and say,
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  Speaker 4: I'm on the ballot, which is the Democratic message.
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  Speaker 2: That is what we want.
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  Speaker 4: We don't want this to be a race necessarily about
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  Speaker 4: Susan Collins or Mike Rogers or John Hughes. This is
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  Speaker 4: about whether you want Donald Trump in charge of everything
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  Speaker 4: else or you want to send a message to Donald Trump.
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  Speaker 4: And he's saying, send a.
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  Speaker 2: Message to me.
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  Speaker 4: The 60-some percent of you who are unhappy with my presidency,
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  Speaker 4: I'm reminding you today that I am on the ballot,
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  Speaker 4: that it is about me. So if you're unhappy with me,
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  Speaker 4: you should vote.
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  Speaker 5: Now, some Republican candidates in tough races did attend the event.
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  Speaker 5: John Husted was there. Mike Rogers was there. Many did not.
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  Speaker 5: There was no Susan Collins. A lot of front-line House
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  Speaker 5: Republican candidates were not there either. Do you think that
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  Speaker 5: skipping this event as a Republican candidate was D-U-M?
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  Speaker 4: I'm trying to understand the... strategic logic behind Mike Rogers
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  Speaker 4: and John Husted going.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, me too.
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  Speaker 4: Is it that you need money, and all of the
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  Speaker 4: Republican money is in Dallas, and so there were a
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  Speaker 4: gazillion fundraisers in and around this. Is it that you
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  Speaker 4: were afraid that if you didn't go, you would anger Trump?
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  Speaker 3: Yes.
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  Speaker 4: And that he would then take it out on you
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  Speaker 4: in some way, shape, or form?
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  Speaker 3: I think I picked that one.
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  Speaker 4: I think that's the most logical answer there.
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  Speaker 5: Or.
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  Speaker 5: Is there some kind of calculation that swing voters are
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  Speaker 5: never going to watch this anyway? And that if you are,
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: especially for Husted, Rogers is a real head scratcher, but
• 9:18
  Speaker 5: especially if you're John Husted and you're in a state
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  Speaker 5: that Trump won by double digits, that swing voters aren't
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  Speaker 5: going to watch this speech or watch any of these
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: speeches at this convention. But base voters who might be
• 9:31
  Speaker 5: upset with you or might be thinking about staying home.
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: They're not going to vote for Sherrod Brown, but maybe
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: they're not going to vote for John Husted and they
• 9:36
  Speaker 5: voted for Trump in 2024. Maybe they're tuning in on
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: Fox and now they see John Husted at the convention
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: or I don't know. Yeah, it's, I mean, maybe they're like,
• 9:47
  Speaker 5: it doesn't hurt. Like, so why wouldn't you go if
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: it doesn't hurt?
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that probably comes out. You're going to get,
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: I mean, they've stood next to Trump a thousand times.
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  Speaker 4: They've praised Trump. They have, right um like debased themselves
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  Speaker 4: for trump so it's not like you need this moment
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  Speaker 4: to do it but the whole it kind of gets
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: at the entire sort of idea behind the convention other
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: than just trump wanting to feed his own ravenous ego
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: but is you know i think the way that republican
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: strategists are like recounting this is Our base is incredibly disenchanted.
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: If you look at the CNN polls in Michigan and
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: Maine that came out, Democrats have a double-digit enthusiasm advantage.
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: You see this across the board. We got to get
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: the Republican base fired up. Here's the fundamental problem with
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: that logic is that the sort of the Faustian bargain
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: of Donald Trump for Republicans always was he fires up Democrats,
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: but he fires up Republicans. What is not true anymore
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: is that Republicans are as enthusiastic about Trump as they
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: used to be. The number to watch here is his
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: strong approval among Republicans. That number is, right now, 20
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: points lower than it was at the beginning of his presidency,
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  Speaker 4: 20 points lower than it was right around Election Day
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: in 2024, and 20 points lower than it was on
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: Election Day 2018.
• 10:58
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: And so now you're just, independents and swing voters hate you,
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  Speaker 4: Democrats are fired up to run against you, and you
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: don't have the same impact with Republicans that you did before.
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: And you get to kind of feel that at the
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: convention when Trump was speaking, too.
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  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: Because even if you're not pissed at Trump. Like this
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: is why the, as you said, the strong approval is important.
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: Even if you're not pissed at him, like the whole
• 11:21
  Speaker 5: feeling I got from that convention and his speeches, especially
• 11:24
  Speaker 5: is like.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: Man, they're just out of gas. It's over like that party.
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: Like our party right now is there are debates and
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: there's the center left versus DSA and the progressives and
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: old and young and everyone's having, but like, at least
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: everyone's like fighting about something. The Republicans are just like,
• 11:43
  Speaker 5: there's nothing new there. We've been dealing with this. We've
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: been like 10 years of this now.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: And it's like, it is. It's glazing Trump and the
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: Democrats are going to kill you. That's it.
• 11:54
  Speaker 5: They don't have anything else to say about anything. And
• 11:56
  Speaker 5: like their culture warship that they sprinkle in. That is
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: like also sounding extremely old and tired in all the
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: lines we've heard before. In terms of like people actually
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: tuning in, Obviously, we're recording this Thursday night, so we
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: don't have the Thursday night ratings, but Wednesday night, where
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: Trump gave his two-hour speech, I think it was two
• 12:14
  Speaker 5: and a half million people tuned in.
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: Which is flat over what Hannity gets normally at the
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: exact same time on Fox.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 12:22
  Speaker 5: So that's from Fox, because CNN and MS didn't carry it.
• 12:24
  Speaker 5: The networks did not carry it. OAN and C-SPAN and Newsmax,
• 12:31
  Speaker 5: I guess, you could probably catch it there, but that's
• 12:35
  Speaker 5: just kind of speaking to the choir. So it doesn't
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: sound like this. And I was looking at that, you
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: and I always look at that What's Resonating newsletter. You're like,
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: what's happening online? Nothing, nothing about the convention was being
• 12:49
  Speaker 5: discussed online today at all.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: It's a real.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: Or breaking through, sorry. It's just, this gets to your
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: point that Just everyone can feel that the Trump era
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: is essentially over. He's not gone. He's still very dangerous.
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: He can do very, very bad things for.
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: The next two years. We're all living that.
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: But his political relevance is over. He's less interesting to people.
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: He's less frightening to people. His ability to dominate the
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: conversation is greatly diminished. He's still talking. Fewer people are listening.
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: Fewer people care. You can feel that through the entire convention.
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: Now, speaking of non-official party conventions, have you heard of
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: any big gatherings coming up on the Democratic side? Perhaps
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: a history-making, incredible gathering that's going to come up in
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: just a couple months?
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: What, have some of the smartest strategists, some of the
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: least boring politicians?
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: And us.
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: Are you referring to the one the only CrookedCon 2026.
• 13:55
  Speaker 10: I am.
• 13:55
  Speaker 5: I am referring to the one and only CrookedCon here
• 13:58
  Speaker 5: in an organic plug.
• 14:00
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: Because we love an organic plug. And to let everyone
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: know that there are still tickets available. Not many, but
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: there's still tickets available. There's still discounted tickets available if
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: you become a Crooked subscriber, which is, and by the way,
• 14:15
  Speaker 5: it is a perfect time to become a Crooked subscriber.
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: There's no better time. There's no better time.
• 14:20
  Speaker 5: Because you get ad-free episodes of all your favorite podcasts,
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: and you get to support all the great work we're
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: doing here to try to push back against right-wing media.
• 14:30
  Speaker 5: And so you just have to go to cricket.com slash
• 14:33
  Speaker 5: friends and become a friend of the pod.
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: I'm going to add to this because we did not
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: do a good enough job pitching this recently, and Elijah
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: yelled at us.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he did.
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: Which was a weird use of the chain of command,
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: but that's neither here nor there. It's Look, we are
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: 60-some days from the election. Polls are coming out every
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: single day.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Some are good. Some are bad.
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: Some are frightening. Some are hopeful.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: If you want.
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: To survive this next few months here, there's only one
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: way to do it, John. Polar Coaster with Dan Pfeiffer.
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: How do you get Polar Coaster with Dan Pfeiffer?
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: You subscribe.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: Anyway, I think that was a good plug, Elijah.
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: Yes, just hopefully Elijah will get off our ass for
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: a minute.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah!
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: So believe it or not, Dan, buried around the one-hour
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: mark of Trump's speech on Wednesday night, there was something
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: of an announcement, probably too generous to call it a
• 15:25
  Speaker 5: policy proposal.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: Let's listen.
• 15:29
  Speaker 6: Only I can make this promise to you, and here
• 15:32
  Speaker 6: is my promise. If the Republicans win the House of
• 15:36
  Speaker 6: Representatives and the United States Senate, both of.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Them, because of our economic... tremendous economic success.
• 15:46
  Speaker 6: In history, we've never had anything like what's happening. But
• 15:50
  Speaker 6: because of our tremendous strength and success economically, I will
• 15:56
  Speaker 6: issue a dividend to every adult citizen in the United States.
• 16:00
  Speaker 10: Of America for $ 5, 000. Yeah, sure, pal.
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: Even Trump's biggest fans didn't seem totally sold on this one,
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: in part because It would cost an estimated $ 1. 3 trillion,
• 16:13
  Speaker 5: and also it will never happen. Here's Fox's Laura Ingraham
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: asking Trump a pretty reasonable follow-up when she interviewed him
• 16:22
  Speaker 5: on Thursday after the speech.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Why not just give the money now? If you have
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: the money, why not give it now?
• 16:26
  Speaker 11: Because they can't, I'll tell you what, because the Democrats
• 16:28
  Speaker 11: can't do it, because with them it's negative growth. With us,
• 16:32
  Speaker 11: it's so positive.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: What? What?
• 16:39
  Speaker 5: What do you think of this one? What do you
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: think of this one? I was saying this to love
• 16:42
  Speaker 5: it earlier. We did a YouTube thing like it seems
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: to me that the entire purpose of this was there's
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: a lot of people out there who don't pay a
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: lot of attention to politics. And I'm going to try
• 16:54
  Speaker 5: to fool them because if they are scrolling through their
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: phones or looking at a screen and they see Trump
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: wants to give five thousand dollars, maybe they will have
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: no idea. that I could have given them a dividend
• 17:06
  Speaker 5: over the last two years and in fact promised to
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: do so, never did, even though I've had a Republican
• 17:10
  Speaker 5: Congress for the last two years. And maybe they'll just
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: not know any of that and just think, oh, I'll
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: vote Republican and get $ 5, 000. And they're just counting on
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: those low information voters who don't pay much attention to
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: politics to just to fool them, basically.
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: No one is that dumb. What goes along with being
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: a low information voter- I am confident. There are people
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: who are already in Trump's cult who will believe him.
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: There is no one who is skeptical of Trump who
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: thinks he's going to give them $ 5, 000 if they vote
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: for Republicans.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't survive like one Google search.
• 17:44
  Speaker 11: Yes.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: Well, it's not even that.
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: I mean, every person knows that paying someone for a
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: vote is a crime. That's one.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: Two, Trump has already promised them.
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: A $ 5, 000 Doge dividend, which he did not give. He
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: also just has already been giving out money to people
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: from the tariffs.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: But not to people, to corporations. Like, it's so stupid.
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: The people who he's trying to fool are the people
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: who are the most skeptical politicians. Making insane promises is
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: an insane promise. This is another example that everyone, from
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: Trump to his aides to the entire Republican Party, are
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: just fucking mailing it in. This is one of the stupidest,
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: most embarrassing ideas that any politician has ever offered in
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: United States history. It's so insane. It's so stupid. It
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: can't be done.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: It costs.
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: basically the entire non-defense discretion, non-entitlement portion of the entire
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: government budget for this, it would massively increase inflation. These
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: are checks three times larger than the stimulus checks, which
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: were limited people who made $ 75, 000 or less. So he
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: wants to give $ 5, 000 to Elon Musk for voting for him? Like,
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: what a stupid fucking idea.
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: This is not a, he's going to give the $ 5, 000,
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: pretend to give the $ 5, 000 to people who don't vote
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: for him. Yeah.
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: That's the other thing too.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: Everyone gets it.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: It's fair.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: This is fair.
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: Everyone, everyone gets the $ 5, 000, the billionaires, the millionaires, everyone,
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: but no one's getting it because when he wanted to
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: give like a thousand dollar dividend or a $ 2, 000 dividend
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: or less reporters went and interviewed all the Republicans in Congress.
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: And they all said, no, we don't want to do
• 19:18
  Speaker 5: this because it would increase the deficit and increase inflation
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: because we are in still an inflationary environment. Thanks to
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: Trump and his tariffs and his war. And so Republicans
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: don't want to do it. And then he also said
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: in an interview Thursday, oh, well, I don't think I
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: need the Republican Congress to do this. I can just
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: cut the check and give the money, which is also
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: not true at all.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: Not legal. There's no money. There's no money. There's no money.
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: There is the cost of, they said they pay for
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: it with tariff money.
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: 300 billion.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: That's the risk.
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: Is an order of magnitude greater than all the tariff
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: money that we have brought in.
• 19:54
  Speaker 5: About four times, about four times the amount.
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: And we're already giving that money away back to Amazon, Apple, Walmart,
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: et cetera, because the tariffs were illegal.
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it has been enjoyable listening to various Republicans try
• 20:10
  Speaker 5: to defend this or at least answer it. I think
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: Ted Cruz was like, well, it depends on how it's structured.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: J.D.
• 20:15
  Speaker 5: Vance was like, well, I think that maybe we could
• 20:18
  Speaker 5: make it so that the rich people don't get the 5,000.
• 20:21
  Speaker 5: And also, you know, I think he said, I think
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: he just said, yeah, maybe the rich people won't get
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: the 5,000 and then didn't mention it at all in
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: his speech tonight.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: In fact, no one mentioned it in their speech but Trump,
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: I don't think.
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: The Times story about how Republicans were really super into
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: this idea had this great line about how defending the
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: policy was left to Trump's more intellectually versatile allies.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: Who are they?
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Ted Cruz.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: That's true. That is true.
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: Ingram did manage to get one clear definitive answer out
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: of Trump on a related issue.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: Take a listen.
• 20:57
  Speaker 11: Are you going to campaign harder than you've ever campaigned
• 20:59
  Speaker 11: in this month?
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: But isn't this just as important, Mr. President?
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, your whole legacy is on the line.
• 21:04
  Speaker 11: It's never as important. Look, I'm campaigning for other people.
• 21:08
  Speaker 11: When you say my legacy, I'll be a block. I'll
• 21:10
  Speaker 11: end up being a blocker. I'll block all their bad
• 21:12
  Speaker 11: stuff for two years. It won't be the same, but
• 21:14
  Speaker 11: I'll be a blocker. What can I tell you?
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: That's interesting.
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: I didn't see the end of that before. He's kind
• 21:20
  Speaker 5: of resigned to potentially losing this thing. It was a
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: great question from Laura Ingram.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: It's not the answer she expected.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: I was going to say, yeah, it was not the
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: answer she expected. More of a bad answer than a
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: good question.
• 21:32
  Speaker 5: But it kind of, he caught, he got caught in
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: his own trap there because it's like, pretend I'm on
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: the ballot.
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: It's all about me. It's all about me. And she's like, okay, well,
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: it's all about you. So are you going to campaign
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: really hard?
• 21:40
  Speaker 11: No.
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: Well, the difference here is what was on the ballot
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: last time was not just his presidency, his freedom.
• 21:48
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: His freedom. His freedom.
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: And like, he also is going to, I mean, he's
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: going to lose, if he loses... The midterms, he's just
• 21:56
  Speaker 5: going to say the Republicans sucked.
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: They ran away from him.
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah, they ran away from him and they weren't good
• 22:01
  Speaker 5: candidates and he tried his best and he campaigned as
• 22:03
  Speaker 5: hard as he could.
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: But like, what are you going to do? It's not Trump.
• 22:06
  Speaker 5: I tried to make it Trump, but it wasn't the
• 22:08
  Speaker 5: real thing. People are smart and they can see when
• 22:13
  Speaker 5: it's the real thing on the ballot or when it's not.
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: And I tried to say just pretend, but I guess
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: people just can't pretend. They're smarter than you give them
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: credit for. So that'll be that.
• 22:29
  Speaker 10: Pods of America is brought to you by AG1. Hey,
• 22:31
  Speaker 10: remember summer is f * * * ing dead.
• 22:33
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  Speaker 2: Getting shit done.
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• 22:40
  Speaker 2: We're getting back to school. The war in Iran is
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• 25:26
  Speaker 5: Before Trump took the stage to close things out on
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: Thursday night, J.D. Vance gave the keynote address. It was
• 25:33
  Speaker 5: hard to cut down such a masterpiece to just a
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: few highlights, but we tried.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Let's listen.
• 25:38
  Speaker 7: Democrats are running candidates who will tell your children what
• 25:41
  Speaker 7: they're allowed to say, how they're allowed to live, and importantly,
• 25:46
  Speaker 7: who they ought to hate. Because that's what the Democrat
• 25:48
  Speaker 7: Party is about in 2026.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: It's not about you.
• 25:52
  Speaker 7: It's about foreign fraudsters and it's about who they hate
• 25:56
  Speaker 7: and we gotta send their asses packing in November. The
• 25:58
  Speaker 7: country does not belong to the radicals.
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: It does not belong to the bureaucrats. It does not
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: belong to the highest bidder.
• 26:05
  Speaker 7: This country was handed down to us by our parents
• 26:09
  Speaker 7: and their parents before them. We received this national birthright
• 26:13
  Speaker 7: and we are gonna fight for it by electing Republicans
• 26:16
  Speaker 7: this November. We just had a protester interrupting us and
• 26:19
  Speaker 7: waving the Mexican flag.
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: Well, Well, my friend, if you.
• 26:28
  Speaker 7: Love Mexico so much, get your ass over there.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: I'll buy you the plane ticket.
• 26:32
  Speaker 7: If you're ever feeling down about our country, ladies and gentlemen,
• 26:35
  Speaker 7: just take a.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: Look at the beautiful ladies right behind me.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Ladies, I'd like to know.
• 26:40
  Speaker 7: What you had to drink because I'll take two of
• 26:41
  Speaker 7: them when I'm done.
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: What did that mean, do you think?
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: I think they were drunk and they were being rowdy.
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: And I didn't notice it until he said it. And
• 26:52
  Speaker 5: then I was watching... them for the rest of his speech,
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: and they did seem a little boisterous, perhaps. I don't
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: want to accuse them of being drunk.
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: He was so surprised at people being excited at one
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: of his speeches, he assumed they were drunk.
• 27:03
  Speaker 5: What do you think, Dan? Did he win you over
• 27:06
  Speaker 5: with that speech?
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: He did not win me over.
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: I am very curious of your take as a speechwriter
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: on this speech. I'm going to tell you right now
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: what I think the reception is going to be.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: I think that the sort of the press and the establishment,
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: sort of the political establishment writ large, is going to
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: be very impressed with at least the reception to this
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: speech and view it as the official, unofficial, I guess,
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: kickoff of Vance's presidential campaign where he made his most
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: compelling case for himself to date. That's how I think
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: it's going to be covered.
• 27:45
  Speaker 5: I do think they'll definitely see it as the unofficial kickoff.
• 27:50
  Speaker 5: And I can't tell how they'll receive it, but why
• 27:53
  Speaker 5: do you think they will receive it well?
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: Because people generally don't applaud when he speaks. And they
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: applaud it here. And I think he.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: How would you describe the case he made for himself?
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: Not breaking, not stepping on a rake in the middle
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: of it. I don't think he made a very good
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: case for himself, but I don't think the people, sort
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: of the figure skating judges who... grade these things, pay
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: a lot of attention to the consistency of the argument
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: or how the message plays outside of the room. I
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: think in this room, he did a much better job
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: of sounding kind of sort of sane and coherent compared
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: to all the other speakers who sounded fucking bananas, Trump
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: most included.
• 28:39
  Speaker 5: I think he's got, I think he's got a potentially
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: unsolvable problem.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's for sure.
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: Which is like, And now I'll start with your first
• 28:52
  Speaker 5: point about like how it gets judged. Like my favorite
• 28:57
  Speaker 5: line from you has been the Democrats are like reading
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: the stage directions. It's like all I can think about
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: now when I see a Democratic politician.
• 29:06
  Speaker 10: J.D.
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: Vance, to me, is the Republican version of reading the
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: stage directions. And he's also the Republican version of another
• 29:16
  Speaker 5: problem we have in our party, which is the— Too
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: many front of the class students who are like, I'm
• 29:23
  Speaker 5: going to study my way to the presidency and I'm
• 29:25
  Speaker 5: going to make sure I listen to all my strategists
• 29:28
  Speaker 5: and do all the things that I'm supposed to do
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: and that poll well. And I'm going to write the
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: speech in the right way and I'm not going to
• 29:34
  Speaker 5: be crazy like this one and I'm going to walk
• 29:36
  Speaker 5: this tightrope.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: And I think he is a smart person. I don't
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: think J.D. Vance is dumb. I think he's very smart.
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: And so I think he thinks that he is going
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: to study his way to the presidency, write the speeches,
• 29:51
  Speaker 5: work on the speeches, deliver the speeches that he's supposed
• 29:53
  Speaker 5: to give, deliver the messages that he's supposed to give,
• 29:56
  Speaker 5: and it is going to fall incredibly flat. Because it
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: doesn't sound authentic. He sounds so phony. He doesn't have
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: the problem of sounding crazy. That is absolutely right. But
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: that is no longer, I think, how he is going
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: to be judged as the 2028 race goes on. There
• 30:18
  Speaker 5: is no other Trump, right? And Trump is crazy. And
• 30:21
  Speaker 5: then there's Republicans who sound crazy and all that kind
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: of stuff. But I just think that his problem is
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: not that he sounds too crazy. His problem is that
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: he's too fucking boring and phony and smarmy. And like,
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: I just don't, I don't believe that he sold any
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: of those fine lines that I'm sure like, I don't
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: know if they pull well, but they're like you said,
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: I guess they're not crazy. Right.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: But like, I just don't think it's going to wear well. Yeah.
• 30:52
  Speaker 5: I don't think it's going to get any, I don't
• 30:53
  Speaker 5: think it's going to get anyone excited. And I don't
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: think he is going to be able to elide the, the, the, uh,
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: I think he's not as smart as he thinks he is,
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: which is he thinks that like he had this whole
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: part in the speech about, uh, he talks about Charlie Kirk, right?
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: This is the, uh, the day that the first anniversary
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: of Charlie Kirk's assassination. And he remembers Charlie. And then
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: he uses Charlie to talk about, uh, the war in Iran.
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: He doesn't say Iran, but he says, Charlie hated war.
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: And I know that there are a lot of young
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: men who love Charlie and we're big fans of Charlie
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: are now are disillusioned. Um, and you know, if you're
• 31:34
  Speaker 5: disillusioned and maybe it's about war, just know that like
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: you can have a disagreement and be on a different
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: side of one issue and still not throw out the
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: baby with the bathwater and vote for the crazy Democrats.
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: Vote for us.
• 31:46
  Speaker 5: And it's like, and if he thinks that he is
• 31:48
  Speaker 5: going to solve the problem of Donald Trump, uh, breaking
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: his promise to not get involved in more wars by
• 32:00
  Speaker 5: like some rhetorical flourish where he's like using Charlie Kirk's death.
• 32:04
  Speaker 5: Like I just, it's not going to work. It is,
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: it is too cute by half.
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: I want to stipulate a few things here.
• 32:09
  Speaker 11: Sure.
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: I was speaking to how I think the press is
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: going to receive it. And that's also a question of
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: low expectations.
• 32:14
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: And I think the expectations for JD Vance are understandably
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: quite low because he's a pretty terrible public speaker from
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: a pure performance, right? Like the, How he sounded, how
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: he was received, how he filled the podium, this was
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: probably one of his better moments. And there aren't a
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: lot of good moments, so it's not saying a ton.
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: I think, I agree with you that J.D. Vance is
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: not as smart as he thinks he is, but I
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: think his bigger problem is that the voters are smarter
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: than J.D. Vance thinks they are.
• 32:39
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: Because everything, like, you can listen to it, and it is, like,
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: he really is like a sophist. Like, it is, he, like,
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: is weaving these arguments together, and, like, each individual sentence
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: makes sense. Then you step back, particularly if you ever
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: knew and I've both done this, you go back and
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: read the speech afterwards and it makes no fucking sense.
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: And it's like full of inherent contradictions. His problem is,
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: and this has nothing to do with the kind of speeches,
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: like how he delivers a speech, even becomes great at
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: giving speeches, not going to solve the problem, is the
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: only good politicians are politicians who truly understand who they are.
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: They've gone through some period of self-discovery.
• 33:18
  Speaker 9: And J.D.
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: Vance has no idea who he is. He is a shapeshifter,
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: a code switcher for whatever works in the moment. He
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: is one way when he's at Ohio State. He's one
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: way at Ivy League Law School. He is one way
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: when it seems like Trump's going to lose. He's one
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: way when he thinks Trump's going to win. And he
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: is just constantly trying to do what he thinks makes
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: sense in that moment. Because there is no set of
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: values or morals or personal code that dictates how he
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: should respond in a moment. And so that inauthenticity is what,
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: that is like the core defining principle of every losing
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: presidential candidate of this half century. It's what killed Al Gore.
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: It's what killed John Kerry. It is what destroyed Mitt Romney.
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: It is what hurt Hillary Clinton. Like across the board,
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: this is why people lose. And he has all the
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: makings of a losing presidential candidate. Now, Democrats have to
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: dominate the right person because sometimes bad candidates do win.
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: But he is a very, very flawed candidate.
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: But you could like I was watching that speech and
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: every single line you're like, I know what he's doing here.
• 34:26
  Speaker 5: He was like hitting the Maha notes at the top
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: where he's checking all the boxes, checking all the boxes there.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 34:33
  Speaker 5: And and then even the way he handled the heckler. seemed,
• 34:37
  Speaker 5: I mean, we were all joking, false flag, false flag,
• 34:40
  Speaker 5: because it was so like, there's the heckler. I'm going
• 34:44
  Speaker 5: to stop the speech. And I wrote this whole speech,
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: but now I'm going to have to do, and he
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: actually said this, now I'm going to have to do
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: something different and turn to the heckler and go back to,
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: and then he was like so proud of himself. And
• 34:53
  Speaker 5: it's like, you know, maybe it was just in the
• 34:55
  Speaker 5: moment and it wasn't staged or whatever. I'm not going
• 34:57
  Speaker 5: to fucking throw out any conspiracies. But it was like,
• 35:00
  Speaker 5: even that, which was potentially ad-libbed, seemed like it was staged, staged, And,
• 35:07
  Speaker 5: I mean, it's just, it's so phony.
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: It's so phony.
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: You really saw that, not just in the speech, but
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: when he was doing that interview a few weeks ago
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: where he decides, he's like, this is the moment I'm
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: going to defend Usha against Abdul El-Sayed. And it just
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: seems like, even that, it seems, the whole thing about
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: his pawpaw and Abdul, it all seems so fake.
• 35:28
  Speaker 5: And that part, like, that would work, his whole, you know,
• 35:33
  Speaker 5: retort to Abdul, that would work if... people didn't remember
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: that he was the guy who went out there and said, yeah,
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: we pushed these completely unproven false conspiracies that Haitian immigrants
• 35:47
  Speaker 5: were eating pets because I disagree with Joe Biden's policy
• 35:53
  Speaker 5: of allowing them to legally be in this country.
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: And so I'm going to admit that we.
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: Just pushed false conspiracies because we wanted to get attention
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: to that fact. It's like, we all remember you said that. So, like,
• 36:05
  Speaker 5: you can't be all offended by accusations of racism now
• 36:10
  Speaker 5: and xenophobia now when we all just remembered what was
• 36:14
  Speaker 5: happening in that campaign and suddenly be so offended by
• 36:17
  Speaker 5: all this. I mean, even his, like, he had this
• 36:19
  Speaker 5: line about Tallarico, right? And he's doing the, like, Tallarico
• 36:22
  Speaker 5: can't stop talking about transgender children, which is crazy, you know, right.
• 36:27
  Speaker 5: It's like, there was one time in one interview where
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: they were like, Tyler was like, I love transgender children
• 36:32
  Speaker 5: because he'd just seen them that day. And they've like
• 36:34
  Speaker 5: made a whole thing about it.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 36:35
  Speaker 5: And so his line is a guy that age who
• 36:38
  Speaker 5: was so obsessed and focused on transgender children. I don't
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: know about you, but I never want to see that
• 36:43
  Speaker 5: guy's web browser history. It's not a good place. That
• 36:47
  Speaker 5: is a line that also wouldn't survive one follow-up question
• 36:51
  Speaker 5: from an interviewer. It's like, oh, so you're saying that
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: what evidence do you have that James Tallarico, like, wants
• 36:58
  Speaker 5: to fuck kids? Is that what you're, because you're talking
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: about his web browser?
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: Like, what are you talking about? I would love to
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: hear J.D.
• 37:04
  Speaker 5: Vance answer that because he would fall apart because he,
• 37:07
  Speaker 5: it's a line.
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: He can't, like, Trump could handle that.
• 37:09
  Speaker 5: You ask Trump that question, he would do his Trump
• 37:12
  Speaker 5: thing and he would get past it and it would
• 37:13
  Speaker 5: be like, oh, well, it's Trump, whatever.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: J.D.
• 37:15
  Speaker 5: Vance couldn't get away with that because there is no
• 37:17
  Speaker 5: answer to why did you, why did you say that line?
• 37:20
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: What did you make Put aside Vance's performance. Like this
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: was the clearest distillation. And one thing I'd say about
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: the speech is just it was really a lot about
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: him for just a midterm campaign speech. So he really
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: was viewing this as a sort of his introductory presidential
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: election speech. But let's just put that aside for a second.
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: This was the clearest distillation, I think, of what their
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: campaign strategy is, which is the even if you don't
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: love the Republicans and the things we've done, it's not
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: as good as you want. Prices are still high. We
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: are at war. The Democrats are fucking crazy. But do
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: you like, do you think he did handle that part? Well,
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: is that strategy worry you at all?
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: Um, I don't think he handled it. Like again, he
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: went through.
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: You know, he went through the, the deleted tweets of many,
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: many a Democrat.
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: Well, that's what I'm saying though.
• 38:09
  Speaker 5: It's like, if I was trying to make that argument,
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: I think there are maybe not like, okay. Saying that,
• 38:16
  Speaker 5: you know, he's, he's talking about the deleted tweets from
• 38:18
  Speaker 5: will Lawrence and Michigan seven, where he said like, fuck
• 38:21
  Speaker 5: the nuclear family in a tweet.
• 38:22
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: Um, I think it is hard to pin that on
• 38:26
  Speaker 5: the entire Democratic Party since no one else has said
• 38:29
  Speaker 5: anything close to that, even in their deleted tweets. And so,
• 38:34
  Speaker 5: which is, again, is something that it's easy for someone
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: to find out. And so if I was going to
• 38:38
  Speaker 5: make that argument, there's plenty of other positions that Democrats
• 38:41
  Speaker 5: have taken, and maybe a lot of Democrats have taken,
• 38:44
  Speaker 5: that I would try to build an argument around about
• 38:46
  Speaker 5: why those positions are out of step with the American people.
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: Just like nutpicking.
• 38:53
  Speaker 5: a few tweets from, like, one House candidate here and
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: one House candidate there, I just think that act is
• 38:58
  Speaker 5: going to get old.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: He, the whole party has this problem.
• 39:01
  Speaker 5: Trump had this problem, especially in 2020, which is, like, J.D.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: Vance talks like he is so fucking online. Yeah, that's
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: exactly right.
• 39:10
  Speaker 5: And the reason we all get it, and probably the reporters, too,
• 39:13
  Speaker 5: I mean, to your earlier point about how they judge it, like,
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: Everyone who is super online and super engaged in politics
• 39:18
  Speaker 5: and political fucking junkies who can't get off their phones
• 39:21
  Speaker 5: know all the things J.D.
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: Vance was talking about.
• 39:23
  Speaker 5: He's going to get out on that trail as a
• 39:24
  Speaker 5: candidate for president and start saying some of this shit.
• 39:27
  Speaker 5: And most people are going to be like, what do
• 39:28
  Speaker 5: you mean? What are you talking about?
• 39:30
  Speaker 11: About?
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this is, you've hit on his big, like Trump
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: is overly versed in his, in the lore of MAGA
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: stuff and right-wing media. That's because Natalie Harp prints it
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: out and hands it to him.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: But J.D.
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: Vance is like in the dark corners of the internet.
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: His brain is, is, is, Trump's brain is not warped
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: by the algorithm because he's not looking at the internet
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: in that same way.
• 39:53
  Speaker 6: J.D.
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: Vance's is. And he is emblematic of this much bigger
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: problem that you see with Republican strategists, which is their
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: brains are all pickled too. And whenever I'm doing political
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: experts react and reviewing Republican ads, they're all two steps
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: over the line because they require some sort... They both
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: require a belief in the worldview of Fox news about
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: what is actually happening out there that we all live
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: in this dystopian world where, you know, MS-13 is killing
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: everyone on the street corner. And you have to understand
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: like chapter and verse of the lore of MAGA. And
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: like that, JD Vance has it, but that speech had
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: that problem. Like you and I were like, that's Will
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: Lawrence's tweet, but no one knows who Will Lawrence is
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: or that's his tweet or what the fuck he's talking about.
• 40:38
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 40:38
  Speaker 5: Like, look, he's, he is trying to put a, um, Like,
• 40:43
  Speaker 5: I think every vice president who's running probably has to
• 40:45
  Speaker 5: look at the president and be like, okay, what don't
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: people like, even in my party, about the president that
• 40:49
  Speaker 5: I served with? And like, what's my, how am I
• 40:51
  Speaker 5: going to differentiate myself?
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: Mostly.
• 40:54
  Speaker 5: Not everyone does that, apparently.
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: Not everyone does that, but the successful ones.
• 40:59
  Speaker 5: And clearly in this speech, you could tell that J.D. Vance, like,
• 41:02
  Speaker 5: there's so much talk about family and kids. And he wants, like,
• 41:05
  Speaker 5: a family-friendly MAGA version. And that's what he's going to
• 41:10
  Speaker 5: try to put forward.
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: It's very, like.
• 41:12
  Speaker 5: National conservatism, he wants to, like, sand the rough edges
• 41:15
  Speaker 5: off that. He doesn't want it to appear too mean. But, like,
• 41:19
  Speaker 5: if he does have any kind of belief, it is
• 41:22
  Speaker 5: the belief that he has espoused many times in speeches
• 41:26
  Speaker 5: that we probably won't hear again where he talks about, like,
• 41:28
  Speaker 5: it's blood and soil nationalism. Like, that is what he
• 41:32
  Speaker 5: believes if he believes anything. And I think he's smart
• 41:34
  Speaker 5: enough to know that that doesn't wear well with the
• 41:36
  Speaker 5: general electorate at all. And so he's trying to sand
• 41:40
  Speaker 5: down the rough edges on it, but it's just, I don't,
• 41:43
  Speaker 5: it's going to be hard for him.
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: It's going to be hard, but we'll see.
• 41:46
  Speaker 5: Did you see Marco Rubio today asked about his potential
• 41:51
  Speaker 5: plans to run for president in 2028? And he said, quote,
• 41:54
  Speaker 5: I don't know what the future holds, but I have
• 41:56
  Speaker 5: no plans at this time.
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: At this time.
• 42:01
  Speaker 5: Did you take anything from at this time or do
• 42:02
  Speaker 5: you think it's just reading too much into it?
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: No, I think I took it very specifically at this time.
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: meaning he's keeping the door open.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:11
  Speaker 5: It's going to be interesting to see how that friendship
• 42:12
  Speaker 5: with Vance, that close friendship, wears over time and then
• 42:15
  Speaker 5: in the coming months.
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: If we can get a Vance, Rubio, Hegsap, Ted Cruz primary.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: Oh my God.
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: Because Ted Cruz is deadly serious and he's talking. Ted
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: Cruz is running. He hates Vance.
• 42:26
  Speaker 5: You know, we may get, wow, I'm trying to think
• 42:28
  Speaker 5: of that. That's quite a stage. I don't think Rubio
• 42:31
  Speaker 5: and Vance both run together, right?
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: My suspicion is Rubio does not run. But Vance obviously
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: runs and maybe Cruz runs too.
• 42:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's probably right. Anyway, we have enough
• 42:41
  Speaker 5: time to talk about that later. You're hearing this on
• 42:44
  Speaker 5: the 25th anniversary of the 9-11 attacks. And while Republicans
• 42:48
  Speaker 5: chose not to align the convention with the day itself,
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: the people on stage and on Fox News did take
• 42:54
  Speaker 5: the opportunity to paint Democrats as terrorist sympathizers, particularly Muslim
• 42:58
  Speaker 5: Democrats like Abdul El-Sayed and Zoran Mamdani.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: Let's watch. I know what they're capable of.
• 43:04
  Speaker 12: And I know what happens when America becomes afraid to
• 43:08
  Speaker 12: call evil by its name. September 11th isn't something that
• 43:12
  Speaker 12: we deserved, no matter what.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: Abdul's buddies say.
• 43:16
  Speaker 12: Abdul is funding his campaign with money from terrorist groups
• 43:20
  Speaker 12: like the Muslim Brotherhood.
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: He wants to represent Palestine.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: I want to represent Michigan.
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: And on 9-11, could anyone have imagined that Comrade Mondami
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: would be the mayor of New York.
• 43:35
  Speaker 10: When he goes down to 9-11, I hate to even
• 43:39
  Speaker 10: say this, Laura, but you know, it's a message to
• 43:42
  Speaker 10: Osama bin Laden that, look, we conquered New York.
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: It's going to be a tough message to deliver.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of.
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: To Osama bin Laden.
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: There's a lot of questions about what's going on there.
• 43:53
  Speaker 5: Um, one, that crazy woman was a, is a city
• 43:56
  Speaker 5: council woman in New York. So that's not just official.
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: That's cool. That's not just a fucking, you know, random.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: I wish I had seen that clip a thousand times
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: and it wasn't until you told me that she was
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: an elected official paid for with taxpayer dollars.
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: People in New York have voted for her. Some, she
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: has received some votes from people.
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: There's just like, when we are afraid to call evil
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: by its name, is his name evil? Is that what
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: Mike Rogers is saying? Or have we stopped saying evil now? Like,
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: I'm not sure what he, what, what is going on there?
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: it is true that no one on September 11, 2001
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: could have imagined Montani would be mayor because he was nine.
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: So that was surprising.
• 44:33
  Speaker 5: I mean, what do you make of all of this?
• 44:35
  Speaker 5: This has been a real drumbeat that has now crescendoed
• 44:39
  Speaker 5: here on the anniversary of 9-11.
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: Mostly it's about Abdul in Michigan. I mean, they're still
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: doing it.
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: It's about Assan Piker is what it's about.
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: It's about Assan Piker.
• 44:47
  Speaker 5: Well, I think it's mostly about Abdul, but it's trying
• 44:51
  Speaker 5: to They're using Hasan Piker as the easiest way to
• 44:54
  Speaker 5: try to stop Abdul from winning.
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: I just am not sure. Fox has been doing this
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: for 25 years now. There's been this sense that after 9-11,
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: the way to win was to portray Democrats as on
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: the side of Al-Qaeda. And that worked in 2002. It
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: worked in 2004. It stopped working in 2006. It hasn't
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: really worked since then. And with every passing year, it's
• 45:20
  Speaker 4: less effective. And I just, there are a lot of
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: things that they were going to do. Usually I'm not,
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: that is just pure anti-Muslim bigotry. Nothing else. Like it's
• 45:31
  Speaker 4: just incredibly offensive and just openly racist in every way,
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: shape or form. The, there are a lot of things
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: they're going to do to try to paint Abdul outside
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: of sort of the mainstream American political conversation. All, a
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: lot of it is going to be racist. It is
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: going to be quite offensive and, I really don't think
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: the one thing that Hassan Piker said, which he has
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: apologized for about 9-11, is a particularly effective attack.
• 45:55
  Speaker 5: Do you think it's even more effective when they spent
• 46:00
  Speaker 5: a lot of time at the convention showing giant photos
• 46:03
  Speaker 5: of Hassan and Espito?
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: I don't know how that would affect the Republicans. I'd
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: like to see their web browsers.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:17
  Speaker 6: All right.
• 46:18
  Speaker 5: One last topic to touch on here reluctantly. On Wednesday evening,
• 46:21
  Speaker 5: John Fetterman made a surprise appearance by video to introduce
• 46:24
  Speaker 5: his fellow Pennsylvania Senator Dave McCormick.
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: Let's watch.
• 46:29
  Speaker 9: Republicans in Dallas. Yes, I'm Senator John Fetterman, Pennsylvania. Yes,
• 46:34
  Speaker 9: I'm a Democrat. Why am I here talking to you today? Because, well,
• 46:39
  Speaker 9: I'm a common sense Democrat. I'm always going to stand
• 46:42
  Speaker 9: with America. I'm always going to reject the extremes and
• 46:46
  Speaker 9: socialism and that anti-American way of life. I have this
• 46:50
  Speaker 9: opportunity to introduce this great American, a great senator. And yes,
• 46:55
  Speaker 9: he's in a different party, but I'm proud to count
• 46:58
  Speaker 9: him as my great friend.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: So for everybody in Dallas, I'm here to introduce Dave McCormick.
• 47:06
  Speaker 5: Compelling piece of content, regardless of how you feel about
• 47:10
  Speaker 5: his appearance. So this got a lot of attention. Of course,
• 47:14
  Speaker 5: Democrats were already fuming at Fetterman for cozying up to Republicans.
• 47:17
  Speaker 5: Lovett and I talked about this on YouTube on Thursday,
• 47:20
  Speaker 5: but would you like to weigh in.
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: On this?
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: I find it very irksome that he did this. I
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: think that the fact that John Fetterman today is the
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: exact opposite of what John Fetterman ran on only four
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: years ago. And that is incredibly frustrating, and it is
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: a real disservice and betrayal to the voters of Pennsylvania.
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: But people, I'm going to let you in on a secret.
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: We have one goal and one goal only. Keep John
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: Fetterman in this party for the next two years until
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: he loses his primary in 2028, which he will certainly
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: lose because his approval rating among Democrats is like 45
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: points underwater. So it sucks. It is annoying. He still
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: votes with us 90% of the time. He's mostly just
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: trolling us all of the time by going on Fox
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: News and doing very, very annoying things. And obviously the
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: things he has said about Israel and about people who
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: are good faith critics of Israel are incredibly offensive and terrible.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: But we're stuck. We're stuck with John Fetterman for two years.
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: Because if he leaves, it makes it that much harder
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: to get the Senate majority.
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought it was irksome.
• 48:24
  Speaker 5: And then I saw he put out a statement right
• 48:27
  Speaker 5: afterwards and said, I'm still a Democrat. And if we win,
• 48:32
  Speaker 5: and take back the Senate, I will be the 51st
• 48:34
  Speaker 5: vote for Democrats like I promised I would be, or
• 48:37
  Speaker 5: something to that effect. And so, like, now, he could
• 48:41
  Speaker 5: change his mind, of course, but if that's where he
• 48:44
  Speaker 5: is right now, then that's where he is right now. And,
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: you know, yelling about it, flipping out about it, like,
• 48:54
  Speaker 5: what is it going to do?
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: What is the purpose? What is the usefulness of this?
• 48:59
  Speaker 4: Each individual person can be mad and should be mad,
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: particularly if you're a voter in Pennsylvania, should be mad.
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: The people of power and influence in the party who
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: are like, get out of the party, not helpful. We
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: need him in the party, unfortunately.
• 49:13
  Speaker 6: No.
• 49:13
  Speaker 5: And, and the reason we need him is, I said
• 49:16
  Speaker 5: this before, but say it again. Um, like, having him
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: as the 51st vote, if that's what he is, could
• 49:26
  Speaker 5: be the difference between, you know, replacing Sam Alito or
• 49:30
  Speaker 5: Clarence Thomas or God knows someone else with Eileen Cannon
• 49:35
  Speaker 5: for 40 years on the Supreme Court or not. So
• 49:39
  Speaker 5: it's like, you know, and yeah, he has broken, he
• 49:42
  Speaker 5: has voted to confirm a lot of Trump's appointees, cabinet officials.
• 49:47
  Speaker 5: He's broken with the Democrats on some like government shutdown stuff.
• 49:51
  Speaker 5: But judges, 42 out of 46 Trump judges, he has
• 49:56
  Speaker 5: voted against. He has not voted for a single appellate
• 49:59
  Speaker 5: court judge from Donald Trump. So even if it's just
• 50:04
  Speaker 5: judges that he's voting with Democrats on and just voting
• 50:07
  Speaker 5: with Democrats to make a Democratic majority leader, leader of
• 50:11
  Speaker 5: the Senate. That's good enough till 2028. It is good enough.
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: It's not fun, but it's what we got.
• 50:17
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 50:17
  Speaker 5: All right, Dan, before we go, the Republican convention did
• 50:21
  Speaker 5: wrap up with Trump's very similar condensed version of his
• 50:26
  Speaker 5: Wednesday night speech given again on Thursday night.
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: There was one new part that we should leave you
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: all with. Let's take a watch.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: Please raise your right hand.
• 50:38
  Speaker 6: I pledge to the greatest president in the history of
• 50:44
  Speaker 6: the United States that loves us so much he can't
• 50:53
  Speaker 6: even breathe.
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: That I will go out with my family, my friends.
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: I'll do it anyway. I don't care if I'm registered
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: or not.
• 51:05
  Speaker 9: I'm going to.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: Try and cheat like hell like they do.
• 51:08
  Speaker 6: And we are going to vote on November 3rd or
• 51:12
  Speaker 6: we are going to vote before that.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: You know what happens if you don't vote? You go
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: to hell.
• 51:19
  Speaker 6: You know that.
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: Take it from that guy. That's what I'm taking from him.
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: That's our message to our listeners too. Go vote.
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: Go vote. Do register. But go vote.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, no cheating.
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: I don't think you go to hell if you don't vote.
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: No, I don't think so either. But go vote. Go vote.
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 51:40
  Speaker 5: When we come back, Republican candidate for governor of California,
• 51:43
  Speaker 5: Steve Hilton. Pod Save America is brought to you by Built.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: Here's a question.
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  Speaker 10: Are you getting rewarded for paying your rent or mortgage
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  Speaker 10: Download the Built app and join the membership for where
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  Speaker 10: you live at joinbuilt.com slash crooked. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T dot com
• 52:50
  Speaker 10: slash crooked. Use our link so they know we sent you.
• 52:57
  Speaker 10: He's the Republican nominee for governor in the state of California.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: Steve Hilton, welcome to The Pod. It's great to be here.
• 53:03
  Speaker 10: So I want to start by saying that I appreciate
• 53:05
  Speaker 10: that you reached out to the show to come and
• 53:07
  Speaker 10: talk to us. I give you a lot of credit,
• 53:09
  Speaker 10: especially when we have not been able to book Democratic
• 53:13
  Speaker 10: candidate Javier Becerra. Is that right? We tried in the primary.
• 53:18
  Speaker 10: We are still trying. I believe we have not heard
• 53:21
  Speaker 10: back from our most recent candidate.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: Uh, uh, inquiry. Well, maybe he'll do it. Maybe the
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: best service I can give you is like, finally, you'll
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: get Avia now that I'm, I think it's going to work.
• 53:31
  Speaker 10: Actually, I actually do. Now I want to start with this.
• 53:34
  Speaker 10: What is your pitch to democratic voters in this state?
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:38
  Speaker 10: Maybe frustrated with democratic governance here, but cannot imagine voting
• 53:42
  Speaker 10: for a candidate endorsed by Donald Trump.
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: I totally get that. Just to be clear. Um, I'm
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: on the road the whole time in California, uh, And
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: we're doing events up and down the state, town halls,
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: hundreds of them now. And increasingly, Democrats are coming. And
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: they ask questions about that. And so I really understand.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Most of my friends are Democrats. And most of my life, actually,
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: my friends have been on the other side of the
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: political divide. So I totally get it. That's the first point.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: And it's a totally reasonable question. And I think that
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: the simple answer for me is that I'm not First
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: of all, I'm running for governor, not him. Secondly, I'm
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: not an ideologue. I'm not particularly tribal, actually, when it
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: comes to politics. Most of my career has been in business.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: I'm a pragmatic, kind of problem-solving kind of person. We
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: can all see things are going wrong in California. I
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: just want to fix what's wrong about this beautiful state
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: that's so amazing in so many ways. But we can
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: all see it's frustratingly off track. Everything's so expensive. We
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: can get into that. But you're not going to get
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: someone who's trying to tell you how to live or
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: what to do or impose any kind of worldview in
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: that sense. You're just going to get someone who wants
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: to make it easier to live, to run a business,
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: do something about some of the visible problems we have
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: like homelessness. That's the pitch, really. You don't have to.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: You can still be anti-Trump, as many millions of Democrats
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: in California are strongly so, and vote for me. You
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: don't have to change your party. You don't have to
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: change your politics. You just have to vote for change
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: in this election. And there's one last thing I'll say,
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: which is a very important way. I mean, you hear
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: the word change, you know, better than most in elections
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: the whole time. Actually in this, in this instance in California,
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: there's another word that I think is just as important
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: and that is balance. So we've had 16 years now
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: where one party has been running everything. And I just
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: think most people would agree that's not healthy to, whoever
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: it is, in history, when you've got that kind of
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: political dominance by one party, whether that's right or left,
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: it ends badly. And I just think having a bit
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: of balance in the mix, it's very likely that not
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: just that Democrats will control the legislature after this year's elections,
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: but they'll continue to have a supermajority. So we're just
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: talking about, this is not a MAGA takeover of California.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: This is just a bit of common sense balance in
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: the mix.
• 56:11
  Speaker 10: So I think that for me, and I assume for
• 56:14
  Speaker 10: a lot of others, to be open to voting for
• 56:17
  Speaker 10: someone who's not just endorsed by Trump, but supports, you
• 56:20
  Speaker 10: continue to support Donald Trump.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: You believe he's a good president? No, I don't agree
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: with everything he's done.
• 56:24
  Speaker 9: Not at all.
• 56:25
  Speaker 10: But do you support Donald Trump right now as you're
• 56:27
  Speaker 10: sitting here at this table?
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: Well, would I vote for him again? I mean, he's
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: not on the ballot. I haven't really thought about that
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: as a sort of.
• 56:34
  Speaker 10: You don't know right now. I'm saying, do you support
• 56:36
  Speaker 10: Donald Trump? Donald Trump is the current president.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: Do you support him? I think that's too broad of
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: a question. I disagree with a lot of the things
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: that he's doing. I think that, again, I think these
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: are too broad. I think it comes to specific things.
• 56:49
  Speaker 10: And that's fine, but the reason I'm pushing on that,
• 56:51
  Speaker 10: I'm sorry, I want to move off of Trump, but
• 56:55
  Speaker 10: I think the problem, right, is that it'd be nice
• 56:59
  Speaker 10: if we could separate what's happening in Washington, what's happening here,
• 57:02
  Speaker 10: but I think it matters, right, because there's a threshold
• 57:05
  Speaker 10: question for people who may be bothered by by what
• 57:08
  Speaker 10: they see as kind of feckless misrule that we have
• 57:11
  Speaker 10: in California.
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: I am, right?
• 57:13
  Speaker 10: But I worry, right, that, like, I would love to
• 57:17
  Speaker 10: vote for a change, right? I worry that Javier Becerra
• 57:20
  Speaker 10: doesn't represent that change. But there's threshold moral questions that
• 57:23
  Speaker 10: anyone I could possibly support would have to pass, and
• 57:26
  Speaker 10: I want to challenge you as to whether or not
• 57:27
  Speaker 10: you pass those. That's why I'm asking this.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: So ask me specifics.
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: Let's do it.
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: What are you worried about?
• 57:31
  Speaker 10: So you said recently that Joe Biden won the 2020 election.
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: Yes. Right?
• 57:38
  Speaker 10: However, in 2020, you said it wasn't a fair election
• 57:42
  Speaker 10: right after. You said that you wanted McConnell to have
• 57:46
  Speaker 10: a full Senate investigation into the 2020 election to be
• 57:50
  Speaker 10: majority leader. You said the FBI directly interfered in the
• 57:52
  Speaker 10: 2020 election. As recently as May, you refused to answer
• 57:56
  Speaker 10: as to whether Biden won. Now, I understand why you
• 57:59
  Speaker 10: would say now, and I'm glad in July you did
• 58:01
  Speaker 10: say Joe Biden won the election.
• 58:03
  Speaker 11: Fine.
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: I always said that, by the way. That May thing
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: is weird. I know exactly what you're talking about. It
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: was a classic kind of on-the-campaign-trail thing. I was in...
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: We were on the road, and it was... I think
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: you're talking about the MSNBC... That was, yes. Exactly. And
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: I've always said that. I've always given that answer. I've
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: never maintained anything. I've never said anything different. And so...
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: they kept going on about it. I said, I've already
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: said it. I've said it. So I don't think I've ever...
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: You haven't evolved on this issue. Not on that one. Now,
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: the other thing, on the who won the election, no,
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: I've never believed anything different. On those specific things, like
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: immediately after the election, when there was a lot of
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: conversation about what happened and so on, everyone was saying
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: what I was saying then, which is, Okay, let's say
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: Biden was saying that. Mitt Romney was saying that. What
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: were they saying? Everyone was saying what? That we should
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: have a, you know, that questions have been raised about
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: the election. We've got to make sure everyone's, you know,
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: those questions are put to rest and properly investigated. This
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: is where I think you're very smooth. No, but that's
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: what Romney and Biden were saying. Very different. than what
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: you were saying.
• 59:10
  Speaker 10: You were saying that the election is in dispute, that
• 59:13
  Speaker 10: America is becoming a banana republic. You've recently said our
• 59:16
  Speaker 10: electoral system is a joke.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: Well, it is in California. Even the New York Times
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: said that. We take too long to count our ballots.
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: Agreed.
• 59:24
  Speaker 10: But what I'm hearing, you're saying that, oh, I always
• 59:28
  Speaker 10: believed that Joe Biden won the election. However, there have
• 59:32
  Speaker 10: been times that I've been reluctant to say so. And
• 59:34
  Speaker 10: I support someone who is lying about the outcome of
• 59:38
  Speaker 10: something fundamentally sacred in a democracy. But I believe Donald Trump,
• 59:42
  Speaker 10: I supported Donald Trump's election in 2024, even though- Yeah.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 59:45
  Speaker 10: Even though he denied the results of an election that
• 59:48
  Speaker 10: you're saying Joe Biden won fair and free in a democracy.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: Again, I think we've got to be really precise about it.
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: I think everyone can see that the 2020 election was
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: really messed up. COVID was going on. A large number
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: of last-minute changes were made to the voting system that
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: were done in a bit of a rush, driven by
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: the need to accommodate COVID rules. And people couldn't, you know, like, okay,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: we've got to do mail-in voting because people can't show up.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: All these things were done. But you've also, see, this is.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: What I mean.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: Now I think you're saying... better. I think it was
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: a uniquely messed up election.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 10: But you also said it was because Democrats wanted to
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 10: boost Democratic votes to have an unfair advantage.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: I think the Democrats believed that more mail-in voting would
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: help them. Yes, I still believe that. I think that's what.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 10: And that wasn't because of the sort of a once-in-a-century pandemic.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: You think it was a crass motivation. I think there's
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: no question that they believe. I think they still believe.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: You know, why did Democrats enact ballot harvesting, for example,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: in California and all these different rules, the seven-day counting
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: after election day.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 10: I think that they believe... Because they're postmarked by election day.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: Well, but not necessarily postmarked. You can handwrite it. You know,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: all these things that people just look at, including the
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: New York Times, as I say, and say, look, come on.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: These things just don't pass the smell test in terms
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: of what makes sense for making sure people... You have
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: elections that people have confidence in. We get a result quickly.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: And I think 2020... was a uniquely messed up election.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: And I think that the criticisms I made at the
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: time and still have are totally reasonable. Now, in terms
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: of the outcome, I mean, I've never challenged the outcome.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: I still would reiterate now that I think that there
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: were problems with how those changes were made. They were
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: rushed through. That meant that you had all this kind
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: of swirl of you know, complain and uncertainty and whatever.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: And I think that that's, it was, but I think that's,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: you know, that was 2020. It was the middle of
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: a pandemic. You're trying running an election in the middle
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: of a pandemic. Changes were made to the system. And
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: I think that they were done in a rush and
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: in a way that undermined confidence in the election. I
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: really believe that today.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 10: And so when Donald Trump if questions result in other elections,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 10: you think that is wrong and a different problem.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: I said it in relation to our elections here in California,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: just recently, for example.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 10: But you see, this is someone that is, for Democrats
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 10: like me, we are trying to run a democracy. And
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 10: one of the great important things about a democracy is
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 10: You fight to the end, but you have some forbearance
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 10: that if you lose, you go home and you lick
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 10: your wounds and then you try to fight another day.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump doesn't agree with that, right?
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: And that's morally reprehensible. Okay.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 5: Is it?
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: What? Is it reprehensible? Look. I want to, I am mad. Yes, okay.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 8: Is it?
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: Yes. But this is why, but it matters, right? I
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: speak for, I think that I represent a lot. This
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: is a little bit like the MS Now conversation, which
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: is the reason that I find this conversation, I think,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: I think it's an extreme view to take this particular
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: issue and make it the determinant of an assessment about
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: who you are and what you believe. I think it's
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: one of many things. There's lots of reprehensible things about
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: what politicians say and do. And so I just don't
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: think it's how I... It's not how I think about stuff,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: where you have a kind of litmus test that this
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: is the one thing where you say, because this or
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: that person... thinks that, says that, whatever. I'm not going
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: to pay any attention to anything else. And I just,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: that's not how I think about it. So I'm reluctant
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: to give these sweeping assessments of things. I disagree with
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: what has been said about the 2020 election. Yeah, I've
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: said that many times. I also disagree with how it
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: was conducted. Both things can be true.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: So you are the son of Hungarian immigrants.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 11: And.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 10: I think you've talked quite movingly about why your family
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 10: left Hungary for the UK and ultimately for the United States.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 4: And you've also talked about what it was like to.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 10: Be detained because you had a problem with your passport
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 10: and there's.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: A problem with, I believe, your son's visa. Oh, yes, yes,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: I remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 10: And I think people would be interested to hear why
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 10: did your family leave Hungary, right? And what are some
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 10: of the ways in which that is reflected in your politics?
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: So there's three people involved, actually. My mother, my father,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: my stepfather also hungarian. My parents divorced when I was young.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: In England, my dad went back to Hungary. I really
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: grew up with my stepfather. And so they came in
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: different ways. My mom came, I don't remember the story now,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: but she was, I believe she was studying English at
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: university in Hungary. And then had an opportunity to go
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: to England for a few months. I think this is right.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: I'll have to check with her after this. And then
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: met my dad, who'd come to Hungary via Australia, where
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: he went. He was a famous sports guy in Hungary.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: And he was the goalie for the national hockey team,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: played in the Olympics, Winter Olympics. And then when he
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: stopped playing, I remember there's one story that.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: I really remember. I mean, he died when I was
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: much younger as well. But I only spent like vacations
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: with him. But I do remember him telling me that
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: after he stopped playing, he got into business, he had
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: a paint factory. And I just remember that going, I
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: didn't really understand what he meant. He went on and
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: on about how the communists took his paint factory. And
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: he was quite a strident anti-communist and he's quite well known.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: So he left after 1956 when the revolution started. It
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: was crushed by the Soviet Union, went to Australia with
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: his first wife. They split up. He went to England.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: And so they all came slightly different ways. I think
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: then they met in London working in, I think they
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: were both working in the restaurant at Heathrow Airport. Then
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: my stepfather grew up in a village in a rural
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: setting in the western side of Hungary. And then his
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: story is different as well. So he was 14 years
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: old and he and his brother and his classmates heard
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: on the radio that that the Russians were coming. I
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: remember him saying that phrase. And then they just ran.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: They were not far from the border with Austria, and
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: they ran. And they literally climbed barbed wire fences and whatever.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: And he says, I mean, again, he probably doesn't know
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: for sure, but he says that many of them were
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: killed in the attempt, you know, getting out. And he
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: ended up with his brother in a refugee camp in Austria.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: So they all had a slightly different pathway.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 10: So on immigration, you have sort of drawn, I think,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 10: a right distinction between illegal and legal immigration. And you've
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 10: basically said some version of, in many ways, many times,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 10: that there ought to be more cooperation with immigrants. ICE
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 10: because of the lack of cooperation and what leads to
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 10: this sort of the chaos and the targeting of people
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 10: who are nonviolent offenders.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: Am I summarizing this correctly? Yeah, and the general kind
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: of antagonistic, toxic brew of hostility.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 10: So the problem I have when you say that is
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 10: it would be nice if that were true, but California
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 10: may be attacked by Republicans for being a sanctuary state,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 10: but The sheriffs and police still notify ICE about removals.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Gavin makes that point.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 10: And ICE can still enforce removal orders here. And there
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 10: doesn't seem to be a difference between cooperative and non-cooperative states.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 10: So if you're in Florida or Texas, huge number of deportations,
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 10: same as in other places. We're still hitting about something
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 10: in the 70s, percent of which are sort of nonviolent
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 10: offenders or no convictions, right?
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: 5% violent.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 10: And that's true regardless of the level of cooperation. The
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 10: cooperation just seems to increase the number of deportations, right?
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 10: And if you accept that as true, would that change
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 10: how you think about the role of California's governor?
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: I think the number one thing I believe is that
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: we just got to lower the temperature. We've got to
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: find ways of handling this better. And I think there
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: are examples in the past of where this was handled better. Clearly,
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: everyone is grappling with a situation where you've had 50
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: years of terrible broken immigration policy in loads of different ways.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: And so that's just hard. You know, you're dealing with
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: a difficult problem because you've got a legacy of an
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: unaddressed problem that everyone just passed the buck for years.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: And so I think that it's not easy. None of
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: it's easy. But I think that the way it's been so,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: you know, the confrontation and the demonization and and all
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: this rhetoric, I think it makes it even harder to
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: deal with a hard problem. So my number one thing is,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: can we just lower the temperature a bit and sit
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: down and try and figure out how we handle this?
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: First of all, of course, as everyone knows, federal immigration policy,
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: you don't affect that. The question for the governor is like,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: how do you respond here? And... that's my goal. It's like,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: let's find a way to work together, which Gavin already
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: says he is doing. And if you look at California's
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: sanctuary state law, SB 54, passed in 2017, there's a
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: whole section in there, which I've read, a long section,
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: which lists all the different areas where you can have,
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: at the discretion of the state, cooperation with federal immigration enforcement.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: In fact, California's sanctuary state law was criticized by the
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: left for being too accommodating on that front. But see,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: this is the thing.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 10: It doesn't really just boil down to cooperation. It's, well,
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 10: what kind of immigration enforcement would you support as.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 4: Governor, right?
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: Because whether... No, I don't like at all, if this
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: is what you're getting at, just be direct about it.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: I really don't want to see raids into communities, into workplaces,
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: any of that. I hate to see that. So you
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: oppose that? Well, I don't... Yes, okay, I oppose it,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: but there's nothing I can do about it because you're
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: not in charge of it.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 13: Well, you can decide whether to coordinate, whether to deploy
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 13: state resources to coordinate in those enforcement actions, or you
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 13: can do what California has done and said, we're not
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 13: going to break the law, but no, we're not going
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 13: to participate in these actions.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: And then that is described as a lack.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 10: Of cooperation, which leads to the deployment of federal agents
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 10: in a big kind of sweep.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I know Tom Homan well. I've known him
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: for years. And his argument, you can challenge it, but
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: his argument is that we wouldn't need to do those
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: kinds of enforcement actions if we had more direct cooperation.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: And it's not true, actually, that the cooperation is as
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: Gavin would want you to have it because regularly in
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: California we see stories where that hasn't happened. where people who,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: and we just saw a case in the Bay Area
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: just the other week, a brutal murder of an elderly
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: gentleman in the community who was just life and soul
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: of the community, his family bereft, the community is bereft
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: by someone who everyone watching and listening would agree should
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: not be in the country, an illegal immigrant who'd committed
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: multiple violent crimes and was let out by a judge
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: and was in the community. That shouldn't have happened. And
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: so I hear what they say that, well, actually, this
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: is all bullshit from the Trump administration because we do
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: cooperate on the cases where people agree, which is the
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: violent criminals. That isn't the case because you see stories regularly.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: Another one just this week or last week where you
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: see examples of that not happening in California.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 10: Let's say those cases are wrong, but cooperation outside of
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 10: those cases. Why would the lack of agreement between California
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 10: and the federal government mean you need to do enforcement
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 10: actions at Home Depots and And work sites and all
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 10: the rest.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: Because they're looking for people that they should have been
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: able to be, that they wouldn't need to look for
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: because they would have been handed over by California state
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: and local law enforcement. That's the argument.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 10: And so you would, would you sort of deploy state
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 10: resources as governor to support enforcement operations?
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: Because here's the problem, right?
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 10: Regardless of whether you would go after a criminal.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to see them. I don't like seeing...
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: And I would want to not have in California those
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: kinds of operations.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 3: Correct.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. And so what would I actually do? I would
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: get on the phone with Tom, who I know, and say, right,
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: how are we going to handle this? Because I don't
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: want to see that. Californians don't want to see that.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: You know that. It's obvious that Californians don't want to
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: see that. you've got a job to do, I've got
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: a job to do. How are we going to do
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: this in a calm and reasonable way? That's what I
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: would actually do.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 10: Right, and then the current policy is to pursue a
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 10: level of deportations that requires going after non-criminals. You can't
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 10: hit the numbers that they want to hit.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: But I don't know if that's still the case. I
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: totally accept that there's been a shift. The numbers, the
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: data is clear that in the early period of this
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: Trump administration period, balance was mainly the kinds of people
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: that the vast majority of California's Americans would accept shouldn't
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: be here. And then that shifted, and the balance has
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: gone in favor of those who aren't in that category.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: But I sense that it's going back in that direction.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: You sense it? Yes, because of the response to what
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: happened in Minnesota, their response to what happened in Maine. Well,
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: they turned.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 4: Down the public temperature for sure.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 10: I don't think there's any evidence to suggest they've changed
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 10: their enforcement priorities. They've certainly done less of the Christy Noem,
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 10: Bovino kind of whatever, shock and awe. I'm glad that's gone.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 10: But they have not replaced that with a less draconian
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 10: overall policy and goal.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: Again, my response would be to sit down and say, right,
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: what's the deal here? What are you doing In California,
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: we're the biggest state with the highest population, very large
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: immigrant population. What's the plan? And just tell me what
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: you're trying to do. And I'm the governor and I
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: want to make sure that we don't have these scenes
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: and we don't have this confrontation. And yeah, we don't
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: have those kinds of raids. I don't want to see that.
• 1:15:14
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  Speaker 10: That's policygenius.com slash crooked. So, if you were the governor,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 10: a lot of what you'd want to do, the tax
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 10: break for people making under $ 150, is that the number?
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: It's not a tax break. It's no state income tax.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 10: And a number of other changes. You'd have to work
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 10: with the legislature. Have you thought about how you would
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 10: do that? How you would approach that?
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's a huge question because I mean, there's
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: basically two questions, which is, how are you going to win?
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: And I do appreciate, like you said, you appreciated me
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: being here. I appreciate you having, because I'm, you know,
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: you're probably sitting there thinking, why am I talking to
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: this guy? He's got no chance of winning. But I
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: think that there is a shot. I know it's an
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: uphill battle, but I think that there's a level of frustration.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: And I think we can do this. But the second
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: big question is, well, what can you get done in
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: the context of a legislature that's pretty likely to continue
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: to have a Democrat supermajority. And the first point I'd
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: make is that I'm used to that, right? People may
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: know me from TV or whatever, and I obviously is
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: a candidate. But while most of my career has actually
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: been in business, running small businesses, doing startups and whatever,
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: I did spend some time working in the government in
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: the UK. I was senior advisor to the prime minister,
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: David Cameron. He's a conservative prime minister, but it was
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: a coalition government. It was two parties. It was the
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: conservative party, the liberal Democrats. And I helped I was
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: part of the team that negotiated the coalition agreement. I
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: shared an office in 10 Downing Street with my opposite
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: number from another party, from the Liberal Democrats. And so actually, temperamentally,
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: I think that they'll find when I get there that
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: I'm perhaps not the caricature that they've heard about and
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: I'm easy and constructive to work with. That's the first point. Attitudinally,
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to working with them. The French call
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: it cohabitation. It's normal. It's not that unusual in other systems.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: The second point, in Washington, it's not unusual. You've had
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: examples of presidents and legislatures of different parties. So it's
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: just unusual in California. The second point is that in
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: the primary here in California for governor, there were many
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: examples where some of the other, not the ones that made,
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: not necessarily Becerra, but some of the others, we constantly
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: were agreeing with each other. I was constantly agreeing with
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: Matt Mahan on housing policy, for example. Katie Porter actually
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: said at one of the debates we had that she
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: adopted my tax plan. Now, just to be clear, then
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: it was your first hundred grand tax-free. Now, one of
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: the points of feedback we got in the primary was
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: that given how expensive everything is in California, the fact
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: that in many counties now, the official level for being
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: low income is 100 grand or higher. We raised it
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: to 150 and reduced another, the flat rate tax above
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: that to make the math work. But, you know, Katie
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: Porter agreed that we've got to, you know, the quickest
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: way to get more money in people's pockets, particularly working
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: class people who are just paying 9.3% income tax, that's
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: higher than the top rate in most states, is to
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: is to eliminate them from state income tax altogether. Katie
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: Porter agreed with that principle. And so I think that
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: actually there will be things where we can work together.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: The other point is that you do run the executive
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: branch and it doesn't mean you can do everything, but
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: on the regulatory front, there's a lot you can do
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: through appointments and giving you direction to some of these
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: agencies that are making everything so expensive and complicated in California.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 10: Are there any specific Newsom executive orders on say, abortion
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 10: access that you would repeal?
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: No, there'll be no change to any of that.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 10: And you support, would you be, there's obviously the looming
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 10: threat of the Trump administration trying to crack down on
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 10: access to abortion, abortion care.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's in the California, not in California, because
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: it's in the state constitution. I mean, that was passed
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: by referendum, very overwhelmingly.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 10: Right, but there's all kinds of mechanisms the federal government
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 10: can use to try to claim certain Medicaid funding, can't
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 10: go towards health providers that provide abortion care or family planning.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 10: Would you say clearly that you will stand up to
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 10: the Trump administration to protect the access to abortion in
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 10: California if they try to undermine it?
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, no, but I'm not sure. Yeah, in principle, yeah.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, I haven't seen the specific things you're talking about. And.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 10: do you support the right of Californians to make decisions
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 10: about gender-affirming care?
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: Adults, yes, not children. So you don't, if a parent and.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 10: A doctor and a teenager come to a difficult decision
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 10: that a transition is in their best interest, you believe
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 10: the state can stop that?
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: So I think that the most important work that's been
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: done on this was actually in the UK in the
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: National Health Service. a model that Democrats, well, certainly on
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: the left, want to see here, universal health care, taxpayer-funded,
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: Medicare for all. And it was the longest study, the
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: most detailed and in-depth study. It's the Cass Review, two
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: years plus, because there's a lot of concern about it
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: in the UK. And Hilary Cash is a very respected
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: doctor in the field. And that report is very thorough
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: and impressive. And it says very clearly and strongly, and
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: this is now the policy in the UK with the
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: National Health Service, that up for children, gender dysphoria should
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: be treated through therapy and so on, but not through
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: irreversible surgical procedures. That's the policy now in the UK,
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: and I think that's right.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 10: So regardless of what the sort of, that's a policy
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 10: around access to state-funded care, right?
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, in the UK, yes. Right.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 10: And so what I'm saying is in the United States,
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 10: where we have a different sort of sense of freedom, right?
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 10: In part, that's why people oppose universal healthcare. They don't
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 10: want the government making those kinds of decisions. You would
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 10: say that regardless of who's paying for it, do you
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 10: believe doctors, parents have the right to make these decisions
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 10: or can the state come in and tell them the
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 10: kind of care they can't provide.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: Just to take an extreme example, freedom is not unconstrained.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 3: Of course.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: It's not a free-for-all.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 10: But there's obviously, you understand, there's a place of disagreement.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 3: Of course.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: We have many policies and laws protecting children, including protecting
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: them from things their parents might want to do to
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: them or with them.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 10: Of course.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: This falls to that category for you. It does for me, yes.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 10: If you were governor, would you have signed or vetoed
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 10: SB 79- for housing on transit. Because I actually don't,
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 10: I can't find you having a clear position on the law.
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: You would have signed it. I was strongly against it.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: I would not have signed it, and I campaigned against it.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: You would have vetoed it. Yeah.
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 10: You don't believe in building more, in enforcing states that are,
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 10: enforcing municipalities that are refusing to approve more housing at
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 10: a time when we have a massive housing shortage.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: You would not support... forcing them to do. No. So
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: just to be clear, what, look, we got to build more.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: I just did a speech at the Commonwealth club in
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: San Francisco a couple of weeks ago called a new
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: decade of building. Um, and we absolutely have to build
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: more because we have the highest housing costs in the
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: country and the lowest home ownership is absolute crisis. But
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: I think right now the attitude to that and S
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: and this bill for 17, I falls into exactly what
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: we've seen. So the Turner Center in Berkeley, the real
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: source of expertise on housing in California, this is what I,
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: it's actually the first issue that got me involved in
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: this whole era of politics in California. I didn't intend
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: it to run for governor, but I could see that
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: this was such a massive issue. It's the number one
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: reason people are leaving California, the housing costs. And so
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: I worked on a ballot initiative. This is going back
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: four years or so now. And the components of it
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: were to cap developer, I don't need to go into
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: the details, but The point is, although we should because
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: it actually gets into why housing is expensive. I want
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: to answer your question first. At that time, this is
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: like four years ago, there have been 100 plus bills
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: passed and enacted in the previous five years trying to
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: encourage more housing to be built. And they've barely moved
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: the needle. things like the ADU bill and so on,
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: just all these things.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 10: Well, one of the reasons because of obstinance at the
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 10: local level preventing building, which is why this law was
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 10: meant to address it.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: Exactly. And it won't because what it's got fundamentally the
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: wrong approach, which is that we're trying to, because of
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: this argument about density, I completely disagree with the density argument.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: I think rather than trying, I think we should be
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: expansive and open up building in places where people actually
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: want things to be built. And I traveled all of
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: this state. There are many, many areas where people and
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: communities and councils want to build housing, but they're prevented
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: from doing so because of the density argument, which says
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: the current development boundary is perfect and we can't go
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: any further. Now, if you look at the actual numbers
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 2: on that, the proportion of our land area in California
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: that's developed at all is about 6%. In terms of
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: where that puts us, Nationally, we're about the middle, we're
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: about sort of 20th, something like that. So we are
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: not a, we're already pretty dense in terms of the small,
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: the relatively small proportion of our land mass that's actually developed.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: There's so much space that we could use to build
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: the housing. Well, I've said, I've said, I want to
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: see new towns and cities built. I'm a strong supporter
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: of California forever, for example. And that would mean we
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 2: could build on a much greater scale, much more quickly,
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: including the kind of housing that people want, especially when
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: they want to start and raise a family, which is
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: single-family homes. That's what actually the research shows people want.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: And therefore, this attitude of saying the only acceptable form
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: of housing construction is apartment buildings shoved into suburban neighborhoods,
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: I think that's very limiting. But that's not what the
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: law does. But that's what SB 79 says. Well, the law.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 10: Doesn't ban building anywhere else. First of all, part of
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 10: the reason... No, other rules do.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 6: Correct.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 10: But part of the reason there's so much pressure... to
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 10: expand the footprint of where we can build. And I'm
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 10: not against that. It's because we have so thoroughly failed
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 10: to build the housing required in the places where people
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 10: want to work and live.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you say required, but like if you buy
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: a home.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 10: The housing that demand would suggest is warranted by market forces.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: No, I understand. But I mean, if you buy a
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: single family home in a suburban neighborhood, you've made an
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: investment in that particular lifestyle. And to be told that
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: that's just going to be upended... And you're going to
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: have apartment buildings at the end of your street with
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: no provision for extra parking that's going to make, you know,
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: traffic a nightmare that's going to completely change the character
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: of your neighborhood. I disagree with that.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 10: So the law, right, was written to address that insofar
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 10: as cities can make their own plan to avoid violating
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 10: the kind of.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: Character of neighborhood. 79 is very aggressive. It's like within
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: one mile of transit, of any kind of transit, there's
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: a buy right to build up to seven-story apartment building.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 5: Ah.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 10: If cities and states fail, if cities and municipalities fail
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 10: to create plans, I mean, Los Angeles currently has an
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 10: alternate plan, right? Right now, they've voted to do an
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 10: alternate plan to build housing.
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: Karen Bass joins me in opposing this. Of course, doesn't
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: that make you nervous? No, you think you're right. You
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: think that's great. I think good for her because she
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: understands that the infrastructure, you know, everything, you know, but
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: not just transportation, but, you know, utilities and so on.
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: It's a massive expansion of the numbers of people that
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: need to be supported by the existing infrastructure, which can't
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: easily and quickly be adapted. Like you can just throw
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: up an apartment building, but you can't change the whole,
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: you know, traffic plan and utilities and sewage and all that.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: And so I think that there's a massive issue in California,
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: which is the state, at the state level in Sacramento,
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: imposing things on local communities that don't want them. And
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: I disagree with that. Look, one of the main kind
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: of ideas that I've championed throughout my business, actually, as
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: well as in government and in all the things, the
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: books I've written, is the decentralization of power. I've always
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: believed in that. And I strongly believe it in that
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: in this case. So I completely disagree with that whole
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: direction of policy, the RENA numbers, that's the Regional Housing
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: Needs Assessment, the way that they're aggressively going after places
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: that don't build enough. And the simple way I put
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 2: it is, Instead of forcing housing into places that don't
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: want it, let's allow housing to be built in the
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: places that do want it.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 10: Who wants it as it sort of matters, right? The
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 10: vast majority of people in Los Angeles have said very
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 10: clearly they want lots of new housing built. They want
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 10: more apartment buildings. They want more housing of all kinds, single-family,
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 10: multi-unit apartments. They want all that kind of housing built.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 10: The problem, right, is that California has a bunch of
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 10: onerous rules, regulations, systems that prevent that kind of building, right?
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: Well, just prevent any kind of building. Exactly. So while
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: this is one, I think, relatively small part of the
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: story in housing, the bill you talked about, the much
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: bigger point is that we need to make it easier
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: to build affordably. And that does take us back to
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: the ballot initiative that I tried to make happen, which
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: then had two components. Number one is dealing with actually
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 2: Matt Mahan, the mayor of San Jose, who ran for governor,
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: didn't make it into the top two. He and I
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: totally agreed on this, which is impact fees, developer impact fees.
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 2: It's like a hidden tax on housing. The Turner Center
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: in Berkeley estimates that in many cases, up to 20%
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: of the cost of a new home is straight up fees.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: These developer impact fees used to be a couple of grand.
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: Now it's like way more than that. And we need
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: to cap them. That's one part of it. Sorry. People,
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: you know, they look at this housing thing and say, well,
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: it's all about the NIMBYs and the YIMBYs. It's so
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: much more than that. Let me give you a second example,
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: which is... in terms of the CEQA process. CEQA is
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: the California Environmental Quality Act, passed in 1970 or so.
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 2: Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson wrote about it in abundance.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: It's a massive obstacle to getting anything done in California.
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: But one of the main reasons that that's the case
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: is not just the act itself and the rules and
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: process contained within it, but the fact that over the
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 2: years a private right of action has been attached to it.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: So anyone can file a lawsuit using CEQA as a
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: pretext to block anything. 70% of CEQA lawsuits are filed
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 2: to block housing. Most of those are actually filed by
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: unions to negotiate what they call project labor agreements in
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: order to extract benefits like what they call skilled and
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: trained workforce, which means union members only, prevailing wage, which
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: is two or three times market rate wages. So there's
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: a whole kind of system here that has, you know,
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: over the years has built up that makes housing impossible
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: to build affordably. Yes. Agreed.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 10: I don't, and it's an emergency. It's an emergency in
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 10: the state.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, I agree, yeah.
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 10: And yet, this bill that would not stop anyone from
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 10: building single-family units or new towns, which should hopefully begin
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 10: to address the massive shortage that exists inside of places
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 10: like Los Angeles and San Francisco, right, where we have
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 10: not built enough housing to keep up with the population.
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: You're opposing it, and... I don't want to force housing
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: into places that don't want to... But you keep saying that,
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: but we do want it, right? It's a small subset.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 10: Wait, it's a small subset of people that... take advantage
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 10: of these processes, which you're criticizing, to prevent action, right?
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 10: You will have, right now, there's a housing development that's
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 10: meant to be built in Woodland Hills, California, on a
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 10: golf course that's going to be housing, right? That's infill housing, technically.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 10: And they are suing to stop it with the help
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 10: of a city council member because they're claiming it might
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 10: be a habitat for mountain lions.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: Now, that's bullshit, right?
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 10: Now, the state might have to come in, and the
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 10: state may have to come in to force them to
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 10: do this. I think that's right because I think they
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 10: are not serving the city or the state of California. Now,
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 10: that's top down for sure and regrettably so. But to
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 10: address an emergency, don't we need to have the state
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 10: come in and say, hey, take in local concerns, but
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 10: we need to build to prevent California from losing more people.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. It's an emergency, but there's so many.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 2: But I also don't think that we should completely ignore
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 2: the people who live here already and violate their property
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: rights and also the kind of lifestyle that they've invested in.
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: And I think that we don't need to. But see,
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: this is where I think that's wrong. I think it's
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: an antagonistic attitude, which is that the only way we
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: get housing is by sticking it to the Yimby's. I'm
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: not trying to stick it to anybody. And I just
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: don't agree with it. I don't think it's necessary because
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: there's so much space we could be building in California.
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 10: But you look at what happens in a neighborhood, right,
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 10: where they preserve the character of the neighborhood. And then
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 10: the housing prices go up year after year after year.
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 10: And slowly but surely, the middle class and working class
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 10: families that used to live there are priced out and
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 10: wealthier people come in, and the buildings don't change, but
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 10: the character does.
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that also happens when you do the apartment approach,
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: where you've got gentrification through these luxury apartments that get
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: built in working-class neighborhoods, and that whole hipster gentrification process.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: You see it all over the world, by the way,
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 2: not just California. That's another version of it, and that's
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 2: a version of it that the people who are going
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 2: to pro- forcing housing into neighborhoods agree with. And I
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: just think that, I think the whole conversation has just
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: become very ideological. And I think that rather than practical,
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 2: and I just think there's a much simpler solution, which
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 2: is to free up more of our land for building,
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: including in the form, which is what we used to
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 2: do in California when we were like the build, build,
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: build in the suburbs of Southern California, the UC campuses,
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: the state water project, the amazing things we used to build.
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: We can do that again. And that's why I've said
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: a lot that I'm excited about the potential, if we
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: can just get people to buy into it, of new towns,
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: new cities, new university campuses. You know, we've got to
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 2: be much more expansive in our attitude. Right now, it
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 2: feels very narrow and pinched and kind of antagonistic. And
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's necessary to do it like that.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 3: And by the way, fine.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 10: But you understand that building those new developments also puts
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 10: strain on highways and resources.
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: Build new ones. It's crazy to say we can't. I
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: really am. Abundance is what we should be going for.
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 2: But in the same way that we have to improve
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: our infrastructure inside of the cities. Yes, but it's much
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: easier in a greenfield site. It's easier, quicker.
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 9: Look, we can.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: Just like you're doing in Texas. I mean, that's what
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 2: they're doing in Texas. Building. Which is why everyone's moving
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: to Texas.
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 10: There is a lot. Well, yes, there's a lot of
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 10: reasons people are moving to Texas, which I would agree
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 10: with you on. But a lot of times when you
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 10: build a community and highways and roads, the tax base
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 10: ultimately cannot support the long-term maintenance of these kind of
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 10: less dense areas. That's just a fact of what happens
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 10: in some of these sort of.
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: Sprawling communities. I've spent a lot of time in parts
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: of San Diego County, Orange County, Inland Empire, where that
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: kind of development has worked fine. There are trade-offs that
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 2: go along with this.
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 3: That's all.
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 10: You said voters shouldn't decide the election based on who
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 10: they hate in Washington.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: Okay. One role of the governor is filling Senate vacancies.
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. So Adam Schiff is frog march to Guantanamo. Yes.
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 10: There's an unexpected vacancy in the Senate. Would you pledge
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 10: to nominate a Democrat given that the two seats currently
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 10: held were voted for?
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: You would.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 4: I pledge to nominate a Democrat if there's a vacancy.
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, I just think you've got to honor the
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 2: vote that people took.
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 4: Uh you said you're friends with half of trump's cabinet
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 4: which half well.
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: It's okay there's a form of speech i don't know
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: how many in the cabinet i.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 10: Don't know maybe half i don't know so i can
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 10: tell you the names.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: Right so um brook rollins the ag secretary uh pete
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: hexer i know obviously from you know we're colleagues at
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 2: fox bobby kennedy doug bergham um tulsi's no longer was
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: she in the cabinet i don't know if that counts
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: dni technically cabinet anyway she's not there anymore um who
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: else I don't know.
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 10: I'm hearing from a producer there's 16 members of the cast.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: Okay, so maybe half is just slightly. Anyway, the point
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: I'm making is that, oh, Sean Duffy, transportation, big role
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: for us.
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 10: I guess it's a Fox News thing. You have a
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 10: lot of friends there.
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: Well, a couple of them were actually at Fox News,
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: and then I'm just trying to think probably the people I,
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, Bobby Kennedy I've gotten to know since I
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: left Fox, but some of them I probably would have
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: met there and interviewing them and that kind of thing.
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 2: you uh you told you gab but actually i tell
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: you when i met tulsi was when i ran my
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 2: my startup crowd pack which was um a platform for
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: trying to get big money out of politics great job
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 2: by the way i'm kidding i know exactly well you
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: know you got to try these things and um and
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: we met it was at a conference in new orleans
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: a kind of i can't remember what it's called it
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 2: was great um Jennifer Lawrence was the keynote speaker. And
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 2: I met Tulsi and who else? Oh, Mike Gallagher. They
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: had a Democrat and a Republican talking about the problem
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: of money in politics. Yeah, so we go back quite
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: a long way. Have you talked to RFK about vaccines?
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: Not about vaccines, no.
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 4: You would?
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 10: Support, encourage Californians to get vaccinated?
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, I mean, Jay Bhattacharya is a very
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: good friend of mine, NIH director, and I trust what
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: he says about this. And that's basically my position. I
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: have a lot of confidence in his approach. I mean,
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: I really, you know, work, for example, on the COVID vaccine.
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: You know, I was very struck by what he said
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: about that, which seems to be a very common sense position.
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, I support that. Favorite sandwiches in California? Oh, well,
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 2: the thing that comes to mind, because I just had
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: some really good ones lately at the Banh Mi, the
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: Vietnamese one. I was in Little Saigon in San Jose,
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 2: and it was just unbelievably good. I did an amazing
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: event there. It was fun, very crazy event. It was great.
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: And then we had lunch afterwards. And I do love them.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: I love barmy. I've always loved them. But that was
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: particularly good, and that's the one that comes to mind.
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 10: So you talked about how you want to sort of
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 10: change people's caricature of you.
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah.
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know about I want to change. I'm just
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 2: saying I think they'll find that I'm not that.
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 3: I have to say, it.
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 10: Was interesting watching the way you've been campaigning versus the
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 10: way you were as a host. And I'm wondering if
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 10: your caricature of Democrats has changed based on what it's
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 10: been like in California, campaigning sort of outside of a
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 10: cable news environment.
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: So the thing I always, I mean, it's not the
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 2: whole answer, but What I think of when you say
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: that is that, and I say this all the time,
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: because I got a lot of people say, like, what's
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 2: this Fox News thing? You know, we remember you as
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: something completely different when you're in the UK. You were
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: the one that tried to, you know, make the Conservative Party,
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: you know, I mean, I'd never used this term, actually,
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 2: but kind of modernize it and so on. And, you know,
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 2: I wrote a book in 2015 called More Human, Designing
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 2: a World Where People Come First. Actually, the big theme
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: of that is decentralizing power and so on. Um, and
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 2: I would always say, look, I, I, I, what I've
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: never said anything on my Fox news show that I
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: didn't believe or don't believe, but I didn't say everything
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: I believe.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: Um, and so that was, that's how I saw that.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: It's a particular job. Um, and I think that, uh,
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: you know, to be fair, I would be pretty, I don't,
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: I want to say it's not true to even handed,
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 2: but I would attack Republicans on that show. I had
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: a segment on that show called swamp watch. which was really,
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: you know, going after corruption and so on. I got
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: a huge amount of blowback when I would go after Republicans,
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 2: which I did regularly. You know, and prominent ones, you know,
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: Ted Cruz or Kevin McCarthy or whatever. And so I
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: think that, I don't want to talk about anyone else,
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 2: but I definitely made an effort to not be tribal.
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 2: What do you mean about Democrats, though?
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 10: Well, I think there is something about Fox News that,
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 10: which I think exists in many ways to assuage uncomfortable
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 10: thoughts out of people's minds. That's, I think, part of
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 10: its function. And that is especially important when it comes
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 10: to sincere objections to Donald Trump, which is where we started,
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 10: and we can end here. You know, when you were
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 10: talking about Trump's first impeachment... You said of Democrats, they
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 10: hate the president. They hate his supporters. They hate how
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 10: they think. They hate their faith. They even hate their food.
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 10: They hate the fact that this president is delivering concrete results,
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 10: and they're terrified that they can't beat him.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 2: Now, I'm a Democrat.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 10: I think my view on his first impeachment is sincerely
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 10: held and that it was deserved, that even right now he.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: Should be impeached and removed for a.
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 10: Set of high crimes and misdemeanors, corruption, abuse of office.
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 10: That is a sincerely held view. I certainly don't hate
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 10: people's food and religion. In fact, I was just at
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 10: the Minnesota State Fair and I eat like a Republican.
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 10: But I do think it matters because I think what
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 10: that is is trying to tell people that supporting Donald
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 10: Trump doesn't say anything bad about you. That these people
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 10: don't really believe these moral critiques. And then you embrace
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 10: someone immoral. And you're asking us to say, oh, don't
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 10: let that bother you.
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: But it's something.
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 10: uh, fundamentally broken, uh, about a politics that can embrace
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 10: someone as unfit as Donald Trump. And so do you
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 10: appreciate that a lot of Democrats in this state genuinely
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 10: believe he's a threat to this country and you would
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 10: be representing them?
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can, I know because we talk about it.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: I hear it very clearly and I disagree with that. Um,
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 2: like I said, there's many examples, um, starting with 2020,
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 2: but you know, like all the time, um, I'm seeing
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 2: things that, and I think about it very narrowly now
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: in terms of California where I don't agree with that.
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: I really hate that. I wouldn't, I wouldn't, you know,
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: I'd argue strongly against that if I were there now,
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: everything from UC funding to, I don't know, um, this,
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 2: the business with Yosemite, I haven't looked into it, but
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 2: seems pretty bad to me. Um, so I think that
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 2: on a case by case basis, I'm very happy to
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: say that I wouldn't be at all, um, you know,
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 2: reluctant to disagree and challenge them. I hear what you're
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: saying on that. I think what I was channeling there
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 2: is a very strong sense that there really was, and
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: it was captured by Hillary's deplorables comment. I mean, that
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 2: was a real clarifying moment, I think, for a lot
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: of people. And I don't want to suggest that it
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 2: was representative of every Democrat. Of course I don't. But,
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: you know, there was something to that that was visceral.
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 2: And I feel like that is what a lot of
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 2: Republicans feel. They feel looked down on. And they really do.
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: And they feel looked down on partly because of who
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 2: they are and all those things I listed, the faith
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 2: and the food and whatever. And you see it in
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 2: some of the commentary that people make and I don't know,
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: you'll say, which examples? I mean, I'm just 10 years now,
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 2: you've had Trump.
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 10: Well, no, but I would say, you know, sure, she
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 10: said deplorables. Dumb thing to say. Apologized for it. We've
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 10: now had a decade of Donald Trump saying some of
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 10: the most heinous, vicious things, not just about politicians, but
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 10: about California, about our people, about a place we love
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 10: that you're trying to run. And I appreciate you trying
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 10: to strike this balance.
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 10: Uh, but I don't, but it's not, doesn't seem to
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 10: be as much what you did on. I get why
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 10: you'd be doing it while running to lead California, but,
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 10: but it, for a lot of us, it's not a
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 10: balancing question.
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: It's a moral question. I understand that. But I guess
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 2: I've been, like I said, I've done a lot of
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 2: different things in my career. I left Oxford in 1990,
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 2: 36 years. I actually, you know, added it up because
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 2: when you run for, I'd never run for office before
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: you get three words to describe yourself on the ballot.
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 2: So I thought, okay, what I've done different things. I've,
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 2: taught at Stanford, done a startup, run restaurants, written books,
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 2: been on TV, worked in the government, a bunch of
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 2: different things. So I actually added it up. Most of
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 2: my career has been in business, in the private sector.
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 2: Most of those years, starting and running my own businesses. However,
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 2: interspersed in that 36-year period, I've been in and around
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 2: politics and the media a lot. And I guess what,
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 2: including my first job, my first real job was project
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 2: manager for a construction company. But my first job out
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 2: of college was, I took a gap year and did that,
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 2: but was working at the Conservative Party. I've been around
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 2: a long time in and around politics. And I guess
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 2: I just, I've seen a lot of things that you
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 2: could say are reprehensible. I don't think that anything I've
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 2: seen is uniquely bad. And I think, you know, things just,
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 2: you know, things seem from in the moment to have
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 2: particular kind of you know, significance attached to them. And
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: I think increasingly with everything's amped up in a way
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 2: it wasn't before because of social media, but then things
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 2: move on and you're onto the next thing. I remember like,
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 2: for example, back in the day in Europe, George W.
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 2: Bush was unbelievably unpopular in Europe. Everyone now thinks, oh, Trump,
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 2: and it's so embarrassing because Everyone in Europe thinks we're so,
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 2: you know, you go there and everyone's talking about Trump
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 2: and how could you elect Trump, whatever. That was exactly
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: the same with George W.
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 3: Bush.
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 2: And so I just think that I tend to not get,
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I just try and focus on the
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 2: stuff that you can control and things that are practical. Honestly,
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: that's truly how I see it. So I don't know.
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't, I try not to get amped
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 2: up about stuff. Well, that's all I do.
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 4: Steve Hilton, good talking to you. Thank you for coming in.
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Good luck on
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 2: the campaign trail. Thank you.
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 3: That's our show for today. Thanks to Steve Hilton for
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 3: coming on.
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 5: Field correspondent Tommy Vitor will be back in the feed
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 5: on Sunday with a conversation with Abdul El-Sayed. He was
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 5: in Michigan today. Tommy, obviously Abdul as well, but Tommy
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 5: was in Michigan. And he'll also give us an update
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 5: on how things are feeling on the ground there with
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 5: just two months until Election Day.
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 3: Have a good weekend.
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 4: Bye, everyone.
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 5: Produced by Austin Fisher, Saul Rubin, McKenna Roberts, and Farrah Safari,
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 5: with Reed Cherlin, Elijah Cohn, and Adrian Hill. Our team
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 5: includes Matt DeGroat, Ben Hethcote, Jordan Cantor, Charlotte Landis, David Tolles,
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 5: Mia Kelman, Ryan Young, and Naomi Sengel. Our staff is
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 5: proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.